Cedric Gracia Questions if Something is Wrong with Rampage - Video

 I both agree and disagree. His run was sick. Honestly I think pretty well all the runs at Rampage are sick. However, here is the link to his line: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYFqlQ78BHA . It's crazy, but compare that the other end of the spectrum with Semenuk's run here: www.redbull.com/int-en/red-bull-rampage-2016-top-3-runs. Both runs have been worked in from top to bottom but Semenuk's has some huge jumps thrown in as well. In terms of competition format, big mountain competition, of which Rampage is basically the only one, has evolved into somewhat sculpted lines instead of raw sending it. I honestly don't think it's a bad thing, it's just different.

Also, the argument of saying less dig time but more safety for riders seems contradictory. The more time you can put into a line means that a crazy drop or section can be made a little more safe. Is this really a bad thing when the riders are sending 40ft, 50ft, 60ft+ drops? Not in my opinion. "It's too smooth." Really? Too smooth a lip and landing on a 60ft send and where crashing on either side means death? Better to leave a few rocks that could throw them off line right before?

Cedric's drop at 1:50..insane! How the hell did he hold onto that? But there is barely a landing and he bashes down so hard, it's not a sustainable way to have a contest. THAT is how people get wrecked. but now they shape the lip and landing and it's what...tame? Rampage was crazy then, and it's still crazy now.

 @juicebanger: You pretty much hit the nail on the head on all of that. In my opinion Cedric stomping Bourdo's drop was one of the most impressive things done in the competition's history because he was basically landing on single track, not a formed landing. The crashes Bourdo and Lance Canfield (I think it was him) took the year before made it seem like it was impossible to ride away without more serious work to the landing.

I completely agree with Cedric on the point that I really hope the judges don't award more for tricks but rather gnarly lines but either way, I'm not going to be disappointed. RAMPAGEEEEEE

 @juicebanger: freeriding is in essence riding freely on untouched terrain. That's why he said "keep it natural".

 you have to think also that riders have huge amount of input on progression of rampage. if they wanted it untouched and natural they would keep it that way. but sculpting and creating lines out of natural terrain is also a much respected skill and seeing these riders not only hit ridiculously risky features but knowing that they made it in a week showcases these riders' creative sides

 Tricks should only be worth 10% imo. Make it about size, and the line.

 WHAT IF... they didn't show the judge scores until the end of all of the runs? Once everyone finishes their first run, they reveal the scores. Once everyone finishes their second run, they reveal the scores. It would allow riders to focus on doing their best run each time without the distraction of seeing other people's points. I think the real-time judging is a solid buzzkill for spectators and riders alike.

 @thinkbike: THIS

 @thinkbike: I think you’re onto something here

 @thinkbike: Dude! That totally should happen!

 @thinkbike: Absolutely. The judging is so out of wack. The riders deserve a fair system considering they are quite literally risking their lives.

 @konarrider2007: Hello other pinkbike user with embarrassing name.

 @juicebanger:

 @thinkbike: Where have riders said they're distracted by other peoples' scores? Last I checked, the riders have always had a plan from the beginning and they stick to it regardless of the points awarded.

 @scott-townes: why does Fest Series exist? Save the real-time judging format for slopestyle. The scores could be announced at the awards ceremony so nobody would know who actually "won" until it is all over. A format like that would put a fresh separation between the riding and judging. It would also add weight to viewer's choice and rider's choice voting which is announced at the end.

 @DrStairs Tricks can be shown for 1-3 seconds on promo clips, and general public is going to be WOAH!!!!
Lines are only understood by people who actually ride, and the footage does not have the same value for advertisers.

Redbull is running the game and they want SPECTACULAAR footage to feed to general public and make advertisers interested.

Good, bad? I don't know. But it is not the same thing as the original Rampage.
This is a package for mass consumption.

 @thinkbike: Fest series has always been a jam session format. Rampage has always been a run scoring format. Again I ask, where did any rider say another person's score affected their run? All the riders have their runs planned out which doesn't change because so-and-so scored a 90. Personally I feel like its a completely pointless idea.

 A few years back, Brendawg hits some billy goat line that I doubt anyone else there could hit (it is what it is), gaps a canyon and gets 8th. A few guys dead sailor most of their run, do one trick off a big drop and presto, podiums and higher rankings. the whole thing IS becoming a slope-style event for the fact that runs like that aren't rewarded, but running the ridge line to do one large man made feature is. it's getting smoother, and I think that's CG's issue, not the tricks as much as the course itself.

 @juicebanger: Sorry everybody, looking back on footage and results, I was thinking of Doerfling’s run. He had that rad chute, but wasn’t even featured in the nbc coverage and got that really low score. Worst yet, I can’t find his run anywhere to remember how rad it was. I guess I was thinking of the Claw because they were both earlier riders who started on the same side of the mountain, it’s just that Claw was on my mind after that Tatshenshini feature.

 @thinkbike: Yes - This would also eliminate the part of Rampage where the camera is thrust into the rider's face (who may or may not be stoked about their run) while the judges tally the score. This would save time between runs and decrease the risk of changing conditions (like wind) over time. It might also open up time for replays, analysis of line choice/amplitude/skill/speed/etc, and panoramic/drone shots of the venue. Thinkbike has some ideas.

 I think Cedric is awesome just like most people do. Klassen, Simmons, Schley. They're all gods. A thought occured to me. I think it would be a safe bet that any of the current crop of Rampage athletes could probably stomp the lines that the guys rode in previous years. Im wondering, all things being equal, if those competitiors from previous years would be able to ride the lines that the current competitors are carving out?

 @DrStairs: I think he and Aggy did the same top section right? They were ripping by the bottom and yeah, that was so damn sick. Doerfling is right up there with what I would consider the top true-to-the-soul freeriders with his chutes and crazy natural lines.

 @rockin-itis: You're going to love this. Check out Cam Zink in Where the Trail Ends sending Tyler Klassin's winning line in 2002 (mainly the massive drop which has since gotten bigger from erosion) but linking it into the Bender Sender hucking a backflip (the stepdown that gave Strait the win in 2004 with a no-hander). Its incomprehensible how much progression has taken place in the past 15 years.

 @thinkbike: Someone forward this to someone that can seriously consider making it so!

 @konarider112: Well said

 @SHARCRASH: #MakeRampageGreatAgain

 @juicebanger: They did and the line this year by Zink, Strait and Pierre joins into that one but they start a lot higher up. I'm surprised Doerfling didn't place better with that run especially considering most were thinking Aggy would have won if he stomped that 3. The judges for a while now have seemed to favor more of a "balanced" run with tricks, fluidity and a gnarly line vs. just a gnar line done well.

 @scott-townes: doerfling cases that long skipper after the chute both runs

 It's tailored to the masses. The masses want massive back flips and 369s. I agree, it's lost its mystique for me. Not a must watch any more, but if it was raw big open natural lines with no tricks, I would feel like that even moreso. It's time to think of something new. Extreme cliff jumping on bikes, into water. Something like that.

 Sandbags gave them massive opportunities for incredible lines last year

 @jaame: I must respectfully disagree with everything that you've said. Except 369s. Speaking as a representative of "the masses", I love 369s the most.

 3 69’s? Nice.

 Exactly. Line choice, air time and a bit of style is what should count. As impressive as it is to see them pull some of these tricks, they should be left to slopestyle events.

 @Allen82: a question for you guys. Can they get bigger air if they are not tricking? I was of the understanding that if they can fly it, they can trick it. It's not like, they could jump 30% longer if they just straight aired, is it? Or is it?

 @jaame: 369 is the dirtjumpers top bedroom move!

 I prefer a daisy chain.

 I dunno, speaking as a spectator, the steep shoots these boys are going for these days are absolutely incredible and exactly what want to see. The Zink/Strait/PEF line this year, Zink's run from 2015, Nico Vink's beast of a roll/drop line from 2015. Add to that the creative gnarly drop lines from Semenuk, Aggy, Lacondaguy etc. and I don't see much to complain about in terms of a big mountain competition. So long as points are awarded both for natural tech and for amplitude/tricks--maybe biased towards the former--the athletes can figure out the best approach is to sculpting the line in terms of smoothness and safety.

 Good luck Antoine. Ride safe, just like your mumma told ya to

 You're a brave man! Not so much for rampage as for venturing into the pinkbike comments...

 Tu vas gagner mec. Freeslope leur la gueule pour nous!

 Allez Antoine!

 I think Cedric jinxed your score mate. This is Rampage Evolution. Rampage ended in 2004. I know they are aiming to get back to the roots by ditching the wood but for one of the guys who introduced tricks and began slopestyle to want greater differentiation between the two is weird. Bummed your line didn't work out up top as you hoped but it was still sick as and deserved a better score. I hope the love from the fans will bring you back next year.

 The judging was more or less random this year. Don't take too much notice...

 I feel your anger, but how the hell could it progress without slopestyle? Without tricks, riders would have to get up to the top, pedal to speed, and huck 300' drops to the finish line? Riders are so skilled now.... last time I was blown away was McGazzza flipping the canyon. I'd have to call that run perfection. It was steep, fast, BIG, and had slopestyle stunts... I'd love to see a teeter-toder that dumps Seminuk into a huge drop he'd probably flip. I just don't see how it could progress without tricks.

 @nuttypoolog: doesn’t have to be no tricks. The judges can bring it back to its roots by marking down a guy who built a lip specifically to do a SS trick that he can pull all day long provided he has the right jump. Mark down the spin to win crowd and they’ll have to rethink. The judges need to decide whether what’s been ridden is in the true spirit of freeride or whether they’ve just sculpted a slope style jump in order to bust a 720 double bar or whatever.

 @nuttypoolog: have to disagree with you mate. I do shit loads of ski, especially Freeride, if you look at the current Freeride WC you see guys with massive skills scaling down crazy mountain faces. Some will send some tricks, most won't but lines are gnarly and you would never see them digging for 2 weeks to dumb down the mountain in order to be able to send a trick instead of just a tech drop. That's what the rampage should be otherwise if the mountain if so modified its not freeride anymore, slopestyle/back-country freestyle at most.

 @Balgaroth: nailed it.

 @Balgaroth: Well, THAT I agree with. I wasn't saying the hill should look like a smooth, steep slope course. Just saying riders use the tricks to raise the bar.

 @Balgaroth: true, but snow is soft and apart from when you're messing about with a rocky ridge you can pretty much land upside down in the pow without choosing any particular spot and you'll be more or less ok. Different kettle of fish.

 @nuttypoolog: Exactly. I like that they cut back on the man made features, but you can't "remove" the tricks from a contest. If all else is equal in two runs, and 1 run has a back-flip over a jump that the second run just straight-aired, would you disqualify the back-flip run?

 Perhaps due credit (and points) should be given for tricks and technicality but BONUS points given for originality, gradient, general freeride gnarliness? Rather than downplay the slope tricks just promote OG freeride values.
I guess as has been said the trouble is the whole event including the judging has to meet the expectation of a wide audience and not just riders who’ll pick apart every run from a totally different perspective to the general public. I like Cams insight, maybe they should do an aftershow with him and the riders for the riders where they can discuss each other’s runs and the radness and details that we all want. Like An Extra Slice or It Takes Two

 Appeal to nature fallacy. Google it.

 I think in this case the word "natural" is a shorthand for the line that divides Slopestyle contests from Rampage. No need to get hung up on semantics. That line is pretty clearly defined by modifying the existing terrain with shovels and rakes vs. bringing in outside materials and constructing features. That may be difficult to put into written rules, but rider/builders know what the difference is, and they should be the ones to decide what happens as a group on site.

 Exactly, I don't think half these people even know they are arguing for ......they basically want a race with big 50ft drops

 You nailed it. The TV audience doesn't understand raw, gnarly lines. That is one of the things that killed tv coverage of downhill racing in the late 90's. The steep, gnarly sections just looked slow (having camera crews from ball sports didn't help either). Had a long conversation with Jurgen Beneke about this in 1999, "the US TV viewer understands (and wants) three things, high speed, big air and crashes.

Redbull is in it for the money, and the more tv viewers the more money.

Sad, as I prefer the sketchy big mountain lines and not seeing people kill themselves!

 Sad but true

 @nvranka: Look at the new video series with Cam trying to make it digestible...so smart and pushes even further away IMO.

 Devil's advocate here:

Is it the riders getting smoother or the lines being built smoother? Discuss.

 @orientdave: go ahead and tell Kyle Strait he's getting smooth and soft. Your funeral.

 @orientdave: I'd say both, riders are definitely getting smoother and going bigger, which in turn requires more work done to the jumps and landings. One pushes the other to evolve, the circle of shred!

 @dirtnapped: Do you understand what "Devil's advocate" means?

"In common parlance, the term devil's advocate describes someone who, given a certain point of view, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further. Despite being ancient, this idiomatic expression is one most popular present-day English idioms used to express the concept of arguing against something without actually being committed to the contrary view."

 It's the bikes.......@orientdave:

 @orientdave: holding two opposing opinions at the same time and still functioning is a sign of prime intelligence... as long as you realize that they actually are opposing opinions. I love this duality stuff... and then the necessity of singularity in order to move forward.

Truth. The truth is dead. We killed it. Cedric is cool.

 @WAKIdesigns: Schrodinger's cat was named 'Truth'.

 Couldn't agree more. I got to stand at some of the drops the year Zink spun the Oakley and I was shocked at how big and blind everything was. Let them have their big smooth landings. The risk versus monetary reward isn't even close to what it should be. We are fortunate these riders keep coming back year after year.

 @WAKIdesigns: Mais bien sur.

The singularity that is my family requires at least 2 if not 3 opposing opinions otherwise we get nowhere!! Usually that requires me to drag the singularity out of the mud of the opposing opinions, but we get there in the end!

The truth is out there, but it is still far behind its two siblings 'rumour' and 'ignorance', who got a head start apparently and are in no mood to slow down.

 Judging did not disappoint. Robbery was committed

 But only one super slopestyle comp on DH bikes in nine knights and the coverage is poor compared to Rampage. I want a trick format suited to 6 and 7inch travel bikes like old slopestyle. The big mountain guys won and it was an awesome show. Those who stepped outside their personal comfort zones were rewarded and those who might have ridden better but within what we know they can do were not. A bit unfair but those top ten runs were so close you need some way to separate them.

 Last 3 years its felt like someone was going to die...I kinda hate it honestly...the dudes just don't seem that amped...its always windy somehow and seems like the risk is too high to be worth it. I don't really care who wins...I just hope nobody gets hurt

 @MikeyMT: so true. FEST is the new rampage

 @MikeyMT: truth

 @MikeyMT: This. I hate seeing guys crash hard and rag doll down the hill. I'll probably watch the winning runs after the event. But I can't watch the live stream, I don't want to see another crash like Aggy's last year.

 Agree completely, there's only so large/gnarly of shit you can feasibly hit with a reasonable chance of success. I love seeing these riders pushing the boundaries of the sport, after all that is what top level competition is all about. But I really don't want to see someone die

 He always been saying the same things about rampage, and he is not the only one. Props to him to talk about doping, as an insider. Another road rider- who was disqualified for doping- ended up writing a book about doping, this is in the early 2000's, and he explain everything about motors and motors in wheels. He was labeled as a liar etc etc... 15 years after, it must be clear to everyone who follows road racing why Froome and team sky in particular, often change bikes before the mountains. CG could care less to build YouTube viewers as he makes plenty of money with his profession outside mtbking. He has everything to loose doing this, including denied access to events and dropped sponsors. He does it because he wants to speak out.

 Yeah I don't think Cedric is the kind of guy to look at a longterm strategy mate

 @dirtologist: His faux-MTV Cribs video of his house: "Why do you think I have my bed at such an odd height?"

 @RedRedRe: This, he has always been a straight shooter, and believed in the events as they were created i.e. not modified later due to trends - sush as slopestyles influence on Rampage etc.

I think he is valid, and its lame to make it a "Trick-off" vs. a who has the bigger Balls to do some crazy FREERIDE lines!

 @RedRedRe: Sorry, what?

"Froome and team sky in particular, often change bikes before the mountains".

Really?
I watched the TDF and Giro this year, and if they ever did that, I missed it.
Contador used to change bikes sometimes, but even if he or they did, are you suggesting they are mechanical doping in that way? If so, you really need evidence to say that.

 @orientdave: I recall watching previous TDF's where in the individual time trials that had a hilly section, some riders, not all, and from differing teams, would change bikes at the bottom of the hill, then back onto the original TT bike at the top. The two bikes were discernibly different, i.e. the TT bike being full aero, big knee-crusher gears, and the hill bike being your standard triple triangle with reasonable gears.

Changing of bikes before the hill climbs does still occur, but I doubt that the change in bikes is to one that is mechanically doped, other than the hill bike has some easier gears and is much likely lighter all around.

Mechanical doping is much easier to detect than human doping, and now that the UCI has had their pants pulled down at the CX world champs over the mechanically doped bike there, they are looking out for them in earnest. All it takes is a heat sensor, and failing that, you pull the seat post out. Easy to check versus someone that is blood doping back at the team hotel and putting oxygenated blood back into their system to recover faster.

 @orientdave: do you watch all stages start to end?
If you watch on awful Eurosport, they are not going to mention bike changes, especially because Eurosport is on the Sky TV network/payroll.

What evidence do I need to prove? If you have been following cycling for a long time it is pretty obvious who has extra "boost", many details give it away i.e. the line some team members take on uphill steep ramps, change the bike and from having a bad day you catch people 1 min in front of you etc... It is mainly one team with 8-10 times the budget of any other team.

 Really ?

It's not some random dude you are talking about.
The guy has been there, done that (Rampage and EWS).
He his 100% legit and has the right to express a point of view without douchebags suggesting manipulation to get more views.
Plus, as far as I can see he doesn't even monetize his Youtube channel.
On the other hands, random guys making stupid statements like yours are definitely out of line.

 @RedRedRe:
"What evidence do I need to prove?".

Nothing at all if you don't mind not being taken seriously.

 Yeah, i heard a lot of "we used too"s" in that video too. Well, we used travel around by horse and buggy too. And later on, ride bicycles without helmets. I don't see or hear anyone sitting around, pining for those days. its called progression, cant stop it. Embrace it and give props to PAST and presents riders/competitors/athletes or don't watch it. JMO

 @flyr: Thanks... true that!

 not even remotely close.

 I was going to agree, but I went on the FMB World Tour website and it looks like Rampage hasn't been a part of the tour since 2015. So it seems to be more of an independent event (similar to Hardline), but it may take a bit more time for it to break away from the recent slopestyle format.

 I forgot to add, that the bump was shaped into a lip to impress the Judges. Natural means no shovels Cedric. We know you did Rampage long ago, now let these kids progress their sport! haha

 youre right...pretty soon we'll be talking about the sick burnout by ebikers instead the crankworx whip offs...

 @ledude: exactly! And Redbull Rampage nowadays is more about getting to the bottom safe as much as possible and not going head over heels like they used to...

which l think is a good thing.

I think CC is probably thinking 2015 was the last best year when Rogatkin went over the cliff and got back up to finish the run. That was pretty GNAR.... definitely had some old Rampage in it!

 He doesn't say it's not rad or cool anymore.
He says it's not big mountain freeride anymore; it's more like slopestyle in the wild.

but one has to appreciate freeride, in order to understand the point of view.

 @Spadluv: it's mountain biking...nothing more, nothing less.

 @giantcop: It's another debate if slopestyle is really mountain biking