Charge Bikes - An interview with Ash Clark
Charge Bikes have been well known in the UK for a number of years, as a brand not afraid to be constrained to normopathy. Creating mountain, commuter and road bikes with their own twist. Their tarmac biased bikes are well accepted by civilians who want something that will look cool against the wall of a pub mid-commute in a city traffic, rather than the speed of a Tour de France winning machine. Bold colours and graphics instead of acronyms and industry jargon. Dabbling in four cross and adventure bikes in the past, Charge have specified their off-road focus to what they call 'good old mountain bikes.' A bike for the Sunday warrior, the evening summer shredder or a trail centre cruiser. With the advent of 27.5+ wheels and tires, Charge have gone all in, dropping their 26" and 29" bikes and made their entire range roll on this new 'standard.' A bold move which will surely garner criticism, I wanted to know more about how they came to this, so I visited the factory recently in North Somerset, England. An interesting, coffee fuelled chat ensued with product manager Ash Clarke and what he had to say about moving their entire mountain bike range to 27.5+ wheels.
So you guys have thrown yourselves in to 27.5+ bikes for 2016?
 | Yes, we have fully committed to it. We did 26" when that was all the rage and then we went in to 29", albeit a little later than a lot of the other brands. We brought some slightly new geometry to the 29", we were going for a longer rear centre, and a higher bottom bracket to make the bike feel correct when you sat on it, whereas a lot of brands were obsessed with getting a low bottom bracket and trying to keep the bike as low as possible to compensate for the taller wheel, so we had a different angle on the 29er - which paid off pretty well for us. Then we created our fat bike, a 4" tyre bike. So we have really been playing around with wheel sizes for a long time and really saw the benefit of fat bikes on sand and snow, but there were downsides too when they weren't used in the correct play area. Then 27.5" came along from many other brands and we messed around with some prototype cross country bikes, but it wasn't really bringing anything new to the table. We thought the 29er was better, it was faster and felt nicer. Coming off the back of working on the fat bikes I wanted to find a large diameter tire that felt more like a mountain bike, and was more viable for a mountain bike. The fat bike is an enthusiast product. I started messing around with 3 1/4" tires which were too big and had a lot of the characteristics of a fat tire, then we tried 3" and eventually 2.8" with the WTB Trailblazer tire. That's when it really started to ride like a normal bike, and look like a normal bike. |
How long ago did you start the project?
| Realistically it was March 2014. I was at the Taipei show and we were buying a lot of tires there. A few brands mentioned big 3" tires coming out. That got me thinking about it. Originally I wanted all three models to have the same outside diameter tire. The fat bike had a 29" outer diameter, despite the 26" rim. I wanted to do a 27.5+ with that same outside diameter, as a 29" bike. All the same outside diameter, but their different sizes (Widths) and uses, thin, fatter and fat. That's where all this started. By June we had more stuff to play with and last August I was riding a bike around which was very close to what we have here today. |
What kind of rider are these bikes designed for?
| Anybody who rides general mountain bike stuff. If you're looking for a specific trail centre bike or something really slack with a dropper post and huge 800mm bars, it's probably not for you. I think it's for people who get out on a Sunday with their mates, all day, all year round. People who go for a rip after work for a few hours in the summer. It really is good enough to replace your general mountain and XC bike. |
For the person you have just described, what advantages will they find?
| Well, assuming they've already gone from a 26" to 29" bike the obvious benefit of that is speed, the bike rolls a lot faster, and is generally faster all round than a 26". What they will find with this bike is a huge improvement and increase in grip. These tires just have so much more grip then anything else out there at the moment really and that makes for a faster bike. The external diameter is about 14mm smaller than a 29er with a 2.25" tire. But because there's so much more grip available you can go faster, brake harder and climbing up loose technical climbs is just much easier. The other major benefit is from the volume of the tire and the width of the rim, it acts like a huge cushion. I can't speak for full suspension plus bikes but on a hardtail it just makes it a lot more comfortable, but just as fast as the 29er. Just masses of grip! |
Safer for your average rider?
| Yeah I think so, with the grip and the cushioning it's certainly safer on our fully rigid bikes. It gives you that small amount of suspension so that you're not getting buckaroo'd everywhere. The tire is big enough to actually give you suspension, 15-20mm of travel effectively. It will really be of benefit to somebody riding a rigid bike. |
Have you just stuffed bigger tires in to a 29" frame?
| No we haven't! When the first prototype idea of this bike was built, we designed it around this wheel size. Like I mentioned earlier the tire is 14mm smaller than a 29", which gives me 7mm each side of the wheel. It would have been a bad decision not to make the best of that. Geometry keeps getting shorter at the back and longer at the front, I'm going to take 7mm where I can! The other thing to change that has really helped out are 1X systems. No front derailleur means no issues with tire rub on front derailleurs or anything like that. So we really went to town on the geometry and worked out what we would like to ride. We shortened the back end by 15mm compared to the old 29er, made the front end 10mm longer and slackened the head angle off by a degree to 70. So it's much more contemporary, but not too aggressive. It is still a decent climber and descender, you can still pick the front end up over roots and things. All these new bikes have frames built specifically around the new wheel size. |
So they're 1X only?
| Well, Shimano do have new front derailleurs that are spaced out a little more and are slimmer so that the tire won't rub on the clamp or cage. You could run a front derailleur if you wish but I've been riding 1x10 all winter with a 30t chainring up front and not had any issues with it. I'm not the fastest guy in the world, but I get up all the climbs with those gears. I think that for the type of bike that this is, a play bike for going everywhere and not necessarily racing, I think 1X is the answer really. Lighter, cheaper, simpler and less levers to worry about. |
And you haven't gone for a Boost 148 rear hub??
| No, for a couple of reasons. Boost was originally developed for getting the rear centre shorter on 29ers without the tire hitting the chainstays. The spacing for a Boost hub is 148mm which is pretty wide, which in itself brings issues with heel clearance, especially with a really short chainstay. But also, Boost components start at the top and trickle down. They haven't come down low enough to become price point favourable for entry level bikes. So if I was to use Boost on these bikes the price would increase and I don't really see the benefit to the end consumer at the moment if we can use standard, or what was standard hub spacing. The other reason is the leverage on the hub. We use a 135mm hub and don't have any heel clearance issues, and it means we don't need a bolt-thru frame, making the frame slightly lighter, less expensive and more in-keeping with what people perceive as a 'normal' mountain bike. The tires don't look massive, the frame isn't really overbuilt and wide, and also the price points are favourable. Our entry level geared bike is 850 GBP, with the Boost it would be more like 1300! We want people to try, and buy these bikes, so with something that is completely different to what they are used to using, they don't want to spend 2000 on something that is new and unproven. If they can buy our entry level Cooker for 750 GBP it's not really a lot of cash to spend on a bike. |
What do you think the downsides of this are versus a 29er?
| Well, price probably. There's only a few options of tires and rims at the moment, you will have to run a Boost fork in order to get clearance. So that's one downside, obviously there's some weight in there, certainly heavier than an average 29" x 2.25" tire and a 19mm rim. Slightly heavier, but not as heavy as you might think. But the weight is taken out of it by the way they roll so well and have so much grip, it negates the weight issue. We're not saying that this is the next big thing, we're just saying that for our market and our customers that this will give you benefits of different wheel sizes and makes it a lot more fun. People are pissed off with 29 vs 26 vs 27.5 vs this vs that. People are getting rightly annoyed about it, and so far for the right reasons. So far, a lot of the switches haven't brought much to the table, but I think this really does have benefits that get to the end consumer this time rather than an industry driven change. This really is something that can be applied to the ley-man. Tires are the main reason why these bikes are now possible. I think WTB have had a real drive in the last few years with product. The Vigilante tire is amazing and I use that on my full suspension bike. I think this Trailblazer tire, even though it looks a lot less aggressive than some of the alternatives out there, or certainly what people are used to riding. I think because the tire and the rim were designed to work together is one of the reasons it works so well. The characteristic of the tire when you're riding it and the rim working together just seem to make sense. I think due to the shape of the tire, when you're leaning over in a turn means all the flat tread of the tire will be in contact with the ground, I think they have hit the nail on the head. The ridge down the centre of the tire is a really important feature that helps it roll nice and fast and also steer well. I can't feel any self steer with it, which a lot of larger tires suffer with, when the tire wants to roll itself to one side. That's why road motorcycles don't have large tires on the front, they're always narrower. The 'suspension feel' from the tire is a real linear feel then it gets really progressive at the end, but it's confidence building. When you have ridden it for a long period of time, you really get to know how the tire handles and I think that's important for somebody riding hardtails or rigid bikes. A lot of people buy our bikes in the city, where they want bigger tires than a road bike because the roads are so rough and want to be able to bump up curbs to get off the road. Maybe this could be the next 'Chelsea Tractor' of the bike world, like somebody driving a Land Rover Defender around Knightsbridge ha ha, I like the romanticism of that really but whether it will translate or not I don't know! People give you so much crap when you show them something new. Two years ago we were really pushing the adventure lifestyle of mountain biking. Our message was that these are adventure bikes, not race bikes. Put a trailer on the back and go bivvy somewhere, take your fishing gear out into the wild. People said we were crazy and nobody does that on a bike. Whereas now, two years later, these bikes are even more specific with regards to being adventure bikes, and the last Shimano XT presentation even included the tagline 'adventure.' Our direction came from people like Charlie and Ewan doing the Long Way round series with David Beckham riding through a jungle on a Triumph, that kind of thing. It's all about a lifestyle of mountain biking rather than being the first around a course and who had the better components. We wanted to get back to the core of having fun, we used to ride 20 years ago and I just had a GT Outpost. If a mate asked me to go downhilling, I would take the Outpost. If I went on a road ride - the Outpost. Jumping off the wall at Swanage seafront, you did it on the Outpost! |
So there you have it straight from the horse's mouth. Charge Cooker Midi bike will be available in the Autumn, and start at $1,099 USD / £650 GBP and rise to $4499 for the titanium framed Cooker 5 chargebikes.com
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Out of interest ive got a cromo Blender frame (and Chris King cromo) headset for sale.... drop us an email and ill give you the details.
I would choose these bikes any day over the ugly glow-in-the-dark parrot bikes like Cube etc. These bikes actually look good and fun. Seems like it's not your typical xc / all mountain bike designed for roadies who want a second bike.
I feel like their mindset has not changed. Only they brought that same style they had to a different category of mtb.
I do understand though how you miss the old frames.
"We're not saying that this is the next big thing, we're just saying that for our market and our customers that this will give you benefits of different wheel sizes and makes it a lot more fun."
This right here is what you are doing wrong, Charge. You are deciding what your customers should be riding. That is not the way to f*cking do it. Again, back to a few years ago- You had a 24" DJ bike, 26" 4x bike, 26" hardtail and a 29" hardtail in your lineup.
Something for everyone.
CHOICE for everyone.
f*ck off with this "this is what we like riding so everyone else should like it too" attitude, It's tiring. Even in the sense of the business side of things- You are cutting off a huge portion of the market by offering no choice. Where is the sense in that?
And from the view of someone in the industry who for many years pushed the shops I have worked in for many years to sell Charge bikes because they were something a little different. How can I do that now? You have boxed yourself into a corner with a product no different to many bikes that the industry are releasing (Spec Fuze, Trek Stache for example, granted a little more expensive but the low price options will follow).
The whole business direction is just silly. Your USP was being out there and a little quirky, now you just look like you are jumping on trends, desperately trying to grab some money.
Sorry for the rants, but I feel they are justified.
Many of these companies are run by an older generation and they don't want to take risks.
Eventually this whole trend bubble will burst.
There's no way that we can go every year with new trends. People don't have that kind of money
The 'average joe' does not want or understand the need for 650+ tyres.
"yes sir, they roll slower and are heavier, but they are faster when you get rad!!!" Is not a good way to sell a bike to your average consumer.
Not sure if I'm just too cynical to believe all this or if it's all some nefarious scheme cooked up by bike companies to make keyboard warrior spend their money
basically a chairlift-less version of Whistler, and here in the UK generally some hills rather than proper mountains, unless in Wales / Scotland
••••••••> Your head
the core of why we ride is to have fun. a company trying to get more people out at a decent price point to just have fun is AWESOME!
You buy some pretty rad full sus used bikes $1000-1500...why would anyone ever buy one of these?
www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1739059
just a few that popped up in a 5 seconds search....
You get right outta town.
Well, here's a used Cooker for 500, so therefore, they're not overpriced?
www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1798827
Personally I'd love one of these 27.5+ bikes to ride local xc loops and stuff. I'd much rather have something a bit different and weird and fun than a flat out xc bike.
I do think it's part of another marketing ploy but I'm considering a second bike for local rides just lads smashing some miles and doing some skids and I like the idea of these more than any carbon 29er.
I think what people don't get is that these aren't meant to replace the ultimate machines that enduro bikes have become, just a bit of a different take on the 29er, which is very popular with Average Joe.
End of essay
As an enthusiastic but extremely amateur rider this sounds perfect!!! the thinking behind it is also sound, when I was looking for a new bike earlier in the year it was so hard to compare bikes and geometry and suspension and on and on. I would have gone for one of these..... I ended up with a Commencal Meta HT essential plus - love the bike but some of the components are cheap and the geometry took a while to get used too!!!!
To be able to buy one bike that you can have a go at doing everything, knowing it wont break and the components are good (not read the specs) sounds like a no brainer.
2cents
You know,that sticky stuff that's everywhere in UK,most of the time?
It sure isn't my problem,but it get's me thinking about a british brand coming out with +size wheels...
It's 14 mm - more than 1/2 inch - smaller than a 29x2.25 tire. Put on a larger tire like a HRII 29x2.35 and the difference would be 3/4 of an inch.
That's halfway between most 27.5 and 29 tires. It's even a bit less with the big diameter Conti TK 2.4
BTW, bikemag.com has posted a really good comparison of the same Scott bike in 27.5 and 27.5+
For fun factor - among other areas - the 'normal' 27.5 was the clear winner.
The WTB Bridger 3.0 is a totally different animal on the other hand, in that its 3.0 at the tread AND casing, and thus won't fit regular 29ers. Same goes with tires from Specialized and Vee Rubber and Panaracer. Maxxis and Kenda have tires also as does Schwalbe.