Cube Global Squad Withdraws from Lousa World Cups due to Rising COVID Cases

Oct 23, 2020
by James Smurthwaite  
Max Hartenstern

The Cube Global Squad has this morning announced it will not be participating in the Lousa World Cups due to the rising local cases of COVID-19.

Portugal is currently recording its highest ever levels of COVID cases and has entered a 'State of Calamity' to try and combat the spread of the disease. Yesterday it stepped up its efforts in fighting the disease and introduced partial lockdowns in the Felgueiras, Lousada, and Pacos de Ferreira municipalities that are located around 150km (90 miles) north of Lousa.

The team apparently made the decision in Maribor and it means that Phil Atwill, Gaetan Vige, Max Hartenstern and their mechanics and team staff will not be making the trip over to Portugal for racing next weekend. The team's statement read:

bigquotesDue to the current sharp rise in corona infections throughout Europe, we do not want to expose any of our team members to this unpredictable situation against their will.

In Maribor we have made arrangements with mechanics and athletes and decided not to participate in the upcoming World Cup in Lousa.


Regions in Article
Lousã


169 Comments

  • 127 25
 Wise and responsible. Stay safe Cube.
  • 42 18
 Go and look at the latest Wyn TV. Didn't look like one of their riders was too concerned about staying safe.
  • 11 28
flag jclnv (Oct 23, 2020 at 8:19) (Below Threshold)
 Yes you wouldn’t want to waste all that time going to the event and having to withdraw due to a false positive diagnosis.
  • 5 6
 @jclnv: didn't take long to find the first idiot, and won't take long to find the next
  • 3 9
flag YoKev (Oct 23, 2020 at 23:28) (Below Threshold)
 @commental:
I think what they really meant was " uh, the situation in Portugal has presented us with an opportunity to save face, by using it as an excuse to stay home and save the money since we weren't planning on being competitive anyway'
  • 1 0
 Seems like they changed their minds - They are on site and on the startlist!
  • 92 9
 I’m of the controversial opinion this should go ahead. As has been said this won’t go away anytime soon so we have to mitigate risk and to an extent, get on with things. Other sports are making a much better job of this than cycling and I’m sad to say DH seems to be about the worst when it comes to coping with this.

An outdoor non contact sport with natural team bubbles, surely effective testing could mitigate much of the risk unlike the racing it’s self that is incredibley dangerous. Before anyone states what about the riders grand parents when they get home, we’ll elite sports people and their teams have responsibilities that come with there status so they should act responsibly during the events and adhere to pre and post testing as they would with all the drug stuff.

Of course there is all the support teams and TV etc but if rules are adhered too and effective testing takes place then I can’t see how an outdoor event like this can’t take place safely.

We’re not getting rid of this anytime soon so the more we learn to live with and manage the virus the better.

Of course no one should be forced to attend but I hope one or 2 fringe teams don’t cause the whole event to get canned.
  • 51 36
 I agree 100% we need to learn to live with the virus. Even after a vaccine is made covid will not go away, the flu and other viruses are still very much around. Also in the future when we have a vaccine if it's like the flu vaccine we will misjudge the strain every few years,what then? Cancel everything again and people will just have to get used to loosing whole years of their lives.
Also hot take that will piss many people off, if you are under 60 and healthy this isn't very leathal. Protect elderly and immunocompromised people but young healthy people should still be allowed to live their lives
  • 37 71
flag matadorCE (Oct 23, 2020 at 4:53) (Below Threshold)
 @grundletroll: appropriate screen name for spreading misinformation. I'm sure your Fuhrer Trump will be proud.
  • 53 36
 @grundletroll:
Sorry man I am over 60 but all my riding buddies are much younger, and they dont care too much. How am I go to live with the fact, that sooner or later I will get the virus from them (if not elsewhere) and eventually die or will be a cripple for the rest of my life?
How do you want to protect vulnerable people from others - lock them away?
This is not the flu, and not the plague.
It is a highly contigeous pandemic virus, and it is so dangerous, because many younger people dont show any symptoms.
  • 54 16
 @cxfahrer: Yes. Unfortunately you have conditions that mean you need to take extra precautions (up to and including self-isolating). You can't force other people to behave in a way you deem suitable. You are an adult and should behave accordingly.
  • 9 38
flag cxfahrer (Oct 23, 2020 at 5:18) (Below Threshold)
 @SmashySmashy:
Well that may be a good option in Kabul - not forcing other people to behave
  • 13 0
 @cxfahrer:

Well possibly avoid riding with your younger friends for the time being. I love going to the local pub but have been once with Friends this year and sat outside.

Solitary riding during the first lockdown was quite enjoyable but I enjoy that anyway - I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea but there are a few things we can do to mitigate obvious risk.
  • 33 11
 Great comments. I will take it a step further in that while there are segments of our global community at risk, this virus is relatively benign for the VAST majority who contract it. Terrible personal anecdotes aside, and believe me, I am sympathetic to anyone who has lost someone close to them, there is enough evidence out there to support the fact that this is not dangerous to most people. Shuttering the world for a virus that over 99%. of the people recover from does not make sense at this point. Especially when we are adversely affecting health in so many other ways. As stated here by @jemscott, cycling, like golf and other individual outdoor sports, should be encouraged and allowed with proper protocols. Wear your masks, wash your hands, and let them race if they so choose!
  • 13 17
flag togood2die (Oct 23, 2020 at 6:47) (Below Threshold)
 @cxfahrer: Narrator: This is in fact a close cousin to the flu and health officials have NO WAY to discern symptomology of the "flu" from this current iteration of virus... of which the flu is its own strain or strains. Testing of course gives definition to the symptoms one might have, but is (as in my case) only telling people they had it and nothing more.

So. If you're healthy, I'd say take precautions but live your life. Highly contagious? Sure. Not all that deadly, though, if you run the numbers.
  • 52 23
 It's sad and depressing to see Pinkbike become yet another focal point to spread misinformation. Fact is, this thing is much, much, muuuuuch more deadly than the flu. 220,000 dead Americans can speak to that (and that's with unprecedented mitigation efforts, which unfortunately were still way insufficient). Have we all forgotten the overwhelmed Intensive Care units on New York, Bologna, Madrid and other hot spots? The mobile freezers brought in to store the dead bodies that overwhelmed the mortuaries?

And even for those under 60, even if it's not quite as deadly, there are now hundreds of thousands of people with persistent symptoms who are known as "long haulers". Read up on how this thing has ruined their lives. Fitness gone. Brain alacrity, gone. Irregular heart beat, etc. Stop saying it's like the flu. It's not the flu. Just shut up and listen to the experts that actually know what they're talking about.
www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173
  • 24 22
 @teenwolf: "not dangerous to most people". I am guessing you are not counting the 9,862 deaths in Canada or the 223,000 deaths in the USA. This is very much "dangerous" to everyone. The issue with this virus is that people do not think that it affects them. A recent Harvard study found that among 3,222 young adults hospitalized with Covid-19, 88 died — about 2.7 percent. One in five required intensive care, and one in 10 needed a ventilator to assist with breathing. 2.7% may seem a low percentage but if I was in a room with 99 other people and someone said they were going to randomly kill 2-3 people, I would be pretty worried about my life.
  • 24 5
 @Cmolway: those stats don’t add up at all, your talking a percentage of hospitalisation not a percentage of total cases which considering most young people are asymptomatic is possibly vast. What exactly was the demographic of that sample and was there underlying health conditions? Young people can be obese, diabetic, have liver or kidney disease or lung conditions like cystic fibrosis. To state COVID will kill 3 in a 100 young people is factually incorrect.
  • 14 5
 @Cmolway: that’s some bold cherry picking of data to draw a rather drastic conclusion
  • 13 8
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: This winter will be a reality check on the doubters. What's crazy to me is that we are relatively close to a vaccine and yet people say "is time to get back to normal". No, that actually hurts the economy in the long run, and takes more lives, as we have seen. You take precautions until there is a vaccine, then get back to normal.
  • 11 27
flag togood2die (Oct 23, 2020 at 8:16) (Below Threshold)
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Drink up the Kool-Aid, baby, you look really thirsty for it. Overwhelmed hive city ICUs? Oh, that's shocking! Imagine a megalopolis like NYC having an outbreak, what do you think is going to happen?
Dude... We can see the numbers and we can do math. The death rate is no more significant in terms of per capita rates than the previous seasons' flus, and the only reason there are more dead is because there are more infected, ergo our concern about spread (r0).
I've read Osterhom. I've read Fauci. I read the CDC's own report abstracts and then dig in later when I have more time. I've seen the data and seen the breakdowns.
Stop. We're not bowing down and we're not coming to heel anymore.
Enough slavery, people.

P.S. How many long-haulers have other conditions? Wacky how that's what really sets this apart, the fact that it attacks those ALREADY WEAK to invasions.
  • 6 8
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: This is a novel virus. We have a vaccine for the flu, which many of the most vulnerable take each year. The death rates can't really be compared like that, because without the vaccine many more would die of flu each year. As far as I'm aware the 2nd wave isn't resulting in a fraction of the deaths that occurred during the first too. And flu does lead to long-term effects such as those you described. I myself had bouts of irregular heartbeat, chronic fatigue and vertigo for a couple of years after a bad flu almost 10 years ago. I still get the odd resurgance of vertigo now and then. It happens.
@teenwolf: It's your choice whether to worry about your life under those circumstances, but the data indicates your odds of surviving a brush with covid without issue are exceedingly positive. You're not worried about nothing, but your belief it's that much more dangerous than it really is suggests perhaps your allowing your fear to overwhelm your better judgement.
  • 7 2
 @SmashySmashy: That's exactly the point. It's a novel virus whose treatments and vaccines and long term impacts we're only starting to figure out. Which why it makes sense to be cautious now, while the medicine catches up to it. The point isn't to stop living your life, it's to make necessary adjustment and do good public health measures precisely so we can go on living our lives. Countries that got a handle on it like New Zealand, Australia and South Korea are able to live their life much more freely right now than much of Europe and North America who didn't bother to do what needed to be done, or relaxed too much after getting things under control.
  • 12 4
 @togood2die: the stupid hurts. Yes the mortality rates are higher. No it doesn't just effect the cities. Yes rural hospitals are getting overwhelmed right this minute.
www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/22/926264615/covid-19-surges-in-rural-communities-overwhelming-some-local-hospitals

Just stop the stupid. What slavery? Basic public health measures? What parallel universe do you live in?
  • 7 15
flag jclnv (Oct 23, 2020 at 8:43) (Below Threshold)
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Actually influenza is currently killing more people in most nations than C-19. The excess death numbers for C-19 have not been at the WHO’s pandemic level since May. Death certificates stating C-19 as cause of death have been vastly inflated in every nation. For example, the Italian Health minister stated that only 12% of deaths that occurred there earlier in the year were directly caused by C-19. If your fear was justified, Sweden would currently have hundreds of thousands of deaths. Fortunately they’re below the five year death average and according to their chief health scientist (and the majority of virologists and epidemiologists) the virus is largely on its way out as the typical viral 20% population immunity has been reached.

The so called long hauler issue is more complex. Numerous world level athletes have contracted the virus, recovered, and gone back to competition with no adverse effects. What we don’t know about many of these long hauler patents is what were their prior conditions? Were they already compromised and the virus brought the issues to the fore by compromising their immune systems?

Like the trillions of other viruses inside the human body. Reactions seem to be down to the individual immune response. It’s an interesting issue.
  • 9 7
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Do you work for Gavi lol

How many mutations of C-19 are there? Which one is the vaccine you’re going to take effective for?

The vaccine will be as useless as the influenza vaccine.
  • 6 5
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Not sure about that. New Zealand, for example, may have prevented that initial C-19 spike that all countries had, but by locking themselves off from the world they’ve limited viral exposure to the rest of the world and many virologists think their excess death numbers will be higher averaged over the coming year than those with 2020 C-19 spikes.

Humans have never been able to control viral outbreaks. If we really wanted to try to the best option we had was to prevent international travel from China when the WHO first learned of the virus. Interestingly they took the CCP’s word for it that the virus was noncommunicable between humans and for two weeks the virus was able to spread unchecked around the world.
  • 6 7
 @DoubleCrownAddict: The most recent vaccine for the relatively strong 2009 H1N1 virus is only 30-40% effective. That means in a country of 334 MILLION people (USA), that means 200,400,00 (200 MILLION PEOPLE) in the US would have to fend off H1N1 daily using their immune syste, food & lifestyle choices & underlying genetic or self induced health conditions
THAT IS ONLY IF EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN TAKES THE H1N1 VACCINE, which also wears off as our immune system reset every few months to face new challenges and clear out antibodies.

BUT....334 Million US citizens don't take the vaccine. Not only that, if every citizen did, ONLY 133,600,000 people would develop antibodies in response to "weakened or dead H1N1 cells". Our immune systems are more intelligent than to be tricked by dead or weak virus cells and ignore the immunization attempt as a false alarm.

So maybe your answer is to hide until a vaccine can be manufactured in enough volume to adminster to those at risk or over 65. Guess what, seniors have what is known as "WANING IMMUNE RESPONSE". Their bodies literally ignore vaccinations. The best case is a DOUBLE DOSE for anyone over 60 to try to scare their bodies into reacting to a vaccination.

So, no...this virus is not going away. A vaccination will not cure us. Our bodies, our health (whether good or bad from self induction or genetics) will decide everything. At one point, the world was divided enough to keep us separate. But there are too many people and our lives are too mobile to even slow a bug down.

Treat others with respect. Care for those who get it. Educate those at risk of it.

But 3 racers and their mechanics who already traveled a few thousand miles to Maribor and are in elite health....not a concern. Not going to help or hurt. If anything, they might get to take a modified straing of Mariborian coronavirus back home to their friends and family elsewhere. Which is what viruses do.
  • 5 6
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: You canot point to localised outbreaks in some small, rural hospitals to justify national lockdowns. Besides, the lockdowns were never the cautious approach. And you know that because there are no reasonable options to escalate to after them.
Also, countries like Australia, New Zealand etc. may have curtailed the advance of the virus within their borders, but their methods are unsustainable; All it takes is 1 case to slip through and they're back to square one, so they'll need to keep it up until the virus subsides or a vaccine is developed, neither of which is under their control. They may also have done irrepairable harm to their image as 1st world democracies in the process with their draconian tactics and assaults on innocent citizens.
Whereas countries that dealt effectively with the virus are better set up going forward from this point.
  • 1 0
 @togood2die: I don't know the statistics, but if what you say is true, and considering this is the best we could achieve with the whole world being in lockdown and most countries putting enormous resources to halt the spread, it's pretty terrifying.
"The death rate is no more significant in terms of per capita rates than the previous seasons' flus"
  • 10 7
 @jclnv: I am aware that you are a science denier because I remember that you don't even acknowledge basic facts like humans causing climate change. But at least do a simple Google search before you post dangerous, ignorant conspiracy theories that make you look worse thanTrump. C 19 actually has a very low mutation potential, so one vaccine could likely be enough:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.deccanchronicle.com/amp/nation/in-other-news/221020/vaccine-to-provide-longer-immunity.html

What's dangerous about covid is that it spreads easier than the regular flu virus, most likely through the air. Masks in public and hand washing are the most important factors, once one person in a household gets it, it's hard for the others to avoid.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/a-second-key-used-by-sars-cov-2-to-enter-cells-could-explain-why-it-s-so-infectious/amp


But some science doubters who are exposed to and believe bad information doubt the effectiveness of masks, so everything just keeps getting worse and it keeps spreading. These are typically the same people who are saying covid will mutate, vaccine won't be effective, etc. These people seem to be the #1 reason the problem is growing instead of being controlled like it has in countries where it is taken more seriously.
  • 6 0
 @jclnv: I’m not going to get drawn into the COVID discussion, but you are incorrect when claiming that Sweden would have hundreds of thousand deaths at the moment. We would be shrinking as a population, if that were the case. We are only 10 million. In a bad flue season we have 4 to 5 thousand dead, and in a good year only 1000. Also, positive COVID numbers are going up, not down, which would be the case if the virus is on its way out.
  • 3 5
 @mitochris: Okay so if we’re looking at 3.4% higher mortality rate than influenza it would be what? Thirty thousand dead from C-19? You’re currently just over a bad influenza season numbers wise. That’s totally incompatible with the data most countries are basing policy on.

Mostly useless PCR testing is increasing in every country. Funny enough positive (false positives?) numbers are increasing to.
  • 3 4
 @jclnv: ok now think what the numbers would be without lockdown and any other measures.
  • 3 1
 @mitochris: I think he meant that the motivation to implement lockdowns was the fear of an uncontrolled spread of the virus. And since the Swedish government didn't enforce strict lockdown protocols, and didn't experience a catastrophic surge in cases or deaths (certainly no worse than other nations that did) it serves as a useful example as to how the lockdowns were both unnecessary and ineffective. Never has so much been sacrificed for so little gain. The are modern day maginot lines.
  • 6 0
 @jclnv: @SmashySmashy: as said earlier, I’m not going to get into the COVID discussion. In General, infections come in waves, and the Swedish behaviour during the summer surely helped to keep numbers down We will see what will happen now in the winter.
The clinical tests will have a very low false positive rate, and the rate will be a fixed percentage of tests taken. The number of tests performed per week have been quite stable here, but positive numbers are nevertheless increasing, which indicates increased prevalence.
Clearly, this is a disease that is defined and we know what causes it, we can test for it, and it is new.
We can debate how to deal/respond to it, but let’s do it civilised.
  • 3 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Do you know what an epic fail is? It's when you extol the virtues of science... and the link to speculative articles from popular-science magazines.
Hint for future reference: If the links to the articles (or their headlines) contain words like 'might' or 'could', then it's not science, and it's likely they're after a boost in ad revenue from gullible, ill-informed hacks such as yourself.
  • 3 1
 @mitochris: I wasn't trying to drag you into this, I respect your wish to remain apart. I was just clarifying what I thought was a misunderstanding. Happy trails.
  • 2 1
 @SmashySmashy: Sounds like you didn't read the articles? If you have specific criticism, state it. Otherwise you are wasting time for both of us.
  • 3 0
 @Slabrung: Countries did nothing to prevent the vulnerable from from infection. In some cases they seemed to have purposefully allowed the virus to spread into elderly care homes (UK/NewYork). You could argue that the at risk that died were the people who would have died regardless of policy meaning that the numbers may have not differed too much.

Anyway over the coming years, the worse case numbers will pale in comparison to delayed cancer screenings etc.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Did you read the articles? It's there in my post. Those articles are speculative; they're the product of someone's opinion, not hard evidence. The data doesn't yet support their claims. Science is based on reproducable fact.
  • 1 2
 @SmashySmashy: This is speculative?

"Researchers from the Technical University of Munich in Germany and the University of Helsinki in Finland led a study that discovered a receptor called neuropilin-1 gives the novel coronavirus a leg-up in infecting our tissues.
This particular protein is relatively abundant on cells lining the nasal cavity, making it a piece of cake for the virus to establish a home inside our bodies, raise a virus family, and then spread to a new host.
Earlier this year it was discovered that a receptor called angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) helps the coronavirus bind to the surface of cells, while an enzyme called Type II transmembrane serine protease (TMPRSS2) is crucial for it gaining entry.
This kind of molecular lock-picking does a good job of explaining why both SARS coronaviruses wreak havoc throughout a range of tissues in our bodies, from the lining of our lungs to our digestive tract."

That's called scientific discovery.

As for the other article, covid 19 has not mutated to date. So no speculation there either.
  • 1 0
 @grundletroll: ...then go visit their parents for xmas
  • 1 1
 @jclnv: they did a lot - lockdowns, mandatory face masks, all the public hygiene related regulations and campaigns like hand washing, disinfectant in shops - there was lots of such measures, at least in my country. When these measures have been relaxed the number of cases spiked sharply.
  • 6 0
 @jclnv: You mentioned elderly care homes, senior centers and assisted living facilities. I'm not aiming at any of your content, just wanting to mention something to consider for everyone.

We harp on people dying in these facilities from Covid exposure, but we fail to recognize what any of us with a close relative (and I mean parent or spouse) know all too well that have had to bury a family member after they stayed in one of those places.
The most cruel thing we've done in this world is "shelter" our seniors from love, embrace, conversation, hugs, kisses, hand holding for 2 hours, 4 hours, 8 hours as they suffer the fate of time alone.
I buried my mother a few years ago. I stood at her side after 13 months of inoperable cancer the moment she took her last breath. To have that time ripped away from here....to think of her dying alone or even looking at me through a window at 9:32pm on September 17th, 3 days before my birthday, 6 days before my fathers...it's unfathomable.

My mother knew she was dying. She would never have wanted to sit locked away, starved of care, love, attention, conversation and warmth. Since February, we have done an utter disgrace and disservice to everyone who has raised us to be better by locking them away like this. To 'protect the dying' from death by denying them love is preposterous.

Hold those you love close, accept that they need you...not your absence. To drag this out is inhumane under the narcissistic pretense that we can control what's happening is sad.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:
Where in that quote (or even the article) does it support your claim the virus is transmitted 'most likely through the air'?

Cov19 has mutated multiple times, it just hasn't deviated much from the original strain so far:
phys.org/news/2020-08-strains-sars-cov-.html
That doesn't mean it won't in future though- it's mutation rate is only low relative to other diseases like the flu, which definitely does have markedly different strains. So it may only be a matter of time...
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: The part about ACE2 is vital in understanding why it's been successful replicating across the globe and that has to do with beta blockers & ACE inhibitors.

Beta Blockers are prescribed the world over for heart issues (the majority self inflicted via diet or bad genetic breeding). Beta Blockers cause the body to produce excess amounts of the B protein that Covid-19 uses to replicate. So not only does bad self induced health compound your ability to fight off the virus, the drug people use to continue to eat garbage and toxify their bodies....that drug helps your body feed the virus.

One key component to dealing with this virus has been that piece of knowledge. In the beginning, it floored people on beta blockers. Now, doctors know to address it, advise their patients on them to take action and although the number of "positive tests per 1000" is going up indicating spread, the "deaths per 1000" is not. That reflects that the medical field understands better how not to kill some people and how to be proactive with others.
  • 2 1
 @blowmyfuse: Very well said.
  • 3 0
 I would agree with your stance in theory, but you assume that every person is rational and going to behave in a responsible way. Basically the error you make is thinking everyone is going to be a responsible adult.
  • 3 0
 @SmashySmashy: That it can transmitted through the air should be common knowledge to anybody paying attention. From the cdc:


Respiratory viruses are transmitted in multiple ways
Infections with respiratory viruses are principally transmitted through three modes: contact, droplet, and airborne.

Contact transmission is infection spread through direct contact with an infectious person (e.g., touching during a handshake) or with an article or surface that has become contaminated. The latter is sometimes referred to as “fomite transmission.”

Droplet transmission is infection spread through exposure to virus-containing respiratory droplets (i.e., larger and smaller droplets and particles) exhaled by an infectious person. Transmission is most likely to occur when someone is close to the infectious person, generally within about 6 feet.

Airborne transmission is infection spread through exposure to those virus-containing respiratory droplets comprised of smaller droplets and particles that can remain suspended in the air over long distances (usually greater than 6 feet) and time (typically hours).


www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html
  • 1 0
 @Cmolway: yes the numbers look bad if that is all you look at, and as I said I sympathize with anyone who has lost someone, but there is a preponderance of evidence to suggest this is not that deadly statistically. Anwhile it may appear callous to look at so many deaths as merely a statistic, one must look past basic numbers to think of the damage that the response is causing, both on individual’s physical and mental health as well as the grave consequences to world economies. The number of deaths world wide is comparable to many common viruses and diseases we deal with as a species, and it pales in comparison to many. Yes, it requires people buying in to do the basics (masks, avoid crowds, wash hands) but ultimately the consequences of shutting the world down (again) will be a much larger toll...but to each their own. Confirmation bias will lead us all to the statistics we prefer, including me. But it is lazy to just look at numbers and make declarations on that. There is much more out there....from viable sources and prominent positions...
  • 1 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: since when does an opinion on how to proceed count as misinformation? It's absolutely ok to discuss whether events within mountainbiking should go ahead or not. And if so what steps should be taken to manage risks.
  • 3 0
 @SmashySmashy : Interesting perspective. Oceanic methods and measures unsustainable? Social distancing, promoted and widespread testing, extensive contact tracing and tracking of outbreaks, implemented preventative measures to support safer ongoing social and economic activity.

Both countries continually have new cases that are quickly identified and controlled to prevent further spread. Evidence is indicating that keeping a tight check and prevention of virus spread has less economic impact than pushing for normal business activity and subsequent impacts of widespread infection.

Some may consider implemented measures draconian and an assault on the individual, however all have been within legislated and constitutional bounds. I believe Australia and New Zealand fall with-in the group of liberal democracies where there is higher social contract to support the vulnerable and society as a whole.

What is the definition of effectively dealing with the virus for a better future?
  • 3 2
 @cxfahrer: 99.8% of the population suffering because there is a small chance the 0.2% could die is moronic.
Old people die, always have always will, you cannot abolish death.
  • 2 1
 @Slabrung: they would be pretty much exactly the same.
  • 4 1
 @teenwolf: we will not see another lockdown unless things get really bad. The problem economically is that people will not go out in large numbers unless the virus is brought under control. Look at the travel industry as an example. Flights are open for business, but travelers are not showing up in enough numbers to sustain the industry. Restaurants face the same fate.

If things are left wide open people will not wear masks (this has already been proven multiple times), social distance, etc. Virus numbers will jump significantly and a large portion of the people that are going out right now will stay home again. It is a no win situation economically. Either limit interactions, save lives, cause an economic impact or open interactions, cost lives, cause an economic impact.

BTW this is an exact replay of the 1918 Spanish Flu and people's reactions. Even in 1918 there were anti mask leagues, people claiming that the government would use those expanded powers forever, etc, etc, etc.
  • 1 0
 @grundletroll: the reason the flu and the cold don't go away is because both of those viruses mutate and change every year, covid takes longer to change (apparently, i'm not a scientist so i could be wrong)
  • 1 0
 @powermutant: We're unlikely to settle this here as we're not taking about the same things. Time will tell which perspective proves more accurate though. For my part I predict the need for further reactive lockdown measures (national and regional) in both countries as they approach winter, if not sooner and escalating violence in Oz on both sides (police and protestors); They'll do similarly for Oz what the BLM riots have done for the US regarding how outsiders perceive personal safety and the rule of law.
  • 5 0
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: Is it? As I have said before here, the flu has a vaccine and about 140 million people last year got it with, on the low end, 50k that died from it. If only 10 million were vaccinated, what would the death toll be? Why doesnt anyone take that into consideration? You cant compare how deadly this virus is compared to the flu when there is a vaccine for the flu. Its not apples to apples.
  • 2 2
 @withdignityifnotalacrity: I agree with largely everything you said. Except, I live in Australia (Melbourne), I've lost count of how long we've been locked down for, but it's been months. Up until last week we could leave the house for 1 hour a day, within a 5km radius, with 1 other person, mandatory masks at ALL times and a curfew of 9pm. Today the police were authorised to use drones to look into peoples backyards for "illegal gatherings". Many, many businesses have shut down. If you're lucky enough to still have your job, you need a permit to travel to work. I could write a much longer list of restrictions, but you get the idea.
For our state to open back up to a semblance of normality, we need to have case numbers of 0 (zero) for 2 weeks straight. We've been averaging below 10 for the past week, but it's slowly creeping up, so our hopes of seeing family/friends for Christmas are being dashed.
We did get a handle on cases numbers, no question, we all dug deep and made sacrifices. We've saved a great many people from this potentially lethal virus, but we are most certainly not living freely, not even close.
  • 3 2
 @ajayflex: australia sounds like a totalitarian prison state, if I lived their I'd be making plans to move out the country as soon as I was allowed.... Which sounds like never
  • 3 0
 @grundletroll: haha, well we're allowed to express our dissatisfaction with the government without being shot, so it's not quite that bad, but it's not pleasant.

I should add, the rest of the country is not in nearly as much of a lock down as Melbourne, we're coping the brunt of it down here.
  • 1 0
 @grundletroll: like Snoop, Cher, Goldberg, Schumar, Dunham, Lopez etc etc etc..?
Easy statement to make but very, very rarely ever happens. As they say, talk is cheap. Beer
  • 3 0
 @b45her: There seems to be a fundamental failure in understanding that the problems this virus/pandemic causes are systemic and not individual. Lots of comments here seeing the risk as posed to an individual, i,e, most who get it will recover, the real problem is how it impacts systems like your economy/health services.

These impacts will not go away (and will get worse) with ending lockdowns and removing other restrictions, please stop seeing this as 99.8% will be fine. Even if that was the case you end up with enormous amounts of pressure on health services, overflowing hospitals, people staying in and not spending money, businesses going bust,collapsing economy, total lack of other health services for other diseases etc (see N Italy or New York in spring).

It's not about whether most people will be fine (the majority of 80 year olds that catch it will recover), it's about the systemic effects that having this thing moving through the population can and will cause and ameliorating the impact of those effects. Temporarily closing down society to temper the spread and reduce the damage long-term is currently the only game in town until better solutions are developed or even if they are not.

I acknowledge that this does not come without cost, however there is no way forward from here without significant damage, we must try to pick the route with the least damage.
  • 1 2
 @GrandMasterOrge: The whole protect the NHS claim is untrue, even at the busiest point of the initial outbreak the welsh NHS got to 60% capacity, NONE of the field hospitals were needed and only 6 concurrent patients used them and they were just there for the sake of it.
All this is leading to is,
removing privacy laws
huge tax increases
and the privatisation of the NHS.
the clowns at imperial college London need to be criminally charged for the blatant miss information they are publishing.
  • 1 1
 @b45her: The biggest damage to all is coming at 2021 harvest time of foods in the Northern Hemisphere. When people have not the money to sew seeds, grow crops and feed families...the food pressure on the entire world is what will be our biggest burden.

People die. Food MUST grow. We all seem to forget that without it, anything else of value is nothing.
  • 52 13
 2020 is a write off. Cancel the race, let everyone chill out. Come back and crush 2021
  • 16 5
 People have been saying this since march. Yet it never seems to actually happen ... It should.
  • 48 4
 What happens if 2021 is fkd too?

2020 is a write off but there seems to be a little too much optimism that it'll all be over in 2021.
  • 18 2
 @Ktron: Yeah, it's not like on the 31st of December at 23:59 the virus dies and everyone goes back to normal. We will be feeling the effects of this pandemic for a long time, and I imagine large scale public events still wont go ahead until the middle of next year at the earliest. It's the end of October now and there are no large scale vaccination programs, which is really what is needed to wipe this out, even if a viable vaccine does become available this year how long will it take to immunise the number of people needed to start seeing a significant drop in cases?
  • 7 0
 No, because then it will be the third wave and so on. Covid-19 is suddenly going top disappear on 1/1/21. Numerous events of all kinds are conducted safely under pandemic conditions.
  • 4 4
 @melonhead1145: plague lasted 35 years
  • 2 1
 Best case scenario when this all started is the virus would just die out on its own eventually - doesn't look like that is going to happen.
  • 10 13
 It is NEVER going away... So, either get used to "there's this virus thing and chances are (96% here) you won't die from it" or sit in your houses forever.

I do not at all understand this obsession with and absolute fear of something that is a natural part of the world's continuing biology.
  • 7 4
 @togood2die: Even I think that's pretty reductive and crass. No one in their right mind would trivialize an untimely death in such a manner, but imagine dying before your time suffering alone and gasping for breath as seems to happen to some people with covid. Spare a thought for those left behind who will never know for sure whether their loved ones endured that kind of discomfort and fear.
  • 32 22
 sensible. dude at work, last week his family got back from holiday.... with symptoms. So he goes out on the piss... an been self isolating this week. 2 more blokes self isolating next week. We're definitely heading into a worse second wave in a few weeks, as predicted Sad but true, Idiots are spreading this shit
  • 62 31
 Idiots are not spreading it, the virus is spreading like every pandemic before. It goes in waves, usually three and lasts between 18-24 months. The only way out of it quicker is a vaccine otherwise nature does it's thing like it always has. People need to stop blaming others and causing division, hate, and fear
  • 15 7
 @grundletroll: thanks for being rational.
  • 39 3
 @grundletroll: so,
dude knows he's been exposed to somebody that has the virus an then goes out drinking.... while he's supposed to be self isolating
Not really sensible behaviour during a pandemic?
  • 22 6
 @grundletroll: But until that vaccine is found, is it too much to ask people to behave responsibly and stop helping nature kill people that are susceptible and more vulnerable than others?

Now that one team has pulled out, I suspect many will follow and the inevitable will happen. Let’s be grateful we at least got to see some racing.
  • 10 12
 @nojzilla: no that's not responsible and he's and he's an ass but I wouldn't say the whole reason it's spreading is because people like him. He's probably an outline among the majority of people. Also I honestly had no idea having a piss means drinking, seems kinda gross
  • 6 6
 @MaN-oF-STeEL: But until that vaccine is identified, tested, trialed sufficiently and the long-term effects are understood before it is manufactured and distributed globally, is it too much to ask governments to behave responsibly and stop helping nature kill people that are susceptible and more vulnerable than others by focusing on the most susceptible to serious illness like people in hospitals, retirement homes and those in care, instead of trying to control many times that the number of individuals, while suspending or otherwise destroying their lives and livelihoods?
There, that's better.

@grundletroll: It's 'going on the piss', not 'going for a piss'. Visit Ireland and see just how many euphemisms (and ways!) there are for getting wasted.
  • 9 0
 @grundletroll:
lost in translation :'D
the great British language. Going for a piss, pretty obvious but the slang of 'pissed' here is drunk not angry as in the U.S. So 'out on the piss' is a drinking sesh, pub crawl.
Having to self isolate here means staying indoors for two weeks if a person or the household have symptoms...
So dude wanted the two weeks off work but went out with others from the same shop floor at weekend before he told anyone. So now we have two others self isolating a week later, that's a week of those two being at work potentially infecting others. Only found this out today. So fingers X'ed eh?
I never intended to say its the whole reason this virus is spreading but, behaviours like this and the deniers (that wasnt as bad as the U.S here but is becoming with the second wave 'tier' regulations) is definitely going to hinder controls put in place to fight this thing
  • 6 0
 @MaN-oF-STeEL: The problem i see at the moment is, that in most countries " people are not asked to behave responsibly" - It is tried to accomplish responsibility via fear and thats a not very sustainable long term strategy. It leads to people beeing sick of the rules and breaking them. In my opinion we have to admit, that the pandemic will not be over in a couple of months and react accordingly.
  • 16 2
 @nojzilla: fun facts it seems all world politicians are ignoring recently the WHO said lockdowns and shutdowns should be an absolute last resort to slow the virus and not a method to stop it. they say shutdowns lead to massive increase in poverty, preventable disease death and death of despair (suicide). Government where all for listening to the WHO before but now suddenly they have gone deaf to that particular piece of advice.
  • 7 6
 @SmashySmashy: “People in hospital” are just people until they get sick and find themselves in hospital because they caught the virus (thanks to our friend in the earlier comment). People in the care settings you describe generally don’t move around in communities (or go on holiday) therefore it’s pointless to target efforts towards them in attempts to stop the spread of the virus. I am saddened by the loss of jobs and income over the last few months, I truly am. My own income has has taken a massive dive, however, loss of life trumps loss of livelihood mate - any day.
  • 5 5
 @grundletroll: I trust the WHO as far as I could throw them. MASSIVE political bias themselves so they don't upset the countries, corporations an organisations that fund them especially China. Even before this virus they've acted the same on many issues.
They might as well be just another form of bias media
  • 8 2
 @MaN-oF-STeEL: lose of livelihood has a direct correlation to lose of life as well. I believe what he meant by people in hospital wasn't people who caught the virus then ended up in the hospital (which is only roughly 1% of the infected) but people who are already unwell and stuck in the hospital with a serious condition. Those are the most vulnerable people, them and the elderly. Anyone under 60 and especially under 40 that is healthy shouldn't be worried about catching covid. If you do get infected take the isolation seriously and limit the spread but don't fear getting the virus yourself.
  • 4 1
 An also we have 'Long Covid' to throw into the mix... I havent heard any numbers on how many are suffering these after affects but, I'm very interested to know... seems like media an Gov are only interested in deaths over infection cases. Sure less than 0.01% (as of a few days ago on the radio) have died in the UK but, theres a pecentage of non fatal cases that are left with these symptoms, scarred lungs, heart problems from blood thickening.
As well as the mentioned economic depression suicides

I know I'm not going 'out on the piss' any time soon Wink
  • 5 3
 @MaN-oF-STeEL: It's overwhelmingly likely that covid patients that require hospitalization were residents in those institutions, or were vulnerable members of society. Protecting them as a priority, respecting good hygiene and reasonable social distancing protects everyone together, livelihoods and all. The lockdowns wouldn't be necessary if that simple idea was understood. Healthy individuals generally don't require hospitalization from covid, let alone die from it, so it's not so risky for those most capable to carry on with life.
  • 6 2
 @grundletroll: We have established that. That’s what the conversation is about. People who are fit and healthy (like the guy mentioned earlier - went on holiday, did not isolate.. etc..) not being responsible and therefore helping to spread the virus. Those that will suffer are those outside of the fit and healthy bracket.
You can’t concentrate your efforts (restrictions) on people that aren’t moving around and mixing (non vectors). The best way to protect those vulnerable people is to make sure that everyone else is being responsible. Bear in mind that all those vulnerable people you’re talking about are looked after by mostly young and fit healthcare workers that potentially can catch the virus from the idiots who don’t seem to want to be careful.
  • 2 0
 @SmashySmashy: That comment has my vote. I think we’re peaking the same language.
  • 3 3
 @MaN-oF-STeEL: Utter pish. That's exactly what should have been done. What's better- focus limited resources on 70-80 million, highly mobile 'vectors' or put them toward protecting the 1-1.5 million that don't move so much and have a highly-personal interest in staying safe. It's in their best interest to comply and it frees up the police (and nosey citizens) from ensuring people follow senseless, oppressive rules.
Those healthcare workers have jobs as such, so they have a higher duty of care to their patients. It's their (and their bosses) responsibility to ensure they stay covid-free and safe.
Whatever happened to accountability and common sense...
  • 1 3
 @MaN-oF-STeEL: I think we might have crossed wires somewhere. My bad.
  • 1 1
 @grundletroll: Logic. Doesn't play well in 2020. But you are correct!
  • 4 3
 @grundletroll:
Thank f*ck. At last someone speaking the truth.
It seems to me that’s governments don’t mind you dying of anything as long as it’s not f*cking COVID. Wise up people we’re all being lied too. Protect the vulnerable and everyone else just crack on.
  • 3 1
 @Shaunaydo: If we are being lied too, why shield the vulnerable? If you want to shield the vulnerable, you must think there is a Virus and therefore not being lied too.
  • 3 1
 Fact is if EVERYBODY wore a mask and socially distanced to the best of their ability the spread would be drastically reduced and we wouldn't be taking about lockdowns at all. In the US 20% of the population are responsible for 80% of the cases.
I work on an oilfield, we have 700 people that all share a camp and a single area to get food. The owner is strict about mask wearing and social distancing and there is hand sanitizer everywhere. The 700 people change out every 2 to four weeks offset so that there are 500 people a week flying into the camp. We have had 2 confirmed cases since this whole thing began, 2!!
Masks, distancing and hygiene works when everybody follows it 100%.
  • 1 0
 @catweasel: Lockdowns were implemented long before masks were mandated. The entire business reeks of panic. Ready. Fire. Aim.
Your experience isn't unusual btw. Most (nearly all in fact) of the people I know that I've spoken with don't know a single case personally. I myself know only 1. Caught the virus in hospital while being treated for life-threatening illness and subsequently passed away.
  • 3 0
 @SmashySmashy: missing my point, I do know people that have both had it and died of it. People I work with have had it at home, but people at work are not catching it there. This if despite the fact that we are in the worst possible situation for potential spread.
A nearby field of similar size had an outbreak of 16 cases. It was caused by one work group ignoring the rules. Not a single person outside of that work caught it despite flying in a plane, paying them in a corridor, attending in line for food etc in proximity to the infected because everybody was wearing masks 100% of the time.
Look at the outbreak at the Whitehouse where 1 person spread it to 35 in a matter of days despite regular testing but with no mask use. We had 30-40 cases from a single party at my local university.
As I said before if EVERYBODY followed simple guidance we significantly slow the spread and we can't live a semi normal life while doing it.
  • 2 0
 CAN live a semi normal life, dam auto correct
  • 14 1
 Dear Covid, I'm done with you. Please show yourself out, thanks.
  • 4 0
 Amen to that. Hope you are doing okay x
  • 11 3
 It's simply the Earth's way of controlling the infection of Humans it is currently suffering from.
2 cents
  • 5 0
 The Earth does indeed have a bad case of Hom0 Sapiens, but it will go away completely, one day.
  • 4 0
 Nature bats last.
  • 11 3
 likely the first of many team announcements
  • 6 0
 Ideally teams make the decision as soon as possible. It is a hard and tough decision but as long as you don't withdraw, people in Portugal are working hard to prepare to receive those teams as safely as possible. Of course it is a bummer for all the work that has been put in already, but it would be even more of a bummer for the work they put in now and you then withdraw last minute. Then again I trust the other teams are already thinking long and hard. Especially for athletes who've decided to retire after this event, I can imagine this must be a massive anti-climax. It is tough and I won't judge. Just whichever decision teams make, make it quick.
  • 7 1
 UCI should have organized double-run events like Maribor through the summer, and competition season would be finished by now.
  • 17 1
 Well it's always easy to say what one should have done afterwards. When the decisions were made, no one knew exactly how the summer with covid works out. In hindsight I should have invested in Tesla and Facebook 10 years ago
  • 2 7
flag zede (Oct 23, 2020 at 3:36) (Below Threshold)
 @bashhard: fb was invented like 15 years ago and Tesla is probably as old
  • 2 0
 @zede: What's your point? The shares skyrocketed for both of these companies in the last 10 years. No one knew that they would rise that much, which was exactly what my point is about. You can't fully predict the future
  • 3 9
flag zede (Oct 23, 2020 at 3:49) (Below Threshold)
 @bashhard: I was just pointing out your point wasn't so well made, whilst it was still understandable Smile

Regardless, everyone knew that covid pandemic would get out of control again soon, so UCI should have known too.
  • 6 2
 Cheers on that. Might seem like a regrettable decision, but due to the circumstances it's definitley the most sensible thing to do right now. More teams will likely follow.
  • 6 0
 my reason for avoiding crowded podiums too
  • 1 0
 Things in Lousã aren't that bad. Our main problems here in Portugal are in the main metropolitan areas (Lisbon and Porto) and on a very densely populated region north of Porto and also in large outbreaks appearing on elderly care houses.

The center region (where Lousã makes a very small part) is much better with less than 5 times the numbers of the north region and a third of the Lisbon numbers.
  • 2 0
 Would it be possible for all the trolls, arm chair experts, and political pundits to limit their comments, to the pinkbike academy? Kinda like the intellectual kiddie pool. No offense to actual children.
  • 11 7
 Understandable and responsible decision.
  • 8 4
 Regrettable, but a sensible choice.
  • 5 1
 hart felt decision
  • 2 1
 I wonder how much the costs are for an entire WC Team to pay al the required Covid-Tests. I mean if everybody Needs to get tested... that's quite a bill!
  • 10 0
 I can tell you that our team tests for Maribor cost almost 3000,- in total.
  • 3 0
 What a shame. Phil Atwill is already 'sick’
  • 2 0
 But will Danny Hart be joining the team next season?! Rob Warner says he's joinin a "Square" team...?
  • 3 0
 Pinkbike full of armchair virus managers. I salute you.
  • 7 4
 Wise decision.
  • 12 11
 I wish more people could break out of their cubes...I mean echo chambers....
  • 4 1
 Roni ain't no baloney.
  • 4 2
 Understandable, have a great day
  • 4 2
 Seems like the only smart and sensible choice.
  • 2 0
 Mmmmm iam yet to see all these packed out wards and crematoriums
  • 1 0
 Well Jordie from fox is already there, saw him there today riding is bike on a fire road
  • 3 1
 And so it begins...
  • 1 1
 first of many.
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