Chris Cocalis Chats About Pivot's Prototype DH Bike

Jun 9, 2023
by Matt Beer  
Photos Nick Bentley

Although it's been spotted through testing in New Zealand over the off-season, Pivot Cycles has fully let the cat out of the bag with the perplexing looks of their latest prototype carbon downhill bike. Behind all of the hardware lies Dave Weagles' DW6 linkage design, but this one puts a clever spin on traditional high-pivots. Our photographer and detective on site caught up with Pivot Cycles to get all of the nitty-gritty details from Pivot Cycles' owner, Chris Cocalis.

Photos Nick Bentley

Photos Nick Bentley
Photos Nick Bentley
The earlier proto has adjustable chainstay lengths and a less refined idler chainguide.

Photos Nick Bentley
From this angle you can see the adjustable leverage rate, a built-in skid plate. The team has been testing air and coil Fox shocks.

The prototype design uses two separate chains that turn around the main, high-pivot on large idler wheels. The chain drive in front feeds to the cassette, while another placed further inboard wraps around the chain ring. Another attribute to the DWF6 design is its ability to heavily reduce pedal kickback.

Since this frame design combines DW6 six-bar suspension and a high-pivot, the rear triangle actually has a small amount of vertical flex built-in. Cocalis and Weagle joked about calling the system DW5, as another take on the suspension theory, and may settle on DWF6, with the "F" standing for the flex factor.

There are actually two prototypes at Lenzerheide this weekend that Bernard Kerr has been swapping back and forth between. The first version has an adjustable chainstay length while the second proto has refined geometry, 3D-printed idler guides, and heavily machined drivetrain parts from Wolf Tooth that are said to be "nearly frictionless".

Photos Nick Bentley

Photos Nick Bentley

Pivot took a new route when it comes to prototyping, although everything is still manufactured on-site at their USA headquarters. Instead of building the first generation of frames from aluminum tubing and waiting for months for them to return from off-site heat treating, or building costly full-monocoque carbon molds, the engineering team designed simpler carbon tubes that are bonded into CNC'd aluminum lugs. This cut down the project time to just two and half weeks.

Compared to the current production Phoenix this proto weighs nearly the same, thanks to finite element analysis, and retains almost the same torsional stiffness in the front triangle - just 2% less. The very first prototype was similar to the production Phoenix but used a longer lower link. That gave a similar wheel path to the bike seen here, but after testing back to back with the DWF6 bike, the engineering team decided to push forward with the high-pivot design which averaged faster times in testing.

Photos Nick Bentley

Photos Nick Bentley
Photos Nick Bentley
Wolf Tooth has machined the idler wheels to use SRAM's 3-bolt chainring interface, but those 'Saint' cranks look a lot like the CNC work of Race Face.

Photos Nick Bentley

Chris says that the race team and engineers are still in the testing phase of leverage rates, so this may not be the final version, however, Cocalis is adamant that the production bike will be a full-carbon frame.

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80 Comments
  • 85 2
 You had the Grim Donut in your hands! This is like 5 steps backwards again!
  • 61 2
 JUST GIVE US THE F@#$@$ LUGS!
  • 3 0
 as much as I agree with you I'd bet it comes down to not having the same cost scaling as more units are made. Mold tooling has a large initial investment but becomes cheaper with each unit it can make. CNC can only go so fast, with and I'm sure the finishing work for the lugged bike is more labor intensive. I say we petition bastion cycles to get into the DH bike market
  • 21 1
 @KolaPanda: I DON'T F@$#&! CARE! GIVE US THE F@#&$! LUGS!
  • 4 0
 JUST GIVE US THE FUCKING NON DRIVESIDE PICTURE OF LINKAGE! there's something up with this, it cannot be coincidental. systematically, there's no non driveside pic so we could see what's going on there
  • 4 1
 @baca262: Bike Rumours Instagram have a video of the non-drive side in action. www.instagram.com/reel/CtRo3i0gxOZ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D
  • 2 2
 @baca262: there's more than enough information there. It's the same flawed (inherent issues with lower link area) link that Atherton bikes use.

Just with the addition of a flex stay instead of a horst link style pivot.
  • 9 0
 @bxxer-rider: yeah that Atherton bike sure was going slow this weekend.
  • 1 0
 @bxxer-rider: What is flawed about it ?
  • 43 2
 i have no interest in the full carbon version but if this was the production bike(ie same) i think id have to get it.
  • 7 2
 unrealistic as full carbon is much cheaper for serial production
  • 19 1
 @ciechan: yep i understand that, Weird that people downvote me for me wanting to buy a bike? lmao
  • 4 0
 @HeatedRotor: take my upvote
  • 1 0
 Get saving! I was on an uplift at Dyfi on the same day as BK last month, he was on the second proto I think but he said each one costs about $40,000.
  • 4 1
 @bazbails: 90 hours of CNC per frame is alot haha. but its pivot so that 40k is probably really 10k lol.

realistically if something like this was to become mass produced the price would be far cheaper as the CNC would be outsourced in asia.
  • 21 0
 Carbon haters: is this aluminum?
Aluminum haters: is this carbon?

Could this be the combo to calm the masses?!?
  • 9 0
 Steel didn't get it?
  • 14 0
 @danstonQ: Steel bolts. take it or leave it.
  • 3 0
 The combo to enrage the PB masses
  • 3 0
 I hate carbon and alloy. Bamboo bikes all day
  • 15 1
 FYI… though this is technically a high pivot design it’s more accurately a jack-drive…. i.e Brooklyn Machine Works and Supergo. I’m totally stoked to see this being implemented on such a well known brand. This design hasn’t yet seen it’s best days imho.
  • 9 0
 …and now that I panicked and looked closer it’s not a true jack drive either since the pivot isn’t at the idler. Dave Weagle is a wizard and I’m not sure what to call it but I’m all down for two chains.
  • 5 0
 not jack drive as drive shaft from one goes from one side of frame to other and turns in bearings. This is just two rings on a bearing on same side of frame similar to tora evh.
  • 1 0
 @bat-fastard: I totally forgot about the chains being on opposite sides, thanks for the clarification.
  • 21 5
 So Pivot is using flex stays then. Right right right.
  • 1 9
flag Shitass (Jun 10, 2023 at 0:16) (Below Threshold)
 No theyre not. It uses a lower link like every other pivot
  • 9 0
 @Shitass: It may have a lower link, but in order to cycle through full travel, some part of the seat/chainstays will have to flex.
  • 8 0
 Perplexing looks? You mean gorgeous looks!
  • 6 0
 That is a beautiful frame.
  • 5 0
 "Those seatstays look very similar to how my old "07" Titus Racer X did Smile
  • 1 0
 This is like riding chainless. Zero active stretch makes sense, Gwin demonstrated WC win without chain. That's why chainless is a thing at Whistler. The 'clutch' on your rear mech destroys suspension, try off mode and glide through the chunk again! Yeah it's noisy but performance is night/day.
  • 3 0
 Personally I can’t notice a difference in suspension feel when I switch the clutch off.
  • 1 0
 @Paco77: I can, very clearly.
But I suspect it can have a lot to do with the condition of the clutch. I haven't serviced mine yet and it's got 3 winters on it.
  • 2 0
 That’s interesting that you can feel it. It’s definitely time for a clutch service!
  • 3 0
 What does that proto weigh?

No doubt I'd get my leg caught in that chain contraption somehow.
  • 1 0
 The article says “nearly the same” as the production version
  • 4 0
 This must have been before the chainguide
  • 6 2
 Brooklyn Machine Works anyone?!
  • 2 0
 Look at those lugs almost as minimal wall thickness as a tig welded alloy joint.
To quote RC “Chris Cocalis is the millimeter man”
  • 1 1
 That DW drive train design (and patent) was aimed squarely at high pivot e-bikes.

Where are the real details like axle path, leverage rate, pedal kick back, anti squat, etc? Like the things that actually matter...Smile

Wonder if there are any benefits at all for a DH bike, or it's just something different for the sake of being different.
  • 3 0
 You wouldn’t want to be trying to clean that after a muddy day
  • 2 0
 How much better is this faux dw6 over a regular faux/ four bar? And is it worth the additional pivots?
  • 2 0
 My understanding is that a 6 bar suspension (including DW6 here and on Atherton bikes) allows tuning the shock rate and progression separately from the wheel path.
4 bar designs alter progression and wheel path at the same time.
  • 4 0
 Looks like a GT STS
  • 3 4
 It would be great to improve their customer service first. Had more than 10 Pivot bikes in the last 8 years and during the last three years everything is a problem from canceling orders to warranty claims.
It’s a shame since the bikes are good but with that prices and that lame customer service there are more good bikes out there
  • 1 0
 Now I know what a $20k bike is going look like. Didn’t hold a candle to to Specialized’s out going Demo model under an elite rookie though.
  • 1 0
 Pivot should sell the dh Bike Like this it Looks so fresh with the CNC parts and the Carbon. No need to produce overseas If You can do it in house
  • 3 0
 Take my money please
  • 2 0
 Rad, looks killer, Pivot pivot bolts.
  • 1 0
 Oddly enough, that headtube lug and bottom tube are designed to have the bottom tube have clearance with a non-DH fork...
  • 1 0
 Neko's bike and this one are some of the some of the best things going on in mountain biking!
  • 1 0
 @jackmolo34 I was thinking how years later companies like Yeti and Pivot are catching up with Specialized's 6 bar designs
  • 2 0
 That is beautiful tup
  • 2 1
 Incredible looking. Please make one out of steel Chris
  • 2 1
 Very nice frame, interesting “Saint” cranks
  • 1 0
 Like this pivots could actually be beautiful
  • 1 0
 why the Saint sticker on those cranks tho?
  • 2 0
 I speculate they needed direct mount cranks to fit the smaller chainring required by this design. XTR is a little skimpy for DH, so they're using cranks from another brand and hiding it to keep their drivetrain sponsor happy. Just a guess
  • 1 1
 2 Chainz!
Also, Brooklyn Machine Works called, and they want their Race Link back. Smile
  • 1 0
 Neko Mulally sponsorship?
  • 1 0
 Athertons have entered the chat
  • 1 0
 I still like this version.
  • 1 0
 Looking for sex without commitmentwrite to me ➤ u.to/mWPGHw
  • 1 1
 Wait! are we sure that's not an Asherton lol!
  • 1 2
 Looks nice and deferred t⚙⚙ !
  • 4 5
 Looks like an Atherton bike. Wink
  • 1 2
 nothing new, it is a technique already used in 1998 by GT for the STS model and later for the Lobo DH
  • 1 1
 @blacktea: Still looks like an Atherton. Wink
  • 1 2
 I would buy this if it was lugs and tubes not interested in full carbon
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