What Does Brexit Day Mean for the British Bike Industry?

Jan 31, 2020
by James Smurthwaite  
Hope Tech


Three and a half years after the final ballot was cast, the UK officially leaves the EU at 11pm tonight. While we previously heard horror stories of bike shortages, price rises and huge profit hits for bike brands, it seems like nothing is going to change... for now at least.

Most of these gloomy predictions came as the UK was staring down the barrel of a no-deal Brexit. At that time, the government was unable to come to an agreement on a deal, Boris Johnson was saying he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than agree to a Brexit extension and the deadline was looming. Eventually though, an extension was passed, a deal agreed and Boris Johnson granted a mandate by the British public in a general election in December, allowing him to pass his Brexit deal and begin Britain's withdrawal from the EU.

Tonight the UK enters a transition period where it will be separate from the EU’s political and legal process but is still subject to most EU rules. What this basically boils down to is the UK's Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) leave their seats, but negotiations will continue to determine the future relationship between the EU and the UK. This transition period is currently penciled in to finish on December 31, 2020.

Hope Tech

What happens during this period?

The key thing to note is that the UK remains part of the single market and customs union that the EU offers. This is a frictionless trade agreement that allows goods and people to pass freely between nations in the EU. The UK will also continue to trade with countries outside the EU under EU terms while the transition period is ongoing. This basically means the bike industry will continue as normal for the time being.

Dominic Langan, the CEO of Madison, the UK's biggest distributor, told us, "Until we know the terms of any deal it is hard to know how to fully prepare." Although he did say that they were working towards creating a distribution center in Ireland for shipping parts and accessories. He said: "We are seeing really positive growth in Ireland over the last couple of years and this is something we would probably do anyway. Brexit is making the decision easier for us to make, but it has forced the timing."

Alan Weatherill, Sales and Marketing Manager at Hope, said, "There is no understanding at all as to what's happening after Brexit. Whatever the government says about how we will treat imports, that doesn't mean that anything we export to the continent will be treated in the same way... We'll be carrying on as normal until the end of the year now."

How has Brexit affected the British bike industry so far?

Currency fluctuations have been the biggest impact so far, with the pound still around 15 cents lower against the dollar since the day of the Brexit referendum. This is simply too much for brands to swallow so prices have altered accordingly. For bands that import, this will likely have meant increased prices, however, brands that manufacture in the UK have been able to offer cheaper products to EU customers as a result. Jay Tolan, General Manager at Orange, said, "As the pound weakened off a bit, the pricing for Europe got a lot better. The bikes were cheaper than they had been previously so there had been a bit of influx." The pound is likely to continue to be volatile for the foreseeable future so expect prices on bike products to continue to mirror this.

With fears stoked about goods entering the country, we also asked about stockpiling and found that most brands hadn't considered it. 661 told us that they only import product four times a year and, as their product is non-perishable, they didn't believe a delay at customs would significantly affect their business. At Madison, Langan said they had, "good levels of stock and very sophisticated planning algorithms in place," and that they were, "suitably stocked to cope with any transitional disruption to the supply chain."

 icebike 2018
Madison's clothing range on display at its iceBike* Show

The only brand we spoke to that had stockpiled was Hope. They increased their stock levels of raw materials when Brexit fears first surfaced and have maintained that high level of stock until now. They believe they have a "few months" of materials should any disruption happen at the borders post-Brexit.

The future relationship with the EU

Top of the to-do list for the UK government will be to arrange a new trading agreement with the EU. The 11-month time period is shorter than any other previous EU trade deal, which has led to the Institute for Government, an independent think tank, claiming that both sides may end up “prioritising a largely goods-only free trade agreement” with negotiations on services, "likely to be postponed until after December 2020". The exact terms are still up in the air but with proposed options ranging from "Bespoke Norway", to "Reverse Ukraine" or "Canada Plus", there are plenty of ways it could go. The British bike industry will be holding its breath and hoping for favorable terms that don't cause too much disruption.

Hope Tech

There is one catch here, these negotiations need to happen quickly. If a trade deal is not negotiated by December, then the UK (apart from Northern Ireland) could revert to trading on WTO terms, which many commentators have compared to being as harmful as a No Deal Brexit in the first place. The final scenario is a possible extension by two years to December 2022, as long as this is agreed by both parties by July this year.

Orange Bikes

The rest of the world

As the UK has been trading under EU rules with the rest of the world for the past few decades and it will continue to do so until December in the transition period. However, it will have to renegotiate trade deals with the rest of the world as it leaves the EU. It has already agreed to continue trading under EU rules with 20 existing blocs that includes 50 countries including Switzerland, Norway and most of Central America (a full list can be found here). However, this means re-negotiating its terms with countries such as Canada, the USA, Taiwan and China.

It can officially begin these trade negotiations tomorrow, however they cannot be implemented until the end of the transition period. The result of these negotiations could have serious consequences for both manufacturers in the UK and customers of UK brands around the world but it's too early to say what this will look like at the moment.

So, this time next year, things could look very different for the British bike industry, but for now it's business as usual as the limbo continues. We'll update you on any significant updates as the negotiations continue.

Posted In:
Industry News



434 Comments

  • 175 15
 Can't even get away from the absolute gang f*ck that is brexit on pinkbike
  • 48 5
 I HOPE THEY START TO FOCUS ON THE ISSUES THAT MATTER LIKE MEGXIT!
  • 19 2
 I was happy to see it wasn't about the virus, after a quick glance at the thumbnail.
  • 88 0
 Or where TF is the GRIM DONUT ride review ffs...................
  • 18 15
 In the US we are not leaving a whole group...just attempting to leave one behind. hehehe
  • 10 0
 @cky78: f*ckn right! That’s all care about right now. Brexit today isn’t even the real brexit just a sham and they still haven’t got to an agreement.

I’m guessing it snapped very quickly so there’s another frame on its way in a box. Let’s hope none sneezed on it!
  • 3 2
 Amen, I have tried to avoid the “party” all day but can’t even escape it here
  • 5 1
 It's like 12.31.99
  • 1 0
 @cky78 I second this comment!!
  • 3 2
 Yeah and their lack of real facts
  • 13 1
 Can we keep our bikes running without the politic bs?
  • 2 4
 @cky78: what is a grim donut.
  • 8 0
 @cky78: sounds like something you sit on after arse surgery.
  • 36 11
 I'd say I don't understand why you guys voted for brexit again by officially putting Johnson in power at the end of 2019, but the US is quite likely going to re-elect trump this year so I just don't understand anything anymore.
  • 5 0
 @cky78:they canceled the review after the first jump tore the headtube from the frame
  • 8 5
 @friendlyfoe: the lunatics are running the global asylum .
I just turn all politics off now , no point being angry at it all
  • 36 7
 @friendlyfoe: corrupt media and government and a poorly educated population with a superiority complex. Basically we’re the Americans of Europe.
  • 3 0
 @cky78: that thing shreds so hard they’re rushing it to production before anyone copies the geo.
  • 1 0
 @makripper: what facts? Everything is still tbd in regards to future trade agreements. What else could they write?
  • 5 3
 @powderturns: if I’m not mistaken, the UK already made a bunch of deals essentially identical to the ones the other countries have with the UK. Canada and US is still outstanding, as far as I understood. Canada will be ok, but the US will be a problem. The current administration will try to milk it as much as it can to show how brilliant it is.
  • 30 4
 @thenotoriousmic: a recent article suggested that bashing Europe was some sort of hobby for the Tories in the 80s-90s. Now they paid the price, despite getting next to every concession possible and being on the winning side for almost every EU legislation. If you blame for 40 years others for your own failure you might begin to believe it yourself.
As always, the EU isn’t perfect but a strong block against the other powerhouses in the world and it would have been nice if the UK would have appreciated its place in this union a bit more. But suspicion and distrust, together with a superiority complex, led us to this point.
  • 3 1
 @mitochris: bang on!
  • 2 0
 @jrocksdh: I was billing $5k an hour that night to sit at a facilty and wait for nothing to happen to the patient systems......
  • 5 3
 @mitochris: "The current administration will try to milk it as much as it can to show how brilliant it is." - absolutely. And, rightly so.
  • 24 62
flag k2rider1964 (Feb 1, 2020 at 7:22) (Below Threshold)
 @friendlyfoe: Coming from a country that voted for the pussy Trudeau who willingly handed over millions of dollars to a straight up terrorist....instead of killing him like he deserved. Trump is definitely not a polished politician, thankfully, but he's the best President we've had in my 50+ years. It's bad enough 8 years of Obama created a a nation that doesn't know the difference between a male and female, a nation that doesn't know which bathroom to use and record numbers of people with their hand out for freebies. Yeah, let's have more of that.
  • 17 10
 @k2rider1964: ok, boomer.
  • 16 8
 @k2rider1964: OK, boomer.
  • 8 4
 @kittenjuice: you sound like an idiot when you say that. Sincerely a fellow "millenial"
  • 11 9
 @k2rider1964: poor attempt at trolling. I mean if you agree with a racist guy with dementia that's cool but it doesn't exactly make people think highly of you.
  • 2 0
 @cky78: Yes! We want to see the video that follows the last one. Big hits!
  • 8 1
 @makripper: you want to argue with an old man about Donald Trump, but I'm the idiot?
  • 1 0
 @cky78: Just like the MRP bartlett review.
  • 1 0
 @Ritgut: its the future!
  • 1 0
 @mitochris: not quite. The British government hope to roll over the current terms under which they trade through EU treaties with non-EU nations. Few, if any, non-EU nations have agreed to this as yet, and have begrudgingly agreed to continue trading under the current [EU] terms for the transition period (i.e. the next 11 months) which is an ominous sign of what is to come after that.
  • 13 4
 @thenotoriousmic: please remember there are 50 states that comprise the US. There are vastly different world views within each of those states, along with various degrees of diversity. The majority of US citizens are educated, not corrupt, or have superiority complexes. I can not say that is true of our current president and his cabinet, so I can understand your sentiment. However, there is no reason to insult us. With all due respect, GB/ England has a long and colorful history of which includes much corruption, a superiority complex that enabled extremely destructive colonial Empire, and a public educational system that has a less than stellar record. Which is to say, all nations have their warts and GB is no exception. Europe and the rest of the world do not view GB as the Americans of Europe, they view your nation’s behaviors as your and you as the the Britons of Europe. I travel a lot, trust me, people dislike and identify GB’s brand of arrogance as distinctly British. I am ashamed Of many of the policies and behaviors of my government and US citizens that travel abroad, along with our domestic issues, but I own it and do not try and say it is just emulating other nation to defuse blame and responsibility. GB voters made their choice, your government is following policies that are similar to Distant past and resent past, and you have your own domestic and international issues currently. Just own it and don’t pretend that you are now emulating.
  • 4 1
 @Bliss503: I’m saying we’re very similar as in that we both think generally that our respective countries are the best in the world and everyone else is below us when quite clearly that’s not the case or we both wouldn’t have shanty towns in our richest city’s.
  • 4 2
 @RoadStain: Every other country looks out for its best interest, but we are a-holes when we do it.
  • 2 0
 @mitochris: Yeah, Obama had 1/2 his brain tied behind his back just to make it fair!
  • 5 9
flag RoadStain (Feb 1, 2020 at 16:10) (Below Threshold)
 @Bliss503: @Bliss503: @Bliss503: That is why I left Chicago (and put over 50 staff members out of their jobs in doing so). No corruption, excellent schools, reasonable taxes, and an overall feeling of well being as it is a "gun-free" city.....yeah. Sure.

Now, where I am most of us carry weapons day to day. The taxes are lower, the wages are higher and we do not worry so much about being a victim. Chicago is a mirror of most other large Dem run cities. Effectively, third world crap holes.
  • 3 0
 @RoadStain:
You missed the point and are off topic. But you did do an outstanding job of reenforcing world stereotypes of US citizens. Much appreciation xoxo
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic:
(Hand shake) and I agree with you there. Both countries have bad reps, and our respective current administrations aren’t helping sue to their approaches (political philosophies aside). I sincerely hope the exit from the EU does not have a material negative economic impact. All the best.
  • 2 0
 @Bliss503: To be fair your current president campaigned on "I love the poorly educated".
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: You must be talking about the Democratic Party.
  • 1 1
 @Bliss503: I traveled to Africa for months (it lived up to my expectations other than Cairo)...yep. A dump. Only missed Sally Struthers crying about the children.

As for the rest of the world. Well, just as my life is not a problem for those in Europe, theirs is not a problem for mine in the United States (the name of our nation, not the continent).
  • 1 0
 @Ritgut: That would more like the Grateful Donut.
  • 1 1
 @friendlyfoe: Mostly the country just wants to move on and Its about getting to run your country the way you want and not have a bunch of faceless un elected EU goons dictate the rules. Also a chance that if we voted in Boris we can get rid of Scotland, Ireland and Whales and London if we are lucky.
  • 2 1
 @mitochris: if the Germans decide to go for a Fourth reich we will just be a spectator this time around.
  • 2 1
 @mick-motor: you do understand that the EU is more democratic than your own Parlament.
  • 4 0
 @mick-motor: yes, I know they bombed your chip shops. But wow, you still see them as your enemy? I mean, c’mon you at least got one World Cup since.
  • 2 2
 @mitochris: its leaders are unknown in the UK to the ordinary man in the street. I never voted for these individuals. We believe in accountability in politics and the fact the EU looses 2 billion annually and no one is jailed is a scandal. We are better out and if after everything we get a trade deal with the US it means I get cheaper Chris King hubs and Gibson, Martin guitars then I'm all for going it alone.
  • 2 1
 @mitochris: I have German ancestry and I don't see them as the enemy they made my car. I think a Europe with a flag & an anthem and then decides it wants an army should be setting off alarm bells with its neighbours after all they do have form.
  • 2 0
 @mitochris: really I can vote out my MP if I feel its warranted. I couldn't even tell you how the EU get in or how they are dismissed.
  • 3 1
 @mick-motor: yes, you can vote off your MP just as much as you could vote out YOUR MEP. That’s the thing. Only because you didn’t inform yourself doesn’t mean that your presumptions were correct. Yes, you can do nothing about the MEPs from a different voting area/country, but the voters of Newcastle can do nothing about the fact that the rest of the country voted in the tories. In fact, with your “first to the post” policy, you are creating a less democratic environment than what you had in the EU, which was proportional.
And a European military, which doesn’t exists at the moment, would not be run by the Germans. It would’ve been run by the Brits and french. The German army is a joke and you know it. They can’t even run a school sailboat, let a lone a warship and their helicopters were all stranded accept one.
  • 4 1
 @mick-motor: and you believe in accountability? You must be joking me. You got BJ as PM. Brexit was based on a lie. Nothing the leave campaign said was remotely true, but as you admit yourself, the ignorant person believed what they said. As I said before, the EU is far from perfect, but given the size of the Eu it is efficient and democratic. Is there corruption? Most likely, like with all politicians. Do you really think BJ, Cummings (not elected by the way) is not working in the interests of someone? Really? Please do not be so gullible and think that they are doing it for the greater good.
  • 3 1
 @mitochris: can you imagine having to live on the same island as these mouth breathers? Wait until he finds out he’s the subject of an unelected monarch in 2020 not knowing he could vote for his MEP.

flag mick-motor (2 hours ago)

@mitochris: really I can vote out my MP if I feel its warranted. I couldn't even tell you how the EU get in or how they are dismissed.

Sorry mate not an excuse, it’s your responsibility to educate yourself before voting and if you didn’t know enough to make an informed decision maybe you should have stayed at home and maybe we wouldn’t be in such a mess right now.
  • 1 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Hey Knucklehead, Th U.S. was a colony of Britain. You were already that before the U.S. even existed.
  • 2 0
 @Raivkka: already what?
  • 2 0
 @friendlyfoe: history is important. i.always recommend the book by Hayek called 'the road to serfdom' as a basic "under the belt" read... 'common sense' is another just as Thomas Sowells' are for economics.
  • 2 0
 @mitochris: that was funny
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: well aren’t you just the globalists wet dream?
  • 2 0
 @CrispyNuggs: who do you think the tory party are? Who do you think funded the leave campaign? Sorry mate but you were duped into destroying our country just so a few billionaires could avoid the EU’s new taxation laws.
  • 1 0
 Yes of course. Think that if it makes you feel better.
  • 1 0
 Leaving the EU is fine, we’ll be absolutely fine. @thenotoriousmic:
  • 126 12
 A few points:

We don't leave tonight, we start the withdrawal process. Our official leaving date is currently December 31st. All we have done so far is negotiate the rules under which the withdrawal process will operate under.
No Deal is not off the table. If no deal is agreed by December 31st then we leave with No Deal and revert to WTO rules.
We will still pay in for the rest of the yer but have no say over anything and get nothing in return.
We are screwing ourselves over and strangely people are happy to celebrate this fact.

Think of it this way:

The vote was us deciding which bike park to ride at.
Ever since then we have been arguing/negotiating which trail we would take to the bottom.
That has now been decided and we start our descent tomorrow.
While we are on that descent we are negotiating what we will find at the bottom.
If we get a good deal it will be a safe run-out next to the cafe.
If we get a bad deal it will be into a prickly bush and a hike back up to civilisation.
If we don't agree a deal it will be a small jump off a very tall cliff.

Hands up who wants to stay in the bar at the top instead?
  • 22 38
flag mybaben (Jan 31, 2020 at 11:42) (Below Threshold)
 God speed mate!! (I wanted Corbin.)
  • 16 6
 i) We do actually leave the EU tonight. The transition period is just that, a transition period, UK membership ends at 23:00.
ii) Yup
iii) Not quite true, all EU funding will continue until the end of the transition period. We keep getting what we were getting until then, but have no representation to change it or renew any funding that expires in that time.
iv) Nobody looks very happy to me. Even Nigel King of the Gammons himself blurted out that a second referrendum wouldn't be a bad thing yesterday. Never thought I'd hear that.
  • 15 4
 Best analogy I’ve read to date. Has anybody commented on the irony that Boris Johnson claims to be such a big fan of Winston Churchill, but that Winston Churchill’s greatest wish post WWII was creating a “United States of Europe”? On top of that Brexit it seems stands a good chance of breaking up the UK. Ya know that little country that was united by Queen Anne and John Churchill the first Duke of Marlborough? Good lord how can the guy call himself an admirer of Churchill? He’s working non stop to undo everything the family was involved in creating!!
  • 3 0
 Nice example. I see ireland reuniting, scotland and wales asking for independence just to go back to EU
  • 5 1
 @fattyheadshok: Sorry dude I know where you're coming from & this isn't a dig or meant be a pedantic comment but, please remember the UK isn't a country, it's a state made of Nation countries that is (and I am a strong believer this isn't a threat as I'm all for Independence), on the brink of breaking up. And yes, Boris Johnson is a complete and utter walloper as we like to say in Scotland.
  • 3 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: explain the term gammon?
  • 5 1
 @fattyheadshok: Bojo would shit on Churchill’s grave if it meant he got to be prime minister.
  • 1 0
 @unleash: It's a term referring to the brexit-supporting stereotype found on tv; typically middle-aged and red-faced overweight blokes. In other words, with faces resembling a piece of gammon steak.
  • 4 2
 @unleash: A white, overweight, typically English (but can be Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish), right wing man or woman who vehemently supports Brexit. So called because their round faces and ruddy cheeks make them look like a raw gammon steak. Expect them to angrily and constantly make noise about how oppressed they are. Nigel Farage is their King, but Boris Johnson is their God.
  • 4 13
flag unleash (Feb 1, 2020 at 10:09) (Below Threshold)
 @Fix-the-Spade: so a slur based on someone's complexion or skin colour,nice ,how progressive of you.i knew full well what it meant,just wanted to hear your blatant racism ,you sound like some less articulate version of owen Jones.
Go back to the echo chamber from whence you came.
  • 10 1
 @unleash: I smell gammon.
  • 4 1
 @Malky79: I hear sizzling.
  • 2 4
 @Fix-the-Spade: not really I have no political affiliation, I distrust all politicians equally as well as their lackys and blind followers, left or right.
Your always writing bollocks on here and spouting your political vitriol ,its f*cking boring.
  • 2 2
 @unleash: Shave the beard mate your brain's overheating.
  • 3 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: ahh! Playground ad hominem jibes ,strong argument, I don't think!
  • 5 3
 @Fix-the-Spade: piss of you anti British left wing cultural Marxist. What YOU say is RACIST. Hypocrisy of the highest level.
  • 2 2
 @unleash: ignore the baby who didn’t get what he wanted!
  • 2 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: check out your own picture! You couldn’t even grow a beard. Pathetic.
  • 3 2
 @CrispyNuggs: Another thing about Gammons is they cannot resist the call of the capslock button.
  • 2 1
 @Malky79: I smell Nicola sturgeon
  • 2 2
 @Fix-the-Spade: go cry in silence sssshh
  • 1 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: calling people gammon when you look like the milky bar kid haha
  • 2 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: If we've now left why are we still paying for membership? Those payments will continue until we agree a deal or crash out without a deal, currently set for December 31st. It's why we are still trading under EU rules right now. As for EU funding: it has stopped. There's a few big infrastructure projects going on here that are massively EU-funded and the tap of money has now been switched off. There's money in the accounts but when it's gone that's it.
  • 1 2
 @DaMilkyBarKid: The payments are part of the withdrawal agreement Theresa (then Boris) and chums negotiated and Parliament signed into law, as is the continued funding and the continuing of the open borders until at least December. European funding grants are continuing as normal until December, no new ones can be given and none that expire can be renewed, but we're still giving and getting money until December.
The whole thing is on the Gov website, the Wikipedia page has a decent summary if you don't want to read a 500 page legal document (and I wouldn't blame you). www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration
  • 6 5
 @unleash: Well said. Racism by the lefty anti-racist, pro-immigration defenders of everyone but their own kind. The irony of the intolerance of those dictating tolerance to others
  • 5 2
 @supermike306: Sounds like a current US Democrat politician. Seriously.
  • 2 1
 @CrispyNuggs: What you and Nicola get up to as consenting adults is nobody else's business.
  • 5 2
 Here's my (borrowed) summary: the UK is the first country on history to impose economic sanctions on itself and 47% of its population think it's ok because of several thousand misguided reasons, 99% of which are bogus, but believed because they come out of the mouths of true patriots backed and cheered on by hostile foreign powers. Goodnight and God bless.
  • 2 1
 Impose economic sanctions on itself?! Hahaha @BenPea:
  • 2 2
 @CrispyNuggs: yeah, pretty funny huh. And that's just a fraction of the story. You should look into it yourself because I'm coming down from the anaesthetic needed for Brexiting. We're donating the organ to America for economic laboratory experiments.
Long live World King Boris!!
salamalikum gammonistas de la libertad!!!
  • 2 1
 The Eu just wants our money. That’s it. But yeah, resort to insults because that’s all you have now we are out of your beloved EUSSR @BenPea:
  • 2 1
 Also, why assume I like boris? Cos I don’t. I’m not fond of any politician or political party, but the Eu is a monster. @BenPea:
  • 1 0
 @CrispyNuggs:

No they also want our cooperation with medicine, finance, science, fight against large multinationals, security, help with the world’s problems, bank regulation, space exploration etc

A lot of which the uk isn’t big enough to do on its own at the same rate of progress as working together as a team with larger resources.

the uk’s net contribution of 8 billion isn’t all that much in the grand scheme of things.
  • 1 0
 @randomhero101: they also need help with audits and signing off the books, apparently
  • 3 0
 @randomhero101: every penny paid in you get 10p back in tax revenue from trade and investment. You understand this. Why doesn't he? The only reasons left are built on myriad and multiply debunked conspiracy theories, and the fact that they voted for it so it's a good idea. It all hinged on what proportion of the electorate would be triggered to act against their collective interests. They turned it into "us" versus the establishment, with the "us" simultaneously encompassing billionaires, toffs and the abandoned blue collar regions they f*cked over. But also the real red pill weirdos, and the xenophobes, racists, fans of war memorabilia, old people who are scared of brown people, cryptofascists, but most importantly (and read this Crispy) those who were lied to and swallowed it because they thought it was their last throw of the dice to have something that works out better for them. And the EU will be blamed when those folk get f*cked again...
  • 2 0
 @CrispyNuggs: fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget
Like you give a shit about accounting. Check out who funds the tories and come back to me about who's interests this farce is in.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: it’s more the fact the EU is deceitful. And they ignore referendum results if they don’t get the results they want. The EU army sounds good also. It’s rotten to the core. And I’m no tory either.
  • 3 0
 @CrispyNuggs: You do realise when you talk about the EU you would have included us in the conversation. We’ve been pretty much running the show with Germany and France. It’s more our rules and regulations we forced on the rest of Europe not the other way round. Human rights bill that these brexit dimwits hate so much, yeah that was one of ours as well. There’s a reason the uk government accepted 98% of eu legislation without question.
  • 1 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: There's also the Divorce Bill to pay.

As for funding continuing? Nope. I have friends who are directly in charge of receiving those funds for a few projects, The money has most definitely been cut off. That .gov link you've used has already been proven to be a bit economical with the truth, just read the recent news and you'll see that Boris and Co are already ripping it apart (declaring they will not align with the EU to help trade is one...). I'm fed up of talking about all this now as people are only believing what they want to believe, not looking at the facts. Back to reading about bike bling and planning future trips away with my bikes for me now.
  • 3 1
 @DaMilkyBarKid: "The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) – the UK’s public finances watchdog – expect that the UK will make payments into the 2060s, with around 70% of the cost coming in the first 4 years."
@CrispyNuggs just because school and your parents didn't equip you with critical thinking, doesn't mean you can't keep reading and learning. You can do better than just being a Brexit soundbite bingo machine. You've had years to properly look into all of this and develop a nuanced view. Just because it's too late now, doesn't mean you will benefit personally from cheering on the kleptocrats. They used you, and now they don't need you anymore you can kiss goodbye to everything they promised you.
  • 2 1
 Haha yeah that’s right. Look down your nose because someone has a different opinion. Totally happy we’ve left and that’s that. @BenPea:
  • 2 1
 @CrispyNuggs:

I fear you are getting the wrong end of the stick. My opinion isn't immune to doubt and when someone tells me something I check that they haven't just made it up. The stuff you are regurgitating shows that you do not. Humility is crucial. We can all be wrong, but there are tools you can use to avoid the most basic misconceptions. Just because the EU isn't perfect, doesn't mean you can call it the 4th Reich of the EUSSR. You just have to look at the farewells of the Brexit party compared with those of the "enemies" in Brussels. All of this is staring you right in the face.

Oh and :
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
Isaac Asimov
  • 2 0
 @CrispyNuggs it's pretty wrong to assume all intellectuals support remain. Although the media would have you believe that with their cherry picked interviews of Joe public
  • 2 0
 @randomhero101: totally get you om the need to work callaboratively. Although I don't think exiting the EU needs to stop that. I do think the EU is a wonderful idea, which is in principle great, but which has been abused by beaurocrats and national politicians alike. Blamed for things it is not necessarily at fault for perhaps. Inevitably we will lose out in some senses as undoubtedly will the EU. But we did vote out, so both our politicians and the EU need to get over the shock of their media propoganda not winning the referendum and deliver on the vote. I hope our politicians can get over the loss of all the loss of the gravy train with the nice lunches and lack of accountability, and get back to running the country.
  • 3 1
 @supermike306: You can be as reasonable as you like, but you too have got it all arse over tit. You don't burn the bus because you don't like the way the driver brakes late at traffic lights. Britain has been prised away from a solid and powerful block of Nations, with sovereignty pooled to a necessary degree, by those who stand to benefit from weakening the EU and being able to dump garbage into the UK market and engage in serious stock market f*ckery, among god knows what other things. All the 2016 claims have been discarded, but the propaganda was so pungent that it infected minds durably. Not least the winners skinning democracy and wearing it like an animal hide in 20,000 b.c., which is where this project is set for, to find out who the real natives are in the green and pleasant land of Britannia, and then you can all do one "back to where you all came from". Not talking about you specifically, of course. But gravy train... FFS. The Mail/Sun/Telegraph/social media soundbites are getting to me. Anyway, nazdarovya!
  • 2 1
 @BenPea: you assume as the media does, that leave voters even paid any attention to the leave campaign... It was deliberately full of absolute tripe, in an effort to make it look ridiculous. It was designed to be a one horse race. But this backfired because people were voting based on years of experience of policital decision making and politicians blaming the EU. There are also plenty of good reasons to leave, but I am not sure that most people were very familiar with these. To say that people voted upon the ridiculous claims of the campaigning is pretty insulting though. And insulting people only firms up their resolve to see us leave
  • 4 2
 @supermike306: ok, if I've understood, the leave campaign conspired with remain ("the establishment") to sound so ridiculous that only an idiot would buy their bullshit, thus assuring victory for the EU gravy trainers. However, people voted leave anyway because they were party to some covert intelligence regarding the nefarious agenda of the EU and not at all because they were gaslit by both Leave organisations, the far right and 40 years of wildly inaccurate tabloid propaganda, or because the remain campaign forgot to do its job properly. Jesus, the mental contortions people are engaging in to convince themselves they haven't been conned is simple next level. What have they done to you all?
If there are plenty of good reasons to leave, why are all the ones I've heard rooted in mis- and disinformation?
You might be bored of this, but democracy and thinking didn't stop on 31/7, much to the chagrin of the Dom and Boris party.
When someone has had 4 years to just scratch the surface a little bit and see what lies behind the soundbites they are parroting, you have to start asking whether they are worthy of respect.
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: a big problem was that quite a lot of people don’t understand what the EU is and what it does and why we was a part of it. I emphasise really because I was in a similar situation until I was in a four year relationship with someone with a politics PhD and basically got schooled on a daily basis. In the UK the day after the referendum what is the EU was most searched on google, highly irresponsible for the tories to put this decision in the ends of a uninformed public.
  • 1 1
 @thenotoriousmic: that's a f*cking understatement.
I hope you parted as friends and that she's now touring the country informing other lost souls in similar ways.
People are ignoring Occam's razor like there's no tomorrow. The Dreamworld they've created... England (not Britain) needs an exorcist and full-scale psychoanalysis.
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: You were spot on until the "party to covert intelligence" part. It was interesting for me when the referendum came along, as I had had to write an essay on whether we should leave the EU whilst studying an international studies degree around 2010/2011. So you ask "what have they done to you all" but I had done a fair bit of research and come to my own opinion way before the referendum came along. I had studied the workings of the EU and how it related to trade/trade blocs, national politics and decision making etc long before the leave campaign came along and supposedly brainwashed us all. Which is why I know there are good reasons to remain, but why I believe I made an informed voting decision.
  • 1 1
 @supermike306: yes, but something tipped you over the edge. And if you listen to British people with years and decades worth of experience of working in/with/for the EU or in trade/science/security/industry/you name it (did you do that?), you will know that no rational argument exists for leaving the EU in 2020 in the current economic, meteorological and geopolitical climate. Doesn't take much to trigger paranoia. What was it?
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: to be honest, if you listen to the groups of people you are suggesting, they most likely have a vested interest in remaining in the EU. So despite their greater knowledge of the EU, I doubt they would give a balanced opinion. There was no trigger, I just decided that on balance it was sadly better to get out. Certainly not a one way argument, but infuriating to see the political obstinacy that followed.
  • 2 1
 @supermike306: I didn't mention NHS doctors, the care sector, farmers, etc. Almost everyone has a vested interest in being in the EU, apart from the money launderers and crooks who birthed this brexit coup.
But I can see where you're coming from. However, your research would only carry weight if the UK had not already been in the EU for decades and grown symbiotically with the block as one of its main driving forces. It played a major role in shaping its laws and agreements, benefits from the presence of the millions of EU nationals residing in the country and sells half of its exports to EU countries. This is not the UK deciding whether to join EFTA/EEA as it tries to build a relationship from scratch, this is an exercise in pure destruction of an infinite number of mechanisms and intricacies that keep it on an even keel. It also threatens the union of the kingdom. Northern Ireland is basically gone, who'll be next? Even Rees Mogg said it would take 50 years for the benefits to be felt and he's a massive brextremist charlatan.
Last thing: you would probably argue for a Norway option, but that idea was binned long ago in favour of a reckless version of brexit. It is at that point that you should have started thinking about what is really going on here. And the current route being embarked upon is likely to end in a pretty sparse trade arrangement that will leave the country isolated and utterly vulnerable to major powers whose negotiating strategy will pay zero regard for Britain's self-perceived exceptionalism. There is no scenario in which the current approach to Brexit ends well for anyone but foreign exporters of substandard produce, big pharma in the US and hostile foreign nations who stand to benefit from a weaker west.
Capice?
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Wow, not long ago, in just under 50 years Europe was in TWO, yes TWO "World Wars". Do you really think that the 'human condition' has changed? While we are taller, live a tad longer and in general, are fatter....no, the human condition has not changed.

Fifty years is FAR too long a time to wait for a theory (that does not affect me as most of the decision-makers have zero chance of being vertical in fifty years).
  • 1 1
 @RoadStain: under 50 years? 70 if you do the ‘math’
  • 1 1
 Actually I need to do the ‘math’ it’s more like 80!
  • 1 0
 @CrispyNuggs: or, you can do the math. WWI started in 1914, WWII in 1939...as in "under fifty years", meaning that they did not learn a good enough lesson the first time around (and one generation had passed). I did not state it was X number of years ago...try to comprehend next time and your arugument will be far more valid.
  • 2 0
 Ok I misunderstood your comment fair enough @RoadStain:
  • 67 7
 One thing is for sure, I will enjoy shopping from UK websites & manufacturers while the pound is worthless for a while!
  • 13 0
 For the same reason, ride vacations in Canada are nice and cheap for all us down south Big Grin Maybe I can finally afford that Chromoly Stanton FS now!!
  • 20 8
 Why would the Pound depreciate any further than it has done relative to the Euro? Currency markets have priced in the current state of affairs already, the only - albeit somewhat likely - scenario in which Sterling will sustain further losses against the Euro (temporarily at least) would be one in which a trade agreement fails to be negotiated prior to December. I think just as likely as further depreciation is actually appreciation vs the Euro, as the Eurozone continues to stagnate (Q4 GDP numbers, particularly for Italy, are very poor) and the Chinese slowdown, worsened by the coronovirus, continues to hit German export figures.
  • 4 0
 Haha I had the same thought... maybe now a UK built bike will be affordable for the rest of the world. Big Grin
  • 28 3
 @phonk7: I didn’t understand a word you said there but I appreciate the effort
  • 4 5
 @dannyhuber: The Canadian dollar is in no way tied to the GBP.
  • 10 27
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 31, 2020 at 12:57) (Below Threshold)
 What’s with that Corona virus? When Swine flu panic was raised in Sweden by No one else but Swedish own government, the only slow down was people lining up for the vaccine and then getting sick for a few days afterwards. Which was ironically hilarious... I’m no antivaccer, on the contrary but that sht spun out of control before it even got here... it was indeed very Swedish to raise awareness to a rather weak virus, way less potent that regular fricking flu viruses popping up in Europe every year, yielding thousands of kills without anyone making a tiniest deal out of ot
  • 7 1
 @MtbSince84: @MtbSince84: WOOSH, did you even read his comment? Let alone this thread? The british pound has deflated since brexit was announced thus making british produced products more attractive to euro customers, much like how the Canadian Dollar losing value over the last decade(roughly since 2011) to the USD has made Canadian travel more attractive to American consumers...

There I just literally explained it for you in one sentence.

and, @WAKIdesigns where the f*ck did that just come from, assuming you replied to the wrong thread on accident?
  • 3 3
 @pbfan08: you got it. I just wish our dollar was stronger and less tourists were here.
  • 12 5
 Unfortunately Germany’s economy will quickly advance down the shitter now they have to fully subsidise the EU.
  • 3 0
 @phonk7: thanks for the econ lesson.
  • 1 0
 @phonk7: To play devils advocate the extended argument (that I really don't know if the OP was making) could be that new trading rules under especially a no deal brexit will hamper trade, cause a recession and hurt the Pound. I had to do a quick little search to learn more about how recessions affect currency but the real issue seems to be in Britain's trade deficit.
"Many factors affect the value of a currency. For example, if the UK had a large current account deficit, then we might expect this trade deficit to put downward pressure on the currency. The fall in the value of Sterling in 2008 was partly related to the UK’s trade deficit and lack of competitiveness."
www.economicshelp.org/blog/9746/currency/happens-value-currency-recession
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: Quite opposite. Without UK's opt-outs it will be easier for them to push other EU countries into Eurozone, which will make currency even weaker, which is good for export, and Germany's economy is based on it.
Remind yourself how much flak China gets for manipulating its currency. Germany can operate on artificially weak currency, because it is shared with less developed economies. It is the reason you have affordable brands like Canyon, YT, and Rose originating in Germany, not in UK.
  • 3 2
 So the Euro is less than worthless?
  • 3 0
 @Vulhelm: it's just a great uniting symbol at the expense of any economic and monetary rationality.
  • 2 5
 @onemind123: don't vote for a pussy then.
  • 2 1
 The only reason that Germany can maintain a competitive currency and run such a large trade deficit is because you outsourced deflation to the Eurozone periphery. You are not as clever as you think you are.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: subsidize? free money doesn't exist my friend, the countries that were subsidize the most are now half owned by german banks and paying well. Germany kept greek left down, Spain was forced to make an express change in the Constitution, declaring paying the debt an absolute priority over the needs of the country, and so many things I'm not aware of
  • 2 1
 @ismasan: we both know Greece went way over board with spending money they don’t have and have nothing To pay back with other than Olives. Spain also went bananas but at least they can put their sht together and be productive like Ireland. Nobody is saint here, defo not Germans but world is shaped the way it is, nothing is fair, will never be fair and certain kids run away with heavy shit and some end up in principals office for nothing. When you are the latter, you may try your luck but better lay in the cut and don’t push it too much.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: oh yeah, and I'm a firm believer in that people have the goverments they deserve. Also, independently of how the money was spent, billions were given no questions asked. Is a middle-long term strategy used forever, you give 'free money' to a given collective and it'll self destruct, then you can do whatever with them.
  • 1 1
 @ismasan: that would be a neat strategy if Greeks could offer you something once you enslave them economically. But what can they give you? Olives, Ouzo? 5 star hotell in price of 3 star? If Greeks didn’t have Euro they’d be reduced to pre uprising Tunisia. Spain, Italy, Ireland, Poland, what not grow lots of food, and have some industry, including high tech sectors.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I don't know what the bigger plan is, man, but for sure there's one.
Maybe control future's solar power production? Greece has hours of sun, lots of it. Who knows.
  • 2 0
 @phonk7: you put your money where your mouth is and sell puts?
  • 1 0
 @superdez75: wtf you talkin about?
Trade deficit what?? Germany has a surplus..
Ousourced deflation to maintain competitive currency?? Currency is pushed down due to inflation, not deflation..

I guess you were just trolling, and you got me, pretending not to know economics 101
  • 55 11
 I apologise to all our European friends.
Please don't forget 48.1% of us wanted to remain and were happy being part of the big European family.
Sad day...
  • 12 28
flag jclnv (Jan 31, 2020 at 19:38) (Below Threshold)
 Don’t worry, the UK is still in Europe. We’re just no longer part of the Union of Eurocrats.
  • 16 6
 Or happy day for 52%
  • 5 7
 Why apologise? A lot of the ordinary people of europe also dislike the EU.Just because you don't see it on the TV don't believe they all love the EU. You see their EU loving politicians only. And just because the majority of the UK wanted to out of the EU doesn't mean those same people don't like the rest of our European neighbours-EU and Europe are not the same thing at all.
  • 5 1
 @supermike306: I fking love the EU.
  • 32 0
 Were Harry and Meghen part of this deal? How did Canada get involved? Can we expect to see them riding trails in bc on steel hardtails? How much Maple syrup did Canada agree to supply the UK? I need answers!
  • 5 1
 Of course. Oh, you know...once part of the empire... With 160mm forks. A shit ton.
  • 5 1
 You joke, but one of Victoria's classic riding areas is now under development. It's one of the places where land is being bought by the crazy rich, and it's one of the places the Sussexes were seen!
  • 1 0
 @micahaalders3: you know I wonder if...tastes like warm maple syrup...
  • 2 1
 @micahaalders3: agreed, don't even f*ck around, as an Islander, it scares the shit outta me. stop coming here rich bastards and f*ck you royalty!
  • 1 0
 @micahaalders3: what area?
  • 2 0
 @ridelife6: Willis Point. There's already construction that shut down Fisbee Golf DH and RedBack Frown
  • 26 5
 The amount of "funded by the EU" signs you pass on all sorts of infrastructure on the way to Bike Park Wales is always a timely reminder of what we get out of being a member. @jamessmurthwaite did you contact any bike parks / trail centres about what impact they may see?
  • 24 39
flag Davec85 (Jan 31, 2020 at 12:32) (Below Threshold)
 "In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion."

Good value for money right enough.
  • 19 4
 @Davec85: does this consider the benefits of being in the largest trading bloc in the world?
  • 32 11
 @Davec85: lost growth since the Brexit vote is thought to be around £130bn

(Based on us going from top to bottom of the G7 for growth)

That's more than we contributed for the last 45 years of membership

We've had to hire 20,000 civil servants since the vote (biggest increase since the war)

We've wasted £billions so far, when there are real issues the country should've been dealing with

It's an embarassment
  • 15 31
flag jaame (Jan 31, 2020 at 13:32) (Below Threshold)
 @Kimbers: It's not. I don't feel embarrassed by it at all.
  • 10 4
 @Davec85: "In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion."

The problem with that statistic is that it only counts direct contributions to the UK public sector, it doesn't count private sector contributions nor does it count other EU wide positives.

My point is that simply looking at as money directly in and out of the government isn't the whole picture and it is far more complicated than any sounds bite or simple statistic can spell out.

Add onto that that we don't really know what Brexit is going to be yet, so it's almost impossible to make any fair comparison.
  • 9 2
 @Kimbers: in the US, needlessly hiring 20,000 civil servants would be touted as "lowering unemployment!". There are always going to be financial fallout effects from any major government change, I'm sure the UK will barely lose its stride.
  • 12 18
flag jclnv (Jan 31, 2020 at 19:43) (Below Threshold)
 @Kimbers: Stop reading the Guardian.

“With the 0.3pc expansion reported on Monday, Britain has now had 13 quarters of economic growth since the Brexit referendum. The evidence is irrefutable: the UK economy has grown faster than Germany, France and the eurozone as a whole for most of the last two years. It is has outgrown several west European states even since the vote.

Totting up the exact numbers, it is no longer excusable for the Remainer establishment, the Liberal Democrats, and allied think tanks, to keep claiming that the UK economy is 3pc smaller than it would have been without Brexit, or that we are “3pc poorer” in Westminster parlance.”
  • 9 6
 @Kimbers: Now we'll waste billions more trying to sort this f*ck up. Worst decision this country has ever made
  • 9 3
 @jclnv: @kimbers
Yeh you should read the Sun or watch fox news instead and get the "real facts"
  • 5 0
 @jclnv: I don't know this quick search suggests the first quarterly contraction in 7 years and weakest growth in 10. tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth

Economics is kind of annoying to debate though. As they say you can prove anything with statistics, and economists usually do.
  • 11 1
 Nearly every trail centre in Wales exists directly due to EU funds. After the Foot-And-Mouth outbreak rural regeneration was key and the EU stepped in to kickstart all of these projects, these original centres have been the catalyst for others that have also received help. Off the top of my head the list goes like:

Cwmcarn.
Afan and Glyncorrwg.
Brechfa.
Cwm Rhaeadr.
Nant Yr Arian.
Bike Park Wales.
Coed Y Brenin.
Antur Stiniog.

The rest may have had direct funding but I don't know but they will have definitely benefited from the other schemes the EU paid for. If you travel to BPW you are guaranteed to drive on one of the roads that the EU helped fund, the current Heads Of The Valley rebuild was EU funded but will no longer be, god knows if it will be completed in full let alone the current section! If you look down on Merthyr from BPW's cafe outdoor seating over half of what you see (retail parks, industrial units, the town centre rebuild) was funded by the EU.

But all of this was dismissed as the EU paying in a tenner, putting up a sign and claiming it as theirs when the reality is that the vast majority of it wouldn't have happened without the European Regional Development Fund. Even their offices were in Merthyr but tht has now closed costing ~200 jobs.

What the future holds for the bike parks and trail centres is anyone's guess, that includes all the businesses that cater for them too. Hotels, campsites, cafes, bike shops etc. This is just the Welsh ones too, the English and Scottish ones had similar help.

@jamessmurthwaite a follow-up article would be great!
  • 1 0
 @DaMilkyBarKid: thanks for the insight! I was familiar with some of it but it's certainly more than I knew. The Heads of the Valley build is quite something, hopefully that budget has been locked in and able to be completed!
  • 11 4
 @jaame:

We've just decided to throw up barriers to half of our foreign trade

We've removed freedoms & rights from our own passports that they previously held

We've removed our voice from one of the world's biggest democratic institutions

We've increased the price of everything we buy, fall in £ has made everything more expensive & cost average family >£2000

The worst thing is that half the country voted to do this against half the country that never wanted it.

That's way the country has been poisoned & divided for a generation.

Of course it's an embarrassment
  • 4 3
 @jclnv: thats a very selective & misleading reading of the numbers! (Especially switching between 2 & 3.5yr comparison)

Over the 3.5years since the vote UK has grown slower than eurozone, including France & Germamy.

Before that Britain has almost always grown faster than eurozone .

The point is that since the ref we have gone from top to bottom of G7 & stayed there persistently, which is where the damage is being done as growth usually comes & goes in cycles of fast/slow growth, we are stuck in the slow lane in the part of the cycle we would normally have grown fast in.

That's why it's entirely credible to say that we've lost 3% of growth since the ref.

Even the government's own estimates say we won't be back to 'normal' pace until 2025
  • 5 10
flag Vulhelm (Feb 1, 2020 at 2:52) (Below Threshold)
 You know the EU isn't a free club right? We paid FAR more than we got out of it to prop up the low contributors
  • 8 3
 @Vulhelm: yes that’s part of the eu model bringing on less developed nations so that the become more of a market for our goods.

Also looking at net contributions only is rather short sighted you also need to take into account all the additional income that came from the single market. Not to mention all the savings of havIng joint administrations etc.

The country will be worse off financially than we were before.

But my main worry now is employment rights. I feel without the EU to help protect workers and a strong Tory government Employment rights are going to take a beating.
  • 2 6
flag Vulhelm (Feb 1, 2020 at 4:12) (Below Threshold)
  • 7 2
 @Vulhelm:

Well that explains your understanding of the EU
  • 3 1
 @Kimbers:

"We've just decided to throw up barriers to half of our foreign trade"

It's worse than that. Far worse. Trade tariffs are the "easy" and relatively predictable bit. It's the 100% Non-Trade Barriers (NTB) that are going to do far more damage. These are quite simply barriers to conducting trade that are not resolved with something like paying a tariff or agreeing to a quota (although quotas once exceeded become 100% NTB until the given time period lapses).

Below is only _one_ example of an industry being cut off overnight:

Currently a British legal barrister can present before the European Patent Office for intellectual property submissions. After the transition period that ceases. Period. That means the British legal profession loses all access to the European patent office, both for British and non-British clients. Further, any company wishing to file intellectual property submissions before the European patent office now has to expend double the cost and effort to protect their work; once in the UK, and then they have to seek out EU-based representation.

Whilst a lot of people will snort and deride the example because it's "lawyers, all a bunch of tossers"; it affects companies needing to protect their IP, pushing up costs to do so and making attempts to protect their rights more difficult.

And that's all before we even start talking about the expiration of all existing international trade treaties with more than 65 other countries.
  • 1 2
 I should hope so too the amount of money we put into the EU as net contributors. Good of them to give some back I guess?
  • 2 0
 I have an interesting question. The UK has historically been a net contributor. People say that we pay a lot in, but we get so much back in a lot of other ways, which I think is probably true (I'm not an expert but it makes sense).

My question is, if the UK gets all these other benefits by being in the EU, don't all the other countries in the EU also get the same benefits? Including the ones that take billions out of the EU?

If everyone gets the same benefits, why are some paying in and some taking out? That doesn't sound fair to me.

Can anyone explain that one? The obvious answer would be to say that the net contributors are paying to improve the quality of life in the other countries. Or is there more to it?
  • 4 1
 Also mentioned was the South Wales bike park scene being funded by the EU. We paid in £15 billion and they gave us £4 billion back (probably not in the same fiscal year - so my guess is more like we paid in £75 billion in that time frame).

But the £4 billion is acceptable because hey, we got so many other unquantifiable benefits out of it.

Money does not grow on trees! If that money went in, it also went out somewhere. Somewhere was not south Wales!
  • 3 1
 @jaame: stop talking sense! Lol. Think of it like a Friday night dinner club-around 20 friends of varying wealth go out every Friday for dinner. The top 3 or 4 pay the bill and everyone eats. It helps everyone-yay for that what a nice thought. Each friend has an equal vote on where they are eating despite whether they paid or not. One day one of the friends who happens to be one that pays, tells the others it's leaving and the group is not happy-no surprise from the other payers as they will have to fill the gap. The leaver is fed up of paying lots in and being told what to eat and drink by a bunch of non payers.

That's how I look at it on the money front. A strong argument along with the argument of making your own national politicians more accountable rather than blaming the EU for many things as they have done over the years-they have created their own problem here in that sense. And that includes many pro remain politicians.
  • 2 0
 @secondtimeuser: The Welsh Assembly have already had to step in to guarantee the funds just for this section alone! The contractor, Costain, were being paid upon each stage of the build being completed to spec and on time, as soon as the Government triggered Article 50 those payments from the EU stopped and for a week everyone downed tools. Once the Welsh Assembly guaranteed the future payments work restarted but at a much smaller scale as the Assembly has much smaller pockets. It's one of the reasons it's over 2 years behind schedule now. The section between Dowlais and Hirwaun is yet to start and won't now until the current works are finished and a budget is agreed. I have my doubts about it ever being done.
  • 1 0
 @jaame:

If you want to know the true figures info is here

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

But around 1% of total uk spending is what we used to pay in and not get anything direct back.
  • 1 0
 @randomhero101: I read it. The takeaway is that the UK pays a lot of money in every year. 32p per person per day. Wow.
  • 1 0
 @jaame:

£8bn isn’t a lot of money when it comes to government contracts. It’s like 3 weeks of running the nhs or about 2 miles of hs2
  • 1 0
 @randomhero101: or enough money to build all the bike parks in Wales, twice
  • 26 7
 UK leaving EU is a dark sign. It has been 75 years from the war and people seem to have forgotten the main reason for the birth of EU. Nevertheless, I respect their choice.
  • 13 9
 The European Economic Community never was a regional security organization, and the EU never was meant to be one either. The UK wasnt an original member of the EEC, and it shouldn't be a surprise to see a country want to pull out of the EU after decades of membership.
  • 17 5
 @onlyDH: Yes it was and still is. Security through economic dependency is one of the principles the EU is founded on.
  • 5 2
 @onlyDH: in order to understand the importance of the birth of EU, you have to be transfered in that hostile period. Women and children have lost their husband's and fathers. There was only one way to change their mentalita about the "enemy". That was collaboration with the hope of improving everyday life. Please do not judge that period wearing modern glasses. It was a difficult period.
  • 3 0
 @onlyDH: The origins of the EEC were in the Coal and Steel Community. The whole aim behind it being to make war between France and Germany not just unthinkable but materially impossible.
  • 33 12
 Fuck Brexit
  • 37 21
 Everyone’s welcome in Sweden. Weather’s better but it still rains a lot so you won’t get home sick...
  • 19 0
 Leave that invitation to Swedes, you can invite to Poland Smile
  • 22 17
 hahaha live level refuge calling for more refugees to swedustan
  • 14 9
 You already have way too much immigrants you dont want more people lol
  • 10 18
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 31, 2020 at 11:28) (Below Threshold)
 @Kaspy: Who else if not Czech people you would scratch their forehead they heard someone go: “oh I’d love to move to Poland”.

I pay taxes in Sweden, so it’s also on me. Considering how many fans of BTR, Stanton, Cotic, Hope and more live in Gothenburg, I doubt anything would mind Smile
  • 37 29
 @vitality: we definitely don’t need more morons saying Sweden will soon introduce Sharia law and Swedish women are afraid to go out alone after dark. Retards like Polish prime minister or Hungarian president suffice...
  • 5 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 31, 2020 at 11:35) (Below Threshold)
 @endlessblockades: I know! I saw this! So what is it now? Half of California and Oregon are positive?
  • 2 7
flag scott-townes (Jan 31, 2020 at 11:42) (Below Threshold)
 I think I'm white enough to be accepted by Sweden's government. See you in a few years.
  • 13 13
 @scott-townes: actually in Sweden you are much more likely to be too white or too pink in this society than to color. Also you better be at least 50% green and 25% red. Swedes are quite liberal unless it comes to taxes and drugs, because you can steal 20mln dollars and they will put you in a room with TV and Netflix but if you mess with tax office they will lock you up in a Male harem... you also better not be checked with a bit more weed on you. They will go to your job, put social service on your kids and generally make your life tough for some time. But please drink yourself unconscious on every pay friday
  • 6 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 31, 2020 at 12:05) (Below Threshold)
 @scott-townes: but in return for Tax and drug nazism you get ok to work 32-36h a week, flexible working hours in consultant jobs, it is easy to negotiate longer unpaid holidays, 140 days (or something) of parental leave to divide between two parents paid 80% of your original salary. It is perfectly normal and even expected to stay home when you are sick and that includes being depressed. Actually if you come to work with a fever, cough and sneeze you immediately land on top of the “to fire” list and if you have stomach flu and come to work? You get deported. So yea taxes, drugs and stomach flu... you may need to get used to coffee breaks... especially the long one on friday. You better show up.
  • 11 1
 @WAKIdesigns: "actually in Sweden you are much more likely to be too white or too pink in this society"

Fine, I wont bleach my ass hole.
  • 4 7
 @WAKIdesigns: please don’t forget that it is totally ok to stay at home (paid) if your child is ill, and if a holiday falls on a Thursday you might as well stay at home on Friday, because, .... , why not.
  • 2 3
 @mitochris: jesus christ how do yall get anything done haha
  • 6 1
 @WAKIdesigns: "Retards like Polish prime minister or Hungarian president suffice"
The correct term is "politically challenged".
  • 5 4
 @pinoteres: they win elections because they are so dumb that they appear relatable to morons and damage basic forms of intelligence. Like people who use propping system.
  • 1 1
 got any of the 2005 saab 9-2X aero lying around?
  • 1 0
 @scott-townes: how is this not the top comment?
  • 4 3
 @WAKIdesigns: What you mean the independent Pew Research that says Muslims will be over 30% in Sweden by 2050 at present immigration/birth rates?
  • 2 0
 Until Swexit.
  • 1 0
 @pinoteres: Ha, you forgot our always sober politically correct Czech president! Same shit, different state...
  • 4 1
 @jclnv: by 2050 at least half of them will be atheists... I know three who transitioned and now get hostile towards the religious ones.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: That is encouraging to hear.
  • 4 0
 @jclnv: I will present you with a real life situation that I experienced. A bunch of teenagers come to a lake to have a picnic. A couple of them jump into water. A girl in some sort of muslim clothing stays on the beach. Off course. After a few minutes takes it all off but keeps the hair cover. After few more minutes she takes it off too. Peer pressure... the low hanging fruit, fun VS dumb beliefs
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: so basically any right wing in any country.
  • 1 1
 @reverend27: what do you mean?
  • 19 3
 Brexiteers - they would have voted Trump if they were Americans.
  • 3 5
 I take that as a complement.
  • 15 1
 "What Does Brexit Day Mean for the British Bike Industry?"


"...............apparently nothing"
  • 13 13
 Who would have thought it?

Whoever wrote this article has obviously been under a rock for years.

Planes are going to fall out of the sky, schools and hospitals will all close down, and if we're really unlucky the world will explode.

It's happening tonight!
  • 5 1
 @jaame: no it happens at the end of the year.
  • 3 1
 @jaame: nothing will change until the end of the year as the article states then it depends on weather a deal can struck or not !
  • 1 0
 @Matt115lamb: but the planes Matt, the planes!

The hospitals!
  • 5 3
 @jaame
In 2015, the Conservatives promised 5,000 more GPs by 2020. By 2018, the NHS had 148 fewer doctors than three years earlier, and the pledge was quietly dropped. They promise 50,000 new nurses when the real figure is 25,000 . They promise 20,000 new police but that just covers the 20,000 they got rid of over the last 10 years !
It seems that they just say whatever they like to get votes and it works, a bit like that CLOWN over the pond (who’s trial will not have any witnesses, well done America) !
  • 3 0
 @Matt115lamb: What are you saying, politicians are dishonest? Is that exclusively limited to the British Conservative Party?
  • 2 2
 @jaame: they’re in power mate so are accountable !
  • 1 0
 its certainly not going to improve some articles on pinkbike
  • 4 0
 @Matt115lamb: dude if you're gonna get upset about political promises that aren't met, you're gonna get pissed by every politician there is.
  • 2 1
 @Matt115lamb: why don't you read a book about how an impeachment trial works you putz.
  • 3 1
 @zaalrottunda: it isn’t the broken promises, it is that the country is going backwards. Fewer nurses and doctors is an indication that things are getting worse - unless it is because people are not getting ill, which I doubt.
  • 2 1
 @LAT2: You're born, you live and then you die. Not if but when. All doctors and nurses do is make the bit in the middle a bit longer. Have you seen the life expectancy in western Africa? It's like, 40 or something. We've already got it pretty good in comparison.
  • 1 0
 @zaalrottunda: dude who’s getting upset , I just stated some things that a government promised and failed to deliver ! If you’re happy with that then fine !
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5: putz is abit ott , have you read that book ?
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5: nothing says guilty like banning witnesses and evidence you putz !
  • 1 0
 @Matt115lamb: took a minute to get that bat off your shoulder, eh?
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5: it popped into my head , true btw !
  • 1 0
 @Matt115lamb: sure thing old chap, cheerio.
  • 19 8
 The way to get Scotland out of the UK is to give the English people the vote, not just the Scots. They'd vote them out tomorrow. Scotland can then see how far it gets with EU support (it would have to apply) , using their own currency, (why assume they could use the Pound ) and find someone else to give them the money to give their citizens free prescriptions and free higher education even though the rest if UK doesn't get it but pays them for it.
  • 2 0
 Wales get free prescriptions, it's about the only thing we do get but it's better than nothing. Just!!!!
  • 8 1
 Yes please! Would love the English to vote too! In fact an English Independence referendum would be lovely.
  • 4 4
 The pound is as much Scotland’s currency as it is England’s !
  • 10 4
 @chilliwacker comment of the day. Give England the vote to get us the f*ck out! Yes imagine our Scottish Parliament giving us free health care and education. It's so backwards isn't it!?!? Who would ever want these things? Mental....



Belter.
  • 4 2
 @puddinghead: if I can have asylum I would gladly vote for Scottish independenceWink
  • 6 0
 @puddinghead: nothing is free my man
  • 6 1
 @deli-hustler: Yeah thanks for going to the docs with a hangover and getting your 25p paracetamol on prescription that costs the taxpayer £10. Hoorah for free shit
  • 3 0
 a lot of the scots i work with don't want to leave the UK ...im waiting for the 2021 version of braveheart to be fair
  • 1 1
 @timbud: the last time I had anything to do with the NHS was to have my daughter born, 4 years ago.
  • 2 0
 @deli-hustler: and the 48 times you paid tax since then.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: meant taken out of the NHS.
  • 1 0
 @deli-hustler: I know exactly what you meant. I was pointing out that you didn't get very good VFM from the NHS in the last four years.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: I know sucks doesn't, but before she came along I've had xrays for bike crashes and stuff.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: it’s not really about value for money , taxes are a price you pay to live in a civilised society ! Lower tax societies are usually not as nice to live in as higher tax societies ! Unless it’s run by some mad kleptocrat like Putin !
  • 15 4
 A bad new among the others: so many British living in France for years have been asking for french nationality and are having it or will get it pretty soon. So they artificially boost the french population this way.
British becoming froggies, if God would have imagined such a thing!!! Pffff....
Just kidding. They are welcome to stay with us... on the ``right side on the Channel``. Wink
Cheers mes amis!
  • 4 1
 Am personally not at all looking forward to the que at the ferry in Calais. I don’t for one second thing the french aren’t going to milk this for every second they can!!
  • 3 1
 @commentsectiontroll: Oui oui, nous aussi on t`aime.
  • 19 7
 More concerned about what brexshit means for the NHS... an so should all UK MTB'ers
  • 9 7
 might be positive for NHS. ATM people from EU that travel to UK have a right to use the service for free. that might be over after 31-12-2020
  • 6 1
 @vhdh666: I don't think that's a very big number of NHS patients though. I personally hope we'll keep European Health Insurance, or any system whereby UK citizens are covered in the EU and EU citizens are covered in the UK.
  • 9 7
 If it reduces mass immigration it will massively reduce the burden on the NHS.
  • 7 10
 @jclnv: racist is a racist, Why are all your posts on this thread about 'mass immigration'? Are you a native Canadian? If so I apologise but, probably not so Then shut/grow the f*ck up

My concern is more about wether there will still be an NHS. A while back, Lockheed Martin tried to buy for want of a better description, a controlling share of the NHS. I remember this because a massive online petition went to the UK Gov & EU monopolies comish to block it...
Leaving the EU has allways been about the sale of the NHS....
  • 7 16
flag jclnv (Jan 31, 2020 at 21:23) (Below Threshold)
 @nojzilla: Mass immigration of Pakistani Muslims is costing the NHS over 600 million per year from birth defects caused by inbreeding.

Although I agree, the NHS shouldn’t be sold off.
  • 8 7
 @jclnv: underfunding is the single biggest threat to the NHS. I have many family and friends that work in the NHS an I trust them more than your racist bullshit
  • 4 7
 @nojzilla: Everything I stated is fact you drone.
  • 4 7
 @jclnv: oh f*ck you you scum, drone? Ok what ever.... if a white English person can eat themselves into morbid obesity or smoke an drink themselves into cancerous mess. If white english drug addicts can get free A&E trips an free methadone only to fall straight back into addiction then your supposed birth defects have every right to free healthcare paid for by the taxation on any penny the spend in the UK.
  • 10 10
 @nojzilla: They’re not white English, they’re just English. Unlike the Pakistani people living in England. If you moved to China would you call yourself Chinese? The BBC and Guardian has done a number on you eh? Luckily the majority won over your clucked, woke, ideology.
  • 6 4
 Never bought a newspaper in my life. Never paid the bbc tax (tv licence) in my life. I call it like I see it. An if some body thinks one person deserves more than another because of color of skin or wether they Pakistani or english born an uses that ideology as political legitimacy then a racist is a racist is a racist
  • 8 6
 @nojzilla: See that’s why you lost the vote and the Cons got in with a landslide. You call people racist when they state clear facts. You know, like how mass immigration fractures social cohesion, how middle eastern migration increases terrorism and industrial scale child rape, or how African migration increases knife crime to a western culture highpoint in the nations capital.

No doubt You would argue they’re all positive values of mass immigration, oh sorry, cultural diversity. I’m sure the victims of the above would appreciate your tolerance.
  • 12 6
 @jclnv: You are the black hole into which society will collapse.
  • 8 0
 @jclnv: that's just BS though isn't it?
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/high-immigration-nhs-crisis

Old people, fat people, technology and drugs, combined with lower budgets/lack of investment are whats killing the NHS
  • 3 3
 @jclnv: yeah actually now I think aboot it.. you're right. You've changed my mind. Immigration an especially Pakistani Muslim immigrants are to blame for everything wrong in my life an society............
¿
  • 7 4
 @jclnv: I call you a racist because youre a racist. State all the political spin made up to be facts all you want.
The cons won this election because labour where a mess, they offered no decisive opposition an tried to keep every one happy instead of standing up spin an out right lies.
  • 5 3
 @jclnv: and as for 'me' losing the vote... how do you know what I voted? Another laughable concept just labeling me a woke lefty
  • 6 2
 @nojzilla: I think anyone who pays tax and lives full time in the uk should have access to the NHS, and anyone from other countries with whom we have a reciprocal healthcare agreement such as Australia.
Also I think the NHS should be means tested like speeding tickets, so people who can afford to pay more for treatment do pay more. They could also use a student laid type system where you get given a bill for treatment which you will never pay if you can’t afford to. Everyone goes on about the NHS being free, but nothing is free. It’s costing me a shit ton of money every month through my taxes. The American system is a joke and we should definitely avoid that system, but I feel that some people here live very unhealthy lives knowing the NHS will be there to fall back on and that their expensive heart surgery will not cost them anything extra.

I bought a newspaper once because my friends overseas didn’t believe there were sheilas showing their boobs on page 3. And now, thanks to someone complaining about it (probably a woman) there are no more boobs. What a shame someone took it upon themselves to decide how those women were allowed to make a living.
  • 5 5
 @jclnv: you should be banned ! You name is marked !!
  • 2 2
 @jaame: you started off so well but the more you think the worse it gets . Nobody eats , drinks like a pig , smokes 50 a day and sit’s around the house watching a flatscreen tv all day because the nhs will fix them later ! Lol
No comment on the page 3 bit Confused
  • 3 1
 @Matt115lamb: I'd go and speak with someone that works for social services or does support work for a council. You'd be gobsmacked how many actually do just that.
  • 3 2
 @Matt115lamb: Maybe not, but the NHS will fix them later, and someone is paying for that. Maybe you don't care about spending your money on other people but I'm a stingy and selfish person, and given the choice I would prefer a system of lower taxation in which you pay for what you use. That includes healthcare, education, the roads. Like they very successfully operate in Taiwan. 4% income tax and very affordable health insurance controlled by the government covering the basic level of care only. For example, if you tear your rotator cuff, the insurance will pay for your ultrasound scan. If that's not good enough you can have an MRI, but you are going to pay for it yourself. If something more serious goes wrong you can have a hospital bed on a ward. If you want a private room you are paying for it yourself. They are not going to let anyone die but like anything there is a graduated product range, and only the bottom of the range product is included in your health insurance. I know a lot of people would not prefer that system, but I would. Of course the government would have to regulate it so that this kind of thing would be not for profit, otherwise things would get out of hand quickly, like in the case of healthcare in the USA or even car insurance in this country.
It's not black and white but the current system is far from perfect especially as the birth rate is falling, the population is ageing and getting top heavy, and people are making unhealthy lifestyle choices and getting fat.
  • 1 0
 @timbud: there might be the odd couple here and there but they ain’t the problem with the nhs
  • 2 1
 @jaame: let’s just pay abit more tax and tax the giant companies what they’re supposed to pay !
  • 2 0
 @Matt115lamb: finally something we can agree on. Tax the big boys appropriately.
  • 2 5
 @mat8246: maybe he will get cancer and some immigrant specialist might have to save his life who knows karma
  • 6 3
 @mat8246: No. We are the ones who will fight for national sovereignty against the globalist agenda and myth that all cultures are equal.

I suggest you visit some majority Muslim countries to see how well their societies are flourishing. A realty check might reverse your ideologue view of reality.

@bainbridge: A contributing factor but yes, there’s many aspects. I was just pointing out one that clown world utopia drones wouldn’t have heard about.
  • 5 4
 @Matt115lamb: How democratic of you. You know who also banned dissenting voices that challenged the groupthink narrative? The Nazi party in 1938.
  • 3 1
 @jaame:
Definitely agree regards paying tax and access to the NHS. You support it, you can use it.

In theory it is means tested, the more you earn, the more tax you pay. (Though unfortunately a lot of rich people pay money to avoid the tax they should pay.) If it became fully means tested I think the issue might be that those that had to pay more would remove themselves from the system by going private.

Interesting ethical question re:unhealthy lifestyle and the NHS. I ride bikes and snowboard knowing that they will scrape me up and fix me for free. A bit different from smoking or the like but still a choice.

Happy bikes.
  • 4 0
 @jclnv: immigration into Britain from Outside the EU has nothing much to do with the EU. The UK has been free to set its own limits on that kind of immigration. If anything, immigration from outside the EU will increase if there is no agreement to hold uk bound folk in EU countries
  • 7 0
 @Matt115lamb: yeah that's the mature and adult way to deal with an opposing opinion. BAN HIM! To hell with free speech when you don't like what's being said, right??
  • 6 0
 @coticrocketrider: You could be right re: people removing themselves from the system. I've got a close friend who is a surgeon. She makes close to £100k. She works in two hospitals doing the same job on different days of the week. One is private, one is NHS. As I understand it, she gets paid a little more at the private clinic. A little bit more, not much, because the cost of the operation is set regardless of if you go through the NHS or private. The same doctors are going to be doing the work in most cases, and people who pay are paying to queue jump. It's not a case of the good doctors work private and the shitty ones work for the NHS. Obviously they are not all the same quality but they are all qualified to the same standard. So if it was means tested, the rich people would still pay for their operations like they do anyway. It's just an idea.

As you say, we choose a high risk lifestyle. That's why I like the student loan idea. They give you the care you need at the point of need. Then they send you a bill. If you can't pay the bill now, you pay it later. They take money off your payslip every month. If you can't afford it, you don't pay it. If you can afford it, you pay it.

Tax avoidance and tax evasion are another thing that needs looking at very carefully.

It is my opinion that there should be some kind of limit on how much of a company's profits can be paid out in dividends. Certainly if a company makes a lot of profit, more of that should be given to the employees who did the work as bonuses. I am strongly opposed to the idea of investors getting rich off the backs of other people's hard work. I know they put the money up, but they did not do the work. It could be 50:50 profit split between shareholders and employees.

What else? Ah yes, the BBC. The BBC can suck a bag of dicks. The TV licence is too expensive, the BBC pays presenters too much and the organisation as a whole has an appalling political slant. It no longer offers factual coverage and as such should not be funded by the taxpayer.
  • 5 0
 @garrisond5: Unfortunately that kind of carry-on has become all too common. One can disagree with the opinion without disliking the person or wishing to see them silenced.
  • 3 5
 @LAT2: That’s true if you assume all Europe bound immigration doesn’t want to end up in the UK.

I think the migrant camps in Calais is a clear indicator of where they want to end up. Who can blame them when you have the type of pathetic, gutless, drones like the ones in these comments who would probably celebrate the rape of thousands of young girls by Muslim gangs as just a “cultural differences” rather than saying anything critical for fear of sounding racist.
  • 5 0
 @jaame: I'm a doctor working in the NHS. You're pretty on the money re: how the system works. Private is basically queue jumping but the same doctors doing the work in both the NHS and private. Also you get a nicer room and better food.

BBC definitely pays people too much and is getting political.
  • 4 1
 @jclnv: I'm not sure you can make comparisons to the Nazi party whilst simultaneously scapegoating an entire religion within the same thread. The mental leaps you must have to make in order to overcome the cognitive dissonance must be exhausting.
  • 3 1
 @jclnv: the lying angry shitbag rights like you fracture social cohesion.

If we took all the rights and gave them their own country with no military to attack other countries..

You'd eat each other alive in a matter of years.
Always talking about some minority costing you money while you allow big corps and politicians to steal billions.
  • 1 0
 @mat8246: exactly. They will always find someone to blame.
Only ones to blame are the right wing media the politicians they put in office and themselves.
  • 2 0
 @Matt115lamb: exactly.

The big corps get off free and the blame gets put on minority.

Every single time its basic right wing economics.

My analogy is like someone taking a penny from the tray at the store being blamed while dudes take wheelbarrows full of cash out the back door.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: only problem is the politicians you vote for are in the pockets of big corporation.

Get the f*cking money out of politics and the people will prevail.

Until this is done neither side will be happy.
  • 2 1
 @jclnv: stop propelling this bullshit with women being raped by muslims if you don’t even live here... you mentioned nazis, yeah you kind of sound like someone telling me Jews make a cake out of baby bloody. I fully agree with you that it’s a different culture that is not on par with our Western standards, their customs are inferior to ours in terms of aspiring to treat everyone equally. But you play with dangerous cards mate, you are discrediting any valuable argument you may have.

Once again: people in Europe who are not racist idiots are not affraid about their wives daughters and sisters getting gang banged on the streets now and aren’t scared of that happening in the future. In fact I personally am afraid of skin heads and their dads Promoting this bullshit because I knew some and know how many they are. They are also here in Sweden. Taking all privileges of being openly accepted by a foreign society, yet walking around with T-shirts with Polish flags and patriotic slogans, talking full on racist crap when standing at the buss stop about muslim girls. I actually heard one a*shole say he would f* the Allah out of them, so please check your sources.
  • 3 2
 @jclnv: yes and they also blamed minority for their economic problems.

And they blindly followed a crazy man.

And used a system of propaganda that lied until the truth was a lie and lies the truth.

The right wing are the enemy of the people.
Along with unregulated big money.
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5: not when its lies.
  • 2 1
 @mat8246: I look forward to your comments on the positive values of Islam. Good luck.

@reverend27: No lies there darling, I can sight numerous studies that prove mass immigration fractures social cohesion and dissolves community sentiment.

I agree with your comments regarding military intervention and especially corporate corruption. Although I’m not sure that would have prevented Sunni and Shia conflicts within the war doctrine that masquerades as a religion but we can hope for the best I guess?
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: all religions are shit. We point out the spanish Inquisition in mexico.

Dont make me even start to point out all the crimes Christian's have perportrate against native societies.
  • 3 1
 @jclnv: cause reasons.

Yes i know the lying shitbags you listen to will always finds reasons and statistics to support their twisted views.
And you will buy it because you are angry inside. Thats why you are hooked.
You've been angry your entire life and right wing politics have given you an avenue to vent.

Now lets talk about ebikes....
  • 4 0
 The idea that negative aspects of the behaviour exhibited by people of a certain religion, nationality, continentality, skin colour, eye shape, traditional dress, or anything else, can be accepted or excused today on the grounds that some of the people of a different group did something similar in the past is not a valid one in my opinion.

People doing shit now should be called out for doing shit now. There should be no “but many years ago someone who lived in the same area of Earth as you live in now did that, so you have no right to comment.”

Some Christians killed some people hundreds of years ago, so don’t go complaining when some Satanists start killing people today.

It’s almost like “You had your turn, now let them have their turn.” With the distinction that I never had my turn. It was someone else who happened to live near where I live now, several generations before I was conceived. (!)
  • 2 1
 @reverend27: The difference is many Islamic nations still behave like medieval era religions. Death to apostates, 72 virgins in paradise for martyrdom, death to the unbelievers, covering of women to control the sexual urges of men etc.

All qualities that make Muslims highly compatible with post enlightenment western democracies. Even if these aren’t acted upon, it’s the word of God and can’t be denied. How do you think that effects their psychology? Add in the mental defects from commonplace first cousin marriages and you have a real cultural asset.
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: I don't want to say religion is bad, but certainly it can cause a lot of problems for discreet nations when a belief system supersedes the law of that country in the minds of its followers.
  • 1 0
 @vhdh666: ever went to a hospital in the UK?
  • 1 2
 @jaame: at this point of human development Christianity is quite useless and Islam is quite harmful. Islam is basically Westboro Baptist Church on steroids. Situation has been different in medieval times when it was hard to Find other way to motivate people to get Into the field with pitchforks to stand against cavalry. But today, it makes little sense, especially when we are very slowly (unfortunately) rediscovering psychedelics which offer much better window into spirituality. Of anything we need less tribalism and Western religions and much worse Islam are supporting tribalism More than anything else. Off course human can fk up every concept and @jclnv is a tribalistic atheist
  • 2 0
 @jaame: I don’t want to say any religions are good, although Buddhist are usually fairly logical. The difference between Islam and Christianity is the latter was railroaded by religion and in the west at least you’re viewed as slightly unhinged if you buy into it. Islam is either enmeshed in the laws of most Islamic countries or it is the law. How could mass immigration of people with that belief system be good in anyway for western democracies?
  • 1 1
 @jclnv: Catholics pick up pitchforks and lanterns rather quickly. These are not big knives and cutting heads off on the beach or in a cosy little bunker but still... as an anti-religionist you should not cut Jesus boys too much slack. I recently heard two colleagues discuss design of a church and as a functioning psychopath I could barely help myself and ask: ok, ok the symmetry of the form, out in on the stairs, ascension, cut the crap, where’s the rape room?!
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: The worst thing about Buddhism in the east as personally observed by me is the cognititve dissonance it goes hand in hand with.
As far as religions go it is one of the better ones. Buddha was not a diety and did not want to be sen as one. The religion does not have a diety. It does not encouage or condone violence. It does not teach that an insult to the Buddha is an insult to the religion or its followers.
That said, I personally don't rate it.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: it’s hard to rally people with teachings of Buddha to anything else than smoking more weed or DMT...
  • 16 6
 Fuck all
  • 13 20
flag makkelijk (Jan 31, 2020 at 11:13) (Below Threshold)
 Go off the internet! You're British, you don't want to be part of the world!
  • 11 4
 @makkelijk: not all of us
  • 1 2
 why?
  • 11 2
 @makkelijk: sorry, one can question the wisdom in leaving the EU, but this is just nonsense. So to be part of the world, one has to be a member of the EU? I know some europhiles feel that way, and considering the expansion urges of the EU they probably feel the same, but the world is bigger than the EU and one can even be part of Europe without being a formal member of the EU.
Mind you, I don't think this was a wise decision made by the UK, but your comment just makes no sense. People on both sides of the isle seem to exaggerate both the effects of staying in the EU and leaving it, saying it will cause doom and destruction. Truth is, the EU wasn't all good and wasn't all bad. The UK will lose some benefits, but gain some opportunities.
  • 13 3
 @makkelijk: I 100% guarantee the UK will be there when the sun rises tomorrow. Leaving the EU doesn't mean 'leaving the world'. It means the UK deciding it's own fate, it's own trade rules, etc. while not having someone in another country, dictate internal affairs (good or bad). @Mac1987 actually voicing some logic and perspective. Thanks
  • 5 1
 @bman33: ATM the UK is not entirely deciding it's own fate. For the next 11 months (and maybe even 2 years) the EU will decide alot for them.
  • 2 1
 @makkelijk: 48% of them wants to
  • 11 5
 @bman33: I am not sure how leaving our seat at the table improves the UK's ability to decide it's own rules. Any trade deals will have to balance UK needs against the wants of the US, EU, China, Japan and everyone else. They aren't going to be giving us anything for free, more importantly we'll be the smaller economy in all of those negotiations, which puts us at a disadvantage from the get go. All the 'UK deciding it's own rules' people seem to forget that within the EU we were the second biggest economy and held a veto and an opt-out on top of that. We wrote or co-wrote a whole bunch of the EU's trade laws and now we're about to be sat on the sidelines while they are re-written without our input.
  • 4 2
 @Fix-the-Spade: Most countries write trade deals with other countries. Yes, it's a game of compromises as you mention, but that is the very definition of 'deal. Whether UK writes one with Brazil, the US, Mexico, Korea, etc. is doesn't matter. All parties must agree to sign said deal. What prevents the UK from taken the approach of using the components of deals they liked in new negotiations and leveraging those into their own deals? If the UK wants to keep certain trade deal standards set by the EU, great. Scrape the ones that were harmful and move forward. I fully understand there is much more to it that simplified analogies. However, The hive mindset of the EU seems counter productive in many cases.
  • 11 1
 @bman33: the uk can decide its own internal affairs and laws. What it will loose is it’s trade agreement with its all biggest trading partners. It will also lose the ability to export components for use in its biggest trading partners’ products unless it agrees to EU regulations and pays the EU money. The vast majority of UK manufacturing exports are of such components. The strangest thing about it all is that the areas of the UK that will be hit hardest by leaving the EU are the ones that voted to leave. A lot of them based their decision on lies and propaganda.
  • 4 4
 @LAT2: It only loses those deals as they are currently written with EU oversight. Zero reason why most trading partners, including the US, Canada, would say no to new UK exclusive ones..especially if there is already an established pattern of trade which there is. Once 'out' of the EU , the EU cannot dictate where the UK exports outside of the EU. If there is some widget that say UK and Germany both have components for, it is in both of their best interest to renegotiate. It's no secret many leaders in the EU are upset and will emotionally block a few deals in the beginning. Once the 'sting' wears off and life moves one, they will be foolish to ignore a fellow Western country if trade benefits both parties. In addition, it's possible the UK can set up trade deals now that may have been denied and/or hampered by the EU previously. For there will be good and bad. One door closes, other open. The situation isn't just a binary or black/white. It will be several years before we see the direction this goes. "lies and propganda" are the tool of ALL politicians regardless of left/right, liberal/conservative. Thinking one 'side' or the other has moral authority over the other is naive
  • 6 1
 @bman33: You mean, planes aren't going to fall out of the sky at 23:00 tonight?
  • 2 0
 @jaame: Well, maybe a few....Big Grin
  • 3 1
 @jaame: Depends, are you flying Air Malaysia?
  • 4 5
 @LAT2: Bullshit. Those places have been ravaged by mass immigration. You think they’re lying about the effects of that?
  • 4 2
 @bman33: if you look at the trade deals Europe already has or is working on it's a very impressive network and most countries would love to have that trading ability: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

The UK had what some people would refer to as "the deal of the century", we helped create it, were part of it but among other things had veto rights, hence not joining the euro out converting fully to metric etc. The deal we had was hated by most countries in Europe because of the power it gave us.

Compare that to the trade deals the USA has or is working in and it's significantly different:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free-trade_agreements
(The highlighted map doesn't show as much detail as the European one). The cancellation of TTP shows where America's thought process is currently.

There will be some advantages to splitting up with Europe, the problem is nobody has any idea what they will be out what the chances of the coming of are, or when they'll happen. It's a huge gamble.

The gamble seems to centre around getting a free trade deal with America, with around half the population of the EU. With Trump being the business man he is, he knows how much we need this deal. Will be turn the screws on the UK to get a great deal for America? Why wouldn't he? How can the UK say no? What are the UK government willing to give up? The NHS? Already happening. Food standards? Environmental standards? Education? Incarceration/police?....... The list goes on.

It's a huge gamble by the government and the rich and powerful they are supported by. Voted for by the public without accurate information.

Would you let a randoms of the street with no qualifications or real knowledge vote on how to fix a possible heart condition your child's might have? knowing that the surgery voted for will take place no matter what, even if it's dangerous?

That's Brexit, it might be fine.......
  • 4 0
 Wow sounds like all the tearful blubbers from the Single Track World forums (same ten w#ankers) have signed up to have a redface rant about how terrible democracy is & how everyone who isnt from their tiny minority bubble is a racist. And thick, and a racist. Tiresome.
  • 4 1
 Interesting that the article and the posts make no mention of the freedom to work in Europe (if suitably qualified) Lots of bike guiding companies are going to find things more difficult. I’m a Mountain Guide and it’s not clear how the final departure is going to effect me. It’s already pretty complicated getting qualifications recognised and getting work approval. It’s only going to get worse. Worst case - I lose half my income. Thanks Brexiteers.....
  • 5 0
 BRITS, PLEASE DON'T RAISE YOUR PRICES! I'm about to buy a bike from a UK manufacturer. Thanks from America. Smile
  • 2 0
 Cotic or Hope? Or perhaps something more boutique?
  • 1 3
 @samfr1000: The Hope is sick, but I'm not down with proprietary parts. I'm planning on a Nukeproof Mega 275.
  • 6 0
 @mybaben: made in Taiwan
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: ?? Not sure what you're referring to.
  • 1 0
 @mybaben: when you say UK manufacturer. most of em like most bike companies are made in Taiwan
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: I get you. True, most bikes period are made in Asia. With that in mind, I'm just referring to corporate headquarters etc. Nuke is in UK (northern Ireland, as you know.)
  • 1 0
 @mybaben: yeah, truth is. brexshit is gonna take a while. Maybe years... an a crash in the pound would make them cheaper for you? But, then brexshit is supposedly about opening our own trade with the US but then there's amurica first sanctions
So who fkng knows, the 'experts' certainly don't :'D
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: Yeah, it's def a challenging and interesting situation. There is a chance it may even lower prices for us here in the US, but I hate living in the country that is the big bully at school and always gets its way. I hope this doesn't turn out to really beat England down.
  • 5 0
 We should be talking about how the Coronavirus will affect the bike industry.
  • 11 0
 with all those lungs affected, the e-bike sales will probably increase tremendously
  • 2 3
 I am tired of these celebrity viruses. My colleagues sister died of septic shock after ignoring symptoms of “common” flu for two weeks.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: That took my father 2 years ago , it’s now the worlds biggest killer !
  • 2 0
 I have some experience with this.. When I was younger I did my own lip piercing and it wasn't clean. I went to bed with a headache as I sometimes get headaches.. But normally sleep fixes headaches for me. Paracetamol wasnt helping at all and I had a temperature /chills for 2 or 3 days. I suddennly put the piercing and the illness together and went to hospital because I was headed towards blood poisoning and gradual organ shut down. It just felt like a unrelenting flu though, so if you have similar symptoms it's worth trying to pin it on something like infection
  • 4 2
 One word... N O T H I N G ! ! A company can do wtf they want! They dont need a group of globalist commies to tell them who and who not to trade and deal with! That is what capitalism is all about! Free market amongst private companies to anyone they damn well please without the restriction and oversight of the state or government!
  • 3 2
 Calm down Donald.
  • 1 0
 "Dominic Langan, the CEO of Madison, the UK's biggest distributor, told us, "Until we know the terms of any deal it is hard to know how to fully prepare." Although he did say that they were working towards creating a distribution center in Ireland for shipping parts and accessories."

yeah it was called chain reaction they did shimano well er cheap
  • 2 0
 It means a bunch of obstinate self-serving politicians may have finally got the point that we want out. Maybe... What does it mean for the UK bike industry? No obvious immediate losses...
  • 1 0
 It might actually be good ...we might actually have to start making things again. The fact no one will have any money to buy anything means we will have to e paid in potatoes One problem I have found is supply of a particular grade of aluminium...we make bikes out of ....prices had already gone up and Europe is the only place at the moment I can buy reasonable quantities rather than a container full of from Taiwan up front Just in time got a whole lot harder
  • 4 0
 Cockney Rejects and Angelic Upstarts will be less expensive.
  • 25 25
 So much anger.
So little idea of what's actually going to happen.
Everyone assumes it's going to be a disaster.

This is what was voted for whether you like it or not.

Personally I’m real excited to see what happens. As someone that comes from a family
that doesn’t rely on the NHS to cover my lifestyle of booze; smoking and drugs I’m content that i’ll be alright Jack
tup
  • 7 3
 Well there ya are. As long as you're alright mate. Congrats.
  • 10 5
 @stoo61: Yeah man, life is good.
  • 1 1
 @timbud: None too shabby. Weather is sh*te though. Frown
  • 5 3
 Stop being so positive. We’re all going to die.
  • 2 2
 You're correct that we dont really know what's going to happen and there is a lot of anger. I'm personally just a bit sad and disappointed. As you say life moves on and it was what 17 million of 60 million voted for, so it'll happen. I'm interested to see how it goes.

I'm guessing that you are a bike rider given you're on pink bike. While the NHS may not be supporting a vice filled life of drugs and smoking. It is providing free ambulances, A+E care, Emergency trauma surgery, ICU and rehabilitation to mountain bikers that needed it. So it might not have supported you yet but it will if you need it. Also saves you a fair wack if you decide to have a child.
  • 4 0
 *free at the point of service. Obviously has to be paid for through tax payers money
  • 3 0
 @stoo61: The weather down here in England is gorgeous today. Big Grin
  • 1 2
 @timbud: Yeah but in England. Kinda defeats the point of gorgeous weather.
  • 3 3
 Jeepers you POMS are a bunch of Loonies (collectively). The ones of met personally are awesome.

Heres how I see it.....

You didntt like criminals, so you s3nt them to wasteland down under.

Now you dont like yourselves, so you remove yourself from the EU.

Am I missing anything?

.
  • 5 1
 Quite alot. Yes
  • 1 0
 You have No Idea ... LOL.. Britain Leaving the EU is the best thing they've ever done! After all, Britain Never did have the Euro...
  • 1 0
 There's no problem actually.

UK will remain in the single market :
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P081iUMJfUU

Under no circumstances will the British government adjust that position.
  • 1 0
 I live in Greece and i have a pending order on Wiggle. Wtf happens now? To buy or not to buy? Customs suck over here big time.
  • 3 1
 You have nearly a year before any changes to customs kick in (whatever they might be), so don’t worry.
  • 6 6
 But do worry if your order is on a plane at 23:00 tonight because that plane is going to fall out of the sky, and crash on a hospital which is next to a school and a medicine factory.
  • 3 1
 What does brexit means to bike industry? We have no f*cking idea but please click the article do we can earn money...
  • 3 0
 If all goes to shit I’ll ride an orange if I have too!!!
  • 2 0
 come to CANADA we love your BIKES...build here and ride here!.....Bring your families...we got great trails!
  • 1 0
 can you just settle for a couple of Royal moochers for now?
  • 3 2
 Just imagine if instead of Brexit they put all the time, energy and money into the health service and education. (and bike parks)
  • 1 0
 I hope the gin industry holds up! Making a triple g&t now but can’t decide if I want Tanqueray or Beefeater. 50/50 on that. Maybe have a referendum?
  • 1 0
 11 months now remaining to shop all the cool 'hope', 'cant quit cartel' and 'hurley burley' stuff before the borders are closed
  • 1 0
 Be worried about Coronavirus, at this rate there will be no cheap raw materials from China! The industry will be coming to a half....wait for it!
  • 3 0
 Cool
  • 6 4
 It Be ok No need to panic
  • 2 1
 Status quo is the way to go! 'Til it's not... thanks BBC, err Pinkbike!
  • 4 2
 EU Breathes Sigh of Relief as the Drunk Uncle Finally Decides to Leave.
  • 1 0
 They’ll miss ‘uncles’ money though.
  • 1 0
 Just add it to the list of troubling signs in the world. We haven’t added WWIII yet, have we?
  • 3 2
 Who gives a shit, we all pay far too much for what they continually tell us we need so it's business as usual.
  • 1 0
 Thats def an Orange swingarm.. I wonder why they usually have clumpy/cold tig welds
  • 2 0
 So Morzine will be a Ghost town next Summer
  • 3 1
 Good decision to be out of the EU dictatorship.
  • 1 0
 Its ok we have a trade deal with CENTRAL AMERICA this means copious amounts of coke...carry on notthing to worry about here
  • 2 0
 will SIck make a comeback?
  • 1 0
 Does this mean I can buy a HB 130 and an orange dh bike without ending my financial stability?
  • 7 6
 it would be nice to see scotland leave uk for fuckin them over with brexit
  • 2 1
 Nothing as we are still tied in to the EU but have no say in the matter.
  • 2 1
 Here in Canada, Québec wants an exit too!
  • 2 1
 aaaa yesss everyone is an economist now nice
  • 2 0
 Bangers and mash
  • 2 2
 Well, if it all crashes down, maybe they can take time off to fix their bloody teeth.
  • 1 1
 Ireland is waiting with smile. Come on dear UK manufacturer HQ or distribution center, you're all welcome!
  • 1 0
 hope moves to ireland, and sends every purchase with pipes and a sheep
  • 1 0
 Well that escalated quickly
  • 1 0
 I think the Coronavirus will be more impactful
  • 1 0
 Wish bike media would avoid politics
  • 1 0
 I just bought a pair of Tubilitos
  • 21 22
 ITS A ROYAL FUCKING SHAME TRUMPS DISABLED BROTHER IS IN CHARGE BUT THANK FUCK ITS NEARLY OVER.
  • 11 9
 LMAO!! No shit, what a nightmare. Boris is a troll. Over here I'm honestly scared dumb ass is going to reelected next year. The impeachment thing is a farce...
  • 6 7
 @mybaben: look at Italy, they elected and re-elceted the same president (Berlusconi) although everybody knows he's worth shit. Hope it's not going to happen in USA
  • 4 4
 So it's cool to use disabled instead of retarded now? Because people with disabilities are so undesirable, huh.
  • 2 1
 @vhdh666: Thanks mate. We'll just see.... Yeah the Italy thing with Berlusconi was crazy!
  • 2 1
 @mybaben: just googled it: he got re-elected 3 times!!!!!!!!!!
  • 3 0
 @vhdh666: LMAO!!! What the hell is going on in Italy?! They better check their water supply! Ha.
  • 4 1
 @mybaben: All the men were living vicariously through his bunga bunga parties
  • 1 1
 @jaame: LMAO! Wink
  • 4 5
 @mybaben: He 100% will. The democrats are a bunch of morons. Yang the possible exception.
  • 1 0
 @mybaben: Are you also worried about your own state?? Might want to go walk around Salem the Capital. Let me guess that’s Trumps fault also...
  • 1 0
 @krumpdancer101: I'm worried about the country.
  • 1 0
 @mybaben: hey to each their own. I thought Salem was part of the country???
  • 3 3
 Cheers England.... Yours Scotland!
  • 1 0
 Just futtin orrible...
  • 1 0
 I'm happy Smile
  • 1 2
 oh no, think of all the Oranges.
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