Race Face Introduces Carbon Wheel Guarantee

Nov 13, 2017
by Race Face  
There's a wealth of carbon wheels currently on the market, which means that it often comes down to the little details when deciding what to buy. For that reason, we're seeing more companies offering impressive guarantees and warranties that make it a little easier to justify ponying up for a set of fancy carbon hoops.

Race Face are no exception, and they recently announced a two year guarantee for their carbon wheels that covers damage of any kind, including moments of user error, like backing over your wheel as you drive away from the trails. Read on for more details from Race Face, as well as a visual representation of exactly what that guarantee covers.






It’s clear that people love to abuse their bikes. And coming up on 25 years of building industry leading bicycle components, we’ve seen just about every story of JRA imaginable. From botched gaps to bikes on roof racks meeting garage entrances, the tragic stories of components lost before their time get shared amongst riders like folklore. And while these can be fun for wrenches filling in some #bikeshopbingo, we want to ensure our customers are getting the full lifetime of their product, especially when it comes to an investment in ride quality like Next R carbon wheels.

Race Face

Race Face

Race Face believes that our carbon wheels are top of their class; they are so durable we are offering the following 2 year, no fault, guarantee to the original retail purchaser with proof of purchase. At the discretion of Race Face we will, within 2 years of your original purchase, repair or replace your carbon wheel regardless of how the damage occurred or what the damage is. This guarantee covers your complete carbon wheel, including the rim, spokes, and hub with bearings to ensure you have a fully functioning, ride-ready wheel.

Race Face


You won’t. But if you do, we’ll cover it.

Find our guarantee and all the legalese that goes with it at www.raceface.com/guarantee

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188 Comments

  • + 135
 "At the discretion of Race Face..."

That's quite the asterisk.
  • + 87
 I believe they are referring to "repair OR replace", not whether they would accept the claim.
  • + 38
 @lostlunchbox: That makes sense. Thanks for the correction.
  • - 40
flag ctd07 (Nov 14, 2017 at 2:48) (Below Threshold)
 Not so sure, you could literally buy a couple of pairs of these wheels and put the entire company out of business in 2 years buy just destroying evey set you get the moment you receive them and sending them right back, unconditional guarantees with no excess payable are straight out stupid on the manufacturer's part, I know they want to give assurance their products will last but rf and Santa Cruz will, or hopefully should, have a ton of small print on these warranties, otherwise they're financial suicide at the expense of a good marketing campaign.
  • + 7
 @ctd07: Planet X used to have this kind of warranty back in the day (when they used to be about hardcore trials and dirtjumping). They indeed got stuff back from low life who intentionally destroyed their gear (by running it over by a car) just because they wanted a new frame. So they later changed it to that you get a replacement for half the price. Which is still great for those who really need it yet it keeps off the abusers. I think it would be best if RaceFace would implement such a "own risk" here as well. 200 or 300 euro is enough to keep off the abusers but still a great deal if you somehow manage to destroy such a rim beyond repair.
  • + 18
 @vinay: I heard about a guy buying a box of 28 kiwi fruits at Costco, eating 25 and returning three to receive a full refund... which they stupid gave him. Some people have no shame.
  • + 9
 @ctd07: Outside of mountain biking, there's a number of other companies that give this kind of warranty, and it means a lot when I see a company put this kind of warranty out there. All are successful. When I see a company provide this kind of unconditional warranty it tells me they believe in their product and what they make. A shit company isn't going give this when they know the product will fail. For me, it immediately puts them on notice when I find myself in need of something that they make, and I think other people will think this too. For starters, I'm impressed, I haven't seen anything like this as far as warranties go in mountain biking, and for something like wheels which get hammered more than other parts, that means a lot. When I need wheels, RF will be in definite consideration.
  • + 6
 @ctd07: I would assume after like the 3rd set, they could use that "discretion" to assume that you are a pain in the a$$ and say no to the replacement. (not you personally ctd but the "you" you are referring to.) And don't forget, RaceFace = Fox. Smile
  • + 12
 @ctd07: I doubt that. Let’s say 10% of sales are fully warrantied (which is probably high) and the cost of replacement is expensed at cost of goods, not retail and excludes sales, marketing and maybe other overhead. So maybe $100-200 max of each sale earmarked for warranty. Probably more like $50. And if they’re smart it is underwritten by a 3rd party, adding the cost to an insurance pool and even further reducing the actual cost per wheel. And the incremental cost of a no questions asked warranty is the at fault claims, they already had warranty for many defects. Fidget with the assumptions, but the actual replacement cost baked into each unit is probably far less than people are assuming and the additions cost of a comprehensive warranty is marginal, with high marketing value. Think of it as an insurance plan and it’s pretty cheap; for comparison my street moto insurance (newish rider) is so high I could buy a new bike every 4 years!
  • + 6
 @jaame: that's classic at Costco. Me ma works the return counter, and has seen everything from nearly full eaten birthday cakes and 10 year old mattresses returned on the last day it was covered. Their motto is 'find a way to say yes.' They will do virtually anything, even return items that were never purchased at Costco, just to keep the member happy. But give your card to someone else to use and they won't hesitate to snip it in half.
  • + 5
 Just like Nox Composites offers. Plus they offer a lifetime crash replacement discount after the two years elapse.
  • + 8
 But, what if I accidentally let Danny Macaskill ride my bike?
  • + 1
 @lostlunchbox: It actually applies to both. From the website linked in the article: "Should it be determined, by Race Face in its sole and final discretion, that a Race Face product is covered by this limited warranty, it will be repaired or replaced, by a comparable model, at Race Face’s sole option, which will be conclusive and binding"
  • + 4
 FTS! This is pure pushing the carbon stuff on us!
Why aren't you so generous when comes to you shite aluminium wheels?
  • + 2
 @kovaldesign: They may actually trust their carbon offering more than their aluminium rims. It is silly that it suddenly appears as if aluminium is the tough material that is good as long as it looks good and lasts a lifetime and all that. This may go for steel and titanium but really a sharp dent (or even a tiny) crack in an aluminium product could lead to accelerated fatigue. And aluminium will always fail due to fatigue when subject to whatever cyclic load. Cannondale at least used to be very clear about this. Their "workhorse" type frames like the Prophet were dimensioned to last you probably longer than you were planning to, but their super lightweight XC and road racing stuff will have a very limited life. Same goes with the FRO (for racing only) line of Intense frames. So yeah, the RF carbon rims could actually be tougher (impact resistant and all that) than what they have in aluminium. This imo doesn't justify the "idiot coverage" but it does make sense that they expect this one to be more likely to survive a flat tire in a rock garden or a horribly cased jump. Actually Olsen could also overbuild his frame for you (add more layers of aramid) and offer the crash replacement. He could also have the frame welded in steel by another welded but despite the added weight he won't offer the crash replacement. Now of course no one is going to roll a car over an Olsen frame and have the heart to get back to him for a free replacement Wink .
  • + 15
 Or you could buy a set of We Are One wheels where the rims are made in Canada, not Asia and get a 5 year no questions asked warranty... And with the hope hubs it's a cheaper wheelset too!
  • + 1
 @ctd07: Need to get a Race Face rep in here to clarify but the wording of the guarantee (followed the link, not just quoting the article) might imply that it's only on your first set and you can't go for it a second time.
"... only applicable to Race face carbon wheels purchased new... as shown by original proof of purchase..."
Could be deliberately worded to be ambiguous for a variety of reasons but long story short: even one time the guarantee is stellar and if it's possible to take advantage of it and you do then you're just a dick.
  • + 4
 @jaame: WalMart is also pretty liberal with their return policy. I guess it shows how little cost there is in the products vs. the PR in satisfaction guaranteed.
  • + 0
 @jaame: I know some people living in England who talk about a lot of situations about compensation and last year I was there myself and on TV there was a show about the culture of compensation in the UK. It's crazy how people get money from such small details !!
  • + 1
 Raceface have always had an "if you manage to break it we'll replace it" policy haven't they?
  • + 2
 @robwhynot: Somebody has a MBA or accounting degree. Very good point!
  • + 2
 @vinay: Did planet-x really change it to "half the price" because of people abusing the system?

I seem to remember buying a zebdi trials frame off them, with the free "no quibble guarantee". When I broke the frame within 9 months of having it, Brant (owner of Planet-X/On-One) flat out refused to replace it, and insisted that I paid half price for new...

I and a few others in the trials community had such a falling out with Brant, that he eventually pulled the zebdi from sale within the UK!

People abusing the system wasn't the problem in its entirety, Brant had a lot of issues he seemed in capable of dealing with at the time!
  • + 1
 Santa Cruz offers lifetime no questions asked, so this ain't it shit.
  • + 1
 @vinay: The kind of scumbag who runs over his dirt jumper probably isn't buying carbon wheels, just a hunch.
  • + 27
 @Powderface like @lostlunch mentioned, at discretion of Race Face we will evaluate if the wheel should be repaired or replaced. Ie. Your bearings are cooked but your wheel is otherwise working great, then we will press in new bearings and send it back. We do not want to fill up the ocean with great wheels with rough bearings. All destroyed product will be recycled to minimize environmental impact. We want people to have great wheels for the full lifetime of the product!
  • + 2
 @ctd07: hush. no more dick whatifs
  • + 2
 If u can't match the reserve warranty then why am I reading this.
  • + 1
 @raceface: So why no lifetime guarantee against fair wear and tear after two years?
  • + 1
 @jonnyboy: no I busted my seatpost they said I didn't clean it enough.
  • + 1
 I can't make a comment on this because I don't know how much each rim costs to manufacture, the msrp, warranty/repair time and amount of rims they are planning to sell. But considering the mark up on everything else mountain bike, it is a no brainier. Everything MTB should have a warranty like this because it is still going to go obsolete when MTB creates a new standard.
  • + 79
 I want a no ocean fill gaurantee. No carbon nothing until then.
  • + 14
 Totally agree!
  • + 13
 Agree no Ocean fill. Are they willing to repair or replace the damage done to the environment from their outsourced far eastern manufacturers?
  • + 7
 @Mojo348: for all we know, there might be a fish that can eat carbon and resin.
  • + 18
 Don't have kids, and you're a-okay.
  • + 21
 Is that ocean fill story still only based on the comments of Pole? I mean they said that they 'heard' that this happens in China, but do we know if this really common practice? For the record, I'm not trying to deny it, it's just that when I google it I only find references to the Pole story and no other source.
  • + 5
 @jaame: I almost guarantee there are fish that eat it. They may not feel to well as a result tho...
  • + 15
 @cvoc: Same. I couldn't find a single resource from anything, not the Sierra Club, wikipedia, not a single source other than the Pole article. Anything else I found referenced the Pole article. Personally I think they don't want to take the time or energy to use Carbon and are making #*$@ up about why they're not putting the money into carbon manufacturing. At least that's how it looks without any evidence. The second I get evidence I'll gladly eat my hat on that one.
  • + 4
 @kmg0: don't have kids, import immigrants
  • + 2
 @cvoc: it's on the internet it has to be true
  • + 5
 @cvoc: sick bicycles had a picture of hundreds of failed QC frames on a barge on their instagram
  • + 3
 Well said, we're finally seeing vocal backlash to carbon these days. When the big dogs like Santa Cruz are offering the Nomad in alloy again it makes you wonder if the fancy carbon market isn't all that it's cracked up to be? Also this: nsmb.com/articles/if-it-isnt-carbon-are-you-still-mountain-biker
  • + 5
 @kmg0: I have usually said the same but as I get older isn't there something self defeatist about killing your lineage? Letting the rich elite inherit the world? What if your kids are the next geniuses that turn things around for us? Plus is it really ok to pollute as long as it doesn't harm you and you only during the present day? You are really ok with letting every other living thing suffer from your actions or lack of action?
  • + 0
 @loganm2977: whether or not you see a full carbon frame floating in the ocean some day is mostly irrelevant. The bits of plastic and resin and polymers are making it into the ocean and it's a huge problem. Carbon manufacturing is not sustainable and there are no known ways to recycle it.
  • + 9
 I hate to burst your first world bubble, but nearly everything you do and consume contributes to ocean fill, pollution, and a host of other environmental issues. Carbon bike parts are probably not even a rounding error in the ocean fill /pollution equation. There is simply no way around pollution in modern society. I think the world is SLOWLY awaking to this fact, at least the first world, but we have a long ways to go. The third world is too busy just trying to survive.
  • + 3
 @Boardlife69 This coming from the dude that obviously rides a carbon YT, the hypocrisy is real folks...
  • + 9
 Just to remind everyone: dumping carbon fiber into the ocean is TOTALLY ILLEGAL in China. Not only that, but China is leading the way in carbon fiber recycling efforts: www.chinadaily.com.cn/m/cip/2016-01/27/content_23283762.htm

Bottom line is Pole gave us all a line of BS as an excuse not to use carbon fiber.
  • + 3
 @Thustlewhumber: Sorry but an article from "China Daily" isn't exactly source material. Are the researching it? probably, is it in practice? probably not yet.
Also where is the source for dumping carbon is illegal and how are they enforcing it?
  • + 2
 @map-guy: sorry but an article of any kind is at least better than an off hand comment from a bike manufacturer in an internet interview. If you want to demand source material (and you Should, it's great to know how the info we ingest is biased) then demand from both sides.
  • + 2
 @jaame: When will the bicycle industry accept its role in our impending Kaiju doom? That's why I only pilot Aluminum Jaegers, easier on the wallet, and better for the environment after I spill 25 tons of acidic monster goop into the ocean.
  • + 1
 @ClaytonMarkin: SO looking forward to PR2. PR is hands down the 2nd best eye candy to watch on 4K. (first being Avatar, which is a crap movie, but the visual effects are stunning).
  • + 4
 @vtracer: That photo is from behind a factory, not a barge. They are sitting on land.
  • + 2
 I think this is a case of "extraordinary claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". Until I see some decent evidence that carbon MTB parts are 'worse' for the environment than aluminum (a very poorly defined and blanket term for a complex issue) I'm not going to favor one material over the other when considering environmental impact.
  • + 1
 @Mojo348: We almost guarantee your carbon rims. Still waiting to see a carbon frame in ocean. Do they float? f*ck Pole. f*ck carbon cranks. If you're worried about the longevity of carbon rims, you shouldn't get carbon rims. If Canada or U.S. have been that good to you, get We Are Ones or Enve. Otherwise there's little reason not to go full Chinese and bypass all this incorporated Nannyism. QC=warranty. Serious defects appear quickly when item is being put to full use anyway. A truly ambitious business would be to sell just the warranty. It's called Life Insurance.
  • - 2
 @map-guy: carbon is fragile, it's way over rated! But amazing profits from it,
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: I mean, it's perfectly obvious that carbon fibre is an environmental nightmare compared to steel or aluminium. It doesn't matter what you do with the stuff, once it's used once/once it's waste material, it stays that away until you burn it or it rots away in the next few hundred thousand years. No such issue with the metals, people Love to recycle those.

The 'Ocean Fill' calls which have gone around PB are like another Ice Bucket Challenge, but that doesn't make the issue Pole's guy highlighted any less valid.
  • + 2
 @hardcore-hardtail: Yes I have a carbon Capra from 2015. Yes that makes me a hypocrite and you know what? I can be a a**hole and a MFer too, but I care about our planet and people too. Since 2015 I have learned a few truths about this industry thanks to PB. Now that I know this my next bike purchase will not be carbon, in fact I am looking at steel frames made in the U.K. That Swarf is sexy AF. Until then I will continue to shred on my CF Capra cause its still a badass bike and brings a smile to my face every time I drop the seat. But, eventually, it will need to be sent out to pasture. NOW GO ON AND GIT!
  • + 0
 What Chinese media says China does and what China actually does are two completely unrelated things.

Of course it's ocean fill. That is absolutely believable.

My main point of interest is, why does anyone care? I mean, the oceans are huge... and they are only getting bigger thanks to that ice melting in Antarctica. A few thousand frames getting thrown in every year is not going to make any difference to anyone or anything. Well, it might provide homes for some marine life, much like a shipwreck.
  • + 1
 @jaame @gkeele This is what I mean. "Its perfectly obvious" is making a claim with no evidence. "Everyone knows" and "its public knowledge" are not convincing arguments. In a stupid comment section on a mountain biking website no one expects a peer-reviewed metastudy or anything, but there has to be some substance behind a claim.

There is a ton more to pollution and environmental impact than just waste material after the life cycle of a product is over. Strip mining, smelting, manufacturing, etc of metals is not a small thing. There simply isn't any good evidence that tries to take the totality of small scale lightweight structure manufacturing's impact on the environment. It could even be that aluminum pollutes less in some ways but more than others.

Finally, the impact of small parts in a small industry is like comparing a match to the sun. The amount of metal, plastic, and sunk manufacturing energy in a car is probably equal to over a thousand modern mountain bikes.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: You are right but what about the power of one? This is our industry so we are concerned with what we are passionate about so bike manufacturers are the target. Gotta start small, recycle at home and make conscious decisions about what you buy, who you represent etc. and lets face it, we all get lazy, we all buy into hype and at the end of the day we are all hypocrites but 1 recycled pop can out of 10 is better than nothing. The good news is that industries are changing and with automation we should see recycling and optimizing of raw materials as being the most cost effective thing to do. For now our free world allows us to vote with our wallets and shine a light on unethical practices.
  • + 3
 @hamncheez: You achieve shift change one step at a time. Environmental groups recognise this and lobby for the smallest changes in the biggest industries, with public profile. It doesn't matter how much worse the car industry is purely because of scaling, the issue is there regardless.

As for the whole alu vs. CF thing, some cursory research tells me that aluminium and CF have a similar level of embodied energy - about 200MJ/kg. However you get 92% of that energy back by recycling the aluminium (or by using recycled material in the first place). I can't tell you how much you'd get back recycling carbon fibre, but it's a fraction of that, and you can't use recycled CF in place of virgin.
  • + 1
 @gkeele: The problem is that we get stuck on small stuff and ignore the big stuff. While we worry about banning small things, the largest source of air pollution is dirt poor people burning biomass (wood, charcoal, dung, etc) indoors for food and heating. This type of pollution kills more people than any other kind.

Environmental groups have not proven to be effective at getting good government policy. I would argue that government can't in any meaningful way address environmental degradation at all. Look at corn ethanol in the USA; environmental groups teamed up with corn farmers to pass legislation mandating that a certain percentage of US fuel be from ethanol, and that car manufacturers make 'flex fuel' engines that could take the stuff. Ask @WAKIdesigns - Corn ethanol has been the biggest boondoggle in the last 20 years! Without going into details (I'm already way off topic) the ethanol mandate has raised food prices for poor people, it causes way more pollution, it ruins our engines and fuel efficiency, it costs billions, tears up nature for monoculture farms, and enriches a select few at the cost of many.
  • + 0
 @hamncheez: You don't ignore the big stuff, you gather momentum towards it. If I want to run a marathon I don't get off the sofa and try to do it, I do C25K and work in steps towards my goal.
  • + 1
 @gkeele: No, the point I was making is that we should focus on the big stuff first.

In western countries, the demand for fossil fuels is very inelastic; changes in price will not affect consumption that much. However, in developing countries it is very elastic. If we stop artificially raising the price of fossil fuels, then more poor people could afford it and stop burning charcoal indoors. Increasing access to fossil fuels is the single greatest thing we can do to reduce death from pollution.

Next, we can fight against politicians sending us to War. How many carbon frames have to be made to make up for a single Abrams tank that weighs 62 metric tons? War is one of the greatest polluters of any human activity.

Also, we can stop advocating that government do something about pollution- government eefffs it up and makes the problem worse.

These are actual changes, not trying to guilt trip someone out of buying a carbon handlebar.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: You are right.

Have you seen the homestove? It is the two tier idea from the guy who makes the Bio Lite camp stove, but its for developing nations who burn wood indoors. It reduces fuel consumption by 75% and emissions similarly. Pretty neat, its similar to the same argument for actually expanding fossil fuel use which is the raw fuel burning is sooo crappy compared to the efficiency we've been able to afford here
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Can't we do both? I can choose Not to buy something on a purely ecological basis, and all the while people are burning wood and building tanks. You can wring your hands and demand unrealistic change in the developing world while we're driving our carbon fibre around, or you can actually, to borrow a stupid quote, 'be the change you want to see'.
  • + 1
 @gkeele: I agree, we should do both. I just don't see any good evidence that an aluminum or steel part is going to pollute less than a carbon part.

I disagree that theres nothing we can do about the developing world. By promoting free markets and capitalism, plus removing barriers to fossil fuel use, we can save millions from poverty and premature death. This is happening right now. Since the mid 1990s, the absolute number of people living in absolute poverty, defined by the UN as living on less than $1.25/day, has dropped in half. You can learn about stuff like that here:

humanprogress.org
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: You're just twisting my words now... I didn't say there's nothing we can do, you said we should disregard the environmental factors of manufacturing mountain bikes because people are burning biomass. All I was saying is that's completely irrelevant, I still care about the eco-credentials of what I'm riding. If you don't care because of a lack of evidence that's fine, but I feel the evidence is actually fairly clear-cut, if not exactly quantifiable.
  • + 0
 Why would we want to extend everyone's life? There are too many people on the planet. If we can help everyone survive to 80 years old, the problem is going to get worse, not better.
  • + 1
 @jaame: If you think the world's population is too high, lead the charge on the solution then! Be an example and reduce the population!
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: I am perfectly willing to die when the god of death comes to get me, be that today or when I'm old.
  • + 37
 that color pallete on the Santa Cruz tho
  • + 2
 x100 ... that would make me consider riding an Ardent again
  • + 0
 @sennaster: Skinwalls: Kill List.
  • + 37
 Which just means that the cost of replaxemt is built into the MSRP.
  • + 2
 Of course it always is. It just needs to be a bit higher now that they also have to cater for those who intentionally or stupidly destroy their gear.
  • + 10
 Run it over with a car? RaceFace is holding true to their promise of quality parts and service, Good on them! I'm waiting for someone to abuse this....
  • + 30
 Got some minor nasty looking scratches on your rim??!! I might have the appropriate course of action for you:
Run 'em over!

Rims got updated to a new version??! And you Don't like 'em old ones any more??!!
Run 'em over!!!

You have a complete new build kit for a new bike?? But those stupid old carbon rims dont fit into the "new" appearance of your shiny new bike. Run 'em over!!!

You just have a bad day and want feel like you need to destroy something??
Run 'em over!!!
  • + 5
 That's why Mavic's MP3 program was stopped. Since they payed for this "insurance" people wanted something for their money so they sledge-hammered the wheel right before the end of guarantee to get a fresh new wheelset.
That's as stupid as crashing your car every two year cause you paid for insurance and they should give you some money every now and then.
  • + 5
 @Whipperman: well no, because insurance companies will ask " how many cars have you crashed in the last X years" and charge you appropriately for the new insurance.
  • + 4
 That's why awesome warranties/product support is temporary at best. Remember how great REI was? You could return anything, any time for any reason? Then people started thrashing their stuff and returning it for new gear, and now REI has changed their policy because people suck.
  • + 8
 So basically when I buy one of these wheels, I'm also paying for those who intentionally or by pure stupidity destroy their wheels? I'd rather buy my stuff from a company with a sensible warranty program. If I break stuff due to stupidity or even intentionally, I fully understand that I'm the one who's got to cough up. If I don't, I may be in need of a proper slap in the face.

Now of course with RaceFace I'm not too worried. When I bought my current frame (16" DMR Switchback with a 26.8mm seatpost diameter) I had calculated that if I got a 400mm post with a 100mm insertion depth, I could just get it up to XC height to ride to the trails (which were between 30min or 45min from home back then). And when I got there, I could slide the post down to get the saddle nice and low. I got a RaceFace Prodigy post. It worked great, the first few months. At about 75kg or so (with gear) apparently I was bouncing too much when pedaling seated (with platform pedals) so the post bent slightly so that it wouldn't slide down properly. Because RF claimed to have such great warranty I contacted them and explained what happened. They said it is an XC post and it is not for jumping so the warranty is void. I said I'm bending it when riding on road and easy paths on my way to the trails. When I'm jumping I slide it down and stand on the pedals. They insisted it is not for jumping. That was the last time I attempted to make a warranty claim. It isn't worth the hassle.

In RF's defense, I've had NC17 and Azonic posts after that which bent just as well. Now that I moved I don't need to do any seated pedaling anymore so I got a short stubby Thomson post and keep it low.
  • + 5
 The argument, the rebutal, and the rebutal of the rebutal all in one comment ! wp wp
  • + 1
 @polarproton: I think the point is, the market for carbon wheels is saturating fast... and they want to continue riding the gravy train so they need something to sucker more people in!
  • + 1
 So... Their product wasn't durable enough for intended use. They have a warranty, but excluded your use case. Sounds like a stand up company to me...
  • + 1
 @Poulsbojohnny: Sorry, English is not my first language. What does "stand up company" mean?
  • + 1
 @vinay: Stand up means they back their products with good warranty replacement without hassle. In this case, it was sarcasm because Race Face obviously has a history of not doing this.
  • + 1
 @Poulsbojohnny: Thanks for the explanation. Yeah I don't know what's common because I don't regularly make warranty claims. I used to break lots of stuff but usually I knew perfectly well it was my own fault (a crash or something). This was the first time because I thought an XC seatpost should be good for seated pedaling on roads and mellow trails. Most likely they haven't even tested this size because 26.8mm is relatively thin for a seatpost designed to have up to 300mm exposed length. Actually, Thomson doesn't even make them like that. Probably because they actually tested and figured out it wasn't up to their standards. So RF just put out something they haven't tested. On a positive note, I've been running some RF handlebars for a while now (780mm, 31.6 or so clamp, aluminium) and they're keeping up just fine.

There is one other time I returned a battery from Lupine Lighting. To fit a helmet mount to the battery an employee accidentally instructed me to puncture the label and screw the mount onto the exposed hole in the casing. Then when she found out she had made a mistake she rushed to her colleagues who contacted me, explained what happened (she was getting married that weekend and understandably wasn't concentrated) and asked me to return the battery. Because they do everything in house, they could fix it and mail it the same day they received it. Now that's the kind of company that not only backs their warranty, but is actually in the position to do so. Companies who outsource their stuff are more like "yeah that should be covered under warranty but we're waiting for our supplier to get things sorted out and we're hoping to get you a replacement by October". Not worth the bother.
  • + 8
 People here love to complain! We have 8000 carbon/aluminum wheelsets to choose from, many now with great warranties and we still whine, LOL! After about 1yr/3000 miles on my NextSL crankset I had some carbon damage and they replaced them free of charge and sent me the new G4 model, no complaints here. Thanks RF!
  • + 6
 Do people really pay full price for mtb carbon wheels?
I mean, it's something like 1800-2500€ for a set of Enve/DT swiss/whatever (except Light Bicycle, that's another subject).
I know there's people out there buying anything the world has to offer, but I'm curious to know if they cash that amount in the end.
  • + 3
 Dentists need some wheels for biking to work in summer...
  • + 6
 @brodoyouevenbike : bro, I’d never buy a wheel that cheap.
  • + 2
 I guess Bontrager Line Pro 30 are not that expensive (1200$)
www.pinkbike.com/news/bontrager-line-pro-30-carbon-wheels-you-might-actually-be-able-to-afford-2017.html
Bikeradar and Vitalmtb have already reviewed them.
  • + 10
 The craziest thing might what it really costs RF to built these when you see what LB wheels cost. Margins must be IPhone X-like.
  • + 3
 @Whipperman: $103 to make, $999 to you, sir
  • + 6
 We are one composite have a enduro set on hope hub for 1500cad that's not bad at all with a 5 years no questions asked warranty and are made in Canada
  • + 6
 Dunno who pays retail. I feel like everyone knows a friend with a QBP account haha
  • + 6
 Has anyone tried to locate the warranty details on the RF website? I cant seem to find it. It just states send it back to the retailer. No small print makes it reallylooser for RF to reject anything.
  • + 5
 The warranty doesn't mean much if their warranty service sucks. I had a defective Raceface dropper and dealing with them was a nightmare. The guys on the phone were perfectly nice, but for MONTHS they kept dragging their feet, sending me back my obviously-still-defective post again and again instead of replacing it. So I don't trust them to stand behind a warranty on carbon wheels, either.
  • + 4
 Weareone is 5yrs plus lifetime half price, cheaper on Hopes (about the same on p321's which are made in Bend not Taiwan) and the rim is made in Canada from North American carbon fibre.
The experience with race face products at our shop is getting worse and worse and their warranty department is shocking.
  • + 1
 Wheels made in bend, true...
  • + 0
 @donpinpon29:
I mean the hubs are made by p321 in house in Bend Oregon. Wheels are assembled by them, but it's weareone who use p321 hubs with their made in Canada rims and assemble them in house.
  • + 1
 @donpinpon29: NOT made in Bend
  • + 2
 @Bahh: bend, true, etc... sarcasm?
  • + 8
 Smashing deal
  • + 3
 I've been breaking Trek frames, and Bontrager wheels for years and they've yet to balk at a warranty. In the last 10 years they've replaced five mountain frames, two road frames and about 12 wheels. None of it was through negligent abuse, but they probably could have denied one or two of those claims. I broke a frame on Wednesday once and they had my replacement on Friday.
  • + 12
 why do you keep buying their product if you keep breaking it? i dont care how good a warranty is, i would rather not have to use it
  • + 2
 @adrennan: Yeah I was about to say the same thing. By the second bike or wheel I wouldve said tough shit to Trek and moved on. Who cares if a company has a super over the top warrenty service department. Maybe that is a sign that their product sucks.
  • + 1
 better pray for one of those product failures not to result in you getting hurt badly, cause Trek ain't gonna pay bills...
  • + 2
 Who's buying anything? Warranty.

And I ride a Chromag now.

Except my road bike, which is Trek Boone.
  • + 2
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: No hes implying why keep using it or something. Get the warrenty and sell it. Then buy something more reliable. But Chomags are cool.
  • + 5
 @raceface Aren't you worried of abuses by users who will wreck these wheels with unproper usage ou will just want a brand new pair of wheel every year ?
  • + 6
 But if your friend drives over your wheel he pays for it. no guarantees required
  • + 5
 I have Been at the mercy of Race Faces "at Race Races discretion" with Carbon before, NO THANKS!
  • + 3
 Well Reynolds do a lifetime warranty on any manufacturer defect and
Reynolds Assurance Program for crashes etc.

reynoldscycling.com/pages/warranty-guarantee
  • + 3
 meanwhile, I am STILL waiting for the G4 SL Crank replacement to show up, which approved for warranty back in July. I am in California....STILL waiting...
  • + 1
 I wonder if RF customer service has improved the past couple months. Based on my experience as well as others I know, they are hard to get a hold of. I really like their products but won't purchase if they don't have the service to back it up.
  • + 1
 OFFICIAL VERBIAGE:
"Should it be determined, by Race Face in its sole and final discretion, that a Race Face product is covered by this limited warranty, it will be repaired or replaced, by a comparable model, at Race Face’s sole option, which will be conclusive and binding. THIS IS THE EXCLUSIVE REMEDY UNDER THIS LIMITED WARRANTY. ANY AND ALL OTHER REMEDIES AND DAMAGES THAT MAY OTHERWISE BE APPLICABLE UNDER THIS LIMITED WARRANTY ARE EXCLUDED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR PUNATIVE DAMAGES."
  • + 1
 Should it be determined, by Race Face in its sole and final discretion, that a Race Face product is covered by this limited warranty So there is the rub. Race Face gets to determine whether the product is covered by the warranty. Only THEN will they decided to repair or replace. So, sounds like business as usual.
  • + 1
 I like of Race Face products, they are my preferred brand for bars, stems, cranks and even alloy wheels. I have to say even though I do not own a Santa Cruz and am not a Santa Cruz "fan boy" I would have to get their wheels which are a little bit lighter (not much) but come with a lifetime warranty.
  • + 1
 So, this guarantee doesn't seem all that remarkable to me. Only 2 years, and at their discretion. That's not very long, and they have a way out if they want. How 'bout lifetime no questions asked, to the original owner. That would get my attention.
  • + 1
 Race Face has a pretty crappy history. I broke a set of Next Cinch cranks at the crank arm off brand new while wearing flip flops at a local shop after they installed them. Not covered since i was peddling too hard! $400 down the drain. What a joke!
  • + 4
 Pedaling too hard? It's a crank. If it can't take pedaling, there is something wrong with it.

This and other 'warranty' horror stories from Race Face have inspired me to never buy their products. Ever.
  • + 1
 I have the old sixc and nextSL cranks and I ride Whistler bike park hard, 20-30 days a year, and have never had a problem. Must be a quality control issue?
  • + 3
 The only reason the warranty is two years, is because the lead time before they replace/repair is approximately a year and a half...
  • + 5
 This should be two years everything, then lifetime for fair wear and tear.
  • + 1
 Now you could ask how the guarantee is realized.

Are the wheels very cheap to produce?

How long does a wheel take to be replaced? A few days or months?

Any hidden cases in which the guarantee does not cover?

Or is the price simply that high?
  • + 1
 Yeah right. Who’s next in lifetime warranty business? Pile of bollocks. How about this program covers RF carbon cranksets? They can even cover a particular part of them, the pedal insert. Aeffect Atlas and Turbine lines are great, so are chester pedals and the clothing. 30mm spindles are still a miss and I’d never touch a carbon thing from RF
  • + 1
 The wheelset warranty period is 2 years. Crank warranty period is 3 years, and works well.
  • + 4
 @Lornholio:

Shame they wouldn't do a thing about the 2 sixc cranks I've broken, aswell as the numerous cranks from my customers! Sram warranty from here on out! Thanks @raceface
  • + 4
 Waki speaks the truth!
  • + 4
 @Bromaphobe: but Sram carbon Cranksets are also notorious for messed up inserts. Just get a bloody XT or SLX or the excellent Sram alloy X1 or GX that can be run spiderless. It’s 50g-100g more in a place where it least matters.
  • + 3
 yep. seen a fair few snapped sixc bars and cranks
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Of course Sram alloy cranks for me, but if I wanted carbon I'd go Sram because their warranty actually replaces your broken parts!
  • + 1
 Dupe - sorry.
  • + 3
 @i-ride-things: I got a pile of RF broken cranks and bars too. Not all carbon either! I would never buy wheels from them after breaking some much of their crap! ! !
  • + 1
 @MX298: wow you mean from downhill use, not crashing just riding?
  • + 1
 @Bromaphobe: raceface warranty is that tough?
  • + 4
 Santa cruz has lifetime warranty on the carbon rims, rf only 2years? Hmmm
  • + 2
 There's a significant difference between a warranty and a no-questions-asked replacement.
  • + 1
 @stevemokan: one is for people who plan to ride their wheels and dont want to worry about rock strikes, and one is for people who plan on running over their wheels with a truck after 23 months?
  • + 0
 2 years just isnt long enough. 5 years minimum, at least have a warranty that lasts long enough before its time to upgrade. At just 2 years I would rather buy used for half price, if they break before 2 years then I can get another set or go with something else.
  • + 0
 This should be interesting.. Not sure how I feel about this program either knowing the amount of turds that ride bikes. somehow we've been infiltrated by folks that will totally take advantage of this. Hopefully RaceFace has the discerning eye to extend the guarantee in situations that make sense. Seems like a generous amount of good-will is built into it. We all know how good their stuff is.. so breaking these wheels through normal riding doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
  • + 0
 @funniboan we're definitely looking to keep good wheels repaired and on the road with this program. Evaluating a repair or replacement will help to ensure parts that work are reused, and parts that are broken are recycled accordingly. Extending the life of the wheels is really the end goal.
  • + 1
 @raceface: Looking forward to seeing these in action. Thanks for the feedback!
  • + 0
 Easton were the first to have a 2yr no quibble warranty on carbon wheels. WAY BACK in 2011. Race Face bought Easton a few years ago. The very same concerns were floated about owners deliberately damaging wheels at month 23. Clearly, the economics of the warranty worked as they continued that policy for years.

I bought two pairs of Easton Haven carbon rims. (I didn't pay full price circa £1000 instead of £1500) I cracked every rim several times. Easton replaced them every time.

So I don't doubt Race Face will honor their warranty especially as they have announced it so publicly.

However, I wouldn't be fooled into thinking that a great warranty = stronger than anyone else wheels. In the case of the Easton Haven rims they were not bad. But I broke them numerous times. The bottom line is you can't have light and unbreakable.

The question you have to ask yourself is, are you prepared to write off £1200 ($1500) over two years? That's what it amounted to for me. As I cracked these rims every 3months to 9months. Once out of warranty the replacement/rebuild cost per rim was £600 ($790) which was painfully but the real show stopper was due to their poor hubs. I couldn't take the chance of putting a new rim onto a fecked hub and apparently you couldn't build their rim onto another hub.
  • + 3
 I broke a pair of RF SIXC cranks, in warranty period, we’re not covered. Buyer beware!
  • + 2
 Uh oh, why not? I have had 2 sets of Next cranks replaced within the first year of the warranty. The second time they gave me SixC to fix the problem. I still have almost 2 years left on the warranty from my initial purchase date. I hope they dont turn down a replacement if the SixC's break!
  • + 1
 @PsychoT: I clipped a pedal on a rock at Mtn Creek and they snapped. Said it was outside the scope of intended use. Instead gave me prodeal in newer version, which was still about $300 after having to upgrade to the Cinch “standard”. I’m done w/ raceface after that.
  • + 4
 I'd go for the rims, but don't want the hubs etc...
  • + 1
 New Zealand company Wheelworks offer a lifetime impact replacement on thier carbon wheels. Can also fully customise your decals. www.wheelworks.co.nz
  • + 0
 carbon fiber hoops are very very expensive compared to Al.
two year warranty?
thats a joke.
how about a five year crash replacement.
You wreck em yo get new ones at half price.
  • + 1
 Crash replacement with a fee would be better, that would keep the price down, an we wouldn’t have to pay for all abusers that will want new wheels after 23 months.
  • + 0
 This whole carbon rim thing is getting pretty funny. what's wrong with that stuff?
Any component reliable enough doesn't need this sort of bait to attract innocent prey.
  • + 2
 so if I want new wheels, I shall buy a truck 1st?
  • + 2
 Can we talk about how good the santa Cruz looks though...
  • + 1
 PS I should say, These new RaceFace carbon wheels are a totally different design in every way
  • + 0
 Awesome! Because it's just a matter of time before they crack! Because carbon sucks and it's for suckers, ok bring on the bitching I'm ready hahaha
  • + 0
 Challenge Accepted.. I have been running carbon wheels on my Yeti DJ for a while now.. But with a guarantee like that.. I could try them out..
  • + 1
 So when they move to "Boost Plus" in 18 months time just drive over your outdated wheels?
  • + 1
 So, basically, when your warranty near the end, you intentionnally fuck up the wheels. Noted
  • + 1
 What about aftermarket RF Carbon Rims? Does the warranty apply or to them or only complete wheelsets?
  • + 1
 Funny I see a Santa Cruz with race face hoops instead of a rocky. Swipe at reserve maybe. Or
  • + 2
 it that Blake Samson in the last photo
  • + 1
 I don;t think so, only because there is a pickup truck and those are rare in the UK.
  • + 0
 Bet they're going to be as durable as their next cranks... aka loose goosy pedaling sticks
  • + 1
 New tyres too, by the looks of it.
  • + 1
 That's good... Now they should warranty their POS droppers
  • + 0
 I cant wait til this nude tire fad is gone. looks awful. Especiailly since I had to buy this crap 25 years ago.
  • + 0
 2 year no fault, no questions asked guarantee but at the discretion of RaceFace!!! Wtf? lol
  • + 1
 Santa Cruz carbon wheels have a way better warranty.
  • - 1
 The cost of honouring the warranty is factored into the price so forget replacing accidentally damaged wheels and make the retail price lower.
  • + 1
 MASTER.... MASTEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!! Metal for life!!!
  • + 1
 Jason Aldean just ruined muh carbon!
  • + 2
 Still can't afford them.
  • + 3
 Yep, how did bikes become so elitist? I worked as hard as I could after high school, and made like zero dollars, and I was always pretty top health wise, and okay mentally in school. Getting f*cked into the ground.
  • + 5
 @Kramz: the only thing you get in life for hard work is a sore back and more hard work
  • + 1
 @properp: Yeah, and honestly now I don't have hard work, and I'm losing my mind 24/7.
  • + 3
 @Kramz: figure out how to make a living working for yourself. No sense and working to make someone else rich and you ending up with a sore back. I got laid off in 2006 from my factory position. I've been working for myself ever since and would never go back. Dedicate your life and all holidays to someone else's workplace. As soon as times get slow low they put you out like a piece of garbage.
  • + 1
 RIP carbon fibre
  • - 3
 We r one is...5years..
  • - 2
 Santa Cruz is moving the market.
  • - 2
 Ibis moved it a few years ago. Santa Cruz is just playing catch up.
  • - 2
 @stevemokan: I could see how you’d make that argument. However, Santa Cruz did more than catch up.

Ibis provides “low cost” replacements for 7 yrs. In my experience, the costs were ok but not low.

SC is providing free lifetime replacements overnighted. I’d call that a big step up.
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