Specialized had all three versions of the new Stumpjumper on hand at the Sea Otter Classic, so we took the opportunity to chat with Steve Saletnik, a product manager at Specialized, about the new models.
threaded bb bottle cage perfect internal routing (front to back one push) all wheelsizes short or long travel progressive or conservative geometry no more proprietary shit clever solutions for ppl who don't want to carry a backpack
Specialized have really hit the nail on the head with this one.
@FrozenTreads56: Why wouldn't it? Get the 27.5 model, get a longer shock and put in a longer bottom out bumper and get a longer travel fork and it should work nicely with 26", shouldn't it?
@blkmrktrider156: haha except their 'lifetime on frame' doesn't include the chain or seat stays, as they're not part of the frame according to Specialized. I got one year out of mine and 2 months out of the replacement because Jason doesn't understand stress.
From my experience with several pair, Roval wheels are lame if you ride hard or weigh more than 170lbs. I'd love to see the ditch Roval and go the Santa Cruz route with traditional wheels. That said, I am happy to see the host of other new changes such as the 160mm dropper. Next up is for them to cut prices and go direct sales so they'll be able to maintain their market share against the impending direct sales domination...
@Aprilfisheye: Roval hubs have not been dt swiss hubs for years. And the rims appear to made out of butter, I need to retrue mine almost everytime I ride roots/rocks/drops. Unfortunately I is broke and so stuck with em.
@Aprilfisheye: @Aprilfisheye: You only got the DT Swiss hubs on expert builds and above (and even then, you only got pawls and not the star ratchet on the expert). The lower models were the absolute rubbish hi lo hubs.
Actually, I think you may only get DT Swiss on the S Works now.
@ryan83: any wheelbuilder will tell you that good part of their costumers are roval wheelset owners. Specliazed underbuild the wheels (with shorter spokes among other things) to meet a lower weight on paper. Don’t expect anything from specialized to be durable. It is their business model. If things are durable, they sell less. In countries like France, Italy, Spain, where people ride much more than everywhere else, most stores stopped carrying them because A) people who had one, will not buy another, B) stores are forced to spend thousands on specialized inventory (saddle bags tires etc) that nobody wants. Trek is taking over their place. Better bikes anyhow. Not a trek fan myself.
Historically the big S has sacrificed durability for weight savings on tons of models. They've gotten wiser and stopped speccing control casings on trail/AM bikes (thank you) but the Roval wheels I've been on tend to not hold up (especially the rear) under hard riding.
@WasatchEnduro: agreed. My roval wheels have held up this far, but I know that they might take a dump on me sometime.
My issue was more with him saying "don't expect anything from specialized to be durable"... or "France, Italy, Spain, where people ride much more than everywhere else". There are hard riding people all over the world, let's be real.
@RedRedRe: Can you upload spreadsheets of your claims? Show statistics, sales data, customer satisfaction surveys. Also provide quarterly breakdown of Trek/Specialized profits with regional separation (CE, USA, LA, Asia). Please provide at least 500 customer data points, so that we can extrapolate satisfaction indices and peg them to sales data.
Otherwise this is just internet anecdotes with no supporting claims whatsoever.
@singletrackslayer: I am not a marketer (like Specialized). Don't make spreedsheets. Since you seem to sell/work/be affiliated with Specialized, maybe you can provide some warranty data?
I'll give you a basic round up of what happens outside your turf... Specialized are bought by three category of people.... The newbies who don't know any better and buy the bike from a nearby shop. The aging roadies who don't know any better and buy the high end bikes from their local shop. The people who don't care much and they think it is a good deal since they are always on sale.
I can tell you than almost all of the good shops that used to sell Specialized in Europe, now they sell Trek, Santacruz, Scott, Cube etc. and they dropped Specialized. Trek/Bontrager replaced Specialized as average joe brand.
@Timroo1: yeah, every single thing I have had from Specialized failed like it was made of cartboard. Warranty on things other than bikes is easy, but they still give you the same crap. I expect a jacket to last more than three months? Same issue with other people I know.
Go to Europe in those country I listed, maybe I have to specify South of France, and have an idea of how many more people ride and race.
Specialized does one thing very well, the helmets. For sure better than Giro and Poc.
@TheRaven: The 2018 and 2019 Expert models that came with carbon rims did not have dt swiss hubs. They had specialized hilo hubs. The 2018 pro had a dt 350 rear hub. The 18 and 19 s-works are dt star ratchet internals. But the last expert to come with dt internals was the 18 fact 11 expert that had aluminum rims and the 17 experts and they were both 3 pawl not star ratcher
@RedRedRe: in SA Spaz sell via concept stores. Their service and warranty response is top drawer. I cracked a 2011 S works frame and they did a part warranty replacement and I kept the parts from the cracked frame. So far the new ali frame has shown no durability issues and the performance is great. I agree that the wheels are weak especially out back but then again look at what one WC dh weekend does to the most expensive rims. The Epic S Works was by far the most popular and winning bike on the Cape Epi. I reckon your perspective is rather narrow...
@striveCF15: yeah that's somewhat annoying if you want the smaller wheels but when i last spoke to one of the main distributors in the Vienna region they said that nobody (like a handful a year) chooses 27.5 over 29 here. so from a sellers point of view i do understand.
I’ve had several specialized and liked all of them. No problem with the frames at all. They are higher then some brands but I’d say it’s worth if if you are someone who’ll keep a bike for several years.
similar emotions. they continue to perplex me when I see they stole TITS. who does that? what did TITS do to you? other than give you a safe place to route your cable? what would you do big s if you had your own TITS and someome routed their cable in them? .... yeah, hurts... don't it?
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@TheR: Plain color will always be timeless quite simply because some finishes (anodizing, powdercoating) don't lend themselves for complex paintjobs. You can always do transfers but doing nothing besides the application of your logo has always been an obvious choice. Since I've been riding mountainbikes, there have always been frames with a plain anodizing or powdercoat. And because it is something that's been done over so many years, it makes it timeless.
@TheR: Maybe the colors themselves, but simplicity is timeless. If anything, the sus layout and frame design will date the frame moreso than the paint.
@mikekazimer: That wasn't nice. There are people who don't read the entire PB website cover to back so he could have missed it.
@Lookinforit: Yes, there have been a couple of articles last week. There has been one article describing the differences between the three "types" (two based on the same frame geometry, EVO is longer and slacker). There is no Stumpjumper hardtail anymore. The new Stumpjumper replaces the old one and the Camber models.
@mikekazimer: Yeah, it is broken, I know. Too much sarcasm for today. I'm all love now. I'll have it fixed asap before I venture on the big bad internet again!
@bohns1: I think you might be on to something here. But even black goes in and out of various degrees of popularity. It was the hot color for cars when I was in high school, but now not nearly as much. And matte black wasn’t as popular, say 20 years ago, as it has been the last few years.
@bohns1: Why wouldn't it? It has a steep seat angle like the regular Stumpjumper coupled with longer chainstays and a longer reach. If anything it should climb better than the regular model!
@SintraFreeride: personally I think the st will be the best climber... I remember the long stays on my 14 stumpy and hated them.. Couldn't manual for shit.. Thing was like a semi truck.. Now on my shorter stayed ride they have got easier to get in to. I like nimble bikes.. I'll still toss a leg over the evo tho to try it... We'll see
@bohns1: well...thats personal preference I would not care about...I rather have a bike that stays on course at high velocity! Also personal preference
@bohns1: The ST will climb well due to the shorter travel and lighter weight but the EVO will have more traction (longer chainstays) and suffer less from wheelying due to the longer front centre. Short chainstays will make it easier to manual for sure but are less stable and provide less traction.
@jclnv: on a fuel ex 9.9 now and manuals are easier for me on a 29 than 650..bit harder to get into.. But easier to hold... The st can be way lighter than 30lb.. Proper components /get rid of the tubes and swap my carbon hoops..
@bohns1: The ST shares the same frame as the standard Stumpy. It's way overbuilt for a 120mm bike. Even the S-Works weighs 28lbs. A Scott Genius 700 Tuned weighs under 27lbs and is a 150mm bike with proper geo/sizing.
Those Stumpy frames are boat anchors. Keep your Fuel.
@jclnv: Definitely keeping it for this season. But my fuel isn't way lighter than 28lb and it's the 9.9.. Once u go minions even with carbon hoops, dropper, cb enduro pedals it's damn close on a 21.5 frame. Either way going to see what Yeti does this season and or if yt really vamps the Jeffsy.
@bohns1: Speak of the Jeffsy, the geo is a bit dated cf the 29 Capra. Hopefully they do update it but think it may be next year so they can sell a few 29 Capras.
@COnovicerider: That's makes no sense. The height person but one weighs 110lbs and the other is 265lbs would most likely ride the same bike then but the heavier person will break it assuming how hard they both ride.
I'm 6' 5" 195 lbs and look at the numbers and go sit on one or demo before purchase.
There are so many factors they can only afford to manufacture what makes money for them.
Get yourself a Pole or a Nicolai and you will be getting a bike that fits you like a glove. The other pluses are they climb walls and descend with so much confidence!
I rode one last Sunday. Great ride! The bike cornered really well, plowed through rocks and climbed well also. It was hard to tell if the sidearm actually stiffened the frame in an hour ride but my first impression was really good. I think the SSS is on the money with these new stumpers!
I make sure to say "hopping the bottom portion of a dead tree" in when telling stories for fear of being sued. Too soon? Kidding. The new bikes look rad. Would love to try one. Nice to see some affordable options also with similar progressive geometry and no more proprietary BS.
"connect your hands and feet to your bike" ?!?! Of all the bizarre half baked marketing mumbo jumbo i've heard over my long 20 years affair with the biking industry - this sentence wins.
Thanks for that specialized, until today i really had a hard time properly placing my hands and feet on your bikes.
They're sort of testing the waters with the EVO model - I'm sure they wanted to gauge the reception first rather than committing to opening another carbon mold.
Same reason that people are dumping carbon cranks for Ti cranks. We have to get rid of what we have now so we can over pay for something else or the mtn bike companies would die.
@Lagr1980: As M. Cyrus once said, "can't stop, won't stop". Because there are struggling bike builders in already low cost locations (Like Santa Cruz, CA) I would feel bad if I didn't continue to buy the next big overpriced bike product that just came out. They have jobs too!
@mungbean: I don't know how many guys will get how hilarious that joke is...but for those of us who were in that particular comment thread on that day, its gold.
It looked like this would be an issue so when I saw one in the shop I shifted it into the smallest sprocket and sure enough the chain was rubbing on the ribbed-for-your-pleasure chainstay protector. Not sure that really means anything tho but I think ideally it wouldn’t contact anything. Trim down the rib closest to the chain ring maybe?
the irony of how Specialized would sue everyone and everything with anything close to something they've branded and yet they release this after the growing popularity of the Orbea frame design that has the similar "arm" next to the rear shock.
Can someone explain to me Fox Rhythm series? are they the very bottom end fox or some OEM option? I been looking at buying the new EVO, but the fork has be reconsidering.
I like how the had the old stumpjumper and the new one (painted the same color) at the stand. Facing each other. "Yeah, we made the first mountain bike".... Everybody knows that is bs... But I am sure not many people know they had the first "cycling law suit" against them from stealing other people idea. BTW the first stumpjumper was a total POS with the wrong fork... as they were given longer forks by "mistake" by you know who... In 2018 you must be getting an insane deal or must be green behind the ears to buy one of these...
R cubed -> what are u on about? And what do you ride? I’ll bet you’re afraid to ride this bike because you might like it. Then your righteous indignation self identity would dissolve.
@WasatchEnduro: i ride/rode all bikes i can get an hold of. Rentasl or demos. Specialized are good bikes for beginners. That said, these are notorious for cracking at the rear triangle. Warranty is for the frame. “Frame” according to specialized lawyers is just the front triangle. Most people on their bikes are begginers anyhow. I have had my share of bad experience with them.
Sorry to hear it. My enduros and stumpys have held up well, but I've still got less than a year on my current one, though it is getting a proper beat down. I have heard of some chain/seatstay issues in the past, not sure of any with the last stumpy redesign (my16-1 . Not cool if the big S isn't covering rear triangle issues.
And yes, by default plenty of beginners will gravitate to the big brands. In the past the main weaknesses I've found for riding the stock setups hard are the soft/flexy rear wheel and the subpar rear shocks. The first two upgrades I made were a carbon rear wheel and Topaz rear shock.
Hey, our new bike has ton of chain slap because our industrial designers/engineers suck. No bro, this massive rubber thing will solve all of your problems. Its like a rubber chain guide when you run in the lower 4 gears.
Wow, they really tried hard to stop being hated Somehow they managed to build a better bike without all this proprietary sh*t ... Pitty that they forgot to make enough room for a dropper post in the seatpost ... It really looks ridiculous when you have a dropper which sticks out for like 10cm.
bottle cage
perfect internal routing (front to back one push)
all wheelsizes
short or long travel
progressive or conservative geometry
no more proprietary shit
clever solutions for ppl who don't want to carry a backpack
Specialized have really hit the nail on the head with this one.
Also roval hubs = dt swiss hubs.
But yeah, agreed, Roval is not exactly the dream.
Actually, I think you may only get DT Swiss on the S Works now.
Specliazed underbuild the wheels (with shorter spokes among other things) to meet a lower weight on paper.
Don’t expect anything from specialized to be durable. It is their business model. If things are durable, they sell less.
In countries like France, Italy, Spain, where people ride much more than everywhere else, most stores stopped carrying them because A) people who had one, will not buy another, B) stores are forced to spend thousands on specialized inventory (saddle bags tires etc) that nobody wants. Trek is taking over their place. Better bikes anyhow. Not a trek fan myself.
But there's still a lot right about what he said.
Historically the big S has sacrificed durability for weight savings on tons of models. They've gotten wiser and stopped speccing control casings on trail/AM bikes (thank you) but the Roval wheels I've been on tend to not hold up (especially the rear) under hard riding.
My issue was more with him saying "don't expect anything from specialized to be durable"... or "France, Italy, Spain, where people ride much more than everywhere else". There are hard riding people all over the world, let's be real.
For sure. And my frames have been fine, if a little flexy in the rear at times (2xEnduro, 2xStumpy).
Remarkably the 24h Roval front wheel has held up very well, much better than the 28 rear, though I switched to carbon f/r (non Roval).
And overall i really like their line of (grid) tires.
Otherwise this is just internet anecdotes with no supporting claims whatsoever.
#fakenews
I am not a marketer (like Specialized). Don't make spreedsheets. Since you seem to sell/work/be affiliated with Specialized, maybe you can provide some warranty data?
I'll give you a basic round up of what happens outside your turf...
Specialized are bought by three category of people....
The newbies who don't know any better and buy the bike from a nearby shop.
The aging roadies who don't know any better and buy the high end bikes from their local shop.
The people who don't care much and they think it is a good deal since they are always on sale.
I can tell you than almost all of the good shops that used to sell Specialized in Europe, now they sell Trek, Santacruz, Scott, Cube etc. and they dropped Specialized. Trek/Bontrager replaced Specialized as average joe brand.
Warranty on things other than bikes is easy, but they still give you the same crap.
I expect a jacket to last more than three months?
Same issue with other people I know.
Go to Europe in those country I listed, maybe I have to specify South of France, and have an idea of how many more people ride and race.
Specialized does one thing very well, the helmets. For sure better than Giro and Poc.
As for the rims, they are nothing special.
You prove that what I write is not true. Fanboys United.
I guess we will just accept your infinite knowledge of mountain biking participation rates worldwide though.
And if your bikes are "failing like cardboard", maybe stop riding like a hack? Best of luck!
@Lookinforit: Yes, there have been a couple of articles last week. There has been one article describing the differences between the three "types" (two based on the same frame geometry, EVO is longer and slacker). There is no Stumpjumper hardtail anymore. The new Stumpjumper replaces the old one and the Camber models.
Steeper seat angle and longer rear centre.
If you prioritize manualing over handling you should be on a 650b bike with the shortest rear centre and highest BB possible.
Nimble just means sketchy at speed.
Those Stumpy frames are boat anchors. Keep your Fuel.
Add about 3/4" lb per size.
Graves Stumpjumper is heavier than Keenes Enduro! I think that full length internal cable routing isn't light.
I'm 6' 5" 195 lbs and look at the numbers and go sit on one or demo before purchase.
There are so many factors they can only afford to manufacture what makes money for them.
Thanks for that specialized, until today i really had a hard time properly placing my hands and feet on your bikes.
I been looking at buying the new EVO, but the fork has be reconsidering.
*comments about cable routing*
*comments about slight number tweaks*
Pretty solid direction
access4bikes.com/giveaway
Winner chosen on May 26.
"Yeah, we made the first mountain bike"....
Everybody knows that is bs...
But I am sure not many people know they had the first "cycling law suit" against them from stealing other people idea.
BTW the first stumpjumper was a total POS with the wrong fork... as they were given longer forks by "mistake" by you know who...
In 2018 you must be getting an insane deal or must be green behind the ears to buy one of these...
Pick your favorite brand and be a d#ck about it.
Sorry to hear it. My enduros and stumpys have held up well, but I've still got less than a year on my current one, though it is getting a proper beat down. I have heard of some chain/seatstay issues in the past, not sure of any with the last stumpy redesign (my16-1 . Not cool if the big S isn't covering rear triangle issues.
And yes, by default plenty of beginners will gravitate to the big brands. In the past the main weaknesses I've found for riding the stock setups hard are the soft/flexy rear wheel and the subpar rear shocks. The first two upgrades I made were a carbon rear wheel and Topaz rear shock.