Burning Question: How Do We Get More Women To Work in the Bike Industry?
Just a few of the awesome ladies that I work with at Pinkbike at the end of the BC Bike Race in July 2019.
When I tell people that I work for Pinkbike, I often get raised eyebrows. The mountain bike industry has a long history of being an old boys' club and the media side is no exception. Some people assume I work in a frat house. I don't.
While we have a long ways to go as an industry and as a company, I honestly feel we're on the right path. We recently hired Christina Chappetta as our first full-time presenter, who joins me and a bunch of other super badass women here, like Sarah Lukas, Kate Gayton, Paula Moran, Janelle Lucas, Kelly Wiltshire, Melanie Jansen, Brie Forster, Georgia Yardley, Christie Gibbs, and Claire Ryan. More importantly, our opinions are respected and our feedback is valued.
Last year, I asked what we can do to get more women into cycling and James Smurthwaite asked why there aren't more World Cup Downhill teams that sponsor women and we got tons of interesting feedback.
This year, the message for International Women's Day has to do with gender equality in the workforce. As one of a very small number of female journalists in the mountain bike world and someone who has spent her entire career working in the bike industry, I feel a responsibility to share more women's stories, introduce more women to this sport that I love, and to get more women into the bike industry.
So, I reached out to some of the prominent women that currently work in the industry to get their thoughts on how to add to their ranks.
 | The biggest issue for women in the bike industry is that we're an issue at all. It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management. It shouldn't be hard to find a bike that fits you and feels pretty good with minor tweaks out of the box. It shouldn't be a thing to have to ask to make as much money as men. It shouldn't be hard to find shoes to fit my tiny little feet. But these are all issues and they're real. I feel super fortunate that I've been able to work may way through the rankings in the industry as a freelancer and marketer, but it hasn't been without a lot of unnecessary BS like unwanted advances, derogatory remarks, and a lot of cards stacked against me. Ultimately, I think we all just want the best people in all of the jobs and the fastest people will win the races, but without the community support in both of those areas, it will be a struggle. I DO believe we are going in the right direction but as an industry we need to continue to lift everyone up. |
| I think one roadblock facing women in the bike industry is the fact the media presence is still unequal. Granted, we’ve witnessed significant breakthroughs like Veronique Sandler’s movie Vision and the Women’s Freeride event Formation in the last few years, but we’re still far from true equality. Simply look at the number of women in most bike films? On average it’s about two or three. The industry needs to keep pushing to elevate female-led narratives, so women see themselves reflected in the industry. We need to move away from the stereotypical token-female narrative. If there’s anything that Formation taught us is that there’s a pool of women capable riding at an elite level and that there’s an audience craving to see it. I’d like to see more examples of women collaborating, pushing each other, and learning from each other. Topics like sisterhood and motherhood explored even more. That also goes for what's happening behind the lens. How many women do you see on set in film productions? Photographing marketing materials or at biking events? Where are the female DPs, directors, or producers? We need to support female filmakers, photographers, and creatives to showcase broader perspectives in storytelling. The two are connected. To encourage more women to work in the bike industry start by showing women that they’re valued and belong. Create role models that young girls can aspire to. Highlight actual women within the industry like SRAM women’s event coordinator Sara Jarrell, Crankworx’s communication director Julia Montague, or bike coaches Lindsey Ritcher and Angi Weston. By doing so it shows girls that you don’t just have to be a racer to have a career within mountain biking. Bike companies should also look introspectively and acknowledge the number of women in positions of leadership. It's hard to elevate a group of people if there's no one directly representing them or can actually speak to their perspective. |
| And as we have a small team and I’m not shy about sharing my thoughts and opinions, I also don’t want to have it (again, sadly) somehow backfire on me. But I do want to share this, albeit anonymous. Now the reason I’d like to keep it anonymous is because, I kid you not, 90% of the time I even say the words ‘women or female’ I see the eyes of colleagues rolling to the very back of their heads, and mouths open wide to let out sighs. This is far from encouraging to continue to mention for each and every activation, partnership, athlete, ambassador, event, race, photoshoot, product design whatever it may be: should we perhaps include or use a woman? So when you see the eyes rolling for the umpteenth time, you just start to shut up. Once, when chasing waterfalls in North Carolina, I walked back to the car with a new friend from a different bike brand. What she said I’ll never forget, and have made a personal mission to other women in the industry: as much I keep getting fed up with my job at times, the position that I am in does allow me to bring our company to women’s focused events, partner with women’s focused and showcase our female athletes. And if I were to go find another job, I might not get replaced with another male or female who cares about continuing this strategy. Never give up. How can we get more women to work in the industry? Pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much. So when a woman applies for a demo job, and her mechanic skills might not be as good as the guy from the shop with 13 years of wrenching experience, also dare to look at other qualities, and don’t always go for the easy and safe option. Take on that challenge, and be open to what else it might bring. I have two final words: ROAM FEST. Hands down the best thing that happened to women, (men) and the bike event industry since fanny packs made their comeback. |
Julia Montague, Crankworx Communications Manager
| In my seven years working in the industry, I’ve definitely been in more than a few meetings where it’s felt like the old (male/bro) guard has bulldozed its way through discussions and decision-making. Thankfully, I have a boss who’s very progressive. He believed in me before I fully believed in myself. He’s really pushed me to find my voice in those moments and OWN IT. It’s empowered me to know that I belong, that what I have to say is valuable, and that sometimes I should be the one leading the conversation. What’s the takeaway here? We’re not all blessed with a great boss. But if you’re battling a case of imposter syndrome, dig into your network and find a mentor who can help you break through it. So…how about a mentorship program for women in the bike industry? Let’s make it happen. I’m in. |
| From what I see, working as the Executive Director for the Pemberton Off Road Cycling Association, women in our community are creating a new mountain bike culture, or an evolved one. Membership in PORCA for the past 3 years has been 51% female. I think that is rare for a mountain bike association, I wish it wasn’t. I attest the equity in membership as a direct response to PORCA providing a welcoming environment, fuelled by inclusiveness and driven by a desire to be connected to community. I think given the opportunity to create a new paradigm, women in my community have done just that. Almost 75% of PORCA’s Board and Committee Members are women and there have been more women than men as Directors since PORCA’s inception in 2016. It’s not to say that women are just doing it by themselves, the men in Pemberton are very supportive and proud of how kick ass our women’s riding community is. And it’s not just a gender specific problem within the mountain bike industry, although it’s easiest to see. We can all do a better job creating a more accessible mountain bike community, whether that be from a diversity or affordability point of view. |
| As a woman who joined the industry early on in her career, it became obvious very quickly that I was outnumbered in a big way. This can be intimidating for many women and may interfere with their desire to break the mold and choose a career in cycling. Since I began in 2014, I’ve seen more women out riding and taking positions within this industry, and I believe with passionate women in these positions we’re already making a change by proving we can not only play with, but compete with the boys. By showcasing our knowledge and abilities, I hope we are empowering and guiding future generations of women to see themselves not as outcasts or minorities in the industry, but as equal and capable individuals with a lot to give. |
Sarah Leishman, photo by Robin O'Neill
| The cycling industry has essentially remained in a bubble. This week’s vitriolic comments on Pinkbike prove that many folks remain resistant to the idea of a truly equal landscape for everyone participating, competing and working in our sport. Inclusion, early introduction to cycling, and having open conversations about the imbalances that exist to make things better for the future: these are easy places for all of us to start. We need to continue to have an open dialogue about gender equality in our industry if we ever want to evolve. I worked with the group of people at SRAM to put out the message of commitments made for International Women’s Day this past Monday. The comments that resulted from the coverage here on Pinkbike are proof of why we need to commit ourselves to a better way forward. How can cycling evolve if it’s stuck in an echo chamber that only speaks to 50.4% of the world’s population? This isn’t preaching or virtue signaling: it’s doing business in the modern age, regardless of if it hurts the feelings of trolls out there. I have been lucky to touch the bike industry in different ways over the years. When I was racing a handful of years ago, I was added to the first ever all-women’s EWS team with SRAM | RockShox and Juliana, which was a unique program at the time. It showed that prospects for female athletes in the sport were growing. Since then, I see more women being signed with real contracts as professional athletes than ever before, but there’s still a road ahead. A lot of the challenge in a sport like mountain biking is that the base of talent at the grassroots level isn’t there to replace our elite athletes yet. This is an area of opportunity – there are examples in snowboarding and skiing that show early investment in getting kids into the sport have impacted the numbers of female participation in the long term. This could affect our numbers in the workforce as well – elite athletes inspire future mountain bikers, and mountain bikers make up a lot of our workforce. It would be amiss not to acknowledge that women shooting for senior positions in the industry have to work harder and be willing to do more to be noticed for our efforts, but I’m not going to waste time complaining about it. Women and men who are willing to put in the time and the effort to explore diverse ways of leading and who are willing to improve upon the status quo will pave the way for equality for future generations in this business. |
Three of the women behind Santa Cruz Bicycles / Juliana Bicycles - Katie Zaffke, Elayna Caldwell and Kelli Emmett.
| For Juliana Bicycles, every day is International Women’s Day. We use all 365 days of the year to promote, support and bring awareness to women’s cycling. At Juliana/Santa Cruz Bicycles, our workforce is approximately 21% women. How do we get more women in? Well, for one, we need them to apply for job openings across engineering, sales, marketing, demand planning, production, etc.. The complicated reality is that if they don't apply, we can't hire them. We recognize that there are various reasons women don't apply for jobs in the bike industry at the same rate as men. This means that as a whole, we also need to encourage more diversity in our applications, recruit outside of our communities, and continue the systemic changes that make everyone feel like there's a seat at the table for them in the bike industry. In the interview Pinkbike ran earlier this week, Ken Lousberg, CEO of SRAM, spoke to these points and offered great ideas as they apply to hiring for STEM positions. One tip for women is to nurture your relationships, both with women and men. There is a lot to be learned from friends and colleagues. Find allies who are smarter than you and you will learn a lot -- a really smart woman I met said to spend 10% of your time on your network, and I don’t mean social media. Opportunities arise in unexpected places. Don't be afraid to say yes to those opportunities, but don't be afraid to say no either. Many people have done a good deal of work to get more women into the bike industry. There are great programs that are producing results, such as the UBI scholarship program sponsored by QBP and SRAM. There are industry gatherings of women at bike events with roundtables to gather ideas and help them see a path to elevated positions. On the riding side, SRAM's women's program helps get women into the cycling pipeline both as riders and coaches. We all need to work on getting more women and girls into cycling, from bike companies and media to advocacy groups. We need to show women in our content and advertising. We need to keep supporting women’s events and race teams. We need to make sure women aren't just an afterthought. Women are half of the population. We can all work together. After all, a rising tide raises all ships. Or bikes in this case. |
Rachael de Visser, Product Manager at Norco Bicycles
| I’ve been in the industry for just over a decade, from positions on the advocacy side, marketing, and product design at Norco. Years ago I was asked on an almost weekly basis ‘if I rode’ when I’d meet new people in a professional capacity. It drove me crazy. Now as time has gone on, I don’t get asked as much, or see the same surprise when people look at my business card and learn that, ‘yes, I’m a product manager too. Not ‘just’ a sales girl.’ Maybe that change is from how I hold myself, but I believe it is because it is becoming more common to see women in high power and technical-driven positions all over the industry. It is being normalized, thanks to companies like SRAM and RockShox. How do we get even more awesome women and people of diversity working in the cycling industry? I think its really complex, but also really simple. Apply for jobs! I think the longer I work in the ‘biz and meet more people all over the world, you realize that everyone comes in with different backgrounds and strengths, but ultimately we’re all here because we’re passionate about riding. To get more women working in the industry - especially in product design and management where you can really have an impact - I think you need to put yourself out there and apply for jobs you might not be 100% sure you’re qualified for. Work in a bike shop, in sales or field marketing, do whatever you can do get your foot in the door and get experience under your belt. And to those who are hiring and expanding your teams, think outside the box when you’re interviewing candidates: look for different and new skillsets other than the sea of flat brimmed, flannel-clad bros. It will diversity your team and bring new opinions - you’ll be stronger for it. |
| I've been the bike industry for 20 years and seen some big changes and growth. We are seeing more women than ever enter into the industry. Do I think we are equal? No, there is definitely more room for growth in upper-level management. I believe in order to continue down our current trajectory, women need to work together alongside our male counterparts. This is not an us and against them situation and it's about finding ways to bring awareness to everyone and willingness to work together. Those inside the industry need to invite women to apply for available jobs and give opportunities for additional education. It takes people in upper management to strongly advocate and elevate qualified women. It takes companies like Santa Cruz/Juliana to take the initiative to hire more women, offer equal pay, and create policies around not just maternity leave but paternity leave as well. |
Angi Weston, photo by Skye Schillhammer
| The challenges women face in the bike industry are so complex and multifaceted that it's hard to narrow down a solution that would cover all the layers. However, when I reflect on my 15 year career in the bike industry, one of the most important components to helping me through has been rooted in mentorship - both in having good mentors and in having to redirect my career due to a lack of support and mentors. When I got my first job at a local bike shop I had an incredible mentor who took me under her wing and taught me all about retail, merchandising, ordering, interacting with sales reps, customer service, mechanics... All of it. As my career moved into the wholesale side of the industry as a sales rep for a bike company, I had co-workers who took the time to help me navigate the challenges of managing a sales territory and traveling alone. When the time came to grow my side-hustle (mountain bike skills coaching) into a full-time career I looked to the other professional coaches I saw doing this and turned to many of them for insights and examples. I sought out sponsors who showed me they valued my mission and were willing to support my efforts (special shout out to SRAM, RockShox, & Transition Bikes). As a business owner, I'm now positioned to be a mentor for all sorts of riders looking to expand their careers and develop themselves as coaches and riders. Thanks to the support I receive and the team I have, we are able to run a junior development team and mentor young riders. We show our junior team that the bike industry is a place that women have rad careers like being a skills coach, a freeride athlete, professional racer, shop mechanic, sales rep, product manager, or engineer. There are so many paths that are possible for women in our industry and trails are being blazed left and right. If you find yourself in a position to mentor an eager study, do it. If you already do your part to bring up others, thank you. If you find yourself sitting back expecting everyone to face struggles and injustices like you "had to" in order to get ahead, I challenge you to check yourself and the biases you carry and work to evolve so that you aren't a glass ceiling for the next person looking to come up. To anyone reading this who wants to get into the industry or move up within their current role but feel like they don't have the support they need... Hit me up! Seriously, send me your pitches, resumes, cover letters, etc... and I will do my best to give you advice, insights, and support. Now by no means am I claiming to have all the answers, but I do have an incredible network of peers and mentors that I can turn to for help. |
Brook Hopper, Liv Global Marketing Manager, at the Pique 29 launch event in Kingdom Trails, Vermont. Photo by Robin O'Neill.
| In my opinion, challenges facing women in our industry are vast and systemic, and require a bigger conversation about what equity looks like for women within the cycling industry. There is a lot of talk about equality, but equality only aims to promote fairness, and it will only work if everyone starts from the same place. Looking historically at the lack of support and representation of women and especially of people of color in the bike industry, it begs the question, is equal enough? I am fortunate that I work for Liv, a brand that was founded by a woman and is led by women today. Instead of having to determine what percentage of a finite-amount of resources should be allocated to supporting women vs. men’s programs, we get to dedicate 100% of our time, energy, and resources to support women in cycling. These investments show up in many different ways, and we’re excited that in 2020: * Liv has grown our Liv Racing roster to 17 riders, with all 14 returning from last year. We also have two women employed full-time on the road to support this program as our team mechanic and team manager. * Liv is the Official Women’s Partner of the Enduro World Series, and has posted the championship’s only all-female line-up. * Liv entered the second year supporting our WorldTour team CCC-Liv, featuring 15 of the world’s most promising female road cyclists, including four new riders for this year. * Liv will continue our investment in successful women’s-only activations at global cycling events such as our Liv A-Line Women’s Only Session at Crankworx Whistler, and new additions including women’s-only rides at every stop of the Enduro World Series, and increased on-site activation as a Silver-level sponsor of the Sea Otter Classic. * Liv has expanded our partnership with Ladies AllRide to be global in scope, better enabling them to grow the community of women mountain bikers around the world. * Each year, our global team of female designers, engineers, athletes, and marketers bring our bikes and gear to life, and we also host women’s-only media launches for editors from around the world that include female guides, mechanics, photographers and even swag from women-owned businesses. But that’s certainly not enough, and we know that we can all do better. Last year we co-hosted a dinner for women at Crankworx Whistler, and we realized that creating space for women in the cycling industry is rarely done, but desperately needed. Armed with a growing body of evidence to inform us, a group of us also met in December as part of the Women’s Off-Road Cycling Congress, and we agreed that greater collaboration and working together will be what’s critical to successfully growing our reach to new audiences. And while I know there are many men out there advocating for women and greater inclusivity (thank you!) perhaps it’s time we try a new approach, because if we don’t, our industry will become more irrelevant and stale to those we need most, and that won’t serve any of us. |
Sara Jarrell giving a clinic at Crankworx Whistler.
| I repetitively receive the question, “What is in this for me?” after every presentation, post, or media article that is published about the work that the SRAM Women’s Program is doing. On a very basic level, getting more women on bikes and into cycling grows the industry and the overall revenue possibilities for all companies, businesses, and organizations involved. As a consumer, no matter your gender, race, choosen cycling discipline, or level of ability this means access to more innovative products because companies have more resources to create and market products to you. On a more personal level, and in response to the continual backlash against women’s programs and initiatives in the industry, this is my question back to all consumers, no matter their gender, race, choosen cycling discipline, or level of ability: Why the opposition to more opportunities for people to ride bikes? Specific to women’s program, why wouldn’t you want your mom, sister, girlfriend, wife, partner and/or daughter to have an opportunity to ride a bike? The question as to whether we absolutely need specific programs for people who identify as female is a good question. We need diverse programs for men, women, coed, and everything in-between. I think that many times when a majority audience hears about programming that is focused on a group that they don’t immediately identify with, they feel threatened. I get it. I have felt threatened my entire career by limited opportunities for me to do the things that I am passionate about – being a bicycle mechanic and eventually landing a career in the cycling industry – presented a very slim chance of manifesting for a woman in the bicycle industry. I knew if I wanted my dreams to come true I would have to work harder, perform better, and struggle to find ways to be recognized for the same work as my male counterparts. Would I trade my struggles and successes that have brought me to this point in my career? No. Will I stop being a supporter of creating change in an industry that desperately needs it? Hell no! How do I think the women (and men) in the industry could come together to get more women in the bike industry? We can all start by being supportive of each other and not looking at the addition of women or other marginalized groups in the workplace as a threat. WE ARE A TEAM. If we don’t support each other and celebrate each other’s successes and help each other through our struggles, then we all are missing the point. |
| The most important focus in my mind is how we evolve the conversation and ensure that the women and people we depict in our marketing are relatable and the stories we tell are attainable. To evolve the conversation, I think we have to look at how we are not only finding ways to include women but other underrepresented communities as well - people of color, LGBTQ. We are falling short if we aren’t including everyone who is underrepresented. By all of us working together and fighting for each other, we create more space and opportunity for everyone. |
| I have been running programs reliant on sponsorship dollars and have worked closely with over 20 brands in the bike industry since 2003. Up until recently, I didn't know many women who were in a position to make budget decisions. I asked for funding to start a women's program for years with no luck. I also tried to convince marketing managers I would be a great ambassador for the sport. Without championship titles or accolades, I wanted companies to believe in the power of a passionate mountain biker openly addressing the emotional component of mountain biking to help attract more women to the sport. Nobody seemed to understand my vision. At the end of 2014 a female marketing manager at Liv cycling understood and even shared my vision, so in 2015 Liv became title sponsor of our Ladies AllRide Mountain Bike Skills Camps. This was around the time SRAM had hired a female marketing director and they stepped up as presenting sponsor. Suddenly my dreams were coming true and I believe some of it had to do with women in leadership roles understanding and believing in my mission to make mountain biking less intimidating for women. I think Liv in particular has provided a space where women feel a little more welcomed into a male-dominated sport. I know at our camps when women see other women excel at something there is a "if she can do it, I can do it" mentality that many women might not feel with men. I understand it's up to us as individuals to go after what we want in life, but I think a challenge for women getting into the bike industry was that they simply weren't seeing many other women working at companies, which may have been a deterrent for them believing they could get jobs there. With that said, I do see more and more bike companies hiring women in management roles and supporting women's programs. I also have to say we currently work with many awesome decision-making men in the industry who believe in our mission and fully support us. I think the solution is upon us because I'm seeing more companies make the effort to help women feel welcomed into the sport. |
| This was a topic of conversation at the Women's Off-Road Cycling Congress in 2019. Female-identifying professionals already in the industry will immediately identify the importance of networking amongst peers to maintain and grow opportunities. This is a difficult conversation, because there are different layers of challenge for women in the industry, beginning with the unavoidable topic of "bro culture". It sounds trite, but it comes up: do we, as an industry, suspend our assumptions and really listen to women about their experiences? The reality is, if we respond to the concerns of "women" - support for families, respect for diversity, sustainable compensation, work/life balance - we actually respond to the concerns of the entire industry's workforce. My honest opinion is that women are in a unique position to influence overall positive change for the cycling industry, and a lot of amazing women are already doing so at a lot of companies and organizations. |
Hailey Elise
| I think the challenges women face are the same ones that men face when it comes to entering an industry. Talent, character, etc., all come into consideration. However, I think why we don't see as many women in the mountain bike industry and the action sports industry as a whole is around awareness and interest. If we showcase that it is possible to enter this industry and be successful, then of course more women will follow suit. I would like to challenge industry members, brands, and thought leaders to stop saying they are "trying" to demonstrate equal representation and involve more women by actually doing work to make this happen. This means refraining from the taking the easy route and instead, reaching out to women with expertise in a specific area (photography, clinics, coaching, management, etc.) to find out about other women with developing skill sets, creating environments that foster inclusivity, and making an effort to build relationships with both sexes, not just hiring the homies. |
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Ultimately, getting more women working in the industry is an inevitability, however to ask whether or not we will see an equal ratio is truly defined by each individual's interest. I feel (and correct me if I'm wrong) men in general gravitate towards adrenalin sports, more so than women. The burning undertone here comes down to equality. Ultimately equality is how we should in theory see each individual... human, not defined by gender. We are are equal as we are all good at something, but we are not all good at everything. So the funny but true answer is this. True equality does not exist.
To ask if a woman can do what a man can do, really comes down to can a man do what another man can do. Competition in sport is an example of this, and until gender is questioned, equality is not questioned. Yet we have mens categories and womens catagorys.
Truth is I think the industry has done a damn fine job in creating inclusion for all. Dating back to the early 2000s where Michelle Dumaresq competed in womens world cup downhill.
Women in mountainbiking today are still pioneers of the sport, and sooner or later the sport we love will be incorporated into the lives of every race, ethnicity, race, creed, and religion. Mountainbiking is home to some of the most real and genuine people I've ever met.
So to get to my long drawn out response. As long as everybody keeps their passion for the sport, and spread that passion to others, we will see more and more women in sport.
There are absolutely different levels of interest between the sexes. That don't mean women who do like MTB (or whatever) can't try and get their friends involved.
www.thecut.com/2018/05/study-the-fashion-industry-is-still-run-by-men.html
www.businessoffashion.com/community/voices/discussions/how-can-fashion-develop-more-women-leaders/less-female-fashion-designers-more-male-designers
Kids these days are lucky because they're being allowed to explore more hobbies without being told they shouldn't be pursuing whatever they're into because they're the wrong gender or don't fit the stereotype. In due time it'll balance out to everyone doing anything they want without the arm chair quarter backs of the internet getting butthurt because girls wanna ride bikes too.
I mean the numbers don't lie... Right?
We should all just look at the numbers and then infer why things are that way. So what if we apply a motive when there isn't one; that motive is unconscious! Guilty, guilty guilty! Then use your position in media to sculpt a narrative around this lie and post it as widely as possible. What could go wrong? I am sure it won't deepen any divides. Judging by the comments it's going great. (For a troll who wants to generate clicks anyways)
How many members are male/female? What age ranges do they fall into? Do the viewing habits vary depending on the content of articles? Etc...
I don't want to call this article a BS attempt to talk about a nonexistent problem, so I would like to be educated first.
For example, how do articles about male and female racers stack up in terms of page views?
While we’re at it, I’m bored of eating canned tuna. Can I have some canned dolphin please @Tesco
To summarize quickly: Women choosing to ride bikes/work in the industry, and there being less unequal boundaries for this to occur naturally, is fantastic!! My wife rides, I hope my daughter chooses to share in the joy of riding too. And, forcing people to be equal is evil.
I'll add as well that unethical behavior of any kind toward any group is not ok, I'm sorry many of these women had to deal with jerks in their cycling careers. And, I worry too that identity is preceding accuracy; I've been treated $hitty by male and female colleagues and my sex wasn't my first thought as to why it happened.
Maybe a black dude will convince me not to hate country music.
Maybe Im just not interested and thats all there is to it.
Look, I want what these women want, what it appears you want, what decent people everywhere want; equality and fairness. My caution is that in trying to artificially FORCE equality rather than removing barriers to choice, you end up with at best gross inequities and at worst mass scale destruction. What is hard to understand about promoting choice?
I doubt there are any fathers in the last 20 years who have told their daughters they can’t do something “because it’s for boys”. Any girl who has wanted to do something has done it. Maybe not in Afghanistan or Bahrain, but in western developed countries.
We already have equality as far as I’m concerned.
The irritating thing about this kind of article in my opinion, is that there seems to be the idea being peddled that we must achieve 50:50 male to female participation, employment, etc, in a particular industry or sport. Why? Who came up with this figure and who decided it was a fact that we must all strive to achieve and uphold? Females can go to a bike shop and buy a bike just like males can. Females can enter races if they want. Anyone can do anything. The barriers to entry are the same for anyone. This is supposed to be an equal world in which everyone is treated the same, so why are we even talking about this as if it’s a problem? Free choice. If girls aren’t in the sport, it’s because they don’t want to be - not because of some cloak and dagger sexism.
Grow up.
Responses to some selected quotes (Entirely satirical):
It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management.
—Lacy Kemp, Communications Manager at Kona Bicycles
Lacy Kemp showing she didn't get where she is by working hard.
Now the reason I’d like to keep it anonymous is because, I kid you not, 90% of the time I even say the words ‘women or female’ I see the eyes of colleagues rolling to the very back of their heads, and mouths open wide to let out sighs.
—Anonymous
Feminism is the new shoes.
Pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much.
—Anonymous
Just don't forget to pay me, you're new (inexperienced, lower-skilled) hire the same wage as the rest of the people 'doing the same job'.
And to those who are hiring and expanding your teams, think outside the box when you’re interviewing candidates: look for different and new skillsets other than the sea of flat brimmed, flannel-clad bros.
—Rachael de Visser, Product Manager at Norco Bicycles
Not everyone has the skills to pull off a flat-brimmed cap, especiallly when they're clad in flannel.
If you find yourself sitting back expecting everyone to face struggles and injustices like you "had to" in order to get ahead, I challenge you to check yourself and the biases you carry and work to evolve so that you aren't a glass ceiling for the next person looking to come up.
—Angi Weston, Radical Roots MTB Coaching
If you find yourself complaining incessantly, expecting everyone to simply hand you what you want in order to get ahead, I challenge you to check yourself and the biases you carry and work to evolve so that you aren't a burden to the next person looking to come up.
In my opinion, challenges facing women in our industry are vast and systemic
There is a lot of talk about equality, but equality only aims to promote fairness
Looking historically at the lack of support and representation of women and especially of people of color in the bike industry, it begs the question, is equal enough?
—Brook Hopper, Liv Global Marketing Manager
Socialism is good. Socialism says all people are equal. But under socialism some people get *more* equal. So some people getting more is good. Ergo, capitalism is good.
I would like to challenge industry members, brands, and thought leaders to stop saying they are "trying" to demonstrate equal representation and involve more women by actually doing work to make this happen.
—Hailey Elise, Rider & Photographer
Lacy Kemp says you shouldn't have to work hard. But if you get them to actually do the work then I guess you can have her job :-)
I knew if I wanted my dreams to come true I would have to work harder, perform better, and struggle to find ways to be recognized for the same work as my male counterparts.
—Sara Jarrell, SRAM Women's Program Coordinator
The awkward moment you realise you want recognition just for doing the same work as everyone else...
Don't you dare choose who you want to work on your bike though! That's beyond the pail!
All I can say is, celebrate diversity. It takes all sorts, there is no singular right or wrong belief. It's a scale of alternative truths.
"I was working on the nail bar all last week and you would not believe this. A woman walked in, took one look at me, and then chose Si-Hyun next to me to do her nails! I have never felt so insulted and racially violated in all my life! The very idea that a Korean woman would be better at doing Korean nails than me, a white man, is deeply insulting. Not to mention sexist and racist. I'm going to lobby the government to force patrons to accept a nail treatment from any artist they are assigned to, regardless of race or gender. Free choice allows discrimination, and this has to stop God damnit."
Those girls simply don't have an outwardly social justice agenda. They're not particularly cover girl beautiful... But, they are hot! And, Bernard... His mom did an incredible amount to instill, enable, and nurture his talent. Women are awesome. But that anger infused pic in the above story where all those women are gathered in the tent looks like something from Mad Max. Jeez girls!! gel... smile... ride... hang... be kool... easy on the tats... don't suck all the fun out of everything
There are many women in the industry... according to demand. When they excel, women are rewarded. But, when they soap-box... everyone RUNS!!!! Women already have superior rights than men. It is a liability to hire women from their own doing! And, there is nothing so beautiful and rewarding as when babies are born. Women are so beautiful... why do so many of them want to be ugly?
Mountain biking and surfing have so many kool people. It's a surfer dude energy kinda thing. Accepting, light hearted, relaxed, supportive, encouraging, life-is-good, "wow dude"... kowabunga! Take a lesson from Carissa Moore and Rachel Atherton. Don't kill the vibe
Same is true for me, but I'm a guy, and work in fields where guys tend to be the statistical norm. And I have witnessed a number of female colleagues get talked over in meetings, excluded from group decisions, passed over for opportunities they were clearly qualified for, and so forth. Ask women you know and respect to share their stories with you, you might be surprised.
Fine with her) Vs her brother Dan (who I find grotesque). I am not saying everyone should be all smiles like Greg Minnaar or Pom Pon, but some people are simply offputting. And that gets you nowhere as far as a smile no matter what you have in your underpants.
I know people who are hiring managers and they have told me that when they are fielding resumes for a position, so many women didn't have the qualifications, experience, that many of the men have. So, the men get hired at a higher rate because they are the most qualified for the position.
Businesses are not going to not hire women or advance them that could help their business and are excellent candidates just because they are women. That is just dumb business sense.
If so, there is absolutely no difference in people other than gender!
Female doesn't equal better teacher for little kids!
I meet many female teachers who are for a lack of a better word, more bitchy to the kids rather than teaching!
However on the flip side, I absolutely refuse to help little kids with the toilet, there is a stigmatism that is oddly present and in so, my wife helps me with that part of teaching little kids!
I once had a little girl who was 5 or 6, piss right where she was sitting, I cleaned her up and got some of my sons clothes so she wasn't naked, I then put all her dirty clothes in a bag and handed them to the mother explaining what happened. Who knows why or what the mother was thinking but that student quit that day never coming back! WHY? Because I'm a male!!!
So see, it works both ways people! hahahahahahhaha
Now lets go ride bikes!
I still have a picture of a giant dick my co-worker left for me. Later on he decided to randomly describe his penis to me while on the retail floor- something my male colleagues said he would do to them to disgust them. It's great to be included.
Before I worked there the store had an employee who would regularly take his dick out and swing it around. When I started my colleagues talked about this dude as if he was a legend instead of a pariah.
Later on a mechanic started slamming things and acting oddly upset when I would talk to my other dude colleagues. He sent me an email saying that others didn't deserve me, why wasn't I paying attention to him, etc. The first of a lot of f*cked up communications from dude colleagues- and I never have female HR to go to. Always dudes, the same dudes who were okay with dicks being pulled out at work.
We received an amazing resume from a woman who had experience selling and building bikes, as well as doing bike fits. The manager said he wouldn't call her because she might not fit into the atmosphere of the store. Yes, if the atmosphere of the industry is one where women are so openly disrespected I don't see them fitting in.
Many of these dudes still work in the industry. They face no consequences but women do if they speak up.
Tuskenraider, you are wrong. Women want to work in the industry, but we are tired of being spoken down to and sexualized and having douche bros ignore all the f*cked up things that are going on.
Both of those things are weird, but the latter is certainly not limited to blokes. The former is limited to blokes though, because girls don’t have willies. Well that’s one reason. I would guess that if girls had willies they still wouldn’t do the helicopter squad though.
www.pinkbike.com/u/DoubleCrownAddict/blog/yt-marketing-the-most-offensive-mysogynist-violent-pro-trump-company-in-bicycle-history.html
@sarahmoore I think it would have been a bit better to stretch this out over a couple of weeks so that we could have a bit more focus on what each person said. There were some interesting viewpoints here, just too many of them in one spot.
Is it because they are racist, and white women are more likely to start a conversation about women and not minorities?
so... whats the point of this article then? We need to remove the "systemic barriers"? The only barrier I know is that a decent used bike runs $2k, and unless you can get engineers to work for free and carbon to lay up itself, thats not changing anytime soon.
I'm all for including women, but really, why are bunch of white chicks any more diverse than their white male counterparts?
At the end of the day, this sport is for the wealthy. You want to change riding demographics? How about we cut the bike prices in half.
You quite possibly fixate on skin colour more than any of the bros. That said, bro-culture is what it is, a lot of us just don't relate to it.
Cost. Maybe, kinda. You can get a ripping good hardtail (eg Nukeproof Scout) fir very little money after saving up for a few months at your after school McDonald's jobs.
Trails. Look at trailforks, there are trails everywhere, and that's just the mapped stuff.
"Representation". What the hell do you need representation for to go mountain biking? Sure it probably matters at done level for groups building trails etc, but for your Joe-Blow weekend rider what does that even mean?
And I meant representation in the context of seeing people like you doing the thing that you are considering doing. As a middle class white guy I definitely never had any imposter syndrome in this industry or wondered if I belonged.
The complete lack of mention or research regarding minority participation in the industry shows that the staff has zero interest in true equality. It doesn't take a genius to understand that parties will address matters that are important to them, whether it be for moral or ethical standards, public opinion, or monetary gain. Parties will not address issues that have no benefit in their opinion, and are therefore silent. In this case, the silence is regarding minorities.
There is an entire world filled with wealthy, educated, and active people of color. Perhaps you can say that these groups represent less wealth in the West, but that's obviously false in let's say Uganda or Chile.
Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's racism, maybe it's conditioning based on a lack of worldly experience and perspective. Surely the issue is not simple
Point being is f*ckery and quest for domination and exploitation is international.
Tribalism is strong, why people try to pretend it isn't is proof positive people will parrot anything if they hear it enough.
It shouldn't be surprising that inner city kids might not be into mountain biking. Maybe skateboarding would be a better hobby?
As a kid growing up and being massively into basketball, none of my favourite players looked anything like me. It's a pretty weak excuse to not do something you want to do.
Cost: Comapnies can't make a great, high performing bike for $300.
Trail access: If you live in a metropolis with few mountains around (or in the flatlands of America), how do you propose providing trail access for people who live here? It's like trying to get more Arizona into surfing.
Representation: That's tough because there's a small pool of under-represented people to pull from, and, when you do, you get called out for "tokenism."
If feel like people are in an unrealistic rush to fix everything that could be improved. Many of these things will take generation or two. We have to work diligently at them, but I recoil from the frustration of people who want to take a top down approach in the belief that they could suddenly make everything perfect overnight.
As others have said, equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcome.
Ended up on top? You may be surprised to hear this, but time has not stopped. Nothing has ended.
You're not on top and neither am I, we are entirely replaceable.
Who's getting the best nutrition? Have you seen how much people in the west eat processed food? When shit hits the fan, we'll be ill-equipped physiologically and psychologically to endure hardships (regardless of colour but more whites have shit diets per capita than any other race).
Even in terms of numbers, white people don't match the metaphor you've painted, whites are not plentiful on a global scale, and their numbers are getting smaller by the day.
I just said there is a reason why companies in US or Europe are dominated by white people, since generations these companies or their hybrids were run by generations of white people. Children of these people were sent to universities, their parents supported them financially. If you come out of nowhere, the color of your skin matters a little in comparison to someone coming from somewhere. It is who stays behind you as you are growing into the world. I am happy to accept that more or less consciously people of color may be less accepted for certain roles. But the background of it all is far deeper than “racism” no matter how awful it is,
My roommate at U of T was a civil engineer from China. He was really interested in my bikes, and we watched Where the Trail ends one time, and he knew the region in china where bearclaw and gang were riding. he was from near there, and said all the kids there have to study 14 hours a day or go to work 7 days a week. he said I was incredibly lucky to have a passion like cycling, something he never had the chance to do, and said he never learned to love things outside of work and school.
All I am saying from my experience, is that their is a cultural element in the explanation of why cycling is largely a whiter, western dominated sport. cheers
Go figure that in the continents where white people are majority, the biggest companies are headed up by white folks. Who'd have thunk it?
Next someone will inform us that the people heading up the wealthiest companies in India are Indians, in China are Chinese, in Japan are Japanese, etc...
You wanted to illustrate your point with nutrition and claim those who got the most out of it are dominant. Well how long does that dominance go on? It looks to me like most white westerners are too ill-fed and too reliant on processed food to carry that point for you.
If you write that white people have screwed over everyone, try not omitting the other groups of people who have historically screwed over everyone. We just happen to be in a system right now where the last group of people to express global dominance, did so with a system that rewards people if they choose to play the game with all its corruption and incentives.
Yes, hundreds of millions, maybe even billions of people are getting f*cked over now, but it's by the hand of a comparatively tiny group of people. It's not like Jeremy the white mechanic is making the decisions to destabilize Syria.
I am disgusted by Western nutrition standards in the face of how available proper nutrition is and information about how to use it. But I don’t see how a fat pilot in F35 or fat operator of Nuclear submarine is going to fall victim of lean Arab with Kalashnikov or even leaner, soy fed Chinese Pilot of Mig 21
I agree, people mistake majority privilege as some inherent monster, while refusing to acknowledge the diagnostics of how their society has got to where it is.
I read the professional comments by well deserved and qualified individuals. In particular this struck me as both relevant to MTB and general modern employment, "The biggest issue for women in the bike industry is that we're an issue at all. It shouldn't be hard to find a job in leadership or engineering or management". That is true, but to be qualified and trusted in seniority by an investor you require a rounded and complete knowledge of the business as a whole. Why is it that women have a predominance to chase and seek opportunity immediately in Communications, HR, Marketing and Strategy. Another published author above laments the lack of application for engineering applications by females. But its predominately an engineering and manufacture business. If you don't understand these critical components of the business intimately and deeply, how can you demand or believe on merit that by gender alone you are ready, equipped and are entitled to the role?
And this is a given the world over. Additionally when the tough times come, these soft side skill sets are the first to be culled. So now the career is subject to the global economic cycle, and again this makes you subject to claim income differential, but fundamentally its ultimately around the career you sought, a conscious decision around where you invested your time.
So across industry and globally the world, we have invested and trumpeted the inclusive STEM based careers for women and the evidence is that its not turning the dial, women are not choosing these career paths, or if they do they are liable to use it as a stepping stone and after 5 years are seeking change finding the demands, the hours, the travel, the pressure, the competition of modern economically constrained industries not for them. Generally.
So industry and those that are industry observe two things - needing to address the growing and unrealistic ESG obligations being layered on organisations with a fundamental fudicial duty to generate and make profit, and the need to appeal to the growing poorly conceived liberal ideal of equality and accessibility, somehow now being adjunct to meaning quotas and 50% contribution, by demand. And the existing employees see that through mandated employment of minorities, or employment bias, and streams and categories of careers being female allocated and driven. Anyone else subject or heard someone say "there is no use applying, its allocated". Or as hiring manager, being told? And we wonder about pushback? These are men either being denied opportunity or employment while being breadwinners and parents, for their girls and wives survival. Some skin in game too then, with many many brownie points earned over years or decades already racked up with employers.
And that is where the backlash is, because the bias comes at the clear expense of the long serving and loyal employees whom can be Fathers and Parents whom have served their time, assisted the industry grow and innovate yet will never be given opportunity at Management or Leadership for an entire two generations while we reset this intolerable injustice. So these biased and "bro" nature (its astounding in the submissions how many backhanded slights to Men and how industry is run are allowed, its now cultural norm, no use complaining Fathers) that have created the industry that some females desire participating and growing, are no longer fit to be in the industry. I loved the one about being in a meeting with the "old guard" driving the meeting agenda. Not that the old guard had the credibility, resources or skin in the game greater than you, just that this approach made you feel uncomfortable, and thus needs to change. Some would argue not, this drives outcomes, minimises waste and aspirational fluff, is resource conscious and aware of a range of matters and consideration coming with experience.
There are two truths that come out across industry and modern employment, 1) there is only so many jobs in management and executive to go around, and everyone wants them and 2) as the oil or mining or manufacturing industries attest, the closer to the well head, mine operation or plant you are, generally the safer you are. The dirtier you are, the harder you understand supply chain, theory of constraint, industry technologies and manufacturing, the better and more qualified you are to put your hand up to lead, and that is right and good in a resource constrained, low waste, low interest rate high debt world. Whom has been led and empowered by great women already through the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s? all of us. So it is possible, it needs to be fought for and that is HARD though. You will miss birthdays, sack people, not support your kids education in the seeking of self. It don't mater your gender, world resource leadership should come from the smartest and most qualified, and that often is those who apply, get dirty, chew off more than handle, seek challenge and accept and manage risk. It also comes with a fair degree of family or recreational sacrifice. As a single father of participating children in the sport, and with our level of employment support versus the recent programs and focus on gender, I don't buy the systemic issues attributed to gender argument anymore . If this isn't as close to a level playing field and opportunity for all I don't know what is with the mandated and compulsory social programs in place. Ultimately market demand drives industry. The market is saturated and no growth opportunities exist so the captains of industry are seeking alternate markets, the infirmed and less well abled with eBike technology, demographic opportunity. Its about a bigger economy, stupid.
I did not see anyone in the industry pushing back on the gutting of predominately male employment at the cost of the manufacturing industries for profit and lower wages costs as it moved to third world countries. Or the prevalent and endemically greater unemployment of males versus females, not the striking success in female participation success over last two decades in first world countries. Perhaps as supply chain surety issues most recent forces more domestic manufacturing back onshore, females will lead the vanguard and take the opportunity to reset the imbalance and start at bottom and work up, and not setting unrealistic expectations that in 5 years you will be boss, exec, snr management. Technology and employment obligations mandate this is becoming less of an issue to provide stimulating, interesting and equally achievable career possibilities leading to the opportunity at management.
Two final queries in this long running dialogue:
1) Is there a natural threshold and limit to participation based on the sport characteristics, ignoring culture. Sharp rocks, fast speed, isolation, demanding conditions, entry expense. If there is, why would taxpayers or investors be compelled to support or seek to invest beyond that? How do we get more boys in Netball anyone, slipped off my media feed. Why are common MTB strategies to the community demands for more organic MTBing riding opportunities to immediately introduce skills and green trails for greater participation?. Seems like the best way to cause concern for the original participants, greater resource stress in a constrained network; and
2) Ok Industry with all the benevolence you have above marketing spin - across your entire supply chain (this is standard business practice evaluation and disclosure), with the manufacturing elements in Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Korea and China, in these low wage environments that have allowed the industry to be what it today, what is your gender statistics. I think you may find if you count these truly in an auditable and transparent function, you are pretty close to parity, or significantly more than if we look at the local first world on shore Management, Distribution, Sales and marketing functions only as being "the entity". Can you please be compelled to publish these in annual reports to listing jurisdictions, and we can then discuss these matters on an evidence basis. You have used and exploited these women in largely sweatshop conditions, be proud and publish the stats by region please. Show the intent above the spin.
I applaud all women whom have made it, those who taught or led me in hard industries, my daughter included whom is a great rider through again a shit lot of injury and hard work. But after 10 years she decided she didn't want to ride anymore, as did her male brother, due other interests and life cycles. I don't see it as a failure. Forcing results as in forcing participation is a failure, and dead end navel gazing. If you want it, get it. Stop Bro blaming, its so 2014 where again was found to be an invective of Industry who really want bigger economies, larger revenue and lower wages through supply options. Modern World.
I also think that the industry MUST find ways to make decent, reliable (if heavy) mountain bikes with proper geometry under $1000 usd. If we want to grow I firmly believe that’s necessary.
I agree that the perfect is the enemy of the good when it comes to this stuff. And you’re right that it’s going to take a long time to get anywhere. It sucks to get attacked for not doing enough of various things when you’re trying. But the reality is we all can do more.
I’d love to see a more utilitarian alternative fs trailbike available with basic but decent suspension (single pivot), simple open bath fork, cable discs, external routing (except sp), no paint or just simple clearcoat, under $1000. I could sell a lot of that bike, for sure.
White dudes talking about how to create a more well round riding community. You're going to get exactly what you deserve if you think there's anything to come from it other than a $$$ sign. It's the same douches who tell you that the only part of riding that matters is the one on a $12k or that backflips are so technical.
Brands are just as guilty. All the frames and parts are made by non white hands, yet you'll never EVER see a photo of Asians riding. Hell will freeze over before you see a person of color on Pinkbike.
Work to be done, indeed. Baby steps.
Any further complaints can and should be directed to your reply.
Yes, yes yes... please, please please can we all agree that Brian has the entire "equality of opportunity" half of the equation nailed down right there.
Remove the barriers and the (insert preferred group with historically low participation rates here) will flock in and bring a cohort more reflective of wider society...
Oh, but now wait a minute...many people say we need to do more. We need to intervene more, and this is where the vitriol against the so called "equality of outcome" part of the equation appears.
So, can we not agree about going further than just "removing the systematic barriers".. that might not be enough. Maybe we need to actively promote greater participation by groups that have, up until now, ended up with lower participation rates due to those barriers??
That's what I see here in this article, women in the industry saying we need to remove the barriers and then some, we have to actively promote women in the industry to encourage participation from those who have been dissuaded previously.
Where's the problem in that? If we actively promote to historically low participation groups and we get a response, where's the ~ism in that?
If we actively promote it and still get no response, then maybe that is the time to rethink the perspective.
But we have to assume at this stage everyone has to work harder at increasing participation.
Besides, I for one am pretty tired with the "sick gnarly shredding bro" undercurrent that tends to provide the backdrop to the vast majority of an image-driven industry and anything that dilutes that gets my vote!
What many guys have homed in on is how women show up onto a scene and then complain their way into opportunities that men have had to work for, and demand preferential treatment to atone for whatever made up bullshit that comes out of their mouths.
fwiw, I got my ex-wife into riding and she loves it. I'll take her out riding as often as she wants cause it's fun to see her enjoy it so much. But to her, spending what the industry is asking on a bike is crazy. Maybe that's what this is all coming from- some executives are trying to guilt men into becoming little sales agents for the bike companies.
Exercise is critically important to mental and physical health. We all want our wives/daughters/sisters/friends to be healthy and happy. Its a lot easier to exercise when you combine it with a hobby. However, you can't spend your whole live worrying about the choices of others. In every way you measure it, in every country, women choose not to exercise as much as men or spend time outdoors as much as men. The whole world isn't sexist. Even if you sort data by least to most egalitarian countries, there is no correlation with women spending more time outdoors exercising.
Once you start claiming racism/sexism because people don't act the way you want them you, you build resentment. There is literally no guy on this site (99% male, I'm guessing) who wants fewer women in cycling. We just are sick of being told we are bad because of the choices of others.
Then there Is a book “spiritual bypassing”, it’s about how we insert God or will of God whenever we struggle to find meaning in anything, either good or bad things. Man, that shit is so relatable to environmentalism or gender issues.
So I’m willing to bet a strong correlation exists between how much more time men spend outdoors exercising and how much more time women spend indoors cooking, cleaning, raising kids. How about single women with no kids? There are just as many single mothers out there with full custody and therefore no time. This is obviously changing, women are supposedly liberated but just look at some of these comments.. Plenty of bitter, intimidated men so it’s obviously a slow process.
Not everything that shine’s gold. Be careful
Begrudging compliments.
Well, because money isn't everything. Now I ride every day, I get to share the joys & benefits cycling with boys & girls who otherwise would not get the chance to learn to ride a bike, expand their skills, feel safer & more confident within themselves as people while expanding their horizons. All of which has an amazing positive effect on their outlooks & development as they try to find their place in the world. To me that is way more rewarding & fulfilling than chasing money ever was.
However, when you're asking a question don't be surprised when someone provides an answer. If the question is tongue in cheek, pop a winky face at the end to convey the intent. You know better than anyone how something said in a comments section can be misconstrued in a way the same thing if said in a face to face conversation would be clear.
Best of luck to you.
Our conversation kind of answers some of the questions posed in this article. It's changing perceptions that people, of all gender, can find a place within the industry. It's a bigger pool than just manufacturing or wrenching.
I've had a client who at 11 had never riden a bike. Now as a 16 year old will be spending this summer with a trade team in Belgium to gain experience on what may be her road to bigger success. 5 years ago she didn't even know things like that were possible until the perception was changed.
It's the exact same thing for getting more women involved in cycling. The okay to say door is open but do they even know the door is there. it's about changing the perception so they can see the door and enter.
For some maybe, I do understand where you are coming from. For me personally, absolutely not.
Also for all you single dudes out there, this can only be good right? Let's end the mtb sausage fest!
What calculabe difference will it make to have more women behind the scenes in the industry? It's just a gender. Being a woman won't make your insites any more relevant to mountain biking. Only the way you can pander to your own gender. Who cares?
When more women are riding bikes eventually they will populate industry roles as their balance in the total rider population itself is balanced. The push for affirmative action mandated balance of women's participation in the industry is reverse sexism at its best.
Any demographic will have a larger role in an industry when they educate themselves in areas that are relevant to said indistry. ie: engineering, purchasing, supply chain management, marketing, sales. When someone is qualified for a specific role and their passions align with an industry they will venture into that world.
Until then the question is a waste of internet.
Ps- he was implying that men or women, who gives a shit. At least that’s how I took it. But I’m just a dumb man.
You guys make great stuff, but NSMB made a valid point: How many female athletes/ambassadors do you have?
Think of the vast majority of people that read an unfairly critical comment like that and believe the commenter is nuts. At least, I do.
Love all my gear from NF. And it’s from a local company doing good things for the community. The people hating either have a hidden agenda or are just trollIng to piss you off. Forget about them.
:-)
www.pinkbike.com/u/DoubleCrownAddict/blog/yt-marketing-the-most-offensive-mysogynist-violent-pro-trump-company-in-bicycle-history.html
Are there any female mechanics in the Calgary area looking for work?
I worked at 4 different high end shops and was a bike messenger in Chicago for years. I then moved onto driving the race support semi truck for SRAM and wrenching on race bikes in the 90s. In each and every job I had I worked alongside women. Some of these women were working for a paycheck in an industry they liked, but didn't necessarily want to retire in. Some of these women were talented and ballsy bike messengers. Some of these women quit higher paying jobs to work at a shop and learn to be a mechanic. One woman I knew well paid to go to Barnett Bicycle because she wanted to fast track her experience in a field she was so enthralled with. Lots of gals bought mountain bikes in those pioneer days and traveled in cars full of dudes to go shred singletrack for their first time. At SRAM there were many women engineers and technical writers. They were some of the most stoked SRAM employees that traveled to the NORBA and GRUNDIG races. Their enthusiasm trumped that of many of their male engineer counterparts.
Moral of the story:
1. Women can, have been, and will always be born with or easily initiated into bicycle stoke and talent.
2. NONE of the MANY women I have had the pleasure of working with were ever discouraged from joining our "manly" bike world. Garsh, what kind of dude would be a prick about hanging out with women who are interested in bikes?
Sounds simple, but I’m serious.
There are eager women who are really driven to break into industry positions.
They aren’t always going to come from a background where they’ve worked in the industry for years and years but they have acquired the necessary skills through other jobs.
It’s that time old catch 22 of ‘We want experience in the industry’ but it’s impossible to get the experience.
So, give them a chance. Invest in them a little bit. It’ll pay off.
If 100 people apply for 10 jobs and the the best 10 people are females hire them if the top 10 candidates are men hire the men
If 5 apply out of the hundred and 3 of them are in the top 10 hire 3 and the next best 7 candidates.
Don't close the gates at any level, whether that's industry education or promotions selection, and hire the best person for the job, whether male or female.
Then don't push for a 50/50 split on gender as you'll have the best people in the industry
Merit >>>>>>> Diversity
A: Make sure they don't see the comment section of a Pinkbike article involving women.
There's a colossal, logical difference between "we need to approximate gender equilibrium in our industry" compared to "we need to reduce gender exclusivism in our sport". I see and hear the latter, but I'm not clear on why the former is going to solve for this issue.
- There are definately differences in interests between men and women. The real question would mostly be: is this due to biological differences, envrionmnental/cultural ones or a mix of both?
- This is important, because it means the difference between "forcing" something onto someone (as in, for instance, forcing women to like mountain biking) which can never change (biology) or trying to "interest" someone into doing something (for instance, encouraging women to join the sport with women specific marketing and events).
- Now, to my knowledge, there is no clear research on the explanations for why there is a difference in interest between the two sexes towards mountain biking.
- However, one can readily observe that there is a change in interest over time (on average, it seems more and more women ride) but also depending on geography (the example of the Pemberton riding association in this article would be an example).
- Considering that the women living in different areas are very much likely to be biologically identical (on average), this would suggest that environmnetal/cultural factors do play a factor into the question of interest towards the sport. To what degree, we don't know.
- The fact that a community like Pemberton reached a ratio of 50/50% suggests that this is a realistic % for communities similar to Pemberton (same ratio of male/female inhabitants, economic condition, etc.)
Therefore, it seems reductive and overly simplistic to state that (presumably biological) interests can explain the difference we observe. Societal dynamics can seldom be explained in a single sentence.
This would get you more than started.
www.amazon.com/Human-Diversity-Biology-Gender-Class/dp/1538744015
There is indeed sound research that has, and is still, conducted to study the differences between male and female biological traits and their extent. That being said, I doubt it can go as far as explaining the very specific different makeups of female and male riders accross the world.
While there is ample material that does heavily suggest biological differences between men and women, the research on the degree to which that has an impact is very much not there yet. It is quite hard to clearly identify and differenciate environmental and biological differences.
Again, considering that some places such as Pemberton do reach 50/50 male to female ratio (or Something close to it), this would suggest that it is indeed an "achievable" "goal". This would suggest that biological differences between men and women are a bad predictor of interest for the sport. Unless, of course, there is a very agressive culture around Pemberton that encourages women more than men to partake in mountain biking.
I will, however, seek out whether or not recent advances in the field have reached the granular level at which we can confidently explain sports' preferences of men and women in relation to their biological differences. If you do have a source regarding that, I would gladly read it. I am assuming that M. Murray does not go into such détails into his book (I will also wait on the peer review, as some, but not all, of his previous work had been shoddy at best).
Cheers!
I guess, I'm more comfortable inferring from the research than you are. How could you ever fully figure out what is environment and what is biology? Obviously you can't, it's never going to get down to the granular level. Humans are too messy. You don't think that any inference can be made from more general research of risk tolerance? Research that shows men are more interested in things (i think gear snobbery plays a big part in mountain biking, simliar to how modifying cars is a very male-dominated hobby)?
I get that viewing this as a environmental problem empowers us to make changes as opposed to the fatalistic biological view. I'm happy that people are seeking to make changes for the better. I just think that by completely ignoring biology (not saying you do this, but many do), we end up chasing boogie men that don't exist.
Another aspect worth considering is, what is happening at the grassroots and what is happening at the pro level. A lot of this article seems to deal with problems we see in the media and then imposing that onto the whole sport. If we are getting closer to 50:50 at the grassroots, that is amazing and awesome for our sport. But, I think we tend to focus on what the pros are doing (men, men, men and a few women). Pros are not normal human beings. They are the outliers. And we know from the research that at the extremes, men are over-represented. I think people use the pros as a data point and then extend this over the whole sport, where is really only applies to pros and should be viewed as such.
Respectfully, I think you put a bit too much emphasis on this Pemberton data point. Personally, I help to run my local trail building association. We sell individual memberships and then for barely more, we see family memberships. So instead of Pete signing himself up, he buys a family membership and includes his partner and daughters. If we wanted to publish your gender split in memberships (and there is lots of incentive to do this in 2020), it would look pretty equal due to all the family memberships. But if you were to ever show up at a build, you would see 5:1 men to women at a build.
Anyway, I like talking about stuff like this. Thanks for the reply.
Man, I miss that bike life...
If women want to be involved, they will be. If the culture of a particular "sport/scene/industry" doesn't lend itself to female interests, they'll build their own variation of that "sport/scene/industry" or they simply just aren't interested and nobody has to accommodate their passage into it.
With that being said, I would say the #1 driving force for a female based culture within the industry would be independently owned businesses that women start up, whether that is a bike shop or a component brand or even a bike brand, that is where it begins. When a female gears up a service or a product, other women can spot it instantly because the thought, design ideas and spirit of it are organically female.
If you had a half dozen female owned bike component companies side by side in a booth of a trade show with those of male owned companies and just let people wander into those booths(bikers and non-bikers) , you could instantly see the effect the female mindset has on marketing and product.
APPLY! for crying out loud.
As Rounds Rousey said, the money you get paid should be based on the money you bring in. Same goes for the "ambassador" positions, the more exposure you can assure to a brand the more likely they will get in touch with you. Now the behind the scene e.g., marketing, building, and engineering, that shoul go to "the best person for the job". I want to ride the best bike and I don't care who designed it or built it or sold it to me. Does it happen to have a XX chromosome or a XY (or now, I between) I dont care give me a rocket to fly. Be the best, get the job. Work your ass off, prove you're worth your salt. Playing the victim does not help. BTW, of all PB presenters my favorite is Christina and by a freaking mile! She's cool, she know her stuff and she has the best attitude without pushing on her looks. Well done!
"Sorry. You guy first."
"Yeah, sorry about that."
and....SCENE!
Great way to strawman/gaslight/misrepresent or whatever is the correct term. "I think we should treat people equally regardless of gender" is now a "vitriolic comment"
I'm doing everything I can to get my daughters to enjoy sports and exercise in general, specifically cycling. But girls just don't show the same interest as boys no matter what we try to socially engineer. The CDC did a study recently that despite having about the same enrollment in youth sports, girls drop out at six times the rate as boys by the time they reach high school.
"Bye, Felicia"
Felicia, please stick around.
But don't get mad when people won't hire you because of your lack of strength.
Regarding the question posed of "how do we get more women to work in the bike industry" - this is something I've talked to my (women) friends about a lot - and the three things that come up the most are opportunities, mentorship, and representation. Like Anonymous said "pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much." A woman might bring something new to the table that wasn't thought of before even if their resume isn't as full as another applicant. As Angi said, mentor women who are in the industry. Having someone show you the ropes can make all the difference. And lastly, representation. It is hard to imagine being a mechanic, marketing director, freeride champion, or shop rat if you never see another woman doing that. As Katie said, "If there’s anything that Formation taught us is that there’s a pool of women capable riding at an elite level and that there’s an audience craving to see it."
"Regarding the question posed of "how do we get more women to work in the bike industry" - this is something I've talked to my (women) friends about a lot - and the three things that come up the most are opportunities, mentorship, and representation. Like Anonymous said "pick the best person for the job. But encourage the hiring team to look at a job description from different angles. Skills can be taught, traits not so much."
A stylish scrub, under a forest canopy in perfect loam, does bring a tear to my eye...
My 9 year old daughter loves riding her bike, to the point of not complaining when morzine spat her out battered bruised and bleeding (good or bad parenting, you decide). But I do suspect that when she realises that her friends prefer BTS to MTB, she'll give up :-(
As for ‘attitude is telling’, I learned a lot about you when you said ‘I can honestly tell you that if the first store that hired me didn’t see promise in me, I would have been heartbroken’.
Can’t really believe that you’re the one who said ‘if they apply, hire them’, yet I’m the one who is ‘simple’.
And just for your info, plenty of people apply for jobs they aren’t qualified to do. Apparently even you did it!
none of this was necessary, had you had a grasp of basic math. and don't try to make this about feelings, especially after you tried to play the innocent about being a condescending ****.
For the women in the industry, stop feeling like the responsibility is yours to change what’s broken about the bike industry. To Lacy’s point, the issue is that women are still being viewed as the issue at all. Life is short and the world is FULL of opportunities with the right work ethic. There are plenty of industries out there that are fulfilling and already treat women equally. If you really do care that much about the bike industry, leave it and learn how to make it better from a new perspective. If you’re like me, you’ll realize other passions you have, develop new skills, have a much more flexible work schedule, and make enough money to support your love of bikes on your own terms. Nothing more empowering than fixing what doesn’t work for YOU, not anyone else. Lead by example.
If leaving entirely isn’t an option, strategize on your side hustle. Make yourself first. Let that attract new waves of other empowered women to simply turn the whole damn thing over on its side. Just MAYBE through these processes of leadership and reflection, the whole thing will meet in the middle, better than ever.
I think there are other groups of people that are much more underrepresented, to a shocking degree. I can honestly not remember meeting someone of the black community working in the industry. Not a single one within probably thousands of people I met. And this is probably much less so by choice than by unequal opportunities. It also seems to be difficult place to be for gay men as I am only aware of two in the industry, but then that is something that is not as obvious when meeting people.
My wife and I encourage our daughter to try everything (same way we treat our son). She plays a few team and individual sports, but decided she was not crazy about mountain biking. She’ll come for the odd ride but that’s all she wants to do. We would certainly never force her to ride more just so female riders in the valley can keep they’re numbers up.
I worked in the bike industry for many, many years. One manager told me when I was hired, "How are you going to fit in? You don't drink [alcohol]." I was also told, "We hired a woman for this territory before and she slept with all of the bike shop owners... " Just two of the most striking things I was told when interviewing or being hired. I also represented a line of women's bikes that were basically just a man's take on what women want. Nothing based in reality.
My hope is that things have changed since then. I have largely been out of the industry for the past 5 years. Mostly because I wanted to make a decent living (the bike industry pay is low) and just buy the things I wanted and pay for my own trips around the world so I could do them on my own terms. I suppose you could also say I had become jaded and exhausted from working in an industry that operated in the past and didn't seem to be moving into the future.
I've worked for magazines, bike manufacturers, retailers. I've spun wrenches, created marketing campaigns and hosted events. I have seen almost every side of the business-- good and bad.
We're still looking for women's products, the way to market to women. Mistake.
So how do we get more women in the bike industry? The answer is women need to be in upper management. And they need to act like women, not like men. You can't change the culture of an industry with the same thinking that created that culture.
I have seen so many unqualified people put into positions they don't necessarily deserve and even many, many more highly qualified people placed in entry-level positions well below their pay grade. (This is across the board for men and for women). This is discouraging for high-quality candidates. Taking a job below your ability and for less pay than you are worth destroys your self-worth and ability to shine. Women hurt themselves in the industry. We accept that job. We peddle our sexuality. We insist on wearing mascara during races.
If companies would hire qualified, experienced women who know how to run businesses (even if they would hire qualified, experienced men who knew how to run businesses) and pay them what they are worth, more women would work in the industry. It comes down to having an empowering workplace where women are respected as intelligent leaders, not a model for a month on a calendar.
I have had a great deal of fun in the bike industry and have made many friends. I love bikes. And I often miss being around bikes all the time. I have had ups and downs. Maybe someday I will be back. If that happens, I can promise you, I will have an army of women with me.
All that said, I think this is better considred perspecitive than almost all of the posts above and it should be included among them.
And after reading this article then reading the comments I can’t help but think there’s still a long way to go.
I saw the comment you mentioned, and I even gave it a thumbs up myself. Not to put women down, but because I feel a bit of good humour would go a long way in this conversation.
You're descripton sounds like entirely normal male behaviour- there's nothing intimidating about a few mates having a laugh, ribbing on each other and being brash and loud- unless someone told you to think it was anything but friendly behaviour. I don't engage in it often myself,, but I figure to each their own. The reality is they're not hurting anyone.
Also, I don't think you realise how nefarious you sound; You (and I've noticed the people like you) want to impose your will on others, in order to bully them to act the way you want, based on the faulty assumption that it will benefit those who can't or won't stand up for themselves. Maybe you fail to see it, or maybe you just don't care but those people you want to 're-program' will have lost their autonomy, their capacity to think for themselves and it will be replaced with your 'better way'. And that will be society's loss. I'm willing to bet if the tables turned you wouldn't accept those same people telling you how to think, behave and live your life.
I know you feel it's the right thing to do but a) (Your daughter excepted), you can't be sure those people you're trying to help are genuinely good people, b) We all have to learn at some point that the world doesn't revolve around us and (probably most importantly) c) You can't impose your agenda on others like that. Who are you to presume you know better than other people how they should think and behave? I honestly find that perspective monstrous. You should be concerned with setting a standard to follow regarding courage, tolerance for other people and respect for their individuality. From one father of a daughter to another; Instill confidence in her, teach her to give as good as she gets, and never let her cower behind you for fear of hearing mean words.
dont force women to carry penises because equality.
f*ck the political correctness and 50/50.
Long live freedom!
www.pinkbike.com/news/video-friday-fails-108.html
Let them decide if this looks fun or not!
Firstly, i'm not a lady, so don't have the same problem exactly, but knee pads have always annoyed me till recently.
I found that unless you are wearing hardshell pads I would recommend looking at pads that only have the bottom strap. I find that the upper strap is mostly a way to get the pad to slide down. I use the sleeve style pads with a lower strap and tuck the top of the sleeve under the the cuff of my shorts liner.
There is pretty big difference between Specialized saying that there is no statistical difference in limb length between men and women. Which I believe was the conclusion of Specialized. You are seeming to make a leap from what Specialized said to saying that women's clothing doesn't have to be shaped different than men's clothing.
PB, you answered your own question with the 1st picture. Offer them "FREE PINKBIKE T-SHIRTS".
Black, green, gay, happy, female, male, asian or even pigmy, we can all ride a bike the same!
Truthfully, I have always wondered why we don't see more black dudes shredding!
Shaums March has always and will always be my favorite rider!
He shreds like a king, he is black, he from my home town and he loves to blaze!
1. Read this article to RESPECT WOMEN
2. Go straight to the comments because you are SEXIST