Dakotah Norton Unable to Race in Maribor World Cup Following Positive COVID Test

Aug 12, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  

Dakotah Norton will not be racing at the Maribor World Cup this year after he tested positive for COVID before his flight into Slovenia.

Dakotah was enjoying a successful start to his season with results including a ninth-place finish in Leogang and a win at the US National Championships early in July. Unfortunately he won't be able to show off his first Stars and Stripes sleeve or his 12th place overall number board this weekend as he was unable to board his flight. Thankfully Dakotah is not currently experiencing any symptoms of COVID and is hoping to be back for the World Championships that take place on 25-29 August.

bigquotesAs much as it devastates me to write this, I have to inform everyone that I won’t be making it to the Maribor World Cup. I was tested yesterday pre flight and it came back positive. I’m currently not experiencing any symptoms and feel fine other than being bummed I’m not going racing. Time to regroup for World Champs! Can’t thank everyone enough for continuing to support me through these difficult times.Dakotah Norton

We hope Dakotah is able to brush off the virus quickly and look forward to seeing him back in Europe on the race track soon.


432 Comments

  • 1126 4
 So much for Norton anti-virus
  • 95 8
 Possibly the best comment that I’ve ever seen on pinkbike
  • 6 4
 @Mntneer: Agree. Love it!
  • 21 2
 That's avira good comment.
  • 9 6
 You've won the internet today
  • 14 5
 More effective than McAfee these days
  • 10 2
 Come on Levy this deserves it's own podcast for comment gold. Top drawer
  • 6 4
 You sir have single handedly won Pinkbike.
  • 13 0
 fantastic - however, please reframe from such whit during office hours. I cannot chuckle out loud like that during zoom calls without alerting suspicion. Only so many times I can blame it on the pet.
  • 5 0
 If this one doesn’t get comment gold…
  • 2 0
 Possible comment of the year
  • 3 0
 Gold metal comment 2021!
  • 3 0
 who are the 4 who downvoted this???
  • 3 0
 @Andypanda82: Comment of the decade
  • 2 0
 Pure gold.
  • 1 0
 Oh my gosh, someone should give you 1 million dollars for this comment!!!
  • 3 0
 @ReformedRoadie: probably people that work for Norton....
  • 2 1
 @jaame: too soon
  • 1 0
 Duh, comment won't appear in the right place, refer spudreau's comment above.

* "... refrain from such wit..."
  • 3 0
 Yeah didn't work the second time either.
  • 2 0
 You won the internet for the rest of the year! bravo
  • 105 15
 Man, this comment section is not making the USA look very good.
  • 126 23
 To all the people reading this who aren't American, I promise you, we aren't all covid deniers and conspiracy theorists.
  • 56 2
 @Gibbsatron: don't worry; I think most people here know America is big, loud and powerful, so your crackpots stand out more, but we've all got our own.
  • 19 3
 We did it to ourselves breh
  • 15 7
 @Gibbsatron: it's usually the anti-vaxers and conspiracy theorists that like to run their mouths off too so I'm not surprised they've flooded this comment section.
  • 23 6
 American behavior is not making the USA look very good.
  • 19 10
 @plyawn: True that, most of our crackpots are concentrated in Alberta. I sincerely feel bad for anyone that lives there who isn't a climate-change denying, Trudeau-hating, vaccine-hesitant, reality-challenged, PHD-in-Facebook-researching, dumbass. EDIT: I see you live in Alberta... well this is awkward.
  • 12 2
 @nzandyb: @nzandyb: Alberta has over 80% vaccination rates in Edmonton and Calgary, the nutso's are here correct but in the rural areas just like every province in Canada.
  • 3 5
 @Gibbsatron: the world is filled with idiots. No need to feel so ashamed and unworldly at the same time. Let it go
  • 3 2
 @bertimusmaximus: FLAT EARTH behavior is not making humans look good.
  • 4 11
flag pistol2ne (Aug 12, 2021 at 13:01) (Below Threshold)
 Excessive testing after vaccination is absolutely cause for concern.
  • 3 15
flag pistol2ne (Aug 12, 2021 at 13:01) (Below Threshold)
 @bertimusmaximus: Hate America, win internet points!
  • 4 2
 @Gibbsatron: don't worry the UK is full of people with tinfoil hat's stating that the world is flat.
  • 8 4
 We are excellent at making ourselves not look very good, see 2016-2020.
  • 9 0
 @nzandyb: pretty ignorant comment. Majority of people in Alberta are awesome. We have our loud minority of idiots just like everywhere else.

The holier-than-thou attitude of some British Columbians towards Albertans is pretty sad
  • 4 9
flag tacklingdummy (Aug 12, 2021 at 14:49) (Below Threshold)
 The vaccines are still not FDA approved in the US. So, FDA still has questions and has to analyze the data before approving it to be safe.
  • 2 4
 @Gibbsatron: there are a trolls here, which are noisy but not that many. It's just the nature of internet, we keep feeding them.
But I want to say USA is not the only country drowning in conspiracy theorists.
Here the hybrid war (propaganda) is at its high now, and this is why is so noisy (also I feel KGB has recruited big part of the Republican party for some reason Smile )
In the whole Eastern Europe, France, and some other countries conspiracy theories are even stronger, and more people have fallen in the rabbit holes. Brexit was also helped by propaganda campaigns over social networks. Brexit was a big win for any anti-western country out there.
  • 6 3
 There's no point in arguing with the idiotic anti vaxxers/Trump supporters. Just have to hope they get the Delta+ variant and get weeded out by intelligence based natural selection.
  • 4 2
 @arrowheadrush: Ignorant comments aren't generally easily proven correct are they? highest vaccine hesitancy: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/road-ahead-poll-alberta-covid-vaccine-hesitant-1.6024067, highest climate change denial: globalnews.ca/news/6207280/map-climate-change-canada, lowest approval of Trudeau: angusreid.org/trudeau-tracker. I apologize if my comment hurt your feelings or insulted where you live, but it's pretty hard to swallow the oil-and-gas evangelists when half the countryside is on fire and I can't go riding because of all the smoke.
  • 2 3
 @nzandyb: yup its definitely Albertans fault that the entire world runs on oil and worldwide consumption increases every year. Damn Albertans!
  • 2 0
 @pistol2ne: Florida is your case in point heh?
  • 4 2
 @arrowheadrush: Such an unmitigated cop out and blame shift. Albertan's voted for a Conservative government which has ZERO interest in diversifying the economy away from oil and gas. Alberta is completely at the mercy of international oil prices. Haven't you ever wondered why we put drug dealers in prison when they're not the ones doing the drugs? Supply and demand are closely related, it's not a revelation.
  • 132 48
 Vaccination only helps prevent you from getting highly ill and requiring hospital treatment, in no way does it make you immune or not being able to transmit it to others! Bummer for Dak and all the other athletes and people affected around the world, Covid Sucks!!!
  • 61 13
 Stop it with your science. Yao will get down voted to oblivion if you keep this up
  • 77 301
flag swellhunter (Aug 12, 2021 at 3:26) (Below Threshold)
 Covid Sucks??? What planet are you on? Government Sucks!!!! Been paralyzed by fear propaganda much? Blows my mind how people live in complete fear. All this for a respiratory virus no more dangerous than the flu - just manipulated numbers to drive public fear and justify draconian policy. When my friends son was killed in a motorcycle accident a month after all of this hype started and his death certificate said Covid it was then confirmed to me this was way bigger than anyone realized.
  • 109 36
 @swellhunter: blows my mind you think you're awake and smarter than everyone else. Gtfo pinkbike
  • 33 146
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:08) (Below Threshold)
 @swellhunter: Bro pinkbike is the mtb Twitter these days , they will take posts down that don't fit the fake narrative media pumps. How did riding get turned into a political platform. They are all poisoned.
  • 55 110
flag jaame (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:40) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: one should try to think for oneself, and question everything. Look at the evidence and make one’s own mind up.
It is not a sign of intelligence to follow the herd.
  • 15 61
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:43) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: Indeed , this was a public broadcast test.
  • 91 17
 That's not correct.

www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-risks.html

A new CDC study finds the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) reduce the risk of infection by 91 percent for fully vaccinated people.
  • 46 7
 @jaame: it's also not a sign of intelligence to say wake up without providing any evidence on MTB forum.
  • 22 34
flag jaame (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:57) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: “Evidence” is a loaded term these days.
  • 13 54
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 5:05) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: Perception against evidence is being twisted at record levels.
  • 36 12
 It doesn't make you "immune", but it certainly reduces the likelihood of contracting the disease. And probably, although not surely, the likelihood of spreading the disease.
  • 11 44
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 5:46) (Below Threshold)
 @Ttimer: Then what are you scared of.
  • 130 15
 @swellhunter: no more dangerous then the flu eh? I got covid, developed an antibody response that caused transverse myelitis and paralyzed me from the chest down. Worked with some of the best specialists in Canada to get through it. Now if YOU get it, then stick by your guns and don't go to a hospital for treatment. Take vitamin C and wait it out. Though in reality, you'll run to the hospital and accept every ounce of care they can provide because you, like most conspiracy theorists, have no clue what you are talking about.
  • 63 13
 @swellhunter: Bro, STFU. I watched some one die from this disease. It’s not government conspiracy. 2 of my former co-workers just died from it too. They were aggressively anti-vax. I’m just 1 person and know 3 people that died from it

So yeah, the government created a fear campaign that’s killed nearly a million people, 3 of which I knew. Go ahead and Keep “thinking” for yoursef
  • 27 7
 @CamTakacs: @CamTakacs: sorry to hear it, man. That's brutal - hope you make a full recovery.

I wince every time this type of article pops up because it's virtually guaranteed that some of us from the U.S. come crawling out of the woodwork to spew their conspiracy theories. Wish they'd keep to their neighborhood soapbox yelling at everyone that they're sheep and about fAkE MeDiA narratives instead of making those of us who actually believe in science & evidence look bad. @ReeferSouthrland and @swellhunter really stepped up to the task this time.

Sorry you all have to deal with it.
  • 5 49
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 7:48) (Below Threshold)
 @heyburner: Conspiracy theories get crunched faster than a DH run when you are part of a massive hospital network, too say the absolute least , we care about the truth. Stub your toe and come out on the covid list my hospital get government funding, your kid can't go to school, and the cycle of ignorance plays out, in your house , mo.
  • 2 3
 Where is the science that proves it? Link please. I would like to read it.
  • 13 4
 @jaame: What evidence? Google or your brother's mate's, sisters Facebook?
  • 27 4
 @ReeferSouthrland: you don't care about the truth, you care about a truth that makes you feel special, like you're "in-the-know", because actual reality is boring and prosaic and chaotic and it doesn't make sense. BORING! Gimme bullshit! Mmmm taste that bullshit. It gives you the power of thought! Thought it tell ya! Don't be a dead covidiot like all the others.
  • 3 30
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:43) (Below Threshold)
 @BenPea: What truth? The one they told you or witnessed hospital admissions patient access director status??????
  • 34 3
 @ReeferSouthrland: sorry I meant to neg prop you.

My wife works in a hospital, covid is real. Have a day off being a d**khead mate.
  • 2 18
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:48) (Below Threshold)
 @chriss78: Why are you soo sorry?
  • 21 10
 @ReeferSouthrland: @ReeferSouthrland: You need to remove yourself from this conversation. You are dangerous to others. If you want yourself dead or sick fine, but crawl in a hole and do it so it doesn't effect others.
  • 2 35
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:49) (Below Threshold)
 @Dlakusta: You are a very misguided emotional little boy.
  • 19 3
 @ReeferSouthrland: seriously dude. Take a day off and collect your thoughts. You're just losing more and more interest in people joining your cause. You're worse than trash juice
  • 2 24
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:59) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: Mo why are you soo easily upset? It's pretty hilarious
  • 14 2
 this new narrative that the vaccines were never designed to prevent infection is completely misleading!

When most of the studies talk about vaccine effectiveness in reducing hospitalization and death they are conflating:

Prophylactic efficacy (likelihood that a vaccinated person exposed to COVID was not infected)-about 5-15%

Then among those 5-15% that do end up infected they are adding the Therapeutic efficacy (likelihood that a vaccine breakthrough case ends up hospitalized) which is more unknown likely 25-80%.

So if the vaccines were not preventing infection among a large number of individuals in the first place the effectiveness in reducing hospitalizations would only be somewhere around 20-75% vs the 90% numbers that are often being quoted.

Thus immunizations prevent, but do not eliminate, risk of infection), and then when you are infected they appear to reduce the likelihood of hospitalization (still needs a lot more definitive research)
  • 13 1
 @ReeferSouthrland: who said I was upset? You're literally just typing words now with no thought process behind them
  • 15 6
 @BenPea: that’s 100% what this is: insecurity manifesting itself in the form of “in-the-know” conspiracy theory pushers. They feel special believing they possess ‘elite’, ‘exclusive’ knowledge. It’s basically a bunch of idiots grasping for some proof that they’re not idiots, and they’ve decided that conspiracy theories are the proof they need.
  • 2 26
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: Hi are you terrified or going out riding today mo? I was worried about you!!
  • 1 9
flag togood2die (Aug 12, 2021 at 9:29) (Below Threshold)
 @jeremy3220: Less than my immune system does, IOW. Okay.
  • 12 20
flag thustlewhumber (Aug 12, 2021 at 9:30) (Below Threshold)
 @jeremy3220: www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/massachusetts-outbreak-demonstrates-delta-variants-transmissibility

469 cases, 346 were fully vaccinated. (123 non-vaccinated)

Of those, 5 people hospitalized - 4 vaccinated (1 non-vaccinated)

4/346 = .0115%. 1/123 = .0081.

IE - there is a 34% higher chance of a vaccinated person going to the hospital than a non-vaccinated person.

Explain to me why i need this again?
  • 5 15
flag togood2die (Aug 12, 2021 at 9:32) (Below Threshold)
 @CamTakacs: I did! Not even one serious symptom, and antibody reaction handled it.

So... not everyone's the same and not everyone needs to react the same to this, is that what I'm reading?

Gotcha.

P.S. You know the CIA invented the term "conspiracy theorist" to discredit leakers and people with real stories to tell, right? Trust the government(s), they know what's best! Like the Tuskegee Experiment
  • 6 7
 @heyburner: Amazing how the science changes daily, because that's WHAT BLOODY SCIENCE DOES, you clown. Amazing how insanely dense the midwit population of this "educated" western world is...
  • 6 15
flag togood2die (Aug 12, 2021 at 9:35) (Below Threshold)
 @thustlewhumber: They all say "TRUST THE SCIENCE!" and here it is, science and math that tell me I'm going to be better off just living my life, but no, they call us crazy...
  • 16 0
 @thustlewhumber: you are missing a lot of what was needed to calculate anything.

1) Total number of people at the event
2) Total number of vaccinated people at the event

So the prophylactic impact of the immunization (preventing infection) is not taken into account

You are correct at the crude level there does not appear to be no difference in the risk of hospitalization among cases by immunization status (those are extremely low numbers so even 1 or 2 hospitalizations would change your calculation). More importantly individuals at greatest risk of severe disease (elderly and those with conditions that increase hospitalization risk) have higher rates of vaccination. These are also groups where the vaccines do not work as well. Thus in order to truly assess the effectiveness of the immunization in preventing hospitalization here you need to "adjust" for age, underlying condition, sex etc to get an accurate estimate.

This is why scientific studies are needed!
  • 9 0
 @thustlewhumber: It's expected that as the percentage of vaccinated people increases in the population that the percentage of those infected will be vaccinated increases. IOW, if 100% of the population is vaccinated then the infected will also be 100% vaccinated.
  • 11 3
 @CamTakacs: Isn't it funny that there are those who will denounce science and research until they are sick or on the edge of death? They won't hesitate to trust science and research then!
  • 5 14
flag togood2die (Aug 12, 2021 at 10:32) (Below Threshold)
 @chezotron: Nah, still don't trust em. Why would I? Doctors helped jab blacks in the Tuskegee Experiment and dozens of other events like it in just this young nation's history.

P.S. It isn't an education thing, I've spent more than 12 years in higher ed, I have three degrees in three fields... Knowledge has made me more skeptical, not less.
  • 5 3
 @togood2die: "the CIA invented the term "conspiracy theorist" to discredit leakers and people with real stories to tell".
Even if this isn't made up (it sounds made up), that doesn't make more than 1% of conspiracy theories true - including those invented for fun by pranksters, but which still garner 000s of followers. It's almost like there's a psychological hack you can use to convince anyone of anything, one involving youtube and some really cheesy video graphics.
  • 6 5
 @swellhunter: It's funny how antiVX cite 'Sheep's Fear' as the reason the rest of us make other choices. I live in one of the craziest, dirtiest, cities in America and am an Essential Worker who never missed a day of work nor spent a day inside in "fear" during this entire ordeal. The Fear comes from people afraid of the Gates 5G chip-insertion DNA-altering squirt from what I can tell....
  • 8 9
 @suspended-flesh: It's only a "conspiracy" until some new info comes out proving it correct... Like every single other "theory" that people have been called nuts for...
So I'll wait, thanks.
No need to rush, right? I mean normally vaccine development takes 5-10 years. What's the hurry?
  • 5 1
 @togood2die: You do you, my man.
  • 5 7
 @suspended-flesh: I've had it, barely noticed, I'm fine, thanks.
  • 12 6
 @togood2die: Some of the people you spread it to died, but that's not your problem! Have a great ride.
  • 6 17
flag jaame (Aug 12, 2021 at 10:59) (Below Threshold)
 There is only one true truth. Science is a magic pill that everyone can take and everything will be fine!
Read the (singular) evidence, have the (singular) science do as you're told and you will prosper. Make your own mind up about anything (especially in the face of the singular truth called science) and you will probably die.
What we should absolutely not do is have a different point of view from the one single accepted point of view that has been determined to be the one sole truth by those above us who know better. This one sole truth will evolve over time so it could be the case that the one sole truth now directly contradicts the one sole truth 100 years from now. That not our concern. The truth givers in 100 years will look back at today's truth givers wistfully, believing that their one sole truth is the absolute truth that cannot be challenged. What those truth givers gave the people in 2021 was so antiquated and silly! But they didn't know they were wrong at the time, bless their primitive little souls.
Am I being too optimistic though. It's unlikely that humans will still exist in 100 years, based on the absolute single truth that science says about global warming. Climate change sorry. Or is it the climate emergency (TM) now. Oh gosh it is hard to keep up with all these single absolute truths that science proves, that we keep hearing about from the truth meisters who are absolutely always 100% right, 100% righteous, 100% of the time.
Don't dare to question anything. Just go to work like a good little boy and keep paying your taxes. My apologies to anyone who finds the word boy offensive.
Everybody love everybody!
  • 2 2
 @daugherd: ofcourse you did "Bro".
  • 3 0
 @swellhunter: @swellhunter: We know 4 people that Covid has landed in the hospital, and I do not know any had preexisting health issues.

They were age range of 50 to 65. All have recovered but one lady was close to death in hospital, as she developed pneumonia too. Her doctor told her to expect a lengthy recovery period.

Because of these examples, I came to the conclusion that it's more serious than the flu. I also know of folks that had the virus with mild symptoms too, but can't ever recall influenza landing anything I've known in the hospital.
  • 14 8
 @njcbps: it's true that it's more serious than the flu, I think. It's also true that most people who get it don't die. I don't want to get it, that's why I got double vaxxed. I don't hate people who don't want to get vaxxed though, or people who don't think vaccination works or is necessary. I don't understand all the hate and righteousness.
News flash: we are going to die. If you don't die of covid you will die of something else.
Is it worth sacrificing your freedom to extend by a few years the lives of a small minority of the population, whose lives are probably closer to the end than the beginning anyway?
It's an interesting question, to which there is no one single answer that is 100% correct.
Different people have different values. Personally I think freedom is important. That includes the freedom to make bad decisions. And to those who would question if a selfish few should be allowed to potentially harm the many, I would answer that everyone is responsible for his own actions. I have the freedom to chose for myself if I want to increase my risk of exposure by visiting a public place at a busy time. I have the freedom to wear an NBC suit when I go to Sainsbury's if I want to. Instead of limiting the actions or compelling behaviour, I think we should encourage people to take responsibility for their own actions. Stay in if you want to. If you choose to go out, be aware that you may contract covid. Also be aware that the science unequivocally proves that if you do contract covid, you probably won't die. It won't be nice, but you probably won't die. That's some science that we can all believe in, despite the media always reporting the opposite side of the coin.
  • 2 2
 @jaame: Sod off ya old git!
  • 3 7
flag westeast (Aug 12, 2021 at 11:57) (Below Threshold)
 @jeremy3220:

Maybe you should show the CDC this study and some data from Israel:

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
From the link: "Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated"

From Isreal: www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/07/23/pfizer-shot-just-39-effective-against-delta-infection-but-largely-prevents-severe-illness-israel-study-suggests/?sh=18b81f18584f

And anytime they say covid case you have to ask some questions. Did that particular case seek medical treatment for symptoms? What test was used? If the PCR test, how many cycles were used? This whole pandemic rests on the "cases" and if you've learned anything about the PCR test you'd know that what defines a case varies considerably and that any PCR test run at more than 28 cycles is likely not an infected person.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm
From the link: "Beginning May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections to investigating only those among patients who are hospitalized or die, thereby focusing on the cases of highest clinical and public health significance. "

Going all the way back to the initial Phizer trials... they had over 3,400 subjects with "covid like symptoms" yet didn't test them. That's what your 95% effectiveness number is based on. Why aren't they releasing all the of the date? Why did they unblind the study and vaccinate the placebo group?

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data
  • 3 1
 @westeast: I already covered your first link.
  • 2 5
 Testing asymptomatic people when the vaccine that's available and has been available to anyone not in 3rd world countries is bad for society.
  • 5 12
flag pistol2ne (Aug 12, 2021 at 13:05) (Below Threshold)
 @CamTakacs: I got covid and had absolutely none of that. Sorry, lived experiences or anecdotal comments on a bike website don't change the fact covid isn't very dangerous for you if you're healthy and not old. Not to mention, asymptomatic testing, which is what is the root problem (post vaccination) is the dumbest shit ever.

Does long covid cause you to lose ability to think critically? it'd appear so, yikes.
  • 13 5
 @togood2die: I know someone who got in a car accident and lived, guess seatbelts and airbags are a government conspiracy as well. Grow up
  • 4 8
flag jaame (Aug 12, 2021 at 13:18) (Below Threshold)
 @CamTakacs: Statistically they definitely work, but we still should have the freedom to choose whether or not we use them. Same with motorcycle helmets. Freedom is more important in my opinion than protecting people from their own stupidity.
  • 5 7
 @CamTakacs: Seatbelts have been proven to save lives. Asymptomatic testing after vaccination (or the vaccines been available for months) hasn't been shown to save any lives, and definitely has been shown to disrupt people's lives.
  • 9 1
 @heyburner: I'm fit. I'm a saturation diver by trade. I do a medical every year that includes pulmonary function tests, a stress test on my heart and extensive blood work. I had no classic symptoms of COVID. Never had any respiratory distress but was sidelined by an antibody response and a resultant autoimmune disorder.

Everything on here is anecdotal. I'm sharing my experience. If you want real data, it is out there. My doctors shared with me everything they knew to my level of understanding and its easily accessible. Every single one said get the vaccine. And this isn't just canadian doctors. These are docs from Singapore, France, Scotland and they all said get it, no questions.

I can understand who you are scared when you are in a profit motivated system. But the resounding view from accross the globe is get the vaccine. If it can take me out, it can take anyone out.

Or... roll the dice and risk yourself and others. Just don't go knocking on the hospital door when you need help.
  • 3 8
flag pistol2ne (Aug 12, 2021 at 13:43) (Below Threshold)
 @CamTakacs:

Regardless of the vaccine, what's happening here is fearmongers like you are sharing anecdotal information about your battle with covid prior to the vaccine being available. DAK was vaxd and asymptomatic testing post vaccine is and absolutely awful for society.
  • 7 0
 @jaame: Can't catch car crash from a chum (unless they're driving). Freedom is one of those words that means what we want it to mean. Interdependence is impossible to escape with an infectious disease. One man's freedom can be another man's death warrant, not to sound too dramatic. And if the ward's full of covid patients, you're not going to get treated for whatever it is you need treating.
  • 11 0
 @jaame: to equate riding without a helmet to "muh freedomz" shows what a privileged little life you live.

The fact is our actions affect others as we live in a society. We are not islands on this earth. We compromise for the greater good so that we all benefit.
  • 7 0
 @pistol2ne: Is it not fear mongering when someone says that it is no more dangerous then the flu which flies in the face of all medical expertise AND anecdotal evidence?
  • 2 0
 @CamTakacs: Wrong @ I think my guy. I'm with you 100% of the way!
  • 3 0
 @CamTakacs: sorry. You're right. I take it back.
  • 6 1
 @jaame: So you think "society" should pay for your stay and care at a critical care facility after you crack your skull and are left in a vegetative state? Or should we just bankrupt your family and then we can all bitch at them for being homeless. Freedumb!!!
  • 5 7
 @CamTakacs: just wondering how agent orange and the anthrax shot has worked out?? Both were pushed on people and have done more damage than good. The CDC and FDA did not let smokers know that cigarettes caused cancer till 50yrs after they knew. Remember the food pyramid put out by the government. Wondering why you don’t see or hear about it anymore?? Maybe because the biggest section of the food pyramid claimed you should eat more carbs than anything else which led to many people getting diabetes and having overweight issues. You can believe anything you want. Doesn’t bother me any. We need test dummies for meds just like we need them for cars!!
  • 5 1
 @krumpdancer101: Uh, Agent Orange was a tactical blend of military herbicides used to eliminate the rainforests of Vietnam and Anthrax a naturally occurring bacteria - both were guinea-pigged on the unsuspecting military but not via "shots" LOL. If you want to make a point start with a sentence that doesn't taint the rest of your otherwise somewhat credible remarks.....
  • 5 3
 @suspended-flesh: ask any Vietnam veteran and they will tell you agent orange was pushed on them and they were told when it rained from the sky on them and covered them that it was fine because it would not affect them which was a lie spread to them from the government. Whether it’s the military or not it’s the government. Also anthrax was given as a shot. In fact service-members sued the military afterwards. I had several friends get it and so I know it was given as a shot.

It’s pretty interesting that you’re on big government side now. If I remember correctly that wasn’t your thing last year.
  • 1 5
flag pistol2ne (Aug 12, 2021 at 17:01) (Below Threshold)
 @CamTakacs: After vaccination covid is no more dangerous than the flu.
  • 2 1
 @pistol2ne: yup, or about as close to it. See who I was responding to in my initial post. He did not qualify it with " after vaccination"
  • 3 1
 @pistol2ne: What about the hundreds of millions of people who have died from the flu then? Was the flu dangerous to them?
  • 2 1
 @krumpdancer101: the clinical trials are conducted by contract research organizations so good news, you don't have to trust the government. There's plenty of independent research to show they're generally safe.
  • 2 6
flag pistol2ne (Aug 12, 2021 at 17:13) (Below Threshold)
 @CamTakacs: If you're under 11, without vax it's as dangerous as the flu, above that, and specifically above 55 or 60 its way more dangerous.

It's probably less dangerous after vax depending on age but that's not the point. The point is asymptomatic testing, after vax or natural infection is a way for a forever pandemic and absolutely ridiculous. Assuming DAK is vaccinated this whole point is dumb af but nobody wants to admit that.
  • 2 1
 @jeremy3220: I’d love to hear how many years of research it is. I’m not debating whether the vaccine is good bad or if you should take it or not I feel that’s everyone’s choice and it’s everyone’s freedom as a living human being to decide.
  • 2 2
 @krumpdancer101: the Pfizer phase 3 trial was six months plus any adverse effects since it ended (around Nov last year) could be reported through the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. However, it's not like the general public knows anything about drug trials and are totally unequipped to make an educated choice.
  • 3 2
 @jeremy3220: So not even enough time for a pregnant woman to have a baby, so there definitely is no realistic evidence on effects of pregnancy or the effects on children in the womb. So the drug trials are still on going. Just with volunteers now in the real world. Remember contract research organizations work for the government and are CONTRACTED by the government. How many years were we told by the government and researchers that weed would make you refer madness!!
  • 4 1
 @krumpdancer101: "Remember contract research organizations work for the government and are CONTRACTED by the government. How many years were we told by the government "

No that's not correct. The pharmaceutical company designs the trials in adherence with FDA guidelines.

Does it not occur to you, a person that knows nothing about drug research, that maybe you should argue less, try to be more open minded and learn about the vaccine if you have concerns?
  • 3 4
 @jeremy3220: ahhhh now you are claiming to know who I am??? The truth always rises when fact needs to be blurred with truth.

So the FDA is your go to??? Another government agency?? Tell you what how many products approved by the FDA have caused cancer?? Don’t worry that will be easy for you to justify I am sure.
  • 3 1
 @krumpdancer101: yeah you clearly don't understand the process or science because you're not even discussing it. You're just asking weird questions that no one would ask otherwise. I don't care about winning this argument. I genuinely want to know if it occurred to you that maybe you're taking the wrong approach? Are you concerned that maybe you don't have the background to properly assess the science?
  • 2 3
 @MOBrules: society paid for the sex offender who assaulted Kyle Rittenhouse to be buried so I am sure one hospital bill won’t hurt.
  • 1 7
flag krumpdancer101 (Aug 12, 2021 at 19:10) (Below Threshold)
 @jeremy3220: ahhhhh SCIENCE the new favorite word. Tell me this than Mr or Mrs SCIENCE when does human life begin and where did humans come from? Humans have only been here for thousands of years so we should be easy to figure that out especially since it takes human life to create the vaccines that you are saying that people need to put in their arms so I would think the scientist would discover where human life came from before they took aborted babies to create vaccines to stick in your arm and tell you if you don’t you can’t have your job. Sorry that you don’t understand the words that are coming out of my mouth. In fact they’re literally coming out of my mouth while I put it in a talk text to your dumb ass because you don’t deserve me to spend my time wasting it on you typing letters to create syllables which create words to destroy you followed by a period or exclamation point, I haven’t figured which one I wanna give you yet.
  • 3 0
 @krumpdancer101: You still think I'm arguing with you. I'm asking you a direct question, if you don't want to answer that's fine.
  • 1 0
 @krumpdancer101: the covid vaccine doesn't have aborted fetuses. Fetal cell lines and fetal tissue are two different things. The FT was used in initial testing but not tissue.
  • 1 0
 @swellhunter:
Your Highland season pass has been revoked.
  • 1 3
 @jeremy3220: Sure I’ll answer your direct question when you answer mine. Where do humans come from?
  • 1 5
flag krumpdancer101 (Aug 12, 2021 at 20:39) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: It takes living fetal tissue to reproduce and create life which is why they use it for the vaccines. Everything you buy in the grocery store has an ingredient list per the FDA So I’d be happy for you to tell me where on the vaccine vile the ingredient list is.
  • 2 1
 @krumpdancer101: Nah - I don't trust the government, I just don't FEAR them because I work my own angles and make my own choices and I also work for a branch of government (in a sense). There is no Trilateral Commission Illuminati Pizza Pedo Ring happening either.
  • 1 1
 @jeremy3220: and to answer your question. Nope!!
  • 3 2
 @jeremy3220: You need to look into the album Hidden History of the Human Race by Blood Incantation.

"Earth" LOL
  • 4 6
 It's probably safe to assume Dacovid Norton wasn't vaccinated, since he's from Trump country and rides for YTrash.
www.pinkbike.com/u/DoubleCrownAddict/blog/yt-marketing-the-most-offensive-mysogynist-violent-pro-trump-company-in-bicycle-history.html
  • 3 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: why all the hate?
  • 3 4
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You are very small in all regards.
  • 8 3
 @jaame: Why all the stupid right wing conspiracy theories? The anti vaxxers are the reason we aren't making progress on Covid.
  • 2 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I think you've got the wrong guy. I don't peddle conspiracy theories and I'm not right wing.

The world would be a better place if everyone would just accept and respect that there are many points of view, and that we don't always have to be right.
  • 1 9
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 13, 2021 at 3:23) (Below Threshold)
 @DoubleCrownAddict: The amount of people believing the propaganda these days is at record levels. It's like a virus they need to make fake test kits and vaccines for.
  • 5 2
 @krumpdancer101: come on, agent orange wasn't that bad a president.
  • 1 2
 @suspended-flesh: I damn sure never said I FEAR them. We know there was no pizza pedo ring. Just like there was no Russian collusion no matter how delusional the host are on your favorite channel is. Thanks for the reminder!!
  • 1 5
flag krumpdancer101 (Aug 13, 2021 at 6:11) (Below Threshold)
 @BenPea: Haha yea I guess you’re punching bag president is better.
  • 2 3
 @krumpdancer101: FYI, you're means you are. Your means your.
  • 2 0
 @krumpdancer101: Do you have a heavy metal album source to back this up?
  • 3 2
 @jeremy3220: Haha - exactly. A no less-reliable source than what gets cited here.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: thanks!!
  • 1 4
 @jeremy3220: Don’t worry I have as many anonymous sources as the New York times.
  • 5 7
 @jeremy3220: In the case of Phizer I believe you are right. The initial trials were run by 3 phizer employees. This is the same phizer that has paid billions in criminal fines for falsely marketing their products. This is the same phizer that has no liability for the covid shot it is selling (at least here in the US). This is the same phizer that didn't test 3,401 trial subjects who were symptomatic. This is the same phizer who has already unblinded their study and given the placebo group the shot. Why should I be forced to take a product like this? Why should my spouse, who has been working in an emergency room through this whole pandemic, be forced to take a product like this? And it won't just be once, Fauci is already saying they'll be annual booster shots. Latest data shows Phizer is at best 42% effective (at reducing symptoms?) regarding the delta variant. Since when did all of you become salesman for billion dollar pharmaceutical companies? Why are asymptomatic people with a positive PCR test counted as a case? Why are HCQ, Ivermectin, Budesonide and other effective treatments being suppressed? Why didn't Fauci tell people to take some Vitamin C & D, especially through the winter months, something he admitting to doing himself?
  • 3 2
 @westeast: You don't even know how to spell Pfizer. The trials were designed by Pfizer and ran by CRO's.
  • 6 1
 @CamTakacs: they become science fans when their O2 sats tank below 85% and come crying for vents or ECMO machines; putting undue pressure on health system. Hope you are making a good recovery and keep blasting blasting the anti science yahoos.
  • 1 4
 @Batipapo: why would you be so mean?
  • 6 1
 @jaame: Just a healthcare worker providing a reality check for the selfish unvacciny yahoo’s out there
  • 3 2
 @Batipapo: goal was to get on the bike again. 4 months of heavy drugs and physio under the direction of the un recognized saints that are doctors. Shredding the blue trails on my big bike because why the f*ck not. Tomorrow you may not be able to walk or may be relying on a ventilator no matter your fitness or health. Take the precautions and enjoy every second of your life.
  • 1 1
 @westeast: make sure to put on your farmers hat because the sheep will flock to this one.
  • 2 1
 @b45her: bro you 110% need to STFU. You have no clue what I’ve been through.
  • 2 1
 double post
  • 3 3
 @jeremy3220: hey, thanks for the spelling lesson and missing the whole point.
  • 1 3
 @westeast: Again, you're wrong. The trials were designed by Pfizer and ran by CRO's.

Also, you didn't make a typo. Pfizer is a short proper name and you're not misspelling their name multiple times if you know anything about them. Like if you told me you went to college at Hardvard and misspelled it four more times, I know you didn't go to school in Cambridge.
  • 3 3
 Can't argue with Trump supporters. Can only hope a new variant develops that makes southern cross breeders more more vulnerable to intellectual natural selection.
  • 2 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Very negative scared little boy you are.
  • 3 4
 @ReeferSouthrland: Nah, actually thinking positive and hoping for the best.
  • 2 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Your as positive as a depressed seal looking for dead fish.
  • 1 2
 @ReeferSouthrland: Doublecrackaddict probably smells as bad also.
  • 3 4
 @ReeferSouthrland: Comparing Trump supporters to dead fish is not giving dead fish fair credit. Even a dead fish has a higher IQ then anybody who believes the con man loser Trump. You guys have negative IQ's, you only believe conspiracy nonsense.
  • 3 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: yes because everyone is the same. That's not prejudice at all.
  • 4 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You need to file that brainwashed nonsense on CNN's forum emotional weirdo.
  • 69 16
 Wow, some serious bad luck for USA cycling this year: Norton missing a round with Covid, Harrison injured early on, Gwin missing at least one round due to back injury from national race.

Feeling so proud of myself for not making a universal heathcare joke #humblebrag
  • 18 144
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:39) (Below Threshold)
 I’m currently not experiencing any symptoms and feel fine. One hell of a mirus!
  • 80 7
 @ReeferSouthrland: nothing like one anecdotal piece of evidence to base your whole understanding of a virus on!
  • 14 110
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 3:44) (Below Threshold)
 @TannerValhouli: The evidence is blasting you in the face , will you wake up, who cares, smell it.
  • 29 6
 @ReeferSouthrland: ok Dr. Now get off the internet and talk to real people
  • 7 72
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:13) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: How did you know I'm a doctor?
  • 43 9
 @ReeferSouthrland: you're not. You're an idiot who is selfish. Anyone who thinks your words are legit need serious mental support
  • 9 79
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:16) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: Be careful riding with that brain soo full of trash son.
  • 30 12
 When your put on a ventilator and needing a lung maybe that'll be the wake up call you need
  • 9 77
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:22) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: Why are you soo emotional and negative little guy?
  • 40 10
 @ReeferSouthrland: I'm just making sure people are aware you're a troll and wasting everyone's time with your BS. Probably best to go back to your Reddit account or wherever you get praise from
  • 10 66
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:28) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: Troll, person with an educated opinion, whatever gets you to sleep lady.
  • 25 7
 @giantwhip: You're being too kind. Assclown would be more appropriate.
  • 25 5
 @ReeferSouthrland: You fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down. Then climbed back up for 2nd's
  • 4 42
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:30) (Below Threshold)
 @m1dg3t: Is that a bady word oh no
  • 25 7
 @ReeferSouthrland: educated from online posts and articles isn't the same as real life education..get off the internet, talk to medical professionals, read books. That's education. You're just regurgitating the same conspiracies everyone else thinks are reality . You're not original
  • 12 6
 @ReeferSouthrland: If you were in a room with all of your friends you still wouldn't have 2 brain cells to rub together. Moron.
  • 5 46
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:36) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: You just made me 100k before work, big thanks.
  • 6 47
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:37) (Below Threshold)
 @m1dg3t: Wow Canadians really have a tough time with comedy , keep practicing son.
  • 18 31
flag jaame (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:38) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: if everyone thinks the conspiracies are reality, do they in some part become a reality?
Is it fair to draw a parallel between the objective evidence:subjective belief of trans persons, and the objective evidence:subjective belief of anti vaxxers?

And what is the name for people who understand the science of vaccination, but choose to not be vaccinated? Are those people fair game in the internet name calling culture we currently experience?

What makes one group fair game, and another group protected?

I wish all the rules were written down. Everybody love everybody, celebrate diversity. Those are the rules I live by.
  • 7 40
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:40) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: Words of wisdom never go unnoticed.
  • 19 7
 @ReeferSouthrland: Son? LoL I've met some real morons in my time, but damn! You take the cake.
  • 4 43
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:41) (Below Threshold)
 @m1dg3t: I never took a cake you stupid idiot.
  • 13 4
 @ReeferSouthrland: LoL. No, you most certainly take the stupid cake.
  • 3 34
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:44) (Below Threshold)
 @m1dg3t: Why yooooo , no you diiint
  • 27 30
 we should definitely believe the drug companies because they're altruistic. They're using all of their record profits off name brand pharmaceuticals to develop vaccines out of their desire to save lives. They're not making money off of the billions of vaccinations obviously.
The drug companies are most definitely not aggresssively pursuing patents using college research, government funding and are definitely spending the majority of their revenues on applying existing medical treatment procedures and the medications that have ran out of patent that wouldn't profit them.
The drug companies aren't spending the vast majority of revenue on advertising & marketing.
Our governments are definitely not heavily invested in these drug companies
Our government officials definitely did not use insider information to purchase shares of every supply needed to fight a pandemic prior to announcing the coming dangers.
Drug company lobbyists definitely do not pay vast sums of money to government officials and powerful lobbyists
Media companies definitely do thorough research and investigative reporting before publishing their reports on the available data
Media companies definitely only pay the bills by reporting good news and focus their reporting on positive health outcomes of survivors who took good care of their bodies prior to this.
People who survived Covid due to healthy lifestyle were just lucky. Only a vaccine could have saved them. People who got Covid prior to vaccines or even during this vaccination protocol can get on planes because they have actual post-Covid antibodies and are safe to be around and don't have to wear masks.
  • 13 32
flag blowmyfuse (Aug 12, 2021 at 7:21) (Below Threshold)
 oh...wait. None of the above is true.
But hey, most all of my family has had Covid despite masks, are being forced to go back to school and wear a mask despite having antibodies but no vaccine card.
My brother in law's lower leg swelled up to the size of a Christmas ham 2 days after his 2nd dose of vaccine & he was hospitalized for potential life threatening blood clots that just "went away". I'm sure it couldn't have happened in his neck or brain or heart though.

If you want to be part of the human trials for this emergency vaccine, do it. But don't enslave society if you supposedly have this "magic pill" that protects you and is available to anyone who wants it and then try to turn around and blame people willing to "chance it" for killing ANYBODY. If it's available to everybody, me not taking it doesn't kill you if you're in the right.
  • 3 22
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 7:44) (Below Threshold)
 @blowmyfuse: They can't handle the truth, my lawyers are convinced.
  • 5 0
 @TannerValhouli: Science doesn't require "trust" and "faith" if it is accurate. Weird.
  • 2 0
 @ReeferSouthrland: is a mirus anything like a virus?
  • 5 1
 @chriss78: A mirus or MYrus as it is also called, is a condition that so infects your own perceptions that you can't think for yourself. You can only groupthink with the DON'T COVER MY NAKED FREEDOM-HOLE WITH A MASK! troll gang.
  • 2 3
 @suspended-flesh: Freeride, Free thought, Freedom, this guy gets it at least.
  • 4 1
 This Reefer guy is clearly an alt account that they just use for trolling. Look at their account and post history, and the lack of anything else on their profile. IMO this person is just here to incite arguments and troll. It's fine to disagree with people and air your stupid and controversial opinions, but if that's ALL you're contributing to this site and discussion then I think you should get lost, or PB should make you get lost.
  • 2 0
 @thepwnstar39: I'd love to work at PB for a day to learn about the connections and alliances of the Troll Class. Some are clearly run by multiple accounts from the same user. I wonder if PB IT nerds even look at IP logs? Before Apache site viewers could easily see a commenter's IP addresses.
  • 3 3
 Hah...my statements about government and drug companies get 30 downvotes. State undeniable facts and people are so ashamed to know it, they have to downvote you for saying it.
  • 2 1
 @blowmyfuse: ha! I've got 50 downvotes for saying that people should think for themselves!
Very, very funny. I didn't take a side in the argument even. Probs both sides thought I was on the other side. In reality I'm on the side of freedom and definitely not tribalism.
  • 6 0
 @blowmyfuse: stating facts and providing facts are two different things. Just cause you can string together sentences doesn't mean you're a legitimate source
  • 2 1
 @m1dg3t: your comments are pure gold!
  • 1 1
 @giantwhip: some precious comments. You made my day!
  • 2 2
 @giantwhip: easy to just vaguely accuse me of stating anything false without disproving it.
  • 3 1
 @blowmyfuse: you and everyone like you talks big but in reality is just scared. Go to talk to real people off the computer and get vaccinated instead of being a selfish conspiracy driven internet troll
  • 3 5
 @giantwhip: scared? Nope. Healthy. Already had it. Got antibodies. Thanks.
Don't need an experimental mRNA vaccine trial. Got the real deal.
  • 1 2
 @thepwnstar39: The only thing clear is that nothing is clear to you.
  • 2 1
 @ReeferSouthrland: that's some deep words my man. Put down the weed now
  • 1 2
 @giantwhip: Didn't know you were hyper sensitive.
  • 4 0
 @ReeferSouthrland: everyone's hyper sensitive to you aren't they? Whenever someone calls you out they're the issue.. always blaming others for your problems. Classic conspirator
  • 1 0
 @Batipapo: Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day...
  • 1 2
 @giantwhip: You can believe whateva ,or who cares. The conspiracy is how they tainted your brains soo easily again. Have a fun ride mo.
  • 47 2
 If I pay for Outdoor+ can I filter out all comment section conversation that’s just masturbatory politic back and forth?

Hope you get back to racing soon Dak!
  • 2 0
 There will just be a more sensitve, self-reflective class of genital twiddlers Outside+ Vloggin and floggin in Sprinters
  • 37 12
 Everyone in these situations should always demand multiple tests if they have no symptoms due to the high rate of false positives. This is not a comment on the existence of the virus or a claim Dak doesn’t have Covid. Example: Elon Musk tested positive in one nostril and negative in the other. A virologist I know sent in 200 opened but unused tests and the majority came back positive. I’m not saying we shouldn’t test and understand this may be the best we can do, just a simple fact that false positives exist. Imagine setting world records on the course only to be pulled off mid game due to a false positive test, this happened and similar stories all over the world are happening. Dak was coming off his nationals win and I was looking forward to seeing him on this course that suited him so well. I hope he keeps motivated for Snowshoe!
  • 30 8
 MIT Scientists: PCR test is like rolling the dice. Does not work.

One year later…

CDC: PCR test unreliable. We will stop using it SIX F’n MONTHS FROM NOW.
  • 4 3
 @MmmBones: think yourself lucky you’re not an alpaca
  • 4 1
 Well said
  • 7 0
 @MmmBones: PCR is not even a test.
  • 6 0
 Agree..happened to my mom 1 positive (with remarks of potentially non conclusive) and one negative..in two days.. i think people are not trained properly sometimes and of course the pcrs per se are not that realiable
  • 8 3
 Well when you have minute trace samples of proteins and put them 40+ amplification cycles, who knows what they are detecting? Many expert scientists in the field say that the tests should not go over 30 amplification cycles. Even WHO changed their guidelines on decreasing amplification cycles in January 2021 because of so many false positives, but I still think different testing facilities are using different amplification cycle guidelines, so there is no standard.
  • 13 1
 @tacklingdummy: You are right that the 40 cycle threshold is very high. Typically with pcr you cut off in the low 30's. However the COVID PCR tests amplify 4 separate targets and for the test to be considered positive 3 of them have to all amplify below 40 cycles. The probability that 3 of the 4 erroneously amplify is extremely low.

COVID PCR tests have >99% sensitivity and >99.9% specificity. Meaning they successfully identify a sample with virus in it 99% of the time and say they test positive when the specimen is truly negative 0.1% of the time.

However, the timing of testing is very important since the virus peaks in nasal passages around day 5-6 testing too soon can give you a false negative and testing to late can also give you a false negative.

Finally, testing and interpreting test results can be a bit challenging because it requires bayesian inference and most doctors frankly even don't understand what we call positive predictive value (PPV). In basic terms if you have 0 have no covid symptoms and no known exposure and you are immunized then the likelihood that postive test results is real is very low (ie likely a false positive). In contrast if you have COVID symptoms, have a known exposure to someone else with COVID and are unvaccinated (though vaccinated even as well) and you get a negative test result the likelihood that the result is real is lower (ie possible false negative)
  • 2 1
 @ppp9911: So, the RT-PCR machines you are working with are 99% accurate, but there is still a gray area of interpretation of the results and timing of sample (stage of the disease). Wouldn't you say that is the disconnect and inaccuracy of the test?


www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: The challenge that the WHO are referring to is valid but in a more narrow context. What I am referring to here is the volume of tests being performed, hence the last paragraph where I discussed the bayesian statistics (PPV) requiring a bigger clinical and epidemiological picture.

The individual test accuracy is >99.9% accurate for a positive (this is the specificity piece) however with 10's of thousands of tests being performed every week where I live you would expect that even with 99.9% specificity you would end up with a fraction of cases with a false positive test result (if 10,000 tests were performed you would expect ~10 false positives) and you would expect the true false positives to be those with lower levels of viral RNA (high cycle threshold).

So, yeah the CT value is not unimportant but the test still performs really well.
  • 23 1
 No follow up tests to see if it’s a false positive?
  • 12 41
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:10) (Below Threshold)
 Great point
  • 40 7
 @ReeferSouthrland: considering you think the only trustworthy sources of medical information are Facebook groups run by Russian bots, we couldn't care less what you think is a good point.
  • 3 6
 From a vaccine management perspective, there's no such thing as a false positive. It's time to quarantine.

In reality, the false positive rate is very close to zero. It's miniscule. The likelihood of that test being a false pos are so tiny that you'd just move on to taking steps to prevent spread of the virus. There's no real point to doing a confirmatory second test—if the second test is negative, which do you believe, especially given that the false negativity rate is considerably higher than the false positivity rate? Even if second and third tests were negative, that wouldn't prove a false pos. The test is extremely unlikely to detect something that isn't there, though it does have a somewhat higher potential to miss something that is there. It just doesn't make any sense to go running a bunch of additional tests, when it's not going to change your course of action at all.
  • 3 11
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 11:40) (Below Threshold)
 @BrambleLee: What reality are you in , there have been false positives on every vaccine dating back to 1796. Good thing there isn't a smallpox lamda variant the media can scare idiots with.
  • 4 10
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 11:44) (Below Threshold)
 @emarquar: What is facebook? You children say the dumbest things.
  • 12 0
 @ReeferSouthrland:
1) I wrote "From a vaccine management perspective" but meant to write "virus management." I'm only talking about testing here—what I'm saying has nothing to do with vaccination. My bad for the typo, because I think it led you to think you were saying something that made sense about vaccines. Let me clarify that for you—you didn't make any f*cking sense. It's total word salad, like just about everything else I've seen you write today.

2) Read what I wrote, dumbass. False positivity is very close to zero. Not non-existent, but certainly rare enough that it's not very worthwhile to chase down whether someone has a false pos or not. You presume they have the virus, urge them to quarantine and monitor symptoms, and move on. Someone returns a positive test, you treat it like a positive, because we've got a novel virus that's f*cking killing people, so you don't f*cking worry about whether someone has to miss a little bit of work, or god forbid a bike race, or otherwise be mildly inconvenienced. You take steps to minimize the chances of that person spreading the virus.

3) I can tell you're part of the "do your own research" crowd, the don't believe the media crowd. But you're a f*cking idiot who can barely string together a coherent sentence—what makes you think you can make any sense of your "own research" anyway?

4) Go f*ck yourself, Reefer.
  • 1 4
 @BrambleLee: Just off work and great ride afterwards. What are you flapping bout stunad baby boy? What a moron teeeheee
  • 17 1
 Didn't know there were so many Doctors and scientists on pinkbike.... crazy
  • 3 0
 When the news stories are slow we all shit post on WebMD, you should come check it out.
  • 7 0
 Hey, Dentists are doctors (technically).
  • 11 3
 Had my 2nd jab earlier today. When does the zombie apocalypse start and what side am I on?
  • 8 1
 Team weasel obviously, we will also allow stoats, ferrets and otters no questions asked
  • 3 0
 @catweasel: Team Cat all the way never look back. Or...?
  • 13 8
 You can go to any poster's profile page, scroll to the bottom and you can find a link to report them to pinkbike staff. Some of the posters on this board need to crawl back under whatever paranoid, conspiratorial rock it was they slithered out of.
  • 12 7
 are you the guy that plugs his ears with his fingers and says "lalalalalalala" real loud to end arguments with friends?
  • 5 1
 @MT36 Did not know that, cheers Beer
  • 14 9
 Seriously. At this point if some anti-vax, conspiracy theorist numbskull dies from Covid I just don't really care at this point. I just see it as a slight contribution to the increase of global intelligence. This goes for my own family members too.
  • 7 3
 We all need to chill out a bit. Kinda disturbing how often I'm seeing people wishing death on their fellow citizens because of different opinions. Talk to your doctor, get vaccinated, stay safe, and realize that you only have control over yourself at the end of the day. Obsessing over other's decisions is a waste of time.
  • 8 4
 @DylanH93: No one is wishing for death. They're saying that if you want to be a dumbass and get yourself sick that's on you and they're not shedding any tears over it. (using you generally, not direct at you personally, btw)

The problems here that we for some reason have to keep harping about are a) this isn't a difference of opinion issue, where both opinions are valid. One is fact and evidence based, and the other issue conspiratorial delusion. Flat earth is not a valid opinion. Nor is 1+1=3. And b) this shit is contagious. Personal decisions are not personal. Unvaccinated morons put countless other's lives at risk. Their selfish ignorance deserves less than 0 respect and tolerance, because of their callous disregard for the wellbeing of anyone but themselves.
  • 2 1
 @emarquar: Intelligently and succinctly said.
  • 3 1
 @emarquar: I do agree with you a lot. But number one, this has always been the case. Obesity kills millions, it's easily preventable, but we don't keep talking about how little we care if they die. And number two, the much bigger issue, is that we already have a solution here. It was one thing when people didn't care before vaccines were available. Get the vaccine and you're safe. There's no longer a need to worry about your neighbors decision when you can guarantee your safety. And in terms of variants, that's not going away anytime soon. There's an entire world where variants will continue to spread, even if the US and west had 100% vaccine rates. We'll adjust the vaccines if necessary and keep moving forward. I get it, there's a difference between wishing death on someone vs continually reminding them how little you'll care about their death, but both are pretty f*cked up imo. We need to get back to being chill with each other instead of treating everyone like the enemy. Some people are simply going to wait to get the vaccine or downright won't get it, simply the consequences of living in a free country. We could be like China where the authoritarian leader snaps his fingers and it's done but that's not us, thankfully..

This attitude is also extremely counter productive. For better or worse Americans are very individualistic. You try to force them to do something and they'll do everything they can to not comply. The trick was selling the vaccine to people and making them want to get it, not threatening them or talking shit to them constantly. It's really no wonder so many aren't complying. They feel Iike something f*cked up is going on. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
  • 2 0
 @DylanH93: Love your work, seriously. Best post I've read on this whole issue.
  • 1 0
 @WishIWazFaster: thank you sir!
  • 1 0
 @DylanH93: Hey man thoughtful post. One thing though, obesity does kill lots of people, but a big difference is that an obese person will not spread their obesity to another person through the air they breath, and then kill them. This is why people are so resentful of non-vaccers. And, there is no guarantee of safety even with the vaccine, so that is why people are all up in their neighbors choices; so there is a real reason to be concerned when your safety is compromised because of someone else's choices.

I would concede that in most circumstances, individualism is a overall positive thing. But if someone is so caught up in their "individualism" that they can't be troubled to man up and take poke in the arm, its not good. While some people are busy being true to their convictions, others of us are dealing with (preventable) death and destruction on a massive scale. If someone thinks that being told to take a safe medicine is akin to living in a totalitarian state, you need to calm down.
  • 1 0
 Agree. I'm over it. These whackos are free to do their own natural selection experiment if they want. Too bad they risk others' peoples lives in the meantime.
  • 7 1
 Such a shit show...feel for athletes that are put to the side lines. Must have been harsh for some of of athletes at the Olympics.
  • 7 1
 Wishing you a speedy return and hope you are back in the start gate and back in the mix ASAP.
  • 7 3
 Ya'll all know that science isn't something that needs to be "believed" in if it is correct and provable, right....?

I don't think many rando midwid PBers know this...
  • 13 1
 You know, "science" is a term that often gets thrown around by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Here's the thing, there are no certainties in "science" only degrees of likely. "Science" is in fact the antithesis of belief and purely agnostic. If there are new facts discovered, smart people, you know, scientists, try to interpret what could be the most logical explanation and after lots of debate and checking the best theory is adopted as "as far as we know, it should be like this".

And of course there will be the usual "but that does mean science knows as much as I know" comment.
Our cheesebrain can't comprehend the amount and depth of knowledge humanity has amassed over the last few decades. And I'm not being an a..hole, it's just not possible for one human being to hold all this knowledge. That's the reason universal scholars are no longer a thing. So, if a well educated person, that has sworn an oath to do no harm and dedicated their life to ease and prevent suffering, tells you there is a deadly virus on the lose. It might just be the smart thing to listen.
We can debate about the severity of counter measures and the execution of those an all that. But it feels like the
pandemic and all the other conspiracy theories are just a prop that certain instigators and/or political movements like to wield to wall themselves off and intensivy the group dynamic among themselves. Outrage porn and fear sells like hot cake, giving our brittle and battered society the rest after a decade of ever increasing wealth inequality.
I just wish all the conspiracy theorists would take a step back and reflect on what they are doing, what the consequences are if they are in the wrong, and perhaps most importantly why they are doing this.
Reality isn't easy, it's not black and white, it's dirty, gritty and exhausting. Instead of being a nuisance for others, why not connect with people that need help? Why not be a pillar for society instead of a pee stain?
/Rant over
  • 3 1
 And I just realized that I addressed the wrong person and down voted you as well. (trying to fake canadian accent) Sorry
  • 5 1
 @whoopsy: Read his other posts. You accidentally addressed the right person Beer
  • 2 4
 @whoopsy: Yeah, but there still is a lot of slanted science with ulterior motives (mainly money) out there. A lot of very powerful entities push self-serving narratives. There are tons of science and medical journals out there that are very weak science and very slanted. Most scientists are wired to question science research findings and be skeptical until all the data is analyzed and it is peer reviewed. Many of the conspiracy theories were started by scientists with a lot of knowledge and experience about the subjects.
  • 5 1
 @tacklingdummy: yeah, I thought about including that side of the coin, but the post was already sooo long.
I think no human construct will ever be perfect, throw in money and power and it is pretty much a given that there will be shady business.
That said, most of the world enjoys the fruits of progress. longer life, plenty of food, clean water, mostly safe medicine, not to mention a great deal of mobility and so on and on. Vaccinations have saved countless people from the pocks, polio, measles and other highly dangerous viruses. Antibiotics are crucial for so many patients (I'm aware of the misuse of antibiotics)
There isn't really an other way to keep improving the capabilities of humanity I can think of, so we need to reform certain aspects of the current system to ensure it will serve us in the future. Moving away, or at least dampen the influence from the all encompassing money motiv would be a huge first step.
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: also, your last sentence is complet bs and you know it. Any crackpot worth his salt claims to be a scientist.
  • 1 6
flag tacklingdummy (Aug 13, 2021 at 5:33) (Below Threshold)
 @whoopsy: My last sentence is bs? Lol.

There are several examples of viable "theories" that are labeled as conspiracy theories because the media, world leaders, world health officials, and world health agencies labeled it as conspiracy theories. Then many guys like yourself are parroting the same stuff you see. Knee-jerk reactions without researching and looking at all the possibilities and data. Here is just one example of a viable theory labeled as conspiracy theory that was started and supported by many well known scientists. There are many more.

The Wuhan Lab Leak:

In the beginning of the pandemic many well known scientists (former CDC Director and Virologist: Dr. Robert Redfield Virologist, Chinese Virologist Li-Meng Yan (who work with the Wuhan Lab in Hong Kong), among other scientists) brought up the theory that the COVID virus could have possibly leaked from the lab. They were met with major backlash from the liberal media, world leaders, world health officials, scientists, and world health agencies. Fast forward to May 2021 and new intelligence report comes out that three employees from Wuhan Lab were sick with COVID symptoms in Nov 2019 and the Wuhan Lab Leak is even more plausible. Now you have those same people liberal media, world leaders, world health officials, scientists, and world health agencies that were slamming it as conspiracy theory, now saying it is a very viable possibility.

www.livescience.com/covid-lab-leak-wuhan.html
www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfield-no-evidence
www.ndtv.com/world-news/covid-19-chinese-virologist-says-fauci-emails-prove-her-wuhan-lab-leak-claims-2457013
  • 4 1
 @tacklingdummy:
1st: You know nothing about me, so f you for putting words in my mouth.
2nd: I don't remember seeing any "liberal" media dismissing that possibility without any known facts in either direction. That is more of a "right" practice. Several governments and several neutral international committees all demanded access to investigate the pandemics roots. What the media objected to was an unproven accusation.
  • 1 2
 @whoopsy: What words did I put in your mouth? Lol. You said this about me " also, your last sentence is complet bs and you know it. "
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: "Then many guys like yourself are parroting the same stuff you see. Knee-jerk reactions without researching and looking at all the possibilities and data." you said that

You said this about me " also, your last sentence is complet bs and you know it"
Yeah, there is a difference between claiming you know what I do and how I think, and someone calling out your bs statement. it's not even a conspiracy theory, we just don't know what happened or where it came from.
And thanks to the Chinese repressive regime we probably never will.
I'm done here, have a nice day
  • 1 4
 @whoopsy: So, you want to see some really interesting data. According to the WHO data, influenza (flu) cases have virtually disappeared. Normally there are about 1 billion cases of flu per year worldwide. Now they have disappeared.

apps.who.int/flumart/Default?Hemisphere=Southern&ReportNo=5
  • 4 1
 @tacklingdummy: proof that the masks work, no?
  • 3 1
 @MOBrules: LoL These clowns are something else eh? All the precautions people have been taking due to COVID have directly affected the number of people getting the flu. It's not a conspiracy. It's reality.
  • 1 2
 @MOBrules: If it is proof that the masks work the why are covid cases exploding when covid and Influenza are transmitted the exact same ways?

Influenza has a infection rate of R1-2, covid R2-3. Influenza is still very contagious.

Do you really think masks are only Influenza specific?
  • 1 2
 @m1dg3t: Both covid and flu are transmitted the same exact ways.

Again why are covid cases exploding if all those measures worked on the influenza? covid cases should be down as well.

Please explain your reality. I'd like to hear your argument.
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy:
You want to hear our arguments to then ignore them and move straight to the next bs harebrained statement.
Waste of time and effort. why don't you invest some of your obviously abundant free time and learn biology and biochemistry? Warning, you might learn something.
  • 1 2
 @whoopsy: Why don't you have any explanations? All you do is throw stones with no debate.

FYI: I have a Biological Sciences degree and worked in science research at Stanford before and in pharmacy. What is your science background?
  • 1 1
 @whoopsy: Where are your arguments. I haven't seen any. This is a topic worth debating.
  • 2 2
 @whoopsy: I noticed you haven't responded in a bit. Got your data & sources ready for that whole "Masks made the flu go away, but not Covid" thing?
  • 3 1
 @blowmyfuse: you are so close to understanding the meaning of the r value...
@tacklingdummy:
Sure you have a degree, that's why you struggle to understand basic logical principles and argue with randoms on the internet instead of filing your concerns with the proper authorities. I'm not responsible to explain every damn study you don't understand, I'm not responsible for any study made by anyone else. If you have concerns you should contact the authors.
I'm out of here, don't expect any more answers.
  • 3 1
 People need to get their brains rewired. The majority of what I'm hearing from these anti vaxxers is "It's not a big deal if I get sick, so why be afraid?" THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!! the point is that by you expressing your individual freedom you are putting everyone around you at risk of contracting a deadly disease.

If you have a problem with the science behind vaccines I suggest you start to question everything else you take for granted in your life. Your doctor is definitely f*cking with you. You should stop eating everything that isn't grown in your back yard. Definitely stop riding a bike (you're an engineer, you can design your own bike!). Seriously what the f*ck is science anyway? Go out in a blaze of glory like Mike Hughes.

Someone close to me just got sick and they were vaccinated and mask everywhere they go. What's the harm in wearing a mask? Seriously, I want to know why it's so hard. And no, a mask probably doesn't keep you safe, but it might prevent you from getting someone else from catching... THAT'S THE POINT!!!
  • 9 6
 Did I miss the part that says whether he is vaccinated and if this is a breakthrough infection. Hopefully he is vaccinated and symptoms will be minimal.
  • 4 28
flag yupstate (Aug 12, 2021 at 5:36) (Below Threshold)
 Wouldn't that make him the dreaded "super-spreader"?
  • 4 0
 With the amount of freakin dickheads PB are giving a voice to recently you would think they are trying to push us away.
  • 1 2
 By Felicia!!!
  • 6 2
 Wonder if he could test again? Possible it’s a false positive?
  • 30 29
 pinkbike - why do you allow all these anti-science, conspiracy theory based off topic comments to stand? clean this shit up and get some control over your website.
  • 25 15
 Why are you trying to sensor people with a different point of view? Right, wrong, or totally insane...everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I think if you want to start that game, you better just show down PB comments all together. People are getting way too aggressive over this topic. Make your own choices, and back the f*ck off
  • 8 10
 And my comment was specifically about freedom of speech and opinion, not Covid, so everybody put your syringes away
  • 6 8
 What science? Please direct me to real science of COVID studies links that they are basing the COVID regulations on. I would like to read them.
  • 2 6
flag Mntneer (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:39) (Below Threshold)
 Literally a fucking dork
  • 9 4
 @sdaly: science is not a matter of opinion and letting every dumbass mouth off about it is exactly why we are still in this mess. We'd all be enjoying a return to normal if we didn't coddle 30% of the population that hasnt gotten vaccinated because freedumb. This is misinformation masquerading as free speech and "just a harmless opinion". It obfuscates and sows doubt in science and influences others not to get vaccinated or wear masks and prolongs the pandemic and causes needless death. If covid/vaccine/mask misinformation only hurt the authors of that misinformation then I'd be happy to let them off themselves with their stupidity, but since this is a transmisible disease it doesn't fall under harmless idiotic opinions. It's misinformation and it's killing people and wrecking our economy
  • 2 1
 @freestyIAM: just a bit of science to dispel some of that unbacked information you were spouting. Seems like you are just as likely to continue spreading the disease even with the vaccine. so your vaccine is really only to curb your hospital stay since it obviously doesn't eliminate the spread.

www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html
  • 3 0
 I’m just here for the comments…

Get well soon Norton.
  • 2 2
 he's not ill.
  • 3 1
 So was this a breakthrough case of covid or is he a never-vaxxer?
  • 5 7
 Vaccine only gives you a 60% chance of not getting covid, but increases your chances of not getting seriously ill by 95%, so he's just in the unluckly 40% to actually get it while being vaxxed.
  • 3 1
 @mattyb84: but is he vaccinated though?
  • 7 4
 @mattyb84: What kind of janky vaccine did you take that's only 60% effective?
  • 3 2
 @matadorCE:

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960

"Figures from Public Health Scotland published in the Lancet also show a drop in protection against symptomatic illness,5 from 92% against the alpha variant, which was first detected in the UK, to 79% against delta among people with two doses of the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine. For the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine, the reduction was from 73% to 60%. Data from Canada, yet to be peer reviewed, also show a drop in efficacy.6"
  • 2 1
 @mattyb84: Where is the link to the real studies that prove those statistics? I would like to read them.
  • 5 2
 @tacklingdummy: they are all cited on the bottom of the BMJ (british medical journal) link i posted above the quote. The important takeaway from the studies are that the vaccines stop serious illness... you might still get covid, but you'll most likely be reduced to flu like symptoms at worst if you've had a double vaccine dose.
  • 4 9
flag blowmyfuse (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:17) (Below Threshold)
 OK. I am not dismissing the percentage quotes as opinion (and no I've not taken any Covid vaccine), but anyone who loves to document data points & statistics ACCURATELY would be so frustrated by the lack of sound evidence for making those statements.

95% effective? How? Is someone spraying Covid particles up their nose 2 weeks after their second dose and monitoring their biological data from that point forward for the next several months and attempting to re-infect them periodically to see how long that 2nd dose takes to wear off.

Leading your life and not contracting a virus or testing positive for it after having gotten one or two shots isn't science. It's an extrapolation of data and an assumptive proposition at best.

Surely there is someone on this site that conducts actual research with control groups in an organized manner that can better state what I'm getting at.

Sure, at some point this virus is going to curtail itself through for all sorts of biological reasons. But these percentages being tossed around within weeks or months of getting a shot are so inaccurate.

Variance...that's the word I'm looking for. The percentage variance of accuracy if these were conducted scientifically and posted with the findings would be through the roof.

The math bugs me. Not the desire to prove or disprove anything.
  • 8 3
 @blowmyfuse: Its basic statistics, like, you* learn this when you're 13. I dont even need to look at the studies to see the effectiveness of the vaccine, i can look at the cases graph vs the hospitalisations vs deaths, and you can work out how effective they are. But, the links above do offer research and peer reviewed (yes, thats by people that know what they're talking about, rather then you) papers.
  • 2 7
flag tacklingdummy (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:36) (Below Threshold)
 @mattyb84: But then there is this statement from your article.

"Marr recovered but some have not. Data from Public Health England (PHE) reveal that of all the people who died within 28 days of testing positive for the delta variant between 1 February and 19 July, 49% (224) had had two vaccine doses. Almost all of these people, 220, were aged 50 or older."

So, 49% died after having two vaccine doses. That is conflicting data from the 95% chance of not getting seriously ill after being vaccinated.
  • 7 1
 @tacklingdummy: That isn't what that stat says. This is the problem - people are just too stupid to understand basic mathmatics, and the context around the numbers.

The content in this case is, between 1 feb and 19 july, 553 people died of covid in England, with a positive covid test within 28 days. Of those 553, 49% had been vacinated. Now, that is to be expected, given that by mid march, 85% of our over 50s had one dose at least, with the higher risk over 60/70s etc having the second dose complete by the end of Feb. so, based on that: 229 of 15% died of covid, where only 224 of the remaining 85% died of covid. This is not a difficult subject.
  • 9 1
 @tacklingdummy: You obviously don't understand how to interpret statistics. "49% of those who died were vaccinated" is not the same as "49% of those vaccinated died."

Maybe a hypothetical extreme will help you better understand. Say we have a community of 100,000 people, with a 100% vaccination rate. Now let's say that ten people from that community became severely ill from COVID. We could make the statement that 100% of the people who became severely ill were vaccinated. Does that make the vaccine ineffective? In this hypothetical situation, the vaccine is 99.99% effective against severe illness, because only .01% of the vaccinated population became severely ill, so I'd consider it highly effective.
  • 1 0
 @mattyb84: So 60% with AstraZeneca, not overall.
  • 3 1
 @matadorCE: my point was having the vaccine doesn’t mean you won’t get Covid. All of them are less effective against the delta variant for infection, what matters is they offer excellent protection against disease!
  • 2 3
 @mattyb84: First of all the data you are posting in your comment is not in the article "that 85% over 50s had one dose by mid-March and with 60/70s having second dose by end Feb." Where is it in the article? Secondly, the term "vaccinated" means that they had two doses. People that have had only one dose are not considered or labeled as "vaccinated" so your statistic is not part of the study or even applies. Thirdly, the quote from Spiegelhalter making sense of the 49% vaccinated deaths suggests that the" less-than-perfect vaccines have been distributed widely, one would expect to see deaths occurring among vaccinated people"
  • 2 3
 @e-fro: 49% of the people who died in the sample were vaccinated. That is a fact. Even the quote in the article from Spiegelhalter states that "less-than-perfect vaccines have been distributed widely, one would expect to see deaths occurring among vaccinated people" when making sense of the 49% of the people who died in the sample were vaccinated.
  • 2 0
 @mattyb84: Yeah, that's how virus mutations work. That doesn't mean the vaccines are useless.
  • 4 1
 @tacklingdummy: it’s in the actual papers cited on the article. You’re just a bloody idiot.
  • 1 4
 @mattyb84: Please, tell me which one and which page. I don't want to reach hundreds of pages to find it. Name-calling is just the lowest form of debate. Debate the subject, don't go to pathetic low levels by calling me stupid and idiot.
  • 2 4
 @mattyb84: You are the one that doesn't know basic statistics. If the vaccines decrease serious illness by 95% like you stated in your comment, then statistically 49% of vaccinated people dying in the sample is quite high. The percentage should be much lower.

Just like I said before, your article quotes Spiegelhalter which says " less-than-perfect vaccines have been distributed widely, one would expect to see deaths occurring among vaccinated people". So he is acknowledging the fact that the 49% is a high percentage death rate for vaccinated.
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: Again... the point isn't that 49% of vaccinated people died. 49% of the people who died in that sample had been vaccinated. The majority of the population has been vaccinated. With a 95% efficacy rate (less than perfect, still a stellar percentage), of course, people will still die. He is acknowledging that they still expect people to die, despite being vaccinated. The very next sentence is "And so far, in contrast to the winter when far fewer people had received vaccines, the rate of hospital admissions and deaths in the UK is not rising as sharply as cases." In other words, cases are going up, hospitalizations/deaths are slowing down with the vaccines (which is the point).

If you consider that the majority of the population there is vaccinated compared to not, and this sample is accounting for hospitalized people that died in general, that means that the percentage of people that died who were unvaccinated is going to be greatly higher than the number of people from the percentage of vaccinated people would be. Yes, the number of deaths was almost split 50/50, but the pool size of vaccinated people is MUCH higher than those without it. Currently, almost 90% of people in England have been vaccinated, yet still, 60% of hospitalizations are from unvaccinated people. 10% of the population has held out, yet they account for more than half of the current hospitalizations.

TL,DR Vaccines are there to help, and they are helping a lot.
  • 3 3
 I like that there is absolutely no consideration for those who already have antibodies as being "self-vaccinated" and being lumped into the herd immunity statistics.

It's as if healthy people capable of successfully fending off a virus just don't count toward anything. They don't get to go on planes, trains or back to work. Nope...they're just anti-vaxxers. They don't exist.

Next, amazing how none of the reductions in deaths is due to the virus having been checked by medical professionals who have learned to treat it.

A virus that made it to every continent in less than 12 weeks and the only thing that slows it down is a pharmaceutical grade synthetic nanoparticle coated spike protein that has to be injected twice.

Guess the virus couldn't have possibly run through the high risk people already and will begin to ebb and flow like other aerosol transmitted viruses
  • 4 2
 @blowmyfuse: Get the vaccine, period. Doesn't matter if you've "successfully fended it off" before.
  • 3 2
 @leon-forfar: Obviously, 49% of vaccinated people did not die. LOL. Again....you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that. Re-read the above comments. What I did say was the 49% of the people who died in the study (224 people) were vaccinated with two doses of the vaccine which is listed in the article. Statistically, the 49% vaccinated deaths should be much lower if the vaccines are 95% effective against serious illness like @mattyb84 stated.

FYI: Your statement , "this sample is accounting for hospitalized people that died in general" is not true. The study sample was "all the people who died within 28 days of testing positive for the delta variant between 1 February and 19 July."

The facts are that of the sample 49% of the people who died were vaccinated and 51% of the people who died were unvaccinated. Also, according to the article below only 68% of the UK population was fully vaccinated as of 19 July the time the study sampling ended not 90% like you state.

You should re-read the study and my comments.

Also, the vaccines are still not approved by FDA in the US. So, they still have questions and have to analyze the data.


www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/19/are-enough-people-vaccinated-in-time-for-englands-freedom-day
  • 3 1
 @tacklingdummy: "Marr recovered but some have not. Data from Public Health England (PHE) reveal that of all the people who died within 28 days of testing positive for the delta variant between 1 February and 19 July, 49% (224) had had two vaccine doses. Almost all of these people, 220, were aged 50 or older."

Note the 50 or older. I think you'll find my vaccine rate statistics are correct, given the data you're arguing with. Over 50s, not the whole adult population (that starts at 18 by the way, just in case you need extra help). Laters dude, you're not smart enough to win this argument.
  • 1 2
 @mattyb84: Yeah I agree, your straw man fallacies are not comprehensible.
  • 3 3
 @matadorCE: what?

What kind of small minded, idiotic statement is that?
Are you seriously spouting something off that unintelligent?

You really think that a body that was ALREADY exposed to the actual virus needs to then be exposed to a synthetic lipid nano-particle coated spike protein too?

What in the name of brain cells being wasted is your proof for even spouting such garbage?
  • 2 2
 Any decent person who received the vaccine would disclose the status so the people they have been around can be at ease knowing they were exposed. But in his case he chose not to disclose his vaccine status which is a prick move whether you got it or not. Think he’s speeding this to anyone in close contact.
  • 3 2
 @tacklingdummy: you don’t read any of the studies…we all know.
  • 2 1
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: if you already had covid, what do you have to fear in getting the vaccine?? Unless you're suffering from long covid symptoms that include reduced brain function.
  • 2 4
 @matadorCE: you didn't answer the question.

Why do you need to take a synthetic lipid nano-particle coated spike protein if you already had Covid and have antibodies?

www.vaxlonghaulers.com
  • 2 2
 @blowmyfuse: Why not? What is it that you're really afraid of?
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: Sorry I should have said "this sample is accounting for hospitalized people that died in general during that time period". I thought that was pretty clear that we were talking about that. Correct, just shy of 70% had been vaccinated at that point, but the modeling lines up with where we are at today. The vaccines are greatly helping, and it is becoming more and more clear that the unvaccinated are making up the majority of cases and serious illness/ death, yet make up the minority of the general population.

Even with 70% vaccinated during this period, only 0.000005% of people that were vaccinated died compared to 0.00001 who were unvaccinated. The percentage of unvaccinated people dying is exponentially higher than those who have been vaccinated. The fact that 30% of the population led to a higher death count over that period than the 70% who were vaccinated is crazy. And that only gets more ridiculous now that they are at 90% vaccinated and still unvaxxed are making up the majority of hospitalized people.

I'm not really sure what you are arguing at this point, other than vaccinated people made up almost half of the deaths during that time, which excludes the fact that 224 deaths out of ~39 million vaccinated people (at the time) compared to 230ish people out of ~16.5 million people
  • 1 2
 @leon-forfar: The study sample of the deaths is a reflection of all the deaths in the UK. It is just like a voting poll taken to try to predict how an election will go. Yes, the sample size of the study is small and more data needs to be gathered and analyzed. However, with this study's data you can still gain a lot of knowledge from it, hence why they did the study. So yes, 49% of the deaths were unvaccinated in the study is quite surprising and concerning.
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy: *sigh* Well clearly @mattyb84 was right; you don't understand how basic statistics work. You cannot look at only the death count and come to a conclusion, without taking into account the total amount of people vaxxed vs non vaxxed. You cannot deny that a MUCH lower percentage of people vaccinated ended up dying compared to those who were not. It's not even close or surprising...
  • 2 4
 @leon-forfar: So, you want to see some really interesting data. According to the WHO data, influenza (flu) cases have virtually disappeared. Normally there are about 1 billion cases of flu per year worldwide. Now they have disappeared.

apps.who.int/flumart/Default?Hemisphere=Southern&ReportNo=5
  • 1 3
 @tacklingdummy: magic right?
  • 2 2
 @blowmyfuse: I'm just showing the data. Food for thought. People can draw their own conclusions about it. I'm sure I'll get major backlash for it. Lol.
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: Username checks out! Wanna take a guess as to why flu cases have virtually disappeared the last 2 seasons? Do you think it may have something to do with the masking, social distancing, increased hand washing & general disinfecting, etc that we've been doing as a result of COVID? Or is it all part of the plan to reduce population and exert control over who's left? LoL
  • 1 1
 @m1dg3t: That argument does not hold weight. First, they are not mutually exclusive. Second, the infection rate of influenza is R1-2 and Covid is R2-3. Influenza is still very contagious. Both viruses are transmitted the same exact way. Yes, for all the covid measures implemented, Influenza cases would go down, but not to the point of virtually disappearing and covid cases would not be exploding at the same time. 30 to 40% decrease in flu cases with implemented measures would be extremely substantial, but 99% down is not believable.

Thanks for the username compliment. I worked in science research at Stanford before, and have a science degree. Wink
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: It's not an argument. It's facts. Coupled with higher (record level) flu vaccination rates and we get were we are today. Are you an infectious disease expert? If not, don't pretend to be.

PS: I was awarded full scholarship at MIT and MENSA made me an honorary member, all before I was 12, but I turned it down because they're a bunch of leftist snowflakes.

LoL
  • 1 2
 @m1dg3t: What facts? There are not hard facts to explain why 99% of influenza cases are down. They are just possible theories that covid measures and the vaccines decreased the influenza cases 99% down. Theories are not facts. Someone who got a full scholarship to MIT and MENSA honorary member. should know the difference between a theory and fact.

The influenza vaccinations are only 40-60% effective. Coupled with covid measures (that are transmitted in the same way), one would reasonable not conclude that influenza cases would be 99% down and covid cases are exploding.

Are you a disease expert? You should pretend to be either. I am just posting opinions as you are. Wink
  • 1 2
 @m1dg3t: One more thing to add. Yes, there were record flu vaccination rates. However, nothing extraordinary. According to CDC, 193.8M vaccines given by Feb 29, 2021. That is only 59% of the population of the US. In 2018-2019 season 48% of the population received the flu vaccine and 2019-2020 45%. Nothing close to 99% and again flu vaccines are only 40-60% effective.
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: appreciate you staying what people with common sense can extrapolate.

Completely sucks that people would think that flu was eliminated from the air and respiratory viruses stopped transmitting because of masks but Covid was able to sneak past the paper mask goalie.
  • 1 1
 @blowmyfuse: Just trying to put the real information out there. On that WHO Flunet site, you have to click on the blue button upper right corner (Click here for any week(s) chart) to see the real data chart of about three years for both Northern and Southern Hemisphere.


Northern Hemisphere

apps.who.int/flumart/Default?Hemisphere=Northern&ReportNo=5

Southern Hemisphere

apps.who.int/flumart/Default?Hemisphere=Southern&ReportNo=5
  • 1 1
 @tacklingdummy:

Is this the visual you were trying to post? I copied and pasted and yeah..."poof".

www.pinkbike.com/photo/21143094
  • 1 1
 @blowmyfuse: Yep that is the one. There is one for the Southern Hemisphere as well. Both are very interesting charts when looking at the 3-year window. Flu disappeared at same time around the world.
  • 2 2
 @tacklingdummy: Facebook blocked my post for putting up page 19 of the Public Health England's data on deaths from Alpha versus all other strains along with the link to the official government doc:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/21154601
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm trying to learn everything. Heck...I just found out the "experimental lipid non-particle coated spike protein vaccine trials" aren't FDA Approved, they only have Emergency Use Authorization. Wheeee.
  • 1 1
 @blowmyfuse: Unbelievable. It is not like posting from some conspiracy website. It is the government data!! I don't get it. Nothing is making sense these days.
  • 2 0
 I wanna go to the World Championshsips, never heard of them before lol
  • 1 0
 Damn this sucks. He was doing great on my fantasy team. Hope he gets to compete at World Champs.
  • 2 0
 Well that escalated quickly
  • 3 3
 Did he get vaccinated? If not, is he even sorry for spreading the virus to high risk patients and putting all other racers at risk? Unreal
  • 2 2
 Hey, your the guy that calls certain individuals racist and then doesn’t provide any evidence to support your claim. Now you’re calling out Norton for “spreading the virus to high risk patients and putting all other racers at risk” without any evidence of him getting or not getting the vaccine. Seems like you make a lot of assumptions, and you know what that does right???
  • 2 1
 @Rageingdh: yours sentences don’t make a lot of sense. It’s clear Norton made a conscious choice not disclose his vaccine status (which only lead people to believe he didn’t take it) and thus the GLOBAL ROAST he’s receiving here. I would make a further point and pressure sponsors and UCI to keep guys like Northon from spreading COVID.
  • 1 2
 @Batipapo: you can’t understand what I wrote?? Tell me what doesn’t make sense to you. I’ll gladly break it down for ya.
  • 2 1
 @Rageingdh: why argue with trolls like you? Your science is whacked and you can’t even get the fact that Norton is being heavily roasted over his stupidity (either didn’t get the vaccine or didn’t disclose to the public). Do you have any meaningful vaccine scientific facts to share? I bet you don’t
  • 2 2
 @Batipapo: I wasn’t aware that we were arguing. I was merely pointing out the fact that you called someone a racist and when you were asked to provide any evidence that the person you were calling a racist was true you didn’t do it. Now you calling me a troll for stating facts and telling me my science is “whacked “. I certainly didn’t state anything that was science related, so that comment seems strange to me. It almost like your trying to make me look bad by changing the subject. I does seem like you’re pretty good at name calling though, so at least you got that going for you.
  • 3 5
 Pinkbike should not hide below threshold comments. Unpopular comments does not mean the comments are not factual, truthful or offensive. Hiding comments just tries to smother free speech. Let the comments stand as they were written.
  • 4 2
 Brovid
  • 15 5
 Dakovid Norton.
  • 2 1
 It is a shame that you are unable to compete on this one :/
  • 19 19
 I am only wondering why he wasn't vaccinated? Everybody in the rich countries should have had a chance to get a jab by now.
  • 23 124
flag nug12182 (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:18) (Below Threshold)
 Maybe hes not a dumbass. To each their own. MYOB.
  • 8 4
 FWIW, the vaccine rollout in Australia is a complete clusterf*ck. With a small population, and immense wealth, we're only like 10% fully vaccinated.
  • 15 2
 @ajayflex: given your government's ineptitude and authoritarian bent, I would say that's better than expected.
  • 6 30
flag colincolin (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:30) (Below Threshold)
 TIL: Being tested positive means you're not vaccinated.
  • 17 63
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:33) (Below Threshold)
 I only know vaccinated people with the "virus" today , real facts.
  • 15 9
 No it doesn’t. Vacation gives your immune system a head start to fight the real infection as you have already made some antibodies from the vaccine exposure. The vaccine thus deacease the severity of the disease as well as decreasing disability and death. With Delta , vaccinated people are shedding vastly more live viruses than pre Delta And unvaccinated more again @colincolin:
  • 9 50
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:52) (Below Threshold)
 @gcrider: I know 5 people right now with a positive Mir is thingy with 2 vaccines. They smoke 2 packs a day and consider it the weakest sinus infection they have ever had. The media is scary though buggaabugga!
  • 10 1
 That’s good that you and the others aren’t ill. Dying is seriously overated @ReeferSouthrland:
  • 8 39
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 2:59) (Below Threshold)
 @gcrider: When did mtb riders get sooo scared of dying?
  • 5 31
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 3:05) (Below Threshold)
 @nug12182: The only real post on here, thank you sir.
  • 11 2
 @ReeferSouthrland: so what, some people who don’t smoke die, what’s your point?
  • 8 38
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 3:51) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: People die from covid complicated by a car accident. Hospitals get compensated for every covid patient they " uncover" . Inflated numbers scare people, you really don't want to know evidently. How did pinkbike turn into Karen central, hahahahaha how do you ride a bike Soo terrified of a media virus.
  • 14 5
 @ReeferSouthrland: looks like you're thinking about the virus more than the media. Stfu and go ride your bike.
  • 20 5
 @ReeferSouthrland: again, read a book and talk to your doctor. Stop preaching lies
  • 4 26
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:11) (Below Threshold)
 @gunnyhoney: Look in the mirror when you tell lies.
  • 4 26
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 4:12) (Below Threshold)
 @giantwhip: I taught you how to read.
  • 4 2
 @literally: literally thank you.
  • 2 0
 For the people who’s minds are suffering, this is sarcasm
  • 8 22
flag in2falling (Aug 12, 2021 at 5:02) (Below Threshold)
 Maybe because he is young and healthy
Has zero risk
He educated himself
Did not want to end up like this Kyle Warner guy, that probably now has permanent heart damage
www.instagram.com/tv/CR-BJLkBtw_
  • 3 16
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 5:07) (Below Threshold)
 @Mntneer: At least one person gets it.
  • 5 2
 @in2falling: Hopefully he heals up from his heart condition.
  • 11 4
 @ReeferSouthrland: You do not heal from myocarditis. When heart muscles are damage it leaves scare tissue and the muscles do not regenerate. He will never be the same. See how many down votes I get here :-) LOL
  • 4 4
 @in2falling: Still pulling for him, fighters usually win.
  • 7 2
 @ReeferSouthrland: your response isn’t that of a balanced individual clearly
  • 4 15
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 5:48) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: Define balanced, wait while you Google that understand I really don't care. Have no negative effects from the plandemic.
  • 2 0
 @cxfahrer Common question
Can you still test positive for COVID-19 after being fully vaccinated?

Yes, if you've been around someone who has COVID-19. The latest guidance from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says people who are fully vaccinated should get tested three to five days after a potential exposure, even if they don't have symptoms.
  • 8 2
 @ReeferSouthrland: You’re not making any sense, did you read “wot you rote” before posting it?
  • 2 9
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 6:38) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: Do you comprehend the words of English mate
  • 5 1
 @ReeferSouthrland: Of course, when used with appropriate grammar and punctuation
  • 3 11
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 6:57) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: Good Boy
  • 1 1
 @ajayflex: Wow that is not great. I just checked Canada which has similar popualtion, wealth and geography and we're at ~ 60%. Not bragging, just wondering what's different. It's not like we have better politicians...
  • 2 2
 @in2falling: he said it was pericarditis not myocarditis and that his cardiologist was confident he would make a full recovery. Are you claiming more knowledge of his particular situation than his cardiologist?
  • 6 2
 @in2falling: Why anyone would down vote your post about Kyle Warner is mind boggling. Thanks for posting the link, just watched it. I think everyone commenting here should have a listen. There's risks with every drug experimental or not, it's up to the patient/user to weigh the risks and make there own decision. Also not being able to hold the companies liable for life changing issues is probably people's number one concern about the vaccine. It's at the top of mine, along with these heart conditions occurring. Hopefully that stipulation changes upon FDA approval.
  • 2 2
 @in2falling: That sucks, I wonder if he was still able to produce the antibodies with such an aggressive immune response? Maybe even a higher amount because of the response?
  • 3 0
 I'm wondering why anyone would assume he's not? He's traveling internationally kinda regularly which would be extremely hard to do as a US WC racer with no vaccine.
It'd be really awesome if people could actually think and not just start pointing fingers and waiting to shame people.
  • 1 7
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 8:47) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: You are sad how can I cheer you up mate.
  • 1 5
flag ReeferSouthrland (Aug 12, 2021 at 11:45) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: You go away troll
  • 4 2
 @ReeferSouthrland: clever come back, lol
  • 1 2
 @jimmythehat: Glad you liked it, are you ok
  • 1 1
 Falling on the footsteps of Qwin . But honestly it’s the Ugly American
  • 1 3
 @Batipapo: Sail to Cuba send a ?
  • 2 1
 Assuming that he remains fully healthy, what a bummer!
  • 1 0
 Maybe time to go out and ride your bike!!
  • 2 1
 Wow what would really suck is if it is a FALSE POSITIVE!!!
  • 1 2
 “When the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind.”

― C. S. Lewis
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