Ellsworth Rogue Sixty - Review

Mar 20, 2017
by Mike Levy  



The all-new, 160mm-travel Rogue Sixty is an important bike for Ellsworth, probably more so than any other bike in the company's history. If it bombs, well, it could be a serious strike to an already tattered reputation. But if it's a winner, it could signal a fresh beginning for a brand that's seen its mostly unfair share of criticism, much of it from people who've never even thrown a leg over an Ellsworth.

The bike in question features their 'XT 1X' build kit that, you guessed it, comes with an XT drivetrain and a single chain ring. This build would normally ring in at $6,495 USD with a set of DT Swiss aluminum wheels, but my test rig showed up with a set of color-matched Reynolds carbon hoops that bumped the price up to $8,420 USD.

Ellsworth Rogue Details

• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• Rear wheel travel: 160mm
• Four-bar, Horst Link suspension
• Carbon front triangle, seat stays
• Internal dropper post routing, Di2 compatibility
• 66° HTA, 74° STA
• Weight: 29lbs 8oz
• MSRP: $8,420 USD
www.ellsworthbikes.com


Ellsworth Rouge
Continuous internal routing makes maintenance a cinch.
Ellsworth Rouge
The lines exit innocuously at the seat tube junction.


Frame Details

I think it's fair to say that Ellsworth has taken a few steps forward in the appearance department. The Rogue Sixty is a looker, especially compared to its predecessors. The bike's front triangle is carbon fiber, as you'd expect to see at this price point, and a 3K weave-finish has been combined with orange highlights. The bike's seat stays are also carbon, and the two sides are joined with a bridge just aft of the aluminum rocker arm to increase rigidity.

The proprietary 12 x 148mm axle features hexagonal ends for the same reason, as does the upper shock mounting hardware, all of which goes in line with what Ellsworth says about aiming to create a torsionally stiff frame.


Ellsworth Rouge
Check out the details on that rocker arm.
Ellsworth Rouge
Ellsworth says that they used a keyed 12 x 148mm axle to improve rigidity.


Frame details include internal cable routing with full-length guides to keep you from having a nervous breakdown while trying to fish out that new derailleur cable, and there's a spot inside the frame for a Di2 battery should you want to go full robot with your shifting. If you know me, you might also know about my fetish for bikes that can fit a bottle inside the front triangle, which the Rogue can do, and there's also a second bottle mount location on the underside of the downtube.

What else... the bottom bracket is threaded, there's a set of ISCG tabs, there's enough tire clearance to make the bike's Highroller II rubber look skinny, and you can't mount a front derailleur.


Ellsworth Rouge
  The Rogue's 160mm of travel comes from a four-bar, Horst Link design.


Suspension Design

The Rogue's 160mm of travel is controlled by Ellsworth’s AEES (Active Energy Efficient Suspension) design, a four-bar system that is said to provide a supportive pedaling feel while under power but remain active for traction. That's easier said than done when you're dealing with this much travel, especially when some riders will care more about pedaling performance than out-and-out bump absorption while many others will look for the exact opposite.


Ellsworth Rouge Sixty


Specifications
Specifications
Release Date 2017
Price $8420
Travel 160
Rear Shock Fox Float X Factory
Fork Fox Factory Series, 36 160mm Boost
Headset Cane Creek Tapered ZS44/56
Cassette Shimano XT 8000 11 speed 11-42T
Crankarms Shimano XT 8000 1X 32T Boost
Chainguide MRP AMg V2 I-05 26-32T
Bottom Bracket Shimano BSA 73mm
Rear Derailleur Shimano XT 8000 GS
Chain Shimano HG-700 11 speed
Shifter Pods Shimano XT 8000
Handlebar Raceface Atlas 35mm, 20mm rise, 780mm
Stem Race Face Turbine 35mm
Grips Lizard Skin Charger Ellsworth
Brakes Shimano XT 8000
Wheelset Reynolds
Tires Maxxis Highroller II 2.3
Seat WTB Volt
Seatpost Race Face Turbine 30.9 150mm





Ellsworth Rouge









Climbing

There seem to be two schools of thought when it comes to bikes like the Rogue and climbing: some people don't give a rat's ass how well their 160mm bike pedals and handles on the climbs just so long as it's a demon on the descents, while the other group knows that just because a bike rips on the downhills doesn't mean that it gets a free pass to suck on the uphills. The second group is one hundred percent correct, of course, and the Rogue would make those riders quite happy.

Rocky Mountain's new Slayer is one of the best pedaling mid-travel bikes that I've ever spent time on, and the Rogue is right there with it when it comes to pedal-powered spunk. There were more than a few occasions when I got to the top of a climb and reached down to flip the Float X's pedal assist lever to the open setting, only to find that it had been left wide open all along. The big Ellsworth also refuses to sit back and wallow in its travel on steep climbs, something that goes a long way to having the Rogue make mincemeat of a lot of technical pitches that have stymied shorter travel and supposedly quicker handling steeds.

The short, 420mm chain stays make it easy to approach those confined corners and have it feel like you're pivoting right over the rear axle, and that's not a common trait among bikes in the same class as the Rogue. The last all-mountain bike that really impressed me with its handling on climbs was Alchemy's Arktos, but the Rogue matches it in every way, and maybe even trumps it when things get tighter than a duck's backdoor.


Ellsworth Rouge


As well as the Rogue ascends, I wasn't a fan of the Shimano XT cassette's massive jump between the two largest cogs. The largest cog on the Rogue's cassette is a 46-tooth pie plate and the one below it has 37-teeth, making for an awkward feeling nine-tooth jump between the two. I get that a lot of riders on 160mm-travel bikes aren't wanting to do anything more than spin up the climb at a relaxed pace, and for them, the nine-tooth gap probably doesn't stand out. However, I often felt like the 37-tooth cog could feel a bit tall on steep climbs, but the gigantic 46-tooth bailout gear was far too low.

All this praise for the Rogue's handling and pedaling means that it's a good choice for a rider who wants all of the suspension without all of the mushy laziness that can sometimes come with it. There aren't a ton of 160mm-travel bikes that I'd be happy to pedal around all day, day after day, but the Rogue is on that shortlist.



Descending

The Rogue's greatest strength is perhaps its all-around handling prowess that nearly always seemed to be just right for whatever situation I found myself in. There are slacker bikes and longer bikes, and there are steeper and shorter bikes, but the Rogue Sixty's numbers seem to grant it the ability to feel at home in more situations than I expected. It's a bit of a shape shifter in that it feels just as happy to piddle along on a blue or green level trail as it is to fly into far more challenging terrain.

Granted, it doesn't quite have the poise of a Slash or Slayer when faced with sections of trail that might make some riders question what they think is fun - it can feel more nervous than those two previous examples at such times - but I'd argue that the slight amount of ground it gives up in those rare moments is worth the all-around capability that it provides.


Ellsworth Rouge


The Ellsworth is a lot of fun regardless of what's on the day's menu, but it's is at its best when the main course includes any and every kind of corner. Slow, fast, tight, or wide, the Rogue dives into all of them in a way that makes the rider feel like he or she can do no wrong. Isn't that exactly what a good-handling bike should do? Of course, but it's rare for a slack-ish 160mm-travel bike not to make its rider feel like they're working hard to get around that one janky corner that every trail seems to have. The Rogue manages to make every corner feel like it has the ideal radius, however, which is a pretty neat trick.

The short, 420mm rear-end no doubt plays a role in how the Rogue can deal with the tightest of bends, but I wouldn't discount the bike's rigidity as a factor as well. Granted, there aren't a lot of noodley bikes out there these days, especially not for a 160lb rider like myself, but the Ellsworth is very clearly a solid package that never once displayed a single odd shimmy or shake.

Unlike a lot of enduro-focused bikes on the market, the Rogue doesn't need to be ridden at ten-tenths on every descent to be fun, which is a great thing when you put aside the ego and realize that pulling on a set of knee pads isn't going to make you Richie Rude. It's not the ground-hugger that a Slash is - more feedback is sent up through the bike - but that makes the Ellsworth ideal for a rider who values the ability to easily pop and play instead of the plow approach that's not always the most fun way of getting things done.


Ellsworth Rouge


For as well as the bike handles, I wasn't that impressed with the Rogue's rear suspension. The flipside to the bike's great pedaling efficiency seems to be a less than super supple feeling to the top of the travel, especially when you're on the gas, and that isn't ideal for a bike with nearly half a foot of suspension and twenty-five to thirty percent sag. This wasn't as noticeable on smooth, fast trails, but repeated high-frequency impacts felt like they were being passed up and into my feet a bit too well.

The opposite end of the stroke seemed to come up all too quick also, with a some hard bottoming moments giving my janky ankles grief a little too often for my liking - that shouldn't happen on a 160mm-travel bike. The stock Float X shock comes equipped with a volume spacer from Ellsworth, but I'd have to add a larger one if I was keeping the Rogue Sixty in my stable permanently.


Ellsworth Rouge




Component Check

• Maxxis Highroller II Tires: You usually can't go too far wrong with big meat from Maxxis, and this is certainly true when it comes to descending. The Highroller IIs might not be as popular as the Minion, but they always work well across a large variety of terrain. The one caveat to that, at least this time around, is a distinct lack of climbing traction. To be honest, this isn't a complaint that I've had before, but I just didn't gel with the Rogue's rear tire this time around, with more spinouts than a Dukes of Hazzard episode when the trail was wet and slimy.


• MRP AMg Chain Guide: I usually get by just fine without a chain guide, but I think that a lot of riders on 160mm-travel bikes would prefer to have one. Ellsworth ships the Rogue Sixty with MRP's little AMg guide that runs drag-free, doesn't clog up with mud, includes a removable bash guard, and weighs a bit over 100-grams. Hard to argue with any of those points.


Ellsworth Rouge
The nine-tooth jump between the two largest cogs feels awkward.
Ellsworth Rouge
Race Face's Turbine dropper post was a gem during testing.


• Reynolds Carbon Wheels: I'm a bit conflicted over these admittedly awesome wheels. I love a set of nice carbon hoops, which the color-matched Reynolds certainly are, but they also add just under $2,000 USD to the price of the bike when it's spec'd with a set of DT Swiss wheels. Value is obviously a subjective thing, and I don't often comment when it comes to prices for that reason, but I bet that the Rogue Sixty would perform just as well with the aluminum rims at $6,495 USD.


• Race Face Turbine Dropper: The Canadian company's dropper post, which uses technology licensed from 9point8, hasn't been trouble-free for us in the past, but that wasn't the case with the one on the Rogue. The 150mm of stroke was smooth, the post performed flawlessly, and its trigger-style remote is one of the best around. It's good to see Race Face get on top of the issues that their early production Turbine droppers had.




Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesI'm going to cut right to the chase: people love to make fun of Ellsworth, which is a bit of a shame because there are a few companies out there that are certainly more deserving of the heat. And people will continue to make jokes at Ellsworth's expense, but I don't think that anyone who rides a Rogue will be among them. Ellsworth's all-mountain rig isn't perfect, but it's an extremely efficient bike that handles like it has been wired directly into your brain. No, it wouldn't be my first choice for out-and-out enduro racing, but it's a great bike for a rider who wants an all-mountain machine that hasn't sold its versatility for the ability to win an EWS race. Mike Levy







About the Reviewer
Stats: Age: 36 • Height: 5'10” • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 165lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None • Instagram: killed_by_death
Mike Levy spent most of the 90s and early 2000s racing downhill bikes and building ill-considered jumps in the woods of British Columbia before realizing that bikes could also be pedaled for hours on end to get to some pretty cool places. These days he spends most of his time doing exactly that, preferring to ride test bikes way out in the local hills rather than any bike park. Over ten years as a professional mechanic before making the move to Pinkbike means that his enthusiasm for two wheels extends beyond simply riding on them, and his appreciation for all things technical is an attribute that meshes nicely with his role of Technical Editor at Pinkbike.


Must Read This Week

304 Comments

  • + 263
 Dear Bike Companies,

When figuring out your geometry please note that the majority of your riders are between 5'9" and 5'11". Why do you make bikes that are either too big or small for a person who is 5'10". The medium is bit small with a 432mm reach and the large is a true large at 462mm. This bike would be pretty good for a 5'8" rider or a 6'0" rider.

Other than that, wish it fit me and I would love to ride it.

Erik
  • + 27
 +1 more
  • + 22
 Oh my god. This.
  • + 38
 This is why Trek makes an 18.5 in most models (along with 17.5 and 19.5).
  • + 62
 I have the same problem but I'm 6'2". Not quite a large, definitely not an extra large.
Why?
  • + 43
 + another 1.
I'm 5'10" and I feel like I'm a tweener on every bike I try. M is too small L is too big.
  • + 7
 #commonsense

Yeah I am in the same boat - 5'11 and always on the small side of a large and the big side of a medium. Making a bike that is ideal for people like 5'9 - 6'0 seems like a no brainer to me (at least for North American/European markets, where your average adult male likely falls into this height range).
  • + 88
 At 5'-10" I've adopted the size up and stem down approach.
  • + 17
 This could potentially be comment of the year... I bet the avg visitor on this site alone is within 5'9-6'0.
  • + 111
 Wow. First world problems. Just pick one. It's going to be a little small or a little big. Get over it. Try finding anything to fit at 6'5".
  • + 31
 @AZRyder: #shortworldproblems
  • + 29
 Ok every 5'10er post your ideal reach and lets see how many people agree
  • + 3
 Average height of North American male is 5' 9 1/2". Bikes to fit that rider could bias a little high or low but one would think that +/- 2" in either direction would be a good fit.
  • + 2
 I'm 5'8, my DH bike is 390mm reach 35mm stem and all mountain is 410mm reach 50mm stem which fit just fine for me. 430 is too long for me.
  • + 3
 Santa Cruz large is pretty good is you're about 5'10. the reach on my Bronson is about 445 I think. However, if you're bigger than that but not huge you'll have a hard time since SC extra large is pretty long.
  • + 5
 @BryceBorlick: ok, I'll play. Around 6', long legs, short torso. Like my reach to be at around 435mm, my stays around 437-438mm, and my seat post to not be ridiculously steep. HA around 65-66. Want to sit in the middle of the bike, not on the rear axle. Don't want the entire bikes wheelbase to be in front of me.
  • + 1
 so true!!! i´m that size!!
  • + 7
 @samfr1000: also, arm reach is tricky bc there's those 6ft+ long femured folks w/o a Phelps like wingspan...like me.
So far, kona probably has the best sizes.
  • + 10
 As a rider who falls directly in this category as well, and had to choose between a medium and a large frame last year I fully agree with what your saying....But its also allowed me to kind of think about it a bit and I wonder if having two choices in size is actually better than one? I mean its fine to have the manufacturer tell you what size of bike to ride, but its almost a benefit to be able to decide if you want a large or a medium frame based on your riding style, preference/etc. two people at 5'10" can have very different body proportions, for example I have short legs and a long torso/arms, so i wen't to the medium size because of slightly lower stand over.
  • + 9
 As a 6" rider I'd be pretty happy with the reach, but as a self appointed ambassador for people with short legs I really can't stand the long seattube. Kona Process seems to be about the only bike out there which is actually built for long dropper posts.
  • + 9
 @philly758: exactly.
According to Chris Porter, we're all riding bikes that are too small/short anyway.
  • - 2
 @axleworthington: but it is a made for the masses Trek
  • + 2
 @samfr1000: I'm 6'2" and I'd be fine with 490. Might be a tad long but with a short stem and it'd be perfect.
  • + 1
 (ignore that last and)
  • + 0
 @src248: I'm 5'11" and I'm fine with 520mm reach and a 10mm stem.
  • + 15
 @lubb1: are you really only 6 inches tall mate, lol
  • - 9
flag torero (Mar 20, 2017 at 13:04) (Below Threshold)
 -1
  • + 6
 @snowwcold55: As a person who's 5'8"... I feel attacked by this comment chain haha
  • + 1
 this is why i ride a santa cruz nomad in size large
  • + 2
 Most sensible comment for sure!
  • + 3
 Why is "short" the antonym of both "long" AND "tall"? Doesn't seem right somehow.
  • + 2
 @snowwcold55: oh I'm sure we'll find out in one of the upcoming PB polls.
  • + 2
 @wolf-amongst-lambs: It totally does seem right to me. In my language, the words for 'tall' and 'long' are the same.
  • + 1
 6' even; 431 reach with 40mm stem and seat slid all the way forward is the only way I can be comfortable on it.
  • + 3
 @mark3: Aw shiiite, my attempts to use the imperial system fails yet again.
  • + 1
 @BryceBorlick: I'm 5'10" the bike l have now is my first expensive mountain bike and when I was looking for a bike I found that I would be falling in the category that all the 5'10"ers are talking about....So I just went ahead and bought me a medium Transition scout and sometimes it feels a little small but I wouldn't go up to a large!!!!!! Medium fits very well with a person that's 5'10".... So go with Transition!!!! Smile
  • + 2
 @AZRyder: agreed, im 6' 210lbs I feel fine on a medium - I feel fine on a large... Shut up and ride!!!
  • + 1
 @AZRyder: 6'6" and riding and XL Covert 29. Reach is 435. It is so short that I don't have a clue what size would actually fit. Who cares though it was cheap, and is fun as hell.
  • + 2
 because im 6.2 and most bikes are too small.
  • + 1
 In between sizes? reach extender headset.
  • + 1
 Waaa waaa, I'm 5'10" and bikes don't fit me! Really, wtf? Buy a med Reign and stop cryin.
  • + 1
 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS That being said, I could live with 432mm. Not exactly a huge deal breaker... but yeah, you have a point. haha.
  • + 2
 @snowwcold55: next pinkbike poll... you saw it here first
  • - 4
flag BrianErickson (Mar 20, 2017 at 21:36) (Below Threshold)
 I am 7'9 and ride a bike with 900mm reach but i have stem with -900mm reach so it is ok
  • + 6
 @BrianErickson: You're riding a unicycle
  • + 5
 @mark3: @lubb1 said he was a 6 inch rider - I took this to mean that his boyfriend is of average size.
  • + 1
 @DJTC: Amen brother
  • + 3
 @jdsy2154: triggering...

I think the problem with this is height isn't the determining factor, im 6'0 but have longer arms than my 6'3 friend (we've measured, you know; arm-off, knob-off- guy things), so a bike that fits an orangutan shaped person like me usually doesn't fit my more stump armed friends, despite being the same height.
  • + 1
 It fits me....step aside sir
  • + 3
 I'm 6ft 5" so choosing a bike frame size is easy. Take the biggest they do. Only downside, I can't ride BMX's
  • + 2
 @iamsuperficial: sure you can... just just don't plan on riding an out of the box complete bike... Some long top tube frames out there...
  • + 2
 I'm exactly 5'10" and I like bikes with a reach of 440-450 and a top tube of 600-610. That's why I just bought the medium Evil Calling Smile . I'll use a 50mm stem on it.
  • + 2
 Personally, I wish they would make the perfect size for me then work their way down!
  • + 1
 @philly758: Me too, but the other day me and my friend switch bikes (both tr patrol, large and medium, almost same spec) and my god, it was a blast on some trails, both park and technical. Now i'm totally lost and the future is grey.
  • + 1
 @bluumax: I feel ya, man. I'm 6'3, so already firmly in the XL realm, plus I have a longer wingspan than my 6'7 brother. Yes, I do believe one of my parents had a bit of gorilla in the genetic mix. Makes finding a proper fit that doesn't feel cramped in the cockpit a bit of a chore, lol.
  • + 1
 I am 5'10" and my curse is that I have short stumpy legs and a drastically long torso. I've always been drawn to shorter, smaller bikes.

I think for me it's a ground clearance and standover height issue. But then every cockpit length is sort of a compromise. New school geometry(long top tube/short stem) , while intended to answer a lot of stuff for a lot of people seems you have me straightened out.

Now if they'd just stop putting the seat tube at such a slack angle so I'm not pedaling from off the back.
  • + 1
 @mark3: Ha ha ha, I'm 6" too and my reach is just fine!
  • + 1
 @snowwcold55 Next PB poll should be "How tall are you?"
  • + 0
 @ellsworthbikes: your brand name's typeface looks like it belongs on a large recreational vehicle. It's really a shame. I guess the upside is that it's not comic sans. I don't want to hate - I just think you'd catch less heat if it wasn't so silly looking.
  • + 1
 Preach it!
  • + 72
 Pinkbike you really need to al least start including anti-squat graphs and leverage rate graphs to justify your comments because eyeballing the IC of this bike and taking into account the seat angle and short rear centre there is little to indicate why this bike would be an efficient climbing bike.
  • + 41
 This, vital does it perfectly with their newer reviews
  • + 22
 VitalMTB will release the Rogue review with those graphs really soon Smile And yes, the anti-squat of rogue is a bit low for an enduro bike, you need to use the shock lever to make it more efficient on pedalling sections. Bye
  • - 1
 Yet if you read the review Andre the tester says that none was used. Doesn't add up and makes me smell bullshit. They can't say that this is a poor descending bike AND a poor climbing bike so they pick the less controversial option. Stinks of paid review.
  • + 4
 Complete agree, these reviews need to be more scientific showing the charts you described rather then an anecdotal reports. Base on the progressiveness or pedalability of the bike the buyer can choose what bike suites them best!
  • + 6
 Yes - everything is pretty much a "I feel" and that's subjective and a get out of jail free card for the reviewer. Let's see something legit besides the feelings of the rider that "liked it" and "felt at home" on the "trail ready" bike. We are at a point where all of the bikes work pretty good, but what in the heck sets them apart?
  • + 5
 420 stays good at climbing? PB needs more science in the reviews. Vital is killing it but I did really like the PB Canyon Sender review from Aston last week. All the other reviews from PB seem to be all the same.
  • - 1
 You guys never heard of shock tunes then? Properly set up low speed damping beats mechanical pedalling efficiency every time
  • + 6
 @ctd07: This is an old discussion with cons and pros. You can indeed use a stiffer base tune (with more LSC), but then it makes the shock harsher on descends... On the other hand, using the mechanical Anti-squat, this anti-squat only kicks in each time you hit the pedals... The disadvantage is pedal kickback, which is not a big problem in most cases. Knolly is an example of which they use lower anti-squats on porpose and allow the rider to compensate for this using the shock lever (this philosophy is stated on their website and the numbers confirm it). For enduro/AM the tendency of most bike brands is to use 100% anti-squat and personally I agree more with this philosophy... Bye
  • + 3
 I agree. I've read in forums where guys are complaining about the climbing chops... One guy said "it climbed like ass", and that he surely rode a different Rogue 60 then the one PB reviewed haha
  • + 3
 I'd also like to see some timed runs on a known loop. Compare against a baseline bike on the same day as different days couldn't be compared too well. Not even close to being 100% but still useful data. I mean we're all searching for seconds on the course, if a reviewed bike is consistently 1+ seconds faster than the "house" bike we have some concept.

As far as the discussion above about shock tuning vs mechanical leverage, too much mechanical anti-squat corrupts technical climbing IMO.
  • + 1
 based on the linkagedesign, I don't think the kinematics are bad at all. I would sacrifice Anti-Squat for better Anti-Rise any day. Pedaling efficiency can be controlled by a simple switch on the lever. Specialized uses this theory as well. High AS bikes don't climb as good as you think on rocky terrain.
  • + 2
 I totally agree that they should include objective suspension analysis like Vital does. On Ellsworth's website they claim they designed the suspension so that it keeps the instant center located very near the line spanned by the chain force vector - the point is that net torque around the instant center from chain tension is almost zero (hypothetically).

IIRC they also claim to have built some anti-squat (ie chain stretch) into the design.

I don't know why the reviewer didn't just say this instead of writing that it 'should be an efficient climber.' Tell us why.
  • + 1
 @jdendy: hmm a little less anti-squat than I was expecting, but maybe that's just the right amount?
  • + 0
 @jaydawg69: The anti-squat values are a little low compared to most companies where roughly 100% in the granny gear is the norm. Specialized has been moving into this direction as well. Companies may design bikes with certain kinematics based on the intended riding style: Kona Process bikes have very low anti-squat values probably because they are gravity orientated, and Kona wanted less pedal interference over rough terrain. In contrast, their Hei Hei trail has higher anti-squat values for better pedaling efficiency. Switching the lever on the shock will reduce bob, but I don't think it will pull the rear tire into the ground, adding traction like higher anti-squat designs.
  • + 2
 @jdendy: I don't think higher AS designs deliver more traction as the suspension doesn't move (as much as lower values).
  • + 55
 Just going on the first dozen or so comments on this article, it seems like this is going to be a hard sell. As great as the bike must be to deserve this review, I don''t think it'll be able to overcome all of the negative rubbish spewed forth by people who haven't read it and formulated their opinion of it solely on the manufacturers name. Pretty much in the opposite fashion to any unfavourable YT review which might come along. For all the people fixating on the $8.4k price; it isn't $8.4k. Its $6.5k with some uber expensive, non-standard wheels on it. Basically, quit yo' bitchin' and read the damn article before you comment.
  • + 36
 $6.5k is still pretty pricey for a xt build
  • + 16
 Unfavorable YT review? Where?! How dare they!
  • + 5
 If the article had a similar amount of smart-assery and bad punsas the comments, there would be much more incentive to read the article first.

I dig the look of this rig. Props to Ellesworth for upping their game and bringing an all-mountain swiss army knife to the party. Now if only I werent 5'11... ????
  • + 17
 Call me crazy however they want, but I sold my "enduro messiah" YT Capra to get a rogue. Many people don't even realize how different Ellsworth is now. It's basically a new company, new ownership, new people working for them (very talented people), they sponsored experienced riders to help them for product development (Lopes, Pepin...). The new bike is simply stunning in person. And they did everything right on this bike: the rear end stiffness is instantly noticable, short and playful, the reach is longer and felt soooo much more balanced than my Capra, the suspension is rock solid and felt great right away. Don't judge a brand new bike on the company's previous history, they wanted to start fresh, and everything they did o this bike supported that statement, so stop being haters and give them a chance. Not asking you to buy one, but be open minded and ride it, it's simply amazing.
  • - 4
flag loaded (Mar 20, 2017 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)
 @Aaronhuang: you must be confused... Pepin sucks at riding and has even worse taste in cars ????
  • + 2
 @loaded: and hairstyle...
  • - 2
 @Aaronhuang: haha exactly!
  • + 6
 @Aaronhuang: how could Lopes have been involved in the production of this bike when he's only just joined them? Design would have been finalised over a year ago.
  • + 2
 @chize: I agree. Such is the trend of the top end products of most manufacturers these days. My original point was not that it is good value. It isn't. My point was that people were getting worked up about about $8k for the bike, when it's more like $6k for the bike and another $2k for wheel upgrade. It's still very expensive, but not as much so as people were making out. Much like when everyone lost their sh*t when the new Aurum was released a couple of years ago and there was one noticeably more expensive model. Said model had ENVE rims, but no-one seemed to notice because once they saw the price and took a cursory look at the drivetrain, they made the deduction that it was overpriced. People are weird. Including me.
  • + 1
 @iamamodel: lopes was not involved with the development of this bike but he's currently working with Ellsworth for many new projects.
  • + 5
 Dear big spenders - no bike, not even one that costs $8.5k - it will NOT make you a better rider. I don't care what brand it is, what material the frame is made of, or what components it has on it.

And saying that "it's really "only" a $6.5k bike, it just has $2k wheels on it", makes it even more ridiculous. It's ok to spend $2k for wheels!?!

Give any solid rider a used $500 frame from 2005, with basic components, and they're still better than you on your $8.5k rig.
  • + 8
 @NYShred: I'm a fairly sh*t rider. If anyone wants to loan me a sweet, carbon/ti steed for the deed then I'm down to test your theory.
  • + 8
 @NYShred: so because someone has worked hard at their job and got a huge salary at the expense of riding they're not allowed to buy expensive bikes and dream of being a good rider?
  • + 3
 Not buying something because lots of other people say it's bad is also called reading reviews. Given how many bike companies there are out there, why take chances with one that has a bad rap? It doesn't seem that unreasonable.
  • + 4
 @NYShred: Skill level should not determine what bike you ride man. Who cares how good you are at riding, as long as you ARE riding and you're happy with your steed.
  • + 2
 Fair play guys, I was simply bitching about price... At the end of the day, it truly is about fun and enjoying yourself with your buds on bikes. If you have the big money to burn, then by all means do so. I personally, have a hard time justifying $8.5k on something that is simply a tool to have fun on.

My point of view comes from being the guy on the mountain or bike park on my used, 5 year old frankenstein frame, that I'm proud to say I built up myself using parts from several other bikes I've built - that didn't cost me any more than $1-2K...

To those with $8.5k to burn: I've got some debts to pay off, can you lend a brotha a couple bucks?
  • + 2
 @snax001: We didn't all go to dentistry school.
  • + 2
 Its all cool man, you can rock up on your Capra in the car park of your local trail centre in your re-condition T5 and feel like a proper unique black sheep

Big up MTB and the haters out there who had just based on brand name; I ride a Kona, apparently the kool kidz say they suck too

#moretolifethanayt
  • + 37
 If Ellsworth is trying to re-invent their image with this bike, then why keep the same name and logo? It seems like it would be smarter to just create a new brand, without having to drag around a bad reputation all of the time....
  • + 18
 I would agree......,ditch the Ellsworth brand and call it Brand X. I would like to know what other brand has screwed as many customers over as Tony Ellsworth has when he ran the show. I would say instead of showing casing another Chinese plastic bike tells us what Ellsworth is doing to support future and current customers. And pleas don't say it's hiring a brand ambassador.
  • + 36
 @rivercitycycles: I know this was entirely not the point of your comment, but my level of pedantry obliges me to point out that "Brand X" is already taken by CRC.
  • + 22
 Well look at Evil. Sure their bikes werr good but the company its self was shit. Now they have gotten better. Ellsworth has a chance.
  • + 8
 @chillrider199: To be fair to Evil, they made some mistakes with the manufacturing of their bikes. When the shit hit the fan they admitted the problem and tried to make right, albeit it took a while since they effectively had to start again from scratch. If it had been Ellsworth they would have claimed it was somehow the buyer's fault when that brand new bike turned up 20mm out of alignment and stonewalled any attempts at a refund/replacement.
.
Above all else Ellsworth's new owners need to keep on top of the customer service, it will take time (as in years) for them to shed the reputation Tony built.
  • + 20
 @chillrider199: totally different situation imo, Evil and Kevin made statements apologizing, admitting to the probs (even if they did blame a Chi factory) and this guy just denied the issue, doubled down on his lies and bs, and now is in hiding ostensibly b/c the new money guy put a muzzle on him. Further, DW who has a good rep put his name on Evil, while the bike rider with possibly the worst rep in his field, Lopes, is associated with the builder with one of the worst reps. Spells more of the same.
  • + 5
 @codfather1234: brand x was in reference to generic. Let's call it Brand XYZ. I've been told it's hard to tell my seriousness from sarcasm.......I guess it's my dry British humour. Wink
  • + 14
 @rivercitycycles: I understood what you meant exactly. I just couldn't miss a chance to be a d*ck to some unknown entity on the internet Wink that's what it's for these days, it seems.... Safe trails all.
  • + 6
 My thoughts exactly. It's like salvaging a name that's been tainted.

Hey, that's a good name for a bike company: Taint Bikes.
  • + 2
 It is far harder for a company to build a brand from scratch with zero following than improve on their current brand recognition with new products and marketing. The barrier to entry as a mainstream bike brand is very tough.

Think about it this way: you go into a bike shop with two identical bikes for sale. One is a Santa Cruz xyz the other is a no name xyz. Most people in the know would pay more for the known brand based off of reputation and marketing hype alone over an unknown brand.
  • + 5
 @Lastpikd, but you'll always buy the Santa Cruz xyz over the Ellsworth xyz.
  • + 2
 Isn't Tony still with the company? Last I heard he just got more investors and bought the company back from the company he sold it to after they were about to go belly up at fraction of the cost. Some shady stuff going on.
  • + 1
 @rivercitycycles: the aluminum bits and frames are made in the U.S. and you can ride it for a month and return if you don't like it
  • + 2
 @uphill-blues: 'Taint what you ride,
''Tis how you ride it'. There's your company slogan.
  • + 38
 'The suspension doesn't feel good at the beginning of the stroke and at the end of the stroke.' Wow, take my $6-8k! I have to have this bike!
  • + 1
 Lulls!!!!!
  • + 15
 What, you're just gonna completely ignore the creamy middle!?
  • + 1
 At least it climbs good for its travel (?)
  • + 1
 @daweil: Except that it spun out a lot which is apparently due to the high roller and not at all anything to do with the bike...
  • + 6
 @Crooks: Oreos are so good and it's not because of the 2 cookies!
  • + 33
 Let me sum up this bike: it's a solid "me too" effort with a premium price tag and a name that no one who knows anything about bikes would touch with a 10-foot (3.05m) pole. If they knocked about 80% off the price and offered a warranty better than anyone else, I might consider taking a risk. Maybe.

I propose the following by way of guarantee: "if you aren't completely satisfied, we'll fly Tony Ellsworth to your house, so you can personally punch him in the nuts." (that's the remedy everyone I know that owned an Ellsworth is looking for)
  • + 11
 Yeah, all of this. Especially punching TE in the chode.
  • + 17
 Only if I can use an old Moment linkage as brass knuckles...
  • + 1
 It's pretty "me too" in the material choice and travel departments. The suspension design is pretty interesting, though.

Would not buy based solely on the company rep, though.
  • + 28
 For all the ppl saying "Yeah he screwed ppl but lets focus on how well it rides and give it a fair chance" (my paraphrase)... that is not the point.

The point is this guy has screwed so many riders over that you do not ever give him another cent. As in "screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me" (insert Bush joke).

Secondly, @Mikelevy its not about "people continuing to make jokes at Ellsworth's expense" at all, thats an absolute mischaracterization. Its about the above.

This guy is a con and a scam artist, why should anyone support that- irrespective of if it was the best bike ever made?
  • - 15
flag loaded (Mar 20, 2017 at 12:04) (Below Threshold)
 I have to say calling Tony a con or scam artist is flat out ignorance. I know Tony very well and he is in no way a con or scam artist... he's actually a good guy, the issue is that he believes he can make no mistakes. If the guy could take a step back and own his problems the Ellsworth outlook would be totally different. It's normal to make mistakes in life, it's not normal to always blame others for your failures. With all that said I have personally owned more Ellsworth bikes than anyone on this site and will say they do really. work. The only issue I see here is not about the bikes working but about supporting a company that blames its mistakes on the customers. So if you are gonna bash Ellsworth please let us know if you are hating on the company or the actual bike... my guess is you will be hard pressed to find actual bike haters... just brand haters
  • + 9
 @loaded: So how is blaming the consumer for your own problems not a scam.
  • - 6
flag loaded (Mar 20, 2017 at 13:11) (Below Threshold)
 @rideonjon: anyone who neg prop'ed me completely missed my point... I am not defending Ellsworth at all and no longer own any Ellsworth products.

My point was that calling someone a scam artist means they knew something was flawed but didn't care and still tried to push it on the consumer for profit.

Lets be clear this is NOT what Tony was doing. Instead he truly believed the design, construction and materials used were the best possiable and bike failures were caused by improper use.

This issue is that he's naive to the abuse a mountain bike can be subjected to and inadequate materials were used!! But let's be very clear, it's not like he was using super thin wall tubing to save costs know the bikes would break... he truly believes he's using the best materials for the application.

So let's not confuse wanting to build the best possiabe bike around but not knowing how with a flat out scam artist.
  • + 1
 @rideonjon: Tony Karklins left Ellsworth to make his own brand about a year ago...it's HIA Velo/Allied Cycle Works or some shit. So if your issue is with Tony, don't buy Hia Velo/Allied as he's no longer attached to Ellsworth as far as I know....
  • + 1
 @rupintart: facts. I was totally sure that Ellsworth had been sold and Tony had moved on. I remember when the sale was announced in a press release on here and people commented that they would be better to ditch the name and start anew. Hmm...
  • + 2
 @loaded: Yah i hear what your saying but his QC was poor and i'm sure none of his designs has sufficient destructive testing done.How can you stand behind a product when you don't know if it will fail or not.You NEED to know the limits of your product,Tony never did,he just thought they would be OK.
  • + 6
 @rupintart: Tony Ellsworth is the Tony we're talking about.
  • + 1
 @rideonjon: That Tony sold it a long time ago, even before Karklins became the GM in 2014/15....and is no longer associated with Ellsworth either. Complaining about Ellsworth now because of things Tony did is akin to currently complaining about Cannondale for things done in the 90s....neither of them are in the same hands anymore, so the complaints are pretty moot.
  • + 2
 @loaded: I don't know if TE is an engineer of some kind or what, but at what point does ignorance become the same thing as malice? The guy should know exactly what his frames can take, and if he doesn't he should test them and do some FEA. If he sells frames based on the belief that they're strong, as opposed to the sure knowledge derived from experiment or theory, that's negligent.
  • - 1
 @WaterBear: for all the haters out there please show me a single gravity or even a moment for that matter that has failed.

The issues in the past were with the uber light Truth and epiphany models. Tony actually does a ton of machine stress tests (I would know I've seem them) and then he gives out prototypes for further testing.

If you take a super light weight XC bike and beat on it what do you think is going to happen?

Hell that huck master Bender rode for them and never had bike failures because he was riding the correct bike for the application!

Perfect analogy that might help everyone... Ford built a Raptor Truck that claims it's a Baja killer that can be jumped and hit whoops, we'll take it to the real desert and they fall apart so fast (personal expirence of owning 2) so should I say that ford is scamming people because there truck can't handle real off road abuse? HELL NO! It's the morons that get in them and think they have a trophy truck who destory them in 20minutes.

Honestly all the bike haters and misinformation have made me sick and really kills the whole sport for me.

Sad part is 80% of the people on this site can't even ride a bike to its full potential so they look to the bike to blame for their lack of skills.

I'm done ranting and could give a shit how hard you negeative prop me cause I know the real truth, not the 16yr old kid PB band wagon.

Here is a thought to all... shut the fu*k up and ride as many bikes as you can to find what works, just stop jumping on the TE bandwagon, the shit is beyond old, if you don't like it don't buy it, just shut the f*ck up!!!!
  • + 5
 @loaded: I had their burliest dh sled the Ellsworth Dare,it failed horrible at a weld at the seatube BB junction.A 4" section of tube between the BB and seattube pivot came right off the bike.Tony told me to go f*ck myself.$3500 down the drain.So yah i think he's an ass.And will never ever think of buying another Ellsworth.
  • - 3
 @rideonjon: let's get the fact me straight... did the wend fail or the material around the weld because of too think wall tubing.


PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE A WELD FAILED... Ps all properly done welds have the tensinal strength of 20lbs/sq inch.

But if you are 16yrs old and don't know much it's easy to blame others... pretty typical of the current generation... jump on the band wagon with no scientific data to back shit up.

If you have Tony cool, just stop bashing a bike because you have heard negative things about the owner.

Please bash the owner, not the bike it's self
  • + 2
 @loaded: Weld failed.They also powder coated the inside of the bearing bores crushing the bearings they installed.Morans.I don't have the frame anymore,i sold the rear end and shock for parts.So the bikes were crap and Tony E's an a*shole.There you have it.
  • - 5
flag loaded (Mar 21, 2017 at 16:26) (Below Threshold)
 @rideonjon: if you new anything about the brand the you would know all US aluminum frames were anodized. Welds don't fail... a proper weld will hold 20,000psi in tensial strength (I would know as I've built countless off road trucks and buggies. The issue is the wall thickness was too thin and the tube failed. I will give away my current bike to anyone that can prove a weld actually failed... not the material.

So there you have it, another Pinkbike key board warrior with nothing to actually prove... I guess jumping on the band wagon of ignorance is the thing to do.

Stay in school kids and learn the facts before assimilating with the masses in hopes of getting more props on comments.

I don't care if you love or hate Tony just stop saying he intentionally scammed people...that's what's wrong with the bike industry and why I have moved on to a real job and real life
  • + 0
 @loaded: I said the weld failed.Period.End of story,you must be pretty thick not to understand that.If you don't like it too bad,the bikes are garbage.
  • - 4
flag loaded (Mar 21, 2017 at 18:16) (Below Threshold)
 @rideonjon: pretty thick?!? Hahaha without pics you have no proof!! Proper welds are much stronger than the sournding material assuming you are welding the correct wall thickness in the appropate manner.

The only thing garage are your false claims... pics or it didn't happen
  • + 0
 Garbage*
  • + 1
 @loaded: Really ,pics or it didn't happen.Go f*ck yourself,oh and your shitty bike.

on a side note it looks like the forum has spoken,upvotes for the truth(haha see what i did there) downvotes for the bullshit liar.
  • - 3
 @rideonjon: wow dude you clearly haven't been laid in years or clearly have some deep child hood issues.

Sad thing is I wasn't defending Ellsworth I was just trying to set the record straight.

The forum has spoken?! Haha 95% of the people haven't even ridden an Ellsworth much less understand Finanante element analysis, they just junp on the band wagon.

And f*ck my self?! Nah I'm gonna go bang my super model girlfriend in my mansion on the beach then get stoned as hell and go to In-an-out. If you want pics let me know and I'm happy to ruin your life.

Get a clue before you spout off at the mouth with ZERO PROOF!!!!

Clown
  • + 1
 @loaded: Zero proof ha,i had the bike it broke.What proof do you need other than that.I am impressed with your powers of deduction,like identifiing my childhood traumas and such.You'll have a promising career as a clairvoyant or possibly a polititian.Enjoy getting high on the beach as i'm sure there will be more of that full time in your future.
  • - 1
 @rideonjon: again can you provide data that the weld broke or the material around the weld... it's a simple question, why can't you answer it truthfully? Pinkbike deserves the truth not just some random old man spouting off that Ellsworth welds fail!

All I want and everyone else is PROOF!!! without it you are just another keyboard warrior.

As for my future... we'll it's all set so no need to go there.

TELL PINKBIKE THE TRUTH!!!!
  • + 0
 20,000psi
  • + 2
 @loaded: Proof,well the proof is all around you.You just choose not to see it.Good luck with that outlook in life.Tony Made a very poor product and called people liars when his product failed.I see you and Ellsworth have a lot in common.
  • - 1
 @rideonjon: you really are clueless and are the problem with this industry. I mean just look at your profile... can you even ride a bike?

I'm not one for personal attacks but your ignorance warrants many. As for your Dare breaking, did your wife (or husband) run it over in the garage?

And since you think Tony made such a poor product please explain what that is since you are an expert.

And to the rest of the haters at least Tony followed his dream to quit his day job and build the best full suspension mountain bikes around. What have you done for the sport except bitch and complain?

Lower your seat post out of your ass and get a clue.

Neg prop away, I sleep good at night know the actual truth NOT internet bandwagon shit!!!
  • + 2
 @loaded: enough. Let it go grasshopper. You guys disagree across the Internet. Have you not used the Internet before? People never end up agreeing so just drop it. The rest of us who commented on this article at some point have been getting notifications every time we come to pinkbike, and it is just you spouting each time. If you and Tony are buds, that's great man. You and this guy clearly arent buds, so just move on.
  • - 1
 @VwHarman: I'm not buds with TE I just hate people that lie all over the internet with no proof at the expensive of damaging a business he doesn't even own anymore!

I'm done... sorry to everyone for the rant, just trying to keep the readers accurately informed
  • + 1
 @loaded: Wow you really are confused,or are you Tony Ellsworth.I think you are,Tony you made shitty bikes,now move along.Attacking my skills on a bike is hilarious over the internet.Your a fool.Let the butthurt flow though if you must.
  • + 1
 @rideonjon: you are what's wrong with this world, you jump on the bandwagon and have never even owned an Ellsworth. What's even funnier is you send me a private message full of personal attacks and then block me!

I feel bad for your kids... what kind of role model are you?
  • + 1
 @loaded: it looks like you just are too stupid to understand that Ellsworth ripped a load of people off and then insulted them by calling them liars.The guy is an a*shole,just like you.
  • + 0
 @rideonjon: again with the private personal attacks...you really are sad man, I feel sorry for you... sounds like you have a miserable life. Go bother someone who cares
  • + 0
 @loaded: I love how you diagnose peoples deficiencies over the internet.Amazing.Ha.Just leave it noboby cares that you love Tony Ellsworth.

PS.My truck is better than yours.
  • + 2
 please keep it going...this dick measuring contest is what everybody wants to read....my blah is better than your blah....I've seen blah and blah blah blah....

As a side note, welds don't fail...the tube itself cracks AT the weld, but it's not the weld itself. So a frame broke on you...that sucks...it happens to thousands of people. Some of those failures are totally user error and that's the reason companies say go f*ck yourself because they're the ones getting scammed out of a frame. I'm not saying you were doing that, but jesus christ, if they don't warranty your frame don't buy from them again. Tell people beware...but don't go spouting shit you have no idea about saying "the weld broke." That's akin to me saying I broke my leg simply because I can't walk on it anymore when all I did sprain it badly (and I can't walk on it.) Yes, my leg is "broken" but there's a difference between a broken leg and not being able to walk on it. Same end result (not being able to walk on it), different avenue which can give a totally different outlook on the situation.
  • + 1
 @rideonjon: please stop sending me death threats via private messages! I can't believe you want me to die- as a responsible father you should be a better role model. Take the advice from your screen name a ride on jon... your hostility, hatred and jealousy isn't wanted here.

People come on pinkbike to be informed not read bandwagon lies. The sad part is you keep sending me hostile private messages but then block me.

I really do hope the mods suspend your account
  • + 1
 @rupintart: Funny but he weld did break,there was no penetration,i work in a fab shop and have plenty of experience with this sort of thing.But hey if you guys want to keep believing those bikes are awesome go ahead.
  • + 1
 @loaded: Death threats?show me once where i threatened your life,making shit up as you go again.Just like your homie Tony.Pathologcal liar aren't you.I can tell your fishing to get me banned it's pretty pathetic.Classic passive agressive behavior.Come on as the aggressor and them be all "poor me he attacked me".
  • + 1
 @rideonjon: you want me to post all the private messages you have been sending me?

I've asked you multiple times please leave me alone, no one cares that you are super insecure and feel the need to attack people.

You don't like Ellsworth bikes (no proof why but oh well) we all get it... leave it at that and stop the personal attacks!
  • + 1
 @loaded: I'm done.later.
  • + 0
 @rideonjon: Failure due to lack of penetration means that the two surfaces didn't "weld" together, which means it cracked AT the weld, not the weld failing...i.e. the puddles didn't crack in half. The puddles would have to have a crack in them for the WELD to fail..... the filler didn't "stick" in all the places to which means it failed AT the weld not the weld failing. Failed welds are extremely rare....failure AT a weld isn't...and 99.9999999% of bicycles fail at a weld, not a weld failing. Either you don't understand the difference between the two, verbally expressing it is an issue, or you're lying....

I don't care one way or another about the frames or company...but it'd be a good idea to know the difference so as to not inadvertently spread misinformation
  • + 0
 @rupintart: I appreciate that you are trying to be neutral third party here and bring some common sense into this cluster-cuss of an exchange. I think your comment about verbalising the issue is likely the issue. A simple miscommunication. That said, for @loaded and @rideonjon to devolve to the point this devolved to, where people are attacking each other and accusing one another of threats and garbage, they both should be embarrassed. Honestly. Comment sections should be fun, and a good time. This was horse shit. Although that one comment about my truck is better than your truck, that was funny. This was as close as I have come, in all my years of being on Pinkbike, to reporting these two for being ridiculous. Lets talk bikes. It's why we are all on here when we should be working instead.
  • + 1
 @rupintart:Yes you are correct and my terminology was wrong.It failed AT the weld.The bb side of the weld had zero penetration.There was anodizing creeping in the weld.But really who cares at this point it's all a waste of our time.Sorry you guys had to witness this BS.
  • + 28
 Finally I can prove the bike industry is full of shit. I am usually too lazy to check, but now I have the proof.

6495 vs 8420. The msrp of the DT Swiss wheels are 835$ and the Reynolds are 2500$. That is 1665$ difference, yet to put those wheels on it requires a 1925$ extra. So, they are getting that big a difference in the cost from the manufacturer? Assuming they get a 50% msrp and ... let me see, carry the one.... that works out to. Yup, the consumer getting a big bit of tire tread in the rear. In this case it looks like this bike would actually be considerably cheaper to build from new frame and on-line bits. XT even di2 is not super spendy. Wheel prices above. Fork runs 979$ from Jenson.
I am sorry, this industry has gotten too greedy. Finally the mathematical proof.
  • + 27
 $6000-$8000 bike , with 160mm...and it wouldnt be your choice for "enduro" .....but it would be a great "all mountain" bike. ??? What a world we live in.
  • + 4
 My thought exactly. Ellsworth has no chance...and based on what I've heard about the brand, they don't deserve one.
  • + 7
 And for $8k you get aluminum atlas bars(that dont even start at 800mm).
  • + 0
 @nvranka: what you have heard about the brand is likely rooted in about 10 years ago. They have been sold to new owners and are now trying to rebuild from previous missteps. Good luck to them, the comment section here suggests they need as much as they can get!
  • + 2
 @VwHarman: Why, exactly, should I as a consumer give them another chance? I don't want my money to disappear into an unresolved warranty claim. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
  • + 2
 @WaterBear: Just giving context. Didn't suggest anyone should or shouldn't purchase. Only suggesting that a new parent company and different management may lead to different company ethos and a different customer experience.
  • + 3
 @VwHarman: they should have rebranded then. Whichever PE source got behind Ellsworth significantly underestimated the general community distaste towards this brand
  • + 1
 @nvranka: I think I said exactly that somewhere else in this comment thread. Brand identity is way too negative at this point.
  • + 21
 The 3k weave is nice. I once had a 2015 Devinci Troy with the 3k weave and it looked super slick. Would be nice to see a few more carbon bikes opt fro something other than the flat matte black. FWIW I very tired of bikes being tested with carbon hoops, it adds just another level of pricing stupidity.
  • - 2
 Make 3k weave great again.
  • + 41
 I always thought 3K weave was a bit plaid out.
  • + 3
 @Fix-the-Spade: IMAGINE A 3K WEAVE WITH PLAID PATTERNS PAINTED ON
I have too much flannel already but if any bike company did that I would buy it regardless of how it rides or cost
  • + 20
 Seems like a solid bike. Lot of money for an XT build considering how cheap it is to buy online from Germany and considering that Ellsworth must pay pennies for it.
  • + 16
 $6.5K for an XT build seems very steep. There are many other boutique brands (SC, Yeti, Etc) that aren't direct to consumer where $6.5K gets you a full XO1 eagle build that retails for over $1k more than XT... For a brand rebuilding their reputation, I think they missed the price mark by a wide margin.
  • + 16
 So if YT is like the messiah of bike companies here on Pink Bike that can do no wrong, is Ellsworth like the devil, doomed to be frozen for all eternity in the center of hell? Or is that Specialized?
  • + 5
 Um, the devil is cool.
  • + 2
 That is unremarkably true!
  • + 0
 @Trekslash360: What part is not true?
  • + 18
 "It feels happy to piddle along on a blue or green level trail"

Gotta admit, Ellsworth knows their target market!
  • - 1
 LOL so true. I don't think I've ever seen a half way decent rider atop an Ellsworth....but God knows you don't see them at all anymore.
  • + 13
 I am done talking shit. It's simply unfair. There comes a point when it gets old. Yes, their history is rife with issues and ugliness but I've never ridden one so I can't be judgemental. Overall this bike looks good, not great, but good. It's consistent with most of the other bikes out there in many regards. Would it be my first choice? Definitely not. But for somebody it might be the perfect match. Neg prop all you want, but Mike is right, there are other brands/bikes out there that are far more deserving of a good old fashioned shit-storm. So Ellsworth, for now, you have one less complainer.
  • + 5
 Good to see you finally grow up buddy!
  • + 2
 @aoneal, it's all for laughs. We all did enjoy ragging on the fat kid in the school at some point. Throw him the ball, he's uncoordinated it gets actually funny. Scape goats are necessary - they make us all feel better about ourselves.
  • + 13
 I'm glad this review was done to give Ellsworth a fair shake. As much as people dump on some brands, other brands get a pass for making subpar or bikes that people assume are better than they are because of brand loyalty or marketing. It's a little like the iphone phenomenon (not saying iphones are garbage, though).
  • - 5
flag iamamodel (Mar 20, 2017 at 16:04) (Below Threshold)
 iPhones are not garbage, but you are paying double for a Sony or Samsung with the same performance.
  • + 9
 @iamamodel: haha this is a pet subject of mine. iPhones are broken by design. Imagine if you bought a laptop and to be able to use all the features that you would normally expect you had to plug it in to a desktop computer. That's how it is with iPhones with their walled garden. If i want to buy music i like (a good portion of the music i buy isn't on iTunes. I know, BUY music!? Crazy right?), I would have to download it on my laptop, then use an awful bloated piece of software to transfer it to my phone so i can listen to it on the go.

On android i can just download the music, and put it in the music directory in the file system (file system!? I know, far out eh?) and listen away. Or transfer it to a dedicated music player with an OTG cable.

Broken by design = rubbish.

Ahem.

I'll shut the door on my way out.
  • + 14
 what's an Ells worth? 'Bout $50.
  • + 8
 First of all a 6-8k bike that's not your choice for enduro racing. What's the point in spending that much then. Secondly 2k EXTRA for carbon wheels!!! On a bike that still isn't your first choice. What a waste of text and time writing that review. It's too expensive with a stupid option list and doesn't perform and has sub par for the money parts. You wonder why people slate the company despite never riding one.... I'll buy a Capra, Jefsey, Tues and a carbon road bike and still be better off than buying this. That's what's wrong with the bike industry these days!!
  • - 10
flag VwHarman (Mar 20, 2017 at 14:42) (Below Threshold)
 You say all that, but you probably don't have a Tues, Jeffsy, or Capra. You actually most likely will but none of those. Step your critique game up!
  • + 7
 I've always seen people bring up TE scamming people or have bad things to say but is this from personal experience or from reading other people's comments? I had a 2005 Ells Truth and I loved it, I'm a heavy rider and I eventually cracked the frame(which that design was notorious for), granted it was a 2005 that I bought used and i'm a heavy bitch, I knew the risk. Either way, I contacted Ellsworth, and even though I was the 3rd owner of the bike they helped me out. They gave me 50% off a new frame and component swapping. I went from a 2005 front triangle to a 2014 with all new bearings and headset for $600 shipped, they did all the labor and shipped over night. Any other company, not just bike's, would have told a 3rd owner of something that they were out of luck and they wouldn't help. Either way not all stories are bad.
  • + 7
 The review touched on the bikes climbing ability, but basically admitted that it's a four bar linkage with a tweak, and a tuned shock. Sorry, but if this is one of the best pedalling bikes you've spent time on, I am inclined to ask what other bikes of this price have you ridden? And what DW Link bikes? So many platforms claiming this and that, and reviewers the same. In my opinion this is a proven downhill system but has not got the pedalling prowess of some of its boutique competitors.

2c
  • + 3
 And it is great at climbing but if you get all the way to the end of the review it turns out that it spun out on climbs a lot and that was somehow the fault of the HRII rear tyre...
  • + 9
 They made a hot looking bike. Damn.
  • + 5
 It seems like a good looking and perfectly good all mountain bike. The problem is that there are TONS of bikes like that at that price point with much better brand recognition. If Ellsworth wanted to jumpstart their brand they should be offering something completely unique or offering that bike at an introductory price that is so low that it would be impossible to pass up.
  • + 7
 Dear Ellsworth, welcome and thanks for joining the rest of us here in 2017. You were kind of stuck in the 90's since, well, the 90's.
  • + 2
 Yep, nice looking bike with an up-to-date geo and design. Actually, the Reach on the XL is soooper long (490mm).
  • + 9
 be nice if it had a bigger rocker link
  • + 7
 Super tough sell. Lotsa good bikes for $6500. Lookin forward to seeing Lopes in action on it too. I do like the philosophy of a 160 bike that can climb well.
  • + 7
 You could get an X01 Eagle Nomad for $200 more.
  • + 2
 @seraph: whoa that really puts in perspective... wait is that for this model with carbon hoops or the standard?
  • + 4
 @colemanb: Standard build. The Nomad CC with X01 Eagle is $6700. That's with carbon cranks and Guide RSCs as well. Heck, for $8000, you can get the Nomad with XX1 Eagle, Guide Ultimates, and i9 hubs, which I'd honestly take over carbon wheels. Ellsworth does have an X01 build kit, but it's pretty lousy. $7000, and you get 11-speed X01, a GX crankset, XT brakes, the same DT Swiss alloy wheels as the XT build. They literally just change the 11-speed Shimano parts for 11-speed SRAM parts and charge you $500 more.
  • + 3
 @ChristophColombo: And who the f*ck wouldn't take a Nomad over this if they're in the mix for a 160 bike? Fo' realz.
  • + 5
 Why does Ellsworth get such a bad wrap? i was out of the MTB world for just long enough that when i left, they were fine bikes and when i came back no one ever talked about them until right now.
  • + 4
 Terrible treatment of staff. Terrible treatment of customers ("Our bikes are awesome, so if you break it, it is your fault" -even though MANY people had problems). Tony was a dick to others in the industry (I saw it first hand). Many tiny seeds were sewn and were unnoticeable, but after many years these seeds sprouted and joined into a tangled mass of impenetrable weeds.
  • + 7
 If B-lopes wins open/pro men at sea otter DH and Enduro, not the masters men class.....I'll consider it.
  • + 8
 Unimpressed by the build for $8420...
  • + 4
 I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that that I've heard similar "pedals super efficiently, but finds the end of its travel quickly" comments between Intense and now Ellsworth. The common link: Brian Lopes. The guy is a legend and has more talent in one fingernail clipping than I do in my whole body. Could having a pro who has different needs than the average joe potentially have a negative impact? Then again you'd think it'd be more progressive. Maybe I'm just talking out of my hindquarters
  • + 3
 Yeah Lopes doesn't design the bike tho, right? Plus his shocks are uber dialed/tuned. Not all of us get a pro tune
  • + 7
 Even after a revamp Ellsworth takes some un-needed heat, and I bet it's a better bike then 1/2 the haters are on.
  • + 8
 Ellsworth must be brave to allow their reviews on pinkbike nowadays...
  • + 4
 As posted down in the neg props, if this climbs like a mid travel bike but doesn't quite descend like a larger travel bike, how does it compare directly to mid travel bikes as this seems to be (reading the review) what it is competing with.
  • + 4
 If Evil can come back from their fiascos then certainly we should be giving Ellsworth a shot given their long tenure in the sport. Also, big spelling mistake in the second banner.
  • + 3
 hate to make this the last comment, but is it really nesassary to write a short review of the components with the review of the bike? We all know about the dam tires already. If anything, tires would be the last thing i would want to be regergitated back a 1000x. Yeah, we get it. On an $8000 bike, you have to knock something to make it seem like it isnt a paid sales pitch.
  • + 7
 Over 8k for an XT build on a bike?!
  • + 14
 As they stated, it's the carbon hoops that brings the price up another 2k.
  • + 4
 that includes 2K for the carbons wheel set.
  • - 6
flag karoliusz Plus (Mar 20, 2017 at 7:26) (Below Threshold)
 It's not a bike. It's Ellsworth!
  • + 6
 It's still over 6k for an XT build then if you swap wheels, that still doesn't pass my BS detector.
  • + 3
 @LucWicklund: Yeah I didn't miss the Carbon wheel part. It's still a high price for the drivetrain components at 6k
  • - 4
flag poah (Mar 20, 2017 at 8:27) (Below Threshold)
 better than SRAM shite
  • + 7
 @nyhc00: I agree 100%. $6500 for an XT build, where is the money going? In the $350 drivetrain? In the $500 wheels? All the other bits and pieces are pretty pedestrian when you look at the build. "XT" is great and all, but I'd expect a bike costing that much to have some real bling.
  • + 6
 @Ride406orDie:
I agree! That's a $3500 bike all day!!
  • + 4
 Everything in the past has been ugly AF, but this is the only decent bike they have ever made and it's one I'd like to try. But for the price tag you would never catch me buying it lol
  • + 2
 I don't think my skin is thick enough to handle all the ribbing I would surely receive if people thought I paid retail for an Ellsworth. Far too many other great options out there without the all the baggage for this price!
  • + 3
 "...but it's a great bike for a rider who wants an all-mountain machine that hasn't sold its versatility for the ability to win an EWS race" - Yeah, for almost 8.5K. Hmm, let me think.
  • + 4
 WTF do you people do for a living? Every day I see another >$8k bike reviewed here. Who buys these things? - serious question.
  • + 2
 Two words. Silicon Valley...8-11k builds are a dime a dozen.
  • + 4
 The only progression in that frame is how ugly it gets as you look towards the back of it...and there is a LOT of ramp up in that regard.
  • + 2
 "I'm going to cut right to the chase: people love to make fun of Ellsworth, which is a bit of a shame because there are a few companies out there that are certainly more deserving of the heat"

I have nothing against Ellsworth but do tell which companies deserve heat.
  • + 2
 I agree with what most everyone has said

Tony is still involved with his brand and IMHO still comes off as kinda of a dick- reading the comments, Tony Ellsworth still has a negative reputation and that spills over to the Ellsworth brand-

The graphics are certainly out of the norm, sometimes that's a good thing but nothing I can see indicates these are trend leading graphics which kinda just says "weird"

Nothing exciting about suspension or kinematics as far as I can tell-

Tony should start by rebuilding his persona and reputation if he is really set on restoring this brand to mtb glory
  • + 5
 So which is it? "Rogue" like the X-Men superhero or "rouge" like the makeup?
  • + 1
 "Ellsworth has taken a few steps forward in the appearance department"... well I mean that's not saying very much... still don't understand the point behind the flared, dog-bone like piece of carbon on the seat stay by the pivot for the rocker... quite frankly doesn't look very good at all. just an opinion and all of us are entitled to one
  • - 1
 Just because you dont understand something doesnt mean it isnt there for a particular reason...That "dog bone" looking thing is keeping the rear triangle torsionally ridged and its shape is dictated by the small amount of room in that area at bottom out..
You 14 year old shit heads will bash things just because someone else did. f*cking annoying twerps.

GO RIDE YOUR BIKE!
  • + 3
 Putting everything reputation-wise aside, I still think it's ugly and awkward looking...(but not in a good way like a say, a Pole). I wonder how many will they ever sell!?
  • + 2
 Its a sweet looking bike! Too expensive, yeah probably but not unlike SC or Yeti.. I would own one, fudge yeah! Actually, i would rather have the shorter travel version.
  • + 3
 I have the same feeling about the new xt 11-46 cassette. Weird jump seems to be missing the sweet spot for my legs.
  • + 2
 As ugly as a lot of their old bikes are, I have to say that this looks pretty sweet, especially with the orange and black colorway.
  • + 1
 Can you ride an Orange and Black bike in Doyer-land, though? haha jk
  • + 4
 lol step aside kona stinky, an uglier bike has arrived
  • + 2
 $11000+ CAD for a bike with XT drivetrain and brakes on it? XT is great, don't get me wrong, I love mine, but if I'm spending $11000 on a bike it better be Eagle and/or XTR.
  • + 2
 Great looking bike and wish there was a 29er version. Good to see there's a great all-around bike out there. Great Job Ellsworth!!!
  • + 3
 The real question is who is gonna shell out $8,400 for anything Tony Ellsworth had a hand in.
  • + 4
 20yrs later still not digging what they do
  • + 1
 I often wondered how Ellsworth was able to avoid the Horst link patent from Specialized. Unless I'm wrong (which I may be) it certainly looks like a Horst link. I know that the patent has expired.
  • + 3
 Na. I could name 10 (cheaper) bikes that I'd rather ride. The Commencial that was reviewed in the next article was on 3k.
  • + 1
 The bicycle industry must take pride in taking somebody's head off when a bicycle is sold...drop that price down where a working man can afford it , sell 2 million more bikes...I don't get it.
  • + 3
 What happened to ICT man... I came here to see ICT!! And a beam the length of Golden Gate.
  • + 1
 Bla Bla Bla, this bike doesn't fit me, Bla Bla Bla, I dont like this review bla bla bla. I'ts as though most of you were waiting with your credit cards in your hands until this article was written.....fucking trolls...
  • + 4
 this bike is simply stunning
  • + 3
 Looks like a good bike. I really hope this helps put their company on the right track.
  • + 0
 I have this bike setup with 140 and love it! Never use the climb levers and still beat pr climbs compared to my old Ripley. Also the slx build which has great parts starts out at about 5,000 with such a custom bike I feel too much of this review was spent on the parts not a deep anaylsis of the frame.
  • + 3
 You're beating climbing PRs compared to your old Ripley 29er? I'm calling BS... or it's the fact that you might be in significantly better shape. Or your iPhone is broken.
  • + 0
 @stevemokan: www.strava.com/athletes/1191416
Got the bike two weeks ago, yeah I go faster compared to a dw link xc bike because im not bouncing all over the place and my tires are staying on the ground. If i was riding flowy trails the ripley would probably be faster.
  • + 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: If you're bouncing all over the place, then you had the suspension set up incorrectly.
  • + 1
 @stevemokan: hmm whats suspension setup? Seriously though i'm more comfortable with more travel and a stiffer rear. It's a fun bike I'm happy riding it and feel more in control so I ride faster.
  • + 2
 Wasnt Ellsworth bought by some bigger company recently? So this bike really has no ties to the bad rep that Ellsworth had for the last years?
  • + 4
 In the real world, I believe you are correct. In a world of alternative facts (read pb comment section) that either isn't correct or doesn't matter anyways...
  • + 1
 Wow, Ellsworth - now that's a name that hasn't been around for quite some time. Can't believe they're still going with the 4-bar linkage after disappearing what seems like decades!
  • + 3
 Haters gunna hate... I on the otherhand will be riding my bike. Looks good Ellsworth!
  • + 2
 you appear to be in a pleasant mood with no issue with Ellsworth...I'm guessing you never owned ONeil
  • + 2
 To Lutetium :: the people who buy them , are the people who have owned more than one Ford Raptor.
  • + 1
 its just like a raptor, even though it has fox shocks doesn't mean its meant to be jumped. www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKQdlXvbWSU
  • + 3
 Another note for 8700 and comes with st, I'd expect xtr or even xx1!
  • + 1
 Sooo maybe I missed it, and am still new to the mountain biking community, but what exactly is Brian lopes disliked by so man?
  • + 3
 for that price should be top end groupo not a 775 dollar part out
  • + 3
 Almost 10 grand..thats pretty insane!
  • + 4
 Nope.
  • + 3
 8700 . . . . . I'm all set
  • + 4
 No rear shock video?
  • - 1
 @codfather1234 put your money where your mouth is and buy this as your next bike. Ya didn't think so. So quit playing white Knight just because you are offended by other peoples criticism. Maybe you shouldn't be on the internet if that's how sensitive you are.
  • + 4
 Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of bed today. What are you talking about?
  • + 1
 @codfather1234: seems like a serial offender on PB mate - see this reply to someone from Nov '16: "i did read that part. my question about brake jack was directed more at people that already own the meta. because its not like the reviewers word is the be all and end all of opinions. if you find my question unbelieveable maybe you need to stop bein so sensitive. turning a simple innocent question into smug sarcastic replies.is this what the mtb community is about?"

Ironically, he seems to have a problem with sensitivity. Extra points for spelling though so it's not all bad...
  • + 1
 go have another coffee bro....
  • + 2
 sounds decent if i could afford it i would buy one of these.
  • + 1
 Curves where I didn't expect them! This bike looks fresh to me and would love a shot at riding it. Size M please... Smile
  • + 1
 Well Vital gave it 3/5 - said the shock tune is awful and it wallowed and bottomed out. They did like the colours though...
  • + 2
 so why does ellsworth have such a bad rep?
  • + 2
 niiiice, great to see Ellsworth back
  • + 2
 I'm not sure why you would get negative props for liking giving the company props....
+1 from me bro
  • + 1
 Maybe a good bike but for that price I'd rather buy a brand with some name recognition.
  • + 2
 8500 BUCKS AND SHIMANO XT ??? Fckin joke !!
  • + 3
 And aluminum bars, already cut down from 800.
  • + 1
 But you know what is easy to make fun of? A bike that's $9,000 (after tax) and weighs 30lbs....that's pathetic.
  • + 1
 What size was the test bike?
  • + 1
 @dirtyHal your dream machine has arrived!
  • + 1
 lol pinkbike
  • + 1
 Fiat of MTB
  • + 0
 Hi all, I just must say that this bike look awesome!
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