An Air-Pressurized Frame For Adventure Bikes? - Eurobike 2018

 I want to say something negative but, I can't. This thing is impressive! Such simplicity and ingenuity. I hope this guy makes lots of money.

 @enrico650: why would you want to say something negative in first place?

 Can I have one that is filled with rum and coke instead of air. Shit shovel,,, do people actually do that???? I just let the logs roll as they may. Diarrhea brown pain and shit shovel, I'm seeing a pattern here. Pass

 Thanks! We did not expect so much positive comments, lets see if we can get these to a small production...

 There is a (short) video we made with @garby65 made check it out: www.pinkbike.com/video/489014

 @JoelDunkl: are you from France or Austria, since the flag is Austria, but It says France in the article...

 @Rainozeros: Halb / Halb I actually sold you a pair of saint/XT brakes back in Vienna remember?

I'll be riding that bike this week end in Vienna maybe Weidlingbach / Hohe wands new jump line. Send me a PM if you want to meet up. WWT for the win

 Over night from Japan....

 Imagine if Minnaar's bike was pressurized during that crash at Val Di Sole last year....

This is a seriously sick adventure/touring bike. I love how everything is flawlessly integrated on the bike.

 @scott-townes: Yea definitely not for all applications, but for this it would be great. it's been done on various types of off road trucks in the cages and bumpers.

 @scott-townes: Wouldn't pressurized tubes make it stouter? I'm imagining it like a pressurized beverage container, vs one that's not pressurized.

 @scott-townes: yep, cracking a frame that did contain 220 psi is a bad idea. Very bad idea.

 Integrating the air into the frame at 2,200 psi and adhering to any ASME or PED pressure vessel safety code is going to result in the down tube and top tube alone weighing 8-10 pounds (4-5 kg) if it is a steel frame. It's not possible safely in aluminum. Just the back of the envelope calculation suggests a 1/10 to 1/8 wall thickness is required for a 1.25 inch diameter tube at that pressure, more likely thicker and heavier once you put in some safety factors. These pipes weigh in around 1.25 pounds per foot and up.

And just for fun, let's say you are into 12 lb framesets - you know, the kind that won't blow your balls off unexpectedly because they don't meet code. Once you've used up your 2,200 psi air reservoir where do you think the average person can go and get it refilled? Unless there is a scuba shop beside every one of your favourite espresso shops you are going to be out of luck. The boiler on the best Faema or Saeco barely makes enough pressure to rival a floor pump.

It's kind of unfortunate that pinkbike doesn't seem to have a single competent technical editor to review these articles when you consider how much science and engineering goes into this sport. This is the second time in a month that pinkbike has run an article endorsing a product that could put the public's safety at risk. The last was that aluminum drink bottle / pressurized air kit that was recalled before most of us could even read to the end of pinkbike's glowing review of it.

 @thenotoriousmic: You missed a zero. And a whole lot of very's....

 @ebrown123: 20 bars 290 psi I thought it was 220. Ether way it’s stupid I’m pretty sure 300 psi would still make a right mess if it cracked and exploded.

 @thenotoriousmic: Sorry, I thought you had missed the zero on the claim of 2,200 psi or 150 bar. But you're very very right in any case.

 @ebrown123: think you've misread 2,200 psi.

 @gshev: Sorry, 2175.566psi as per the article. Shoddy rounding on my part.

 @ebrown123: You definitely don't need 2000psi. lol. A system could use a bladder to mitigate risk but it would still be much lower to do it. There are already solutions like this in place outside of cycling, but it would be heavy as is. However, for a touring bike, it's not the end of the world to add a bit of weight.

 @atrokz: The author of the article and the builder claimed 2,200 psi and 150 bar, not me. And then the author went on to emphasize it wasn't a typo and that 2,200 psi was the number. I'm just pointing out how completely ridiculous the claim is without any practical considerations for the relevant pressure vessel codes.

 @ebrown123: however you chose my post to respond to. I wasn't advocating for a high pressure vessel in your down-tube, and I agree with most of your points, but I do see a proper way to achieve this without just using the tubing itself as that has it's own issues (relying on welds, thin tubing etc)

 @ebrown123: I think the 150 bar claim wasnt a suggestion to fill the frame that highly, but rather the upper limit on testing. It was likely mentioned to reassure people that it wouldn't explode at the 20 bar recommended pressure rather than to ever be actually used like that.

 @ebrown123: up to 150 bar, recommend is 20 bar but I guess you were too busy foaming at the mouth and writing a post to tell everyone how bad it it's to read that but huh?

 @scott-townes: If Mr Min was riding a steel frame on that race he would have snapped the pole in half, picked up the bike and finished the run .... plastic bikes don't like being slammed into timber poles, steel gives 0%#%^'s and keeps going strong

 Just add a decent barrel , air rifle action and you can use it for huntin' too. . This thing will feed you and then help you bury the waste afterwards. Perfect for post Trumpageddon survivalists.

 @atrokz: You're right that I basically replied to the first comment that talked about the air in the frame as I thought it would keep the topic in the same thread. It wasn't personal and maybe I should have posted as a separate comment at the bottom instead. If there was an ability to delete or edit my comments I would move it. I agree that you were supporting the idea and not the pressure claims that the builder and author suggested.

 @MitchThompson89: Would you be willing to stand beside or ride that frame while it was filled up to 150 bar?

 @headshot: that would be the 'Merica version

 @HairyLegs: I had this beautiful blue steel Voodoo Erzulie for a while. Unfortunately I jumped over small road once and crashed into a stump I couldn't see when I took off. It buckled the downtube and I ended up with a frame steeper than a BMX. I rode it for another while as designer Joe Murray said it was probably still strong enough. And it was, just the geometry was hard to handle. If it were inflated though, I'm pretty sure it would have ripped.

As for the pressure tank, yes I'd never have used aluminium. Steel is much better for fatigue if done correctly. At these pressures though I'd say it need an airtight liner inside, fiber wrapped (filament wound or braided, no seams). If the liner cuts, it loses pressure more gracefully. Steel still rips violently.

 @scott-townes: We are big fans of Greg #peinardcommegregminaar Much more than in DH we think for enduro racing it would be much appriciated.

 About the air pressure: you need about 14 bars in the frame to blow up two plus sized tires to aprox. 1.5 bars. We want it to be refilled with a normal floor pump, no need for more.

After our theoretical calculations it would resist up to 150 bars, but that was more a engineers thing to think we are smart. We actually did a second prototype that Yoann crashed on the first run ever. Frontfliped down a 1,5m drop, full on a tree on the DT. Frame is still straight and air tight. Here is a pic: www.instagram.com/p/Bjy4a15hvZe/?taken-by=menhircycles

 Came looking for this.

 Same thoughts. No thanks on this one.

 Also wouldn’t that brake boss jusy create a rotational torque? Seems like a cool looking idea, but that’s it

 I like the doubling as a downtube guard idea if other mounts aren't there. The first rule of a shit shovel when camping though is that it never touches the shit, just digs a hole the scoops the removed dirt back over it. So I wouldn't worry about it being near me.

 @dpfeiff12 180mm tu rule them all. Shit never touches your poo, thanks for your great idea we thought about the DT crash plate thats why there is a Third "hole" thats 64mm seperated and can be fixed to any bottle mount. If you have one

 I can see you've played knifey spoony before

 That's what your seat is for

 I can safely say that I have never done that in 27 years of MTB... Seriously? Where is the bog roll

 @clarky78: It more likely happens if you travel to very foreign places. Considering it's a touring/adventure bike, your digestive system's likely is going to be seeing stuff it's not used to.

 @clarky78: Its an adventure bike... Its designed for multi day epics where nature will call eventually

 Those of us with the joys of irritable bowel syndrome would buy one in minute. On the other hand, we sometimes don't have a minute...

 I'd rather drop a duece in Waki's mouth.

 Props for the Asterix reference

 It would be even lighter if the tubes were a sealed vacuum (any amount of a gas, regardless of type, is heavier than no gas) but the weight would be trivial.

 @poah: It would change the weight, which is what we're talking about... "Lighter", not "less massive" or "less dense".

 @kelownakona:
And when there is a vacuum there is even less mass.

 @mtbikeaddict:
Well "lighter" is less massive. Mass * gravity = weight and mass = volume * density

 The bike would be heavier as helium is less dense than air and would need more of it to get to the same pressure as air - There is a good youtube video of a bmx with helium in the tires

 @captainslappa: media.giphy.com/media/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/giphy.gif

 @emptybox: @kelownakona: Whoops, I goofed. I was thinking the mass of the frame. Yeah, it would change the mass of the overall bike.

 @kelownakona: Go for hydrogen for even less mass. Think of the fun! (ala Hindenburg)

 We actually thought of that, no real impact. Same for vacuum sounds nice on paper @Anditsonfire, gaining 2 gramms wont be much of a diffrence on a steel HT . We focused on usability, durability and FUN.

 The top tube and down tube combined hold about a quarter of a gram of air, so that's the most you could save, by taking it all out. Helium has weight of course so the potential weight savings from using it would be less than that.

 Because cleaning that thing would be a pain in the ass!

 That is insanely light, but it's totally different materials and application.

 www.trials-forum.co.uk/topic/125269-syntace-trials-frame

 @SickEdit Thanks! We actually heard about this first time at eurobike on the alutech stand! Sounds amazing wonder if he thought about a pump system at the time. Weight was not really something we focused on.

 What you mean? It probably serves 120 facing down, 140 facing up and then larger and larger on the up side with adaptors? Seems like a great idea to me

 @AndrewMacNaughton: i see what you think you can do but, i dont reckon it can do that. If you went top to top on the mount, (instead of the "as pictured" top to bottom) you would never be able to tighten the bolt, or even get a bolt in due to the seat stays being completely in the way. One rotor size only me thinks

 Hehe, it is made by Xavier, a friend of WhiteCrow tech:

whitecrow-tech.com

I think he is near to production now, he was demoing his hub at last Girona's Sea Other Europe event.

 @zoobab2 @Chonky13 thanks for this input, need to do a collab. Dropper post could be used as a pump as well ...

 And restrictive

 No it makes it float less

 @emptybox: I think that depends on if

 Oops, hit enter... I think that depends on how quickly water gets into a normal bike frame. This would presumably float worse than a bike with a half decently sealed tube. Now if you could use the air to inflate a raft...

 It just needs an airbag that quickly inflates when you fall in water.

 @Anditsonfire: It floats worse because it has more air in it, thus becoming heavier. I have figured it becomes 38 grams heavier when filled up with air at max pressure.

 He doesn't want people using different size rotors that work for their body weight and riding style?

 Wondering the same thing. It looks remarkably thin and frail. I always wonder why people are so stuck on saving weight in the stem.

 USE Ultimate Vyce 35. According to MBR it's "pretty damn stiff in use with very little noticeable flex".

 Oh wait, that's the 31.8 not the 35.