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Does It Matter Where Your Bike Was Built? - Pinkbike Poll

Mar 24, 2017
by Vernon Felton  
As we’re combing the aisles of the Nangang Exhibition Center at the Taipei Cycle Show in search of all that is new and noteworthy, it’s impossible to escape the fact that we’re at ground zero for the bike business. Taiwan, China and, increasingly, places such as Vietnam and Indonesia are the point of origin for more than 90 percent of the bikes that you’ll find rolling around Europe and North America.

We’ve been to factories and seen bike frames nestled alongside one another. These are frames welded by the same people, right here in the same factory…

Taiwan 2017
Photo by Mike Levy

In six months all these frames will wear different paint jobs and stickers, and they’ll be the property of different companies with different slogans and product back stories. It makes my head spin. It also makes me wonder: Do you care where your bike was built? Does the country of origin matter to you or is its birthplace entirely inconsequential?

Does it matter where your bike was built?

If you're riding a full-suspension bike, odds are good that it was born somewhere in Asia. Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Indonesia...these are the places the bike industry heads to when it comes time to actually build bikes. Is that a good thing? A bad thing? An entirely neutral thing? What's your take on it?



Author Info:
vernonfelton avatar

Member since Apr 11, 2014
202 articles

264 Comments
  • 156 3
 When something is crappy quality, people use words similar to "cheap, Chinese...". But really everything is made in China, Taiwan, etc anyway. Take a bike for example, both crappy bikes and high end bikes are made in those countries. The fact that they are made there is completely irrelevant. Same goes for products made in the U.S, just because it is "American made" doesn't mean it's better quality than something made in China. It all depends on the producer's standards and production methods, not to do with the country its made in.
  • 40 0
 Looking at you, Gibson
  • 64 23
 Have to agree, "American Made" cars tend to break a lot quicker than their Asian counterparts
  • 133 6
 I heard the Italians use tomato paste as resin for their carbon bikes.
  • 10 1
 I would rather buy a handbuilt frame from a quality builders shed. Doesn't matter where the shed or workshop is. My darkcycles is 15 years old and still rides as good as any new frame.
  • 37 1
 Totally agree but what is not in this survey is "I'd prefer to buy domestically but i really only care if its built well and comes at a great price"
  • 43 0
 @snoopy24777: Honda and Toyota make more cars in America than the American car companies. And they are all owned by shareholders around the globe. Not sure if it really makes a ton of difference other than giving you redneck cred.
  • 4 0
 @src248: I regret buying both gibsons...
  • 5 0
 @src248: The US made Gibsons are hit and miss, could never find one that felt or sounded good. Now they charge stupid money for a standard? A Carvin or ESP les Paul copy is about 100x better.
  • 14 2
 @Thimk: Lmao, but they look sleek.

Was discussing this the other day, with all the pro American built hype and recent threats of restrictions on imports I'm seeing a huge surge in eastern sellers refusing to ship to America. Likewise American sellers often have a 48states only policy. In Europe there has always been a ton of banter and co-production. No one country gets it done perfectly, but taking the strengths of each we create some amazing things.

UK overbuilds but isn't so accurate, German stuff is accurate as hell but not always pretty, Italian stuff isn't built wonderfully but they have the styles.it goes on.

Anyways, point being we need to keep working with each others strengths and weaknesses as the end product can then become an amazing product. Restrictions are gonna hurt us. Simple example is a pack of led's on eBay. You get like 200 for a few dollars from china, you get about 10 for double the price from the USA.
Working together without forcing restrictions shouldn't be seen as a threat to economies but as an advantage we can work with.
  • 26 3
 When someone says that's cheap Chinese crap etc you have to realise the Chinese Vietnamese etc can make extremely high quality goods. The problem is not where the goods are being made but often the financial pressure being put on the often western manufacturer to keep pricess down in order to maximise there profit. The Chinese manufacturer then makes the goods within the budgetary requirements they are given and if these requirements are solely driven by cost cutting the quality goes down. There is a strong element of racism in anti Asian sentiment too
  • 17 1
 Completely agree. At present, "country of origin" has less to do with overall quality and more to do with pride. We would all love to ride bikes that are "Made in [insert your country here]", but in the end, most of the bikes coming out of Asia are very high quality and affordable. If the quality is there, origin makes little difference.
  • 2 0
 Spot on man. The facilities over there are just manufacturing the products and doing so based on the specs and standards that are given to them. I always here people say shit like "product A is probably made in the same factory as product B, so they are the same". But that could not be further from the truth. Like someone already pointed out the factories over there can make really good products or they can make shit, but that's all dependent on what the company that hires them wants them to build. They only use the materials and specs they are paid to use.
  • 10 10
 @snoopy24777: Trump will send u to prison for this.
  • 8 3
 @snoopy24777: Agreed, American made cars really do seem less reliable.
  • 4 2
 @mohu: While all of his children's companies products are produced out of America. Really love the Do as I say not as I do mentality!
  • 2 0
 @Enzyme: Props to Comparative Advantage! Goods should be produced in the most efficient way in the most efficient place. Erecting barriers to this will result in lower quality and higher cost.
  • 7 0
 @davemays: As someone already pointed out, the brand of a car doesn't determine where it is made. Many "American" cars are made out of the country and many Asian cars are actually built in the US. Toyota and Honda make many of their cars here and have plants all over the country. I know that my Tacoma was built in Texas. Its not about where its made. Its about how its designed and the specs its manufactured too that make one car better than another.
  • 4 3
 Remember when we all saw that kid crash on his Intense Tracer and snap the frame last month?
  • 5 3
 Wasn't going to use automobile quality as a reference... ...oh what the hell, Toyota and Lexus FTW!
  • 6 0
 @snoopy24777: My Lexus never broke. My GMC Sierra never broke apart from the airbagsensors, speakers, light sockets, brakeline, bushingwear and various bits falling off - but then that truck lives on backroads, offroad, beach and in hot, salty, wet andhumid conditions with UV12. 10 years and still going strong. I drove a godawful S-10 330 000miles. Looked and drove like on the first day. Now my experience with VW...
  • 7 1
 With bikes - that is a single engineers/fabricators job. If he/she has long experience in building and riding and a welltooled shop and highly trained fabricators - spectacular bikes happen.


I liked what Intense did before they became just another brand. I love what Foes does. I respect Guerilla Gravity.

I dont like Sweatshop catalog bikes passed off by brands as their own development. Its not just how its made but usually the concept is wrong.
  • 4 2
 @snoopy24777: True, but I'd rather have exciting 4 years in a Vette, Mustang, M3, or S4 (throwing the German brands in because everyone I've owned has fallen apart after warranty is up), rather than drive those boring kitchen appliances on wheels that Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc make.
  • 1 0
 @McNubbin: I love my carvin custom ct3 it plays like a dream!! I also have and Ltd qm100 that I dropped emgs in and it just shreds I only use it when I'm playing drop tuning
  • 3 0
 @multialxndr: Exactly!! You get what you ask for, if the bike bike brands ask an asian builder to go all out then they will, but it seems that the big guys are all building to a pretty low standard. I am in the high end composites game and to be honest, all bikes are built cheap and nasty (they are good products, but there is a lot of room to improve the build)
I think there is room for a builder to bring that higher level of quality to the market, and with direct sales now a reality, it can be price competitive too.
  • 6 5
 @iantmcg: no need for redneck jokes...
Its 2017...hello
  • 6 3
 What does have to do with the country it's produced in are the health and environmental standards that are adhered to. By saying it doesn't matter is basically saying those humans are worth less than these humans and that Mother Nature deserves to be abused.
  • 2 0
 @bat-fastard: Why wouldn't it? A good frame is good frame, as good today as it was when you bought it. Trends change to encourage sales. We'll make it back to the dimensions of your frame are in vouge again.
  • 5 0
 my Intense tazer...came with the frame out of alignment by half an inch..it looked nice tho >.>
  • 1 0
 @jflb: not sure anyone has said that doesn't matter. In fact, numerous people said exactly that it does. What has been suggested is that their are gradients within the spectrum of quality that any factory, regardless of geographic location, can achieve. Health and safety of employees us likely victim to a similar breadth of realities. Choosing the best option we can is the best we can do once we decide to buy a bike. That said, watch the vids that I think Levy posted earlier. That looks like a fairly tidy facility..
  • 1 0
 Couldn't agree more!
  • 1 0
 @Thimk: we wouldn't waste good tomato paste for bikes, pasta is a lot more important!
  • 6 0
 @VwHarman: Our former local Intense dealers have nothing good to say about Intense. Poor ride quality, high warranty claims and a design that clogs with mud, catches stones and jams.

Plenty of North American bike companies have put out crap because they didn't pay enough to get the best engineers, designers and trades people working for them. Too often they think people should work for less to work in the bike industry because its cool or they just can't compete with bigger industries.

Young inexperienced trades people especially are willing to work for less for the discounts and access to factory seconds, prototypes and usable warranty returns.

Its a myth to think you want hardcore riders designing and building your bikes and parts. You want them to have input from outside the factory floor and excellent welders and machinists making the stuff.
  • 3 0
 @VwHarman: I saw factories in Taiwan that you could eat off the floors, benches and machines in with very high safety standards. We saw some poor ones too but they were vendors our parent company used for their department store shit not the product we were representing.

they wanted us to assess those cheaper vendors for the high end line. We were able to disqualify them for lack of quality and process control only after one of them caused the full mid season runs of several key frame models to be destroyed due to contamination of the alloy tube sets.
  • 2 1
 @multialxndr: really? Is it people making snarky comments on the Internet that are racists.....or is it the folks who put a 7 year old child to work in a factory that are?
  • 2 0
 @davemays:
Really? Why does the Honda Accord always score high on reliability?
  • 1 0
 @davemud: for sure. I'll take qualified tradespeople doing the work all day. I wouldn't mind an experienced rider being involved in specing a bike though...
  • 1 0
 @src248: So much of what makes Gibson suck as a company is the jackass that runs it. There are some knobs that work there for sure, but there's some fine folks as well. It's set up that people don't have a chance to give a shit after a certain point. The bad ideas are forced, the funding isn't there, the management was terrible, and now, the turnover in management is ludicrous. It's been a few years, but I still have nightmares about that place.
  • 2 1
 @iantmcg: 'American Made' means American engineered. Yeah the Japanese have some manufacturing and assembly here. They're still Japanese cars and built waaaay better than their American counterparts.
  • 3 1
 @snoopy24777:

Engineered lifespan.

Domestic car manufacturers seem to have it down to a science where soon after your warranty expires, your car you once paid 15-40K for, turns into a cardboard box on plastic wheels and you're back in the market looking for something else.

Then they cry about why consumers don't buy domestic...
Here's an idea, stop engineering cars you can barely get 70K miles out of before breaking down and maybe you'll win the market back.

Rant off.
  • 1 1
 @WasatchEnduro: Yes, I can attest that they have the best quality control I have ever seen. They also have a better monitoring, find problems very fast and correct them. The average Japanese is also more intelligent, the workers have more understanding of the standards and procedures, whereas in my company, many just follow them without understanding.
They also have ave public shaming of offenses. You better not screw up.
  • 1 1
 @Enzyme: You are so right, but it goes further - artificially "protecting" economies with tariffs and such actually weakens them. The fact is, we are all part of one big economy on this earth (if and when we meet aliens, then maybe we will trade with them, too, who knows). This is economic fact, it's hardly debatable. Sure, you might "boost jobs" but there are much better ways (like lowering taxes) if you are trying to give companies an advantage on your soil.
  • 1 0
 Back when high end aluminum bikes were being built in the states I used to weld them. Speaking from experience most of our welders were from the orient... What difference does it make if the same people build them in their native country or on US soil? They all go through the same QC process either way...
  • 1 0
 @davemud: the dimensions aren't that far off new bikes. The head angle is 65 but the rear sags like 4" so slackens more than others like older v10. Suits me as it's like a new sized small frame. If you where over 5'8" then you'd be too cramped.
  • 1 0
 @bat-fastard: really? Reel is steal?
  • 1 0
 @owlie: yip real 4130 Smile
  • 4 2
 You're assuming (and so does Pinkbike) that it's only about quality, but that's not the case. Economy, politics and ideology are part of the question too.
When you spend $5000 for a bike that's 100% US made, the money will stay in your country.
When you spend $5000 for a bike that's made in China, most of the money will be sent abroad.

When I'm choosing a bicycle (or anything), it must meet certain quality standards. If more products meet this standard, then:
1. I'll try to buy one from my own country.
2. If not possible, I'll try to buy one from Europe.
3. If not possible, I'll try to buy one from a "white" country (USA, Canada)
4. If not possible, then I'll buy whatever is available.
  • 3 0
 @scotttherider: The difference is that if they make them on US soil, they pay taxes on US soil and spend most of their salary on US soil.
  • 1 0
 But I LOVE, and I mean really, really LOVE my Gibson J-45. Oh that wonderful bark and growl she has with those shimmering highs. BUT, I had to try out many before I found the one that resonated with me the most. It only took one strum and I knew she was mine. The journey of searching for the right one lasted almost a year. Agree that Gibson could use a QC department. Or someone. Anyone.
  • 2 0
 @snoopy24777: alot of "Asian cars " are made in factories in the USA. And alot of " American made cars "are made in factories in other countries.
  • 1 0
 @Extremmist: the bigger difference is our Union labor and what $5k really buys you. Our country makes up that difference with foreign countries with tariffs.
And the materials are rarely 100% sourced locally.
  • 3 1
 @DHFX: That has not been true for over 30 years. I worked for Ford from 1995 to 2005. During my new hire orientation in 1995, they drilled into our heads that the vehicles were being designed to go a minimum of 10 years and 150,000 miles before neediing major service. They also stress-tested their trucks at 5x their rated payloads. Not saying they are perfect, but for at least the last 25 years every Ford built has been designed to last far longer than the warranty period. I know I spend far, far more on bike tuneups and service than on vehicle service.
  • 1 0
 @KrazyKraut: My girl friend is Chinese, and to hear her say it, everyone in China has at least a bachelor's degree, typically in something useful (ie not art). Their labor market is way more competitive (likely due to over population) than it is here in the states. With her education she'll be a super star in our tech industry; In China, she's just another world class engineer, which they have coming out of the wood work.
  • 1 0
 @YoKev, @sino428: You guys are totally right. I should have said (and did mean that) American brands, not American made cars, have seemed to produce less reliable cars in my experience. Like you said, many Japanese and other car companies make amazing cars in the US. including Honda and Toyota, and "American" car companies make some cars in Mexico. It's the company, not where it was made.
  • 36 0
 should have an option regarding $$$
  • 15 0
 Agreed. The cost of a bike, and getting the most possible value for my dollar, is what drives my buying decisions. I try to buy local when and where I can, but that isn't always within my budget.
  • 3 0
 Right. I buy based on what I can afford. Only way I'm paying a premium for domestic manufacturing is if I know the bike will be future proof to some extent. Adjustable geometry, multiple wheel sizes, competitive weight, then I'll pay a bit more to have it built in the states.
  • 3 0
 Yes! Should be "I would like to buy domestic, as long as it's not double the cost"
  • 1 0
 Exactly. I would totally buy a handmade bike made in the US. In fact I drooled over them at the handmade bicycle show last weekend. But man are they $$$
  • 4 0
 Agreed, hard to pass up companies like YT and Commencal, who make great quality bikes at affordable prices.
  • 21 0
 I worked for Anodizing Inc in Portalnd, Or for a while and we were making frames for Turner, Yeti, Santacruz, Ellsworth and several more and I can attest that it comes down to quality control.
It does not matter where the frame is made.
If you have a bunch of under paid people that do not have passion for what their making, the quality will suffer.
In my case, we had several of us that were bike geeks that cared a lot about what we were putting out, the rest of the staff ( the other 90% ) could give two shits, it was a paycheck. And if you are a ( I only buy made in USA ) guess what, 90% of the guys making your stuff don't / can't speak English and do not ride bikes. That's corporate manufacturing for ya. But there are the hand full of small manufacturers out there that are making and putting in the attention to detail. Just do your research and buy from a company with passion and good customer service Big or small.
  • 3 0
 Good insights
  • 4 0
 @endlessblockades: good call on researching your purchases. Companies like Hope or Chromag get my vote.
  • 2 1
 @fartymarty: And Orange
  • 1 0
 There's a possibility that you made my Nomad 1.5. Thanks!
  • 4 1
 @JungleT: orange for sure! how cool is it that in this day and age you can buy a two wheeled human powered vehicle that not only works as a transportation device, but at the same time it also takes you back fifteen years whenever you ride it. some say its a bicycle, some say its a pedally tardis!
  • 21 4
 I've owned seven full suspension bikes in the last 20 years or so. I only had problems with one, a M9 that I assume was built in the USA. I want a well built bike with a good manufacturer warranty. I don't really care where its built as long as its built well and it works correctly.
  • 9 5
 Problems with intense frames are so common it's ridiculous. What's worse is when my 951 cracked on the chain stay (known and very comon issue) they basically told me to suck it.... never buying an intense again even if it's American made.
  • 9 1
 @jjalessi: that's surprising, one of our local guys overshot the Windham road gap and cracked both his chainstays. I took a pic of it, emailed it to intense and they sent out a free replacement swingarm no questions asked, didn't even charge for shipping. They also replaced a friends cracked carbine 275 with a new tracer. Again no questions asked. They've always been good to us.
  • 2 0
 My first full sus mountain bike was a garry fisher, well respected brand..bottom bracket tube on the frame out of alignment. Nice bike but my god that was frustrating.
  • 2 0
 @rcmalinchak: I've heard of other people having the same experience as you. Seems like their customer service falls to one extreme or the other.
  • 1 0
 @rcmalinchak: intense has changed with the times and have leanrt that taking care of a few cracked frames leads to good social media buzz.
  • 1 0
 I had 2 Turner 5Spots and ride a 2014 Sultan. They are US made, well built and lasts forever but the main reason I keep coming back is the good manufacturer warranty and customer service. When you call or email, David Turner answers them himself. I'm on the fence for a new plastic bike from reputable brands but great customer service and warranty is key.
  • 1 0
 @agustinv: Aren't the newest Turner Bikes plastic?
  • 1 1
 @gonecoastal: yup. I'm just saying the manufacturer should have good CS and warranty behind their products plastic or not. Mind you I'm saving up for a carbon frame for my next bike, I heard that Evil and Pivot has good CS as well.
  • 1 0
 @agustinv: I'm moving away from Asian made plastic frames. North American/Mainstream bicycle industry is boring and predictable as shit. "We really went out on a limb to source this frame from the same factory as our closest six competitors; producing a frame that has almost the same 'game changing' geo numbers as the model dropped by one of them over two seasons ago. Really groundbreaking stuff happening at 'North American BroCycle Company.'"

But I digress; I'm awaiting a German built FS frame, and once I tire of my road bike I'll be looking at a Naked or another Dekerf.
  • 5 0
 @gonecoastal: Awesome I am sure you can twirl your mustache with bees wax while telling people how you got such a none boring bike rather than the mainstream bikes that everyone else has.
  • 2 0
 @agustinv: It was a sad day when I heard that Turner will no longer be making alloy bikes in the USA. Dave knows how to design a great handling, long lasting bike and is an awesome guy! I'll likely keep my Zen made Burner forever.
  • 17 1
 I think we're all paying too much for bikes, costs have gone up much faster than salaries here in the UK. I do however appreciate how much better bikes are now than when I got my first mtb way back in 1987 !!
  • 9 1
 Truth, the money going on these bikes has easily doubled in the last 10years and that's nothing to do with inflation. Too much marketing hype and price fixing by the big brands. Enduro enduro enduro. Which is why I'll always seek out the smaller companies that dont pump millions into advertising first. They often produce equal quality and design, and have a lot more to lose from a bad product being released.

I'd say 27.5 is a great example. Following the forums etc you'd see people didnt really feel the need, results were always that 26 was more nimble, not really any issues with rolling, didnt need that extra 14% power input for acceleration, but many were curious to try it. That got pounced on by the brands and became mainstream for ..well, not many good reasons other than making more sales more quickly. Its like the 10year light bulb getting phased out all those years ago. More turnover is good for making loads of money, not the user.
  • 2 1
 @Enzyme: The cost of raw materials, shipping and labour went up over the last 10 yrs.
  • 14 1
 An option along the lines of; willing to buy from anywhere so long as working environments follow appropriate regulations would be nice. I like to think our community is aware enough to try and buy products produced in safe environments with fair and competive wages and recognizes that some of our bikes and gear we enjoy so much are produced in places where people can't enjoy these luxuries.
I realize this is only a poll but I personally try and remain cognizant of things like this.
  • 3 0
 ^This. I don't want anyone slaving away in miserable or dangerous conditions so I can own an affordable bike.
  • 12 0
 My last 4 mountain bikes were U.S. made. I simply like the "home made " article for bling factor. It doesn't mean that it is better made nor that it is a better product. Now, most of the bikes from that company are made in Asia. That's not a bad thing, but it's harder to justify the high price now.
  • 14 6
 I couldn't give a rat's ass where it was built, so long as it was built well......Designed in Canada or USA is most important to me, And being built in Taiwan is ok with me, My Specialized Demos and Rocky Mountain Flatline are designed in USA & Canada but both are actually made in Taiwan. great craftsmen ship seems to have been done on them, they preform very well and surpass my expectations immensely ...
  • 3 2
 Agrees; I consider being a Canadian brand a plus, where the actual bike is made is less important to me.
  • 2 3
 @src248: hell yeah buddy ! .
  • 2 1
 Fully agree. When I was in the market for a new bike last year I cared that it was from a Canadian company, but the more important part was that it was built solid. Couldn't be happier with my Process 153, regardless of who did the welding.
  • 7 1
 "Designed in Canada or USA is most important to me"

Agreed. If you tell someone an M6 bolt needs 20nm of torque, they can do that anywhere on the planet. But if someone on a beach in Florida is designing your Squamish "quiver-killer" you may have a problem.
  • 3 6
 @Sardine: you don't get where i'm coming from , your shit about an M6 bolt is retarded ... i'm just proud to own Canadian & USA branded bikes . if you read my whole comment you would see i also said not caring if they were made in Taiwan ... so go away troll with your blank ass profile.
  • 7 0
 @dh-bomber: pretty sure he was just agreeing with you...
  • 1 4
 @acdownhill: fair enough .
  • 1 0
 @dh-bomber: fair enough. If the marketting is that important to you
  • 9 2
 I feel like there's significant difference between Taiwanese and Chinese made bikes. Taiwan welds together Specialized, Trek, Commencal, Giant ( which is a fully Taiwanese company), and essentially every large reputable brand mountain bike maker. China on the other hand is where the likes of mongoose and the rest of the walmart fleet are made. Not to mention labor protection laws and the fact Taiwan is actually a DEMOCRACY. I would and have bought Taiwanese bikes but I refuse to buy Chinese- mostly to protest working conditions alone.
  • 6 0
 I'd prefer to buy British made stuff when possible, but, value for money (as long as it's good quality) usually comes first, hence Taiwanese made Vitus/Canyon/Commencal/YT or Norco/Cube/Giant/etc provide good value builds compared to many. If I was spending bigger bucks, I'd certainly pay the premium for western-made frame over some overpriced, usually poorly specced (comparatively) entry level Chinese-made Santa Cruz/Intense/Yeti though for example, where you are paying a premium for marketing, by pricing high (for similar quality) they create desirability aka. Apple marketing.
  • 6 0
 Tell me again why these bike Companies go to China for cheap labor and do not pass on the savings to the consumers? Wasn't that their whole excuse of going there so they can manufacture and sell it for less to the consumers, but that's just smoke. I hope Trumpskin up the import tax on these bike Co. that manufacturers in China and put them out of business and re-set the whole industry. Bike's cost more that Motorcycles now and it's disgusting! For you people pushing Enduro, new wheels, E-bikes, and incompatible parts is also on you, killing the sport! It has become a greedy, profit pushing industry!
  • 5 0
 Are people forgetting the fact that buying something made in your first world country means that a person was paid a nice, live-able wage to do the high quality work that is being done rather than paying people crap money in another country that probably has no child labor laws and things of that nature, all in the name of money?
  • 5 0
 I assume the question is about where the frame was produced, not where it was assembled, right? After all I assemble my bike myself and I suppose this goes for most of us. And if not it could have been done at the lbs or at the local distributor. For something I love this much (riding bikes) I do appreciate it if my bike is made by someone who's put as much love and pride in it building it. Which may not necessarily be the case to be honest. My DMR hardtail comes from Asia (pretty sure), the Cannondale Prophet says "Handmade in the USA". In the back of my mind it seems nice meet the welder while out on a ride where he goes "Hey I built that one. You like it?" Much more that blast past the poor welder while he walks home barefoot. Yes I could enjoy myself on any good bike, but I'd be extra proud riding something from Starling or Orange.

All in all it is a mix of components from all over the place. Suspension and brakes from Germany, drivetrain definitely from Asia except for the (KMC) chain. Spokes from Switzerland. What is important however is that it is done according worker and environmental conditions I consider acceptable. That's the main thing really. So that goes beyond what the factory looks like, but also working hours, the way waste water from anodizing is handled. Obviously this kind of stuff is hard to track but it should be done properly when done in a "western" country. So if the option is there and it is feasible, it is my prefered option. But not for love for the motherland or anything.
  • 4 0
 The craftsmanship of Taiwanese vs MUSA bikes is not really a determining factor in my preference for place of manufacture. (That is not to say that quality is not a determining factor.)

My primary concern with off-shoring is instead about the working and wage conditions of people making these bikes. Are they paid appropriately and provided with safe working conditions? In most instances this is a complete unknown when they are off-shored to nations with lax workers' protections... Very few companies seem to be concerned with being accountable in this regard; and unfortunately this is probably due to us consumers not demanding it.
  • 1 0
 *not really the main determining factor
  • 2 0
 I'm not sure if anyone in the bike industry does it ,but there are quite a few companies in other industries that in the interest of transparency publish detailed assessments of their own supply chains with regards to ethics eg environmental impact, labour conditions, safety etc.
  • 6 2
 you can blame the Bill Clinton era for all the MADE IN CHINA tags on your USA branded bikes... it was his admin that killed that MADE IN USA mojo.


Me, I don't really care where it's made as long as it's good..

what bug me is companies like Santa Cruz who used to be made in USA still charging that MADE IN USA price even though they're outsourced from the ROC which is well known for being cheaper.

Transition was always made in ROC but, at least with them, the prices reflect that. Tranny had a few years where the paint was shit-poor horrible but, they found a new company and they're rock solid now.

I have been selling Tranny's since around 2002ish (about a year after they started up). I didn't sell a boat load of them but, I think through the years, I have had at most 3 warranty issues. all were taken care of. sure sure, they're little kooky but, they make good stuff.
  • 1 0
 It's not politics, it's the manufacturers got greedy with cheap labors in Asia, see their profits balloon!
  • 1 0
 Santa Cruz used to be made in USA and they were terrible. The year they switch to being welded in Taiwan by Giant, their quality increased (Quote from Santa Cruz employee at the time "They were all exactly the same and they were PERFECT). So you'd prefer to pay a premium for USA made crap than the same price for Taiwanese made quality?
  • 1 0
 @drivereight: SC changed to Taiwan because the USA-made frames were out-of-alignment and shops and customers were getting pissed off. Bearings had very short lives. SC told shops to do custom wheel dishing.
  • 1 0
 Santa cruz aren't even an American company. They are part of a Dutch company that owns focus bikes and various other brands
  • 2 0
 @PedalShopLLC "you can blame the Bill Clinton era for all the MADE IN CHINA tags on your USA branded bikes... it was his admin that killed that MADE IN USA mojo."

Totally agree.
  • 1 0
 @chrismac70: true that --- they sold out a while ago.

I used to have three go-to brands for MADE IN USA --- Ellsworth, Titus and Santa Cruz...


there was THE day when I was like----- whoa whoa whoa, what the hell?!?! I had three guys buy three of the same bikes for some sorta Eco Challenge type race they were doing. they all ordered the Santa Cruz SuperLite.. I remember it, it was 2 large, 1 medium in the sand color (tan). I get them in, start opening the boxes. I flip one bike upsidedown and wwwwaaaBAMM!!! --- big silver black sticker on the bottom bracket that reads MADE IN TAIWAN ....... I'm not sure what year it was but, I recall the sinking feeling I got not because I didn't get the memo from SC that they moved production to ROC but, because I was still paying that MADE IN USA price. it's pretty clear why companies move production to ROC.. labor's cheap SC still puts out a pretty darn nice product............. I don't know what became of Titus, they just sorta fell off radar
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel: had the same issues with Intense ------ the classic line from a guy in warranty: "well, that's what ya get when buying American" --- yup, guy at Intense told us that when we had issues with a rear triangle not fitting the main frame. *** three rear triangles later, we still had problems
  • 3 0
 All I care about is the feeling I get when I'm out on my bike ripping singletrack. Best part of my day by far. I am a better dad, husband, worker, and human being if I started my day out on my bike. As long as my bike performs well and holds up I don't care where it was made.
  • 3 0
 I'm less concerned about the country of origin and more concerned with whether the company marketing the product actually produced it. That being said I ride a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail b/c I've met Will and several of the guys at GG and wanted to support them, I ride Spank bars, pedals and wheels because they actually make there own product and don't outsource production to a third party. Same goes for the Hope parts on my bike. I wish more companies were clear and forthcoming about whether they actually make there stuff and if they don't who does it for them.
  • 6 2
 I like to support local, but if what I'm looking for is made abroad, that's OK as long as the workers are well treated, produce a quality product and earn enough to live comfortably.
  • 4 0
 I have a 2010 aluminum Trek, proudly made in Taiwan and been going strong for seven years, I genuinely don't think that it makes any difference where the bike was manufactured.
  • 3 0
 Things to think about:

1- Labour laws - Are the companies using foreign cheap labour so they pump up their profits? (That shows little respect for everyone involved, employees and customers) - Local wins
2- Environmental cost - how much pollution does it make to build parts all over the world and ship them out elsewhere so we can enjoy the outdoors 'clean' lifestyle? - Local wins
3- Quality. No one wants shit built bikes. - Foreign possibly wins
4- Cost of bike - foreign wins
5 - Local employment. - local wins

What is really important for you?

Considering above, if I go on moral/ethical standards I would always go local. But when we live in a culture of throw away and cheap & profit.. as we know all that goes down the toilet in a blink of an eye (hence the state of the world).

Quality produce, fair treatment of employees and smaller environmental footprint are expensive and reduce the profit bike companies.
  • 3 0
 Definitely. The next bike I'm buying is a Devinci, who sources all of their materials and labour within Quebec and doesn't ship the frames out to Taiwan like other manufacturers. I dig that, and because of it they get an edge in my decision making when I look for new equipment.
  • 1 0
 ya, ok....
  • 2 0
 With the cost of bikes these days. Buying from a reputable name that is willing to stand behind their product, regardless of where it was manufactured, is the most important part for me. Like mentioned in other comments its nearly impossible to really dig into manufacture process for most companies and determine who does it best. So thats realistically out. There have been several substantial manufacturing flaws in recent years that have nearly or did tank companies too. So while we're not completely protected from bad process, you can at least get a warranty with your hard earned cash. Sadly prices dont seem to get cheaper when companies outsource. Theres been quote a few companies in the last decade that have shifted manufacturing from domestic to Asia. Yet prices continue to climb, on average. That being said I currently have a US made Intense. Likely the last US made bike I'll have but not the last Intense. I have zero reservations about buying another one even though its not made locally because I know they stand behind it.
  • 2 0
 I like the idea of still having bike manufacturing in other parts of the world than Asia and I try to support more local manufacturing when I can. It is an important factor in the purchase decision, but it is not the only one or the most important.

In my past 20 years of riding, I owned a Devinci and a Balfa DH bikes, both made in Québec, and I currently own a Standard 125R BMX bike made in Iowa. All the others were made in Asia: Specialized (4), Giant (1), Pivot (1), Voodoo (1), Devinci carbon (1), Intense BMX (1), Redline BMX (1).

I am thinking (every single day) about pulling the trigger on a Chromag Surface as my next bike purchase.
  • 3 0
 it really doesnt matter, companies have different quality standards, it is unwise and rude to generalize that everything coming out of certain place in the world is good or bad.
  • 6 1
 I ride and use as much British stuff as possible, orange, hope, mudhugger, and what ever else I can get my hands on !!!!!
  • 2 0
 I would prefer something built in North America, but I will buy a bike from anywhere EXCEPT Mainland China, but that has nothing to do with bikes. I've had 3 USA Santa Cruz (1 Bronson Street, 2 Kinesis in WA.) and 1 USA 'Dale. I currently pilot a German bike made in Formosa.
  • 2 0
 Quality depends on desing and manufactoring specifications, either in Canada or Taiwan. An best facilities for mass production are located in Taiean, for sure.

But nevermind where the bike's been made; what I love to know is that my bike has been manufactured for someone whit rights, health protection and good working conditions, earning a fair wage.
None of the above comes to my mind when I think about chinesse factories working whit very toxic shit.

And all this carbon fiber new age, that's been introduced mainly to cut production costs and introduce new desing posibilities like aluminum was back in the day, makes me sick, because now companies sell you stuff even cheaper to produce by a people earning wages lower than ever (anyone can fill carbon molds once trained, it's like making lemonade compared to quality consistent welding), at a price higher than ever.
  • 2 0
 My last 2 bikes were both made in my home state here in the US. Cannondale was bought out and all production was moved overseas. I like the Jekyll, Trigger and Habit they've come up with in the past few years. They seem capable.

If I ever get the cash to replace my 05 Prophet then I'll likely get a GG Megatrail. Not because it's US made, ('Merica! f*ck Yeah!) but because the bike ticks all the boxes for me. The rest is a bonus.
  • 2 0
 It' funny. Most people expect to be paid at least fairly if not we'll (because in our own minds we are the only competent people in the department). At the same time based on the prices we expect to pay for most goods and services we are implying everyone else works at a slave wage. Practically, because there is effectively an infinite amount of cheap labour and enough managers who leverage this fact. This way they can keep their costs low, their profits high, and the situation will not change until consumers start noticing the jobs that are being outsourced are their own (first factory workers, increasingly skilled professionals being replaced by "design Centers").
  • 2 0
 I remember my 91 GT Zaskar, there was a sticker on the seat tube saying hand built in Murica. Also a sticker on the head tube..... Made in Taiwan Smile
When I asked aboot it, I was told the frame is hand made in the US, then shipped to the East to be built into a bike an distributed around the world.
An quite possibly.. Shipped back to the US, cos that's cheaper than building an distributing bikes from the US
  • 4 1
 My Knolly Endorphin was the first model year (2014) made in Taiwan and I have to admit the welds are flawless. Better bikes at lower $$$
  • 3 0
 Don't companies want to have consumers?
If you outsource production jobs but then sell the product in the home country, who's left to consume it?
  • 1 0
 My first mountain bike was a lugged Trek 930 - made in Wisconsin! It's been a long time since those day man. I'd definitely pick an American-made bike if it was a realistic choice, but there are very few American-made bikes these days, and they are generally quite pricey.
  • 2 1
 I was at the local big box hardware store the other day looking for a brush that screws on to the end of an extender pole. I found one that would work for the job and screw it on to one of the extender poles at the store and it won't stay on, take a closer look and the threads are stripped, grab another brush and that is stripped too, looked like a manufacturing flaw, probably not the best design to mold the female threads out of hard plastic. I show one of the employees and their first reaction was, "well we get our inventory from all over the world, it could be made in China." I look at the label and it has a big ole' flag and a Made in America print.

I guess the reality is it is more about the product you design and the specifications. You can make stuff of good or poor quality anywhere in the world. It just so happens that a lot of companies looking to outsource manufacturing often look to cut other costs that could affect the quality of the end product. Though there is some value to having your engineering department within a stones throw of the manufacturing facility, that and when you outsource it is more likely your intellectual property gets stolen.
  • 2 1
 Laying carbon fiber isn't particularly difficult work, but it sure is labor intensive. Most carbon frames have to be made overseas to keep pricing competitive. Only the top end models (with top tier pricing) are typically made in North America.
  • 4 3
 How about none of the above?!

I like to purchase domestically built bikes and am willing to pay a premium for them to feel warm and fuzzy. (In my case all my frames are US built, but my next full suspension undoubtably won't be).

There is nothing wrong with overseas built frames, as with any product they can had from department store garbage to top quality. As Walt of Waltworks, a great custom frame builder puts it really well and in an unvarnished truth:

"99% of the bikes made overseas are made by human welders. Specialized was doing some of their 2-piece molded alloy frames with a robot, I think, but generally, it's a human. Labor is *cheap* in some parts of the world - robots only make sense if they're even cheaper. And right now, for most things, including welding bikes, they're not.

And I'm guessing that most of the bike welders in Taiwan are WAY better than the folks here. I weld 1 or 2 frames a week, and each one takes me quite a while. I bet some of the guys in Taiwan or China (or India, though you don't see those bikes in the States) do 50+ in a day. Who's going to have more practice/experience under their belt? That's not to say they necessarily care much about their work or that the person who designed the bike knows anything about how it will ride or fit, but the welders themselves are definitely highly skilled.

So to answer the question, there is nothing wrong with the welding, generally. You can find examples of every kind of frame breaking in just about every possible way, regardless of where it was built, but the vast majority hold up well. Just about any high end (meaning >$500) bike you can buy is well made and safe, honestly.

There is a whole economic/political buying local or USA products shouting match we could have about this too, but it's been done before. A handbuilt frame generally comes with more personal attention, better fit and design, and can be tweaked to suit your riding needs. For some people, that's worth the money, for some it's not.

-Walt"
  • 2 1
 "And I'm guessing that most of the bike welders in Taiwan are WAY better than the folks here. I weld 1 or 2 frames a week, and each one takes me quite a while. I bet some of the guys in Taiwan or China (or India, though you don't see those bikes in the States) do 50+ in a day. Who's going to have more practice/experience under their belt? That's not to say they necessarily care much about their work or that the person who designed the bike knows anything about how it will ride or fit, but the welders themselves are definitely highly skilled."

High volume is not a good indication for good, quality work though, especially something like welding.
  • 6 1
 I know I'm going to get neg propped for this, but I'd rather have my frame built where the best production welders are. As far as I can tell, they're in Taiwan. So my bike has a sticker that says "born on the shore" on the seat tube, but if you turn it over it says "made in Taiwan". The bike I had before that was from the first year the company moved their frame production from Italy to Taiwan -- and the frames took a turn for the better. So what's wrong with giving credit where credit is due? The welders in Taiwan take pride in their work, and they've got the experience and volume to be the best.
  • 2 0
 @dave-f: Good welders are high in demand in Europe and don't have to work for the poor pay of a bike company. Plant engineering, pipeline companies pay way better.
  • 2 1
 I think in general we all would like to buy local or something made "Made In...(insert country name here)"
I personally have never had an issue with any foreign made frames.
Take vehicles for example, I always buy Honda or Toyota. when I am asked why I wont buy American, I simply reply that I value a well made product. My brother on the other hand, swears by "American Made" yet he is always at his local auto parts store. Whenever he walks in he's greeted like Norn from "Cheers"!
  • 2 1
 Steve Jobs was once ask by president Obama why the iphone was not made in America, he replied America's financial problem was not his concern. Then went on to talk about all the red tape and it would take years to set up a factory where he could go over to Asia have a factory staffed and up and running within 24hrs and the people would be willing to work for a dollar a day. The American made slogan is convoluted it means absolutely nothing.
  • 4 1
 "he replied America's financial problem was not his concern". GREED long as he made his money.
  • 3 3
 @Leethal-1: look where that got him... Karmas a bitch.
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: You can always moved to Canada if you don't like great we live in a society that is motivated purely on profit its the American way if everything was made in America most of us would be riding Huffy bikes.
  • 2 0
 And by making Iphones available in huge numbers at affordable (ish) he transformed the world economy and the USA tech industry is the worlds biggest and best and employs more than any factory. Would you rather work in a factory or at Google? making iphones in the usa would have filled a couple of factories at most. Creating a whole new industry, that employs hundreds of thousands. The majority of apple's shareholders are American, the majority of the companies' staff are American, why does it matter where the product is made if the majority of the benefit from that company is already going to the USA???
  • 2 0
 Even the best bike manufacturers any where in the world can have a batch of defective parts get out the door. Its a pride thing. Having parts made from the country you live in.
  • 2 1
 I got a problem, I can't believe the price I gotta pay for a decent two wheeled machine these days, so don’t be telling me about Asia, cheap labor and stuff.
All those savings made on one side are investments elsewhere. Marketing and branding costs are the largest slice of retail prices for one good reason: people buy brands.
If production were not outsourced the price would be the same, even lower.
  • 1 0
 My trail bike was designed in California, carbon lay-up in Germany, with Japanese drive train and American suspension. My cyclocross bike and DH bikes were manufactured in here Canada with a mix of Canadian, American, Japanese, and even Italian components. When shopping for all of these bikes the main factors were how much quality I could get for my money.
  • 1 0
 Carbon layup in Germany? Which bike is that?
  • 1 0
 where's your coffee from?
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: You really want to know?
  • 1 0
 @gonecoastal: no, no I dont.....
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: Do you even know what farm to table means?
  • 1 0
 @gonecoastal: Tracer T275 from 2014
  • 1 0
 @gonecoastal: My fore parents were farmers, my grandfather owned a slaughter house, my parents grew a garden that would help feed our family homegrown veggies. Do you know what farm to table IS?
  • 1 0
 @mikeyrides: There was a carbon Tracer 275 in 2014? I'd like to see that.....
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: ***Whoosh***
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: There's a picture of it on my profile page, I'm still riding it (great bike). Intense didn't exactly keep it a secret or anything...
  • 1 0
 @mikeyrides: very nice indeed
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: Thanks brother
  • 2 1
 All things being equal, I could not care less where the bike comes from.

Sure, it might impress some people to say some bloke designed it in his shed and they had to wait 9 months for it to be built, but frankly I wouldn't want to impress that type of person.

It might matter to racist morons as well who think everything made in china/taiwan etc is junk because it wasn't made by a burly bearded american man or tea drinking brit.
  • 1 0
 what bugs me is when something is from a boutique brand or is charged a premium just because of that brand, and is made down the road from same factory which makes frames for any other mainstream bike brand or even in the same factory.

as if you're to charge more because of your brand you could at least make it in the country your brand is from, seeing as being manufactured in taiwan/china is the norm, you could at least differentiate from the norm, then it'd be more appealing and worth that premium.

As it's a bit of a kick in the nads, when you pay 10-20% more for a boutique bike expecting it to be made by the brand you buy it from, not outsourced to a company in east asia, when you could have gotten something made in the same factory with slight better spec, for less.

granted that taiwanese made bikes are bloody fantastic, it doesn't hurt to keep local frame builders going.
  • 2 1
 Everyone should WANT to be able to buy bikes made in their respective country, for obvious reasons. To support economies in your country only makes your country better.

But we Americans are addicted to having "stuff". Stereos, iPhones, trendy clothes, tools we don't need or use. And we want NEW stuff even when we have all these things already.

The truth is, our appetite for affordable, high quality goods, coupled with corporation's tendencies towards constant growth, and environmental restrictions on manufacturing have all created an unsustainable situation.

Asian countries DO make high quality stuff, but they also make a ton of trash.

The age of this kind of manufacturing is gone and will never come back.
  • 1 0
 I'd like to buy an American made alum or CF bike, but can't afford the much higher cost. Wish I got paid more for my work so I could support the local economy... Also wish my Asian brothers and sisters got paid more for their work... but then I couldn't afford any mountain bike at all.
  • 1 0
 I think the argument misses the point a little. Manufacturing strengths and weaknesses will vary from country to country. If I wanted to have something made in small runs using ultra hard materials I would go to certain parts of Europe. If I wanted large runs of welded of formed metals I would go to Asia. It is technologies required to do things well is being dispersed, but to make large scale runs of a product like a push bike in the US or here in Oz is just not as feasible as it is in China (unless you want to pay workers in peanuts).
  • 1 0
 I would like honesty in marketing. like our brand uses the skilled people at 'wemakebikes4U' to build our design. I know thats somewhat pie in the sky. but it is one reason I like buying Giant bikes, I know who made it, They did!!
  • 2 0
 'honesty' and 'marketing' are pretty much mutually exclusive, imo
  • 1 0
 Of all of my bikes only one is far eastern manufacture.
The bmx is American made (2004 standard sta500), the trials bike Russian made (2006 triton deema) and the trail bike is American made (2008 intense 5.5). The commuter slag (2004 santacruz chameleon) is made in tawain and is no worse than any of the others.

In fact, the intense is the worst of the lot due to slight misalignment of the upper pivot mount. The rest are all pretty much perfect boutique frames.

To me it doesn't matter where the frame is made, however I do like to support small industry and stuff made by hand, by craftsmen Smile
  • 1 0
 If money was no issue, I would have one of the remaining USA made Tracer frames my boss has at the shop, a MRP fork, Push shock, and Nox hoops laced to some Profile hubs as a starting point for a build... Plenty of good quality bikes coming out of Taiwan... But, I would prefer something like Guerilla Gravity over something made overseas...
  • 1 0
 Love this question, .....regardless of what anyone thinks, it is a global market. I got great deal on frame from UK. Whether company is in uk, us, canada, asia, germany, etc.. or whether it is actually made in us or asia or europe...I could care less. People will click on best value best quality at best price for most part. Not always but mostly. This is rational market activity. It would actually be irrational to pay more for item closer to home. That might be how this all ends up too, closer to US higher the price..
  • 1 0
 That is actually not completely true. A rational individual can still value "domestic production" and that would then be a factor in his utility function.

All else being equal, would you buy an Amercan bike or the (otherwise identical) Taiwanese bike? See..
  • 1 0
 @KrazyKraut: It is generally accepted in econ and behavioral science theory that (all things equal) price will be determiner of choice. Econ models have to consider this. I get your point, but say the above is true about econ definition or rational, you still can have a generally rational person step outside the definition of rational financial choice and purchase a frame based on patriotism or loyalty. You would call that rational based on his own value system, I'm just saying generally it would be called irrational based on popular economic models of market behavior. I don't entirely disagree, but got to go with generally accepted definitions to predict market behavior.

As to all things being equal question:..hmmmm.......if even shipping and swiftness of customer service were exactly equal, then American. If customer service was swifter and better warranty etc on Taiw frame, then Taiwan.
  • 1 0
 @coachvernon: You are right. In the larger scale the price clearly dominates.

For all appliances where it makes sense (where German products are good and not completely overpriced) I have decided to buy local whenever possible. I'm not rich but I also can't complain. I know it's not the way of the homo economicus, if it saves some lower middle class jobs and keeps some factories here for at least a little longer... but the whole country is turning to shit anyways.
  • 1 0
 @KrazyKraut: "if it saves some lower middle class jobs and keeps some factories here for at least a little longer... but the whole country is turning to shit anyways"

sorry, late going back to this, but basically feel same exact way about our situation here.......I am torn on the saving mid level job thing , certainly I want all folks to have access to decent job....but not sure how much we should manipulate to forcefully keep them here......the stigma of made "outside" of US = inferior is long gone especially with corporate standards and quality check ups from home. All my rides are Taw or Chi and all are fantastically welded it seems. The companies are canada, UK, and US but all made in Asia.

It is such a war over here over domestic vs. global......reality is it just is not our fathers world anymore, my pedals were 20 $ and sipped directly from China via Amazon and my frame was bought on my cell phone from Planet X and shipped from Eng. to LA to PHX to Northern AZ in less than 48 hours....DHL....great price.
  • 1 0
 The Taiwanese welds on my Canyon are very good, while those of my old German made Focus are gorgeous (how can they be that even?). But very good is clearly good enough. I am fine with frame manufacturing going to the Taiwanese, it's their thing. But when Mr. Arnold said here on pb that "a number" of bikes for the US market will be assembled in Asia, yeah, that pissed me off. I know Keynes, I know the Homo Economicus. Probably the equilibrium will be: Brainwork domestically, production wherever it's cheapest. I'm not suggesting to fight the market and its convergence, but you don't have to rush it, especially if you already pretty much have cost leadership. Is the brand new factory hall in Koblenz too small already? That's piss poor planning then. How about assembling those bikes in Southern California where you secured that warehouse. Maybe even Trump will show up and shake hands. Might even improve political relations. Or are those saved assembly costs passed down to the customer?

But hey, it's up to us. Personally, I think it's okay to have framework outsourced to Asia, but I draw the line at assembly. Your numbers are good, revenue stable? You can provide employment for a few hundred people.

And yes I am aware they are already killing the local bike shops. But that is no longer a sustainable business model in it's current form.
  • 1 0
 I'm not sure we can even use the cost argument so much on these anymore as some bikes seem to be getting astronomical on price anyway. Bikes in general have gone up noticeably in the last ten years but some 'high end' bikes seem to seeing a massive margin against other bikes that are so similar the average rider wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
  • 1 0
 I have 2 cf chinese frames . I don't mean a santa cruz or transition but actual Chinese brands . I have been so happy with them I got rid of my whyte 46 as she never got a look in anymore. The thing that gets me is the bs bike brands come up with to try and justify the cost. For example, my ican s7 cost me £2300 to build . Chemical bikes sell the same frame for £2000 without a shock and claim to have spent years developing it when I have been riding mine for years! KHS is selling the same bike I think for $6000! I would love to buy local but cannot justify the cost to get a similar performing machine
  • 2 0
 Devinci is still building aluminum frames with Canadian aluminum, in Canada, with Canadian labor and I want to support that by continuing to buy their carbon models made in Asia!
  • 1 0
 Please keep buying new bikes so that I can pick them up on the used market for a fraction of the price! Agree with many posts, many levels of quality around the world and it is mostly a source of pride when buying local or domestic. I picked up a Norco recently, still a Canadian company? Cheap Chinese resonates since the shittiest bikes were the first to go offshore. I just bought flooring last month and heard the same story. Blame cheap oil. We all live in CHIMERICA.
  • 1 0
 Would love a domestically produced bike. I wanted to go the carbon route this time and I think that only leaves the Alcemy Arktos. They sound awesome but are really expensive. Ended up ordering a new rocky mtn altitude from my Lbs. In the end I really just wanted to support my local shop. I'm
  • 1 0
 I try to avoid the mass produced frames for the simple fact that they are mass produced on a production line and the top end mass produced frames are just as expensive as 'hand made' (Yeti, SC for example). If a frame was hand built with a bit of care and attention in Taiwan then it would be something I'd consider. The cost to produce a top end frame in Asia is way less than say UK or USA so why aren't (Yeti, SC etc) passing the savings on to the consumer?
  • 2 2
 I'd love to ride a bike made in the homeland, but if I buy the lowest spec RM maiden it would run be $5400, the lowest spec carbon tues would run me $5000 with a much better spec. Where as the maiden with carbon wheels goes for $12000 and the tues with carbon wheels goes for $7600. Then again I doubt the maidens are made at their shop in North Van, so whats the point?

Love repping my local raceface gear though! #loamranger
  • 2 1
 That RaceFace shit isn't made in BC either brah!
  • 1 0
 @gonecoastal: I'm well aware of that, still is a local brand I don't have to pay an arm and a leg for, brah.
  • 1 0
 @Katakalism: What's local?
  • 2 0
 After that article that was posted last week about Intense moving their welding to Asia, I wonder if that will make their aluminum bikes cheaper... Right...
  • 2 2
 To me, if it's well made, it doesn't really matter if it's made in this country or not, unless it's by someone I know. With regards to full suspension; a wide range of companies from all countries have all of the bases covered fairly evenly. With hardtails, it's different. Mostly, the only hardtails that fit the bill of what I'm looking for are from UK based companies, because they understand the needs of the trail hardtail enthusiast in this country. If these companies produce their frames here, great. If not, oh well. My current hardtail is a Genesis, made in Taiwan. I think. That doesn't bother me one bit.
  • 1 0
 Does anyone know companies manufacturing frames in their home-country in north america/europe?

I think Lapierre used to do so in France, but I'm not sure they still do...

What about Canada? Devinci does, RM? Norco?
  • 1 0
 Foes frames are entirely made in house in California
  • 1 0
 Orange and Nicolai. There's some weird Spanish company doing carbon frames in You-Rope as well. Unsure about Devinci now. Last I heard only their high end FS alloy frames and the CS on the carbon frames were done in Quebec. RM and Norco moved
  • 6 2
 Let's be honest American cars are hardly renound for quality
  • 1 0
 Really? Elaborate please!
  • 4 0
 @MX298: Depends on what you mean by "American" cars. Toyota, Nissan & Honda make cars in the US.

If the comment was directed towards the big 3 American brands then its totally justified. While they have all made huge strides in improving overall quality of their products they still fall short. On top of that they continue to struggle with the "perceived quality" shortfall being that cars from Ford, GM & Chrysler just aren't as good. They deserve that rep after the 30 years of crap they plowed into the market! If it wasn't for union lobbyists at least one of them would be out of business.
  • 1 0
 @Burner01: As an American and car enthusiast, I agree 100%. The US brands are WAY better now than than the past. However, still some work to do as well as a reputation to repair from 20-30 years of crap. Japanese cars forced them to up their game. That said , I hope the direct sales has a similar affect in pricing . Time will tell
  • 1 1
 @Burner01: I can say having owned a Toyota truck or two that my dodge diesel is bigger, faster, better mileage and is very well build. And it has towed our trailer across the country a few times to races and never let me down! . . . . . . . Don't own a car!
  • 2 0
 If there was a badass steel full suspension frame maker offering a longer travel 29er like a few in the UK/EU are doing... I'd be extremely tempted.
  • 2 0
 CHeck Starling bikes or the new Swarf full sus bike (see Wakis comments on the Shan 5 full sus bike)
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: those were the uk ones i was referring to, if there was something in canada id be all over it.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: GG look awesome ss well or just get a Chromag they're nice
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: Chomag's aren't fullys though, and GG's aren't steel! haha.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: Perigrine?https://m.pinkbike.com/u/Peregrinebikes/ Steel, full sus, gearbox, high pivot - US though not Canadian.
  • 1 1
 I had a temp job at quite a well known company that make motorbike components and accessories here in the UK. They even sponsor some quite high profile racers. The quality of their stuff was just shit. Lots of it was partly pre-assembled and you had to peel off the "made in the china" sticker, screw a few things on, put a couple of stickers in the right places and then put the "made in the UK" sticker on it where the China one used to be lol All of it done by clueless temp workers with no training or real knowledge of what they were doing. We even had carbon fibre effect stickers we had to carefully place over plastic components to make it look like it was carbon... lol Just because it's done in a 1st world country doesn't mean it's any good.
  • 1 0
 I'd love a British built steel hard-tail frame, probably a Curtis. They don't come cheap though and unless I suddenly have a lot of disposable income i couldn't justify one over a Taiwanese built frame, like a Comic.
  • 1 0
 I like to support local as much as possible, one of the reasons i'm eyeing a guerilla gravity for my next build. I like having manufacturing in the states, but I don't always buy into it being better quality.
  • 2 0
 The only time I consider country of origin is in context of human rights. I don't like the idea of my product being produces at the expense of substandard labor laws.
  • 3 1
 Personally I only ride bikes knowing the bauxite used to make the aluminum was mined or quarried in north Korea. You just can't get good bauxite anywhere else.
  • 2 0
 There should be an option for "I'd like to buy a domestically made bike, but the ones I'm interested in are out of my price range."
  • 1 0
 The last few items I've purchased that were made in the "USA" have been of very average quality. So I went back to the good old Chinese..
It's about quality control not place of production
  • 2 0
 Hell ya I do but what choice have we really got?
This question is a can of worms.
  • 1 0
 Xprezo?
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman:
I almost choked laughing.
  • 2 0
 Devinci: The aluminum is mined, refined, turned into tubes, and welded all in Quebec. Lifetime warranty too.

Chromag: Made by DeKerf.

Just look up bike companies based in Vancouver... I love my Brodie! Wink Canada is home to more brands than you think.
  • 3 0
 I miss the "why buy, I'll build my own frame" option ;-)
  • 2 1
 I'd love something custom and American. However, my bike budget seems to be Taiwan-y. Taiwan built does seem to be quite nice and I've yet to be disappointed.
  • 2 0
 Sad but I couldn't even afford a used American build, but happy I can afford my local shop.
  • 2 2
 none, of the above. I like to know the exact factory, and their reputation and industry certifications etc. Don't care where the factory is. But the best bike frame manufacturers (and worst) are definitely Asian.
  • 2 0
 As long as the end product is well build and can handle my hack riding, that's all that matters to me!!! lol
  • 1 0
 American made frame with Taiwanese components? People AFK? It should be well made, not more; from experience handcrafted doesn't mean better than robot crafted
  • 1 0
 I'm curious to know how much frame welding in large factories is or isn't done by a machine?
  • 2 0
 Location was definitely a factor in me picking up a Trail Pistol from Guerrilla Gravity.
  • 2 0
 Yeah I'd rather buy from a bro.

Things are funny these days.

China = affordable
bros = socially awkward
  • 1 0
 If you want to support and buy AMERICAN, then buy all means. If you want to support and buy Chinese, then buy all means. I know what I support and don't.
  • 2 0
 I prefer my frames made in Cambodia, Taiwan is good, but Cambodian made frames....the shizzle!
  • 2 0
 It matters that the people making it are receiving a living wage and good working conditions.
  • 2 0
 So you buy an (enter home country here) frame. Who's making your parts? Tires? Bicycles are the best of collaboration.
  • 1 0
 Some factory in South Asia they treat their employees so badly, they are even sleeping on the floor. Be careful what bikes you are getting and from where .
  • 1 0
 I had the pleasure of riding Intense and Foes. These are the ONLY bikes that are made in USA as far as i know. Did i missed a brand? Now I owned 2 Yeti's.
  • 1 0
 Guerrilla Gravity.
  • 1 0
 There are many well-made frames overseas. That said, I expect reasonable prices.
  • 2 0
 For me, when it comes to MTB - affordability trumps my national pride.
  • 5 4
 @PB, my bike was made on the Earth, not China, not USA, not Taiwan, Europe, It's on the Earth.
  • 1 1
 Can't upvote enough. One word one people
  • 1 1
 To me, absolutely. Bought a bike from Germany, but when shopping I also look at the bottom to see where my cup is made before I purchase it.
  • 1 0
 No idea where my SantaCruz or Wilier was built. Don't care really. One love.
  • 1 0
 I prefer local built, but if its a brand name like an Intense or a YT then I don't really care where its built
  • 1 0
 My Knolly Warden Carbon is made over seas and I could care less. Best bike . Love it.
  • 2 0
 Money option $$$
  • 2 2
 I can only afford used frames. But if I can ever afford a new one, it will definitely be made by foes in the USA!!
  • 1 1
 Money is what makes the world go 'round. Quality is what makes everyone happy.
  • 1 0
 Affordability is key, regardless of where it was manufactured.
  • 2 0
 TROLL POLL
  • 1 0
 NO IT DONT IF ITS BUILT RIGHT!
  • 1 0
 Don't matter were used bikes come from
  • 1 2
 It used to matter to me (and still does a bit, buying semi-"local" if I can)
  • 4 4
 I want fat americans covered in tomato sauce and mustard to make my bikes.
  • 1 0
 Haha We call it ketchup ya old git! But you can spell it catsup.

Zziplex RichardCunningham's article
Mar 17, 2017
Opinion: The Table
Sooner have a bike made by a conscientious nimble asain than a ketchup covered piss stained *ag smoking fat as fu£k ameritard called Brandon.


You probably listened to too much Cr@ss, but I like your second lil rant!
  • 1 0
 @endlessblockades: just messing. Got 3 US&A bikes, 1 Canadian. All made in Asia though, f*ck yeah !!!
  • 1 0
 Indeed it does. Taiwan
  • 1 0
 It's all the same world.
  • 1 0
 SANTA CRUZ Bicycles
  • 2 3
 Its called pride in ownership!
  • 1 1
 Dey took er jobz!
  • 1 2
 My garage?
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