Burning Question: How Do We Get More Women To Work in the Bike Industry?

Mar 6, 2020
by Sarah Moore  
BC Bike Race 2019
Just a few of the awesome ladies that I work with at Pinkbike at the end of the BC Bike Race in July 2019.


When I tell people that I work for Pinkbike, I often get raised eyebrows. The mountain bike industry has a long history of being an old boys' club and the media side is no exception. Some people assume I work in a frat house. I don't.

While we have a long ways to go as an industry and as a company, I honestly feel we're on the right path. We recently hired Christina Chappetta as our first full-time presenter, who joins me and a bunch of other super badass women here, like Sarah Lukas, Kate Gayton, Paula Moran, Janelle Lucas, Kelly Wiltshire, Melanie Jansen, Brie Forster, Georgia Yardley, Christie Gibbs, and Claire Ryan. More importantly, our opinions are respected and our feedback is valued.

Last year, I asked what we can do to get more women into cycling and James Smurthwaite asked why there aren't more World Cup Downhill teams that sponsor women and we got tons of interesting feedback.

This year, the message for International Women's Day has to do with gender equality in the workforce. As one of a very small number of female journalists in the mountain bike world and someone who has spent her entire career working in the bike industry, I feel a responsibility to share more women's stories, introduce more women to this sport that I love, and to get more women into the bike industry.

So, I reached out to some of the prominent women that currently work in the industry to get their thoughts on how to add to their ranks.







bigquotesThe biggest issue for women in the bike industry is that we're an issue at all. It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management. It shouldn't be hard to find a bike that fits you and feels pretty good with minor tweaks out of the box. It shouldn't be a thing to have to ask to make as much money as men. It shouldn't be hard to find shoes to fit my tiny little feet. But these are all issues and they're real.


I feel super fortunate that I've been able to work may way through the rankings in the industry as a freelancer and marketer, but it hasn't been without a lot of unnecessary BS like unwanted advances, derogatory remarks, and a lot of cards stacked against me. Ultimately, I think we all just want the best people in all of the jobs and the fastest people will win the races, but without the community support in both of those areas, it will be a struggle. I DO believe we are going in the right direction but as an industry we need to continue to lift everyone up.
Lacy Kemp, Communications Manager at Kona Bicycles


bigquotesI think one roadblock facing women in the bike industry is the fact the media presence is still unequal. Granted, we’ve witnessed significant breakthroughs like Veronique Sandler’s movie Vision and the Women’s Freeride event Formation in the last few years, but we’re still far from true equality. Simply look at the number of women in most bike films? On average it’s about two or three. The industry needs to keep pushing to elevate female-led narratives, so women see themselves reflected in the industry. We need to move away from the stereotypical token-female narrative. If there’s anything that Formation taught us is that there’s a pool of women capable riding at an elite level and that there’s an audience craving to see it. I’d like to see more examples of women collaborating, pushing each other, and learning from each other. Topics like sisterhood and motherhood explored even more. That also goes for what's happening behind the lens. How many women do you see on set in film productions? Photographing marketing materials or at biking events? Where are the female DPs, directors, or producers? We need to support female filmakers, photographers, and creatives to showcase broader perspectives in storytelling. The two are connected.

To encourage more women to work in the bike industry start by showing women that they’re valued and belong. Create role models that young girls can aspire to. Highlight actual women within the industry like SRAM women’s event coordinator Sara Jarrell, Crankworx’s communication director Julia Montague, or bike coaches Lindsey Ritcher and Angi Weston. By doing so it shows girls that you don’t just have to be a racer to have a career within mountain biking. Bike companies should also look introspectively and acknowledge the number of women in positions of leadership. It's hard to elevate a group of people if there's no one directly representing them or can actually speak to their perspective.
Katie Lozancich, Teton Gravity Research Staff Writer & Photographer


bigquotesAnd as we have a small team and I’m not shy about sharing my thoughts and opinions, I also don’t want to have it (again, sadly) somehow backfire on me. But I do want to share this, albeit anonymous.

Now the reason I’d like to keep it anonymous is because, I kid you not, 90% of the time I even say the words ‘women or female’ I see the eyes of colleagues rolling to the very back of their heads, and mouths open wide to let out sighs. This is far from encouraging to continue to mention for each and every activation, partnership, athlete, ambassador, event, race, photoshoot, product design whatever it may be: should we perhaps include or use a woman? So when you see the eyes rolling for the umpteenth time, you just start to shut up.

Once, when chasing waterfalls in North Carolina, I walked back to the car with a new friend from a different bike brand. What she said I’ll never forget, and have made a personal mission to other women in the industry: as much I keep getting fed up with my job at times, the position that I am in does allow me to bring our company to women’s focused events, partner with women’s focused and showcase our female athletes. And if I were to go find another job, I might not get replaced with another male or female who cares about continuing this strategy. Never give up.

How can we get more women to work in the industry? Pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much. So when a woman applies for a demo job, and her mechanic skills might not be as good as the guy from the shop with 13 years of wrenching experience, also dare to look at other qualities, and don’t always go for the easy and safe option. Take on that challenge, and be open to what else it might bring.

I have two final words: ROAM FEST. Hands down the best thing that happened to women, (men) and the bike event industry since fanny packs made their comeback.
Anonymous


Photo Clint Trahan
Julia Montague, Crankworx Communications Manager


bigquotesIn my seven years working in the industry, I’ve definitely been in more than a few meetings where it’s felt like the old (male/bro) guard has bulldozed its way through discussions and decision-making. Thankfully, I have a boss who’s very progressive. He believed in me before I fully believed in myself. He’s really pushed me to find my voice in those moments and OWN IT. It’s empowered me to know that I belong, that what I have to say is valuable, and that sometimes I should be the one leading the conversation. What’s the takeaway here? We’re not all blessed with a great boss. But if you’re battling a case of imposter syndrome, dig into your network and find a mentor who can help you break through it.

So…how about a mentorship program for women in the bike industry? Let’s make it happen. I’m in.
Julia Montague, Crankworx Communications Manager


bigquotesFrom what I see, working as the Executive Director for the Pemberton Off Road Cycling Association, women in our community are creating a new mountain bike culture, or an evolved one. Membership in PORCA for the past 3 years has been 51% female. I think that is rare for a mountain bike association, I wish it wasn’t. I attest the equity in membership as a direct response to PORCA providing a welcoming environment, fuelled by inclusiveness and driven by a desire to be connected to community.

I think given the opportunity to create a new paradigm, women in my community have done just that. Almost 75% of PORCA’s Board and Committee Members are women and there have been more women than men as Directors since PORCA’s inception in 2016. It’s not to say that women are just doing it by themselves, the men in Pemberton are very supportive and proud of how kick ass our women’s riding community is. And it’s not just a gender specific problem within the mountain bike industry, although it’s easiest to see. We can all do a better job creating a more accessible mountain bike community, whether that be from a diversity or affordability point of view.
Bree Thorlakson, Executive Director, Pemberton Off-Road Cycling Association


bigquotesAs a woman who joined the industry early on in her career, it became obvious very quickly that I was outnumbered in a big way. This can be intimidating for many women and may interfere with their desire to break the mold and choose a career in cycling. Since I began in 2014, I’ve seen more women out riding and taking positions within this industry, and I believe with passionate women in these positions we’re already making a change by proving we can not only play with, but compete with the boys. By showcasing our knowledge and abilities, I hope we are empowering and guiding future generations of women to see themselves not as outcasts or minorities in the industry, but as equal and capable individuals with a lot to give.Megan Duehring, Bike Marketing/Event Specialist at Shimano


Sarah Leishman, photo by Robin O'Neill


bigquotesThe cycling industry has essentially remained in a bubble. This week’s vitriolic comments on Pinkbike prove that many folks remain resistant to the idea of a truly equal landscape for everyone participating, competing and working in our sport. Inclusion, early introduction to cycling, and having open conversations about the imbalances that exist to make things better for the future: these are easy places for all of us to start. We need to continue to have an open dialogue about gender equality in our industry if we ever want to evolve. I worked with the group of people at SRAM to put out the message of commitments made for International Women’s Day this past Monday. The comments that resulted from the coverage here on Pinkbike are proof of why we need to commit ourselves to a better way forward. How can cycling evolve if it’s stuck in an echo chamber that only speaks to 50.4% of the world’s population? This isn’t preaching or virtue signaling: it’s doing business in the modern age, regardless of if it hurts the feelings of trolls out there.

I have been lucky to touch the bike industry in different ways over the years. When I was racing a handful of years ago, I was added to the first ever all-women’s EWS team with SRAM | RockShox and Juliana, which was a unique program at the time. It showed that prospects for female athletes in the sport were growing. Since then, I see more women being signed with real contracts as professional athletes than ever before, but there’s still a road ahead. A lot of the challenge in a sport like mountain biking is that the base of talent at the grassroots level isn’t there to replace our elite athletes yet. This is an area of opportunity – there are examples in snowboarding and skiing that show early investment in getting kids into the sport have impacted the numbers of female participation in the long term. This could affect our numbers in the workforce as well – elite athletes inspire future mountain bikers, and mountain bikers make up a lot of our workforce.

It would be amiss not to acknowledge that women shooting for senior positions in the industry have to work harder and be willing to do more to be noticed for our efforts, but I’m not going to waste time complaining about it. Women and men who are willing to put in the time and the effort to explore diverse ways of leading and who are willing to improve upon the status quo will pave the way for equality for future generations in this business.
Sarah Leishman, Global MTB Communications Manager, SRAM


Katie Zaffke Elayna Caldwell Kelli Emmett
Three of the women behind Santa Cruz Bicycles / Juliana Bicycles - Katie Zaffke, Elayna Caldwell and Kelli Emmett.


bigquotesFor Juliana Bicycles, every day is International Women’s Day. We use all 365 days of the year to promote, support and bring awareness to women’s cycling.

At Juliana/Santa Cruz Bicycles, our workforce is approximately 21% women.

How do we get more women in? Well, for one, we need them to apply for job openings across engineering, sales, marketing, demand planning, production, etc.. The complicated reality is that if they don't apply, we can't hire them. We recognize that there are various reasons women don't apply for jobs in the bike industry at the same rate as men. This means that as a whole, we also need to encourage more diversity in our applications, recruit outside of our communities, and continue the systemic changes that make everyone feel like there's a seat at the table for them in the bike industry. In the interview Pinkbike ran earlier this week, Ken Lousberg, CEO of SRAM, spoke to these points and offered great ideas as they apply to hiring for STEM positions.

One tip for women is to nurture your relationships, both with women and men. There is a lot to be learned from friends and colleagues. Find allies who are smarter than you and you will learn a lot -- a really smart woman I met said to spend 10% of your time on your network, and I don’t mean social media. Opportunities arise in unexpected places. Don't be afraid to say yes to those opportunities, but don't be afraid to say no either.

Many people have done a good deal of work to get more women into the bike industry. There are great programs that are producing results, such as the UBI scholarship program sponsored by QBP and SRAM. There are industry gatherings of women at bike events with roundtables to gather ideas and help them see a path to elevated positions. On the riding side, SRAM's women's program helps get women into the cycling pipeline both as riders and coaches.

We all need to work on getting more women and girls into cycling, from bike companies and media to advocacy groups. We need to show women in our content and advertising. We need to keep supporting women’s events and race teams. We need to make sure women aren't just an afterthought. Women are half of the population. We can all work together. After all, a rising tide raises all ships. Or bikes in this case.
Elayna Caldwell, Juliana Bicycles General Manager


Rachael de Visser, Product Manager at Norco Bicycles


bigquotesI’ve been in the industry for just over a decade, from positions on the advocacy side, marketing, and product design at Norco. Years ago I was asked on an almost weekly basis ‘if I rode’ when I’d meet new people in a professional capacity. It drove me crazy. Now as time has gone on, I don’t get asked as much, or see the same surprise when people look at my business card and learn that, ‘yes, I’m a product manager too. Not ‘just’ a sales girl.’ Maybe that change is from how I hold myself, but I believe it is because it is becoming more common to see women in high power and technical-driven positions all over the industry. It is being normalized, thanks to companies like SRAM and RockShox.

How do we get even more awesome women and people of diversity working in the cycling industry? I think its really complex, but also really simple. Apply for jobs!

I think the longer I work in the ‘biz and meet more people all over the world, you realize that everyone comes in with different backgrounds and strengths, but ultimately we’re all here because we’re passionate about riding. To get more women working in the industry - especially in product design and management where you can really have an impact - I think you need to put yourself out there and apply for jobs you might not be 100% sure you’re qualified for. Work in a bike shop, in sales or field marketing, do whatever you can do get your foot in the door and get experience under your belt. And to those who are hiring and expanding your teams, think outside the box when you’re interviewing candidates: look for different and new skillsets other than the sea of flat brimmed, flannel-clad bros. It will diversity your team and bring new opinions - you’ll be stronger for it.
Rachael de Visser, Product Manager at Norco Bicycles


Mike Thomas photo Kelli Emmett


bigquotesI've been the bike industry for 20 years and seen some big changes and growth. We are seeing more women than ever enter into the industry. Do I think we are equal? No, there is definitely more room for growth in upper-level management. I believe in order to continue down our current trajectory, women need to work together alongside our male counterparts. This is not an us and against them situation and it's about finding ways to bring awareness to everyone and willingness to work together. Those inside the industry need to invite women to apply for available jobs and give opportunities for additional education.

It takes people in upper management to strongly advocate and elevate qualified women. It takes companies like Santa Cruz/Juliana to take the initiative to hire more women, offer equal pay, and create policies around not just maternity leave but paternity leave as well.
Kelli Emmett, Juliana Bicycles Brand Manager


Angi Weston, photo by Skye Schillhammer


bigquotesThe challenges women face in the bike industry are so complex and multifaceted that it's hard to narrow down a solution that would cover all the layers. However, when I reflect on my 15 year career in the bike industry, one of the most important components to helping me through has been rooted in mentorship - both in having good mentors and in having to redirect my career due to a lack of support and mentors.

When I got my first job at a local bike shop I had an incredible mentor who took me under her wing and taught me all about retail, merchandising, ordering, interacting with sales reps, customer service, mechanics... All of it.

As my career moved into the wholesale side of the industry as a sales rep for a bike company, I had co-workers who took the time to help me navigate the challenges of managing a sales territory and traveling alone.

When the time came to grow my side-hustle (mountain bike skills coaching) into a full-time career I looked to the other professional coaches I saw doing this and turned to many of them for insights and examples. I sought out sponsors who showed me they valued my mission and were willing to support my efforts (special shout out to SRAM, RockShox, & Transition Bikes).

As a business owner, I'm now positioned to be a mentor for all sorts of riders looking to expand their careers and develop themselves as coaches and riders. Thanks to the support I receive and the team I have, we are able to run a junior development team and mentor young riders. We show our junior team that the bike industry is a place that women have rad careers like being a skills coach, a freeride athlete, professional racer, shop mechanic, sales rep, product manager, or engineer. There are so many paths that are possible for women in our industry and trails are being blazed left and right.

If you find yourself in a position to mentor an eager study, do it. If you already do your part to bring up others, thank you.

If you find yourself sitting back expecting everyone to face struggles and injustices like you "had to" in order to get ahead, I challenge you to check yourself and the biases you carry and work to evolve so that you aren't a glass ceiling for the next person looking to come up.

To anyone reading this who wants to get into the industry or move up within their current role but feel like they don't have the support they need... Hit me up! Seriously, send me your pitches, resumes, cover letters, etc... and I will do my best to give you advice, insights, and support. Now by no means am I claiming to have all the answers, but I do have an incredible network of peers and mentors that I can turn to for help.
Angi Weston, Radical Roots MTB Coaching


Photo by Robin O Neill
Brook Hopper, Liv Global Marketing Manager, at the Pique 29 launch event in Kingdom Trails, Vermont. Photo by Robin O'Neill.


bigquotesIn my opinion, challenges facing women in our industry are vast and systemic, and require a bigger conversation about what equity looks like for women within the cycling industry. There is a lot of talk about equality, but equality only aims to promote fairness, and it will only work if everyone starts from the same place. Looking historically at the lack of support and representation of women and especially of people of color in the bike industry, it begs the question, is equal enough?

I am fortunate that I work for Liv, a brand that was founded by a woman and is led by women today. Instead of having to determine what percentage of a finite-amount of resources should be allocated to supporting women vs. men’s programs, we get to dedicate 100% of our time, energy, and resources to support women in cycling. These investments show up in many different ways, and we’re excited that in 2020:

* Liv has grown our Liv Racing roster to 17 riders, with all 14 returning from last year. We also have two women employed full-time on the road to support this program as our team mechanic and team manager.
* Liv is the Official Women’s Partner of the Enduro World Series, and has posted the championship’s only all-female line-up.
* Liv entered the second year supporting our WorldTour team CCC-Liv, featuring 15 of the world’s most promising female road cyclists, including four new riders for this year.
* Liv will continue our investment in successful women’s-only activations at global cycling events such as our Liv A-Line Women’s Only Session at Crankworx Whistler, and new additions including women’s-only rides at every stop of the Enduro World Series, and increased on-site activation as a Silver-level sponsor of the Sea Otter Classic.
* Liv has expanded our partnership with Ladies AllRide to be global in scope, better enabling them to grow the community of women mountain bikers around the world.
* Each year, our global team of female designers, engineers, athletes, and marketers bring our bikes and gear to life, and we also host women’s-only media launches for editors from around the world that include female guides, mechanics, photographers and even swag from women-owned businesses.

But that’s certainly not enough, and we know that we can all do better. Last year we co-hosted a dinner for women at Crankworx Whistler, and we realized that creating space for women in the cycling industry is rarely done, but desperately needed. Armed with a growing body of evidence to inform us, a group of us also met in December as part of the Women’s Off-Road Cycling Congress, and we agreed that greater collaboration and working together will be what’s critical to successfully growing our reach to new audiences.

And while I know there are many men out there advocating for women and greater inclusivity (thank you!) perhaps it’s time we try a new approach, because if we don’t, our industry will become more irrelevant and stale to those we need most, and that won’t serve any of us.
Brook Hopper, Liv Global Marketing Manager


Photo Credit amp Permission from SRAM - Sara Jarrell and Leigh Donovan lead a bike clinic while at Whistler. Jarrell will be joining Roam Bike Fest to lead multi-day clinics on bike tuning suspension brake setup and more.
Sara Jarrell giving a clinic at Crankworx Whistler.


bigquotesI repetitively receive the question, “What is in this for me?” after every presentation, post, or media article that is published about the work that the SRAM Women’s Program is doing. On a very basic level, getting more women on bikes and into cycling grows the industry and the overall revenue possibilities for all companies, businesses, and organizations involved. As a consumer, no matter your gender, race, choosen cycling discipline, or level of ability this means access to more innovative products because companies have more resources to create and market products to you.

On a more personal level, and in response to the continual backlash against women’s programs and initiatives in the industry, this is my question back to all consumers, no matter their gender, race, choosen cycling discipline, or level of ability:

Why the opposition to more opportunities for people to ride bikes? Specific to women’s program, why wouldn’t you want your mom, sister, girlfriend, wife, partner and/or daughter to have an opportunity to ride a bike?

The question as to whether we absolutely need specific programs for people who identify as female is a good question. We need diverse programs for men, women, coed, and everything in-between. I think that many times when a majority audience hears about programming that is focused on a group that they don’t immediately identify with, they feel threatened.

I get it.

I have felt threatened my entire career by limited opportunities for me to do the things that I am passionate about – being a bicycle mechanic and eventually landing a career in the cycling industry – presented a very slim chance of manifesting for a woman in the bicycle industry. I knew if I wanted my dreams to come true I would have to work harder, perform better, and struggle to find ways to be recognized for the same work as my male counterparts. Would I trade my struggles and successes that have brought me to this point in my career? No. Will I stop being a supporter of creating change in an industry that desperately needs it? Hell no! How do I think the women (and men) in the industry could come together to get more women in the bike industry? We can all start by being supportive of each other and not looking at the addition of women or other marginalized groups in the workplace as a threat. WE ARE A TEAM. If we don’t support each other and celebrate each other’s successes and help each other through our struggles, then we all are missing the point.
Sara Jarrell, SRAM Women's Program Coordinator


bigquotesThe most important focus in my mind is how we evolve the conversation and ensure that the women and people we depict in our marketing are relatable and the stories we tell are attainable. To evolve the conversation, I think we have to look at how we are not only finding ways to include women but other underrepresented communities as well - people of color, LGBTQ. We are falling short if we aren’t including everyone who is underrepresented. By all of us working together and fighting for each other, we create more space and opportunity for everyone.Janette Sherman, TRUE Communications


bigquotesI have been running programs reliant on sponsorship dollars and have worked closely with over 20 brands in the bike industry since 2003. Up until recently, I didn't know many women who were in a position to make budget decisions. I asked for funding to start a women's program for years with no luck. I also tried to convince marketing managers I would be a great ambassador for the sport. Without championship titles or accolades, I wanted companies to believe in the power of a passionate mountain biker openly addressing the emotional component of mountain biking to help attract more women to the sport. Nobody seemed to understand my vision.

At the end of 2014 a female marketing manager at Liv cycling understood and even shared my vision, so in 2015 Liv became title sponsor of our Ladies AllRide Mountain Bike Skills Camps. This was around the time SRAM had hired a female marketing director and they stepped up as presenting sponsor. Suddenly my dreams were coming true and I believe some of it had to do with women in leadership roles understanding and believing in my mission to make mountain biking less intimidating for women.

I think Liv in particular has provided a space where women feel a little more welcomed into a male-dominated sport. I know at our camps when women see other women excel at something there is a "if she can do it, I can do it" mentality that many women might not feel with men. I understand it's up to us as individuals to go after what we want in life, but I think a challenge for women getting into the bike industry was that they simply weren't seeing many other women working at companies, which may have been a deterrent for them believing they could get jobs there. With that said, I do see more and more bike companies hiring women in management roles and supporting women's programs. I also have to say we currently work with many awesome decision-making men in the industry who believe in our mission and fully support us. I think the solution is upon us because I'm seeing more companies make the effort to help women feel welcomed into the sport.
Lindsey Richter, Ladies AllRide Coaching


bigquotesThis was a topic of conversation at the Women's Off-Road Cycling Congress in 2019. Female-identifying professionals already in the industry will immediately identify the importance of networking amongst peers to maintain and grow opportunities. This is a difficult conversation, because there are different layers of challenge for women in the industry, beginning with the unavoidable topic of "bro culture".

It sounds trite, but it comes up: do we, as an industry, suspend our assumptions and really listen to women about their experiences? The reality is, if we respond to the concerns of "women" - support for families, respect for diversity, sustainable compensation, work/life balance - we actually respond to the concerns of the entire industry's workforce. My honest opinion is that women are in a unique position to influence overall positive change for the cycling industry, and a lot of amazing women are already doing so at a lot of companies and organizations.
Elorie Slater, Marketing Manager at Pivot Cycles


Hailey Elise enjoying the loose char grilled forest floor. With devastation brings new life and this forest in Cache Creek is doing just that.
Hailey Elise


bigquotesI think the challenges women face are the same ones that men face when it comes to entering an industry. Talent, character, etc., all come into consideration. However, I think why we don't see as many women in the mountain bike industry and the action sports industry as a whole is around awareness and interest. If we showcase that it is possible to enter this industry and be successful, then of course more women will follow suit.

I would like to challenge industry members, brands, and thought leaders to stop saying they are "trying" to demonstrate equal representation and involve more women by actually doing work to make this happen. This means refraining from the taking the easy route and instead, reaching out to women with expertise in a specific area (photography, clinics, coaching, management, etc.) to find out about other women with developing skill sets, creating environments that foster inclusivity, and making an effort to build relationships with both sexes, not just hiring the homies.
Hailey Elise, Rider & Photographer



454 Comments

  • 377 81
 EVERYTHING has to equal or there are forces of inequality as the cause. God forbid there are just different levels of interest between the sexes.
  • 98 225
flag kleinblake (Mar 6, 2020 at 10:19) (Below Threshold)
 Maybe attitudes like this explain the difference in interest
  • 44 3
 To be honest, I think you have a valid point. One thing is for certain, the prevalence of women is steadily increasing year after year.
Ultimately, getting more women working in the industry is an inevitability, however to ask whether or not we will see an equal ratio is truly defined by each individual's interest. I feel (and correct me if I'm wrong) men in general gravitate towards adrenalin sports, more so than women. The burning undertone here comes down to equality. Ultimately equality is how we should in theory see each individual... human, not defined by gender. We are are equal as we are all good at something, but we are not all good at everything. So the funny but true answer is this. True equality does not exist.
To ask if a woman can do what a man can do, really comes down to can a man do what another man can do. Competition in sport is an example of this, and until gender is questioned, equality is not questioned. Yet we have mens categories and womens catagorys.
Truth is I think the industry has done a damn fine job in creating inclusion for all. Dating back to the early 2000s where Michelle Dumaresq competed in womens world cup downhill.
Women in mountainbiking today are still pioneers of the sport, and sooner or later the sport we love will be incorporated into the lives of every race, ethnicity, race, creed, and religion. Mountainbiking is home to some of the most real and genuine people I've ever met.
So to get to my long drawn out response. As long as everybody keeps their passion for the sport, and spread that passion to others, we will see more and more women in sport.
  • 122 19
 Exactly! It’s not like there are stories of exclusion. The fashion industry doesn’t question why there are fewer men employed.
  • 87 8
 @kleinblake: Huh? My attitude is live an let live, not "How do we manipulate forces to create the result we believe we NEED to have." You can continue to insinuate from there.
  • 15 55
flag Sardine (Mar 6, 2020 at 10:27) (Below Threshold)
 @tuskenraider: This ain't about you bro.

There are absolutely different levels of interest between the sexes. That don't mean women who do like MTB (or whatever) can't try and get their friends involved.
  • 40 11
 @Sardine: No shit, bra. Let the chips fall where they may and accept the results.
  • 44 36
 @tuskenraider: You're pushing back on bringing more women into the industry like it's somehow going to hurt everyone. It's inconsequential at worst and f*cking awesome at best so why the sour grapes? No one's asking you to lift a finger unless you think welcoming women into this sport and treating them with respect will be difficult.
  • 40 23
 The largest issue with @sarahmoore's writing here is she paints mountain bikers and men with a VERY broad brush. It's quite gross when you think about her underlying presuppositions in "having" to write this article; mountain biking is about misogyny.
  • 28 13
 A big part of the issue is that girls get dissuaded from doing the rowdy stuff because "that's for boys and it's unladylike". And boys get dissuaded from doing the artsy fartsy sparkly stuff because "that's for girls and will make you a sissy". So if you grow up being told "oh that's not for you", then you're gonna stay away.

Kids these days are lucky because they're being allowed to explore more hobbies without being told they shouldn't be pursuing whatever they're into because they're the wrong gender or don't fit the stereotype. In due time it'll balance out to everyone doing anything they want without the arm chair quarter backs of the internet getting butthurt because girls wanna ride bikes too.
  • 32 50
flag stlbrk (Mar 6, 2020 at 10:45) (Below Threshold)
 @jomacba: I ride with a few girls. It's all kool. But, it seems like the more women start running things (not just in biking), the more political things get. Always complaining. The natural easy-going fun is lost. Gotta always be on guard
  • 1 3
 @Sardine: that comment was literally about him.
  • 1 2
 @jcklondon: maybe she just wants more chicks to hang out with.
  • 39 1
 Totally agree with this. Equal outcome is not equality, equal opportunity is equality.
  • 12 4
 @ridebikesyall: My girlfriend has told me the same thing. She explained that a lot of young women are discouraged from taking risks and possibly getting hurt and so they're turned away from sports like MTB. Today she races local Cat 1 XC and tells me it still affects her riding sometimes.
  • 39 4
 @fullfacemike: I'm pushing back, only in discussion mind you, on the idea that gender equality needs to exist in the MTB community, as stated in the article. I don't care if Pat designed my bike, Gene sold me my sealant, or Shiwana designed my shorts, I'll buy what I like regardless. The rest of you concerned with 50/50 numbers can let me know when we reached Nirvana. Peace.
  • 9 4
 @chunter: Accurate. Fashion industry is overwhelmingly women vs men. Female models get paid exponentially more than men in the fashion industry.
  • 9 14
flag fullfacemike (Mar 6, 2020 at 11:13) (Below Threshold)
 @tuskenraider: Why push back at all? If you were for it you'd be for it, if you were indifferent you'd be indifferent, but if you were against it... well you'd make comments like that.
  • 12 4
 @savagelake: @savagelake: If that's true then it's probably because there's a secret agreement among men to dissuade women from participating in mountain biking sport and industry.

I mean the numbers don't lie... Right?

We should all just look at the numbers and then infer why things are that way. So what if we apply a motive when there isn't one; that motive is unconscious! Guilty, guilty guilty! Then use your position in media to sculpt a narrative around this lie and post it as widely as possible. What could go wrong? I am sure it won't deepen any divides. Judging by the comments it's going great. (For a troll who wants to generate clicks anyways)
  • 10 3
 @pinkbike can we have demographic breakdown stats to better inform us before we make comments on this kind of article please?
How many members are male/female? What age ranges do they fall into? Do the viewing habits vary depending on the content of articles? Etc...
I don't want to call this article a BS attempt to talk about a nonexistent problem, so I would like to be educated first.
For example, how do articles about male and female racers stack up in terms of page views?
  • 91 14
 We need more white people in rap music...
  • 48 10
 @WAKIdesigns: more short people in the NBA please, and more cows in equestrian events.
While we’re at it, I’m bored of eating canned tuna. Can I have some canned dolphin please @Tesco
  • 12 0
 @fullfacemike: tell her she is a f*cking bad ass and that she should use that doubt as fuel for the fire to ride even harder. I was lucky growing up because I was never told not to do something just because I was a girl, but I cannot tell you how many women I've coached over the years that are riddled with self doubt because they don't think they can do something because "it's for the boys". I'm always stoked when they break through and realize that they too can learn how to boost off a jump or even just get over an obstacle because it changes their perception of their own capabilities as human beings. Everyone has to learn how to walk before they can run, and mountain biking is no different.
  • 5 6
 @jaame: if we can get hockey rules in football when it comes to fouls it would get 99% less g...
  • 1 11
flag jaame (Mar 6, 2020 at 13:38) (Below Threshold)
 @ridebikesyall: not being funny but like, if you've got arms and legs you can go off a jump. Anyone who's seen a physiology diagram should understand that everyone has bones and muscles. Take the skin off and there's not much difference between males and females
  • 12 3
 @jaame: except the whole boobs and genitals thing...
  • 12 1
 @jaame: yeah, but a lot of women get conditioned to believe they can’t do something because of their gender and it takes a lot to overcome that. Sometimes it takes seeing other women hitting the big jumps or working as a mechanic in a bike shop to realize that it’s possible.
  • 14 1
 @savagelake: if my boobs ever get in the way of me accomplishing something on my bike, I’ll let you know.
  • 1 6
flag jaame (Mar 6, 2020 at 14:07) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah I mean that diagram that shows all the muscles and bones. You can usually see them on the walls in hospitals and gyms. Everyone has the same bones and same muscles is my point. Only the sizes vary.
  • 6 3
 @ridebikesyall: not sure how one could take my comment pointing out that skin is not the only diff between men and women, but it appears u made it happen.
  • 1 1
 *as an insult. whoopsies.
  • 3 1
 @savagelake: nah, didn’t take it as an insult. All in good jest Smile
  • 6 2
 @jaame: I really hope you have a few years before you have to engage with adults in the workplace.
  • 3 2
 @Spittingcat: Oh right. Why is that?
  • 11 4
 @fullfacemike: @ridebikesyall: You're both creating straw men arguments, I'm not upset about women doing anything they'd like to do. We live in an amazing time where mostly equal opportunities exist, but this concept is being conflated with equal outcomes; which is pure evil masquerading as morality or virtue. To control people to achieve a desired outcome is to strip them of their most precious and inalienable right of agency.

To summarize quickly: Women choosing to ride bikes/work in the industry, and there being less unequal boundaries for this to occur naturally, is fantastic!! My wife rides, I hope my daughter chooses to share in the joy of riding too. And, forcing people to be equal is evil.

I'll add as well that unethical behavior of any kind toward any group is not ok, I'm sorry many of these women had to deal with jerks in their cycling careers. And, I worry too that identity is preceding accuracy; I've been treated $hitty by male and female colleagues and my sex wasn't my first thought as to why it happened.
  • 4 1
 @wasea04: I appreciate and agree with most of your comment. Though I will say, it's a slippery slope to say that identity is preceding agency, especially when men are straight up saying they'd rather have a male tech look at their bike, which happens an alarmingly frequent amount. That is exactly the point though, that the majority of men do not experience a bias based on their gender to the extent that women do, so it can be hard for men to relate. But as you said, removing barriers and encouraging/supporting women is the best course of action.
  • 6 4
 @wasea04: Look, if being reminded that we can all play our part to further equality makes you feel like you're being forced to do something against your will then you may want to examine that. And to suggest that even a misguided attempt at furthering equality would be "pure evil" is nothing short of ludicrous. Why is it that when the topic of equality comes up so many people make such an effort to portray taking an active role in correcting inequality as bad, possibly worse than the inequality itself?
  • 12 2
 @fullfacemike: Equality of opportunity you could argue is a human right, equality of outcome is not.
  • 3 3
 The point is there's 50% of the population not riding bikes. If they get the fairer half into bikes by starting at the business end ultimately they can sell 50% more shit. Everybody gets paid!!!
  • 2 3
 @WAKIdesigns: id feel more included if there were. Maybe a white dude will convince me to like it too.
Maybe a black dude will convince me not to hate country music.
Maybe Im just not interested and thats all there is to it.
  • 3 6
 @jaame: You're not very smart. I can tell.
  • 13 2
 @fullfacemike: Ask USSR and China about "misguided attempts" at furthering equality. 100 million dead people want to know more!!!'

Look, I want what these women want, what it appears you want, what decent people everywhere want; equality and fairness. My caution is that in trying to artificially FORCE equality rather than removing barriers to choice, you end up with at best gross inequities and at worst mass scale destruction. What is hard to understand about promoting choice?
  • 5 7
 @wasea04: Wow, and you accused me of making straw man arguments. No one is forcing you to do anything; they're asking you to help or at the very least not impede efforts to promote equality. It's a pretty low bar to be honest, it shouldn't be this difficult.
  • 21 7
 What a load of bollocks!
I doubt there are any fathers in the last 20 years who have told their daughters they can’t do something “because it’s for boys”. Any girl who has wanted to do something has done it. Maybe not in Afghanistan or Bahrain, but in western developed countries.
We already have equality as far as I’m concerned.

The irritating thing about this kind of article in my opinion, is that there seems to be the idea being peddled that we must achieve 50:50 male to female participation, employment, etc, in a particular industry or sport. Why? Who came up with this figure and who decided it was a fact that we must all strive to achieve and uphold? Females can go to a bike shop and buy a bike just like males can. Females can enter races if they want. Anyone can do anything. The barriers to entry are the same for anyone. This is supposed to be an equal world in which everyone is treated the same, so why are we even talking about this as if it’s a problem? Free choice. If girls aren’t in the sport, it’s because they don’t want to be - not because of some cloak and dagger sexism.

Grow up.
  • 8 16
flag fullfacemike (Mar 7, 2020 at 0:38) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: You would have to be worryingly disconnected from reality to believe that even half of what you've just said is true.
  • 10 10
 Well, that was enlightening.
Responses to some selected quotes (Entirely satirical):
It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management.
—Lacy Kemp, Communications Manager at Kona Bicycles
Lacy Kemp showing she didn't get where she is by working hard.

Now the reason I’d like to keep it anonymous is because, I kid you not, 90% of the time I even say the words ‘women or female’ I see the eyes of colleagues rolling to the very back of their heads, and mouths open wide to let out sighs.
—Anonymous
Feminism is the new shoes.

Pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much.
—Anonymous
Just don't forget to pay me, you're new (inexperienced, lower-skilled) hire the same wage as the rest of the people 'doing the same job'.

And to those who are hiring and expanding your teams, think outside the box when you’re interviewing candidates: look for different and new skillsets other than the sea of flat brimmed, flannel-clad bros.
—Rachael de Visser, Product Manager at Norco Bicycles
Not everyone has the skills to pull off a flat-brimmed cap, especiallly when they're clad in flannel.

If you find yourself sitting back expecting everyone to face struggles and injustices like you "had to" in order to get ahead, I challenge you to check yourself and the biases you carry and work to evolve so that you aren't a glass ceiling for the next person looking to come up.
—Angi Weston, Radical Roots MTB Coaching
If you find yourself complaining incessantly, expecting everyone to simply hand you what you want in order to get ahead, I challenge you to check yourself and the biases you carry and work to evolve so that you aren't a burden to the next person looking to come up.

In my opinion, challenges facing women in our industry are vast and systemic
There is a lot of talk about equality, but equality only aims to promote fairness
Looking historically at the lack of support and representation of women and especially of people of color in the bike industry, it begs the question, is equal enough?
—Brook Hopper, Liv Global Marketing Manager
Socialism is good. Socialism says all people are equal. But under socialism some people get *more* equal. So some people getting more is good. Ergo, capitalism is good.

I would like to challenge industry members, brands, and thought leaders to stop saying they are "trying" to demonstrate equal representation and involve more women by actually doing work to make this happen.
—Hailey Elise, Rider & Photographer
Lacy Kemp says you shouldn't have to work hard. But if you get them to actually do the work then I guess you can have her job :-)

I knew if I wanted my dreams to come true I would have to work harder, perform better, and struggle to find ways to be recognized for the same work as my male counterparts.
—Sara Jarrell, SRAM Women's Program Coordinator
The awkward moment you realise you want recognition just for doing the same work as everyone else...
  • 2 3
 @xxaw89xx: Freedom should be celebrated. I applaud men who have the courage to identify as women or trans LGBTQ+ individuals forging ahead in the bike industry. All this free choice to be and do what you want is empowering.

Don't you dare choose who you want to work on your bike though! That's beyond the pail!
  • 5 6
 @jaame: I have a go at it from another direction, there are many jobs where I’d rather prefer women to do them, and guess Fecking what, these are jobs done mostly by women. Sexual fantasies aside, speaking out of pure practicality due to chemical composition of female brain, I much prefer woman nurse, medicine Doctor, masseur, kinder garden teacher, project manager, human resources manager and many more.
  • 3 1
 @tuskenraider so true. Notice how there is absolutely no push to get more men in traditionally female jobs?
  • 4 4
 @WAKIdesigns: I lost a good friend one time because I chose to not put my daughter in his class in favour of his opposite number, who was a woman (who actually I disliked immensely on a personal level). He couldn't understand why I would choose her over him, and I did purely because she was a woman. Sexist, wasn't it? But yeah, I wouldn't want a three year old kid in a man's class as a generalisation. Much like I wouldn't want my son in a woman's class when he's a wanker 15 year old dicking around with all his wanker mates. Boys like that need a firm hand to keep them under control. I'm not saying there is no female teacher who could do that but I think on average, men are probably better at controlling adolescent boys than women are. That probably won't be a popular belief with some people but there you go.
All I can say is, celebrate diversity. It takes all sorts, there is no singular right or wrong belief. It's a scale of alternative truths.
  • 3 2
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: I never read koreannails.com or makeup weekly. I wonder if their forums are full of comments from poor little men feeling sorry for themselves about not having enough covers compared to women. "It's not fair. 96% of page views on this website are from women, but I insist we aim for 50:50 coverage. Otjerwise it's sexist."

"I was working on the nail bar all last week and you would not believe this. A woman walked in, took one look at me, and then chose Si-Hyun next to me to do her nails! I have never felt so insulted and racially violated in all my life! The very idea that a Korean woman would be better at doing Korean nails than me, a white man, is deeply insulting. Not to mention sexist and racist. I'm going to lobby the government to force patrons to accept a nail treatment from any artist they are assigned to, regardless of race or gender. Free choice allows discrimination, and this has to stop God damnit."
  • 5 0
 The fact that this thread exists disappoints me. We can all do better.
  • 3 3
 @fullfacemike: My favorite mountain bike racers from first to 4th are: 1. Tahnee Seagrave; 2. Rachel Atherton; 3. Jolanda Neff; 4. Bernard Kerr. Not just because they are outstanding racers, but also for their attitude.

Those girls simply don't have an outwardly social justice agenda. They're not particularly cover girl beautiful... But, they are hot! And, Bernard... His mom did an incredible amount to instill, enable, and nurture his talent. Women are awesome. But that anger infused pic in the above story where all those women are gathered in the tent looks like something from Mad Max. Jeez girls!! gel... smile... ride... hang... be kool... easy on the tats... don't suck all the fun out of everything

There are many women in the industry... according to demand. When they excel, women are rewarded. But, when they soap-box... everyone RUNS!!!! Women already have superior rights than men. It is a liability to hire women from their own doing! And, there is nothing so beautiful and rewarding as when babies are born. Women are so beautiful... why do so many of them want to be ugly?

Mountain biking and surfing have so many kool people. It's a surfer dude energy kinda thing. Accepting, light hearted, relaxed, supportive, encouraging, life-is-good, "wow dude"... kowabunga! Take a lesson from Carissa Moore and Rachel Atherton. Don't kill the vibe
  • 8 0
 @wasea04: you say: "I've been treated $hitty by male and female colleagues and my sex wasn't my first thought as to why it happened."

Same is true for me, but I'm a guy, and work in fields where guys tend to be the statistical norm. And I have witnessed a number of female colleagues get talked over in meetings, excluded from group decisions, passed over for opportunities they were clearly qualified for, and so forth. Ask women you know and respect to share their stories with you, you might be surprised.
  • 6 1
 @stlbrk: The tendency to expect women to always be “smiling girls”, even when concentrating on delivering or taking in a talk or instructions, is part of the problem.
  • 3 2
 @Spittingcat: with all due respect, if you knew anything about public relations you would know that tendency to expect people to smile knows no gender or racial boundaries. There is however a difference between Not smiling looking hostile... think Sam Hill VS triggasaurus or Rachel (she doesn’t come out too friendly to me but I am
Fine with her) Vs her brother Dan (who I find grotesque). I am not saying everyone should be all smiles like Greg Minnaar or Pom Pon, but some people are simply offputting. And that gets you nowhere as far as a smile no matter what you have in your underpants.
  • 3 1
 @wasea04: C'mon man you're willfully ignoring so much with this type of blanket statement.
  • 3 1
 @g-42: I have know and known a lot of successful females in my life. The successful ones are very qualified, go-getters, very assertive, and work very hard. The ones that are not getting ahead are not very qualified or are not assertive and timid.

I know people who are hiring managers and they have told me that when they are fielding resumes for a position, so many women didn't have the qualifications, experience, that many of the men have. So, the men get hired at a higher rate because they are the most qualified for the position.

Businesses are not going to not hire women or advance them that could help their business and are excellent candidates just because they are women. That is just dumb business sense.
  • 2 1
 @chunter: don't use logic!
  • 4 0
 @jaame: As a male teacher this offends me as I teach little 3-4year old kids both girls and boys with no problems at all! Boys and girls are vastly different and so you play with them and teach them respectfully!
If so, there is absolutely no difference in people other than gender!
Female doesn't equal better teacher for little kids!
I meet many female teachers who are for a lack of a better word, more bitchy to the kids rather than teaching!
However on the flip side, I absolutely refuse to help little kids with the toilet, there is a stigmatism that is oddly present and in so, my wife helps me with that part of teaching little kids!
I once had a little girl who was 5 or 6, piss right where she was sitting, I cleaned her up and got some of my sons clothes so she wasn't naked, I then put all her dirty clothes in a bag and handed them to the mother explaining what happened. Who knows why or what the mother was thinking but that student quit that day never coming back! WHY? Because I'm a male!!!
So see, it works both ways people! hahahahahahhaha
Now lets go ride bikes!
  • 1 1
 @nikoniko: I think what he means is that many prepubescent boys are hungry apes wanting to taste poop, and teenage boys around 15 are apes wanting to fight and inseminate. I have been to a few parties for kids and observe teenagers in the gym or on the way to/ from school often. Older males tend to not tolerate little monkeys and if given a chance will kill them. I have myself wished worst of things to a kid from parallel class at my sons daycare. Maybe not worst aince slow death seems worst, I have been wishing him sudden, spectacular death.
  • 115 0
 Anyone else come straight for the comments again?
  • 10 1
 Right here
  • 4 1
 ok, yes I did...
  • 4 1
 Again? More like just about every single time.
  • 27 1
 Maybe...yes..no...okay yea...
  • 7 6
 I read some of these replies before going into comments and I almost never do that...
  • 5 0
 I mean, the bait is so obvious...
  • 5 0
 Definitely. Didn't even read all of the article
  • 13 0
 @AllenB: nobody did. This thing would take weeks to read. It’s basically a novel.
  • 1 1
 @rippersub: I read about half and then realized I was only halfway.
@sarahmoore I think it would have been a bit better to stretch this out over a couple of weeks so that we could have a bit more focus on what each person said. There were some interesting viewpoints here, just too many of them in one spot.
  • 102 12
 Why are there so few black and brown people in the industry, and why do corporations and outlets such as pinkbike not care about them?

Is it because they are racist, and white women are more likely to start a conversation about women and not minorities?
  • 29 23
 going to university in Toronto, and knowing a lot of people of different nationalities, the concept of leisure time and being able to spend thousands of dollars on bikes is foreign to most of these people, first or second gen. most of their older relatives grew up essentially starving and it's still in the collective family memory where you could be one step away from dire poverty. i was told by some of my school colleagues they are envious that I have a passion like cycling, because they simply weren't able to in their family environment growing up, and they know nothing but work.
  • 40 18
 @matt721: So all immigrants inherently come from poverty? Huh. Learned something new today.
  • 17 2
 @matt721: This an important comment. Cultural differences make differences in leisure choices, life choices, etc. If someone wants to be included, include them!
  • 54 8
 The question nobody asks: Why are there so few ginger people on WC circuit?!
  • 33 8
 As a brown person who strongly dislikes bro brah culture and who is also at the end of the fit spectrum I feel 100% disconnected from riding culture: zero people look like me and virtually every brand of bikes and apparel hates tall people. And that’s ok. I’ve found gear that works for me and other than that I stay away from the culture that seems intent on alienating me.
  • 55 15
 One of the biggest challenges that mountain biking faces is that there are systemic barriers to more people taking part (cost, trail access, representation, etc.). It doesn't mean anyone is actively racist, sexist, or actively trying to stop people from taking part, it just means that it's not a very accessible sport. And on a personal level I believe we as an industry should work to remove those systemic barriers.
  • 18 4
 @me2menow: Wow. That's not even close to what he said. @matt721 was sharing an anecdote from his personal experience and nowhere claimed it to be a statistical analysis.
  • 7 19
flag me2menow (Mar 6, 2020 at 11:12) (Below Threshold)
 @BiNARYBiKE: No, I fully understand what he said. He should be more careful about brushing the concept of inclusion off based on his minimal anecdotal experience. Such a limited perspective and hardly a representation of the lives and experiences of millions of non-white people who live in north america. It's irresponsible to spread that kind of narrative.
  • 5 12
flag Haroldhotdog456 (Mar 6, 2020 at 11:15) (Below Threshold)
 @me2menow: yes, his perspective is a purely Western, white perspective. There is a world beyond the white safe Haven's in North America that dominate thought about inclusivity, priveledge, and diversity
  • 28 8
 @brianpark: " It doesn't mean anyone is actively racist, sexist, or actively trying to stop people from taking part"

so... whats the point of this article then? We need to remove the "systemic barriers"? The only barrier I know is that a decent used bike runs $2k, and unless you can get engineers to work for free and carbon to lay up itself, thats not changing anytime soon.
  • 7 7
 @Haroldhotdog456: OMG you weren’t joking in your first comment. What is the color of your skin if I may ask...
  • 27 7
 @hamncheez: Seriously.

I'm all for including women, but really, why are bunch of white chicks any more diverse than their white male counterparts?

At the end of the day, this sport is for the wealthy. You want to change riding demographics? How about we cut the bike prices in half.
  • 13 8
 @sheldonuvic: really? What is your job? Can you cut your salary in half?
  • 8 1
 @WAKIdesigns: well, I'm a hotdog. Reddish brown
  • 10 1
 @WAKIdesigns: No, we can't. That is entirely my point.
  • 7 10
 @Haroldhotdog456: ok we have something to work on... so to get right into it, when was the first time you got discriminated for your skin color when applying for a job in bike industry?
  • 21 10
 @hamncheez: for example, limited representation is a barrier. Hopefully more ladies out there go "oh hey maybe that's something I could do" when they learn about the people in this article. And the same goes for other underrepresented groups.
  • 6 3
 @WAKIdesigns: at Highland Bike Park, I feel that pale gas station hotdogs were chosen over myself due to my content and color.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: It's not so much a "not very accessible sport", rather a sport that isn't recognized as a recreational opportunity to people living in the middle of a large city. This is a marketing issue. Thankfully, there are groups in almost all major cities to help get kids (and adults) who would never know mt biking existed out on trails. EVERY big city has co-ops that get people on bikes for pennies on the dollar. Even good ones. I stated elsewhere from the article, "share more women's stories, introduce more women to this sport that I love." Organic, genuine, and exciting exposure from great ambassadors of the sport attracts more great ambassadors of the sport. This is the best way to get more people who are not white and not male involved, and it really doesn't cost much at all.
  • 7 4
 @alexsin: What if literally no one had even an inkling of care what your colour is and only cared if your attitude meshed with theirs?
You quite possibly fixate on skin colour more than any of the bros. That said, bro-culture is what it is, a lot of us just don't relate to it.
  • 6 4
 @brianpark: bollocks!

Cost. Maybe, kinda. You can get a ripping good hardtail (eg Nukeproof Scout) fir very little money after saving up for a few months at your after school McDonald's jobs.

Trails. Look at trailforks, there are trails everywhere, and that's just the mapped stuff.

"Representation". What the hell do you need representation for to go mountain biking? Sure it probably matters at done level for groups building trails etc, but for your Joe-Blow weekend rider what does that even mean?
  • 5 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 6, 2020 at 12:07) (Below Threshold)
 @Haroldhotdog456: is this hot dog thing a way of you signalling the size and readiness of your genital structure to get back on white people? I am not assuming your gender, I tend to clap to big penises as much as to meaty labias, help yourself
  • 13 5
 @Ktron: it's a lot harder for an inner city kid from some places to try mountain biking than it is for a kid from North Van. There are trails everywhere, but good ones near urban population centres with largely non-white demographics are rare. And yes there are plenty of individual exceptions to this, but big picture...

And I meant representation in the context of seeing people like you doing the thing that you are considering doing. As a middle class white guy I definitely never had any imposter syndrome in this industry or wondered if I belonged.
  • 6 4
 @brianpark: this relates to the legal function of silence being kin to compliance. With this recent push to recognize the lack of and need for women in the corporate sector of the sport, it highlights the lack of care for and desire to increase numbers of minorities in the industry. As far as I know, there are zero festivals and events that cater to increasing participation from minorities. There are programs that target cycling from a utilitarian (and recreational to a much lesser degree) perspective.

The complete lack of mention or research regarding minority participation in the industry shows that the staff has zero interest in true equality. It doesn't take a genius to understand that parties will address matters that are important to them, whether it be for moral or ethical standards, public opinion, or monetary gain. Parties will not address issues that have no benefit in their opinion, and are therefore silent. In this case, the silence is regarding minorities.

There is an entire world filled with wealthy, educated, and active people of color. Perhaps you can say that these groups represent less wealth in the West, but that's obviously false in let's say Uganda or Chile.

Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's racism, maybe it's conditioning based on a lack of worldly experience and perspective. Surely the issue is not simple
  • 2 3
 @WAKIdesigns: Dumbass, his user name is Harold Hotdog. He's making a joke that he's a literal hotdog.
  • 8 15
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 6, 2020 at 12:29) (Below Threshold)
 @Haroldhotdog456: or maybe real wealth of the world always belonged to white people, becaue Europeans managed to fk up all their neighborhood, then proceeded with colonization, where they fkd up other parts of the world with actual genuine homocidal and genocidal methods in order to change fortune of feudal zero sum game then they started industrial revolution, and all the progress in the world for good and bad, with use of slavery has been made by white people. So white people have long established since hundreds of years the structure of current society and people of color come by big percentage from poorer regions of the world. They don’t have same connections. Being an European, coming from Poland, a theater of biggest butcheries of history of this planet, I can tell you for sure that white Europeans did not use black people as slaves because they were black, just like English didn’t put Irish down because they were pink, white people fkd up the whole world with zero regard to actual color. Had Indians of South America been white, it would make no f*cking difference, they would be slaughtered or enslaved. Europeans did not expand and created the current culture through pillage because people of color were naive or friendly and got screwed over. The geographical conditions allowed whites to evolve weaponry faster. If you don’t see this as a natural process, then we have nothing to talk about. So guess what, bad luck. You are like dumber part of Polish people seeking retribution from Germany for second World War. We are no longer living in racist 1960s so don’t behave as if KKk was after you or younhad to look for PoC toilet. Get skilled, get educated, you will get hired and respected. I am a Polish immigrant in Sweden, I can throw my hands uo in the air and call discrimination everytime I don’t get what I want. Except I have never ever f*cking done itdespite occasions and hearing people in my position whine like bitches. Because nobody gives a shit about mine or your feelings while you are still outside. Your option is to get it or go cry to SJW FB groups. Good luck with that!
  • 9 6
 @me2menow: stop intelligence shaming me.
  • 9 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm not positing that this is an occurrence in the industry. I'm recognizing the idiotic hypocrisy of Pinkbike in their tendency towards using women as a vehicle for their "concerns" rather than minorites
  • 12 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'll also add, as an immigrant and Vietnamese American, that I don't feel disadvantaged at all and that the playing field for competition in America is pitiful and rife for the taking by educated and hard-working minorities
  • 6 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Don't leave out the Mongols f*cking up ALLL of Asia and much of Eastern Europe. And DO NOT omit Arabic ownership of black slaves and the mortality of those slaves exceeded by many factors what had happened in the Americas. And don't leave out the Ottomans rolling over former Byzantium and Eastern and Central Europe....and don't leave out the Moors taking over Western Europe.
Point being is f*ckery and quest for domination and exploitation is international.
Tribalism is strong, why people try to pretend it isn't is proof positive people will parrot anything if they hear it enough.
  • 10 3
 @Ian713: it’s irrelevant. The only bit that matters is who ended up on top. English and their child US ended up on top since 1600s. Whites were setting up their social structure and developed their countries for the last 400 years. It is no different from a petri dish containing unevenly dispersed different nutrients being inoculated with different types of mushroom spores. The ones who work best with particular nutrition and get most of it, will dominate the whole petri dosh...
  • 17 0
 @brianpark: it's hard to get into snowboarding when you live somewhere it doesn't snow either. That doesn't mean snowboarding isn't inclusive.

It shouldn't be surprising that inner city kids might not be into mountain biking. Maybe skateboarding would be a better hobby?

As a kid growing up and being massively into basketball, none of my favourite players looked anything like me. It's a pretty weak excuse to not do something you want to do.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: That's a truly wonderful thought. But how would that work in practice?...
Cost: Comapnies can't make a great, high performing bike for $300.
Trail access: If you live in a metropolis with few mountains around (or in the flatlands of America), how do you propose providing trail access for people who live here? It's like trying to get more Arizona into surfing.
Representation: That's tough because there's a small pool of under-represented people to pull from, and, when you do, you get called out for "tokenism."
If feel like people are in an unrealistic rush to fix everything that could be improved. Many of these things will take generation or two. We have to work diligently at them, but I recoil from the frustration of people who want to take a top down approach in the belief that they could suddenly make everything perfect overnight.
As others have said, equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcome.
  • 2 3
 @WAKIdesigns: irrelevant to whom? If you say to everyone then you're ignorant, but if you say it's irrelevant to only some people then you contradict yourself.
Ended up on top? You may be surprised to hear this, but time has not stopped. Nothing has ended.
You're not on top and neither am I, we are entirely replaceable.
Who's getting the best nutrition? Have you seen how much people in the west eat processed food? When shit hits the fan, we'll be ill-equipped physiologically and psychologically to endure hardships (regardless of colour but more whites have shit diets per capita than any other race).
Even in terms of numbers, white people don't match the metaphor you've painted, whites are not plentiful on a global scale, and their numbers are getting smaller by the day.
  • 4 3
 @Ian713: I mean on top of social structure given current circumstances. When shit hits the fan there is nobody that can predict what will happen, how it will happen, what will be the time scale of shit leaving the bum, meeting the fan and splashing. I don’t understand what you are arguing? Mongols are not ruling the financial or industrial world, and will never do. Ottomans won’t get far either though much further than Mongols. US is dominated by whites and US dominates the world. You just need a better gun than your neighbor and US happens to be able to wipe out the rest of the world in one day then chase down survivors.

I just said there is a reason why companies in US or Europe are dominated by white people, since generations these companies or their hybrids were run by generations of white people. Children of these people were sent to universities, their parents supported them financially. If you come out of nowhere, the color of your skin matters a little in comparison to someone coming from somewhere. It is who stays behind you as you are growing into the world. I am happy to accept that more or less consciously people of color may be less accepted for certain roles. But the background of it all is far deeper than “racism” no matter how awful it is,
  • 1 0
 @Haroldhotdog456: Hey I'm (half) Viet too!
  • 5 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I thought you had gone sober. Then I log in after work to read your comments.
  • 6 0
 @me2menow: hey, thanks for your thoughts. here is a concrete example of what I am saying to make it more clear. I am not painting with a broad brushstroke, simply sharing an anecdote to add to the discussion.

My roommate at U of T was a civil engineer from China. He was really interested in my bikes, and we watched Where the Trail ends one time, and he knew the region in china where bearclaw and gang were riding. he was from near there, and said all the kids there have to study 14 hours a day or go to work 7 days a week. he said I was incredibly lucky to have a passion like cycling, something he never had the chance to do, and said he never learned to love things outside of work and school.

All I am saying from my experience, is that their is a cultural element in the explanation of why cycling is largely a whiter, western dominated sport. cheers
  • 5 3
 @WAKIdesigns: You have backtracked from claiming white people dominate the world to now saying the biggest companies are headed up by white people. Well no shit, Sherlock.
Go figure that in the continents where white people are majority, the biggest companies are headed up by white folks. Who'd have thunk it?
Next someone will inform us that the people heading up the wealthiest companies in India are Indians, in China are Chinese, in Japan are Japanese, etc...

You wanted to illustrate your point with nutrition and claim those who got the most out of it are dominant. Well how long does that dominance go on? It looks to me like most white westerners are too ill-fed and too reliant on processed food to carry that point for you.
If you write that white people have screwed over everyone, try not omitting the other groups of people who have historically screwed over everyone. We just happen to be in a system right now where the last group of people to express global dominance, did so with a system that rewards people if they choose to play the game with all its corruption and incentives.
Yes, hundreds of millions, maybe even billions of people are getting f*cked over now, but it's by the hand of a comparatively tiny group of people. It's not like Jeremy the white mechanic is making the decisions to destabilize Syria.
  • 2 1
 @Haroldhotdog456: its a secret, hard work still pays off, why asians are and have been kicking ass, better education, better incomes, better nuclear families
  • 1 4
 @Ian713: you must understand the difference between medieval warfare and modern day economics... I never said white people will rule the Earth until Sun goes red giant and scorches it. If Asians take over, then people will whine about Asian privilege.

I am disgusted by Western nutrition standards in the face of how available proper nutrition is and information about how to use it. But I don’t see how a fat pilot in F35 or fat operator of Nuclear submarine is going to fall victim of lean Arab with Kalashnikov or even leaner, soy fed Chinese Pilot of Mig 21
  • 1 3
 @hamncheez: Episode with amanitas
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I know, I'm just f*cking with you. I don't know why, I just thought it'd be fun.
I agree, people mistake majority privilege as some inherent monster, while refusing to acknowledge the diagnostics of how their society has got to where it is.
  • 3 2
 @Ian713: what... iam getting old
  • 6 5
 @Haroldhotdog456: I dunno about “ idiotic hypocrisy” but you’ll get no argument from me that we (as a company and as an industry) can and should do more to highlight and support underrepresented groups.
  • 9 4
 @Ktron: you’re advocating for equality, while others advocating for equity/liberation. I see what you’re saying, but just because you personally didn’t need role models in basketball doesn’t mean that others wouldn’t benefit from it in other areas.
  • 6 3
 @brianpark: @brianpark: The question this posses of course, is is it still MTBing? What is the biggest growth and largest participant pools in say Enduro in your area? Ours is young lads, and Masters, by far. Despite a decade of support, female only coaching and more inclusive trail building and resources. Masters in ladies is 35, men 40. Are there elements of non visible or intangible MTBing that appeals to men rather than women? Do men welcome the relief of riding in isolation or back country unsupported more than women, does it assist community wellbeing and health by retaining these original elements, more than the benefit by changing MTBing to an unsustainable or aspirational objective of inclusivity.

I read the professional comments by well deserved and qualified individuals. In particular this struck me as both relevant to MTB and general modern employment, "The biggest issue for women in the bike industry is that we're an issue at all. It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management". That is true, but to be qualified and trusted in seniority by an investor you require a rounded and complete knowledge of the business as a whole. Why is it that women have a predominance to chase and seek opportunity immediately in Communications, HR, Marketing and Strategy. Another published author above laments the lack of application for engineering applications by females. But its predominately an engineering and manufacture business. If you don't understand these critical components of the business intimately and deeply, how can you demand or believe on merit that by gender alone you are ready, equipped and are entitled to the role?

And this is a given the world over. Additionally when the tough times come, these soft side skill sets are the first to be culled. So now the career is subject to the global economic cycle, and again this makes you subject to claim income differential, but fundamentally its ultimately around the career you sought, a conscious decision around where you invested your time.

So across industry and globally the world, we have invested and trumpeted the inclusive STEM based careers for women and the evidence is that its not turning the dial, women are not choosing these career paths, or if they do they are liable to use it as a stepping stone and after 5 years are seeking change finding the demands, the hours, the travel, the pressure, the competition of modern economically constrained industries not for them. Generally.

So industry and those that are industry observe two things - needing to address the growing and unrealistic ESG obligations being layered on organisations with a fundamental fudicial duty to generate and make profit, and the need to appeal to the growing poorly conceived liberal ideal of equality and accessibility, somehow now being adjunct to meaning quotas and 50% contribution, by demand. And the existing employees see that through mandated employment of minorities, or employment bias, and streams and categories of careers being female allocated and driven. Anyone else subject or heard someone say "there is no use applying, its allocated". Or as hiring manager, being told? And we wonder about pushback? These are men either being denied opportunity or employment while being breadwinners and parents, for their girls and wives survival. Some skin in game too then, with many many brownie points earned over years or decades already racked up with employers.

And that is where the backlash is, because the bias comes at the clear expense of the long serving and loyal employees whom can be Fathers and Parents whom have served their time, assisted the industry grow and innovate yet will never be given opportunity at Management or Leadership for an entire two generations while we reset this intolerable injustice. So these biased and "bro" nature (its astounding in the submissions how many backhanded slights to Men and how industry is run are allowed, its now cultural norm, no use complaining Fathers) that have created the industry that some females desire participating and growing, are no longer fit to be in the industry. I loved the one about being in a meeting with the "old guard" driving the meeting agenda. Not that the old guard had the credibility, resources or skin in the game greater than you, just that this approach made you feel uncomfortable, and thus needs to change. Some would argue not, this drives outcomes, minimises waste and aspirational fluff, is resource conscious and aware of a range of matters and consideration coming with experience.

There are two truths that come out across industry and modern employment, 1) there is only so many jobs in management and executive to go around, and everyone wants them and 2) as the oil or mining or manufacturing industries attest, the closer to the well head, mine operation or plant you are, generally the safer you are. The dirtier you are, the harder you understand supply chain, theory of constraint, industry technologies and manufacturing, the better and more qualified you are to put your hand up to lead, and that is right and good in a resource constrained, low waste, low interest rate high debt world. Whom has been led and empowered by great women already through the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s? all of us. So it is possible, it needs to be fought for and that is HARD though. You will miss birthdays, sack people, not support your kids education in the seeking of self. It don't mater your gender, world resource leadership should come from the smartest and most qualified, and that often is those who apply, get dirty, chew off more than handle, seek challenge and accept and manage risk. It also comes with a fair degree of family or recreational sacrifice. As a single father of participating children in the sport, and with our level of employment support versus the recent programs and focus on gender, I don't buy the systemic issues attributed to gender argument anymore . If this isn't as close to a level playing field and opportunity for all I don't know what is with the mandated and compulsory social programs in place. Ultimately market demand drives industry. The market is saturated and no growth opportunities exist so the captains of industry are seeking alternate markets, the infirmed and less well abled with eBike technology, demographic opportunity. Its about a bigger economy, stupid.

I did not see anyone in the industry pushing back on the gutting of predominately male employment at the cost of the manufacturing industries for profit and lower wages costs as it moved to third world countries. Or the prevalent and endemically greater unemployment of males versus females, not the striking success in female participation success over last two decades in first world countries. Perhaps as supply chain surety issues most recent forces more domestic manufacturing back onshore, females will lead the vanguard and take the opportunity to reset the imbalance and start at bottom and work up, and not setting unrealistic expectations that in 5 years you will be boss, exec, snr management. Technology and employment obligations mandate this is becoming less of an issue to provide stimulating, interesting and equally achievable career possibilities leading to the opportunity at management.

Two final queries in this long running dialogue:
1) Is there a natural threshold and limit to participation based on the sport characteristics, ignoring culture. Sharp rocks, fast speed, isolation, demanding conditions, entry expense. If there is, why would taxpayers or investors be compelled to support or seek to invest beyond that? How do we get more boys in Netball anyone, slipped off my media feed. Why are common MTB strategies to the community demands for more organic MTBing riding opportunities to immediately introduce skills and green trails for greater participation?. Seems like the best way to cause concern for the original participants, greater resource stress in a constrained network; and
2) Ok Industry with all the benevolence you have above marketing spin - across your entire supply chain (this is standard business practice evaluation and disclosure), with the manufacturing elements in Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Korea and China, in these low wage environments that have allowed the industry to be what it today, what is your gender statistics. I think you may find if you count these truly in an auditable and transparent function, you are pretty close to parity, or significantly more than if we look at the local first world on shore Management, Distribution, Sales and marketing functions only as being "the entity". Can you please be compelled to publish these in annual reports to listing jurisdictions, and we can then discuss these matters on an evidence basis. You have used and exploited these women in largely sweatshop conditions, be proud and publish the stats by region please. Show the intent above the spin.

I applaud all women whom have made it, those who taught or led me in hard industries, my daughter included whom is a great rider through again a shit lot of injury and hard work. But after 10 years she decided she didn't want to ride anymore, as did her male brother, due other interests and life cycles. I don't see it as a failure. Forcing results as in forcing participation is a failure, and dead end navel gazing. If you want it, get it. Stop Bro blaming, its so 2014 where again was found to be an invective of Industry who really want bigger economies, larger revenue and lower wages through supply options. Modern World.
  • 7 3
 @DRomy: yep agreed. Lots of challenges. I think things like pumptracks are great in cities, as well as school programs, etc.

I also think that the industry MUST find ways to make decent, reliable (if heavy) mountain bikes with proper geometry under $1000 usd. If we want to grow I firmly believe that’s necessary.

I agree that the perfect is the enemy of the good when it comes to this stuff. And you’re right that it’s going to take a long time to get anywhere. It sucks to get attacked for not doing enough of various things when you’re trying. But the reality is we all can do more.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: I agree. You can get into skating for $100, bmx for a few hundred, but low-end mtb starts around $1500, $7-800 for a trail-worthy hardtail. A lot of times buying a cheap hardtail makes sense to first timers because they’re not sure they’ll like it and don’t want to invest $ before trying it out, but the cheap hardtail is not fun or forgiving for novice riders. Dilemma.
  • 2 0
 @sheldonuvic:But it takes more volume to bring prices down, so the cart is before the horse. If the bike industry wasn’t as structured around obsolescence and proprietary design and making new shit just to change it we’d see low-end bikes getting better and cheaper which would sell more and drive up demand rather than the top-end getting ridiculously high and becoming more exclusive. Mtb has become more and more luxury/status oriented, kind of a bummer. Nobody is gonna quit riding next year if 13sp 8-58 cassettes aren’t being produced but plenty of people are turned off by the lack of quality entry level offerings. They see the high-end and it looks like a slippery slope.
I’d love to see a more utilitarian alternative fs trailbike available with basic but decent suspension (single pivot), simple open bath fork, cable discs, external routing (except sp), no paint or just simple clearcoat, under $1000. I could sell a lot of that bike, for sure.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Because Gwin made a deal with the devil
  • 4 5
 Best comment I've read in a while. A quick glance at the photos of the pink bike staff will tell you all you need to know.

White dudes talking about how to create a more well round riding community. You're going to get exactly what you deserve if you think there's anything to come from it other than a $$$ sign. It's the same douches who tell you that the only part of riding that matters is the one on a $12k or that backflips are so technical.

Brands are just as guilty. All the frames and parts are made by non white hands, yet you'll never EVER see a photo of Asians riding. Hell will freeze over before you see a person of color on Pinkbike.
  • 12 0
 @jjwillTOmaui: Shaums March, Sanjay Shanbhag, Eliot Jackson, Tinker Juarez
  • 7 2
 @brianpark: Thanks for the responses to all these comments. Your even keel and thoughtful responses set a good example and a refreshing tone.
Work to be done, indeed. Baby steps.
  • 2 2
 @gonzoracing: You have officially exposed women for what their sneaky asses have been up to all along.
Any further complaints can and should be directed to your reply.
  • 6 1
 @brianpark: @brianpark: Yep. I am 100% in agreement. Indulge me though, I will play devil's advocate here.

Yes, yes yes... please, please please can we all agree that Brian has the entire "equality of opportunity" half of the equation nailed down right there.
Remove the barriers and the (insert preferred group with historically low participation rates here) will flock in and bring a cohort more reflective of wider society...

Oh, but now wait a minute...many people say we need to do more. We need to intervene more, and this is where the vitriol against the so called "equality of outcome" part of the equation appears.

So, can we not agree about going further than just "removing the systematic barriers".. that might not be enough. Maybe we need to actively promote greater participation by groups that have, up until now, ended up with lower participation rates due to those barriers??

That's what I see here in this article, women in the industry saying we need to remove the barriers and then some, we have to actively promote women in the industry to encourage participation from those who have been dissuaded previously.

Where's the problem in that? If we actively promote to historically low participation groups and we get a response, where's the ~ism in that?
If we actively promote it and still get no response, then maybe that is the time to rethink the perspective.

But we have to assume at this stage everyone has to work harder at increasing participation.

Besides, I for one am pretty tired with the "sick gnarly shredding bro" undercurrent that tends to provide the backdrop to the vast majority of an image-driven industry and anything that dilutes that gets my vote!
  • 4 2
 @orientdave: What's the problem?
What many guys have homed in on is how women show up onto a scene and then complain their way into opportunities that men have had to work for, and demand preferential treatment to atone for whatever made up bullshit that comes out of their mouths.


fwiw, I got my ex-wife into riding and she loves it. I'll take her out riding as often as she wants cause it's fun to see her enjoy it so much. But to her, spending what the industry is asking on a bike is crazy. Maybe that's what this is all coming from- some executives are trying to guilt men into becoming little sales agents for the bike companies.
  • 2 0
 @Haroldhotdog456: I rarely see minorities at highland. Maybe 2%
  • 11 2
 @orientdave: the biggest problem here is that SJWs assume Racism or sexism or homophobia driven malice whenever they spot a statistical inequality. And they instantly throw the privilege card. Which is all bull shit, and trying to change that is Usually causing more trouble Than it solves, it gives arms straight to the hands of actual racists, sexists and homophobes.
  • 8 2
 @WAKIdesigns: well said.

Exercise is critically important to mental and physical health. We all want our wives/daughters/sisters/friends to be healthy and happy. Its a lot easier to exercise when you combine it with a hobby. However, you can't spend your whole live worrying about the choices of others. In every way you measure it, in every country, women choose not to exercise as much as men or spend time outdoors as much as men. The whole world isn't sexist. Even if you sort data by least to most egalitarian countries, there is no correlation with women spending more time outdoors exercising.

Once you start claiming racism/sexism because people don't act the way you want them you, you build resentment. There is literally no guy on this site (99% male, I'm guessing) who wants fewer women in cycling. We just are sick of being told we are bad because of the choices of others.
  • 5 2
 @hamncheez: In my anecdotal experience limited to exactly 7 individuals whom I meet often who are environmentalists, pro animal rights and also feminists to a degree, basically activists, only one of them can be described and socially fully functional. They come to a pub and can have a casual conversation with almost anybody about almost anything. The rest is socially awkward and two of them are Evidently disfunctional. Now, when I pick up a subject related to something environmentally sound they are incapable to having a longer conversation about some more tangible facts or solutions, one could assume they are rather uneducated in the subject and quickly jump into blaming the whole world and speaking in very general terms what is wrong but very rarely how to fix it. For example they can whine all day about how polluting and energy heavy flying is, BUT! They are incapable and evidently Not interested in discussing construction of railroads, self driving electric trucks. All they know is that X is wrong and it has to stop. This combined with many things I read online, leads me to a hypothesis that these people are simply asocial. They don’t give a shit about the agenda, They are not interested in solving it, they just Want to get attention, they just want air time. All their life they were ignored, maybe bullied, never been the part of the group and now they found their chance to shine and maybe even get some form of revenge. They just want to preach and the social mechanics of such position work in a way that if you start evangelizing people, they will demand a big deal of you putting your money where your mouth is, but when you set the bar so high, it gets simply impossible. In such case your enemies, or rather people who are actually performing some sort of social misconduct like some form of tribalism, racism, sexism, they will spot it immediately, grab it and put it against EVERYONE who speaks up about some real issue. Virtue signalling is highly irresponsible.
  • 6 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Another way to think about it is that since we as a society killed God, people desperately need to fill that void in their lives that religion used to fill. Social justice movements give people purpose and meaning, as well as moral self-worth. If they recite the liturgy of intersectionality, give deference to the Priests and Priestesses of climate change, and preach to others of the need for repentance, then they can be a morally fulfilled, righteous person.
  • 5 2
 @hamncheez: I couldn’t agree more. It’s a big part of it. Slavoj Zizek said on one of his lectures that road to real atheism leads only through religion. That is because a person who grew up in religious environment can then relate Certain human behaviors, ideas, ways of thinking and attitudes, ways of speaking to what they heard and observed in church and among religious relatives. You can hear it in nutrition world, training (do I need to go further than mentioning how ideas of balance and flexibility get misinterpreted and propelled as high values no human actually aspire to while strength rarely gets that vibe?)

Then there Is a book “spiritual bypassing”, it’s about how we insert God or will of God whenever we struggle to find meaning in anything, either good or bad things. Man, that shit is so relatable to environmentalism or gender issues.
  • 2 2
 @hamncheez: Truth x1000
  • 4 4
 @hamncheez: I can put it even better: the issue is that self righteous people, like most SJWs, abuse referring to higher virtue and ultimate punishment just like religious people do with God. The typical”God wanted it this way”. In case of loud kind of environmentalists It’s: X is good for the planet, Y is horrible for the environment. In case of SJWs it is oppressed vs oppressors, “Women Or Peole of Color should be represented because equality, if you don’t agree you are a Nazi!”. Don’t masturbate or you’ll go to hell like sort garbage so that your children won’t hate you for stealing Their future. Nobody operates with tangible arguments. More women in MTB! Or what? Or you will loose money! How? Oh attitudes like yours are exactly why there’s less women In mtb and we will never achieve equality!
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: dude...smh
  • 4 3
 @hamncheez: kind of ironic, the bicycle played a big role in suffrage/women’s rights, even helped changed their expected dress code from dresses to trousers (for safety), and provided transportation other than walking. Walking was considered low class.. a higher class dainty woman was expected to be indoors. Men were not at all happy about women on bikes and the new freedom it provided them. I have several hilarious anti-female bicycle propaganda clippings from the local paper from around that time at my bike shop. One warned that women would develop husky, raspy voices from hooting and hollering while riding! Traditionally, women haven’t been encouraged to do anything but cook, clean and raise kids. So when outdoor sports were invented and structured it was always for men first, women were home being domestic.
So I’m willing to bet a strong correlation exists between how much more time men spend outdoors exercising and how much more time women spend indoors cooking, cleaning, raising kids. How about single women with no kids? There are just as many single mothers out there with full custody and therefore no time. This is obviously changing, women are supposedly liberated but just look at some of these comments.. Plenty of bitter, intimidated men so it’s obviously a slow process.
  • 3 2
 ... and Tobacco company engineered a happening where early Feminists Movement in US simultaneously lit cigarettes on Easter Sunday Parade in NY while Journalists photographed it. Next day The Newspapers had the picture on the first page with huge title “Torches of Freedom”. It became a big part of feminist movement in US but was orchestrated scheme to make women smoke more.

Not everything that shine’s gold. Be careful Smile
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: oh man.. so bikes may be cancerous after all?? Struggling to make sense of the analogy here..
  • 2 2
 @WAKIdesigns: dammit. Sometimes you're a dick,but that was quite good.
Begrudging compliments.
  • 87 21
 If you want to encourage women to participate in mountain biking, rounding up the PB commenters and firing them into the sun would be a good place to start.
  • 33 11
 No ones stopping you, go ahead and start with yourself.
  • 61 4
 uh, hire them if they are qualified and want the job?
  • 56 6
 Can someone explain me why to get into biking industry in the first place? Best way to earn little and ride even less?
  • 7 3
 Yep, better work your ass off at school for 10 years and then become a dentist. You will be able to buy any bike you want and there won't be all that equality stuff running around. Best of both worlds!!
  • 22 0
 @WAKIdesigns I don't always agree with what you say and I often can't piece together what your point even is but this... this hits home. All my friends who have left the industry are living the high life working unspeakably boring desk jobs and riding the living shit out of their suddenly much nicer bikes in all these incredible places every weekend.
  • 5 2
 @fullfacemike: I know a couple of people in various branches of the industry Smile the stories of folks in smaller brands are particularly touching... I mean really touching. It’s not a sarcasm. This time.
  • 5 2
 Specialist industries can be a good way to progress quickly in your field. Many excellent, effective director and C-suite level people in the bike industry wouldn't have gotten those opportunities in other fields.
  • 7 0
 I work in the bike Industry and yes the pay is considerably less than the very nice, well paid, incredibly cushy position I held in a different sector, which I left by choice for my current employment. Why did I do it then you may ask.
Well, because money isn't everything. Now I ride every day, I get to share the joys & benefits cycling with boys & girls who otherwise would not get the chance to learn to ride a bike, expand their skills, feel safer & more confident within themselves as people while expanding their horizons. All of which has an amazing positive effect on their outlooks & development as they try to find their place in the world. To me that is way more rewarding & fulfilling than chasing money ever was.
  • 4 2
 @Dropthedebt: I exclusively combined earn less and ride less... I chose to work 75% instead of 100% since I want to spend more time with family, work out/ ride. But some people I know struggle to find time to ride even though they thought they will have job that will allow riding more. My comment wasn’t entirely serious
  • 4 0
 @Dropthedebt: Great for you! I wish you the best. For me, taking my main hobby and making it my job would remove most of the fun I have in it. On top of that, I like my current job and it's a good thing since I studied 8 years for it.
  • 2 0
 @fullfacemike: As i sit here at my incredibly boring desk job making a salary I could have never dreamt of burning the clock reading PB comments staring at my framed trail maps on the 4 walls around me dreaming of my grossly overpriced sled I never thought I could ever afford in the basement of my house with 6" of dust on it I wonder why I dont live in a van making just enough to get me to the next riding destination with nothing to worry about other than where can I ride next......
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Waki, I love your content on here but it's sometimes difficult to know when you are serious or not. It seems you have done something to change your work/life balance now you have a family and that's really great.
However, when you're asking a question don't be surprised when someone provides an answer. If the question is tongue in cheek, pop a winky face at the end to convey the intent. You know better than anyone how something said in a comments section can be misconstrued in a way the same thing if said in a face to face conversation would be clear. Beer
  • 2 3
 @Dropthedebt: Nah, Now ot got serious, I didn’t take it as any form of “hey, what’s your problem” Smile i am happy people work in the bike industry making my riding experience better. Cheers!
  • 3 0
 @lRaphl: I understand, it is a personal thing. The beauty of my job is one day I will be in a school, the next could be at a trail centre, some days even educating HGV drivers in Cycle Hazard Perception as part of their CPC Driver Training. We take them onto the roads on bikes, enabling them to gain the opposite perspective and make us all safer in the long run.
Best of luck to you. tup
  • 3 0
 @Dropthedebt: Your job sounds as rad as it does rare. Not being sarcastic, it does sound incredibly rewarding and you're doing some serious good in this world. Unfortunately those jobs seem a little scarce...
  • 4 0
 100% the bike industry sucks to work in.
  • 1 0
 @fullfacemike: As our societal attitudes towards cycling are changing they are actually becoming more common. There a lot investment going into sustainable transport, infrastructure & leisure these days and that has a knock on effect.
Our conversation kind of answers some of the questions posed in this article. It's changing perceptions that people, of all gender, can find a place within the industry. It's a bigger pool than just manufacturing or wrenching.
I've had a client who at 11 had never riden a bike. Now as a 16 year old will be spending this summer with a trade team in Belgium to gain experience on what may be her road to bigger success. 5 years ago she didn't even know things like that were possible until the perception was changed.
It's the exact same thing for getting more women involved in cycling. The okay to say door is open but do they even know the door is there. it's about changing the perception so they can see the door and enter.
Beer
  • 2 0
 I will say that if you work hard you can get to positions that you might not have achieved as quickly in other industries. But I remember the conversation with HR when I applied for a job outside of bikes. I asked for 2x what I made since that is what glassdoor said the position made. They never questioned it.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: that’s a double edged sword. There are a lot of those C-suite level people who have no business in that type of position but are in them due to it being the bike industry. They’ve run quite a few of the best brands into the ground and scorpion’d
  • 2 0
 @Authimini: 6" of dust?!! Jesus,check your insulation or shut a door
  • 1 0
 @Dropthedebt: it’s about having more doors, too. Not many kids want to race or have the means
  • 1 0
 and end up hating the sport. NEVER make your passion your job, NEVER.
  • 2 0
 @jamesbrant:
For some maybe, I do understand where you are coming from. For me personally, absolutely not.
  • 1 1
 When I worked at the bike shop in college it was pretty much the access to the employee discount. That and the shop culture was the only reason to stay. Nothing was sadder than the 40 yo guy wrenching on bikes for the same reason. Dude get a real job and pay retail and you'd be much better off. Once I graduated I left and got a real job but still got the shop discount win-win!
  • 1 0
 @chasejj: before I reply, are you referring to me?
  • 1 0
 @chasejj: no worries Beer
  • 48 0
 Rad women on bikes attract more rad women on bikes. Nuff said.
  • 42 0
 "It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management." Yes, yes it should, it should be difficult. For everyone.
  • 51 14
 Why do we need to force women into bike industry?
  • 2 16
flag Tiez (Mar 6, 2020 at 16:22) (Below Threshold)
 The same odd guy from mother russia again, i guess you don't get it. Sorry but your country is some decades behind.
  • 3 1
 @Tiez: I'd highly suggest getting off your high horse and then getting over yourself
  • 1 2
 @Tiez: some decades behind what? Collapsing ‘progressive’ western culture?
  • 35 3
 I would hate for someone to miss out on the awesome experience that mountainbiking is because they think there are no opportunities for women, or they are intimidated by being "the only chick" in the group. I just want everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy the sport that I love. (making it more economically friendly would be good too)

Also for all you single dudes out there, this can only be good right? Let's end the mtb sausage fest!
  • 34 5
 Thanks for this article! It is not always easy to show support, and weigh in the comments when the bro's are out in full force (this past week has been brutal), but there are many women who visit PB (I do daily), and support this type of content!
  • 32 8
 Who cares.

What calculabe difference will it make to have more women behind the scenes in the industry? It's just a gender. Being a woman won't make your insites any more relevant to mountain biking. Only the way you can pander to your own gender. Who cares?

When more women are riding bikes eventually they will populate industry roles as their balance in the total rider population itself is balanced. The push for affirmative action mandated balance of women's participation in the industry is reverse sexism at its best.

Any demographic will have a larger role in an industry when they educate themselves in areas that are relevant to said indistry. ie: engineering, purchasing, supply chain management, marketing, sales. When someone is qualified for a specific role and their passions align with an industry they will venture into that world.

Until then the question is a waste of internet.
  • 29 7
 Our team consists of 6 women and 2 men and I just got basted for it on NSMB yesterday. A couple of commenters saying we only hire women to make clothes for men or something absurd like that... Can't win.
  • 7 5
 "Team" including the women running the sewing machines...though I get what you meant.
You guys make great stuff, but NSMB made a valid point: How many female athletes/ambassadors do you have?
  • 6 3
 It's a tough crowd on the internet. I read your NSMB article, and thought "I can get Made in Canada shorts for $170?" That's what 7mesh shorts cost and they certainly aren't made here. I know where my next shorts are coming from.

Think of the vast majority of people that read an unfairly critical comment like that and believe the commenter is nuts. At least, I do.
  • 11 5
 @50percentsure: 100% solid point. NF put out they wanted women to apply ~year ago (sadly i put my name out) then they decided, meh not worth making women's specific clothing and supporting a female ambassador. now they're sad that they're getting called on it.. down vote me all day long, it won't change how i feel
  • 7 2
 @50percentsure: Yes, team in this case meaning our employees - women working in the industry. We are a microscopic brand at the moment. The development costs and customer service required for adding a women's line just isn't in the cards at the moment. We tried and weren't ready but will try again when we are. We have 2 female riders right now.
  • 6 2
 @50percentsure: and thank you! We certainly try
  • 5 3
 @husstler: our first rule of business is; if someone hands us their hard-earned money, respect them enough to hand them something of equal or greater value in return.
  • 4 9
flag travis-the-tailor (Mar 6, 2020 at 11:08) (Below Threshold)
 @crysvb: you got that all wrong, but I know why you are bitter and it has nothing to do with anything. Say hi to andrew.
  • 5 6
 @travis-the-tailor: i was bitter before andrew even knew who you were. you're not progressive at all
  • 5 4
 @crysvb: have we met?
  • 7 6
 @travis-the-tailor: hi Travis ! We certainly aren’t bitter about not being supported by NF anymore. It was fake from the start,I was never appreciated for all the promoting I did for your brand. It was your loss truly. Good luck with your team building and I hope your company stays profitable.
  • 9 6
 @travis-the-tailor: if you're proud of the TWO girls you "support" show them off, put them on the website like all the bros. that's a step in the right direction. hopefully neither of them had to pay for their "sponsorship"
  • 8 6
 ha well I guess I just learned how brutal the comments can be. from alternative opinions to straight up lies. It is a brutal place to hang out!
  • 2 3
 @travis-the-tailor:
Love all my gear from NF. And it’s from a local company doing good things for the community. The people hating either have a hidden agenda or are just trollIng to piss you off. Forget about them.
  • 4 0
 @SquamishSucks: I don't hate them. I like their gear and what they do. But when over 40% of riders locally (and will help grow a business) are women, and a company aims it's business only at men, and are all over social media like no other company, it's not surprising that this gets noticed. Just say something like 'womens line-up in the works' or something like that? And yes, post the women up on their website along with all the guys.
  • 3 0
 @wallheater: never fear, i noticed they took the wonderful advice of the mean commenters on the interwebZz and posted a female on the instagram. they also changed the wording about the team from the "boys" to the "crew"
:-)
  • 36 12
 Nobody gives a f*ck. Can we please get back to arguing about wheels size? Jesus Christ.
  • 7 20
flag xxaw89xx (Mar 6, 2020 at 15:18) (Below Threshold)
 He manplains from his male-privelaged position!! Maybe you should consider why you don’t care about this sort of thing.
  • 12 5
 @xxaw89xx: thanx for woman’splaining that to me. The term mansplain doesn’t even apply to what he said. Kudos on using your sweet buzzword this.
Ps- he was implying that men or women, who gives a shit. At least that’s how I took it. But I’m just a dumb man.
  • 6 15
flag xxaw89xx (Mar 6, 2020 at 15:50) (Below Threshold)
 @jbob27: Saying no one cares or gives a f*ck when obviously women are impacted by this bias in the industry is the definition of privilege.
  • 11 7
 @xxaw89xx: And I still don’t GAF. Imagine that?????
  • 5 7
 @xxaw89xx: You are hilarious! Keep it up.
  • 4 10
flag xxaw89xx (Mar 6, 2020 at 16:37) (Below Threshold)
 @chasejj: I'd rather be funny than a bad person. :-)
  • 8 2
 @xxaw89xx: life’s tough being bitter. Maybe go ride your bike?
  • 5 12
flag xxaw89xx (Mar 6, 2020 at 17:22) (Below Threshold)
 @jbob27: Nah, not bitter, I just like triggering misogynists. On and off the trails!
  • 13 0
 @xxaw89xx: sounds like a healthy, mature approach to furthering women’s rights.
  • 6 8
 @jbob27: first you mansplain what mansplaining is, now you’re telling me how to advance women’s rights? You’re great, jbob27.
  • 13 4
 @xxaw89xx: @jbob27 Knock it off you two, you're fighting like a couple women. Man up and start throwing punches.
  • 2 1
 @xxaw89xx: typical lefty rhetoric. “You don’t agree with me, so I’m morally superior”.
  • 31 6
 Chocolate?
  • 11 3
 LOL! And tell them other women already on the trails are gossiping about them. I kiiiiid, I kiiid.
  • 2 0
 I LOLed. I appreciate the sarcasm.
  • 2 0
 Seriously though, being able to justify eating whatever I want for the sake of calories on long rides is the best!!!
  • 30 11
 Kudos to pinkbike and it's female staff for your efforts in making things more equal! This is a great way to kick off international women's day. As a shop, we look forward to having more women in the industry and as customers in the shop.

Are there any female mechanics in the Calgary area looking for work?
  • 4 2
 you cant hire someone because they are a girl. Just hire the best mechanic you can find in the area, maybe they are LGBTQ?
  • 28 5
 Force them?
  • 10 27
flag Haroldhotdog456 (Mar 6, 2020 at 10:12) (Below Threshold)
 Their body their choice! You are a prime example of the patriarchy trying to force women to do things for your own sense of equality! Pig! Grab your pussy hats, girls! We're sitting this one out
  • 17 0
 I think the reason some folks are having a difficult time with this article is that the article insinuates that women aren't welcome to join the family of people who like to ride, work on, design, build, retrofit, drool over, and overall live BIKES. I started working in the bike industry in 1987 at the age of 14.

I worked at 4 different high end shops and was a bike messenger in Chicago for years. I then moved onto driving the race support semi truck for SRAM and wrenching on race bikes in the 90s. In each and every job I had I worked alongside women. Some of these women were working for a paycheck in an industry they liked, but didn't necessarily want to retire in. Some of these women were talented and ballsy bike messengers. Some of these women quit higher paying jobs to work at a shop and learn to be a mechanic. One woman I knew well paid to go to Barnett Bicycle because she wanted to fast track her experience in a field she was so enthralled with. Lots of gals bought mountain bikes in those pioneer days and traveled in cars full of dudes to go shred singletrack for their first time. At SRAM there were many women engineers and technical writers. They were some of the most stoked SRAM employees that traveled to the NORBA and GRUNDIG races. Their enthusiasm trumped that of many of their male engineer counterparts.

Moral of the story:
1. Women can, have been, and will always be born with or easily initiated into bicycle stoke and talent.
2. NONE of the MANY women I have had the pleasure of working with were ever discouraged from joining our "manly" bike world. Garsh, what kind of dude would be a prick about hanging out with women who are interested in bikes?
  • 4 7
 @nordicMT: In regards to Moral #2: the incredibly insecure ones.
  • 21 6
 Give them a chance.

Sounds simple, but I’m serious.
There are eager women who are really driven to break into industry positions.
They aren’t always going to come from a background where they’ve worked in the industry for years and years but they have acquired the necessary skills through other jobs.
It’s that time old catch 22 of ‘We want experience in the industry’ but it’s impossible to get the experience.

So, give them a chance. Invest in them a little bit. It’ll pay off.
  • 20 3
 What happend to pinkbike? E-Mtb and this SJW crap?
  • 4 14
flag monsterville (Mar 6, 2020 at 18:30) (Below Threshold)
 oK bOoMeR
  • 14 2
 It shouldn't have anything to do with gender.

If 100 people apply for 10 jobs and the the best 10 people are females hire them if the top 10 candidates are men hire the men

If 5 apply out of the hundred and 3 of them are in the top 10 hire 3 and the next best 7 candidates.

Don't close the gates at any level, whether that's industry education or promotions selection, and hire the best person for the job, whether male or female.

Then don't push for a 50/50 split on gender as you'll have the best people in the industry
  • 13 0
 Maybe first work to determine how much INTEREST in working in the bicycle industry there is within the female population, then set the expectations bar. That'll help out quite a bit in the results column.
  • 15 1
 Easy. Just let women know the industry exists and it's full of happy men living out their dreams and having fun. They will soon be turning up to put an end to that...
  • 2 1
 If by, “happy men living out their dreams” you mean endlessly staring at excel spreadsheets while watching Brendan semenuk 100 episodes and wondering if you will make as much as most kids coming straight out of college then yes, I’ve loved someone’s dream
  • 13 1
 Oh gods in perdition, one of the anon lady's comments was LITERALLY "ignore qualifications and hire the diversity checkbox" and this is why I do not in any way take this seriously.

Merit >>>>>>> Diversity
  • 17 4
 Q: "Burning Question: How Do We Get More Women To Work in the Bike Industry?"

A: Make sure they don't see the comment section of a Pinkbike article involving women.
  • 11 0
 The real question for me (and honestly I am not trolling) is why we need more women in the bike industry? I mean is really a problem here? Some kind of secret conspiracy for not let women in or discourage them? AFAIK there isn't but I am totally open to ear some other perspective
  • 7 0
 I had the same question.

There's a colossal, logical difference between "we need to approximate gender equilibrium in our industry" compared to "we need to reduce gender exclusivism in our sport". I see and hear the latter, but I'm not clear on why the former is going to solve for this issue.
  • 17 5
 Click bait article for sure. Seems to me like Sarah saw the articles about sram and more women, saw the butt load of comments, then wrote this. Typical 2020 journalism. Got the comments tho
  • 5 11
flag ravenra (Mar 6, 2020 at 17:11) (Below Threshold)
 Nope, but thanks. Sara reached out long ago asking for perspective and a comment for her story. It's trolls like you that feed this BS.
  • 2 1
 The next step is to eliminate the comments section like most news websites.
  • 11 1
 The opportunities are there and open equally to men and women. Its not an industry problem, its an interest problem. Action sports have always been dominate by men. There have been very limited number of women to truly pioneer the sport and compete at the same level most notably Rachel Atherton, Sarah Burke, Jolene Van Vugt. Go to your local park, and ask yourself why there are more men riding then women, this should answer the same questions as to why the industry is male dominated.
  • 12 0
 Women are just as capable as men to go into bike industry majors like engineering. The real question is why are they not going into those fields?
  • 16 6
 The whining by women is so tired and off-putting. How about hiring the best person for the job whether they're male, female, attack helicopter, green, blue, white, black, purple or any other combination. Quotas ruin everything and discriminate. Stop whining like a failed presidential candidate.
  • 11 0
 IMO.... I have been riding heavily for the last 4+ years and I see more and more women riding year over year. I think whatever's happening is working.
  • 19 6
 same way we get more dudes working at victoria's secret
  • 15 3
 Women are already used to making less money. they should love the bike industry then.
  • 6 0
 LOLOLOLOLOL
  • 11 2
 How do we get more People of Color in the Bike Industry? No one is asking that question. Hire more women and POC, so idividuals who love to ride there bikes can possibly make a living doing it.
  • 6 0
 YEAH BRO. I'm always the only asian at the bike park lmfao
  • 12 7
 How do we get more white people into Rap music...
  • 3 4
 @WAKIdesigns: I think you're living under a rock
  • 12 0
 Employ the best person for the job.
  • 9 1
 Regarding the recurring argument of difference in interests as an explanation for the current situation, here are my humble two cents:

- There are definately differences in interests between men and women. The real question would mostly be: is this due to biological differences, envrionmnental/cultural ones or a mix of both?

- This is important, because it means the difference between "forcing" something onto someone (as in, for instance, forcing women to like mountain biking) which can never change (biology) or trying to "interest" someone into doing something (for instance, encouraging women to join the sport with women specific marketing and events).

- Now, to my knowledge, there is no clear research on the explanations for why there is a difference in interest between the two sexes towards mountain biking.

- However, one can readily observe that there is a change in interest over time (on average, it seems more and more women ride) but also depending on geography (the example of the Pemberton riding association in this article would be an example).

- Considering that the women living in different areas are very much likely to be biologically identical (on average), this would suggest that environmnetal/cultural factors do play a factor into the question of interest towards the sport. To what degree, we don't know.

- The fact that a community like Pemberton reached a ratio of 50/50% suggests that this is a realistic % for communities similar to Pemberton (same ratio of male/female inhabitants, economic condition, etc.)

Therefore, it seems reductive and overly simplistic to state that (presumably biological) interests can explain the difference we observe. Societal dynamics can seldom be explained in a single sentence.
  • 1 0
 There are mountains of research to support biological reasons (not pure determinism, don't get me wrong).

This would get you more than started.

www.amazon.com/Human-Diversity-Biology-Gender-Class/dp/1538744015
  • 1 0
 @Adamrideshisbike: I have not claimed the opposite, as you seem to suggest, and have read quite a bit of content on the issue.

There is indeed sound research that has, and is still, conducted to study the differences between male and female biological traits and their extent. That being said, I doubt it can go as far as explaining the very specific different makeups of female and male riders accross the world.

While there is ample material that does heavily suggest biological differences between men and women, the research on the degree to which that has an impact is very much not there yet. It is quite hard to clearly identify and differenciate environmental and biological differences.

Again, considering that some places such as Pemberton do reach 50/50 male to female ratio (or Something close to it), this would suggest that it is indeed an "achievable" "goal". This would suggest that biological differences between men and women are a bad predictor of interest for the sport. Unless, of course, there is a very agressive culture around Pemberton that encourages women more than men to partake in mountain biking.

I will, however, seek out whether or not recent advances in the field have reached the granular level at which we can confidently explain sports' preferences of men and women in relation to their biological differences. If you do have a source regarding that, I would gladly read it. I am assuming that M. Murray does not go into such détails into his book (I will also wait on the peer review, as some, but not all, of his previous work had been shoddy at best).

Cheers!
  • 1 0
 @JackCD: Hi Jack. Well, I'm glad we are starting from the same base of knowledge. I tend to imagine a lot of people are arguing from the blank slate position.

I guess, I'm more comfortable inferring from the research than you are. How could you ever fully figure out what is environment and what is biology? Obviously you can't, it's never going to get down to the granular level. Humans are too messy. You don't think that any inference can be made from more general research of risk tolerance? Research that shows men are more interested in things (i think gear snobbery plays a big part in mountain biking, simliar to how modifying cars is a very male-dominated hobby)?

I get that viewing this as a environmental problem empowers us to make changes as opposed to the fatalistic biological view. I'm happy that people are seeking to make changes for the better. I just think that by completely ignoring biology (not saying you do this, but many do), we end up chasing boogie men that don't exist.

Another aspect worth considering is, what is happening at the grassroots and what is happening at the pro level. A lot of this article seems to deal with problems we see in the media and then imposing that onto the whole sport. If we are getting closer to 50:50 at the grassroots, that is amazing and awesome for our sport. But, I think we tend to focus on what the pros are doing (men, men, men and a few women). Pros are not normal human beings. They are the outliers. And we know from the research that at the extremes, men are over-represented. I think people use the pros as a data point and then extend this over the whole sport, where is really only applies to pros and should be viewed as such.

Respectfully, I think you put a bit too much emphasis on this Pemberton data point. Personally, I help to run my local trail building association. We sell individual memberships and then for barely more, we see family memberships. So instead of Pete signing himself up, he buys a family membership and includes his partner and daughters. If we wanted to publish your gender split in memberships (and there is lots of incentive to do this in 2020), it would look pretty equal due to all the family memberships. But if you were to ever show up at a build, you would see 5:1 men to women at a build.

Anyway, I like talking about stuff like this. Thanks for the reply.
  • 8 1
 My take on the basic question is that you shouldn't be actively trying to increase the numbers of women in a sport, but making sure all people get the same access to the sport so that those that love it won't have any barriers to pursuing their passion. I say this as a guy raised by a single mother and father of two young girls. If there are women who feel held back in MTB, let's make sure there are no barriers we can't take down, but that should be the extent of it. Let's not define arbitrary quotas for gender involvement in a sport. Let's make the goal to not even address gender in sport.
  • 12 1
 My wife went mountain biking with me................once.
  • 11 0
 Hire based on ability not gender or race. This is foolish PCBS.
  • 10 1
 Equality of outcome is fascist at worst and misguided at best. Equality of opportunity is what is important and I don't see any real barriers to entry, just perceived ones.
  • 10 4
 Shout out to all the other rad women in this article, and those not quoted. There are lots of amazing, passionate women in the MTB industry - and also lots on the road and gravel side, just maybe not quite within the PB audience of this article. Like many others said above: to those looking for help, advice, mentorship (from a Canadian perspective) - hit me up! Would love something productive to come out of the shit show of comment section.
  • 9 1
 How many Asian women/girls are working in Chinese sweatshops sewing up TLD/Fox shorts? Are we only counting the cool jobs that has exposure in it?
  • 5 0
 Their smart and realize they don't want to live that "bike life" for their most productive working years, and get jobs that allow them to be financially responsible and support a family. Then spend the money they make from that rewarding well paying job they have from getting a good education on family bike trips.

Man, I miss that bike life...
  • 8 3
 I just scrolled straight to the comments section without reading any of those very lengthy paragraphs in the article to say:
If women want to be involved, they will be. If the culture of a particular "sport/scene/industry" doesn't lend itself to female interests, they'll build their own variation of that "sport/scene/industry" or they simply just aren't interested and nobody has to accommodate their passage into it.

With that being said, I would say the #1 driving force for a female based culture within the industry would be independently owned businesses that women start up, whether that is a bike shop or a component brand or even a bike brand, that is where it begins. When a female gears up a service or a product, other women can spot it instantly because the thought, design ideas and spirit of it are organically female.

If you had a half dozen female owned bike component companies side by side in a booth of a trade show with those of male owned companies and just let people wander into those booths(bikers and non-bikers) , you could instantly see the effect the female mindset has on marketing and product.
  • 8 0
 Because men think getting 35% off on an EP deal is equivalent to making 35% more income and women aren’t that dumb
  • 7 0
 Why don't women get into the biking industry? Because they went to school and can't accept being paid bike industry wages. Maybe, just maybe.
  • 5 0
 As a small bike shop owner, a 30 year veteran of the bicycle industry (all in shops) and a rider I have to say that there are lots and lots of women already in the industry and in shops, I deal with many of them on at least a weekly basis. There are also lots of women riders. at least 40-50 percent of most shops customers and I always see them on the trails, in my shop and at events. I am not sure why this topic always comes up. If you were looking for a solid answer though, I would say better pay and benefits.
  • 10 5
 These articles and the incessant SJW lambasting and conjecture pointed at the "EVIL WHITE MAIL" by shrill, hyper- sensitive, douchebags (male and female) is making PB unbearable to browse through. Get back to the bikes for EVERYONE'S sake !!!!.....jesus.
  • 5 0
 To be honest, mountain bike events, media, races, and mostly everything to me, generally feels like a bro fest. As a male it’s hard to feel fully welcomed sometimes, so I couldn’t imagine trying to approach mountain biking as a woman. It’s a shame, but the deeper into the sport I get, the more I just want to ride in the woods alone, to appreciate what we truly love about mountain biking.
  • 8 0
 "When I tell people that I work for Pinkbike, I often get raised eyebrows." - the very first sentence ffs
  • 3 1
 That probably fallout from that toxic mushbrain Amanda Batty that got fired a few years ago in a death burst of buzz words like "sexist" "rape culture" and whatever else she threw a tantrum about when she didn't get her way.
  • 10 2
 Burning Question: What will happen to mountain biking if you don't?
  • 4 0
 Women are a minority in stem and pretty much get to pick any opportunity they want. They work in other industries because they pay more. Earn 160k a year 10 years out of school at Boeing or earn 95k a year 10 years out of school at trek. The choice should be pretty easy.
  • 3 0
 This. With a mindset like this article, cycling industry is more likely to become a ghetto for those not fullfilling the quota requirements to get the fancy jobs.
  • 1 1
 @Redfish955: think trek pays engineers that well? Then explain their bikes?
  • 12 8
 "This week’s vitriolic comments on Pinkbike prove that many folks remain resistant to the idea of a truly equal landscape"

Great way to strawman/gaslight/misrepresent or whatever is the correct term. "I think we should treat people equally regardless of gender" is now a "vitriolic comment"
  • 11 6
 I think we can both agree that "I think we should treat people equally regardless of gender" wasn't the comment I was referring to.
  • 6 0
 @SarahLeishman: Those are the gist of most of the comments that have been made. Those are the types of comments I've made that have been called "hate filled" and "rants of an incel".

I'm doing everything I can to get my daughters to enjoy sports and exercise in general, specifically cycling. But girls just don't show the same interest as boys no matter what we try to socially engineer. The CDC did a study recently that despite having about the same enrollment in youth sports, girls drop out at six times the rate as boys by the time they reach high school.
  • 5 2
 @hamncheez: I think that it's worth taking a deeper dive into WHY girls drop out. Is it all that they aren't as interested as they grow older or are there other contributing factors?
  • 2 0
 @adybee7: absolutely... Just look at how the wider society has been "teaching" us our roles for as long as... well... It seems like forever.
  • 1 0
 @adybee7: I've read (though I can't remember where now) that girls have a higher drop out rate because of a combination of puberty arriving earlier and more conspicuously in females than males, the insecurity and self-consciousness that teenhood brings, and the desire to fit into social norms of what it means to be female.
  • 12 1
 @hamncheez: facts don't matter to the woke. Only that you cave to their demands. Make no mistake , this article has no factual basis. Women are not anything but welcome but ride in small fractions to the numbers of men. It is what it is but that doesn't stop the professional victims from trying to stir up outrage for clicks on the interwebs. Pinkbike is riding a thin line here as lots of us don’t want woke politics to be here. Take it somewhere else or many loyal readers will go elsewhere.
  • 4 11
flag monsterville (Mar 6, 2020 at 18:26) (Below Threshold)
 @chasejj: lol bye
  • 11 3
 how do we get more one armed dwarfs in the bike industry?
  • 2 0
 Easy. Cut one arm off those that have two arms.
  • 8 1
 working in the bike industry sucks. women are better off avoiding it. So are men.
  • 16 9
 I totally agree, we need to hire more Monster Energy Girls for bicycle events.
  • 3 1
 And whar happened to the f1 grid girls? Interesting how they all lost an ez job bc some others thought they shouldnt have that job. Whoops
  • 2 1
 @jrocksdh: that was a beauty of a situation. Feminists got rid of grid girls because they thought they were being objectified and the fastest and biggest complaints came from the grid girls who had lost their jobs.
  • 3 1
 @iamamodel: it’s such a beautiful example of leftist contradiction. ‘My body my choice‘, unless you want to get paid to look good. They champion the half naked slut walk nonsense then tell other women they can’t stand around in spandex at a sporting event.
  • 8 1
 How do we get more women to work in the bike industry?

APPLY! for crying out loud.
  • 6 2
 Lacy Kemp stated "The biggest issue for women in the bike industry is that we're an issue at all. It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management. It shouldn't be hard.....But these are all issues and they're real." It is curious why Sarah chose to lead off her article with such a meaningless series of unsupported statements. Lacy seems to think that for other-than-her-gender people looking for jobs, finding a job is easy. She implies that it is especially hard for a woman to find a job, and this is simply not true, and it hasn't been true for a very long time.
  • 4 0
 Ok, the link to YouTube is not allowed...
As Rounds Rousey said, the money you get paid should be based on the money you bring in. Same goes for the "ambassador" positions, the more exposure you can assure to a brand the more likely they will get in touch with you. Now the behind the scene e.g., marketing, building, and engineering, that shoul go to "the best person for the job". I want to ride the best bike and I don't care who designed it or built it or sold it to me. Does it happen to have a XX chromosome or a XY (or now, I between) I dont care give me a rocket to fly. Be the best, get the job. Work your ass off, prove you're worth your salt. Playing the victim does not help. BTW, of all PB presenters my favorite is Christina and by a freaking mile! She's cool, she know her stuff and she has the best attitude without pushing on her looks. Well done!
  • 5 1
 Why isn't there more white males playing in the NFL and NBA? Why aren't there female NFL coaches? Why hasn't this country elected a female president? These are all questions I don't get up in the morning and worry about. Who cares? What I do know is all my mountain bikes are ready to ride and the trails don't care what color, gender or sexual orientation or lifestyle you live and either do I! I very rarely go to bike shops or drive unless its to MTB trail. I can order everything online and fix my own bikes. The military has spent thousands of hours and dollars studying coed teams. What they found is men and women think and act differently, and men don't trust women in combat situations. I personally am not a sports fan nor do I give two poops who is sponsoring who in the MTB industry, or fantasy DH or who one the last race. I want to see the latest and greatest bikes, tools and trails around the US not starting arguments on the internet about who's values and beliefs are being attacked. Go eat some worms and dirt, get drunk, get laid ride your bike you will be alright.
  • 9 2
 Real housewives of the north shore
  • 4 3
 Canadian housewives apologizing all day?
"Sorry. You guy first."
"Yeah, sorry about that."

and....SCENE!
  • 25 20
 I swear, if they keep this shit up, I am done. I will go elsewhere to read about bike parts. KEEP THE POLITICAL/ SJW CRAP OUT OF PINKBIKE!!!!
  • 9 12
 @garrisond5:

"Bye, Felicia" Facepalm
  • 2 2
 @Dropthedebt: chasing off more women.

Felicia, please stick around.
  • 1 2
 @Grosey: I guess the reference is lost on some people. Could it have been put better? Quite possible and if your offended... Sorry tup
  • 2 1
 Wow... Even making an apology for what was a misjudged and poorly made comment gets downvoted...
  • 15 12
 Oh my god the horse is dead already stop beating it more! I've worked in the mechanical industry for a majority of my life. I have yet to see a female mechanic that didn't lack mechanical aptitude, talent and skills, and not to mention upper body strength to break torque and lift heavy items. I avoid women in the work place and keep my mouth shut due to fear and intimidation and being fired some crap women complain about.
  • 8 7
 Were you born with a wrench in your hand knowing how to do everything right off the bat? Have you never made a mistake in your life or not known how to do something and had to learn from someone? Gosh, must be so hard to be so smart that you never had to learn how to do something.
  • 2 1
 Comment deleted in 3, 2, 1....
  • 2 1
 @ridebikesyall: learned skill does not ever, ever, ever, ever replace physical ability.
  • 3 2
 @togood2die: I’m not really sure what you’re trying to argue here. If I want to learn to be a mechanic should I just not bother because I might not have the same upper body strength as a dude? Shit, guess I should return all those tools I just bought and stop wrenching on my bikes in my spare time.
  • 2 1
 Somehow I have a feeling they appreciate your silence. Poor thing
  • 1 0
 @togood2die: ha. Well that doesn’t make sense even though you really, really, really, really committed to not making sense
  • 1 1
 @ridebikesyall: Ofcourse you can make the choice yourself if you want to become a mechanic or not.
But don't get mad when people won't hire you because of your lack of strength.
  • 2 1
 @ridebikesyall: why yes I was I had my own tool box and tools at the age of six. Furthermore in the mechanical industry I work in there has been a lot of women come through the doors, but eventually move on and don't last including a lot of males that lack skills. My point is quit trying to hard sale me on we need more women on MTB. That's like saying we need more men in the Miss America Pageant there is inequality in all things dosen't mean it's bad or wrong.
  • 2 1
 @ridebikesyall: I have had to trained males who want to be a mechanic, but just lack skills and a mechanical aptitude and generally sucked at it. I would love to been a professional golfer but it didn't work out for me. How come women don't compete in the Red Bull rampage with men? Same reason I don't it's not for me.
  • 1 0
 @thoe: If time equates to knowledge or even experience, grammar and weak analogy wouldn’t be an issue for most adults. Plenty of people hack away for years and remain dangerously inept. The worst hacks I’ve encountered have been men with low IQ but plenty of strength, endurance, and willingness to perform impressive feats such as threading the wrong pedal all the way.
  • 1 0
 @emptybe-er: exactly my point quite forcing the universe to change some people men or women just don't want to ride MTB, or be mechanics, cops, doctors, Victoria Secret models........
  • 3 0
 I feel like the industry is trying to force this too much. The involvement of women in the sport is growing every year, so why try and force it anymore? As long as we as a community stay as inclusive and as nice as we always have been, there will be no issue. I'm not saying we shouldn't be accommodating, but there is no reason to try and force this, if women want to be involved in the sport, they want to be involved in the sport, and if they don't, they don't.
  • 8 1
 Burning question: why should we?
  • 8 2
 Could Pinkbike have less SJW bs please. We're here for bikes not a college gender studies lecture!
  • 5 2
 Maybe just maybe there are significantly more men who want to work in the industry as such more men work in the industry. No big deal with nurses, dental hygienists, psychologists, or a plethora of many other industries that are about 90 percent women. It is ok that there are industries dominated by men, just as there are industries dominated by women.
  • 3 0
 I want to know how many women are applying to work in the industry. If women are applying in the same numbers as men and aren’t getting hired, something is wrong. Something tells me lots of guys apply to work in the cycling industry and fewer women do. But it’s just a hunch
  • 3 0
 All I want to know is do employee demographics match applicant demographics? If women are applying for jobs and not getting them, that’s pretty shitty. But I would level to guess that a million men apply for every good paying job in the bike industry.
  • 4 0
 "the emotional component of mountain biking"

A stylish scrub, under a forest canopy in perfect loam, does bring a tear to my eye...
  • 2 0
 Funny thing about that, my wife rides and races regularly. But! she doesnt wanna work in the bike industry cuz the pay is crap compared to her desk job, and its not that women get paid less, same reason I dont work in the bike industry, my current job pays way more!
  • 2 0
 I think it ultimately come back to getting more women into riding. I mean what is it like 10% women at your local trailhead? If you aren't into biking why would you take a job in an industry that pays less than market wages? I am in a boys club profession. I see the struggles and crap women have to deal with, but the flip side there is a lot of resources and opportunities too. The women I graduated with seem to have either washed out of the profession entirely or done extremely well. In fact I know one large company that requires masters degrees for the most part but know several women that just have their bachelors and work there.
  • 4 2
 To those questioning why should a company choose diversity over the candidate with the best credentials. Research has shown that diversity leads to better product, better ideas, and a more profitable company. Obviously no one is suggesting that it is smart to hire unqualified people, just that having a company of the best qualified people and no diversity has been shown to be out performed by qualified people that have diversity.
  • 3 1
 With the advent of NICA in North America, we are going to have a surge of smart young women who are very interested in working for an outdoor company, especially mountain biking. NICAs GRIT is bringing those young women to the market and they can definitely ride.
  • 3 0
 This is true, I saw a niche after my husband and I got tired of all the heavy kids bikes and our son out riding the heavy bike shop brand kids bikes. I ultimately created my own job (and a bike company) in the industry. It's taken 5 years of 80+ hour weeks, but hard work has allowed us to purchase real estate, create our own hours, and travel the world with our family. www.trailcraftcycles.com check it out! - Ginger
  • 1 0
 @TrailcraftCycles: I had a look through your site last night and I commend everything your doing. Best wishes for the future.
  • 3 1
 Honestly I would have thought there would be more Women in the Bike Industry than Men.... Women are used to being underpaid, they seem to really thrive in environments that don't appreciate their real value; I mean if that doesn't perfectly describe the Bike Biz I don't know what does. Funny not funny.
  • 8 2
 Speaking on behalf of all men who like woman, we have been trying to
  • 2 0
 I'm vaguely staggered the manufacturers don't put more effort into getting more women out there riding - it's such a large amount of potential customers, even if they don't care about equality they do care about money...
My 9 year old daughter loves riding her bike, to the point of not complaining when morzine spat her out battered bruised and bleeding (good or bad parenting, you decide). But I do suspect that when she realises that her friends prefer BTS to MTB, she'll give up :-(
  • 2 0
 Or maybe she’ll just make some new friends. She can have more than one friend group and hobby. Smile
  • 7 1
 Thw potential MTB chicks are riding Horses.
  • 7 5
 Huge high-5's to all the women in this article - each and every one of them is amazing, inspiring, and badass. Thank you Pinkbike for giving them space to have their voices heard.

Regarding the question posed of "how do we get more women to work in the bike industry" - this is something I've talked to my (women) friends about a lot - and the three things that come up the most are opportunities, mentorship, and representation. Like Anonymous said "pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much." A woman might bring something new to the table that wasn't thought of before even if their resume isn't as full as another applicant. As Angi said, mentor women who are in the industry. Having someone show you the ropes can make all the difference. And lastly, representation. It is hard to imagine being a mechanic, marketing director, freeride champion, or shop rat if you never see another woman doing that. As Katie said, "If there’s anything that Formation taught us is that there’s a pool of women capable riding at an elite level and that there’s an audience craving to see it."
  • 1 0
 Right on!!

"Regarding the question posed of "how do we get more women to work in the bike industry" - this is something I've talked to my (women) friends about a lot - and the three things that come up the most are opportunities, mentorship, and representation. Like Anonymous said "pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much."
  • 5 0
 MILLION DOLLAR ANSWER: Because women are generally less interested in the sport compared to men. You can venmo the money.
  • 2 0
 it's actually very simple. most women want real jobs that pay well. the mtb bike industry is filled with dudes who want a sports lifestyle job and will accept a shit one with shit pay that no self respecting woman would do. most the guys i know have wives who work harder, have better jobs and make more than them with only a few exceptions.
  • 2 0
 Here's a thought, how about let's just hire the best, most qualified person for the job, compensate them fairly no matter what their gender is and let's get rid of the glass ceiling that is out there in so many professions, a fair equal playing field for all. I am however not in favour of lowering standards to allow this to happen, this is life and not everyone gets a ribbon.
  • 12 7
 Can women go to school and then apply for these jobs?
  • 2 0
 Your insight is profound
  • 1 0
 Over the 20+ years of riding, I've riding with countless women and even worked with one at a bike shop in the early 2000's. In the past 5ish years our local female NICA team has dominated the state comps and our local club has been hosting "Ladies Only" weekend ride clinics that get sold out in a day. I don't see the scales tipped much in my area, but I guess we just have more rad ladies?
  • 1 0
 I can see there is less interest in mountain biking from females, there is some obvious strong cultural force associating more some values to the male representation. What can we do? First, we can agree than more diverse people on the trail is good for the sport (from the economic dynamic to the cultural aspect), the bigger a community is, the stringer it is and the more opportunities. Second, as riders we can be more inclusing and inviting to all kind of people.Finally, the media, the marketting people can foster a more balanced representation of mountain biking so it appeals to a wider group regardless of current sport demographics.
  • 1 0
 This - "share more women's stories, introduce more women to this sport that I love." Organic, genuine, and exciting exposure from great ambassadors of the sport attracts more great ambassadors of the sport. Where do I pick up my check?
  • 8 3
 When they apply, hire em. If they show interest, inspire em.
  • 1 1
 When they apply, hire them? If you do that for everyone who applies, you’ll be out of business pretty quick.
  • 1 0
 @tobiusmaximum: How many women work in your store?
  • 1 0
 @tobiusmaximum: When I started in the bike industry I knew 2 things: righty tighty, lefty loosy. ( except for most BB shells and all pedals ) 35 years later, after working in sweat shop bike stores, boutique bike shops and currently at a manufacturer I can honestly tell you that if the first store that hired me didn't see promise in me, I would have been heartbroken. Because the first store I applied to didn't hire me because I'm black ( I learned this a decade later from the shop guys that worked there ). So yeah, if they apply to work at a thing, it's because they want to do said thing. Would you apply to a job that you were unable to do? Don't be simple, your attitude is telling.
  • 1 1
 @enduroelite: lol. You condescending ****. What happens if ten people apply? Hire them all?

As for ‘attitude is telling’, I learned a lot about you when you said ‘I can honestly tell you that if the first store that hired me didn’t see promise in me, I would have been heartbroken’.

Can’t really believe that you’re the one who said ‘if they apply, hire them’, yet I’m the one who is ‘simple’.

And just for your info, plenty of people apply for jobs they aren’t qualified to do. Apparently even you did it!
  • 1 0
 @tobiusmaximum: Who exactly was being condescending to you? What battles do you fight from within simply because of your outward appearance? Do people look at you as though you aren't good enough to complete the task even though you know you are? Does it happen to you on a daily basis? Are you judged before you can prove yourself? No one was here to hurt you feelings. The article is about how to get more women to work in the cycling industry, I simply said, " when they apply, hire them". This obviously, and unknowingly to me hurt your feelings. Are you going to wait for an apology, or berate me with more nonsense?
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: you can keep waffling bollocks all day if you like. the simple fact is your black and white solution simply doesn't work in the real world. i know you want to think it does, but here are the facts: if only one person applies for a job, you have no choice, you have to hire that person. but if five people apply, you cannot 'hire them, when they apply', you have to choose one. (presumably on merit. not on them being a woman.)

none of this was necessary, had you had a grasp of basic math. and don't try to make this about feelings, especially after you tried to play the innocent about being a condescending ****.
  • 9 4
 Buring question: How to get more straight men into world of women fashion.
  • 1 0
 The Bicycling Industry can start by making bicycling affordable again! It has become a niche market. Their basis was new tooling to justify higher pricing to push to consumers led us to today, the dwindling market! If anyone observed the pictures in PB posts, most tooling used were from the 26" era and still used today....new software program, change of cutting bit...or heck for most just a turn of a knob, push button to accommodate new size or lower, higher wattage for different metal welding was really all it took!
  • 7 3
 Pay them more money than the men... there... solved your recruiting problem for you.
  • 8 1
 Can I identify as a woman to get more money then?
  • 5 4
 I left the bike industry in 2013 and racing in 2016. One simple reason for that (and ladies, I hope this resonates): Life is too short to try and save everyone that needs saving. It’s about time we stopped being asked to solve problems we didn’t create. The men who dominate the industry need to do some serious self-reflection to understand what biases they still hold and determine what they still don’t understand. If there is an actual willingness to change, things will change through considerate reflection. This is the core of how to identify the root of any problem - it starts within the belly of the beast.

For the women in the industry, stop feeling like the responsibility is yours to change what’s broken about the bike industry. To Lacy’s point, the issue is that women are still being viewed as the issue at all. Life is short and the world is FULL of opportunities with the right work ethic. There are plenty of industries out there that are fulfilling and already treat women equally. If you really do care that much about the bike industry, leave it and learn how to make it better from a new perspective. If you’re like me, you’ll realize other passions you have, develop new skills, have a much more flexible work schedule, and make enough money to support your love of bikes on your own terms. Nothing more empowering than fixing what doesn’t work for YOU, not anyone else. Lead by example.
If leaving entirely isn’t an option, strategize on your side hustle. Make yourself first. Let that attract new waves of other empowered women to simply turn the whole damn thing over on its side. Just MAYBE through these processes of leadership and reflection, the whole thing will meet in the middle, better than ever.
  • 3 1
 I left as well. I like my paycheck and the upper management position I currently hold.
  • 19 13
 Dildo seats
  • 1 1
 Comment of the day. There's another demo that would entice as well.
  • 2 0
 @chasejj: enduro racers? Agree.
  • 1 0
 @Grosey: LOL????
  • 6 3
 Just don’t tell her that her frame design is sexy or you will get attacked by the me2 movement and arrested for sexual harassment!!!!
  • 3 8
flag emptybe-er (Mar 6, 2020 at 18:27) (Below Threshold)
 Why do certain guys feel obligated to share unsolicited approval by blurting out “wow she sure is sexy” like completely desperate, delusional creepers? Because these guys are so depraved and have such tacky taste that they’d feel instantly gratified and ego-wanked if they got this kind of attention. But we don’t see those comments coming from women, not because they don’t find men attractive, but because they aren’t stupid and ignorant. I think therein lies part if the problem, failure to empathize
  • 6 5
 Sarah I thought this was very good and timely article, and appreciate the perspective as the husband and father of female riders. I am disappointed but not surprised by the comment section, but it was to be expected. I for one don't really think it has to be an issue of choosing women over men, or vice versa. We need to get more women in to riding because it is great and great for us. As we do this we will need more women in the industry to ensure we are meeting the needs of women riders, and to synergize creatively to elevate products to the next level. Are there barriers? Clearly there are because the experts quoted in the article say, there are. Can they be overcome? You bet and many provided pathways to do so. Are there always going to be jackass trolls in the PB Comment section? Yeah, but I'm convinced most of them are road bikersWink
  • 1 0
 "Clearly there are because the experts quoted in the article say, there are" LMAO
  • 2 1
 Working in this industry since more than 10 years, I think the main reason for the gender disbalance is a lack of opportunities to hire them. For a big part of jobs in the industry it is important to be a rider. Unfortunately the number of female riders is still far below 50% in many parts of the world. But it is better than in engineering. During my studies, less than 10% of students were female. And I see this clearly reflected when looking at gender equality through different departments in the companies I worked for. The less being an engineer and being a rider is a requirement for the job, the more women you will see. From close to zero in engineering to almost equal numbers in sales or marketing to more women in logistics, purchasing, finance or HR. Changing this means getting more women into the sport and more women getting into studying engineering. Should we encourage that? I think for sure. What if they choose other sports or studies despite the best efforts to get them in? I think that is fine too.
I think there are other groups of people that are much more underrepresented, to a shocking degree. I can honestly not remember meeting someone of the black community working in the industry. Not a single one within probably thousands of people I met. And this is probably much less so by choice than by unequal opportunities. It also seems to be difficult place to be for gay men as I am only aware of two in the industry, but then that is something that is not as obvious when meeting people.
  • 2 1
 Honestly I think everyone should do work regarding their skills. To me it simply doesn't matter. People who think that there should be more women in specific industries are the problem. The main thing is not seeing a difference. And for my part, I don't! Super chill women in a bike shop selling me a new bike? Perfectly fine as long as she's able to answer my questions and has expertise. Super chill dude in a bike shop selling me a new bike? Perfectly fine as long as he's able to answer my questions and has expertise.????
  • 1 0
 We see all these articles about how to get more women racing.. Now, how to to get more women into the industry... Just start by getting more women riding bikes. Even better if you get them involved while they are young... NICA is doing a great job of this. Then maybe as they grow up and find a career path they want to follow, some may choose the bike industry. Most people are in this industry out of passion, and that passion starts with riding a bike.
  • 1 0
 Pardon me if I’m repeating what someone may have already said (I didn’t read ALL the comments). I see this topic being interpreted 2 different ways. Men are saying “women can do whatever they want. The numbers are, what they are”. Women seem to interpreting this as “How do we stop women from feeling unwanted or discouraged from this industry”. I might be living in a bubble because the number of female riders in the Bow valley is pretty high. Not only are there a lot of female riders, they’re fitness and technical ability is very high and respected by all.

My wife and I encourage our daughter to try everything (same way we treat our son). She plays a few team and individual sports, but decided she was not crazy about mountain biking. She’ll come for the odd ride but that’s all she wants to do. We would certainly never force her to ride more just so female riders in the valley can keep they’re numbers up.
  • 2 0
 I genuinely believe in 20 years time we will not be having this type of conversation within the sport. MTB is still a young-ish sport & has been built from a predominantly male perspective. If we can have a more inclusive outlook, with different ethnic & cultural groups as well, the future will look very different. 2 cents
  • 2 1
 Thanks to Sarah Moore for sharing this article and a huge shout out to all the women leading the way and demonstrating our ability to shred... on the bike, behind the keyboard, with a wrench, and in management. Keep setting the goals high and the jumps higher! Smile
  • 2 1
 I think the focus is wrong! To all women who want to be in the industry, I think all men or most are very accepting of women in the bike industry. We don't care! The main problem is simple you can't try to recruit people who don't like bikes, men or women! Simply put, the percentage of men who get excite about a bike is alarmingly differently than that of women. I tried to get my wife into bikes years ago buying her a nice trail bike, she rode it about 10 times! ahhahhahahaa Yes, more women please! But don't force people! In life, no matter your status or ranking, you always have control over one person... Yourself! Always do as you like and never compromise your feelings for the rules of others!
  • 1 0
 The bike industry is a big collection of some of the worst most vapid and narcissistic reptilians disguised as humans known to the human race. I would encourage fewer people to work within it. Maybe even nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
  • 1 0
 Here's a different perspective from a woman and not a very popular one. When I ride MTB, out on the trail, I'm not thinking gender. I'm leaving all my issues behind, enjoying trail, peace and quiet and working on my skills. I'm not trying to solve social injustice or save the planet, I'm working on myself. So when I show up to mtb events or work with a MTB group and I'm pigeon-holed into this elusive, exclusive "women's group" it irritates me. What if I told you I MTB to escape THIS VERY THING. If I wanted to join a bunch of judgemental type-A queen bees who need to class, rank and rate your style or determine if you're a "bad feminist" 'cause you aren't constantly pushing this agenda-- I'd literally join ANY OTHER WOMEN'S GROUP or a team sport. I MTB to avoid all this. Maybe it's the women in these groups that slow the growth? You want a bunch of uber-competitive ladies hopped up on the adrinaline to "hangout" together? There's gonna be some cutthroat cattiness. Middle school all over again. I have never come away from a woman's group event feeling like it was a successful, friendly exchange. I'd rather deal with all the sexist male riders than one shitty MTB gal who pretends to be your bestie (til you take her segment.) Don't get it twisted; it's not effing kumbaya as they'd like you to believe.
  • 1 0
 As a man who has worked in the industry for over 2 decades, I fully support the sentiments that each of these women have stated here and feel that we should work toward doing all of them. With that said, I believe Julia Montague's call for a women's mentorship program is the most straightforwardly implementable and has the best chance of moving the needle the furthest in the real world. It's a huge piece of low-hanging fruit that the industry should pick immediately. The others will take much longer to pull off. We should move forward with them, but with a pragmatic approach to their actual effectiveness and with a realistic timeline for when these investments will pay off for everyone. We're all in this together. If we take that team approach that Sara Jarrell is encouraging, that's the attitude that will get us to where we need to be as a sport and an industry.
  • 7 4
 Why don’t you ask your mother? She’s in the kitchen making me breakfast.
  • 7 7
 The worst of it:

I worked in the bike industry for many, many years. One manager told me when I was hired, "How are you going to fit in? You don't drink [alcohol]." I was also told, "We hired a woman for this territory before and she slept with all of the bike shop owners... " Just two of the most striking things I was told when interviewing or being hired. I also represented a line of women's bikes that were basically just a man's take on what women want. Nothing based in reality.

My hope is that things have changed since then. I have largely been out of the industry for the past 5 years. Mostly because I wanted to make a decent living (the bike industry pay is low) and just buy the things I wanted and pay for my own trips around the world so I could do them on my own terms. I suppose you could also say I had become jaded and exhausted from working in an industry that operated in the past and didn't seem to be moving into the future.

I've worked for magazines, bike manufacturers, retailers. I've spun wrenches, created marketing campaigns and hosted events. I have seen almost every side of the business-- good and bad.

We're still looking for women's products, the way to market to women. Mistake.

So how do we get more women in the bike industry? The answer is women need to be in upper management. And they need to act like women, not like men. You can't change the culture of an industry with the same thinking that created that culture.

I have seen so many unqualified people put into positions they don't necessarily deserve and even many, many more highly qualified people placed in entry-level positions well below their pay grade. (This is across the board for men and for women). This is discouraging for high-quality candidates. Taking a job below your ability and for less pay than you are worth destroys your self-worth and ability to shine. Women hurt themselves in the industry. We accept that job. We peddle our sexuality. We insist on wearing mascara during races.

If companies would hire qualified, experienced women who know how to run businesses (even if they would hire qualified, experienced men who knew how to run businesses) and pay them what they are worth, more women would work in the industry. It comes down to having an empowering workplace where women are respected as intelligent leaders, not a model for a month on a calendar.

I have had a great deal of fun in the bike industry and have made many friends. I love bikes. And I often miss being around bikes all the time. I have had ups and downs. Maybe someday I will be back. If that happens, I can promise you, I will have an army of women with me.
  • 1 0
 I don't agree with everything you said (Your examples in the first paragraph in particular: I don't see how a question about your drinking habits and potential fit with a team has anything to do with you being a woman. Secondly, I've been told at least one cautionary tale by HR staff at orientation in every role I've started about men sleeping with their female staff, and not to do it, so I dont see a difference in what you were told?).
All that said, I think this is better considred perspecitive than almost all of the posts above and it should be included among them.
  • 2 0
 @SmashySmashy: They didn't want to hire a woman because the last woman they hired slept with all the bike shop owners, I wasn't clear. As for the drinking, I, of course, do not know if any men who didn't drink were hired and were told the same thing. However, it was an incredibly inappropriate thing to say regardless. This also speak to the culture not just of that company but of the bike industry especially 10-15 years ago when I was more involved. I was definitely harassed by bike shop owners at company events when heavy drinking was involved. Thanks for your comment. I have spent nearly 20 years (more if you count some of the on again off again) in the bike and outdoor industries over my lifetime.
  • 2 2
 Funnily enough I’ve been reading www.melaninbasecamp.com and they have some great in depth discussions about representation.
And after reading this article then reading the comments I can’t help but think there’s still a long way to go.
  • 4 2
 @Peskycoots: www.melaninbasecamp.com/around-the-bonfire/2019/12/8/stop-making-movies-about-white-guys-doing-cool-shit-the-sequel I dunno about that. The author of this piece just seems to be envious and bitter. The achievements of Megos are his contribution to all of humanity, to show us what is possible and redefines what we are all capable of. Honestly, reading this piece I just felt bad for the author who wrote it, that their the one limiting their own potential, and not society.
  • 3 0
 @SmashySmashy: funnily enough that’s the exact article I had in mind when I commented. I don’t disagree with you, it does come across a bit over the top, but I think there were some good points there. Primarily the point about not everyone starting from the same place, which is why we need to work at being inclusive. Some people need a leg up to be equal, which contrary to some of the reactions here, doesn’t mean you need to hold anyone else back.
  • 2 1
 @Peskycoots: I agree with the core premise- no one should be at a disadvantage because of something they have no control over, such as their race or sex. Things get a lot murkier very quickly when you start to parachute individuals from favoured groups into positions of responsibility because they are deemed to be disadvantaged in some way. I shouldn't need to convince of the immense perils of that kind of thinking.
  • 3 0
 @SmashySmashy: But asking how to get more women or minorities involved does not mean you have to parachute them into positions of responsibility? The article just asks some prominent women how they think we might be able to attract more women to the industry, and the women all replied with their personal ideas and opinions, which subsequently sparked a pretty negative comment section full of men saying shit like “dildo seats” (that’s actually a real comment in this section) and “I don’t mind if they want to ride just get on a bike duh”. Very inspiring.
  • 2 1
 @Peskycoots: There is a recurring theme among those asked for their opinion of promoting women/ mentoring women/ hiring women (even if they don't have the required skillset for the role) over other (possibly more qualified) candidates because they are female. Irrespective of that others may say or think, I have my reasonable objections to that as a viable solution to getting more women into cycling in general, and mtb specifically.
I saw the comment you mentioned, and I even gave it a thumbs up myself. Not to put women down, but because I feel a bit of good humour would go a long way in this conversation.
  • 3 1
 @SmashySmashy: I disagree, more female representation will lead to more female participation. And as for that comment; I’ve rode for years with my wife with no problems as she’s quite fierce, but now as my significantly more sensitive daughter, riding since she was 3, now 10, gets older she is intimidated by the macho posturing and “banter” at the trails. So she either needs to htfu and put up with it, or we need to change the culture around mtb so it’s no longer threatening or intimidating to women and also minorities. Guess which one would get more people out on bikes, and more specifically in my case, keep my daughter into riding with me? Not to pick on you, but thinking “dildo saddles” is funny kind of makes you part of the problem that needs fixing.
  • 3 1
 @Peskycoots: I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying that advantaging women to address a percieved inequality is fundamentally wrong, regardless of the presumpative good it will do for women. It is debatable whether female representation is even an issue, especially as they seem very focused on areas 'where the money and prestige' are. Just because they're 50% of the population does not mean they get to demand equal representation at every table, especially when they're less than 10% of the paying customers, and they spend less (on average) than the average male consumer in a particular industry- as they do in mtb. It creates a very regressive precedent (remember how bad it was when men were just giving jobs to men), and there is a high risk it will be exploited by bad actors. Or to put it another way, the ends do not justify the means.
You're descripton sounds like entirely normal male behaviour- there's nothing intimidating about a few mates having a laugh, ribbing on each other and being brash and loud- unless someone told you to think it was anything but friendly behaviour. I don't engage in it often myself,, but I figure to each their own. The reality is they're not hurting anyone.
Also, I don't think you realise how nefarious you sound; You (and I've noticed the people like you) want to impose your will on others, in order to bully them to act the way you want, based on the faulty assumption that it will benefit those who can't or won't stand up for themselves. Maybe you fail to see it, or maybe you just don't care but those people you want to 're-program' will have lost their autonomy, their capacity to think for themselves and it will be replaced with your 'better way'. And that will be society's loss. I'm willing to bet if the tables turned you wouldn't accept those same people telling you how to think, behave and live your life.
I know you feel it's the right thing to do but a) (Your daughter excepted), you can't be sure those people you're trying to help are genuinely good people, b) We all have to learn at some point that the world doesn't revolve around us and (probably most importantly) c) You can't impose your agenda on others like that. Who are you to presume you know better than other people how they should think and behave? I honestly find that perspective monstrous. You should be concerned with setting a standard to follow regarding courage, tolerance for other people and respect for their individuality. From one father of a daughter to another; Instill confidence in her, teach her to give as good as she gets, and never let her cower behind you for fear of hearing mean words.
  • 1 0
 @SmashySmashy: you’re saying “I don’t want to be told what to do” whereas what I’m trying to say is “how we are doing things may be wrong”. As usual the truth is somewhere in the middle. Good chat though bless up
  • 1 1
 @Peskycoots: This is a much bigger debate that would take a fair bit of groundwork to clarify, but yes, essentially I'm saying no one (or even the many for that fact) has the right to tell anyone how to live in a society of laws. And that laws and principles should be as broad and universal as possible. Legislating protections for special groups based on innate characteristics, or just implementing social programs to benefit those groups is not just lazy but dangerous, stupid and wrong. It's the difference between implementing a campaign to benefit an ethnic minority, and one for a socio-economic class. Any one of us could be in that socio-economic bracket, but only those born into an ethnic minority can ever be part of it (unless you're Elizabeth Warren Wink ).
  • 4 0
 I'm here for PC comments
  • 11 0
 The recent Microsoft Windows 10 update was terrible.
  • 3 1
 I would like to get into the bike industry! If I could get an article written about me, perhaps I could make it. ;-)
  • 2 0
 There you go, it's there if you want it and the door is open. If I was 35 years younger I would be running through.
  • 4 1
 Sounds like a lot of first world problems.
  • 2 0
 What about the general lack of women in adrenaline type sports? That could be it.
  • 2 0
 How can we ensure that equal numbers of men and women contract the coronavirus?
  • 3 2
 BS story.

dont force women to carry penises because equality.

f*ck the political correctness and 50/50.

Long live freedom!
  • 5 4
 Scanning through the comments and it's another clear example that to those who have known nothing but privilege, equality feels like oppression.
  • 3 3
 As a red blooded male who still has not had his nuts chopped. I will always look at women as sex objects no matter how many stupid laws you pass or keep shovel feeding me your agenda. That is all
  • 1 0
 Easy, show women how funny boys can be!

www.pinkbike.com/news/video-friday-fails-108.html

Let them decide if this looks fun or not! tup
  • 2 0
 Hailey Elise said it best!
  • 3 0
 Community
  • 1 0
 Conversations that start with "so..."
  • 3 1
 Disturbing lack on knee pads in most of these photos. Lead by example!
  • 4 8
flag xxaw89xx (Mar 6, 2020 at 15:47) (Below Threshold)
 What you fail to recognize is the disturbing lack of options for women. And believe it or not, the mens options don't work very well for our bodies.
  • 2 1
 @xxaw89xx: omg i've never heard this discussed, but i've always felt that knee pads are too loose at the knee cap if they fit my thigh, and too tight at the thigh if they fit my knee cap. Wasn't sure if it was just me! I get that not all females have thick thighs, though.
  • 2 1
 @sugaranddirt: Yes, this! I have yet to find one that fits well, mostly without sliding down too much. It's wild there are almost no options out there.
  • 2 0
 @xxaw89xx:
Firstly, i'm not a lady, so don't have the same problem exactly, but knee pads have always annoyed me till recently.

I found that unless you are wearing hardshell pads I would recommend looking at pads that only have the bottom strap. I find that the upper strap is mostly a way to get the pad to slide down. I use the sleeve style pads with a lower strap and tuck the top of the sleeve under the the cuff of my shorts liner.
  • 1 0
 @xxaw89xx: Specialized in their retul research proved there is no difference in girls bikes or boys. Its just marketing hype. Hence they abandoned female models. They just make bikes. Pads jus need size variation. My kids wear elbow pads.... because they fit... they know no different...
  • 2 0
 @fssphotography: Which is funny because Specialized were the same ones who initially pushed research in the area promoting the anthropometrical differences between men's and women's measurements and ratios, and their need for a separate line of framesets. So much for 'if you build it they will come'.
  • 5 0
 @fssphotography:
There is pretty big difference between Specialized saying that there is no statistical difference in limb length between men and women. Which I believe was the conclusion of Specialized. You are seeming to make a leap from what Specialized said to saying that women's clothing doesn't have to be shaped different than men's clothing.
  • 3 1
 Stoked on the Kelli Emmett pics.
  • 1 0
 I'd be more stoked if she had her front rotor on the correct way Eek
  • 1 3
 WHat I never see from these articles or the topic of "we need women in this industry" is anyone asking "Do women want to work in these industries?". Everyone assumes that they do. This is all built on the assumption that women want in, and can't get in, which I haven't seen (in my little bubble). @sarahmoore Honest question - When you wanted to work for pinkbike, or the bike industry, were you passed over for a man due to what's in his pants? I don't deny that in the past that this was the case, but I don't think it's the case today.
  • 1 0
 Pinkbike knows how to rile up all their teenage boys in they comments dont they?
  • 1 0
 Burning Question: How can I get into the bike industry without any other bike industry experience??
  • 9 8
 The bike industry is a horrid industry
  • 1 0
 Bc trump and corona beer!
  • 7 10
 First step is to get more women interested in/to stick with the sport in the first place. How? Perhaps stop being such macho dickheads when ever a woman decides to ride with a group of guys. All female riding groups and all female coaching groups are popular for a reason.
  • 3 2
 I agree. I don't know about other parts of the world, but a female mountain bikers are still pretty rare here in California. They just don't seem very interested in my experience.
  • 1 1
 @dlxah: What part of California are you in? I live here and I have a ton of female friends who not only ride, but shred.
  • 2 0
 @megannjunne: LA. I'm up in the valley. Rocky Peak is my go-to on the weekends, but I also do a lot of riding in Tarzana, Calabasas, Agoura, Thousand Oaks, Santa Monica, etc. I see maybe one woman for every 10+ men out riding. I honestly wish there were more of you out there.
  • 1 0
 @dlxah: looks like you need to head down to Orange County, we're everywhere!
  • 2 0
 @megannjunne: Appreciate the tip!
  • 2 2
 @dlxah: So does she!
  • 2 2
 When I have kids, I will support them riding bikes as much as possible, its up to them if they want to catch on or not.
  • 1 0
 RideOn buddy! My daughter is now 17soon and my son is 15! My son can jump and ride really good but is more into Rugby now! They both came riding with me many times as kids and they were exposed to riding and the MTB scene! However, they are free to do as they like, as parents we can only lead with examples set good paths for them to follow. If they follow or not is completely up to them! I like how you think BoneDog!
  • 1 2
 How do we get more women to work in the bike industry?

PB, you answered your own question with the 1st picture. Offer them "FREE PINKBIKE T-SHIRTS".
  • 1 0
 Whoever downvoted this sucks and probably can't even put 2 words together. This clearly shows some idiots on this website have no brains or humour at all...
  • 3 6
 If you need a reason to encourage more women in the industry: more women in the captain's chair = more women on bike seats = more total riders = more access/trails/awesome shit/lower costs/better products. Or for a less shitty/selfish reason, cause it's 2020.
  • 5 5
 This makes me happy. Keep going, despite the comments. You're helping to change things.
  • 7 6
 Get a life PB. We need more blacks too!
  • 1 0
 Hey, we had a whole month to voice our opinion; where the hell were you?
  • 2 0
 I rode with a black dude a few months ago, I felt like I was frolicking in the woods with a unicorn.
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: is that because you rarely see back folks MTB or because his "lower horn " was horse sized?
  • 4 5
 Some people thought PB was a dating site! Nope, it’s a bike porn site for men who likes big wheels, mustaches, and IPA man boobs!
  • 2 1
 This is not a burning question.
  • 1 0
 BUT WHERE ARE THE BLACKS!
  • 1 0
 Its doesn't matter!
Black, green, gay, happy, female, male, asian or even pigmy, we can all ride a bike the same!
Truthfully, I have always wondered why we don't see more black dudes shredding!
Shaums March has always and will always be my favorite rider!
He shreds like a king, he is black, he from my home town and he loves to blaze! lol
  • 2 1
 Deleted
  • 3 4
 This article is to long for men to stay focused, I know, I am one. should have been a photo article.
  • 2 2
 Run this one by your wife if you haven’t already
  • 1 0
 Good lord
  • 1 0
 Just saying.
  • 4 7
 Burning answer: « by simply hiring more women in the bike industry »!! How the hell in 2020 this is still a question, can someone explain ??!!
  • 3 1
 It isn't a question anyone is asking. It's just pinkbike trying to stir the pot. They could have entitled it, "How do we get more French Guianans to work in the bike industry?" and the public schoolers would have fallen over themselves to prove how pro South American they are.
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