European Commission Announces Proposal For eMTBs to Require Third Party Insurance

May 24, 2018
by Alex Evans  
With potentially wide-ranging consequences on the emerging and ever-growing e-bike market, today the European Commission proposed that pedelec e-bikes (that enhance pedal input by the rider with an electric motor) will require third-party liability insurance, similar to motor vehicles.

The initiative is a blanket cover-all that puts e-bikes in the same category as motor vehicles, requiring them to have third-party insurance.

The European Cyclists' Federation, who are pro e-bike, said in a press release:

bigquotesThe European Commission (EC) has today released its proposal to amend the Motor Vehicle Insurance Directive (MID), which would mean that pedelec users without third-party liability insurance would be riding illegally.

“If today's proposal becomes a law, third party liability insurance will be required that would discourage millions of European citizens to use pedelec, undermine the efforts and investments of several member states and the European Union to promote sustainable mobility” – states Adam Bodor advocacy director of the European Cyclists` Federation.

The EC proposal clarifies the scope of the directive as to which vehicles are mandated to carry third party motor vehicle insurance. This clarification was necessary to avoid the confusion as to which vehicles, and on what geographical area (road, private land, etc.) would qualify for a vehicle coming under this directive. Unfortunately, the EC proposal published today includes even the (light) power assisted bicycles – pedelecs – under this directive.

In fact, in an explanatory introduction to the proposal, the European Commission claims that power-assisted bicycles should already currently have full motor vehicle insurance (not transport, bicycle, personal or household insurance but full motor vehicle insurance). With this text, the European Commission is trying to criminalize power-assisted bicycle users, almost all of whom have some kind of other insurance, and has effectively banned pedelec use without insurance usually reserved for motor vehicles.
European Cyclists' Federation

Kieran Page has been involved in a community eMTB project in Peille France with positive outcomes.

Although the European Commission's decision has yet to be passed into law, as and when it does it could mean that eMTBers will require insurance when out on the trails.

It also remains to be seen how The European Commission intends to police compulsory e-bike insurance – will e-bikes require number plates and licenses? Will we be seeing police officers on the trails at eMTB hotspots across Europe?

Posted In:
eMTB



190 Comments

  • 101 33
 So in a world where anyone can go and buy a road bike, go as fast as humanly possible on any road anywhere, cause as much damage as they like when they come unstuck on their uncontrollable, under braked, tiny handlebarred death machine and just walk off, if they can, but e-mountain bikers have to pay money to the insurance company stake holding friends of the politicians proposing this wank, just to have the right to travel literally half as fast out in the woods somewhere with only trees to hit. There is no justification for this, more blanket shit that f*cks the 95% to pacify the moron 5% and make money at the same time.

And most you will support this shit as well won't you, that is until they come for you too...
  • 11 4
 Well said!
  • 95 25
 I don't know how is it on the homeland of the British Empire, but in Sweden there is an easily noticeable difference between users of road bikes and E-bikes. But I can think of some cues that make me think that human psychology, physiology and laws of physics may be similar in both of our worlds. No human without basic fitness can take a road bike above 20km/h for prolongued period of time. Sustained 25km/h means you have been riding the bicycle abit more than just to work and back, thus you have a basic idea about bicycle handling, comparable with driving skill of someone who just got the license. You have developed basic reflexes, muscle memory to perform successful braking and turning.

This cannot be said about about someone who was riding a granny bike for most of his/ hers life, or has never really been riding a bicycle regularly. Many E-bikers in Sweden should not be allowed to ride faster than 15km/h. They have no fkng clue what they are doing when riding those bikes, like someone who can barely drive a car. They will sooner use a ring bell than handlebar and brake levers. To top that, traffic rules and green-leftie environmentalist bullshit creates a sense of entitlement among cyclists in my Town. They shit on everyone, drivers and pedestrians, they have no respect to pedestrians. I am more worried about kids walking onto a cycling path than road.

Finally we get the pseudo health aspect. If you are fat or crooked, you won't get better by riding E-bike. Pay to play, like every other motorsport does.

So I welcome this law with open arms.
  • 34 53
flag deadmeat25 (May 24, 2018 at 10:58) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: I congratulate you on managing to write so many words and get literally all of it wrong. You live in a world of your own creation Waki, that's good for you, and inconsequential for the rest of us. It's good thing you don't have legislative power, you would make rules in the same way you create your opinions, based on your feelings, not facts, you want to put the kibosh on things you don't like just so you can pat yourself on the back for it.
  • 28 14
 @deadmeat25: I like how you went Trump on me. Oh I did not comply with your Opinion (since you failed to provide any facts, yet said I have no facts to back up my thesis) Yeah, yeah great. If someone will be sending petition pro EU law and against European cycling Federation, I'll sign it, gladly, and maybe even spread the word. Today I got almost run over by 70 year old lady passing other old people #paytoplay #donthatethemamil
  • 18 8
 @WAKIdesigns:
>No human without basic fitness can take a road bike above 20km/h for prolongued period of time.

20km on road bike is easy for pretty much anyone
  • 14 12
 @Asmodai: if they try, unfit people don't try. Also please show me your Strava log from road ride. I guess you don't exceed 25km/h for too long periods of time, don't you? Or do you use "I make you feel better about yourself" computer?
  • 7 17
flag Asmodai (May 24, 2018 at 11:09) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: i dont have strava or a road bike but i used to do avarage of 24-26km/h (at the end of the road ride) on my dj hardtail with big chainring and 10s cassette

>Or do you use "I make you feel better about yourself" computer?

what?
  • 10 6
 @Asmodai: huh that is interesting, because strong people I follow rarely exceed 25 on road bike and pro roadies go around 30-33 on training. You got power man. On DJ HT... fk me
  • 5 1
 @Asmodai: Hacking on this is completely missing the point tho.
  • 2 16
flag Asmodai (May 24, 2018 at 11:16) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: i still do average of ~22 with 28 chainring on a trial bike and im way too fat with pretty bad stamina
20km/+ on road bike is breeze
  • 6 0
 well...... there was this one article about the sudden increase of road deaths in holland being elderly male E BIKERS...........
(I could post a lnk if I could be bothered to trawl about a months worth my face book posts but, fk that)
  • 9 8
 @WAKIdesigns: "Today I got almost run over by 70 year old lady passing other old people".

How f*cking slow were you going dude? That's why you think 20mph is fast...
  • 28 4
 Your country isn't even a part of Europe any more!
Bullshit aside... you really need to see this from a broader perspective.

I am a Canadian living in Germany. Mainland Europe is very far removed as far as culture (yep, even from merry old England) and thought process goes. I witness people on e-bikes daily, not only on trails but also on the street. They have ABSOLUTELY no idea what that boost gives them, and they ARE dangerous.

At a trail center where people are getting shuttled (or in this case e-shuttlin'), or where we're talking about people that actually have learned bike control, I completely agree that we shouldn't worry about it and that a measure like this is unnecessary. The problem here is that it's the nature of such an article to mention no user groups or existing problems (or problem groups) and the fact is, Europe is pretty f*cking big.

E-Bike mountain bikers have never bothered me.. sure, I wish they'd give me a tow and because I'm so fat I get a little jealous. The fact of the matter is that the majority (your personal majority doesn't count!) are unskilled (and usually helmetless!) people, who have little to no experience.
I can ride my trailbike flat out on pavement at around 25 km/h (28/10, don't care if yer faster, I'm a fatty). A comparison with a road bike is apples and oranges and also most skinny tired death machines are equipped with disc brakes and better shifting than ever before.

Fact is... this "movement" is dangerous for all user groups. Those who purchase E-bikes and those who are surrounded by them. I'm not trying to dismiss your argument, but try to see it from a different point of view.
  • 3 8
flag WAKIdesigns (May 24, 2018 at 11:25) (Below Threshold)
 @Asmodai: that's fascinating , I'd love to see your way of measuring it (especially on a trail bike), because I do average 23km/h on my roadie hybrid with 38t front. Have you noticed that I used words like "sustained", "prolongued period of time"? Because when a 50yr old male with a bit of a belly, steps on pedals in front of me, starting from a green light, I have a problem staying close to him until he reaches 25km/h and I have to step on it to pass him. Whatever suits your world view man. I see those things every single week day. Living in Poland, you don't
  • 1 5
flag Asmodai (May 24, 2018 at 11:28) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns:
im using samsung gps app + gps watch
  • 4 6
 @ssteve: I've never been against the idea of a compulsory cycling proficiency test, i am against this though.
  • 10 1
 @ssteve: Has hit the nail on the head. Some dickhead who can't ride a bike for shit, decides to start commuting on a e-bike. Next thing Mr Dickhead impales a padestrian with a heavy bike travelling faster than he can handle. Padestrian wants a compo pay out.
  • 4 0
 @ssteve: still in the EU atm untill that deal is done an signed. Which is very likely never to be agreed on....
  • 13 1
 Having seen a dude on an e-bike wearing no helmet speed past kids on balance bikes at ~40km/h on a shared pedestrian/bicycle path that was about 1,5 meters wide... I'd say that some sort of a regulatory mechanism is long overdue. Compulsory insurance is far from a perfect solution, but it's something.
  • 4 0
 @Skinnyman @ssteve: agreed. This law would be a great idea as many/most ebikes users are actually using their ebikes in the streets to commute as if it was a moped without the mandatory helmet, without licence, without mandatory insurance, and with which you "dont need" to respect traffic laws
  • 2 0
 @mwart: is the same thing if you run over somebody with your non electric bike. That´s why it is not bad idea to have an insurance for biking in general,if you ride urban areas is a must for me. My home insurance cover me ridding,no extra payments. Last year I broke a glass door with a little stone thrown by my road bike,it was the door of a shop near to my house and my insurance pay it any question.
  • 4 3
 @WAKIdesigns: My heart rate monitor disagrees with your last opinion. Singletrack+emtb(class I pedelec) = consistent 160-180 of incredible fun.
  • 4 2
 @Aaronblank: I am commenting solely on careless and/or reckless (mis)use of these on cycling paths in cities. Not to mention the fkng cargo bikes. And then you have the hacked ones. I want them to feel responsible for their actions. Right now they just think they ride a baby toy, doing a service to the planet and politicians seem to be doing everything to support this delusion. So is the legal system, giving absolute priority to cyclists, no matter if cycling path goes through pedestrian crossing or not. When I cross the street a car will let me through 9/10 times, situation is completely opposite in case of a bicycle, even next to a school or kindergarden. They will even shout at you for being a bad parent for trying to pass while they are riding along. It’s about changing perception and acknowledging that you may hurt yourself and others. That cyclist is not a saint cow above everyone else. 25 km/h is a lot of kinetic energy.
  • 4 1
 @WAKIdesigns: , 100% of me agrees with 99% of your stand point on this view.BUT the one thing you got majorly wrong unless you are a fatty on a really shite road bike is the speeds, my wife who road rides a few times a year does 23kmh on 100mile rides, and about 26kmh on 30milers, i train like bastard, but for enduro racing and certainly aint no roadie, but my 30 mile road rides are 38kmh....... and my sprint sessions on the flat at minute intervals see me hitting 60+kmh........ your figures are way way out....almost a ratio of 1.6 out.... as in you got KMh mixed up with Mph. trained roadies in my neck of the woods average 40-42kmh for decent length rides and tour level riders average 48-50kmh...i know coz i've had my ass thoroughly wooped by some returning domestiques to the local road club. so yeah i am on your side but you need to re address your figures...and when you do you'll realise that @deadmeat25 actually has a point..... i really can't see fat fuKKKs on wanky ebikes hitting above 25kmh offroad. or even on road for that matter.
  • 1 5
flag WAKIdesigns (May 24, 2018 at 13:06) (Below Threshold)
 @forkbrayker: then I may be a road God without knowing it, bcause when I step on it on flat, Strava tells me 28km/h for like 5km and a pro roadie from my family doing Giro now says he does 30-33 on his training... seems to be in tune with my numbers. I also see exactly when ebike in front of me cuts the assist and I can’ ride much faster for prolongued period of time.
  • 7 0
 this whole argument is toss. The insurance is toss. Not taking sides but its foolary like this that caused Brexit.
So in London recently, there was a high profile national news saga about a road cyclist who killed a pedestrian. Actually he was a commuter on a single brake time trial bike-but regardless, he was riding fast and could not stop.
So....if you have to have insurance for an ebike, why not a road bike...and then why not me on an mtb on shared trails....this is all too ‘Daily Mail’ for me. It has ‘precident’ written all over it.
Oh and as an aside, for a fact, the UK police wont be enforcing this. I cant see ebikes on any police priority list. You dont even see police where I live any more. So dont think that this will be enforced as it might be in the US.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I totally agree, I have heard that in some countries they want to assimilate e-bikes with 50cc motor bike. So that mean to have a valid driving license.
  • 1 0
 Firstly, @deadmeat25: I'm pretty sure the insurance issue will only apply to vehicles being used on public roads. So not MTB off-roading.

Secondly, @ssteve: The UK will still be in Europe, even after it leaves the European Union... That's just being pedantic though.
  • 3 0
 @wakidesigns if your struggling to do 25 on a road bike then I hope you are riding some BIG hills. Most 1st time riders sit around 25 on a flatish ride.

Also as much as I don't like any type of mandatory insurance. I think it is a good idea for every cyclist to have some cover E-bike or not. A £35 a year British cycling member ship is hardly going to stop someone riding. In saying that when I am back home in NZ I won't have insurance as NZ has a much better health and accident system than anywhere else making it unnecessary.
  • 1 0
 @deadmeat25: Your username is almost as tautologic as mine.
  • 1 0
 @excavator666: that would make sense, riding an ebike offroad and riding one in an urban environment are two totally different things. When I first started reading about this I thought what a load of tosh but I can see the argument for insurance for urban riding. It could then also be argued all bikes should be included.
  • 2 0
 @dhridernz: I don’t want people to stop riding, I want people to start realizing that riding a bike through town is not a harmless, innocent child play. They cause accidents and they should pay for being covered for it. Someone has to pay, why does it all have to come from my taxes? A person who does not realize that clueless rider has a higher chance of crashing on E-bike than any other bike (including road bike) has no idea what he is talking about, hasn’t been much in tight bike traffic, hasn’t seen different people on different bikes in action.

The road bike argument is idiotic. It points at reckless riding, not at use of road bikes. And reckless riding in E-bike case is an a*shole doing 40+ on hacked bike on a crowded bike path and i’ve seen more than one.
  • 5 0
 @john260164: it is about accidents, someone has to pay for the consequences. How many times a day a cyclist rides into a car out of his own fault? The driver is virtually always to blame. At least in Sweden. The dirty planet killer in a tank and the fallen hero. And if it’s a woman cyclist crashing? Oh my gawd... The situation is never clear and the driver often drives away to spend his cash on repair if he didn’t buy the full insurance for his vehicle.

Why e-bikes not all bikes? You look at it for what it is today, but in few years there will be more and more e-bikes that no longer look like granny bikes with giant hubs and weird water bottles. They will be covered up from elements with canopies with cargo compartments, possibly two seaters, 40-60kg things. That’s a lot of kinetic energy when it goes at 25km/h. The development of cargo bikes points this way. There are more and more velopeds in my town already. The only reason lightweight motorized two wheelers have pedals is avoiding registration and insurance. The line has to be drawn at some point. The way we move ourselves evolves, machines evolve, our bodies stay as fragile and number of collisions will just grow.
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: We're out in March 2019 whether that deal is signed or not, unfortunately. If we don't get anything in place by then we just bomb out as per A50.
  • 4 2
 @WAKIdesigns: please stop using 25kph as a figure. ITS NOT FAST. 25kph is only a touch over 15mph. . 15mph is fairly fast in tight trees off road, but it's tortoise pace on an open tarmac road and gives you a whole 7m to react per second of realisation. Only folk I know riding at that pace is you and the octogenarian at the end of my street .

Good speed is 20mph - 32kph
impressive is 25mph - 40kph
tour level is 30mph - 48kph
super short sprints are 40mph - 64kph

If the speed issue is integral to your argument then use the speeds that 80% of roadies do please and not this dawdling along admiring the tulips speed that you are talking about
  • 1 3
 @forkbrayker: ok, please ride at 25mk/h into a car. Can I get pictures?
  • 1 0
 I've never ridden a road race bike, let alone in traffic. The geometry, speed combined with the limited view around in that hunched position scare me a little. Because I know I'll stomp these pedals hard when I get the hang of it. When on the road I'm either on a (heavily modified) Batavus Blockbuster (to carry and/or tow kids, groceries or other stuff) or on my lighter Koga Citylite when I ride to work. These may not be common brands over here. Both are owned by Accell who also own Lapierre and Haibike. Batavus actually started the B1 brand that may (or should be) known over here. Both just basic bikes with hub dynamo, Nexus 7/8sp geared hubs, racks etc. The Batavus must be well over 30kg. I recently built a new rear wheel for it with steel rim and 2.5mm spokes, was about 3kg without tire. I don't have a bicycle computer but I sometimes log my rides (using a Suunto watch with gps). Speeds on the Batavus (with cargo/kids) are typically between 20 and 25km/h, on the Koga typically between 25 and 30km/h. That's not training or racing, this is just going places. So yeah, on the Batavus people on e-bikes overtake me. When I'm on the Koga, I overtake them. But these are not dangerous or scary differences in speed. If I crash riding my own bike at 25km/h, it would be just as painful as if I'd crash riding an e-bike at 25km/h. If I ride my 30kg Batavus into someone, it would cause just as much injury as if I'd ride a 30kg e-bike into someone at the same speed.

@nojzilla : Yes you're absolutely correct about that one. There is indeed a strong increase of older cyclists getting killed in e-bike crashes. It therefore actually strikes me how there seem to be quite a few on pinkbike who claim e-bikes should be banned from trails except for the elderly, disabled etc. If transition was relatively short after getting disabled etc I'd say it wouldn't cause so much trouble. The thing with the relatively recent introduction of e-bikes (as with any relatively new means of mobility, really) is that it suddenly enforces people to do something they haven't been doing for a long time and who may no longer have the reflexes, judgement and skills to keep up with that. Elderly people may have ridden their bikes at 15km/h or something and suddenly go twice as fast. It is a tricky topic indeed, right up there whether older people should drive a car. Losing skill, strength and abilities must be a frustrating experience. I understand that they're going to grab the means that gives them some mobility to maintain their social circle and independence. So I'm not comfortable telling them that they shouldn't. What they should be made more aware of are the risks. From then on it is just like us mountainbikers, up to them to accept the risk and do it or leave it. Silly thing is of course, if a distance is too long, the groceries are too heavy to walk or ride a regular bike, they'd either take public transport or the car. Which implies more sitting, more rapid loss of abilities. Riding a bike with a small nudge from the motor would actually be a good way to retain some mobility and keep those joints, heart and lungs going.

Said that, most people I see riding these bikes aren't the elderly. People just need to get to work, get the kids to school etc. People need to be on time but don't like to build in a big buffer in case there is that strong headwind or whatever. An e-bike gives them that reliabilty. 25km/h, they can count on it. Good stuff for the working class, more reliable than a car that can get stuck in a traffic jam. "reason" tells me I'd be better off getting one too. Quite simply because I don't believe the health advantage of my unassisted bike is so much bigger than it would be on one with a motor. Quite simply because long steady seated pedaling in Z3 isn't all that great. This is also the main reason why pretty much all my mountainbike riding is standing up, there is no point doing any more work in that zone. So yeah, if a motor would help me get through that more quickly/easily I'd have more left in the legs to go for another more explosive blast in the evening. Now I'm not going to get one quite simply because I think they're too expensive and I've got decent bikes already. But "reason" actually tells me that healthy people with a proper training plan are actually better off with an e-bike. To actually have some proper explosive days without blowing half their energy on the endurance stuff.
  • 1 2
 @vinay: it has nothing to do with health, it’s a one big bullcrap. Just like it has nothing to do with saving environment
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: What e-bikes allow is people to ride something that would otherwise be too heavy on a regular bike so for which they'd otherwise pick a car. Health and environment aside, older places in Europe quite simply don't have the capacity to deal with that many cars on the streets and infrastructure for cars and public transport are relatively expensive. What they can do now is sacrifice a car lane and make the bicycle lanes extra wide and separate from the cars. It increases the capacity of the infrastructure (in terms of people transported) massively for relatively cheap. I think the city of Utrecht here had found out that if everyone would quit cycling and rely or car or public transportation, they'd need something like 20 billion euros to make that work. And it wouldn't make the city any prettier.
  • 2 1
 @vinay: I didn’t write anywhere that ebikes are bad, evil whatever, what I mean is that salad days of bicycle traffic in cycling cities are over. It’s time to take responsibility for using them. If you crash into my car because you were holding a phone in your hand, I won’t care if you are hurt or not. I want you to pay for fixing my car. Whether you do it or your insurance company do it I don’t care. This is currently not the case. A damage done by a cyclist can easily go into 800€ since one hit can fk up two elements of car body at once. And you can be well sure that this is exactly why this bill is coming up. I genuinely hate careless people and at least in Sweden, they are the most careless and disrespectful users of traffic with highest probability of injuring pedestrians.
  • 1 0
 @GrandMasterOrge: not necessarily, commons.an still vote no brexit if the 'deal' is gonna be economic suicide.
  • 1 0
 Thing that most people seem to be missing, is that wether on or off road. It's the MOTOR aspect that legally requires Insurance..... This is just Ebikes possibly being brought into line with other forms of motorised transport, As they should be
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: My point was that the distinction between an e-bike and an unassisted bike doesn't make sense here. If I ride my 30kg bike into your door at 25km/h, it is going to cause just as much damage as if I'd get a 30kg e-bike and hit your door at the same speed. And if it were through my fault, I'd have to cough up. But my personal insurance already caters for that, no need to worry about what bike it'd be on.

As for mentality, it may be different in Sweden, I don't know. I think mentality here is fine. Nearly every adult has a driving licence and everyone rides bikes in traffic, so we understand each others point of view. Teens and drunken students on bikes may be the most tricky ones as they may not seen traffic from behind a low windscreen but are already so old and fearless to not worry too much about cars knowing that the drivers worry for them. But that's a small subgroup. If a truck needs to do a difficult move, you give him space and gestures whether everything is clear. If you're driving a car in the city, you accept that you're the slower one and should keep the bicycle lane clear. Works fine most of the time. Now of course we do have proper room for bicycles here to actually ride at a proper speed. For instance in Germany I see two way bicycle lanes combined with a footpath that may be 120cm wide in total. No way you're going to get away riding 25km/h over there! To get an idea of what a bicycle lane is here, get to duckduckgo and type "bicycle lane holland !im". Unless it is really busy, you can easily ride at 25km/h and have a good view on what's around you, have room to brake in time etc. What doesn't work is getting on a road racers to only look ahead or down or even worse, ride with your road racing buddies in a "fan" taking the full width of the road. But really someone on an e-bike, upright, at 25km/h. Shouldn't be an issue.
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: No, they're just fun and practical Waki.
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: No mate, we have triggered A50 which started a 2 year countdown until we are out, regardless of agreeing a deal. If the commons vote no brexit we would then have to ask the EU about revoking A50, they could agree but would not be obliged to, there is nothing Britain on it's own can do to change that. As it stands, March 2019 we are either hard out or out with some sort of deal.
  • 1 2
 And this bullshit idea my friend,is exactly why the uk voted to get out of the E.U. Its probably just some politician with a bung off an insurance lobby group earning his pension fund.
  • 1 0
 @scoot34: only one third of the country voted to leave, in a legally non bhindi g referendum. The government made the decision to leave on its own. Regardless of the referendum result
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: ..... lol fair point well put. But having done it twice coz I was being a careless dick looking at my gears. Once into a person and once into a car that decided to do a U-turn. The worst that happened was I buckled my wheel, twisted my bars and hurt my knee with the car. And seriously pissed off the person I rode into. To be fair that was luck nobody got hurt (hurt ,as in Ooft that was sore..... as opposed to getting an ambulance out) Having hit scores of trees at 25kph on the mtb over the past 25yrs. I can tell you they hurt but I ain't broke anything yet. 15mph / 25kph is not fast enough to cause serious damage and plenty slow enough to deal with surprise events . Considering the DETR states the figure at less than 5% chance of death if a car hits a pedestrian at 32kph. A soft bodied cyclist travelling at 25kph hitting a pedestrian is highly unlikely to cause death. Sure it could and does happen. ... and....... I'm bored now trying to convince you 15mph is NOT FAST ! Slater's.
  • 1 0
 @deadmeat25 road bikes ride on the road... with veichles going much much faster than them.
E beiks ride on the trails, with hickers , bicycles and occasional horses going low speed.

Moreover they are ridden by people with poor skills and judgment.

E beiks should have insurance and they will. As they are a motorozed veichle.
Just hope they will not extend it to mtb as well.
  • 1 0
 @forkbrayker: Regardless of whether my numbers are off or not, I am tired of explaining you that in the city among other cyclists with hard surfaces like asphalt, concrete and metal, 15mph is FAST. If you are on a road ride everything is more predictable, not to mention that when you ride in the woods you are the only one to blame. You are talking like a MX dude laughing at a MTBer when he says he rides this and this fast and sends this "big" jumps. Go commute a bit in Holland, Germany or Danmark and come back to me. I recommend Copenhagen in particular. Also I wasn't talking about fatal accidents in the first place rather broken bones and concussions. That often takes you out of your work for a month or more, not to mention being another child your wife must handle - no big deal aye? I am tired of explaining you this as well.

Anyhoo, have a great weekend.
  • 1 0
 @forkbrayker: 25kph is fast enough to kill you if you hit a tree and you don't wear a helmet. Obviously in most case you just get bruises and minor scratches, because it all depends on how you crash and which body part hits first. Boxers get concussions even in lightweight categories, so you can imagine what a sidewalk, a car, a wall or a tree hit at 25kph can do...
  • 1 0
 The question isn't how heavily you can get injured when crashing at 25km/h. The question is, does it matter whether the bike has pedal assist or not when traveling with the same weight at the same speed? I don't see how. And yes again, this is a speed we can easily reach unassisted when commuting. I do this everyday, straight through the center of Amsterdam. Sure you may not ride every crossing or tiny alley at that speed. But nor should you drive 50km/h in your car everywhere. But for the majority of a commute, 25km/h is doable. And obviously, this is Amsterdam. Most places are less busy than this.
  • 1 1
 @RedRedRe:

Troll.

Blanket statement about the types of people that buy ebikes that is completely wrong. E bikes are expensive, predominantly experienced riders buy them. I'm getting one, Sam Pilgrim rides one, everyone i've seen on one is an experienced rider, you're talking utter garbage.

E bikes off road are only faster uphill, getting back up the hill is what they are for, end of. What happens if YOU hit a hiker whilst out on the trail doing 40mph downhill on your unassisted bike? They die but it's fine because you're not on an e bike? You clueless f*ckwit, are you and Waki related?

E bikes shouldn't require insurance because they are still a bicycle, but if they do i hope they DO extend it to all bicycles, because the rider should be just as accountable when an accident happens, it doesn't matter what type of bike you are on, it's the rider that would be at fault, not the bike.

People like you, those with a complete inability to think things through properly, are the ruination of everything.
  • 2 0
 Alright, first of all never forget Pinkbike has the unique ability to pull stuff out of context and turn it into another masterpiece of bullshit. Here's a link to the proposal:
ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/com-2018-336_en#initiative-details
It applies to motorized vehicles in traffic. It doesn't apply to mountainbike trails. So whatever impact you assume these have on trails and whether these should be insured, you can have your thoughts about that but it doesn't quite fit here. Luckily there have been enough PB articles where you can moan about just that. So if you feel like, go there and have a blast. Obviously the PB suggestion about police on the trails doesn't make sense either, but again that's Pinkbike.

Due to the recent availability of relatively compact and powerful rechargeable batteries, we're seeing more means of electrical (assisted) vehicles on the road. Segways, motorized skateboards etc. And bicycles with pedal assist indeed. So the proposal here implies that these vehicles need insurance to be on the road. Not so much to discourage their use, but just to compensate the victim if they happen to cause an accident and the rider isn't able to cough up. Obviously the EU is aware that this may discourage people who (intend to) replace their daily car drive to work by an e-bike ride. Cities have constantly been investing in improving bicycle safety (assisted or not) so chasing these people back into their cars would be a setback. Countries do have the possibility to bear the costs of a potential claim in case the rider isn't able to do that. I quote:


As part of the public consultation various associations representing the electric bike industry argued that requiring third party liability insurance could undermine the uptake of ebikes. But the current Directive already provides 37 Member States with the power to exempt them from motor third party liability insurance. If Member States were to exempt them in this way, the national guarantee funds would bear the costs of reimbursing victims of accidents caused by these new types of vehicles.


Which actually is a likely scenario. As mentioned, most people riding these bikes typically use these to get to work etc. So they have a job, hence money if they really need to pay. Or they already have voluntary insurance. The few claims a country would have to pay are negligible compared to the savings on infrastructure if you don't need to accommodate for all these extra cars or provide public transport. Most accidents with these bikes however are with elderly who suddenly jump on one and with the judgement based on riding at 15km/h, suddenly travel at 25km/h. Mostly they injure themselves, so that wouldn't be something covered under such a insurance anyway (they've got health insurance for that).

And yes this exempt would be limited to regular e-bikes (up to 25km/h assist) and not include Segways etc. Quite simply because these officially don't have a place in traffic. It is probably different in the US and Canada. Here in Europe (or at least in The Netherlands and probably also in Denmark, Germany etc) we have three types of traffic, each with their own place and rules. There's motors, cars etc. Then there are bicycles defined as vehicles with at least two wheels, not powered etc. Unpowered vehicles which do not fit their definition of a bicycle automatically end up in the pedestrian category. Because an unassisted bicycle can usually be pedaled (by a regular, non athletic person) between 15km/h and 25km/h or so, it has been decided that mopeds up to 25km/h and bicycles with pedal assist up to 25km/h fit in there just fine. Other powered stuff that doesn't qualify (Segway etc) ends up on the sidewalk if speed is walking pace (and is qualified as toy) or is simply illegal. And of course the other way around, people who travel on unpowered vehicles but feel their speed is more suited to the bicycle lane (in-line skates, longboards etc) are usually condoned over there. though officially they still belong on the sidewalk.

And this is where this whole discussion started. Even though road racing bicycles officially qualify as bicycle, their speed and limited control don't belong on the bicycle lane in dense traffic. Whereas most modern e-bikes for commuting (limited to 25km/h assist) are equipped with powerful brakes and an upright and controllable geometry (making them more than fit to engage in dense traffic along with regular bicycles), race bikes are designed for a race situation, to sacrifice control and circumferential view for speed and efficiency. So even though I understand the EU needs to draw a line somewhere, the way it was drawn is odd and ineffective. Sure you can injure someone when crashing into them at 25km/h. That's why we don't ride bicycles on the sidewalk! I can injure someone just as badly when riding inline skates at that pace though. Or simply taking a sprint (running, though I'd most likely be tackled anyway because someone would think I must surely have stolen something). And at the end of the day, you can't prevent everything nor should you insure for everything. 25km/h is a speed a decent runner should be able to sprint, especially when going down a hill. If he slides out or get's tackled by a root or something, he'll fall. And it is going to hurt. And he might get injured. Climbing equipment in playgrounds is designed so that kids are not likely to hang themselves (having their head stuck into something when they loose balance) or getting a finger or limb stuck somewhere. And there is a more or less safe fall zone. It can still hurt if they fall all the way and they can get injured. It is acceptable really. There is a point where they need to develop that judgement. Sorry, you'll never have your perfect nanny state.
  • 63 11
 You can't complain about being treated like a motorbiker if there is a motor on your bike.
  • 2 1
 Hard to argue with that. 'But i fell going downhill, the motor was turned off at the time'...let the rocky mountain bikes owners, khmm lawyers, answer that.
  • 9 5
 This isn't about "being treated as" whatever. It is about taxes and/or money for the insurance companies (read: political buddies). The motor is just an excuse. Next thing they will introduce mandatory registration for normal bikes (this cannot be bad right?), and few years down the road they will introduce mandatory insurance. They got you on the list anyway.

Once they introduce this insurance on e-bikes it will be next to impossible to get rid of it later. They got their foot in the door and pray that there is no next step.
  • 7 3
 Exactly, most Pinkbike members agree ebikes are more like scooters than unassisted bikes so why shouldn’t they be treated more like scooters?
  • 7 11
flag Asmodai (May 24, 2018 at 12:09) (Below Threshold)
 @StevieJB: because they are not
  • 3 1
 You're right, pacemakes and other internal devices make people cyborgs and robots. They shouldn't have rights either!
  • 2 0
 Especially as a lot are going out and buying 700w+ convertions off the Internet and simply not giving a shit that the UK legal limit for public use (without essentially being a motorcycle) is 250w.
  • 25 5
 Hope this won't happen because cycling is one of only vehicles that isn't touched by big corporations and if eMTBs or any e-bikes require some sort of insurance or licence it will be much easier for lobbys to put them on other bicycles. So as much hate eMTBs produce hope this won't happen. Fight for freedom.
  • 5 2
 This...
  • 2 5
 is this thing even serious ?? ebikes are super heavy and so, slower than normal bikes ...
  • 3 3
 vid1998 wishful thinking, presenting how the world could work in the best case scenario. You have to see it for what it is and it is nothing more but green-leftie idealism. People buy e-bikes because it is easier to ride them, they don't get sweaty on the way to work/ meetings. It is a prevailing reason among most people I hear talking about buying one. It's about convenience, not health or environment, and in both cases it's like putting down fire on gas station by pissing on it. It's about safety on cycling paths, I want people riding these to be liable since they are much more likely to cause accidents.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I agree with you that many e-bike users don't know how to ride them safely and that some form of law should be made but this doesn't speak about licencing bikes or having to have some sort of licence to ride it only says that you'll require insurance. Insurance are under banks or insurance companies who don't care at all about human safety, eMTBs, normal MTBs or bicycles in general but only care about money. They smell money in bicycle industry where the average price is increasing every year. #fightforfreedom
  • 2 1
 There are a few corpos in a cycling world with yearly revenues around 1 billion USD or more. Lobbying is already happening in MTB as well - in Austria you can't ride your bike on a forest paths because of an alleged bikepark lobby www.imba-europe.org/news/access-legal-biking-campaign-austria-leads-discussion-vienna-parliament
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: In a global view cycling industry is a small business compared to say automotive industry (it's actually smaller than BMW alone) or banks and insurance groups. I stand behind the MTB societies fighting for legalisation as in Slovenia we have problems with it but I'm not talking about lobbying inside the cycling industry itself but about lobbying from figures outside it like insurance groups who want their own share from cycling without spending any money investing in it. They have the power to pressure on the very "democratical" EU government and force them selves into biking with obligatory insurance.
  • 1 0
 @vid1998: How global is "global view"? Automotive industry is nothing compared to the vastness of space. A huge segment of e-bike motors market is owned by Bosch, which happens to be a supplier of choice for lots of components for BMWs. Bosch is quite a corpo, mind you. My point being: if it looks like a corpo and behaves like a corpo, then it's a corpo. Insurance corpos want a piece of cake just like Specialized wants it. So you're okay with bikeparks lobbying against use of bikes outside bikeparks?
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: I'm not ok with bikeparks lobbying against use in other areas I am against insurance groups taking a share in cycling without cycling having benefits of it. If an insurance group would lobby for legalisation of MTBs in general and would support EU or national organizations with developing trails, camps etc. I would be more ok with obligatory insurance because the money coming to them would also finance cycling. A bicycle manufacturer has a harder job at funding organizations because they already make bikes which are fundamental so they contribute to the sport itself. But if a company or companies force an obligatory form of payment for usage of any sort of a hobby or sport and doesn't give anything in return for that payment I understand as theft (taxes aren't far from this but you get healthcare in return, taxes fund things necessary for a country like highways...).
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: Global means around the globe, so in terms of Earth.
  • 1 0
 @vid1998: Let's get the most important thing out of the way: how do you know insurance corpos lobbied this proposal? Besides that, insurance does provide a benefit: payout in case something happened.
  • 2 1
 @Skinnyman: How the hell else have insurance companies got this gig? This is not much better than the pharmas getting people hooked on anti-anxiety drugs.
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: "How the hell else" is not a meaningful argument.
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: Who has profit out of it? Insurance companies besides various political reasons. Also that payout comes at a cost of an increased fee (when you have accumulated bonuses) so it's not a real benefit.
  • 1 0
 @vid1998: Once again: Bosch is also a corporation. There are also way more political reasons against the proposal.
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: I can't understand how could Bosch profit from their e-bike devision if this law is accepted as ebike sales would decrease because people would't want to pay extra. But just to clarify are you against this law or for it?
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: True. It is essentially a conspiracy theory. But governments make laws and insurers make money. In what direction are these currencies moving? But you know, they're only protecting us eh.
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: And also I am only against the part involving e-bikes otherwise I support an obligatory insurance for cars, motorbikes but from this I don't know in what form do they want to implement this insurance.
  • 2 0
 @vid1998: What I'm on about is that Bosch is also a corporation and it profits from current uninhibited sales of ebikes. I have reasons to believe that they might have someone lobbying their interests in EU parliament as well. So a corpo would profit either way - be it insurers or electric motor manufacturers, and there will always be someone blaming corpolobbying no matter what decision is taken.

I am for some kind of a law that would make e-bike owners more conscious of possible consequences of an accident. I would also make them pay 50% more at bikeparks if I could :-D
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: The best way IMO to make e-bike riders more conscious is to make an obligatory test to confirm they're skills. Unfortunately not only e-bike riders but also quite a lot of others would need such a thing as they are dangerous mostly for others.
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: I just don't understand how you are constructing this idea that e-bikers will DEFINITELY be responsible for more accidents that those on regular bikes??

1. They will always be in the minority, on or off road.

2. The novice cyclists, those most prone to mistakes, will be the least likely to pay e-bike money for a bike.

3. Experienced cyclist who flout the rules and cause problems on the road are already very much here, usually wearing lycra and have no brakes.

Those statements are the truth as most people know it, your statement about making e-bikers SPECIFICALLY liable is a wild shot in the dark at people and a problem you've never actually encountered, and it seems you just haven't thought it through properly, what good would this actually do that applying the same legislation to all cyclists wouldn't do just as well? Or badly? Would you be 'for' that too? Or shall we try and resist the ever tightening noose of legislation on EVERYTHING?
  • 1 0
 @vid1998: Tests don't make anyone more conscious, only simple financial responsibility.
  • 1 0
 @deadmeat25: I am constructing my ideas based on my personal observations around Europe.

1) ~25% of bikes I see on my commute are e-bikes and I feel like soon they will not be a minority.
2) I only see total noobs and old people on ebikes, with 100% of their weight on the saddle, with no helmet etc.
3) Not the case here as well.

We obviously live in two different environments. Hence I would remind you that the article is about a proposal and not a concrete law. E-bikes are motorized vehicles and should be treated like motorized vehicles. I have thoroughly thought it through after seeing firsthand how dangerous people on ebikes are on average. Is extrapolation your hobby? Discussing legislation on everything is pointless.
  • 1 0
 @Skinnyman: those opinions come from people who have no experience with cycling traffic of German/ Dutch/ Scandinavian magnitudes. They are also rather unlikely to have a clue what sort of abominations roll on our cycling paths already and those things are treated as bicycles by the legal system.

For those of you who would like to learn something about the future:
velove.se
solarbike.com.au/electric-christiania-cargo-bike-february-2017
electricbikereview.com/virtue-cycles/pedalist
bikerumor.com/2017/02/17/podride-wild-enclosed-3-4-wheeled-e-bike-looks-like-micro-car
paradoxproductions.site/enclosed-bicycle-car
greenash.net.au/thoughts/2005/04/in-search-of-an-all-weather-bike
velomobilemedia.com/velomobile.htm

I have observed nearly every single one of these in Gothenburg. If anyone watches that and thinks there is no problem coming from closing your eyes and ears shouting lalaalalallala! and putting it on MAMILs then think twice. Killing yourself is always an option
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Even if the person has not seen the ebike traffic here, claiming that every corpo in the bicycle business is the best corpo and everyone else is evil and has a lobby because MY hobby is the best is counterproductive. Future is looking weird and creepy.
  • 7 0
 Reading through the comments here there are a lot of really bitter people who have clearly never spent any time riding a decent eMtb at all.
I'm just back from a 3hr eMtb ride. I basically rode the equivalent distance/height of a Scottish Enduro event. (23miles and 5000ft) after work for the fourth time this week and I'll probably do a similar ride again tomorrow I'd bet a lot of the eBike haters here don't even ride that sort of distance/elevation once a month.
Before I had an eMtb I used to ride over 100miles most weeks (mixture of road/mtb and a little BMX). I still love riding my roadbike and normal mtbs but ride them a lot less now because the ratio of climbing to descending just doesn't seem so worth it anymore.
anti-cycling twats have been trying to tax cyclists for ever. Any dumbasses cyclist who agrees with this is more naive than I can even comprehend.
  • 2 0
 you're spot on there Gary.
  • 3 0
 It's not even just naivety that's the problem, half of them are just people who want to piss on other peoples parade because they get satisfaction out of it, it's a mental condition that presents itself on every forum of every sport or pastime imaginable, hive mindlessness.
  • 9 1
 This is the thin edge of the wedge. Once it is implemented in law i will not take long to extend it to ALL bycycles ! Ignore the ebike bias they are voming after cyclists.
  • 8 1
 I agree with everything except the spelling.
  • 6 0
 I don't like eBikes, but the next buerocratic nonsense will be a mandatory 3rd Party insurance for any bicycle (like they had önce in the Netherlands).

BTW most people do NOT have any private insurance....
  • 2 0
 Agree most don’t but anyone with half a brain that buys from chain reaction and is from the uk should already have third party cover with their British Cycling membership.
  • 4 0
 @StevieJB: British Cycling are a bunch of crooks that only really care about roadie's.
  • 2 0
 @deli-hustler: How so? I know a good few people who have joined just because they have gone for a vitus Escarpe and BC membership has instantly put £150 back in their pocket?
  • 5 0
 f*ck the pencil pushing euros and f*ck all you E-bike haters,I'm off to ride my bike (E-bike) or maybe my motorbike , they are not the same,one does 16mph unless i am going downhill the other will do 130mph.
  • 1 1
 Are you saying that no British EU civil servants will have approved of this or contributed to bringing this in?
  • 1 0
 so far, your comment is the one which has made me laugh the most. Spot on
  • 4 0
 I think some people on here are getting ebikes confused with actually dangerous devices, such as cars or AK47s. Sometimes I can literally go outside for minutes at a time before the fear of being mown down at 15mph (or whatever it is) forces me back inside...
I bet you lot who live in fear of incompetent e-cyclists are fun on the trails, what do you do when it starts to go downhill, get off and walk?
  • 8 1
 ebikes today, all bikes tommorow....
  • 3 0
 it’s not a law. You can give your feedback here

ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/com-2018-336_en

I advise getting as stoned as possible and writing reels of nonsense, or just saying applying off-road legislation would be near impossible so forget that bit.

I don’t have an ebike, been on one that had a motorbike rear wheel and boxer front, to be fair it was a beast of a thing, not my type of thing at all but kind of heavy enough for insurance ! but I’m less keen on insurance companies
  • 3 0
 What's with that picture at the end of the article ??? Could you do any worse if you wanted to advertise the fact eMtbikes are cool and a real sport and this law shouldn't pass ?? Fat middle aged dudes in lycra on emtbikes that look more like MX mtotorbikes than actual bikes. LOL
  • 1 0
 A picture Paints a thousand words. E-gimps
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns I agree. I know the moto industry is hungry for the e-Bike $lice of pie, EU found out that those electric biketanks are a good way to squeeze some more $ from people. That’s ok with me because the owners are usually unskilled and dangerous. Quite alot of them unlock the speed limit from 25 km/h to whatever the bike can do. Ebikes are heavy, ridden by people with slim to none reflex and fitness. Imagine a 260 pound rider-bike combo with a baby biking skills riding 25-35 km/h between people daily, summer, traffic, tourists, people returning home from work etc. Shit might happen. Just na opinion. I’d be happy if that law would pass.
  • 2 0
 I admire the amount of discussion going on because last time I checked the third party insurance for a 50cc moped was something like 35 € p.a. (in Germany). So I would assume it is going to be significantly less for a pedelec...
  • 4 0
 Don’t let facts get in the way of people ranting
  • 2 0
 Ok so first up it's not gone through the final stages of being passed, so currently you're seeing the affect of massive lobbying by well funded insurance company's looking for a new revenue stream (and some paranoid control freakery too probably.).
Secondly, until the member states write this into their local law it won't apply anyway (let's skim over the fact that the lazy UK government always chose to just automatically legislate this kind of stuff whereas many other countries - France is a good example - take all the opt outs they see fit).
Finally, even if this nonsense does make it all the way to law, it's only going to apply to the public highway surely. So, pretty shitty but not a direct impact on the actual off road activities of the eMTB. Sure anyone riding their eMTB to the trail head is affected but this seems to be more focussed on the commuter style ebike.

Personally I see this going nowhere as it's almost impossible to enforce and makes little sense overall.
  • 2 0
 "let's skim over the fact that the lazy UK government always chose to just automatically legislate this kind of stuff"

Skim over it at your peril... These are the kinds of unsexy facts that get so easily buried under the lies spouted by those with big gobs and hollow intellects/nefarious motivations.
  • 2 0
 And what about get the Helmet mandatory first => no helmet no health coverage from you personnal insurance and national one.

an insurance is fair for fast ebike speed over 25km/h. but for the other come on this just Bullsh*t .

And whatever happend who will check this the cops doesn't have time to check terrorist or driver without liscense or insurance.... Will they have time to run after cyclist to check this.

They have much better stuff to do.
  • 2 0
 It is worth noting the everyone that has a British Cycle Member ship already have a 3rd part cover AND 10% discount with CRC. so a lot of UK rides already have cover, myself included.

I think that to use a road for any form of transport you should have 3rd part cover as default (horse and road bikes included). last year a cyclist hit and killed a women in London, as he only had a back peddle braking system and she didn't look.Insurance is there to cover "accidents" and they do seem to happen when you add people and speed.

Further more Helmets should be required by Law when on road or off road.

PS. I don't want a E-bike or a road bike.

more details found here www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership
  • 2 0
 Personally i think it should be done according to the speed the bike goes. If you want the bike to go above 25kph then you would have to pay insurance and have an mot for the bike.

I also think that each and every rider should have to complete a cbt (compulsory basic training) of sorts so they are aware of the laws of the road and bridleways. Car drivers should also be made to do this same course to make them more aware of cyclist and how to deal with them on the road.

Education is key on both sides.

Finally yes i know you will always get the dickheads that are impatient
  • 1 0
 In most european countries third party liabiiity insurances are already mandatory anyway. Or does it mean a separate insurance comparable to cars ? It wouldn't make sense as a single e-mtb can't do much more damages than a regular bicycle.
  • 2 0
 The big bosses smell money in bicycle industry they don't care what eMTBs do or don't do neither they care for what MTBs do or don't do. They only care about how much money can they make.
  • 1 0
 Don’t know why people are getting so upset about third party cover. I can only imagine it’s because they don’t realise doing something as simple as joining British Cyclig for £50 a year covers you (as well as giving you 10% off at chain reaction - spend £500 in a year at CRC and your third part insurance is therefore free). Every road club required members to have 3rd party already its no big deal at all.
  • 1 0
 This is called lobying. Its a response to that article about e bikes being a only vehicle to do it all. Insurance companies are threatend by diminishing use of cars so lets make insurance compolsory on any thing that moves. You will see... this is fucking bullshit, should just hang the people responsible for this up, they wreck this world.
  • 2 0
 exactly, found your comment after I wrote mine. Problem is people/companies with money will always have significant power over legislation. Look what they did in LA 100 years ago removing all public transportation.
  • 1 0
 Some of the e-bike riders are pretty useless. On the upside, I managed to get towed around 4 miles by holding on to an e-biker's satchel attached to the luggage rack on his frame without him noticing! It was on a cycle path and I stayed out of his field of vision, but did assist on starts a bit or he'd have noticed. I was happy he was wearing headphones. My guess is his battery took a proper beating that day. Saved a pile of time as I got in doing my normal speed, but without sweating, so no shower needed. And I was happy.
  • 1 0
 Given the amount of kids in Liverpool riding bikes like idiots (wheelies into traffic, on pavement etc) without helmets I feel like there are worse problems than ebikes. Bad cyclists make more problems than the bikes they ride do so policing that would be better than legislating against a particular type of bike. I can see that what is a motor bike (that's how I consider any bike with a motor) should maybe be insured for road use though so maybe emtb is going to pay the price as separating then from other ebikes is going to impossible.
  • 1 0
 Yeah but how good are the kids at wheelies nowadays. Little bastards spend more time on the back wheel than hans rey. It's darwinian tho, only the good ones survive
  • 1 0
 we had a law that let you drive velocípede (most popular among them was Piaggio Ciao) without helmet, licence or registration, that was dangerous and was chaos, there was more of them then bicycles, 2 years ago they bringed new law, that say you need to waer helmet, have a licence and registration, there is almost none of them now.
  • 1 0
 This likely will not get past a [European] Parliamentary vote. Just because it is a commission proposal doesn't mean it will progress any further. So, get in touch with your European parliamentary representative (those guys that you voted for .... ) and make them aware of your concerns. Just like you would do your local representatives.
  • 1 0
 I am against any kind of enforced insurance requirement and if this does go through i believe it will be the first steps to ALL cyclists having mandatory 3rd party insurance. But, is it not in your (riders) best interest to have 3rd party liability insurance anyway?
If for nothing more than not having to worry too much about any court actions brought against you, for what ever cycle related reasons.
I wouldn't ride without it. Example: Pedestrian walks out in front of you and you hit them, say they break an arm or leg or worse, how would you prove that it was not your fault, that you was riding appropriately, in control and with due care and attention. In this age of no win no fee, you could soon find yourself with a summons to county court. At least with insurance, if this happens you have legal cover, that alone could be very costly, you also have liability insurance to cover any compensation awards. That £35 has just saved you several thousand. No brainer really.

I have experience of Ebike riders at a number of trail centers, on one occasion i was physically forced (shoulder barged with no warning, no shouts of rider or any kind of trail courtesy) of the trail by a family (husband, wife and son) on an assent only to catch them up on on the next descent and let my feelings be known only to be told that i shouldn't have been in the way! Luckily, i have mellowed with age and was satisfied with ripping the wires out of the guys control unit. I got fed up of waiting for them to return to the carpark.
I class myself a competent rider, if this had been my wife they collided with things could have been a lot different for all concerned.

I have been overtaken by ebikes riders on ascents only to find them in a heap or wrapped around a tree near the top of the first descent.

I have also half killed myself chasing the b@@@@ around the forest trying to stay with them.

I believe education is the key, they should have some form of training before they can use the bikes in public, a green card if you like. No card, no ride... but this would be impossible to police. They certainly need to learn trail etiquette.

I have nothing against Ebikes at all, i envisage i will own one in the future, as i get older and my legs don't work so well.
  • 1 0
 Forgoing for the moment the issues of insurance if this passed as law, I especially don't like the idea of having to register ANY bike for ANY form of cycling full stop! as it smacks of "we want to know who you are, what you do, and when you do it, so we can make you pay to do it, and know where and when that occurs so you can pay for that too!"
Were it to pass for E-bikes then I seriously doubt much time would go by till the idea of ALL bikes would rear it's ugly head, and pass too.
Cycling in any form is pretty much the ONLY form of transport left on the planet that is still free, aside from actually buying the bike itself, you can do it once you've mastered the skill of riding at any age, and progress to lots of other forms of it however you like, whenever you like, without any law or registration preventing you from doing so at any point.

Right now as the law stands, if you don't process the skills, or equipment to ride properly wherever you might be, and you not careful enough when riding, to then hit some poor sod that was minding there own, well, chances are your going to a claims court, to have the beejuz sued out of you, your going to take a seriously nasty hit to your bank balance, weather your insured or not, cos someone, somewhere wants paying, and not just the poor so and so you hit.

If being required to insure and register your bike was to become law,(I'm unsure how you could do one without the other?) that would then open up the gates for your sorry ass to not only pay via fines, but be looking at the prospect of a prison sentence too, again irrespective of being insured or not, as you can then be found in a court to be "riding without due care and attention" or guilty of "dangerous riding" amongst many, many other new charges that would have to be drawn up for when a bicycle rider fk'ed up, all due to having a resister of bikes and there owners, as registering makes you then "liable".
Methinks that might take a lot of the fun out of riding for a fair few folk in the EU, don't whoop to soon if your a brexit fan just yet either, as you can bet your house on the idea catching on all over the world if it happens there, unless you happen to have a very green pro eco friendly government in power, (that said, even they might go for it, as it would be making tax/income) not too many of those around right now.
Most governments really LOVE the idea of making more money from any avenue they can find it, even more so here in the UK!
  • 1 0
 Interesting but disturbing news, makes me wonder whether the whole ebike thing is about to change things for cyclists.. Irritating since i have always been against ebikes due to the crapness of batteries and difficult in disposing them. Seems to me that best case scenario, they're bringing in laws early anticipating tech advances allowing ebikes to go super fast and be more dangerous.. Or maybe allowing for risk from explosive batteries for example. Worst case, they realize there's very little difference in risk between ebikes and bicycles and introduce rules meaning i have to have insurance to cycle to college. Either way, it's unlikely to be policed so id just continue as i am, but it's the principle! If i have to insure my ride to college, do i need insurance to skateboard? Or no cos Im not on the road?

I want to know why ebikes need insurance and bicycles don't... But i don't want to ask in case it prompts a conversation about bicycles
  • 6 2
 Hahahahahahahahahahahah! Oh crap, wait were leaving the EU, bollocks.
  • 1 0
 My grand father had to put a license plate on his bike (and pay for it):

www.pinterest.com/pin/446349013041923402

I have seen those fast ebikes (the 45km/h version) had also a license plate.

Time to wake up guys.
  • 1 0
 Hey ebikes are the future let’s make some money and start taxing them and all that bullshit,make them have a license an insurance and ..........,let’s just control them like almost the rest of their life’s
  • 2 0
 Article fails to mention that "individual EU states can, if they so choose, exempt e-bikes from the decision"
  • 2 0
 Sorry, but you are wrong. EC wants to amend a directive and a directive is is a legal act that does dictate the state members the desired result. The local laws must be different but the outcome will be pretty much the same, you must have an insurance company backing up in case of incidents.
The proposal for amendment is @ ec.europa.eu/info/publications/180524-proposal-motor-insurance_en and clearly states the following: "During the public consultation a number of associations representing the electric bicycles industry called for an exclusion of such vehicles in the Directive itself, arguing that requiring third party liability insurance could undermine the uptake of electric bicycles. This is not considered necessary in light of the power of Member States to exempt electric bicycles or any other new electric motor vehicles. In that case, the national guarantee funds would bear the costs of reimbursing victims of accidents caused by these new types of vehicles" This means that if a certain state choses to not pass any laws regarding mandatory insurance for emtbs the state will reinburse the victims of accidents caused by emtbs. Guess what states will take that risk?
  • 1 0
 The EU also dictates animals should be stunned before slaughter but member states can ignore that one too for religious reasons. Member states also have veto on lots of directives . @JDMEH:
  • 1 0
 @poah: You do not veto a directive, you can just chose how to implement a directive. Also a directive is directed at one or more members so many times does not apply to all of them. For the sake of not wasting time here, please read the differences between various legal acts of EU @ europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/legal-acts_en
  • 1 0
 @JDMEH: That's quite good leverage I'd say. But I'm sure we'll all see a nice trickle-down effect in the form of lower premiums.
  • 1 0
 How they choose to police it will be important. People will always find a way to slip through the cracks.
  • 2 0
 EU law right? Maybe we can ignore this after Brexit!
  • 6 6
 and people wondered why we voted to leave the EU when they try and implement this kinda shit.
  • 4 3
 They don't wonder, they automatically assume were just racist xenophobes and that EU is a big warm cuddly thing we should love and trust unconditionally, and not that it is the most corrupt and fucked up political organization on the planet, and that every member country should get the fuck out of it. Or that along with the fact that none of us, especially those who voted to join the EEC in 1975, was given a vote when it came to the devolution of our own law and legislative independence to an unaccountable, unelected, self appointed centralised government. No, we voted leave coz we just dumb innit.
  • 2 0
 @JDMEH: Good try mate. Scotland also voted prior to that referendum to remain as part of the UK. When the UK voted to leave the EU that includes Scotland hence Poah's collective "we". Not every Scot voted to remain in the EU I might add. Sorry.
  • 1 1
 @toby9843: Of course not every scot voted the same but I am talking about votes and this means we are talking percentages. Single votes do not count in the big picture. Sorry and welcome to the real world.
  • 1 0
 @toby9843: @JDMEH Best way to some up this argument is "cool story bro he doesn't agree with the majority" let the guy speak and say he can't because the majority said the opposite.
  • 6 0
 @deadmeat25: > the most corrupt and f*cked up political organization on the planet
Never go full Farage.
  • 2 0
 That’s irrelevant given our political union. @JDMEH:
  • 1 0
 @greglikesspecialized: Dude, I said Scotland voted to remain in EU and this means the majority counts. If you have an issue with how elections/referendums/etc are working, talk with your local law maker.
  • 3 0
 @JDMEH: Haha you're being undone by your own logic mate. The majority does count, you're quite right, hence Scotland remain in the UK and therefore leave the EU. You say Scotland voted to remain in the EU which makes it sound like the whole country went "Oi, UK, we're staying in Europe, sorry", which of course they didn't. Lets just say it's semantics and leave it at that, it's an irrelevant argument being that the UK is intact.
  • 1 0
 @JDMEH: Scotland did not have a vote on Europe ... the UK had a vote and voted to leave. ;-)
  • 3 0
 @MysticMCyclist: nobody and I mean nobody ( including the politicians on both sides ) knew what they where voting for ! And if they say they did , they’re delusional ! Brexit will be the biggest cockup since John Holmes . The biggest threat to are nation is that scaremongering tabloid The Daily Mail !
As for ebike insurance , I think all road using vehicles should have insurance but not off-road ! The sustained speed argument is nonsense , I’ve never seen an ebiker go as fast as a decent dh rider , they just go abit faster uphill !
  • 1 0
 this smells car industry lobby long way...
  • 1 0
 next thing is that UCI will make some EMTB rules or what...?
  • 2 1
 So is eMTB a motorsport?
  • 2 2
 nope
  • 2 1
 Seems like it is
  • 5 10
flag WAKIdesigns (May 24, 2018 at 10:21) (Below Threshold)
 Yes it is. But it doesn’t mean they are motorbikes. If you want to know what a motorbike is please google super cross or moto GP
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: So no '46' & Akrapovic stickers, ok.
  • 2 1
 Boohoo....
  • 3 3
 Police it with a match & a can of petrol!
  • 5 0
 Coming from a user who’d rather not pedal
  • 3 4
 Just remember legislation is never retrospective, therefore if you own the bike now you will be exempt from this law
  • 6 0
 You do not have a law degree, right? New laws do not apply retrospective means that you will not be fined if you did not had an insurance before that, but if the law passes is mandatory to get an insurance even though you have purchased the emtb before.
  • 2 0
 @JDMEH: correct I don’t have a law degree, think I got confused between legislation and law! Thanks for the heads up
  • 1 1
 This is why there’s e bike hate and rightfully so.
  • 1 0
 Those shorts?
  • 1 0
 Gash, aren't they
  • 1 0
 HAHAHAHA
  • 1 1
 Ha ha ha.......... #f*ckebikes
  • 1 0
 e bike no thanks at all
  • 4 7
 Yes! Oh yes! Victory of reason over pseudo-health and environmental religions!
  • 2 0
 Tell me more about the reason.
  • 6 0
 Do you even have a 'Troll Mode Off' button?
  • 3 6
 @deadmeat25: Trolling is off, so is sarcasm. genuine happyness. #paytoplay
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Pay road tax then you road wearing hypocrite. at pay to f*cking play biiaaatch!
  • 4 6
 @deadmeat25: I pay road tax, insurance, personal insurance and then the tax to drive into town, you idiot. You've obviously haven't seen your kids almost ridden over, haven't seen a kid that someone rode into while she was sitting in the stroller. You will be teaching me about how riding in town looks like? I commute almost everyday since 8 years, rain snow or wind.

Huh a new form of Pinkbike troll, pro E-bike zealot, who would have thought...
  • 4 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I meant for your bicycle Waki. As you get angrier, you make less and less sense.
  • 8 1
 @deadmeat25: "Road tax" in the UK is actually Vehicle Exercise Duty, and is based purely on emissions.
Electric cars, and even low CO2 petrol cars don't pay it. Why would a Bike need to pay it? Do you pay Pavement Tax for walking to the shop?
Road maintenance is taken from your council tax.
  • 2 3
 @Konda: Alright clever clogs Smile
  • 1 0
 @Konda: look at the name of the website you go too to tax your car.
  • 3 5
 Good riddance
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