Caminade Shows Off Prototype Titanium Enduro Bike

Jun 11, 2019
by BUISAN Geoffrey  



PRESS RELEASE: Caminade Bikes

My name is Geoffery Buisan. It all started last December when I made the decision to join the Caminade. Until the end of my studies in February, I communicated almost daily with Brice to discuss vision and strategy. Mountain biking is deeply ingrained in Caminade's identity. Don’t forget that the One4All and SimpleTrack were the first bikes in our lineup. As time moved on, our customers requested a gravel bike. Naturally, we put our energy in this direction, with the design and development of a titanium welded gravel bike with fork and stem manufactured in our workshop, and the innovative carbon joints that led to the manufacture of the AllRoad and LongRoad, thus bringing to market a titanium bike at an affordable price.

In the end though, I'm a flat pedal mountain biker at heart so one beautiful January morning when Brice suggested that I design a titanium full suspension MTB, I was excited for what was to come.


Our in house production in the south of France next to Perpignan in Ile-sur-Têt

ChillEasy identity

The ChillEasy is destined to ride hard. It's capable in endurance riding all the way up as well as tackling tough terrain on the way down.

We determined the bike must be fit to ride over a variety of terrain so we had several tests it must pass to ensure this could happen:

First, the Garoutade itinerary that we have at the start of the workshop. It has 60 km of riding with 2500 m of elevation. Then the bike bust allow me to go down the 1500 m of descent on the famous yellow train DH, and finally, to cruise laps on the most exposed trails of Bike Park Les Angles.

The name of the bike came to us during a brewery day at La Ferme Ta Gueule. Like a SpeakEasy, the philosophical beers of this microbrewery relax customers into a fun easy going evening. We want out bike to be a machine to give you effortless pleasure and that’s why we call it ChillEasy! Chill to signify having a good time, and Easy for the ease at which this bike will ensure you have a good time! To reinforce the Chill side of the bike, we welded a bottle opener next to the bottom bracket.


Details matter: CH3, Can Ma Mere and Mental Margarita are the names of the trails we built next to the workshop.


Titanium Frame

I started mountain biking at the age of 15 and I'm 25 today. Before arriving at Caminade, I had only known the aluminum and carbon frames made in Asia. I did not understand the nobility of titanium. After getting on a titanium gravel bike several times, I quickly understood the effectiveness of the material. After inspecting Sylvain's titanium Gravel, which has had two years of intense use, I quickly understood the durability of this material. That's why titanium was a natural choice for the ChillEasy.

Besides the difficulty of welding, titanium's elasticity can also be problematic. Stiffening the bottom bracket enough to resist the big efforts for which this bike is intended was one issue. We solved this with the 30mm housing axis which serves as the main pivot on which rotates on two sets of crankcase bearings - one for the front triangle and one for the rear triangle, and the new standard, Super Boost Plus which further separates the bearings again a little further the bearings (the DH bottom bracket is 104.5 mm wide).

So, with no chain effect, we will be able to focus on the tuning possibilities offered by the Olhins 4 way hydraulic shock - compression low speeds a little closed for support, high speeds quite open... and a lockout for long climbs!

The sensitivity and vibration absorption offered by titanium allowed us to reduce the SAG and with a lower overall amount of travel, we are in the same numbers ​​as a bike with 160mm in the rear.

Our titanium frame is fully shaped and welded in our in-house production


The damper is moved to the side, as on direct-draw motorcycles.

Unlike many designers who draw a bike starting with the general shape, we started by positioning the damper to promote a truly progressive ratio curve without any inflection of the curve, and especially not at the end of the travel.

The problem with this is that the damper must be closer to the wheel and very low in the middle of the seat tube. We could have used rockers to give a proper shape to the ratio but it would have been heavier and with a higher shock not favoring a low center of gravity. Therefore, we chose to slightly shift the damper and bend the top of the frame to get around this, which also gives the frame sensual forms.




What's next?

Now it's time to get out with the bike and ride it hard! We will be back with more news to tell you what happens during this long phase of testing.

Learn more at caminade.eu


158 Comments

  • + 145
 I bet cornering on that and catching some calf meat in the spring feels nice.
  • + 12
 I better start shaving my legs in case I ever get a chance to ride this beast!
  • + 12
 I had an exposed spring pogo stick when I was a kid. I used to try all sorts of tricks on it and occasionally the spring would grab/pinch my knee. Holy sh*t it hurt! The shock placement on this bike brings back those memories. Ouch!
  • + 21
 It's okay, I think they could rectify this problem by putting some kind of corrugated plastic sleeve over the suspension. Aaaaaand we're back to 1993
  • + 9
 I once crashed off the back of my Scott High Octane an got my knib pinched in the coil........... true story
  • + 28
 @nojzilla: that's a pretty small gap to fit in......
  • + 20
 This one time, at band camp.......
  • + 7
 @priest55: that's what she said
  • + 3
 @nojzilla: bazinga
  • + 2
 Hahah, there is a reason we do things the way we do!
  • + 7
 @bman33: it’s funny to think all of us here are basically just big kids and the only difference as years go by is our ‘toys’ get more expensive. Pogo stick at 7, 20 years later a full-sus MTB, but the fun is more-or-less the same! Enjoy!
  • + 17
 @aps62: Except for rollerblades, we all did that once and never again.
  • + 5
 Apparently everyone at caminade bikes rides right foot foward
  • + 5
 Imagine this with cannondales new philosophy on separating compression and dampening..... a shock on each side!
  • + 2
 @unrooted: New easiest way to shave your left leg! Might hurt a little!
  • + 2
 @nojzilla: Or they could have gone old school and used a pull shock instead of a lower pivot.
  • + 2
 @priest55: This made my day
  • + 3
 @nojzilla: damping*
  • + 3
 @aps62: Exactly! In my mind, I am still 7, or 15 at times. Cheers and rubber side down!
  • + 2
 @usedbikestuff:

Does no-one rollerblade anymore?

I still go! Friday night skate in London and Sunday roller stroll....good times....
  • + 10
 @priest55: I thought that everyone stopped rollerblading when Grindr was introduced. . .it's the one "social media" that has really helped people.
  • + 3
 @unrooted: I legitimately laughed out loud at work when i read this.
  • - 1
 @unrooted: You know whats the hardest part about roller blading? Telling your dad you're gay.
  • + 2
 @ecly13: Well I told yours and he was fine with it.....

'Dispatch shots fired'

(I feel like I have to caveat these comments with a ''we're only joking here people, we're not jew hating homophobic Nazis). Jesus Christ...
  • + 1
 @nojzilla: cannondale already did the side by side shock! It's on my '17 trigger. There's an 80mm shock for climbing and xc type stuff, and then a 140mm for bigger hits. Both shocks can be tuned and set up individually, and there's a bar mounted lever that allows you to switch between the two whilst riding. Swapping between the shocks also changes the geometry slightly.
  • + 52
 Looks great but mounting the shock in single shear on a ti full sus? Doesn't seem like a great idea.



WAIT

Almost forgot

AS AN ENGINEER, this does not seem like a great idea.
  • + 4
 Agreed. I'd be nervous that if I bottomed this thing out a few times one of those shock mounts would bend or break off.
  • + 2
 Nailed it
  • + 1
 For a good time, look up the Pinarello Dogma XM 9.9 . Single sided shock mounts and a lower shock mount that is bolted around the BB with 8 bolts.
  • + 2
 Breaking double sheered shock bolts is already semi common, and bending them is a really common, can't even imagine a single-sheer set-up. The offset/outboard shock just seems like a terrible idea top to bottom, all compromise, no benefit.
  • + 1
 I can't get over the fact that the shock clearly could be mounted below where the seat tube ends. They clearly could make a pass through in the frame for the shock without compromising the seat insertion.
  • + 30
 "No chain effect"? One could laugh but it's mostly sad that they are building a bike without knowing how pivot positioning affects the way the bike pedals. Concentric BB pivot designs have long proven to not work. Like, decades ago. Yeah maybe if you take it very relaxed as they are implying, but you have to be really super relaxed, basically a zen master to deal with the frustration of riding a bike in which the shock eats so much of every pedal stroke. Only the shock lockout function saves this bike, but there better be a remote switch on the handlebar for every time you want to pedal.
  • + 11
 Yeah, at first I thought "they're bringing back the URT, and they don't realize that URTs tend to suck", once I realized that they weren't fool enough for that, the realization washed over me that instead they're instead bringing back the concentric pivot, which is little better. Rotec abandonded it, Pole abandoned it, others too...not sure what Lenz is doing these days...

About the only place concentric makes sense is single speed slopestyle.
  • + 0
 Sure they pedal terribly, but when you are going downhill the feeling of riding one is unreal. My current bike has a concentric bb pivot and it is the best bike I have ever ridden and I fully expect it will be the best bike I will ever ride for as long as I ride.
  • + 7
 Caminade makes beautiful bikes, but they have no understanding of kinematics - or, at the very least, they have a completely different take on it than every other company. Their One4All, for example, has a dramatically falling leverage ratio and the anti-squat is deeply negative at full droop (topped out), increasing throughout the travel. Both are backwards from every other bike on the market.

I suppose this prototype is a step in the right direction, but it's only brought their kinematics up to the level of the less successful bikes from the '90s.
  • - 6
flag TheSlayer99 (Jun 11, 2019 at 22:01) (Below Threshold)
 @R-M-R: they could make their current kinematics work. A progressive suspension design works great with coils, and if the seat tube is steepened a fair bit, negative anti squat could possibly provide excellent climbing characteristics.
  • + 10
 @TheSlayer99: "... negative anti squat could possibly provide excellent climbing characteristics."

No, that will never produce anything other than extreme pedaling squat.

The acceleration of applying power produces squat. With negative anti-squat (i.e. positive chain squat), the chain tension adds to, not counteracts, the squat from acceleration.

Seat tube angle, progressive leverage rates, etc. do not change this. It is impossible for the spring force to increase rapidly enough to not allow significant squat; if this was somehow possible, the same brick wall of spring force would apply to hitting a bump, which is as bad as it sounds for bump compliance.
  • - 8
flag TheSlayer99 (Jun 12, 2019 at 2:45) (Below Threshold)
 @R-M-R: I understand that the suspension would squat more than on a normal bike under power, but if you think about it, the bike would have similar pedaling characteristics to bikes with super high anti squat numbers (200% or more), except the suspension would begin compressed rather than extended when going over bumps, hence the need for steeper than extreme seat tube angles. When half cranking when climbing technical sections, the extension of the suspension could propel the bike forward through the section. It’s an interesting concept to think about and you can’t gauge how it would feel simply based on numbers and reviews of other bikes, because this is new territory for bike design.
  • - 2
 @R-M-R: refering to the One4All i believe there is actually a lot of merit in having low or negative anti squat when the suspension is extended above the sag point. This will mean pedaling forces will assist in bringing the suspension back to the sag point if it extends up over bumps.
Nearly all other systems have falling anti squat rates simply because this is how they work, not because they set out to make that happen. Designers then target a certain level of anti squat at the sag point and then the system generates increased anti squat above the sag point by default. Its almost like baggage that unavoidably comes with most systems. The industry is so used to it, we don’t know any better.
  • + 4
 @Bhaack: This is incorrect.

If I, or any other kinematics designer, wanted anti-squat to increase, we could easily accomplish that. Caminade did it on the One4All - by accident, I suspect - demonstrating it's possible. The reason it's not done is because we don't want to do it.

Bringing the suspension back to the sag point with chain tension is not desirable; gravity will do this for you. Generation 1 Santa Cruz VPP kinematics did this and were rightly abandoned.

You will find these links helpful:

www.youtube.com/user/andrextr

www.i-tracksuspension.com/suspensiontheory.html
  • - 1
 @R-M-R:
Firstly, the i-track guys agree with me on a heap of issues. E.g. they state “Most bikes on the market have Anti-Squat that decreases throughout travel. ” if you find that statement, (in the “anti-squat curve section”) keep reading that paragraph and they go on to advocate for a design that has increasing anti squat below the sag point as otherwise it is an unstable system that needs heavy damping to keep it under control!

As for before the sag point. There's is a lot of subtlety in what i am saying that probably can be better explained. Specifically, its not about pulling the suspension back down from above the sag point using the chain force but more about not driving it up above the sag point due to chain force. Again the I-track webpage acknowledges this extensively. But what they are missing in the theory is the fact that bikes are pedalled over bumps and up hills. Their theory is all explained in the context of flat smooth ground.
There are a number of key scenarios where substantial anti squat above the sag point is not so helpful. The most obvious example is pedaling up a hill over a root. When the rear wheel hits the root, speed is reduced, all of a sudden the high anti squat reaction is not balanced by forward acceleration, weight shifts forward slightly, the rear suspension is unweighted slightly, chain force goes up as you pedal to lift your centre of mass up over the root, high anti squat causes the suspension to extend further and all of a sudden your suspension is extending into the bump rather than compressing to absorb it.

I have testing showing this happening. So i know it occurs.

I would also question your assumptions that doing it differently has all been done before and dropped cause it was no good. I not aware of any VPP bike that delivered a anti squat response well down below 100% when the suspension is above the sag point. But if you know of one or have a Linkage file on one, let me know.
  • + 2
 @Bhaack: Hugh McLeay states:

"Most bikes on the market have Anti-Squat that decreases throughout travel. When accelerating with these systems, if a bump is encountered (or the rider inputs a ‘pump’), then the suspension compresses to a position with less Anti-Squat, meaning there is less force assisting the suspension to return to equilibrium. This type of system is unstable.

"If the Anti-Squat increases throughout the pedalling zone, then when accelerating, if a bump is encountered (or the rider inputs a ‘pump’), then the suspension compresses to a position which has more Anti-Squat, meaning there is more force assisting the suspension to return to equilibrium. This type of system is stable."

This is one of the areas in which I disagree with Hugh. He seems to forget that spring force increases, so even if anti-squat decreases deeper in the travel, the spring force is higher, providing an increasing total restoring force.

Similarly, your scenario of hitting a root when riding uphill overestimates the role of anti-squat and neglects the role of spring force. The rider's forward weight shift does not trigger the suspension to reach an anti-squat regime that is so powerful that it now begins to lift the rider. The increase in total anti-squat force in your scenario is tiny, relative to the reduction in spring force.

Regaring old Santa Cruz designs: Look up the 2005 Blur models in the Linkage Web Library. The anti-squat curve is similar to the Caminade One4All, which Santa Cruz quickly abandoned and hasn't looked back.
  • - 1
 @R-M-R:
Sorry still don’t think the facts support your view. Appreciate the discussion though as i did learn some things.

Your right about Santa Cruz in 2003. For older models i had only really eye balled their wheel path and not looked at the actual anti squat curves.

But this is bad for the rest or your argument. SC did not abandon this back then. Based on a quick search of anti squat curves they embraced this for multiple years. See linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2013/09/sc-blur-xc-old-school.html?m=1
If this is correct it shows heavily reducing anti squat in the 2007 model. So probably in 2009 they started to flattened out the anti squat drop above sag. But the drop is still significant in that series (2011 model in the graph) and also still present on 2014 models. Arguably its only the very latest generation that has a really flat curve with little drop above sag. Hardly an abandoned strategy.

So i was wrong that this hasn’t been used at all in the past. Instead it has quietly been used for years by arguably one of the best pedaling bike brands out there! Its just that they didn’t use the anti squat language to explain their technology.

By the way have you ever ridden an All4one to know it is so bad. I haven’t ridden one. But i have ridden and tested some SC bikes and others with similar anti squat curves.

As for i-track - you pointed me to that website. Nevertheless i agree with you that his comments that the system is unstable are over exaggerated, and agree also, spring force is part of that.

But i think you also have over stated the effect of spring force as if it is always dominant. At the end of the day the bike suspension is a system, with all aspects influencing the outcome. The question is whether the influence of one aspect is obvious.

In terms of my example the f the negative effects of high anti squat above the sag point - at the end of the day I can easily trump your theory that high anti squat forces above the sag point won’t lift the suspension over a bump simply due to the reducing spring force. While I am sure this is possible in the right situation, I have test results of popular high end modern bikes doing exactly what you say won’t happen. So this effect is real and a lot of common bikes out there have system configurations and settings that produce this outcome when they are ridden in the real world. It can be significant, it can be felt by the rider and it clearly shows up in test data.
  • + 2
 @Bhaack: It seems the only thing I've said that's still in question is how quickly Santa Cruz abandoned the rising anti-squat curve. Assuming Antonio's chart is correct (other analyses in the library produced different results), the only thing in question is *when* Santa Cruz fully abandoned the design on the last holdout model.

The fact remains they *did* abandon that design - even their other models at that same time used a different design.

- Almost no companies currently use rising anti-squat.
- Almost no companies *have ever* used rising anti-squat.
- The one major company that used it on a pedaling bike (as opposed to DH) abandoned it.
- In 2012, the then-head of Santa Cruz Engineering (and now CEO), Joe Graney, published a blog post stating their original thinking on kinematics was to focus on axle path, rather than anti-squat and anti-rise, and acknowledging how wrong this was. That's where their weird kinematics came from and the man who developed it apologized for it:
www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-CA/news/344

What are we even arguing about? If you're supporting a rising anti-squat curve, I hope you're going to make a very enlightening argument in support of it; if not, the whole industry, other than Caminade, will continue to use falling A-S curves and I look forward to ceasing to discuss long-abandoned designs.
  • + 0
 @R-M-R:
Man, SC apologised for the way they explained their bikes. NOT how their bikes worked. Big difference.
If you can’t understand this no wonder we are arguing.

So to restate my original comment with a bit more measure: There is clearly significant merit in having a flat or dropping anti squat above the sag point as proven over the years by Santa Cruz and Yeti and now being used by Nailed. In other words this means have a rising anti squat curve at the start of the travel. But many in the industry still don’t realise this.

linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2016/04/yeti-sb55c-29-2016.html?m=1

All the best.
  • + 1
 @Bhaack: The chart you linked proves my point and disproves yours. This argument feels insane.

Let's not make absolute statements, like whether anti-rise does or does not rise. Let's look at *how much* it rises.

For example, the greatest rise in anti-squat showed in the chart you linked is a single-digit percentage. I have no problem with kinematics of this nature. A couple percent is not what we're talking about; we're talking about orders-of-magnitude rises in anti-squat.

The Caminade One4All starts at -80% and rises to +80% (using my standard centre of mass and sprocket combination). That's a hell of a lot more than a single digit percentage. The problem is not with a little rise, but with huge rise.

Now, let's talk about your product. You seem to be the person behind bhaack.com/what-is-vast. The chart you published shows your design rising from an anti-squat of -120% to +120%, then falling back to about 60%. There is no other curve like this - never has been, never will be (the One4All being somewhat similar). And there are good reasons for this.

When your invention contradicts a mature industry and thousands of minds, you've either reinvented the wheel or you're the one making the error. As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", so please provide your extraordinary evidence, including charts showing not simply how your design produces lower wheel displacement, but showing this with normalization of leverage curves and damper forces, because your chart could plausibly be explained by just having more low-speed damping.
  • + 18
 I remember the last company who made a titanium enduro bike... They even advertised it as Made in the UK... They received some Sick feedback in 1 year time....
  • + 3
 Ohhh burn
  • + 1
 But aren't Sick! trying to put everything right?!? (On a serious note I hope that people have got their money back now.)

The whole Sick! episode has certainly tarnished my view of small brands - this company may be completely different, but I read about them and find myself thinking about whether they are another Sick! in the making... Shame.
  • + 2
 @slimboyjim: Caminade has been around since late 2012 and do their bike themselves so probably not.
  • + 13
 Seems like bikes are in a design phase where different is cool but not nessisarly better. High pivots, ti enduro bikes, 27.5+ gravel bikes, ect... somebody needs to tell the bike industry it's ok if you arent reinventing the wheel every single year.
  • + 3
 Nailed it
  • - 1
 Atleast it doesn’t look like a session. I for one applaud these companies that are taking a risk to try new and weird things. It’s a lot more interesting from an industry development standpoint than seeing tiny changes to the same general design.
  • + 11
 looks gorgeous!
But
seat angle is way too slack
shock is way too exposed (to legs and rock/terrain when crashed)
and it will prob pedal shit with where that pivot is
and no need for titanium in a full sus unless your a bike tart.
Bike for rider who cares about aesthetics not performance.
  • + 1
 @hairy1976 First thing I noticed.... Dat slack seat angle doh!
  • + 10
 So considering the fact that this thing: likely pedals like you're in deep sand, will slowly and painfully eat your left calf as you ride, has a seat tube angle that will wear out dropper post bushings just for fun, has rear shock mounts using a weak single shear design for no reason, and incorporates all those terrible ideas into the high price of titanium... can we just say that this is a dumb bike? Thank you next.
  • + 8
 Beatiful piece of art. But my calfs are allready saying hail marys just looking at iT. Maybe the shock placement isnt as bad as iT first looks. Who knows. Hope iT Works because it sure is a looker. Good luck with this project Gents.
  • + 2
 Hey if you're left foot forward just mount the shock on the other side!
  • + 1
 @hamncheez:

That would be seriously funny if that was an option. Who knows
  • + 8
 Chain effect is only a bad thing if your name is Bob. Concentric pivot bikes never caught on for good reason.
  • + 2
 This thing will have more of a chain effect as the the pedal stroke will pull the shock into compression, and there will be high pedal kick upon rebound
  • + 7
 If it rides half as good as it looks like, I guess I'll have to sell the car and a kidney to lay my hands on this beauty. Nice job les gars!
  • + 5
 Would be curious to see some graphs. Main pivot is lower than the BB, does it have negative anti-squat?
  • + 5
 @Loche: it's a BB concentric pivot.
That round hole is simply a bit of the rear triangle below the BB.
  • + 2
 @Loche: Main pivot is concentric with the BB, but it still has a lot of negative anti-squat because of how far below it is from the chain line (line of force). In other words, it squats like hell. A lot of the pedalling force will go into compressing the shock.
  • + 3
 @Loche: Not negative, but about one-sixth of average. Their One4All model does have negative anti-squat early in the travel. Caminade kinematics are unlike anything else on the market.
  • + 0
 @R-M-R: Whenever the chain line (the line defined by the part of the chain that is under tension) is above the physical or virtual pivot point, pedalling will compress the shock, in other words squatting will occur, in yet other words anti-squat will be negative. The kinematics of most bikes have predominantly negative anti-squat to prevent chain growth, but it's not as extreme, not as noticeable, as in concentric bb pivots. All great pedalling suspension bikes offer a positive and sometimes high anti-squat.
  • + 0
 @R-M-R: What do you mean with "that"? Those links don't seem to have taught you enough. Address my comments in particular, from there you might be able to refine your knowledge.
  • + 0
 @R-M-R: Also from your other comments, you are using completely confused concepts regarding anti-squat. How to solve this?
  • + 2
 @DavidGuerra: In the history of mountain bikes, there have been only a few bikes ever made with negative anti-squat, yet you say:

"The kinematics of most bikes have predominantly negative anti-squat to prevent chain growth ..."

With this in mind, please review your understanding of anti-squat.

Perhaps you're referring to *decreasing* anti-squat, in which case I agree with you, but you need to be more careful with your terminology.
  • + 2
 @R-M-R: My lapse. I was considering 100% anti-squat as "negative" anti-squat.
  • + 1
 @DavidGuerra: I'm glad we were able to find the source of our misunderstanding. And I presume, from your nationality, that English isn't your first language; if so, I'm always impressed by people who can have a technical discussion in a second (third, fourth, etc.) language.
  • + 1
 @R-M-R: Sorry about that. Also, on my previous comment I meant "below 100%" as negative anti-squat but arrows seem to disappear from comments.
  • + 1
 @R-M-R: I mean the greater-than sign (gets mistaken for html code).
  • + 3
 Great design.... First of all the shock is totally exposed to literally everything. Physical damage, also your leg is quite close to it etc. not mentioning the single sided shock mount which i doubt to be as reliable as a standard one with two sides, of course it was tested but it still makes the pivot bolt suffer much more torque and shearing force.
  • + 3
 WHY.... WHY OH WHY..... Stick that rear suspension somewhere... And when you fix it, take pictures you are proud to show! Instead of hiding this Ugly bike on poor ass angles.
  • + 2
 I'd like to open a beer with that opener after a muddy ride or riding through cow shit. Just as good of an idea as a bottle opener on the bottom of your flip flops! So much to criticise, nobody has mentioned the lack of a water bottle mount.
  • + 1
 Would like to see a picture with a crank going around the piggy back as this really looks like itchy and painful ride, not much clearance I think. Calfs bites, ankle hits?

Otherwise...holy moly that thing looks sweet! What is the rear travel?
  • + 1
 I hate to be a jerk when a small brand shows something unique that's close to their heart, but this is shit. The fluffed writing, the design, the "no chain effect". It's all shit. Yeah I'd buy one if I had the disposable income to buy novelty bikes but this is not an "enduro bike".
  • - 4
flag TheSlayer99 (Jun 12, 2019 at 2:52) (Below Threshold)
 The writing isn’t good I’ll give you that, but what is wrong with the design and the no chain effect. This is by all means an enduro bike, not just a novelty bike.
  • + 2
 It seems like a bad idea to put a comment about Asian frames in your press release when you obviously don’t know how to weld or design a modern mtb frame.

The first clue was the titanium lol.
  • + 1
 First, maybe the worst name in MTB. Second, while I commend folks on trying to build a super durable bike, really, good ol' alu last a good long while and is cheaper and easier to deal with. I mean, ti tubes look pretty, but there's no way I'll find that bike that pretty or appealing in the amount of years needed to warrant the use of ti, if that makes sense. The drive side looks great, and it could ride like a dream, I'm just still not convinced ti will ever be the most practical application for a longer travel full sus bike.
  • + 3
 Sexy design! I like seeing builders using alternative materials like titanium for bikes other than XC/backcountry machines and this one looks super good.
  • + 1
 Great to see someone else thinking outside the box! Owning a Kingdom Hex LS for a few years and can’t justify buying any other bike...the people who say titanium makes no difference, obviously have never tried a ti rig to understand!? These days you can buy a good Ti frame at the same cost of a premium carbon...so why not?
  • + 4
 Owners will have a lot of lockout-lever-shaped holes in the left calf!
Do you think it'll all be worth it?
  • + 1
 u just need to run your right foot front and it will be OK Big Grin Big Grin
  • + 1
 @matzx: And not pedal. So it's a scooter then!
  • + 5
 Sensual forms? Ooh la laa
  • + 1
 Sensual form aside, I would rather not have my compression adjuster rip my left calf open...or get off to the left and have my thousand dollar shock taking the impact. Very nice looking bike other than that..
  • + 3
 Am I the only one, who, while skimming the headlines read this as Canondale and thought WTF!
  • + 4
 Left shock, all is missing is a lefty Fork.
  • + 2
 At least when you realize that it doesn't ride that great you can crack a beer.
  • + 4
 Chlamydia?
  • + 1
 Awesome bike, I was able to see it in preview at Velovert festival last week. Such a beauty. The new mavic deemax look great too
  • + 1
 And its a better bike in real ! Ive seen it on the mavic stand two weeks ago.

These guys are serious frame builders, I can tell you !

Keep on caminade ! ;-)
  • + 1
 How come the welds look like this is their first Ti frame ever?
  • + 2
 @Loche: Main pivot is co-centric with BB. The tube bellow is for stiffening of bb area or something, but it's not a pivot.
  • + 2
 Asymmetrical shock placement messes with my OCD.
  • + 1
 Alright titanium and on sided shock mount mhm let’s call it the super bender - optimised for left turns
  • + 2
 @Loche: We love you too elk sucker Smile
  • + 1
 Easiest access to adjust your rear suspension. Other people bury it in the frame, these guys put it out there on a post!!
  • + 1
 Pretty interesting design. Wondering what the chance of getting something squashed in the exposed rear shock?!!!?
  • + 2
 specilized demo 8 ENDURO EDITION
  • + 1
 @lkubica: Buy a Zumbi made in Poland so you can feed your nationalist appetites.
  • + 1
 Regardless what you think of the bike, shout out to Öhlins USA— those guys answer the phone every time I’ve called!
  • + 1
 Looks awesome but guessing you’d struggle to get even a 125mm dropper in that seatube? Kudos either way!
  • - 23
flag shredright (Jun 11, 2019 at 13:32) (Below Threshold)
 Droppersarefordouches.com
  • + 1
 My thoughts too! Suspension designers need to make dropper extension/seat tube length a massive part of their designs. If single pivot then just run a yoke around an uninterrupted seat tube. 460ish full length seat tube then lets most run atleast a 170 drop in a large frame size
  • + 2
 @shredright: you must be too cool for suspension and brakes too, that stuff is for losers am I right?
  • + 3
 @shredright: u must be a straight up lycra wearing xcer straight out of 93! Bar ends and all brah!
  • + 1
 You can but you have to put it on the left side of the seat tube.
  • + 1
 similarities to the newer Demos with that asymmetric shock placement, but to an extreme!
  • + 1
 Beautiful looking bike! But can't stop thinking about missing skin on my ankle bone.
  • + 1
 Just needs a lefty fork....
  • + 1
 No mention of the wheelsize?
  • + 1
 It looks really nice. Good luck with production. Cheers
  • + 1
 poo poo lets stick a bottle opener on it, ok lets
  • - 1
 "Super Boost Plus, the new standard" SMH NO! But maybe that moves the shock far enough inboard to not whack your knees / shins on?
  • + 1
 oohhhhh myyyyyy goooooood….just look at this BEAUTY
  • + 1
 Thought it was a URT for a second
  • + 1
 Well yeah, it took me longer and a good couple of hard looks to realize that it isn't. Not sure how bad URT is when the bb is slightly below the pivot (so that it moves a tiny bit rearwards as the suspension compresses). It would be like a mm of bb movement per cm of a axle movement, doesn't sound like a big deal if it makes things more simple and still performs fine. Obviously that old design by Klein was a bit of an issue and the bb must have moved as much as the axle.

Either way, the bike looks pretty as it is now.
  • + 1
 @vinay: sure but in our fickle mtb world it is already dated with that slack seat angle and all..
  • + 1
 @bohns1: Just out of curiosity, how tall are you?
  • + 1
 @stiingya: 6'2 and few.
  • + 1
 Well that's kinda friggen AWESOME...
  • + 2
 Rear shock looks tiny!
  • + 1
 Wonder how much that thing weighs
  • + 1
 I “came in hard” aboard the caminade!
  • + 1
 Wondering how long the bearings will last. Good luck lads!
  • + 2
 Sensual lines Lol
  • + 2
 Seat tube angle?
  • + 0
 Well...it’s interesting. I’d like to see s real world review when completed.
  • + 0
 i initially thought this was an EVIL bike of some sort. its beautiful for sure.
  • + 1
 I wonder if FEA has been done on it. Titanium is notoriously flexy.
  • + 1
 Those welds. Good luck with Ti...
  • + 1
 Upside down GT i-drive
  • + 1
 omg wtf
  • + 1
 It's simply beautiful!
  • + 0
 Aaaand the Specialized references begin.....
  • + 0
 Why would anyone make a Specialized reference? If anything it's a throwback to the early Pole designs which were concentric BB pivots but then switched to a dual parallel link and the Machine uses an asymmetrically placed shock.
  • + 3
 @alexsin: obviously he means it looks like a session.
  • + 1
 @alexsin: r/whoosh
  • + 1
 Or nah...
  • - 1
 A lefty shock. Interesting.
  • + 0
 #lookslikeademo
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