Commencal Supreme SX - Review

Nov 13, 2017
by Paul Aston  



When Commencal introduced their Supreme DH V4 and its high-pivot rear suspension, they included diagrams in their press release of the 160mm-travel test mule that was used as a proof of concept in the early stages of its development. It turned out that lots of people were asking about the mule, rather than the production downhiller. Commencal responded by building the Supreme SX, a 180mm-travel monster that is basically a downhill bike with its seat tube situated in the right place to help you get back up the hill.
Supreme SX Details

• Intended use: enduro, bike park, downhill
• Travel: 180mm F+R
• Hydroformed alloy frame
• 27.5" wheels
• RockShox suspension
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL (XL tested)
• Weight: 15.80 kg / 34.13 lbs
• Price: €3699 / $3699 USD
www.commencal-store.com

The Supreme SX is available as a frame-only option for €1599 / $1599 USD (without shock) and Commencal also offers the bike in a standard build kit, decked out in either black or orange for €3699 ($3699 USD). Finally, the brand offers an 'A La Carte' version of the Supreme SX, which allows riders to individually choose all the components from the palette of options that Commencal stocks. My bike was delivered in the standard build kit, with the exception of an upgrade to E*13 wheels and a SRAM XO1 11-speed drivetrain.


Commencal Supreme SX review
Commencal have done a killer job on the details, including this plastic guard that keeps the downtube and linkage protected from incoming geology.


Construction and Features

The Supreme SX is a long-travel brute that shares many similarities to its DH bro, including the updated "Contact System" linkage, frame protection, and an adjustable head tube. The swingarm is a one-piece design, where the DH bike has bolt-on dropouts for extra adjustability.


Commencal Supreme SX review
Commencal Supreme SX review
Commencal has also done a great job of soundproofing the bike with the ribbed rubber chain-slap guard, pipe lagging around the cable housing and moto foam filling the void underneath the shock.

Commencal Supreme SX review
A press-fit bottom bracket on an aluminum bike park shredder? I'm already prepping my popcorn for reading the comments.
Commencal Supreme SX review
The Supreme SX comes with a dedicated 180mm post mount for the rear brake and a stealth Maxle to lock down the rear wheel.


Geometry

Commencal Supreme SX review

The SX's geometry clearly directs it towards bike park and downhill trails; the straight 1.5" headtube allows for the 65º head angle to be tweaked +/-1º or add/remove 10mm to the frame's reach. The reach is already a chunk longer than the Supreme DH, with the maximum range of sizes stretching between 412mm and 502mm (with the use of cups). The chainstay is the same 425mm length as the DH bike, but the bottom bracket (when static) is an extra 5mm lower.

Commencal Supreme SX review
The straight 1.5" headtube allows adjustment to the frame size and head angle.



Suspension Design


Commencal Supreme SX review
The Supreme SX uses the same-style linkage to drive the metric shock as the DH V4.2.

Why a high pivot? Raising the height of the pivot well above the bottom bracket has a few advantages, namely that the rear wheel can move backward, and then over obstacles more easily. A normal chain line would stretch too far in this situation and induce huge amounts of pedal kickback, so routing the chain over an idler wheel eliminates this problem. There are downsides, however, as the design also adds extra friction and maintenance to the equation. Some riders report that this rearward axle path can also make it difficult to stay balanced on the bike, especially in corners as the rider's COG moves forward between the axles as the suspension compresses.

Another arguable downside of the HPP is that braking forces have a large effect on the suspension movement. This high anti-rise figure will make the bike squat when the brakes are pulled and inhibit the free movement of the suspension.


Commencal Supreme SX review
The chain runs through the swingarm, this means there is no way of losing the chain and pressure on the idler-wheel is even on either side of its bearings.

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On the left we can see the suspension compressing without the brake applied, on the right, the suspension is compressing with the back brake applied and the bike moves forward.



Specifications
Specifications
Price $3699
Rear Shock RockShox Super Deluxe RC3, 230 x 65 mm, 3 positions
Fork RockShox Lyrik RCT3 180 mm, solo air, boost
Headset Ride Alpha, semi integrated
Cassette SRAM XG 1150 11 speed
Crankarms SRAM Descendant, 32T
Bottom Bracket SRAM GXP Press Fit BB92
Chain KMC X11EL-1
Rear Derailleur SRAM GX 11 speed
Shifter Pods SRAM GX 11 speed
Handlebar Ride Alpha, 30mm rise, 780mm,
Stem Ride Alpha, 40mm
Grips Ride Alpha, super soft compound
Brakes SRAM Guide RE, 200 mm / 200 mm
Hubs Formula, 32 holes, sealed bearings
Spokes Pillar, Stainless steel, 2mm black
Rim Mavic 427, 27 mm inner
Tires Maxxis HRII 650 x 2.4 EXO TR front and Maxxis DHRII 650 x 2.3 EXO TR rear
Seat Ride Alpha Super Light foam, CrMo rails
Seatpost RockShox Reverb Stealth




Commencal Supreme SX review












Climbing

Most of my climbing time on the Supreme SX was limited to spinning road miles or catching a chairlift to the top. The Supreme SX climbs as well as I could expect of any 180mm travel bike with a downhill build kit, and pedaling through rough terrain is a breeze as the idler wheel prevents the feeling of your cranks being tugged as you pedal over bumps.

The only time I felt the bike struggle was when pedaling hard at a low cadence, which did make the bike wallow, but the compression-mode adjuster firmed the bike up effectively and kept the back of the bike high in the sag.

The 75º (actual) seat angle placed me nicely above the pedals to get on with the job, and yes, my saddle looks like it's in a funny position, but you should try it one day if you are going to lug yourself up a couple of hours hill climbing in one day.


Commencal Supreme SX review

Descending


Well this is what we are here for – downhill performance. It's pretty hard not to simply re-write Kazimer's review of the Supreme DH V4.2, as I agree with everything he said.

The first thing to notice is that the bike is beautifully quiet as it's almost impossible for the chain to connect to any metal that it shouldn't. Secondly, it simply floats over bumps and seems to carry speed superbly. Many times the front wheel strikes an obstacle and you are bracing for it to hit the rear wheel, and in the meantime, it has seemingly disappeared.

I think that high-pivot bikes with no pedal-kickback make the lives of flat-pedal riders so much easier. My feet stayed connected, secure and in the right place, even when plowing into really rough stuff.

The Super Deluxe in metric length was a completely different world to an imperially measured shock. Just joking. It's impossible to single out the length factor on an all-new bike, but it did perform superbly with the bike's layout and I was not asking for more progression or need for adjustment. It functioned quietly and there was little sign of performance change with heat build up. SRAM are confident that all of the improvements made to the Super Deluxe over the previous Monarch platform were only possible by changing the entire architecture of the shock, but it's hard to say in practice without trying both on the same frame which would require specific linkages.


Commencal Supreme SX review


Many people's main worry around HPP bikes is the "deadly brake jack." I have never found this a problem and actually prefer this to some degree for downhill riding, why? When you brake there is no noticeable effect until the wheel hits a bump; when this happens it makes the suspension sink into its travel, which helps to counteract the rear of the bike lifting as you slow down. I think this provides a more confidence-inspiring ride. This anti-rise is one of the more extreme examples on the Supreme SX and the situation when it did feel out of place was during steep steps in to sharp corners. If the back brake is applied to the point of skidding and then you hit a big step, it can drive the bike out in front and away from you; this was remedied through experience, though, by braking carefully and contracting my upper-body muscles to keep centered on the bike.

My main point of reference to how well a bike performs is how much confidence it gives me, and how it allows me to push myself and make use of what little skills I have left. The SX does just that. The bike does the hard work so you don't have to, then you can just get on with the task in front of you - the trail


GMBM



Technical Report



Ride Alpha Components:

The Ride Alpha components are well thought out and must help keep the price of this machine very reasonable. The 810mm handlebar gives scope to cut down to any rider's needs, the etched markings are actually useful for lining up brake levers and angle with the stem. My only bugbear was the 8mm hex key to tighten the stem top cap. Honestly, who puts an 8mm up there?
Commencal Supreme SX review



RockShox Super Deluxe:

I had no issues with the Super Deluxe and it was nice to see Commencal prioritize the best version of this damper (as well as the RCT3 cartridge in the Lyrik) on the affordable build kit. After the first ride, I thought "This bike would be perfect for the new handlebar remote version for the SuperDeluxe. I will order the cable and lever from RockShox tonight." Not so fast, it turns out that to add the remote to this shock requires a whole new piggyback reservoir, which means a full shock rebuild too.
Commencal Supreme SX review



Torque Caps:

RockShox first launched their Torque Caps with the RS-1 and then more recently with the all-new Lyrik. They add stiffness at the dropouts as the surface area connection between the hub's end caps and fork dropout. Unfortunately, if you have a standard hub-cap, like on these E*13 wheels, the wheel floats around as you try to locate the axle – it's a small complaint, but it feels like two steps forward then one step back in an industry of things not quite fitting properly and always needing to source small parts for products to work perfectly.

Commencal Supreme SX review




Nooks and Crannies:

Those holes are designed to attach the same Commencal mudguard as the DH Supreme V4.2, although the guard is not supplied as mud clearance isn't ideal on this frame. Without it, there is a plenty of nooks and crannies to fill with dirt and grime, or in my case, tubeless fluid from a puncture that wouldn't quite seal.

Commencal SX review




Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesA 'downhill bike that you can pedal' is oft-touted, but the Supreme SX is a real brute on the descents with good enough capability on the climbs, if you're not against the clock. The bike is easy to ride, features great attention to detail, a great build and plenty of value for money. Paul Aston








About the Reviewer
Stats: Age: 31 • Height: 6'1” • Ape Index: +4" • Weight: 75kg • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None • Instagram: astonator
Paul Aston is a racer and dirt-jumper at heart. Previously adding to the list of non-qualifiers at World Cup DH events, he attacked enduro before it was fashionable, then realized he was old and achy. From the UK, but often found residing in mainland Europe.


Must Read This Week

273 Comments

  • + 122
 Shame about the torque caps. If only there was a readibly available axle standard that was a bit stiffer than 15mm, eh?
  • + 70
 I absolutely love my 17.5mm axle, perfect mix of stiffness weight and diarrhoea I get everytime I hear about another absolutely necessary "inovation"
  • + 9
 @winko: I’ve heard that there’s a new 17.5+ mm axle standard that will help with all that ails ya.
  • + 0
 I know you're poking fun at the industry here, but Torque Caps are actually kind of cool. What's not cool about them is when a company is impossible to get a hold of when you want to switch your hub away from the TC "standard" *cough* Novatec *cough*.
  • + 1
 @seraph: Novatec should stop selling products if they're not going to support them. Absolute rubbish customer support and yet they still seem to end up with hubs and other parts on so many OEM bikes. I avoid that company like the plague.
  • + 1
 I had to resort to just buy the adapters for my Hope hubs, because it was just so annoying to have to align the whole thing...
  • + 1
 @Ploutre: same here, got Hope hubs with torque caps for my Lyrik
  • + 46
 Whyyyy are big Allen keys so offensive? They should all be 8 and 10mm and we need to get rid of these naff 4mm things.
  • + 35
 The top cal is a low torque part of the bike and smaller 4-6mm are more consistently found on other parts the bike and thus your trail tool. If you need anything more than 6mm on a push bike other than for pedals and cranks you will be breaking parts by over tightening before rounding bolt heads.
  • + 7
 @Racer951: it could be worse - I needed to change the freehub on a aceface wheel and it required *2* 12mm keys. most people (which used to include me) don't even have one.
  • + 13
 I don't think you need an 8mm or 10mm to preload your headset bearings. 5mm is more than sufficient.
  • + 15
 I could probably preload my headset with my knob but a 5mm allen key is better. And 8mm is even moar better.
Torque to spec does not mean turn it until it rounds off. Most people don’t preload their headset enough. Trail tools are only necessary BECAUSE our bikes are covered in stupid little bolts like my toddlers toys. Commencal get it, all their bolts are of a sensible size. Finally something worth arguing about around here Razz
  • + 26
 @ThomDawson: I'd be cool if you change every single bolt on my bike to a 6mm and then I can fix everything with a single hex and a hammer.
  • + 4
 @plyawn: shimano rear hub for 12mm axle requires a 15mm key Wink I would rather have 2x12 Wink
  • - 3
 @ThomDawson: you sound like a total hack, learn to use tools correctly.

How do Commencal exactly use 'proper' bolts then other than on pivots etc? Do they use custom brake calliper bolts? Larger than usual stem bolts? Bolt heads are not huge because it they don't need to be unless you want to overtighten everything until it breaks.

Quality tools with decent tolerances and good bolts are more important than using huge bolt heads so people can go nuts and break parts.
  • + 28
 @Racer951: 6mm ain't dead
  • + 5
 @acali: I’d be prepared to compromise at 6mm ;-)

@Racer951: you found me out. I’m a hack. What a wait off my shoulders. How do I start to climb myself out of this hack hole? Is there a course?
  • + 14
 @lkubica: I have that 15mm allen key. It’s quite a thing to heft. Almost sexual.
  • + 1
 Add too much weight to your pack, dawg...
  • + 0
 @ThomDawson: sure is, there are plenty of beginner bicycle maintenance courses nowadays.
  • + 2
 @Racer951: I mostly agree with you, but I've definitely come close to stripping 4mm (and smaller) bolts in the past, not because I was torquing the crap out of anything, but because the bolts had seized in place after not being moved for a long ass time. Of course, I haven't had that issue again since I bought some decent hex wrenches but still. I kind of wish they wouldn't go smaller than 4-5mm for any part. Or use torx heads if they do.
  • + 9
 @bkm303: I'd be happy if the bike doesn't have a single bolt less than 3mm.
These are all offenders:
rebound knob
damper compression knob
fork brake guide clip
some dropper post cable set screws
ODI grips (almost there bud! just another 0.5mm!)
Shimano derailleur adjustment screws (hey better than the old phillips screws)
Probably some others I'm not thinking of but they all suck.
  • + 7
 @acali: Those dumb bolts on the Race Face atlas cranks, used to tighten town the non drive side... STRIP CITY!
  • + 1
 @plyawn: 12mm? Psh, amateur. Some Shimano hubs require both a 14mm and 15mm hex wrench to disassemble.
  • + 7
 First Truvativ Stylo stem - never forget. 4mm allens for tightening the handlebar, 6mm for the steerer. That is 5mm for the top cap. 3 different allen bolts to mount one element... I get the same with shifters and brake levers. Why U no 5mm everywhere other than pedals!!!

BTW after trying most crankset systems out there, every company other than Shimano can suck my balls, crankset installation takes 2 minutes, including bearing cups. Hope is the dumbest thing I’ve seen but Race Face doesn’t follow much behind. Tolerances on their BB threads, jesus...
  • + 3
 @acali: I have always tried to setup my BMX like that. The hammer doesn't get as much use these days though frames now have good dropout designs.
  • + 5
 I agree that Shimano have it right with their crank system. Torx is often used where a shallow head is necessary to provide more surface area for the tool (rotor bolts e.g) but they’re also good if you need to get a higher torque from a smaller bolt i.e cranks where there is limited space for simply using a larger bolt. I accept there are a number of places on bikes where this is the case and propose that anything below 5mm should be torx - if it absolutely has to be smaller than 5mm. There is also a separate issue where manufacturers are using torque values to cover their arse on failures rather than giving an appropriate torque for a given application. In MTB we still have too much cross over from road bikes, too much time wasted reducing weight while keeping the costs down which means we get cheesey components held together with cheesey bolts.
Look at bmx bikes and Commencal bikes - they’re closer to what we should see across the board. Just make stuff bigger, stronger and stop it with the Mickey Mouse crap. Overkill is underrated.
Just for the record and those that kind of missed my point up there - bolt heads generally denote bolt size (M6=5mm Allen head etc). I wasn’t simply proposing putting an 8mm hex head on a 6mm bolt, that would be daft. I’m talking about using larger bolts, stronger components; everywhere on the bike. I fail to see how that would lead to more people breaking stuff, quite the opposite.
  • + 1
 PS just realised I’m not sure whether all Shimanos range uses torx on the non drive crank. Regardless it is the correct interface for that application.
  • + 1
 Btw for Race Face Turbine cranks you are in need of 16mm allen key. But it's not neccesary.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Boy are you in for a surprise.
  • + 1
 @bkm303: torx heads are the worst. So many stripped brake disc bolts.
  • + 0
 @ThomDawson: Take a look at engineering specification for bolt strength and the relationship between bolt strength, thread strength and the strength of the component that the bolt is being used within.

E.g. rather than use an M8 bolt, could you utilise a longer engaged thread length if required? - Where would you like to move your point of failure to? What I am saying here is components fail before bolts do in almost all cases already - stems crack before the bolts snap, bars break first, etc etc.

Your point about Mickey Mouse crap is only valid in situations where manufacturers make custom bolts (like pivot points and crank fasteners) in aluminium and stick 5mm headset in them, likely for manufacturing ease - its easier to broach smaller bolt heads.

BMX bikes are overbuilt beacause people smash the crap out of them and they are small and simple bikes so a little extra weight isnt a huge problem - How exactly do Commencal do the same? Do you have any examples of this other than the stem cap and maybe their pivot bolts, everything else looks pretty standard to me.

We just dont need larger bolts on most bicycle components, your example of nobody damaging parts is false - larger bolt heads = larger allen keys and therefore more leverage.

Larger bolts would also mean larger components, bigger, bulkier stems, larger brake callipers etc You are asking to a solution to a problem that just isnt widespread (apart from disc rotor bolts, they are shite)
  • + 3
 @Racer951: I’m familiar man. You’ve just assumed that I’m not which seems to be your MO.
I’m not sure I agree that components fail before bolts. I’ve seen more bolts fail than componentry. But my personal experience isn’t a complete representation I suppose.
Commencal - pivots and linkages, exactly.
We should all be out there smashing the crap out of our bikes, not prancing around on show ponies. I want manufacturers to assume I’m gonna ride rampage every day rather than pootle up the high peak trail as they tend to do now.
  • - 3
 @ThomDawson: But MTB is not about smashing bikes up and riding rampage every day - what planet are you on?, most people ride trails, singletrack, in the woods etc not on a concrete bowl / park / street and crashing every 20 mins - They dont want to ride a bike with huge overbuild components just because some people cant tighten a bolt properly and they have jobs to return to after riding, they cant smash themselves up either.

And your point about being familiar with componentry in an engineering sense falls short if you think bolts fail before components - you are seriously suggesting you would not pull the thread / break the component before the bolt? A 12.9 bolt has a tensile of over 1200mpa, 6061 is just over 220.

I mean if you really think steel bolts are breaking all over the place how is it that many WC level DH racers use Ti bolts in all sorts of areas, including stem bolts - do you see their bikes falling apart, are you suggesting maybe they dont ride hard enough either?
  • + 3
 @choppertank3e: what?? Torx is objectively better for preventing stripped bolt heads, it has far more contact area with the tool, and the contact faces are more perpendicular to the force being applied. You sure you used the right size? Did you clean out the bolt head beforehand? Often I'll have dirt caked inside the bolt head that prevents full insertion of the tool.
  • + 1
 @bkm303: I agree that Torx are better in this regard but rotor bolts are one of the few areas I agree that improvements could be made with regard to head size - They can be a right pain in the arse if corroded and stuck hard in the hub - heat cycling + corrosion + threadlock can make them seize up quite well.
  • + 4
 @Racer951: maybe it isn’t for you and for everyone riding those show ponies but for me that’s what mtb is - just bmx but in the woods and with suspension and brakes that stop you. I don’t go out for a shred on my bmx I order to smash it up, it’s just a by product of having fun. Same for mtb only I have to pull every punch on the mtb for fear something snaps off. My point about bolt sizes comes from this - I wish my mtb was more like my bmx.
You are assuming all components are created perfectly but in a world where weight and profit margins beat strength they are far from it. All of the bolts I’ve seen fail have likely been due to poor design of the product the bolt is intended to secure and of which the bolt is integral.
Please, stop putting words into my mouth to continue an argument with me for the sake of it. You’re after an argument so bad you’re willing to have it with yourself. I haven’t said bolts are breaking all over the place, steel or otherwise and I’m not gonna repeat myself.
All my own bolts are Ti (crazy right) I’ve found some good Ti bolts are better than the shit that sometimes comes stock. But ultimately my issue is with poor design in products that should be able to take a beating. There is too much emphasis on how shmancy bikes look on a roof rack, how little it weighs and how much of it is made of carbon. It’s BS and I don’t like BS.
  • - 5
flag Racer951 (Nov 14, 2017 at 6:43) (Below Threshold)
 @ThomDawson: I will leave this here, you are so full of contractictions, I will let you go on breaking your bike and rounding those bolt heads off while you fail to understand the majority of people that ride bikes dont have 'show ponies' but dont deliberately try and bash them to bits either
  • + 1
 @Racer951: I don’t round bolt heads. That’s how this whole thing started. A misunderstanding due to a poor choice of words and an eagerness to find a weakness in a statement. Please do leave it here and refrain from taking my words for another spin. My opinions, thoughts and beliefs are complex - I’m a green campaigner, studied countryside at school and I’m pro fracking - but they’re not contradictions. People tend toward absolutism because it’s easier to understand, and to me that is frustrating. It’s also frustrating when people insist on twisting words and plain making up whole sentences to suit their goal. We’ll never get anywhere with attitudes like that.
I just want bigger bolts ffs.
  • + 4
 Nuts n bolts monthly...just bought another years subscription. It’s a right fecking riveting read..
  • + 1
 @Racer951:
You make valid points but damn you are Dick about it. What’s you problem? You really need to go on a mtb site and read people the riot act because they aren’t as knowledgeable about bolt strength as you are. Lame as it gets, dude. Too bad because it’s obvious you have good knowledge to share but you’re too busy being an a*shole.
  • + 2
 @acali: what's the hex for?
  • + 2
 @lkubica: weird, not on mine. Luckily I had a 7/6th that is within a fraction of a mm.

And as they didn't see 12mm by itself I now have a set up to 19mm, so if I ever need to change some tank tracks I'm set!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: What don't you like about he Race Face setup? I don't remember anything too stupid about it; the outboard nut to cinch up any play works well (after struggling to set up that octolink garbage in the past)
  • + 1
 @choppertank3e: especially cause they sit down in the muck. Though I'm not sure if the Shimano alternative is better...
  • + 1
 @bkm303: I don't mind Torx, but you did hit on the problem - they're pretty shallow so any dirt or corrosion makes stripping them pretty easy.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: if I were allowed to have control over 1 charge for the entire bike industry it would be to make all bolts 5mm.
f*ck the rest of the 'standards', as long I will need nothing more than my favorite 5mm I will die a happy man.
  • - 5
flag Racer951 (Nov 14, 2017 at 14:35) (Below Threshold)
 @Robbyc78: cry me a river.
  • + 38
 Probably the best looking bike in terms of shape and form atm. Deffo on the cards for next summers park bike when I need to buy just a frame.
  • + 4
 Evil Wreckoning has something to say about that!
  • + 19
 @hamncheez: yeah but the seat tube angle of the wreckoning is horrific
  • + 10
 Definitely an interesting bike. How long before we have 200mm travel front and rear that can be pedalled up?

It begs the question how much travel is too much or is there a thing as too much travel if it works efficiently?
  • - 7
flag scary1 (Nov 13, 2017 at 12:50) (Below Threshold)
 @tetopluz: oh,please. It is not
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: polygon square one?
  • + 5
 you get decide how much is too much for yourself and everyone else gets to decide on their own. You don’t like the bike because it has “too much” travel then don’t worry about it. You don’t have to ride it.
  • + 8
 @scary1: your kidding right? The effective seat angle its around 68... not the virtual one (74 deegres), if you are taller than 6f. your ass will be above the rear hub
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: Depends where you're riding the thing doesn't it? I could live with one of these if the wheels were light enough.
  • + 6
 The whole area around the seat tube is ugly as fuck!!!
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: two older guys in my area have downhill bikes with front dearailluers on them, not sure what models they are though
  • + 3
 Rocky Mountain Slayer has the sleekest lines IMO.
  • + 6
 @fartymarty: It's almost funny when you think about it:

Pedal bob makes climbing less efficient. But like, how much? Enough to make a difference for normal riders who don't race?
And even for enduro racers, which I think sometimes race uphill sections, they are short enough to make any efficiency gains seem even smaller than they are.

So how much does it affect you when you ride your 180mm mini dh bike with a burly build uphill and you arrive a few minutes later to the top if you're not racing? Seems silly to worry about this so much, specially since making an efficient all mountain bike for climbing often means compromising downhill performance. But seriously, somebody tell me how much time is lost on a given distance because of pedal bob alone.

IMHO, give me the best performing possible AM rig on the downhill, and unless I'm racing, I'll take care of the rest.
  • + 0
 It's a personal preference, but in my eyes this bike is ugly like... like... Ellsworth!? That seat tube triangle, that lower belly at the BB, that chain route. My eyes hurts.
  • + 1
 @Deartist7: I agree if you aren't racing then uphill pedalling efficiency is a "nice to have" rather than must if your focus is on the downs.

It does depend a lot on your riding terrain. For me this is way too much bike but if lived in Wales it would be a different story.
  • + 1
 @SCCC120: I used to do the same with my DH bike. Had 160mm forks and 1x with a wide range cassette. It wasn't the quickest uphill but it worked and got you down quick. I didn't use it for trail riding though as it was too heavy at 36lb.
  • + 1
 @SCCC120: Following my last comment if I was riding somewhere with a decent elevation drop a bike with 200mm of travel with pedalling friendly angles very progressive suspension weighing 32 pounds would be the ticket.

It wouldn't be the quickest up but very close to a full DH rig on the way down.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: it reminds me of @SintraFreeride: Pole.
  • + 2
 @fartymarty: I agree that I don't need hardtail-like efficiency, but pedal bob used to drive me nuts - when it's bad you can just feel your pedal strokes going straight into the damper. Plus, if you're not shuttling or riding lifts, 80% of your time on the bike is spent climbing. If it's just short fire road up / trail down laps I could see not caring about efficiency too much, but IMO it makes a difference on days with lots of miles and elevation gain on singletrack. I think it makes a lot of sense to go for a bike that pedals decently well - it's not like there's a lack of options. But as always it depends what kind of riding you want to do. I figure I spend so much time climbing (mostly singletrack) that I might as well make it a little more enjoyable.
  • + 1
 @bkm303: I was thinking more of fire road climbs in the alps rather than tech single track climbs. If you are doing tech single track climbs (as I tend to do at the moment) you want a bike that can climb relatively well. If I were winching up a fire road I would settle with something that isn't as efficient and have a climb switch / increase comp damping to reduce bob.

This is why 29ers are interesting. You can get away with less travel than 650 yet retain the speed and control downhill. A 150 / 160mm 29er is probably the equivalent of this bike yet is likely to be more efficient when climbing as it doesn't have the travel to bob.

For big days out I would always go for something that is more efficient. Given I only have a 29HT I don't have a lot of choice anyway Razz
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: yeah 29HT was my only bike for 2-3 years as well, I caved and got full sus when I moved back to CO because it's all punishing sharp ledgy stuff here that left me feeling like I got hit by a truck after long rides.

But yeah originally I was on an old 26" XC bike (no dropper), and moving to the 29 HT (with dropper) was pretty eye-opening - I was actually pushing higher gears on a lot of climbs because the wheels were hanging up less, and pretty quickly I started beating a lot of my old full sus strava times. While it's not exactly the same as having suspension, I figure the bigger wheels are effectively worth about 20mm of fork/frame travel. I think that's part of the reason bikes like the Smuggler and Process 111 are so fun.
  • + 2
 @bkm303: I have had a similar experience on the 29HT. A mate rides a 160mm 26FS and I was chasing him through a fairly flatish rooty twisty track. He was pedalling a heap and I was rolling most of it. I think 29 definitely are equivalent of 2-3" of 26" travel.

I am keen on getting a 150mm 29FS at some point but think something with 120mm would be great for what I ride at the moment. I was looking at a Starling Murmur as you can run it at 120mm or 145mm by changing the shock. A slack short travel 29FS would be fun.

The Smuggler looks great. Its a shame Kona didn't continue the 111 and those with them are probably not going to be in a hurry to sell them.
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Evil bikes all looks the same and its overpriced carbon rubbish.
  • + 1
 @tetopluz: so why dont you say "if you're over 6 feet"? Mines great. I dont know what everyone is expecting. Everything is a compromise somewhere on the bike
  • + 17
 How does this compare to the Nomad IV?
  • + 19
 Ride performance wise, no idea. Price wise, when you go to sell this, you wont be upset that you had to sell it for $2200 or something because you bought it for $3700. Then with the nomad youll be irritated as shit to realize that a perfectly fine, normal, good bike has to be resold for 3 or 4 grand off its price... (my numbers arent exact. Just something I notice.)
  • + 11
 @chillrider199: To be fair the two are similar prices frame only - Nomad alu is £1800 (including shock) whilst this is £1400 (no shock).
Nomad has BSA bottom bracket and free bearings for life, plus would probably be an easier resell if you were to get rid of it. I know what I'd go for...
  • + 2
 Im trying to decide between the 2. This might have a slight more DH feel with the extra travel, the extra 2lbs, and being able to run a 64hta. I like the nomads suspension design, and it probably pedals better, but want a the closest thing to a DH that can go up. Undecided
  • + 2
 Does anyone know how these compare to the Canefield Jedi, another HPP bike? I talked to one of the Canefiled engineers, and he said most of the chain growth is in the first 2 inches of travel, before the sag point. Wouldn't this negate most of the advantages of a HPP?
  • + 6
 The premium you pay for Santa Cruz really shows in the fit and finish of the frame and the quality of the paint. Santa Cruz has much better quality control. Press Fit BB is the cheap and lazy way to do things. Plus things like free bearings, threaded BB and an actual warranty. Haven't ridden this thing, but I'm confident the Nomad will pedal better and it is a phenomenal descender.
  • + 4
 Put some boxxers on that thing and that would slay the downs
  • + 9
 @wibblywobbly: what sets this bike apart is the price you pay for the components that come with it. $3700 for a bike that comes with the same suspension as the top of the line nomad is pretty sweet
  • + 11
 own the supreme and owned the nomad. The nomads climbs better but there is no comparison descending the supreme kills it.
  • + 5
 @Robbyc78: the N4? The N3 might as well be a different bike so it’s not what we’re looking to compare it with.
  • + 2
 @FindDigRideRepeat:
They’re really not comparable I agree. I was responding the previous post. I had the 3 and I’ve had plenty of seat time on the 4 and I stand by statement. The nomad does not compare on the descents. The supreme is far superior. After all that’s what it was built for.
  • + 2
 @FindDigRideRepeat:
You want the closet thing to a dh bike that you can still pedal and this is it.
  • + 1
 @Robbyc78: Right on, this review has me rethinking the nomad. Are the headset cups available yet to run a 64hta? What kind of warranty do they offer and is it in the 34lb range?
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat:
2 year warranty not the lifetime Santa Cruz offers and I️ do not believe the headset cup with the offset are available yet but I️ haven’t checked. I’m happy how it is. Not to speak bad of the nomad by the way. That’s badass bike too they’re just slightly different tools.
  • + 2
 @FindDigRideRepeat: Not sure about headcups, but there's a flipchip to drop half a degree. Lifetime frame warranty, reasonable use for components. Free bearings for life to the original owner. And my xl aluminium build runs 33lbs, without any thought put towards weight savings.
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat:
It weighed 33lbs last time I weighed it.
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat:
It’s a 5 year warranty. Just looked it up.
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: Works Components make angle adjust headsets that fit the Nomad - you can go up to two degrees slacker with them. My Banshee Spitfire now has a sub 64 deg HA when set up for uplift days.
  • + 1
 @slimboyjim: TRUE! Nomad Alu is actualy very well priced!
  • + 13
 Love this bike. Bought it as soon as it was released. Upgraded the suspension with full avalanche and a new Hadley/spank wheelset. It climbs just fine. And it’s as quiet as nun farting.
  • + 14
 There is actually only one bike to compare, but it's not listed in the compare section:
Propain Spindrift!
  • + 0
 Is the spindrift not short shocked?
  • + 1
 @fussylou: ??? 180mm front and rear. There is a nice comparisson between the Supreme, the Spindrift and the Radon Swoop on mtb-news.de.
  • + 1
 Intense uzzi , liteville 601
  • + 13
 ribbed rubber chain-slap guard ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • + 10
 Wonder how good could be an "enduro friendly version" of the SX, with just 160 mm of travel, the same kind of suspension and a lower weight. Great bike tho
  • + 4
 Why going to 160 would make it weight noticeably less? I think that this was Commencal's reasoning for this bike, why putting less travel in an equally heavy bike?
  • + 1
 @lkubica: I was thinking about a new lighter frame too, but keeping the same kind of suspension of the sx instead of going with the meta AM, in order to have an enduro bike but with the features and the look of the sx. Just to make it a bit more "raceable", I read Barelli saying that he loves the sx but maybe it's too much for the ews.
  • + 2
 @Eduardocortellesi: I think that such a frame will always weight a bit more than a traditional one. Look at those welds, it must be massive to be rigid enough.
Anyway, it may be too much for EWS for Barelli, but it does not mean that it would be too much for an ordinary human. EWS is all about speed and endurance. But for typical person this does not matter that much. For sure such a bike would be very comfortable to ride on descends if you do not need high pace on flatter sections.
I would love to try this bike. I am sure that my next bike will be this or the new Nomad. I do not get the talking about that a bike is too much for something. Sure, if you have very easy, flat trails with no obstacles than maybe. But for Finale or any proper "enduro" trail it will be much more comfortable to ride.
  • + 0
 I wish they had based this bike on the Furious design instead of the Supreme. Furious rides much better than the Supreme IMO.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: two different beasts and ideas. Hpp isn't what freeriders want.
  • + 1
 @konarrider2007: Why did they make a freeride bike with a HPP then? IMO HPP feels disconcerting because the geo changes so much during travel. After demoing Furious and Supreme back-to-back, I prefer the Furious for full on DH, and a 180mm version would be great for general purpose park riding.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: Totally agree. The Furious is just too much bike for most Park use, and this one looks to be designed to just eat up the bumps rather than for playfulness.
I've got the old Supreme FR and it's an awesome bike, but it wont last forever. If they did an updated version of that (basically the Supreme SX without the HPP and with a slightly shorter wheelbase) I'd snap one up without a second thought.
  • + 2
 @dthomp325: A word on the changing geometry - so long as both wheels compress at the same rate, head angle and seat angle remain constant in both types of design. A traditional pivot brings the rearwheel up and forwards to maintain a constant upper chain length, whilst the front wheel comes up and backwards at the rate of the head angle. This has the effect of moving your centre of gravity much further back in the wheelbase, and the wheelbase shrinks beneath you as the wheels come together. With a HPP, the rearwheel moves up and backwards to keep the upper chain length constant. This has the effect of keeping the wheelbase more constant under compression, so your CoG remains more central between the axles. I'd argue that a HPP gives you a more balanced geo change under compression than a traditional sus design.
  • + 9
 @pinkbike can you guys please do a party bike shoot out. Take the Supreme SX, delirium, spindrift, firebird and the nomad V4 and do a comparison article? I’m sure I’m not the only one out there that would appreciate it!
  • + 3
 @tricyclerider: Check out www.mtb-news.de ~ They did a Radon Swoop - Propain Spindrift - Commencal Supreme SX shootout
  • + 10
 Between this and the Furious, Commencal have some of the nicest looking bikes out there at the moment for sure.
  • + 5
 This is basically what a lot of us Canfield fans have been asking...a Jedi for the trail. I hope Canfield will consider something like this in the future, although I know they are too small a company to simply do whatever the fans want. This looks quite interesting, and the price doesn't seem too bad as well.
  • + 5
 "A press-fit bottom bracket on an aluminum bike park shredder? I'm already prepping my popcorn for reading the comments"

I don't know if I'm lucky or maintain my bike well but had no issues since I started using pressfit 3 years ago on XC an DH bikes, both Shimano and Sram BBs.
BB shell can be a lot wider, stiffer and lighter on pressfit, thinking about shrinking back to BSA sounds for me like Nasa will send satelites with a rubber bands.
Why don't we thread the headset too? As long as you got a hammer and a presstool and the pressfit will get better over the next years, I don't see the point of BSA.
  • + 5
 "...and yes, my saddle looks like it's in a funny position, but you should try it one day if you are going to lug yourself up a couple of hours hill climbing in one day."

^^^This guy gets it. For people who climb steep mountains regularly this angle makes for a comfy flat saddle.
  • + 1
 Out of interest how is it for flatter rolling terrain - does it tip you forward, is it not noticeable, or do you just stand up when not climbing?
  • + 1
 @slimboyjim: not sure, I don't have anything but freaking walls as trails. I imagine it would be no good for rolling trails.
  • + 5
 builds up to the same weight as my Free Ride bike. Commencal built this frame to last and take a beating! There are better bikes for climbing. But this bike can climb and youl be very thankfull for all that travel once your going down. You could put on a floating disk brake if your worried about the suspension firming up when you apply the brakes. If this was a Santa Cruz the bike would cost twice this price!
  • + 1
 Actually the Santa Cruz nomad al frame cost the same as the commencal supreme sx frame. I would get Santa Cruz, lifetime warranty on frame and bearings, and doesn't have the hpp toake the bearings wear faster as well as making the suspension stiffer when rear wheel is locked up
  • + 7
 Finally! Aluminium bike Paul! No ocean fill, zero emissions, runs on collective guilt and good intentions!
  • + 4
 Anyone else think it's obscenely heavy? My aluminium dh bike is 34lbs, lighter then this with room to take load more out of the spec if I so chose.

Also take your pressfit bb and shove it where the sun don't shine!....... Thoughts from experienced bike tech.
  • + 7
 This is exactly the bike I’ve been looking for! Except it has a press fit B.B. Back to the drawing board!
  • + 1
 alu nomad? Frameset is comparable price
  • + 1
 Agreed.
  • + 7
 Radon Swoop 170 is the answer.
  • + 1
 @stumpe90: too bad NA doesnt get radon.
  • + 4
 Rose Soul Fire
  • + 2
 Press fit is all right if done properly. Start with a quality BB by a reputable brand. My Enduro PF30 BB has been creak free for almost a year now.
  • + 1
 My SRAM PF BB is going strong in my Meta V4 after 18 months straight of riding. I have had PF BBs wear our after just a couple months on other bikes. Maybe I got lucky with my particular frame, but I can only assume that Commencal is capable of achieving tolerances that allow a PF BB to last.
  • + 1
 I came here for the PressFit outrage and it's this far I have to scroll down? You are getting soft, Pinkbike... ????
  • + 3
 As it's the PB comments section, I am desperately looking for something to rip into about this bike...But Damn...I kinda like it. I could watch the suspension move through it's travel all day long...I FOUND IT, PRESS FIT BB, I KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT!!
  • + 6
 Finally I can put that bike next to fireplace. Because that frame is not a plastic. Yay.
  • + 3
 i can certainly understand why the HPP would have stellar bump eating performance, but does it ever feel weird when jumping? it seems like the rearward movement of the wheel might be a significant drawback on the face of a jump.
  • + 3
 Nope. Not at all. Big gaps is what I do this bike loves it.
  • + 1
 Yeah I just got one and I think it's super fun to jump
  • + 0
 I demoed the Supreme and it felt disconcerting in tech sections and on big hits because the geo changes a lot when you get further into the travel. I didn't like that feeling all. I thought the Furious was a much better bike, even on DH race tracks, despite that being the Supreme's supposed strength.
  • + 1
 @dthomp325:
Couldn’t disagree more. The nastier the steeper the better the supreme feels. It did take me a day to adjust to the bike getting longer when compressing into the lip of a jump or bunny hoping over shit but that was minor and once I️ was able to adjust nothing was off the table.
  • + 2
 I"ll post this here again:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/15235369

The traditional design already had a very high pivot point- I wonder if you could somehow do a double blind experiment how many of us mortal riders could tell the difference.
  • + 2
 Man, I just stared at that for a minute and I'm still not done processing it.
  • + 2
 Right, I've got it.
New pivot twice as high. That's a lot isn't it?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: its not the percentage difference, its the absolute difference. Only 2 or 3 inches
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: a couple of inches goes a long way Wink
  • + 4
 Short travel V4.2 with a single crown but has the best of both worlds in 1 bike,pretty good job Commencal.
  • + 1
 @paulaston : "The straight 1.5" headtube allows for the 65º head angle to be tweaked +/-1º or add/remove 10mm to the frame's reach"

Specs says: "HEADSET TYPE IS41 / ZS56"

How can you put reach/angle adjustment on an IS headset?
  • + 1
 It has head tube inserts. The bike ships with a zero degree/zero offset cup but Commencal were supposed to be releasing offset cups at the very least, which i haven't seen yet.

This is what the bike and the Supreme DH ships with:

www.commencal-store.co.uk/no-offset-low-cup-headtube-for-supreme-dh-v4-c2x17656863
  • + 1
 @shmity: This mean that they have a ZS56 cups top and down, why do they mention IS41? Or they have ZS56 cups which take IS41 bearings? But this is misleading, IS means no cup, just bearing into the frame.
  • + 2
 @lkubica: They probably think of the cup is frame specific just like a flipchip even though the cup has standard dimensions just so mechanically challenged people won´t think they need a straight 1.5 fork steerer or something. Maybe the marketing department was involved?

I think straight 1.5 headtubes have its merits and should come back more as it gives you lots of setup options with no real negatives performance wise.
  • + 1
 @lkubica: The SX blurb isn't that clear, the Supreme DH description is better, supplied cups are ZS56 and they take an IS41 headset. Its not necessarily incorrect, the IS standard only dictates that the bearing surface is below the top of the headtube and requires no pressfit for the headset itself. Aside from the description its a good system and once Commencal pull their finger out and release the the angle and offset cups itll give the Supreme SX and DH 4.2 a good amount of adjustability. If you wanted to I cant see why you couldn't run a ZS56 headset instead of the cups.
  • + 1
 Ok, I understand. Looks great, pitty you cannot buy this yet. Works components does ZS56 reach adjust but only for non-tapered forks, so not really for this bike. But, now I wonder, this reach adjust will probably be only for non-tapered forks. This works for DH, but not for supreme SX, as no one makes non-tapered single crown forks now ...
  • + 1
 I'm actually on the lookout for a 180mm bike and if this had come out before the dhv4.2 I probably would of bought one but after owning a dhv4.2 I'm out! Sold it after just a few months as I really did not like it ! I've owned and still own similar High pivot idler pulley style bikes and loved them and was expecting to love the dhv4.2 but it wasn't the case! Maybe this model will feel better! I certainly hope so !
  • + 1
 I was trying to think up some snarky, witty, dig for this bike review, but apart from a press fit bb, the review is well written, the bike seems well designed and represents good value. Why is it dh style bikes are cheaper than their am brothers? I love to see alternate approaches to design as well. Bravo!
  • + 4
 want to see a shootout between this, the new Nomad the Polygon Squareone and the Zerode Taniwha. Come on PB you can do it
  • + 1
 One of these bikes is not like the others, and not in a good way. Also, is the Polygon actually any good?
  • + 3
 @BenPea: Good enough for 2nd place in the UCI DH World Championships by 0.339 seconds.
  • + 1
 @Verbl-Kint: Wasn't that the DH bike?
  • + 2
 @BenPea: They mentioned it was a "prototype" yet it looks exactly like the Square One but with a dual crown fork. When you think about it, if it's truly only a difference in 20mm travel between a DH bike and the Polygon, then it does make sense to try out that kind of setup in Cairns.
  • + 1
 Looking at the suspension cycle, with the chain in the middle of the cassette, there is a huge amount of cage movement on the RD.
What if the chain is in one of the largest cogs, and the cage is already rotated up? Is this an issue? Am I missing something?
  • + 4
 so the build pictured throughout the article is not the actual build people would receive for $3699?
  • + 2
 Yeah, it looks like they're testing the higher-tier model but posting the build for the cheaper one. Which is strange because their component report is irrelevant in that case.
  • + 2
 @seraph: not the first time its happened either, the pictured spec for $3700 is awsome but the listed spec comes up short compared to other brands
  • - 10
flag mollow (Nov 13, 2017 at 15:11) (Below Threshold)
 @Tr011: how about you f*cktwits try to read the article instead of fabulating like little morons?
  • + 2
 @mollow: we did read the article. We're only commenting on the fact that they're reviewing components of the bike that don't actually come on the $3700 model. You gotta admit, a full X01 drivetrain and E.13 wheels is a pretty big upgrade over stock.
  • - 6
flag mollow (Nov 13, 2017 at 15:43) (Below Threshold)
 @seraph: yeah but he didn't say anything about the derailleur? And the only tiny reference to the wheels is in the torque caps which is relevant since people like to change wheels...
  • + 2
 @mollow: the torque caps literally make no difference with compatibilty of alternate wheels, its just some fancy pants reviewer trying to find a flaw. If you complain about fiddling around with your axle trying to find the hole then maybe a torque cap compatible fork is the least of your issues
  • + 1
 yeah, i'm sure most riders are now riding carbon and accustomed to smooth flowy designs,but well executed welds are a beautiful thing. too bad bike designers can't pull off what santa cruz did with the 1st gen nomad. flowy design with masterful welds.
  • + 2
 I’d love to hear real comparisons of this bike vs the Nomad, Enduro, Firebird (and any other 170 “enduro” bike). Is this bike less of a pedaler and more of a descender than the others etc...
  • + 2
 as much as the press fit bb sucks, the Wheels MFG thread cups solve that problem. so i call this a win. plus its recycleable. which is nice
  • + 2
 Yeah tbh I don't get all the bitching about the BBs. I installed my own PF30 with DIY tools and loctite retaining compound and have had no issues after a year. But I know that if it does start creaking I can just throw down the $75 for the Wheels BB and never worry about it again. I guess it sucks to have to go through the hassle but it's not something that would steer me away from a bike I really liked.
  • + 4
 "Affordable". "€3699".

When did 3699€ become affordable ?
  • + 3
 Yup, still more than I paid for my car...
  • + 13
 For a bike with top end suspension brand new that's an outstanding deal
  • + 5
 @ibishreddin: maybe in USA you don't have the same choice than us in UE, but here we have better datasheets for less money (ie. Propain Spindrift Trail at 3165€, even with Eagle... Radon Swoop at 2800€...).
  • + 2
 @vweb: that's true. European bikes are such amazing value. I guess this commencal in comparison to those brands mentioned is expensive lol
  • + 8
 @ibishreddin: I disagree, "affordable" is not the same as "good price considering the spec".
"affordable" is what some people are looking for, and it means "cheap enough" whatever that means to you.
It can be "max 1800€ or "max 2500€", in which case the best options are online sellers. Then you choose to buy the 2200€ Capra with lyric RC, or the discounted swoop ar 2250€ with lyric RCT3 etc.
  • + 0
 Is it the frame-only that seems on the higher price end? If it's $1600 is $2K a pretty good deal for a complete build kit including the shock?

I ask because I'm building up a hardtail and I'm over $2K for a all shimano build with a Yari...
  • - 3
 @plyawn: you obviously suck at searching for deals lmao
  • + 2
 Back in the 90s you would still pay $4000 for a cannnondal or gt..
  • + 1
 @eicca: my wheels alone cost more than my vehicle. Alll it means is you probably have a pretty nice bike
  • + 1
 @Crankmt: Actually spent less on the bike than the car Big Grin somehow.... I can guarantee it won't be that way with my next bike...
  • + 1
 @Uuno: THAT is my point of view.
  • + 1
 @sewer-rat: you so funny... But that's EXACTLY the problem. We, as consumers and lovers of beautiful things agree to pay more and more years after years. For 27,5", for Boost, for high-end suspensions when "low"-end (at 7 or 800€, which is not really "low-end"...) ones with good chassis plus preparation will work better.

"It's more expensive, but we have hours and hours of R&D / but the ratio USD/EUR (or USD/GBP) is higher and higher, and look at it we just gained 8% of stiffness so PAY FOR IT (even if through the year we removed the dropper-post to stay at the same price...) !"
  • + 4
 Sure, but the 29er will be faster right?
  • + 2
 Damn that would be a nice
  • + 3
 If they made one. Which they dont. Not yet, at least. When they do, sign me up.
  • + 1
 @PHeller: I am holding my breath they do make one...
  • + 2
 Fast isn't the point of this bike. Fun is. Its not a DH, you'd get spanked in a race, and its not an enduro, climbing and pedaling on flat terrain will be much slower than a real enduro bike. So its kind of useless unless you love to have fun.
  • + 3
 The "faster" wheel size will be whichever the marketing guys i the bike industry decide Smile
  • + 4
 why the hell so long seat tube?
  • + 1
 I think it's an illusion because the top tube dips down so low
  • + 7
 @NotAnotherClimb: 470mm in L size is not an illusion
  • + 1
 Exactly. Will it take a 175mm dropper post or larger?
  • + 4
 I think that the tested bike is na XL ...
  • + 2
 @bok-CZ: Actually, 470mm is very normal for a size L. Check out the geometry of many L size bikes as I have. They're usually around 18-20in (457-508mm) seat tube lengths.
Capra is 477mm, Giant Reign is 508mm, Norco Range is 470mm.

It's an illusion compounded by the fact it's an XL frame. It's because the top tube dips so low.
  • + 4
 Nothing says "I tested the crap out of this bike" like cooked rotors!
  • + 4
 That's still a lot of chain growth
  • + 1
 You mean lower portion? Yeah, this could be remedied by a chainguide. I wonder how much chain drag this would induce - a pulley + chainguide. But if suspension is smooth,then there is really no need for chainguide, except use of an oval chainring.
  • + 4
 btw that 8mm hex on top cap is maybe supposed from brake hose routing
  • + 1
 Maybe but Commencal just tend to use proper sized bolts.
  • + 1
 Yea except they also use that 8mm bolt on all their top caps. I don't plan on doing barspins on my Meta.
  • + 1
 Just the bolt head is 8mm, the actual threaded part is the same as a standard stem cap bolt.
  • + 1
 That rear suspension. "So the bottom quarter of the bike goes into the ground when it bottoms out? Yes you do know your customer base!"
  • + 0
 Ok just clear this up for me because I want to like this bike, but it literally looks like the chain ring will be 3 inches in the ground with both suspension bottomed out, no? I want to like this bike, I like the 1.5" steer tube etcetera, but why would you want the main chainstay pivot 8 inches above the bottom bracket? Especially on a bike where pedal strike is a problem in vertical crank position with 0 suspension. If I made bikes I'd make them to a platinum standard because it's an unimportant niche market here.
  • + 3
 @paulaston what was the size of the you reviewed
  • + 1
 *the bike
  • + 1
 I got this XL
  • + 4
 Freerides not dead!!
  • + 3
 Those suspension videos were my favorite yet, watched them 5 times haha.
  • + 3
 I like the frame. Looks great! I just can't get over the chain route.
  • + 1
 The chain line is the focus point of the whole frame.
  • + 1
 @paulaston nice review! Your sensations match a lot with kinematics:

mrblackmorescorner.blogspot.com.es/2017/07/commencal-supreme-sx-2018.html

Cheers
  • + 1
 Way ahead of ya on the saddle position. Best position for long drawn out climbs. Dropper gets it out of the way for descent. Nice one mate!
  • + 1
 I actually have one, since the day it was released. It doesn't pedal uphill as easy as my friends on low-travel trail bikes, but it destroys all of them on the descent.
  • + 2
 Somebody know if is possible put spring shock on this bike?
With a fox x2 spring will look sick
  • + 1
 it is, you can also order it with a rock shox super deluxe coil rct
  • + 2
 @scott-dl: sickk! Hahah thx bro!
  • + 2
 so when I go to the bike shop in like six months do I just say I need a chain thats like 6 feet long
  • + 1
 no, just 62".
  • + 1
 factor in buying two chains when the chain wears. How many links is that!? Not sure why the seat tube is so long, and no mention of how playful the bike is...
  • + 2
 The new SX is drop dead sexy Drool I like it more then the supreme DH!
  • + 1
 Seems like Commencal engineers forgot on botle cage...what a stupid mistake.
  • + 2
 If you want bottle cages get a Meta. I think this bike is aimed at a slightly different style of rider, someone who's packing some pads and a full face helmet anyways.
  • + 1
 Nice review--good explanation of the design's pros and cons. And I love "incoming geology"--nice turn of phrase.
  • + 0
 very cool bike -unfortunally i have no idea how to put it to good use around here. with only few rocks and roots around 120mm 29 works best
  • + 41
 Probably don't buy this bike then.
  • + 10
 @dingus: Yeah I agree with dingus. Its not enough travel. Youll want a FOES Hydro with a Marzocchi Super Monster T fork up front. That should get the job done.
  • + 3
 @chillrider199: obviously, but what color?
  • + 3
 @Sardine: shiny purple
  • + 3
 Get a 29" Spark and be happy.
  • + 1
 @dingus: yes i wont. but i actually wish it would be the perfect bike for around here. i love the high pivot, pullshock (or pulled linkage) system.
  • + 1
 @optimumnotmaximum: Id say get an Evil the Following or Evil the Calling. From design wise they comw closest to this. They are a little bit heavy. But cool bikes none the less!
  • + 2
 This bike is absolutley freaky quiet if you ever do get to try one.
  • + 1
 this is true
  • + 1
 @Rtknight get this it looks sick and it has fair good specs for the price and it has 180mm so perfect adelaide bike
  • + 2
 And no carbon.....music to my ears!!
  • + 1
 Is it just me? Or is that a fair amount of chain growth?
That derailleur arm moves a fair amount.
  • + 1
 Yes that's what the idler cog is for.
  • + 1
 Too bad Commencal doesn't actually make bikes in small sizes
  • + 1
 Your saddle position is wack, bro.
  • + 1
 @Rtknight or just get the frame
  • + 1
 That saddle angle is all I can look at
  • + 1
 @paul aston what's the chainstay length at sag?
  • + 1
 so perfect but that pfbb still has me looking
  • + 0
 Go back in 2005 nfa
  • + 2
 @mollow: i am in 2005 lol
  • + 0
 That seat angle really is ugly. But if you have to climb steep or long, give it a try
  • + 1
 So no bashguard included?
  • + 2
 Verbier looking dusty!
  • + 1
 Super Deluxe - so silly name for a fork. So chinese.
  • + 1
 ohh dear
  • + 0
 It's got moto foam so I'm up for it
  • + 0
 man i should of garbed my popcorn to!
  • + 1
 looks sweet!
  • + 0
 what an ugly bike!
  • - 2
 "Price: €3699 / $3699 USD"

Europeans get screwed again?
  • + 3
 EU price includes tax, US doesn't EU price is actually about €200 cheaper before tax.
  • + 2
 @Patrick9-32: Unless you live in a State that doesn't charge sales tax. Go ride some Oregon gems.
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32: Tax in Europe is usually around 20% depending on country, can be as high as 25% so its actually over 600 eur in tax
  • + 1
 @maglor: $3699USD in Euro = €3154.66
€3699 - 20% = €3082.5

So it is actually only €70 cheaper in Europe, that basically accounts for shipping to the US so the price is fairly identical.
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