Cannondale Habit Carbon SE - Review
What do you think of when you see that a bike has 120mm of travel? There's a good chance Lycra, skinny racer types and even skinnier tires come to mind, but it doesn't have to be that way. With the 120mm travel Habit, Cannondale is jumping into the short-travel, big-fun niche that's opening riders' eyes to how much of a good time a "little bike" can be on challenging terrain. While the ten bike Habit lineup all sport the same 27.5'' wheels and 120mm of rear wheel travel, it's the $4,480 USD Carbon SE model reviewed here that receives a few winks and nudges towards getting a little rowdier than its siblings. The up-sizing includes 10mm more travel up front from the new 130mm stroke Lefty 2.0 Alloy OPI strut that gives the bike a 67.5° head angle (half a degree slacker than the tamer bikes), as well as more aggressive tires and 180mm rotors all around.
Habit Carbon SE Details
• Intended use: cross-country / trail
• Rear wheel travel: 120mm
• Wheel size: 27.5"
• Carbon front triangle, alloy rear
• Lefty 2.0 Alloy OPI, 130mm
• Internal dropper post routing
• 1.5'' head tube
• 12 x 142mm axle spacing
• Weight: 27.5 pounds (12.47 kg)
• MSRP: $4,480 USD
• Intended use: cross-country / trail
• Rear wheel travel: 120mm
• Wheel size: 27.5"
• Carbon front triangle, alloy rear
• Lefty 2.0 Alloy OPI, 130mm
• Internal dropper post routing
• 1.5'' head tube
• 12 x 142mm axle spacing
• Weight: 27.5 pounds (12.47 kg)
• MSRP: $4,480 USD
It's probably not out of line to say that the Carbon SE's mother might have been a cross-country whippet and its father a husky trail bike, with their 27.5 pound offspring clearly growing up to be a high-spirited thing that doesn't give a shit if it confuses people about its intentions so long as the rider is having fun. Sure, you could do a cross-country race on it, and no one would tell you that you can't show up to an enduro event aboard the Habit, but I suspect that the turquoise bike's main purpose is to just have a good time.
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Frame Details
The Habit's carbon fiber front triangle is said to employ a unique blend of materials that make it especially resistant to impact strikes, say from a rock that gets thrown up by the front wheel or if the bike gets put onto the ground at speed, and Cannondale feels confident enough in the frame's ability to shrug off such hits that they don't include any type of bolt-on down tube protection. The buzzword that they use here is 'BallisTec Carbon', and Cannondale says that the technology is actually similar to what's used in, of all places, the baseball world: ''The resins we use are high strength, high impact resins similar to what is used in the construction of carbon baseball bats; light, stiff and designed to endure thousands of deformation cycles.''
The Lefty and its one-piece upper leg and crowns attach to a full length 1.5'' head tube.
The lightweight carbon rocker link is moulded by compacting thousands of pieces cut from pre-impregnated carbon fiber.
There's a big 1.5'' head tube up front that's home to an equally large steerer tube, and there are two cable entry ports just aft of the head tube. One of these is for the hydraulic hose for the Monarch shock's XLoc remote that comes on the more expensive Habit offerings, while the other is where the KS LEV Integra's internally routed cable feeds into before going all of the way to the bottom of the down tube and then up part of the seat tube. More companies should route their dropper cables this way rather than having them on the outside of the frame until they reach the seat tube. The rear brake and shift lines are located on the underside of the down tube, being held in place with bolt-on aluminum guides.
Cannondale was actually the first to come up with the BB30 bottom bracket design that allows the use of a massive 30mm diameter aluminum spindle, having since made it a free international standard that frame and component manufacturers can use. I remember working as a mechanic at a Cannondale dealer when BB30 was introduced back in 2000 and, regardless of how you feel about press-fit bearings, it was a fairly wild idea compared to the threaded shells we were used to back then. Moving farther back, the rear brake caliper attaches onto the chain stay via the new flat road standard and an adapter that bolts to it. This is said to be lighter, more reliable and easier to produce in carbon, and Cannondale has matched this on their aluminum rear ends as used on our SE test bike. There's also a 12 x 142mm QR axle holds the wheel in place - nope, no Boost.
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 The Lefty might look like it's a wild idea from the future, but the single-sided strut has been confusing people since the late 1990s. |
Lefty 2.0 Alloy OPI
Cannondale's Lefty strut (it's not really a fork, is it?) is probably one of the most polarizing mountain bike products that's ever been manufactured, with its out of the norm appearance simply making it a no-go for a lot of riders. I've always found it a bit amusing that people swear the single-sided strut, which has been around for well over a decade, will never stand up to how they ride, then they happily drive away in their car that has all of its wheels held on from just one side. Same goes for the landing gear of most planes. Different horses for different courses, of course, and it's good to think critically, but the Lefty architecture is about as proven as it gets, and Cannondale has also made some important updates to the design.
Internally, the aluminum stanchion is actually square, and the inside of the upper leg matches that shape, with four strips of roller bearings allowing the two pieces to roll rather than slide into and out of each other. The square-in-a-square design is what keeps the leg from rotating, whereas a traditional fork slides on bushings and depends on the axle and brake arch for torsional rigidity. The new Lefty design uses 3D forging to create a one-piece lower leg and stanchion that allows for a round external section, and therefore a more traditional fork seal can be employed to keep gunk out rather than the old accordion-style fork boot. It also lets Cannondale add a glide bearing to further enhance stiffness. The same 3D forging creates the one-piece upper leg and fork crown unit that means Cannondale doesn't have to bond or bolt those sections together. Less pieces means less complication and less weight.
The fork can be firmed up by pushing the green button at the center, while pushing the red rebound dial re-opens the Lefty's compression circuit.
The clever modular brake mount is slotted to allow you to remove it without having to completely undo the bolts or re-center the caliper, although you obviously don't have to take the wheel off to fix a flat.
A revised PBR Isolated Damper with Trail+ tune is dropped into the strut and allows the rider to firm the fork up by pushing the green button (that's the 'Push Button' in the name) on top of the fork crown, while the red rebound dial that encircles it (that's the 'Rebound') is pushed to open the damper back up. The rider can't tune the amount of low-speed compression - it's either locked or wide open. The Lefty's air spring pressure is adjusted at the bottom of the leg by removing an anodized aluminum cap, and the bike comes with a number of different sized volume spacers that can be dropped directly into the air chamber to help create a more progressive stroke. It's interesting to see that the spacers don't thread or clip into place as on other forks on the market, but simply slide right down into the leg.
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| The 120mm travel Habit uses a single-pivot, linkage activated suspension system that appears to be fairly simple and light. |
The Habit's Suspension Explained
I know what you might be thinking: the Habit's suspension layout looks a bit, ahem, dated when compared to the fancy pants virtual-pivot designs out there, but the simple design disguises a fair bit of clever engineering on Cannondale's part. The 120mm travel SE employs a cost-saving aluminum rear end (more expensive models feature a carbon tail) that can be boiled down to being a single pivot, linkage activated design, with the main pivot roughly aligned with the top of the bike's 30 tooth chain ring. Like some other relatively short-travel bikes, including the Scalpel that's been in Cannondale's lineup for many years, the Habit forgoes a traditional dropout pivot in favor of a design that flexes as the bike goes through its travel. Weight savings is the most obvious plus - there are no bearings or pivot hardware - but it's not out of line to assume that Cannondale's Zero Pivot rear end is also more torsionally rigid than one with standard pivots, which might be why the bike can get away without a bridge joining the left and right seat stays.
It's all held together with new expanding collet-style pivots that lock into place, and the trick carbon fiber link modifies the leverage ratio while compressing the RockShox Monarch RT DebonAir shock. Cannondale actually claims that the carbon link saves 100 grams over the aluminum link, which isn't a small chunk of weight relative to the link's small size. There's no handlebar mounted remote to be found here, just a pedal-assist lever on the shock itself, although I'd argue that any 120mm travel bike worth its weight shouldn't need to be firmed up so long as you've set it up correctly.
Specifications
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Climbing
Saying that the wall of roots in front of me is kinda steep would be a bit like saying that Jerome Clementz is kinda handy at riding bicycles. I've never met the builder behind the first trail that I pointed the Habit up, but I suspect that he likes to do things like stick forks in wall sockets for fun or cut his fingernails so short that it hurts to touch anything - he's got to be a bit of a masochist to think climbs like this are fun. Screw having a good time, I just want to get up it without tipping over backwards. Then I do just that, and with much less flailing than expected. The Habit found the traction to crawl to the top, over and around wet roots that look more like sleeping anacondas than any sort of plant life, and did it all without any drama. I'm pretty sure that I only need one hand to count the times that I've cleaned this particular bastard, and I know that all of my other successes have been on 29ers with aired-down tires and have come only by cashing in all my chips. Surprisingly, it all happened pretty easily on the Habit.
I'm not saying that the Habit is going to sprout feathered wings and whisk you up all of your tricky ascents, but I will say that this is the first 'tweener-wheeled bike that climbs on par with the most gifted of 29ers when talking about low-traction, technical ups. It's that good. The Nobby Nic tires are pretty grabby, which obviously helps, but the bike's weight distribution and rider positioning is spot-on, while the front-end can be steered around the tightest of corners without things getting awkward and tippy despite the 67.5° head angle. I always like it when a bike's geometry chart lies to me, and this is the perfect example of a bike easily out-tech'ing quicker handling machines in places that it shouldn't be able to.
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| A 120mm travel bike better climb competently, but the Habit gets on up exceptionally well. |
The Habit gets a move on when you're riding up smoother ground that's more about efficiency than handling skills, as it should given that its travel is closer to a cross-country race bike than a big-travel beast. I never felt the urge to reach for the Monarch's pedal-assist lever, even when playing with suspension setup and running more than thirty percent sag, which probably means that the Habit will be more than efficient enough for anyone who doesn't wear white Lycra or fingerless gloves on a regular basis. The SE's upsized tires (they're wider than those on the other nine Habit models) don't exactly roll with a lot of urgency, though, so while the bike is going to feel sporty for anyone who's coming off a heavier, longer travel rig, you'll probably want to swap them out for something less chunky if you plan to ride it in those old fashioned events they call cross-country races. Then again, anyone who's going to be doing that sort of thing more than a few times a year will likely be looking at the SE's slimmer and lighter siblings - this turquoise toy is more for fun than competition. Firming the Lefty up via the green button on the fork crown does make things feel more efficient, but it also caused a strange clunking at the top of the stroke that Cannondale said is a symptom of the damper design. It's a bit disconcerting, but I was assured that nothing is being damaged.
Descending and Suspension
I really enjoy riding bikes that people don't expect to perform well, and not to be to hard on ol' Cannondale, but the East Coast company doesn't exactly spring to the front of my mind when I'm thinking about bikes that put a shit eating grin on my face. No, I think of tiny Spanish cross-country racers and sporty road bikes, or maybe Tinker Juarez. But I also love surprises and underdogs, which is exactly what the Habit is. The bike has less rear wheel travel than the height of a pop can. It's ''missing'' half of its fork. It's very, very turquoise. As it turns out, it's also very, very fun.
The Habit's color might be questionable, but its handling certainly isn't. Cannondale has struck just the right balance up front, as their little bike feels neither nervous and pointy or too slack relative to its travel. The sum of a 67.5° head angle, just the right amount of trail, and what has to be the most torsionally rigid short-travel fork out there, is a bike that nearly does all the thinking for you, even when you should be finding yourself under-biked on a rowdy trail. Geometry and the handling that comes from it is king of all, with travel a distant second, and the Habit only reaffirms that fact as the bike gives you plenty confidence relative to its travel. It doesn't quite match the Process 111 in this regard, the king of short-travel bikes that punch above their weight, but I'd rather be on the Habit during an all-day adventure that's going to put me on fun terrain.
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| On the Habit, even the most flowing and relaxing of trails can be turned into a good time. |
A big reason for that sort of thinking is just how easy it is to make the Habit do whatever you want, even though the bike can still feel like a cross-country machine when you need it to. A lot of riders with a few years of skill can make any bike an extension of themselves, but I suspect that the Habit will widen that range even more. Yes, you can ride it like you're wearing a heart rate monitor and are trying to stay in whatever dumb zone you're supposed to be in, but that'd be such waste given what the Habit is capable of. I nailed long manuals on this bike that I've never even attempted on other machines, which is the sort of thing that can make a ride, at least for me, and I found a bunch of silly and useless natural jumps that I never would have bothered with had I been on most other bikes.
 | The last time I had this much fun I was six years old and in the ball pit at Burger King with a sugar high from a chocolate milkshake. Those were good times, but I think I'd rather be on the Habit with a sugar high from a chocolate milkshake. Some things don't change. |
Enough about the handling; how does the Habit's suspension perform? It erases massive rocks and roots like they're not even there, and absorbs hard landings from huge heights so well that you'd think you're on the end of bungee cord. Just kidding. The Habit has 120mm of rear wheel travel, so you're going to get smacked across the face if you forget that fact, but what the bike does do is use what travel it has in a smart way. Some short-travel bikes ramp up way too fast in an effort to compensate for lack of girth, but all that really happens is that they feel like shit once you get past the sag point. Others put so much focus on all-out pedalling ability, which is arguably not a bad a strategy given their usual intentions, that they just feel harsh regardless of spring rate. The Habit doesn't do any of those things, though. It just works well, which is kinda boring but also really good. You can set the little Monarch shock up with anywhere between 20 and 30 percent sag and not really have anything to complain about, although I tended to prefer running it on the firmer end of the scale and let the shock's DebonAir air can supply the suppleness. That approach worked well for me because I could ride the bike like I'm way younger than I actually am, but not lose that forgiveness at the top of the stroke.
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| Shoulder checking large rocks continues to be a bad idea. |
The bike's Lefty fork is interesting, and not just because I was telling people that you can't ride no-handed because it will lean to one side. It doesn't do that at all, but I managed to convince a bunch of riders that it did. If you're reading this, I'm sorry-ish. As I said above, the fork chassis is unbelievably resistant to twisting. I know many people won't believe me when I say this, but it feels a lot like there's a double-crown downhill fork on the front of the Habit in this regard - just point the bike where you want to go and if you don't get there it's not because the steering let you down.
The Lefty's air spring is also on point, and it comes with a number of spacers that you can drop into the fork if you want it to ramp up quicker. I tinkered around with a few different volume setups and ended up with a pretty progressive spring rate, mostly because I found myself releasing small amounts of air during the first handful of rides in a search for a more active stroke. That just wasn't there, though, which made the front end feel a bit unforgiving compared to what we're used to in 2015. The travel is super smooth, but it's not as supple and active as the latest from FOX or RockShox. Think warm Nutella versus KY Jelly. Damping is decent, however, and there seemed to be enough support that you do have the ability to go a bit low on air pressure without spending most of your time deep into the travel. There is no external low-speed compression adjustment, though, so you best just be happy with the factory setting. Cannondale has what is probably the best fork chassis on the market right now, even if it looks odd and scares people who don't know any better, but they still need to step up when it comes to what's inside of it. And that could happen sooner rather than later, as Cannondale has poached one of the main minds behind RockShox's Pike. I wouldn't be surprised if the next-gen Lefty turned out to be a something very special.
Technical Report
• Pivot Hardware: I had the bike's main pivot loosen off after a few weeks of riding the bike, which only goes to show that you need to stay on top of things regardless of any fancy expanding collet-style pivot hardware. It took about ten seconds to snug up and never came loose again.
• KS Lev Integra: I've given KS' internally routed dropper a lot of heat in years past, all of it deserved, but the latest model that came spec'd on the Habit Carbon SE worked flawlessly during my entire time on the bike - I didn't even have to tinker with its cable tension once. KS also still has the best remote in the biz, even if the plastic body on this OEM version did crack when the Habit went cartwheeling down the hill without me on it, although I feel like the blame for the damaged remote falls more on my poor line choice that day than anything.
• Schwalbe Nobby Nic Tires: I really like these tires. They get more traction than when you use a photo of a puppy on Tinder, and they're predictable in all sorts of conditions... except when they don't have air in them. I'm not sure if it was just an incredibly bad string of luck, but I managed to suffer more flat tires in a month of riding the Habit than I have over the last two years on other bikes. This is not typical of all the new Nobby Nics - the ones on my personal bike have been extremely reliable - but the casing on the Habit's Nics proved to be about as resilient to sharp rocks as single-ply toilet paper, with the result being nearly as messy. All of the cuts were too large for the sealant to plug up.
I can fix a flat tire really quickly thanks to how much practice I had with the Habit's Nobby Nics.
The bike's LEV Integra was trouble-free during the entire test period.
• Short Stem, Wide Bar: Not long ago, I had a 160mm travel test bike that came stock with an 80mm stem, which is laughable while also making Cannondale seem forward-thinking. The SE has 120mm of rear wheel travel and comes with a 60mm stem that clamps onto a 760mm wide handlebar, a combo that felt spot-on for the bike's front-end length and how it wants to be ridden. This is a playful bike and the shorter stem only helps to bring that personality out.
• Water to Spare: I don't feel like I should be pointing out that a large-sized water bottle fits inside of the Habit's front triangle, but the last few test bikes I've written about either only have room for a small bottle or the sole H2O location is on the underside of the down tube. This is a big deal for anyone that likes to do big rides, especially if they don't like wearing a backpack for hours on end..
• Fabric Scoop Seat: My ass felt at home while perched on the Scoop for hours on end, and while everyone's undercarriage is shaped differently, I bet that the very large majority of riders would also get on well with Fabric's most popular seat.
Pinkbike's Take:
| The short-travel Habit is like a cross-country bike if cross-country bikes were more about a good time than breathing through your eyeballs for a few hours while pretending you're enjoying yourself. It's adaptable in that you can ride it all day without feeling like you're being punished for something, but then it reminds you exactly why you're out there: for fun. It's also a good reminder that travel doesn't define a bike, and neither does its appearance. - Mike Levy |
About the Reviewer
Stats: Age: 34 • Height: 5'10” • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 165lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None Mike Levy spent most of the 90s and early 2000s racing downhill bikes and building ill-considered jumps in the woods of British Columbia before realizing that bikes could also be pedalled for hours on end to get to some pretty cool places. These days he spends most of his time doing exactly that, preferring to ride test bikes way out in the local hills rather than any bike park. Over ten years as a professional mechanic before making the move to Pinkbike means that his enthusiasm for two wheels extends beyond simply riding on them, and his appreciation for all things technical is an attribute that meshes nicely with his role of Technical Editor at Pinkbike.
Stats: Age: 34 • Height: 5'10” • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 165lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None Mike Levy spent most of the 90s and early 2000s racing downhill bikes and building ill-considered jumps in the woods of British Columbia before realizing that bikes could also be pedalled for hours on end to get to some pretty cool places. These days he spends most of his time doing exactly that, preferring to ride test bikes way out in the local hills rather than any bike park. Over ten years as a professional mechanic before making the move to Pinkbike means that his enthusiasm for two wheels extends beyond simply riding on them, and his appreciation for all things technical is an attribute that meshes nicely with his role of Technical Editor at Pinkbike.
Author Info:
Must Read This Week
m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=168966
this shit had to be sorted out long ago. seems that if YOUR DEAR CUSTOMER doesn't tell what was going on, you don't take any notice of him.
If they do comment any further that is.
I think they at least owe a (huge) apology for the incredibly unprofessional comment about micheal jackson. I work in the bike industry, and yes I often like to have a joke with customers. But not when I am in the process of declining to warranty a part that cost that person several thousand pounds. Making a joke at that point would be incredibly rude.
Especially when my declining to warranty it was pretty shitty in the first place. A crack there is pretty obviously a design fault. Too much flex in the bendy downtube + not enough flex in the top tube = a crack at the point those two tubes intersect.
There is also the issue of Lefty "rapid bearing migration". It's well documented that the needle bearings in Lefty's will start to migrate and need a reset every 3-6 months. I've personally owned 4 Lefty's and they all needed this routinely (it takes about 5 minutes and is easy). I didn't mind because they seemed to not need new seals as often. However, MANY riders of the previous generation carbon Lefty's have complained that they ride once and this needs to done. A $1,200+, 2-3 year old fork shouldn't need this much attention.
I'm the owner of the cracked Claymore posted in this conversation.
Currently I am biking on Garda, Italy, so I will be quick with this reply.
The thing didn't move a bit from my last post in the thread - I got an test frame from my LBS and thats it, warranty claim was declained.
I got a call from Cdale Eu yesterday, they wanted to know the current situation.
I won't reply till next week... I hope you will understand. Trails are great here at Garda
your nose is growing.....
Just hope PB doesn't censor or delete this interesting "review" (wouldn't be the first time)
So, as I've said in the above reply - nothing really moved from my last post in the original thread. I got a Claymore test frame from my LBS (had to give them the damaged one), swapped the components, and sold the bike in May.
Again, I got nothing from Cannondale, not even an answer (till last week, when I got a call apparently directly from Cycling Sports Group Europe - just a chat, they wanted to know if I'm satisfied with their service (obviously not). They contacted me because the link to my thread was posted here, on this review.
Some of you alluded the problem to my LBS, as if they wanted to get the frame for themselves via my warranty claim. I highly doubt that is the case - when I got the call from Cdale last week, they didn't mention any frame being sent to me. I felt they were sorry for this situation to happen... if this will help other people to solve their warranty appropriately, I'm happy with it.
I have nothing else to add, I kept the topic up to date and that's it, nothing else has happend in between.
Thanks for reading and keeping this topic alive and am sorry on the other side that I even had to post it...
(I'll copy this post as an answer to other forums/comments as well, because I currently don't have time to reply individually.)
Instead, they sell scary short travel XC race bikes, which keep people from riding because they feel like they going to die on every decent, at least a lot of shops in my area do.
And you will still easily find some 26 wheels in 3 or 4 years... It's basically because of people who think like you, that boost is going to spread whereas it has literally not advantages (unlike 27.5 and 29)
Well said. Whoever negged you is a fool. As they say, a fool and his money are easily parted...
@gabriel-mission - You have a point with what you said about people buying into new standards out of fear, but I'm not sure everyone who's wary of buying old standards can be blamed for the profusion and success of new ones. Personally, my wariness has manifested as cautious stillness, not frantic action. I might well be a fool, but almost every non-wear part on my bike, including the frame, is five years old and works perfectly well, and I have little interest in changing that right now. In waiting for the market to settle, I am more likely to be responsible for the death of Boost than for its propagation.
/goes on the shopping list for next time I refresh, because to be honest I am not the aggressive & rowdy rider I pretended to be when I bought my '09 Trance or Demo.
120mm Travel XC Bike is where it's at for the local trails (Sydney, AU)
Sincerely 160mm AM 29er
(Sydney, AU)
I'd love to get a lefty, but alas I see no seller
Looks like a sick bike though! After riding a couple 120-125mm full suspension bikes, I'm pretty sure that's all the travel I'm ever going to need. Makes for a REALLY snappy, nimble bike that you can take out for super long days. As a rider who spends most of his time on a hardtail, I like that it can ease that beat-up feeling you get after 3+ hours riding technical/chunky stuff, but still really requires you to finesse your way through stuff. I think more people on 160mm bikes should give these things a shot, they're crazy fun.
Oh how quickly the mighty can fall... What about Jerome Clementz? HAHA
Just because it looked miles better than these
This thing has 50mm. That's 8mm more than a 27.5 Pike; 6mm more than a 34 or 36 and 4mm more than X-Fusion. (it's 10mm more than Marzocchi and that's just plain funny. Make sure you neg prop me if you love Marzocchi.).
Giant put the 29er crown (well the 46mm offset one) on the Pikes for their Reigns (65 degree H/A) in an effort to speed up the steering. I do not know how they did not end up with the 51 offset 29er CSU and am hoping they tested it and decided on the 46.
Anyway, point is, geo has just gotten slacker and slacker over the years and fork offsets have remained pretty much unchanged so we have these floppy front ends because of arguably way too much trail.
www.mtbzone.com/race/images/otter02_mx_cedric2.jpg
I'll not get into an argument over whether this is right or wrong, as we'd then never get to ride our bikes, but I do think it is important to know your audience. That is why I will swear at work (yes, I even drop the c-bomb on occasion) but not at home - I know where I will and will not cause offence. My kids are fairly young and need to work that out for themselves, and then, if they choose to swear, they are old enough to deal with any consequences. Would I like it, no, but I'd be in no position to judge!
My issue here is that Mike has no control over who does or does not read the article, and that he may be inadvertently causing offence and putting people off what is otherwise an excellent website.
I agree that most kids out there will have heard swearing, certainly once they've hit a certain age, and may even use it, but that is not everyone who uses the site - there are those who find it offensive and, as a reader or a parent, may not want to return to pinkbike. Now we could argue that this is their problem and why change for them, but at the end of the day Pinkbike is a business and should be as inclusive as possible to ensure ongoing success. If it were my business and I could easily ensure I could increase readership, influence and revenue with a simple change that cost nothing, I'd say it was a no brainer. Can you honestly say the swearing in the article made it better, or would you not have noticed if it wasn't there? Some people will certainly have found it offensive though and may choose not to visit the site again, or to not allow their kids onto it, as a result.
Bringing it onto my kids I'm trying to encourage them into mountain biking (or whatever other sport they chose) because it is healthy and promotes risk taking - you only REALLY get better when you push yourself and place yourself into some pretty stupid places. That is a good life lesson in my opinion, and hopefully pretty contrary to some of the 'over-protective' sentiment that people assume. I use Pinkbike to get them stoked on riding - my 2 year old whoops and hollers through Semenuks' Unreal segment and then tries to emulate it on his bike - and it frustrates me when I find swearingon the videos or articles as I CHOOSE not to expose my kids to it. Yes, I'm being overprotective in that respect, but if my 8, 4 or 2 year old started swearing and weren't invited to a friend's house (for example) just as a result of their language and the social conventions that exist I'd find that pretty sad.
I never see these on trails, who's buying them? Who rides them and how have these not gone the way of Betamax and Mini discs???
Thanks for a consistently great website otherwise!
Ps. Usually I'm far more fun than this!
As it happens, I completely agree with @slimboyjim. I sympathise, because it’s very difficult to raise something like this without sounding like a moaner/getting downvoted into oblivion by those who can’t be bothered to actually discuss something.
I just take issue as it isn't necessary here in a bike review. Of course they will hear swearing, but that doesn't mean that it should become routine.
It was meant to be constructive criticism - at the end of the day pinkbike is a business and, as a fan, I want it to be successful. Mike may be putting people off of the website, reducing advertising revenue, etc.
I'll not get into an argument over whether this is right or wrong, as we'd then never get to ride our bikes, but I do think it is important to know your audience. That is why I will swear at work (yes, I even drop the c-bomb on occasion) but not at home - I know where I will and will not cause offence. My kids are fairly young and need to work that out for themselves, and then, if they choose to swear, they are old enough to deal with any consequences. Would I like it, no, but I'd be in no position to judge!
My issue here is that Mike has no control over who does or does not read the article, and that he may be inadvertently causing offence and putting people off what is otherwise an excellent website.
I agree that most kids out there will have heard swearing, certainly once they've hit a certain age, and may even use it, but that is not everyone who uses the site - there are those who find it offensive and, as a reader or a parent, may not want to return to pinkbike. Now we could argue that this is their problem and why change for them, but at the end of the day Pinkbike is a business and should be as inclusive as possible to ensure ongoing success. If it were my business and I could easily ensure I could increase readership, influence and revenue with a simple change that cost nothing, I'd say it was a no brainer. Can you honestly say the swearing in the article made it better, or would you not have noticed if it wasn't there? Some people will certainly have found it offensive though and may choose not to visit the site again, or to not allow their kids onto it, as a result.
Bringing it onto my kids I'm trying to encourage them into mountain biking (or whatever other sport they chose) because it is healthy and promotes risk taking - you only REALLY get better when you push yourself and place yourself into some pretty stupid places. That is a good life lesson in my opinion, and hopefully pretty contrary to some of the 'over-protective' sentiment that people assume. I use Pinkbike to get them stoked on riding - my 2 year old whoops and hollers through Semenuks' Unreal segment and then tries to emulate it on his bike - and it frustrates me when I find swearingon the videos or articles as I CHOOSE not to expose my kids to it. Yes, I'm being overprotective in that respect, but if my 8, 4 or 2 year old started swearing and weren't invited to a friend's house (for example) just as a result of their language and the social conventions that exist I'd find that pretty sad.
-I might be alone but I'm always interested in the posts that are negged to oblivion, I'm curious about comments that create such reactions, especially when they are polite and well worded like yours.
-You promote risk taking and admit to your own swearing, where you judge it to be acceptable. Mike has taken a risk, and as an adult whom this site is for, I applaud that (Although I will admit that I didn't even notice the swear word which perhaps makes comment that in some places swearing is socially acceptable) and also wonder about where you judge it to be okay. This is interesting.
-As a business I think it's great that pink bike is not overly censored. Tbh we are talking about a sound, represented by a symbol, which your children are going to be exposed as you admit. So the confusion for me is that you consider them smart enough to take risks in stupid places but not to work out swearing for themselves. If swearing is as socially unacceptable as you say it is, they will figure it out. 'Not at two years old' you say! Well then the question is, why are you trying to change a website for all, so it suits your 2yr old? You even admit, that it frustrates you, not him. Would it frustrate your 4 year old if they didn't get invited to someone's house because they said a word they read or heard on pinkbike? Maybe, would they fix it with the kid they offended? Most likely. What's more likely is they didn't offend the other kid, it was actually the parents that got offended and that it's actually you that would be sad about it, as you again admit. But then isn't this a problem with the parents? Kids are way smarter than we give them credit for, in terms of offence. I suspect the kids wouldn't give a shit (yes, I did that on purpose) and with that, I will leave it that parents mostly need to take wisdom from their children. Especially as we largely get trained into being hugely offended, by the aforementioned social conventions. Before you ask, no.. I don't have any yet, and yes... maybe I'll see things differently then, and no... I'm not telling you how to think. Just dropping some thoughts. Parenting doesn't look easy at all, I applaud you trying to do your best.
- In relation to risk I think it absolutely right that kids (and adults) should take risk. Something that I worked out in life a bit later than ideal but there you go! However, there has to be a point to the risk or the reasons not to do it outweigh the reasons to take that risk.
I think in these circumstances Mike has just spoken as he would of to his friends and not realised that his language may have caused offence. That was the point I was making about knowing your audience - when you write this article and publish it you lose all control of who reads it. I just wanted to make him aware of the fact that he is offending some people. I don't think that there was any attempt to be risqué or deliberately upset. In relation to the article I see no real benefit to the swearing. Telling things as they are to the upset of a sponsor is a risk, but there is a reward at the end in that you gain trust from your readership. Where is the benefit in using bad language here? Like you said, most people would hardly notice, but you risk losing readership for no real reward, but what if, for example, Cannondale's marketing are parents and take their business elsewhere because they don't want to be associated with it? What if parents no longer feel pinkbike is suitable for their children? He could lose readers and revenue. Oh, and Fwiw, I see pinkbike as not just for adults, but kids too - there's too much good content (especially the video stuff) to keep them out!
- In relation to why it is appropriate for me to swear but not my kids, I would refer you back to my comments on knowing their audience. At this point, their lives are dominated by adult values, whether that be in school, going to their friends houses or staying home, and they need to understand boundaries. They will repeat words and phrases as they are impressionable, and as I said above that could cause them issues with relationships with their peers because those peers are controlled by adult values. As they get older and the level of parental influence on them wanes then that is where they can start to judge audiences for themselves and tailor their behaviour to it.
My belief is that they will grow into far more mature adults if they understand what is socially and morally acceptable. Otherwise they might grow into sociopaths... ;-)
who the hell wants a LEFTY?
answer ...not one single mountain biker.
Why go on with this idiotic display of arrogance?
We, the mtn. bike community, expect to be treated like educated people not fools. We all are aware of sidle load issues
in any retardedly designed axels and this is a prime example.
The only positive side of this concept is "we do not have to extract the front wheel when changing a tube".
........what tube?
I have not extracted my front wheel since installing the hans dampf aover a tear ago and lemme tell ya it only takes 30 seconds to take off the QR15.
Come on Crack'n'Fail get it together and give up this stupid shite. You make nice bikes but adorn them with an anchor and also a deal breaker.
Sounds like a deal to me, they just need to give me one of the two 200mm Lefty's they've got in their labs