Eightpins NGS1 Integrated Dropper Post - Review
Eightpins is both the name of this elegant dropper seatpost, and a reference to its eight-pawl mechanical latching system. For those not yet up to speed on the Eightpins concept, it is a mechanically actuated system, designed from the start to be integrated into the seat tube and thus requires a dedicated frame. A seal-head replaces the typical seatpost clamp, and there is an internal sleeve inside the frame which houses the bushings that the post slides on. The aluminum post is 33-millimeters in diameter, so it is stiffer and stronger than a conventional dropper and thus, can safely extend farther out of the frame. The remote is cable actuated and the system is powered by a simple
Eightpins Details
• Aluminum, mechanically actuated and user-serviceable
• Requires dedicated seat tube design
• Oversize, 33mm stanchion tube
• Sealed system eliminates clamp
• 4 options from 150mm to 220mm
• Independent stroke and saddle height adjustments
• Internal indexing latches in 6mm increments
• 562g to 619g depending upon stroke
• MSRP: €495 (without taxes)
• Contact: Eightpins
• Aluminum, mechanically actuated and user-serviceable
• Requires dedicated seat tube design
• Oversize, 33mm stanchion tube
• Sealed system eliminates clamp
• 4 options from 150mm to 220mm
• Independent stroke and saddle height adjustments
• Internal indexing latches in 6mm increments
• 562g to 619g depending upon stroke
• MSRP: €495 (without taxes)
• Contact: Eightpins
The Eightpins seal-head protects the internal sliding bits from grit and grime.
The gas-spring and latching mechanism are attached to the frame with a through-bolt.
Depending upon the size of your bike, you can enjoy up to 220 millimeters of drop that can be customized. Eightpins droppers are purposely shipped longer than most riders will ever use because they are designed to be easily be cut to length and independently adjusted for saddle height and stroke length. Riders can choose to maximize their drop for a given inseam and frame size, or to limit the post's upper and lower range of movement to suit their terrain or riding styles. Technical advantages compared with conventional droppers include longer strokes, lower weight, and a simple, user-serviceable mechanism.
A cut-away view of the Eightpins latching mechanism shows one set of pawls locked into grooves machined into the inner wall of the dropper's stanchion tube.
How It Works
Eightpins is a simple and robust design, largely because its mechanism doesn't need to be squeezed into a 30.6-millimeter tube. The first 100 to 140 millimeters of the frame's seat tube needs to be reamed to accept an insert which houses the post's sliding bushings. The insert is fixed in place by the external seal head. A slender gas strut that is mounted to a through-bolt near the base of the seat tube extends the post. The "Eightpins" latch is mounted to the large, fixed-end of the gas strut.
Latch number one: The Eightpins latch has a pair of keys that slide in tracks machined into the inside of the sliding stanchion tube (just like most droppers do, to keep the saddle aligned). Opposite the keys, however, are a pair of expandable pawls that latch into a ladder of indexing grooves which run the entire length of the inside of the stanchion tube. Each of the pawls have four indexing teeth, hence the name, "Eightpins."
Eightpins is a simple and robust design, largely because its mechanism doesn't need to be squeezed into a 30.6-millimeter tube. The first 100 to 140 millimeters of the frame's seat tube needs to be reamed to accept an insert which houses the post's sliding bushings. The insert is fixed in place by the external seal head. A slender gas strut that is mounted to a through-bolt near the base of the seat tube extends the post. The "Eightpins" latch is mounted to the large, fixed-end of the gas strut.
Latch number one: The Eightpins latch has a pair of keys that slide in tracks machined into the inside of the sliding stanchion tube (just like most droppers do, to keep the saddle aligned). Opposite the keys, however, are a pair of expandable pawls that latch into a ladder of indexing grooves which run the entire length of the inside of the stanchion tube. Each of the pawls have four indexing teeth, hence the name, "Eightpins."
The cable-actuated remote lever retracts the pawls to allow the post to drop or extend and when released, the pawls lock into the indexing ladders. It's a simple and reliable mechanism that offers positive stops, spaced six millimeters apart. It feels very much like an infinitely adjustable post, but the engagement latches with a positive sounding "click."
Use a 2.5mm Allen key to unlock the saddle-height adjustment latch. Turn it 45 degrees and....
...Depress the remote lever to adjust or to remove the stanchion tube. The latch is fixed to the top of the air-spring strut.
Latch number two: Unlike a conventional seatpost, the Eightpins dropper has no external clamp with which to adjust saddle height at full extension. Eightpins handily solved that issue with a second latch that sits on the end of gas strut's shaft. The second latch also locks into the stanchion's indexing ladder. Turning a dial that is nestled into the seat-clamp head unlocks the latch, after which, the user need only to depress the remote lever and the post can be re-positioned up or down to set the saddle height at full extension (or removed completely from the frame). This adjustment only requires a 2.5mm Allen key, used as a lever to poke into a hole in the dial and rotate it. Saddle height can be changed anytime, anywhere.
The height-adjustment dial's 4mm hex-shaft rotates the upper latch to disengage it from the indexing grooves inside the stanchion
A look down the segment I cut from the stanchion tube shows the seat alignment tracks on either side of the indexing ladders that engage the Eightpins pawls.
I ended up cutting about 80 millimeters from the post, which left me with 152 millimeters of drop. I could have upped that to 160, but I wanted to leave some extra post extension for another test rider whose saddle height is slightly taller than mine. You can deviate from the charts to further maximize your dropper's stroke, but you'll need to follow more detailed instructions, which may include adding bottom-out spacers. The key is to shorten the post as little as practical, without causing the stanchion to bang into the through-bolt when you completely retract it. On the flip side, you also need to ensure that the stanchion overlaps both insert bushings at full extension so the post is safely supported. It's common sense, but some cyclists lack those genes.
Travel options and weights are starting points.
Smooth Push remote lever: I am usually not a fan of radial type remote levers, but Eightpins' version has a very ergonomic shape, with an outward flare that emulates the action of a paddle to some extent, but without taking up as much space. It's called "Smooth Push," and the CNC-machined and anodized remote is furnished with a length of aluminum tubing with an adjustment barrel at one end that can be custom bent by hand to direct the cable housing exactly where it best fits your handlebar arrangement.
Eightpins' radial remote lever actually feels ergonomically correct. It's designed to keep your hand in a more natural position on the grip.
Saddle-impact clutch: The innovations keep coming. Eightpins anticipated that the post or saddle could sustain damage in the event of a crash, so they designed in a simple clutch at the base of the gas spring that will break free and allow the saddle and post to rotate up to 45 degrees right or left upon impact. The rider can then return the saddle to normal with a strong twist. The clutch tension is adjustable.
Offset bushes and saddle clamps: Not all seat tubes will accommodate the unobstructed length that the Eightpins assembly requires, so its designers include offset bushings with the kit that allow the post to accept a small amount of fore/aft misalignment. Saddle clamp-heads are offered with minimal offset (like the RockShox Reverb) and also with a 25-millimeter rearward offset that is intended to let
Offset bushes and saddle clamps: Not all seat tubes will accommodate the unobstructed length that the Eightpins assembly requires, so its designers include offset bushings with the kit that allow the post to accept a small amount of fore/aft misalignment. Saddle clamp-heads are offered with minimal offset (like the RockShox Reverb) and also with a 25-millimeter rearward offset that is intended to let
An offset seat-clamp is an option Eightpins offers to allow frame designers to move the seat tube forward without affecting the rider's position over the bike.
 | The post's unbroken 33-millimeter shaft rekindles the cleaner lines of the pre-dropper era. |
Ride Report
For all the tech it embraces, the Eightpins dropper post is remarkably simple to use. Once I was accustomed to the click sound that the latch makes when it locks in, I rarely thought about it. It takes little effort to depress, and it returns with crisp authority. To establish a mid-drop saddle height for rolling trails, simply keep the lever depressed and let the post follow your movements until your bum is at the chosen height and "click" you're there. When I returned to bikes with conventional hydraulically actuated posts, I found myself occasionally checking to see if they were broken or needed adjustment.
I like how the Eightpin post gives the bike a retro look. The post's unbroken 33-millimeter shaft rekindles the cleaner lines of the pre-dropper era. The remote lever is also a low-profile design, and it has a similar effect on the look of the handlebar. That big stanchion tube feels stiffer than a Reverb or a Transfer at similar extensions and, aesthetically, I like it much more than the slender column of a clamp-on post. To be truthful, I would be perfectly happy to rock my Fox Transfer dropper for the rest of my life, but I wouldn't shed a tear if bike makers adopted integrated droppers, especially if they performed as effortlessly as the EightPins does. It's next level.
Reliability has been a non-issue with the post, which has been racking up miles, mostly in dusty conditions. I've crashed it a number of times and knocked the saddle out of whack, so I got to use the clutch feature. I'm not so sure how beneficial the clutch is for the rider, but if it protects the post, that's okay with me. It takes a fair amount of strength to move. The saddle never went askew from leg pressure while I was riding, which was an initial concern. So far, there is a small amount of fore-aft play in the post at full extension (which has been there from the start) and no rotational play at the saddle at all. It sounds and feels as good as new. I've had it apart for a look at the internals. The wiper seal has done its job, and there are no metal bits floating around the pawls or inside the stanchion tube. Evidently, the folks at Eightpins did their homework.
What If?
What if you have to sell your Eightpins equipped bike and the stanchion is cut too short for your potential buyer? Eightpins sells the full-length replacement stanchion tube for €150. What if you get a major sponsorship from a parts maker who wants you to run their conventional dropper? Well, in the case of Liteville, you can purchase a clamp-type seat collar that fits into the same location as the Eightpins' bushing insert and seal-head. The clamp conversion is also insurance for frame owners with worries about being left behind in the race for new technology. For now, Eightpins is well ahead of the curve, and they've designed the post to be easily serviced by its owner. Its parts are simple, and it should be a lifetime investment.
Pinkbike's Take:
| I'm a fan. I like the Eightpins' ease of operation compared to the two most popular conventional hydraulic droppers. I like the fact that it isn't full of oil, and I like their integrated concept. Not surprisingly, its been slow going for Eightpins to break into the OEM market. Presently, Liteville is their major partner, but there is an up-welling of smaller builders, eager to set new trends, who are beginning to displace larger, more established names in the high-end arena. This season may be the turning point for well-vetted innovations like Eightpins' integrated dropper to gain wider acceptance. I certainly hope so. |
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And he did.
At least for now, i would like to see this on a gear-box rig.
Right?
Corporations doing well and bringing cash home is good for everyone. Every single good thing around you is made by corporations and bought on salaries and dividends they pay to you either directly or through taxes.
Liberals are idiots. Can’t figure out simple causal relationships.
And I’m not liberal, I’m just paying attention.
These idiots can not and will never be happy with anything. Otherwise they lose their purpose in existing
Yep, I will sling insults at morons. They deserve it.
Popularity contest! Woo hoo! That comment has more dislikes, therefore it is wrong! Woo hoo!
Oh, it must be her skill to torpedo the most important tax reform we just had, that will ensure American companies competitiveness for decades to come?
With it Trump already achieved more then Obama in previous eight years. But feel free to just listen to tabloid junk instead.
Apparently America is the only country in the world that isn't allowed to ask people to get visas beforehand. Anyone is allowed to go and work there if they feel like it. Or do you just have to be non-caucasian and/or poor? Can someone please enlighten me on the qualifications you need to live and work in America? Also, why does the law seemingly protect people who moved there because they wanted to, and now they've been caught with their pants down but for some reason believe they have a "right" to stay.
It's very confusing!
Can you name me anyone who's a billionaire that you would also call a "failed business man"?
I'm honestly surprised that you can even type on a computer.
Surprise surprise, not all moderates dream the kool-aid.
I don’t like him at all as a person, but his policies, judiciary appointments, and sticking it to the noisy left who drowning in their smug and bile are all good things.
Is Trump a bit of a c*nt? I think so. Does he "hate brown people"? I find that oversimplified and hard to believe. Racist is such an overly and inappropriately used term these days. Call someone a racist and you win the argument. Someone in this thread is giving personal details about his sons and mother in law to prove he isn't racist! How has it come to this? Your word is good enough for me buddy. Can't we all just get along?
It takes all sorts in this life. Some people like apples, some people like oranges. Too much effort is being spent on moaning about oranges, when said time would be better spent enjoying apples.
Can you name me anyone who's a billionaire that you would also call a "failed business man"?
I'm honestly surprised that you can even type on a computer.
Wow. Making lifeofloon look like a total LOON is so easy!
Forbes did their homework. If you don’t trust them, you are beyond help.
Do you need a “proof” that he is US President as well?
Irrational.
Unwitty.
Bottom of barrel.
In all seriousness I think this is a simply fantastic idea. Here's why: the two most common (by far) dropper posts we see here are KS Levs and Reverbs. Both of them are somewhat failure prone, usually due to one of three things happening:
1. Sealhead comes loose and dumps the oil out of the post. This is due to the immense leverage on a small diameter tube, with narrowly-spaced bushings taking a huge load and levering on the sealhead (particularly on the Reverb, but tube flex has a similar impact on the KS) which makes it come loose even when properly torqued. The longer the drop, the more leverage, the more failures we see.
2. Air getting from the air chamber into the oil and causing it to develop sag. The Reverbs are particularly bad for this but it eventually happens to the KS as well. Our belief, though this is very hard to test and prove, is that this is due in no small part due to flex of the upper tube causing poor sealing between the IFP and the inner/outer tubes.
3. Valve actuation problems on the KS (seals sticking) or remote leaks/thermal shrink on the Reverb
Other mechanical (or semi-mechanical) posts (DOSS, X-Fusion Hilo etc) more commonly suffer leakage with the pressurised sealhead having to seal against the outer tube - that seal has to deal with all the flex of the post, and in general is more leakage-prone.
All of these are most likely solved with this design, since you have a larger, stiffer post with less flex and bushing load issues, no hydraulic chamber at all (and what looks like quite a well-considered incremental adjust system), and a mechanical remote and entirely mechanical internals. You also get lighter weight, longer drop and far less of a constraint on the size/strength/stiffness of the internals. Not to say it's guaranteed to be free of problems, it may well have its own, but that's a lot of steps in the right direction to say the least. Well, except that we probably won't make much if any money out of servicing seatposts if this becomes more widely adopted...
But they don’t and I love my new air can that you made. Keep up the good work and thank you for the tech knowledge you share.
...so you're saying that hydraulics and air springs are the primary causes of dropper post failure.
I should also point out that the original comment was definitely not meant to paint those posts in a poor light - I run both of them myself.
So I sold it to my friend and it made him extremely happy, but I needed another dropper and was not interested in a air/oil dropper. So I went with the E13 TRS+ dropper because of the price compared to the " Bike Yoke - Revive". Notably, the TRS+ has more post twisting than any other mechanical post, and this is due to the keyway design. --TO which, I had some delrin keys made up for the keyway and it has removed about 50% of the twisting.-- I contacted E13 with my mod, but have had no reply-- I'm pretty happy with the action and durability of the TRS+ dropper, as well as the allowance of maintenance by the consumer without voiding the warranty. I just wish E13 would show me some prototyping with delrin keyway keys to remidy/lessen the twisting. If they make the keyways keys out of brass as wide as the delrin keys can be, the brass will mill out the dynamic side keyways or the keys themselves, creating more twisting. The delrin keys will not mill out the slides on the aluminum sliding post, the delrin does not mill itself unless there are barbs in the way, has the ability to crush and rebound, and, is self lubricating.
I'm currently looking for a contractor to make a bunch for me to get out to people, but I also need E13 to be on the up-and-up with my progress.
Thing is, I'm like BASF. I look to make things better, faster, stronger; because Tim Allen was a role model!
This year, around summer, I do plan on getting the Revive Dropper, but am hoping that some manufacture designs a consumer HT and FS frames with modern geo that accommodates the 33mm post with anchor holes near the BB. And, if a person does not want to use the 8-Pins anchored dropper, they can put rubber plugs in the anchor welds.
What XCMark is suggesting (I think) is that frame builders use a larger diameter seat tube that would accommodate this post, which would also make it easier for other dropper manufacturers to make a better post with the additional room. I'll add that it seems like it would be simple enough to include an insert (like Liteville does in this case) that would allow you to still run an older, narrower post if that's your preference.
Said no one ever...
WHY would you want this?
I paid $260usd for the TRS+, and am happy with the purchase. The GD-TLP is $325usd and performs better than the TRS+. So I guess the individual question would be; aesthetic or function?
I obviously went with aesthetic!
I was not bashing the product, more questioning if it's pertinent to put to market something with that narrow possibility.
So it's down to 1 brand and custom built, and IMO looking at how the seat tube/suspension pivot are designed on "modern" mtb, they are not there yet.
The first year the 8pins is exlusive to liteville brands, to my knowledge it will be open standard from the second year onwards. You can basically use the "post pin" interface with a straight 34,9mm seat tube and internal routing and fit the post to any frame that uses this interface. The exclusivity in the first year is not a problem since they cant make these things fast enough anyway due to demand from the liteville owners alone.
please mind - at least one part of this post is hilariously expensive to make (the upper sliding tube is a masterpiece of cnc machining with the internal ribbing over 480mm of lenth) and therefore it will propably not be on reverb pricepoint anytime soon.
Since the post needs a straight uninterrupted seat tube it comes with the additional 26 or something set back so you can just move the whole seatpost forward. look at the litevilles seat tube offset on the downtube. Thats quite a lot.
best regards,
Stefan (who actually rides the damn post and loves it).
"Now available! The new 2021 Enduro with integrated dropper post. Specialized engineers teamed up with othershittycompany to introduce the world's first 32.16534mm diameter integrated dropper post with slickshaft technology! Why pay for that vasectomy, when you can just have our dropper post hitting you in the nuts at 500mph every ride?"
The other way is to remove the through bolt at the bottom of the seat tube and then the whole assembly comes out the top of the seat tube. It's super easy to mess with. The cable hooks to the release mechanism half-way up the post, It's accessible and pops right on and off.
Bunch of luddites on here.
I can also verify that I still have nuts, even after riding a 301 for a few years now
its not like there is an option of just sticking it into any other frame if ony the tube would be thinner. and a bigger crossection will result in a stiffer tube. the current seattube diameters originate from when seatposts were non-droper, since then sizes have gone up to ccomodate the dropers, this is just the next step.
"The aluminum post is 33-millimeters in diameter, so it is stiffer and stronger than a conventional dropper and thus, can safely extend farther out of the frame."
That, plus it needs a dedicated frame to work anyway, so making it the same size as established standards is completely worthless.
Doesn't add up.
On a seperate note, can we get a video of the 301 going through its travel? Ballchopper comes to my mind like pavlov's dog.
youtu.be/Xbrft_OPuNo
I don’t see any flexibility built in (10mm) for such changes that happen every couple of years...
no?
only bike where you can use it is litevile and its already equipped with one.
so who going to bay those droppers?
1. "The aluminum post is 33-millimeters in diameter, so it is stiffer and stronger than a conventional dropper": here we go again with the embarrassing use of the equation: bigger is stiffer and stronger. It is not necessarily true: measure please! Saying "it feels stiffer" is frankly completely ridiculous!!!!!!
2. Weight: we have no idea of the weight of the post. How much weight does the huge aluminum seat tube add to the frame?
3. What happens to all the carbon frames on the market? Do they have to integrate the aluminum seat tube into the carbon frame? Or do they build a carbon version, succeeding in what has never been done with a fork?
4. You are stuck with one post out of dozens on the market. Is that good? Is the post reliable? How does it compare with a Revive post? Of course we do not know because it has been used for how long? A week? Three rides?
And finally what happens if anything happens to the seat tube? You through away the whole frame?
2. Its lighter than a reverb, I own one, I had it on the scale.
3. No, they just need to have a 34,9mm seat tube and the post pin standard.
4. Its that good. Its that reliable. And yes, it will last.
5. If you dont like it, use any other dropper you want or no dropper. Standard 34,9mm seatpost and 38mm clamp will fit.
Finally: Why should it break the frame? The forces are the same as any other extended seat post.
1. Again: larger diameter does not mean stiffer or stronger. Please come back with objective measurements and we can talk.
2. You (and pinkbike) are missing the point. You cannot just weight the drop post, you need to take into account the extra weight of the huge seat tube that you have to build in the frame. Look at the thing: it is absolutely massive.
3. You have not answered the question: how do you build this in carbon? and what cost? the only carbon legs in carbon on the market were from DT and they are no longer produced because of the stratospheric expense.
4. Point here is that as usual Pinkbike does not tell you how long, where and how it tested a product.
5. Frankly I see no point what ever to buy a frame with an integrated seat drop ... and then don't use it. Why? Just to carry the extra weight?
And finally: anything that happens to the seat tube (not the seat post) and you are toast. That is the reason why nobody integrates a rear shock in a frame.
1: yes it does, given the same cross section area a larger diameter tube will be stiffer to bending. That is objective basic structural knowlege of how tubing works. Also by increasing diameter while using the same manufacturing tolerances you will get less angualar play between sliding parts.
2. By using material more effectivly (by using a larger diameter) and also eliminating fluids and containment walls, of course this system is and can be made even lighter.
3.There are no difficult geometries in the frame interface surfaces. Carbon manufacturing is no problem.
4.Go read other reviews and opinions, I have yet to see negative experiences of eightpins.
5. Dropper seat post integration into frames of some sort is bound to happen as it makes good sense and current frame-dropper interface of a must have item cam be made a lot better. All moving wear and tare parts are replaceable so I cant see what issues there would be with frame ware. You break seattubes much?
1. Basically, it does. If its not an idiot building it.
2. Since this 301 aluminum frame puts some carbon frames to shame with its weight - I dont see the point of your argument.
3. I think the DT failed due to shoddy workmanship and crappy damping (inherited from pace), not because of carbon legs.
4. Well, I dont care how long they tested it. I OWN the product and I can tell you it outlasted any dropper post in my possession.
5. I still dont see where your extra weight idea comes from. The 301 Mk14 and the 601 Mk4 are the only frames that can currently be equipped with the 8 pins post. Both frames are LIGHTER than their non 8 post enabled predecessors. And on another note. Guess whats lighter. Moving the seattube forward or making it curved?
You are pulling your arguments out of your ass but tell me to be more scientific?
I finally got a seatpost that is lighter than the reverb, has more travel,is way more reliability and has the best sealing I have ever come across with dropper posts. You are bitching about stuff that is not true without ever having tested the 8 pins in the first place. Get a life.
What should "happen to the seattube"? I think you might crush it with an hammer, but other than that I dont think I ever had any problems with any of my litevills in the last... ...500 or so bikepark runs.
But on one point I have to agree: You dont integrate shocks into frames for about a million reasons, coulomb friction being one of them.
Best Regards,
Stefan
Yeah, quite the same thing. NOT.
Best Regards,
Stefan
This is akin to making gear shifters or suspension integrated into the frame. Would anyone really want that?
www.btod.com/ERA-PACI2PC.php?gclid=CjwKCAiAy4bTBRAvEiwAFtatHGrvRX8Kxe7zHoB1asWQgiB_Z1CG8Ek-_diIWBDUkFeA8iPbgT8WdhoC1b8QAvD_BwE
The industry already makes the office style bike seat chair. Just add the dropper version to it now.
Apart from that, you might wanna google "economies of scale" to find out why an office chair can cost as little as it does.
hope did on their new bike with brakemounts, but are not calling it standard. I dont see a problem there.
Like we are gonna FALL for another standard. I’m not ready to DROP my hard earned cash just yet.
I give up