Eurobike Randoms II - Eurobike 2018

Jul 10, 2018
by Alex Evans  
Schwalbe Eddy Current Tyres

The knobs on the front tyre are direction-specific and run vertically along the tyre.
The knobs on the front tyre should offer better turning performance and run vertically along the tyre rather than horizontally across it.

Schwalbe's new Eddy Current tyre might be eMTB specific but its tread pattern looks like it'll suit downhill applications well. The tyres come in both 275 and 29-inch versions and they have different tread patterns and widths for the front and rear - the front being more suited to cornering and the rear much better at giving grip under acceleration or braking. Both tyres are running super gravity casing so punctures are going to be rarer than thinner-carcass rubber.

The rear is a big weighty badass looking tyre.
The rear is a big, weighty badass looking tyre.
The front tyre's width is a little more conservative

The front tyre's knobs are Minion DHF-esque, running in the same direction as the tyre's rotation. The big, long blocks with ample spacing should provide excellent cornering traction. Although they might not work in the muddiest of conditions, the tyre looks to be beefy enough to give at least some grip when it's wet and boggy. The front tyre we shot is a 29X2.4, which'll have a similar outer circumference to the smaller but fatter rear.

Yes these are eMTB specific.
The tyre looks awesome for cornering and I wouldn t be surprised if these popped up on DH racers bikes soon.

The rear tyre has a much squarer tread pattern than the front, that's best suited to speeding up and braking hard. The rear tyre pictured is a 275X2.8 which sits firmly in 'plus' tyre territory.

That s a good looking set of knobs.
Reminiscent of a MX tyre these knobs are perfect to deal with the braking and acceleration forces that eMTBs can generate. Maybe we ll also be seeing the rear Eddy Current on a DH bike soon.
Reminiscent of an MX tyre, these knobs are perfect to deal with the braking and acceleration forces that eMTBs can generate. Maybe we'll be seeing the Eddy Currents on DH bikes soon?



Topeak CubiCubi & TubiBooster

The different batteries dictate how much power and lights give out.
The different batteries dictate how much power and lights give out.

Topeak's new modular light system is designed to fit and work around GoPro's Session camera mount - the CubiCubi lights and battery units are the same size as a Session. The lights' batteries are interchangeable and with the biggest battery a single light unit can produce up to 1200 lumens. Adding a second light in the mount you can double your potential output.

The CubiCubi Series is a modular light that s based around GoPro s Session model.
The CubiCubi Series is a modular light that's based around GoPro's Session model.
The mount is lightweight but holds the lights even when you ve got the biggest battery nice and securely.
The mount is lightweight but holds the lights, even when you've got the biggest battery, nice and securely.

The lights are rechargeable with a USB cable or a charging dock. The batteries can also double up as a power bank to charge other USB devices. There are three battery sizes and several mounts available. They're expected to go on sale Autumn 2019 next year and will cost from $99.95.

There s even a helmet mount of the CubiCubi
There's even a helmet mount of the CubiCubi

Topeak's entry into the tubless inflator market seems logical considering their ever-popular JoeBlow track pump. The tubless inflator has a maximum pressure of 200psi, will retail for somewhere between $60 and $70 and should be available in Autumn 2019.

The TubiBooster is Topeak s take on the tubeless inflator canister.
The TubiBooster is Topeak's take on the tubeless inflator canister.



Orange Strange 229

329 Strange Prototype.
329 Strange Prototype.

Orange's Strange 329 prototype DH bike looks fairly similar to their current DH rig but has been designed and built for 29-inch wheels. Touting a low BB with an 83mm shell, ISCG 05, 150mm rear axle and many other features, it looks like a thoroughbred race bike. It does have a party trick, though. At the bottom of the downtube there's space and mounting points for ballast weights.

All the weights together equal 1kg or 1000g.
All the weights together equal 1kg or 1000g.

These weights help to modify and adjust the sprung to unsprung mass ratio whilst adding weight to the bike in the lowest possible place. This can have several advantages: adding weight to the sprung mass can improve suspension performance - the relative weight of the swing arm to the main frame means that the swing arm's movement has a smaller destabilising effect on the bike's overall ride position. Because there is less potential for destabilisation, the suspension can be more efficient.

You can add and remove any of the three weights.
You can add and remove any of the three weights.

Not only that, a heavier bike can ride better on rougher tracks. Once again, applying the same principal of destabilisation, the weightier the bike the less likely it is going to get bucked around on choppy tracks.

The mount spacing is the same as a bottle cage so if you really fancied you could fit a bottle to your DH rig.
The mount spacing is the same as a bottle cage, so if you really fancy, you could fit a bottle to your DH rig.

Obviously this is an oversimplification of the idea, but Orange appear to be open to applying this idea of adding weights to their do-it-all enduro bikes so that on one day you can pedal and the next you can ride chairlift-assisted bike park on the same bike.

Oh, and the weight mounts use the same spacing as a water bottle!



CatEye Volt 1700

Replacing their 1600 model, the Volt 1700 feels lightweight but boasts a 150-hour run time and a max of 1700 lumen output. It uses a cartridge battery so the light's life is only dictated by how many batteries you can carry. It will be supplied with both helmet and bar mounts that are compatible with GoPro's system.

CatEye s Volt 1700 replaces their 1600 model and has a 150 hour run time.
CatEye's Volt 1700 replaces their 1600 model and has a 150 hour run time.



MENTIONS: @orangebikes @schwalbe


Must Read This Week

167 Comments

  • + 76
 Every time I see an Orange bike I just want one. Of course this will cost me an extra 25% now because it’s Aluminium. Tariffs and trade wars ya know. Wouldn’t want to be hurting all the hundreds of great US aluminum hand welded bike frame manufacturers employing untold thousands of workers that are making a better product than these imported British frames but getting squeezed out of the market because of these cheap British goods.... what a bizzare world we currently live in.
  • + 23
 Not that I agree with the tariff trade war deal but the information seems to indicate that that impact to aluminum and steel if not related to "Finished products." Raw materials of aluminum and steel are affected but a bike made in another country and shipped here is not. Just some information if you now want to rip that wallet out and and get that new bike.

www.cmtradelaw.com/2018/03/products-affected-by-section-232-tariffs-on-steel-and-aluminum
  • + 6
 @vjunior21: Thanks for that link. I kinda already knew that was the case, just wasn’t sure about what. Feeling very salty about the current state of affairs. I’m well aware of the fact that the folks in the main to get hurt by this wonderfully crafted new “trade policy” are going to be those who actually still work in manufacturing here in this country. Which makes it even more bizzare on so many levels. And yeah Orange bikes are friggin great. Taking single pivot simplicity to its apex, hand welding with a refined “mad max” look. I dig em.
  • + 22
 SHOT FIRED.BOTTLE CAGE ON DH BIKE.
  • + 3
 It's finished goods, and therefore not subject to the tariff.
  • + 3
 @vjunior21: "Companies can seek to get product exclusions of the aforementioned products via exclusion requests." aka pull on your knee pads and start sucking the right d's. This is nearly word for word from Atlas Shrugged.

Ripples to the global market for metals will eventually make their way into price increases on finished goods. It just won't be as apparent as an instant 25% price hike on everything. Metal manufacturers will need to hedge their prices based on future demand fluctuations.
  • + 2
 @chyu: that made me lulz
  • + 3
 @vjunior21: That's hillarious. The only people its hurting then are the companies who actually make things out of steel and aluminum in the USA then? So the Tariffs are going to reduce incoming raw materials for US jobs and ignore the companies who out sourced their production jobs over seas and bring in finished products? How does that make any sense?
  • + 61
 If E MTBs don't cause anymore damage to trails than a normal bike then why do they need tires that can supposedly stand up to harder acceleration and braking???
  • + 38
 They keep coming out with crap to beef up the drivetrain, brakes, wheels, and tires. Even alpinestars E-kneepads! Soon they will remove the pedals and the evolution will be complete. They'll still ride them on pedestrian trails.
  • + 7
 @casman86: I hope you're wrong..
  • + 5
 @casman86: "E-kneepads" seems linguistically redundant.

E-pads?
  • + 4
 They don't, it's just marketing. Rather than compete with all other tires out there, they create a niche product specific to the eMTB.
  • + 11
 @PinkyScar: knE-pads
  • + 3
 @casman86: seriously, a-stars has electric cycle specific knee pads..?
No respect for that.
  • - 2
 It's just marketing. You really should just go ride one dude. Then you'll understand that there is no need to fear the e-boogieman
  • + 12
 @jrocksdh:
Alpinestars has been making products specific to powered bikes for decades! Wink
  • + 9
 @PinkyScar: Wait until they release the upgraded E-knee Me-knee My-knee pads next year, for Eenduro.
  • + 1
 The accleration uphill obviously and the breaking beacause they are 20 lbs heavier.
  • + 1
 Super wide MX style tyres for an EBike... We're almost ready for a name change.
  • + 4
 @Rubberelli: Braking? Really? So two people that have a 20lbs difference in weight that ride a normal bike would also need different tires? Perhaps also a beefier fork? What a load of BS!!! Ebike products are total BS. The only good thing is that they allow very heavy/very aggressive riders to buy stronger products.
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: the heavier you are, the more brake you need. I see heavy hardtail riders rolling 200mm rotors all the time (including me and my 200lb self). Compare a semi truck's brakes to your cars. The tire issue, I would guess, has more to do with speed of the climb rather than weight. You would choose a different tire for a slow crawl rather than a 20mph blast uphill.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: The success of the EKMKMK knee pad is assured if a regenerative hinging feature can be incorporated.

Official kneepad of the World E-Enduro Series?
  • + 2
 @Rubberelli: I agree and I already said that but 20lbs is nothing. Besides we already have beefier tires eg 1.5 and 2ply tires. The idea that ebikes are going to destroy tires/forks/etc is ridiculous seeing as they are limited to 25km/h. Sure if they could go twice as fast uphill I'd understand.
  • + 1
 @SintraFreeride: their speed isn't limited going downhill. I find it hard to believe that a bike weighing twice as much will not need beefier everything as it hits the gnar. After all, DH bikes need beefier stuff weighing 10 lbs more. I see guys riding EXO trail tires on their Enduro bikes on DH tracks. Those same tires wouldn't last more than a run or two on a big bike.
  • + 2
 @Rubberelli: What I am saying is that if you ride gnarly stuff you will already be on DH or Enduro tires. These tires are more than capable for ebikes. Now ebike forks is only really worth it for people over 100kg. My bike weighs 16.5kg and I'm 60kg all kitted out. If I let my 80kg friend ride it I would only change the spring rate and up the tire pressure slightly. No need to switch to an ebike fork or ebike wheels! That would be a bigger difference than me switching to an ebike which generally weigh around 25kg.
  • + 1
 @casman86: Get over yourself and give your head a shake. E is one of the few categories of complete bike sales that are growing. So obviously they are sticking an E in front of everything to make the easy sale. If you have ever paid attention the industry needs some new thing every 3 years to grab onto and market to try and grow sales.

Nothing to do with actual riding or performance improvements just making money. Bikes and gear are so expensive now people to replace their stuff every year. Thats what happens when bikes are 5,000.00 for what used to cost about 2500.00. If you ride a carbon frame and wheels thank yourself.
  • + 23
 So let me get this straight, we are now expected to bolt on weights to make the suspension work more efficiently as the sprung/unsprung weight is important? A litre of beer weighs 1kg and that counts as sprung weight doesn't it? Also beer is around the centre of my mass after consumption, so it can be be moved dynamically while riding to improve weight distribution and thus handling at will...
  • + 10
 At Orange unfortunately they don't drink beer, but some really weird Kool-Aid...
  • + 9
 The weights are only necessary to offset the unsprung weight of your 13 speed hydraulic cassette and derailleur
  • + 4
 I prefer adding dead weight via carbon plates. Moar vertical compliance.
  • + 17
 @PinkyScar: Plus, carbon plates would be lighter! And we all know that lighter is better even when heavier is better.
  • + 0
 In most powersports you want to decrease the unsprung weight as much as possible as it affects the handling in undesireable ways. Consider it dead weight that hinders the stability of whatever platform it is on. makes turning slower and doesn't get damped by the suspension. By putting the weight on the frame, it is managed by the suspension vs having wheel weight or attaching it to the fork lowers or rear swing arm. Not a DH racer, so I can't speak to the need for heavier frames for stability outside of the obvious idea. The tricky bit in our world is that we power the vehicle, so less weight to mangle on the climb is considered a good thing.
  • + 2
 @bbeak: A lighter-heavier. I think I understand.
  • + 20
 Love the weights on the Orange. At last somebody understands weight doesn't matter! Weight is only a metric to allow marketing to hang their bullshit on...
  • + 102
 Have you pedaled up hills?
  • + 116
 @casman86: Do you pedal up hills with a DH bike?
  • + 23
 @casman86: i would rather climb a heavy bike that handles well on the downhills than have no fun on the downhills with an XC race rig.
  • + 25
 So glad we got that clarification of exactly how many grams there are. That’s the kind of detail I come to Pinkbike for.
  • + 4
 @casman86: What do you pedal up the hill, Just the bike, or you and the bike. One kg to the weight of the system, bike plus rider, is a small increase in %age. Unless you are an 8st XC whippet on a 20lb bike, racing for the podium; weight is pretty irrelevant, within reason.
  • + 1
 @SvSake: They're mentioning enduro bikes.
  • + 3
 Would love if they also developed fitting downtube protection that goes over those weights. To silence the sound of rubble hitting the downtube and to silence the nerd talk on the uplift.
  • + 7
 @phutphutend: There's a huge difference climbing a 34lb bike vs 28lb bike. Think about it as the muscle to bike weight ratio. If you have a lot of muscle weight on your body it's pretty helpful but the bike weight is dead weight that you have to maneuver around and over obstacles with your, muscles... Tilt the ratio in your favor.
  • + 11
 Try to hang this bike on the chairlift after 10 runs...
  • + 0
 @RoverDover: Me too, my bike is 32lbs, just think it's ridiculous that they would add ballast instead of building the bike heavier/stronger if they were going that route. I guess the goal with bike show stuff is just to stand out by being ridiculous, like with the stupid 13spd hydraulic clickbait.
  • + 0
 @iqbal-achieve: A. They didn't tell them B. Probably A.
  • + 19
 @phutphutend:

You just pedal the bike up the hill of course. . the weights detach and go in your backpack...

Rolleyes
  • + 4
 @easyslorider:
It's getting my bike on the roof rack at the end of the day that I struggle with!
  • + 8
 Does this mean I should be filling my water bottle from my Camelback at the top of climbs to add weight in pretty much the same area?
  • + 10
 Don't people realize that this is high performance stuff we're talking here? You can't replace tuned and optimized weights by water.

That said, I'd say metal if for peasants. I only add high performance carbon composite weights to my bike, because these are lighter.
  • + 2
 @casman86: i think the point is end-user adjustability
  • + 1
 @SvSake: this one time at band camp, I did
  • + 3
 Weight does matter, that's why they've added some.
  • + 0
 @iqbal-achieve: It's a subtle way of educating Americans.
  • + 1
 @phutphutend: Assuming 88 kg rider + bike and 300 watts, a 1kg change results in a 1% watt/kg change, which is a significant amount for a fit racer who is training to improve their watt/kg ratio, and would be equal to several positions in a typical XC race. How much it matters for DH is open to interpretation, but differences larger than 1kg are clearly noticeable in my experience.
  • + 1
 @DarrellW: ah I think we're good on grams, ounces, and pounds..lol
  • + 1
 oranges weigh a ton already without putting weight on the bottom..
  • + 1
 @dthomp325:

Can you explain your numbers, I'm a little confused.

Are you saying a 1kg weight reduces will reduce climbing power by 1%. This is about right.

Or are you saying 1%/kg, so 88% change for an 88kg rider. If so, I think you are mixing your drinks a little.

All we are changing by adding 1kg weight is the amount of energy required to get the system, bike plus rider to the top of the hill. So 1kg, for a 100kg system is 1%.

So, with 3kg of water in your pack, do you notice a significant difference in climbing when it is full compared to when it is empty, I doubt it?
  • + 3
 @casman86: it is sprung weight vs unsprung weight. If you are racing, you might add ballast on a rough track and remove it at the bike park to hit the jumps. If the frame is just built heavier, then the weight will not be where it is most needed for gnar and the bike will jump like a brick.
  • + 1
 @phutphutend: Damn, I should have payed more attention in math class.....
  • + 0
 @iqbal-achieve:

Gotta explain it for American readers
  • + 1
 My Yeti has a bottle cage in the same spot... If i put a full, big water bottle in i have also added a kilo...

So far my testing results are:
1) can not tell any difference riding downhill.
2) might feel a difference uphill.
3)definitely feel a difference lifting the bike on my bike rack.
  • + 1
 If weight in dh does not matter, I wonder why dh pros try to have their bikes as light as possible without compromising reliability.
Maybe because a lighter bike is more responsive and easier to jump...?
That orange must already weight 40+ Pounds... if anybody needs more weight to “improve the ride” it may be time to get a plus bike or some riding lessons.
  • + 1
 @RedRedRe: yeah I’m with ya. Riding bikes is so much about how the rider interacts with the bike. People like CP can keep coming up with all these theories about how to get a bike over terrain quicker or round corners etc etc but at the end of the day the relationship between the rider and the bike plays a more important role. And if that rider can’t manipulate the bike the way he or she has learned, developed muscle memory from a youngster and just not feel good on the bike they won’t go as fast. Whether or not the theories check out.
  • + 1
 @whambat: Just drink beer at the bottom of the hill then piss into a water bottle at the top.
  • + 2
 @dirtmiester: This Orange isn't too heavy compared to the competition.

Now people seem to miss the point of why this bike is called Strange instead of Orange. You can't buy it, it is under development. They built a lightweight bike so that they could play with the weight until they've got it right. Once they've found the number, they know how much they want to add and how to add that in a sensible manner (to reinforce, stiffen or use stronger/heavier components). Don't expect you'll ride the Strange unless you're a tester or journalist. And don't expect that if you get the Orange that is the result of this development, that it will be designed to add weight to. See, Dirt magazine tested this bike and found it light but that it didn't hold its line very well. So that's why they're doing this testing.
  • + 2
 @RedRedRe: Loic Bruni was adding weight to his Demo so that it held a line, as the bike is very lightweight. I have read about various DH pros adding weight to their bikes for years, at least since carbon showed up. Dirt did some testing, as I recall, and found heavier bikes were generally faster downhill.
  • + 2
 @Rubberelli: Yeah Vouilloz said that while carbon is great for tuning compliance/ stiffness he thinks you need to add weight back in as the bikes are too light to be ridden fast, even that the bikes he was racing in his day were better in that regard.
  • + 3
 Guys guys just add rolls of $100 bills for weight........its probably cheaper.........
  • + 2
 @iqbal-achieve: I think Orange is onto something for sure. Us mere mortals would greatly benefit from a featherlight Demo, as we could lift and hop it as we picked our way through a rock garden. But if you are hitting those same rocks at twice or more the speed, you need weight to keep its composure and not buck you off.
  • + 1
 @DonkeyTeeth: Will a flute will fit in a bottle cage pump mount?

Asking for a friend.
  • + 2
 @vuddha: Metric weights are more light-heavier than imperial weights, esp. in carbon.
  • + 2
 @phutphutend: 300 watts/88kg is 3.409, 300 watts/89kg is 3.370, a difference of ~1%. Racing "categories" in the US are separated by about 10% difference in watts/kg for XC and road racing, so a 1% difference is significant. Obviously, it matters much, much less for DH racing.
  • + 1
 @acali: haha
  • + 3
 @dirtmiester: Orange's DH bikes are tipically the lightest DH bikes around. Not sure about this model but it should be the same, only heavier due to being 29" of course.
  • + 1
 People may need to read this article.
dirtmountainbike.com/gear/bike-reviews/downhill-bikes/the-downhill-bike-test-2018-conclusion

The bike was considered too light to hold its line, which is why they are experimenting with how much weight is to be added. Again, this is a Strange, not an Orange. That implies, this is a prototype/testbed, not a production model. Once it hits production (as an Orange), it will be tweaked to have the desired weight (by adding structural material, not just weights).
  • - 1
 @vinay: That would be really stupid. I don't believe that. They will make the bike as light as possible for a given desired strength. There really is no such thing as a downhill bike that is too light. That's not just me saying that, but through the years I have read multiple pro dh'ers saying the same in interviews. There is a desire for lightness. It's fine that someone might wish to experiment with weights but if you can handle the bike, lighter is always better.
  • + 2
 @DavidGuerra: I think there is a lot of weight in the argument that DH bikes can be too light. But perhaps it’s more an issue of sprung/ unsprung weight with the DH bikes having recently shed sprung weight in the frames. Perhaps (from previous comments, don’t know much about orange myself) it’s a similar case that Oranges bikes are also a bit too light. I’m a small person and ride like a slow idiot but even I know my bike can be too light to feel good when speeds start to peak.
  • + 1
 @iqbal-achieve: Well if someone experiences that, who am I to say that it isn't a thing. I never found my enduro bike too light when descending any type of downhill. Also stabilization for me comes from the gyroscopic effect of the wheels. Especially 29" dh wheels, that's a lot of spinning mass. And it's an effect that increases with speed.
  • + 1
 @DavidGuerra: much like many things in mtb, consumers demand the same equipment that the pros ride. But they have no ability to go even half the speed the pros do and probably don't even have the ability to get down a pro race track with walking or going around the features. Then they scratch their heads at some product design or feature made so the pros go faster, say they don't ever need it and then chalk it up to being a marketing gimmick and a way to charge more for something.
  • + 1
 @RedRedRe: my orange 324 weighs in at just over 31lb
  • + 7
 According to a recent article in Dirt Mag, when compared to the competition the weight excess of the Commençal Supreme DH V4.2 has a beneficial effect on riding. The V4.2 frame is certainly heavy but well balanced.
  • + 1
 Link?

I always thought this might be helping their racers, particularly Cecile and Myriam (since females tend to weigh less). Metals win medals :>.
  • + 5
 "small tires better...no actually big tires better..." followed by "lighter is better...no wait, heavier is better - best to add some unnecessary weight".

It's pretty easy here to see why your average mountain bike enthusiast gets frustrated, bitter, and jaded about the industry.

I guess I'd better put a bag of nuts and bolts in my SWAT hole then.
  • + 7
 CatEye Volt 1700: 1700 lumens and lasts for 150 hours. How long does it last at maximum power (1700 lumens)? How many lumens to last for 150 hours?
  • + 4
 High:1700 Lm, 2 hrs; Medium: 500 Lm, 5 hrs; Low: 200 Lm, 15 hrs; Hyper Constant: 200 / 1700 Lm, 12 hrs; Flashing: 200 Lm, 150 hrs

pulled from website
  • + 7
 All around the world today the kilo is the measure. A kilo is one thousand grams, easy to remember.
  • + 2
 16oz in a pound
  • + 2
 @t1000: po(ozozozozozozozozozozozozozozozoz)und
  • + 3
 @t1000: just 20 more to a ki
  • + 2
 @patnugent:
It's simple mathematics!
  • + 3
 @watermouse Once you got the funds you got the panties, man!
  • + 1
 yup interesting that they felt they had to explain that 1K (g) = 1000 (g) maybe for our Southern brethren they should have also explained that it = 2.2lbs I find it curious that we weigh our bikes in decimal lbs, weight weeny talk is in grams, and wheels are inches.
  • + 8
 can they make the ballast weights out of carbon? you know, to save weight.
  • + 3
 Very interesting to see this additional weight Idea coming more to the fore. I've never really understood the obsession some have to reduce weight from their DH frames. I wonder if any of the top teams have experimented with this notion at all - clearly, it wouldn't go down all that well with the marketing department if, for example, a V10 with 2kg strapped to the BB started posting faster times than an unweighted version!
  • + 4
 Weight will be more efficient if located at the right spot, so still plenty of marketing opportunities! Yeee!!
  • + 1
 @t1000: back to 20kgs bikes we go
  • + 3
 I think it depends a lot on the bike and style of rider some bikes and some riders pop and jump a lot better than others, like a session vs supreme or V10. I think on the session for a flighty rider weight would be a really bad idea but for a point and shoot guy riding a sled like the new supreme 29er (myself haha) the weight really might have something to do with the overall stability of that bike through the rough.
  • + 1
 @t1000: Somewhere in the taint area of the rider's shorts
  • + 5
 Schwalbe always had a knack for ironically naming their tyres, but, as a physicist, i reckon that Eddie Current is the best one so far...perfectly suited for eMTB Big Grin
  • + 5
 An Orange 329 with Gemini Pollux handlebars and Cane Creek Titanium Cranks. Solid platinum ballasts weights
  • + 2
 "The lights' batteries are interchangeable and with the biggest battery a single light unit can produce up to 1200 lumens."

Cool!

"Adding a second light in the mount you can double your potential output."

OK, I guess math still works

"They're expected to go on sale Autumn 2019 next year"

What?? We're announcing /lights/, the one product that practically doubles in capability every year or so, more than a year out??
  • + 3
 "...They're expected to go on sale Autumn 2019 next year and will cost from $99.95..."

Seriously - they are promoting a product 12 months out???!!!
  • + 1
 14 months*
  • + 1
 yes, that's how trade shows usually work. Companies show their new product to dealers. dealers place orders. Company adds extra quantities for reorders and so on and orders materials from suppliers. Next step production, than shipping to company warehouse tahn shipping to dealer... dealer puts it on the shelves and customer can buy it. a year has passed... i know this model sucks but that's what it is for a regular non-direct-to-consumer brand. This is also one of the reasons why big shops like chain reaction cycles can offer better prices on their house brand product. they can cut all that crap and might even get an off season production slot at the factory giving them a further price advantage.
  • + 1
 I'm mildly confused, pinkbike. I came here for the comments on the Orange (as is tradition) in order to revel in how f*gly it is. All you guys ever talk about are weights. No respect for customary behaviour, I gather.......? Razz
  • + 2
 Make ugliest modern bike, add ballast weights, Orange.
  • + 1
 Something must have gone wrong in our space continuum. We are now adding weights to bikes? I guess you can get all technical and scientific adding metal plates....or just enjoy life and get fatter if you want more out of your suspension curve.
  • + 1
 you always have to take pictures of Orange's from far away to hide the ugly welds. Maybe try leaving single pivot to make a better bike instead of lets add weights like its a bobsled.
  • + 3
 1700 lumens, wireless, with replaceable batteries, attached to the integrated GoPro mount on my lid. FTW!!
  • + 4
 So what you're saying is to just add a water bottle for DH performance?
  • + 1
 One Liter water bottle. Job done.
  • + 1
 Adds a pound of weight at the highest point of the bike. It's very popular now. Or add weight to the back of the bike also very popular. I prefer to put the weight near the BB . This is what the Orange bike is doing.
  • + 3
 If you are going to add weight to a bike you may as well add a motor for the climbs?
  • + 1
 "The knobs on the front tyre are direction-specific and run vertically along the tyre."

Can you explain:
1)What is direction-specific about that tread?
2)What does "vertically along the tyre" mean?
  • + 1
 1. It's a poor use of wording (which I have now updated), but the knobs are best suited to turning rather than stopping or accelerating. Compare the knobs on the front tyre to the rear tyre that has knobs more designed to stopping or accelerating.

2. Vertically along the tyre means the knobs run in the same direction as the tyre rotates rather than horizontally across the tyre. Once again check out the rear tyre for context.

Cheers.
  • + 1
 @alexcgevans: Ah, got it, thanks!
  • + 0
 That orange bike reminds me of old school race bikes from way back in the day.
I wish they would look at progressing at some point as they were desirable 10 or more years ago.
I suppose the 222 was the last good (relative) orange that was built that could perform with the fast bikes.
  • + 2
 You don't fix what's good already. The only disadvantage of this design is a less optimized suspension curve, but that can be fixed at the shock itself. So as shock technology advances, this design actually moves more and more to the foreground.
  • + 4
 So is it an Orange 229 or 329?
  • + 9
 329 - sorry, the '2' and '3' keys are very close!
  • + 1
 @alexcgevans: Haha, it's all good dude!
  • + 4
 if only my pork belly have similar function...
  • + 0
 It sure is a debatable idea, adding weight to the BB. It's true that it will make things easier for the rider, since the weight will stabilize the frame and he won't have to react as much. However this is also a bad thing, because that weight is also dead weight in a way. The bike still moves and reacts as a whole. The legs and arms of the rider himself are still the great suspension elements. A lighter bike overall is still easier to maneuver up and around obstacles, and to maintain traction with. The "sack of potatoes" strategy might be less tiring but it won't necessarily be faster.
  • + 2
 'All the weights together equal 1kg or 1000g.'
Pinbike editor: "You better add the equivalent weight, they'll only bitch BTL otherwise"
  • + 4
 Holy cow that 275 inch schwalbe tire!
  • + 0
 Why I would put more weight in the BB area?
Really don't understand this... if frequency is such a Thing why not change spring weight/tyre rather than placing (death) weight...

And we're seeing DH weight get closer to Enduro (light bikes)
  • + 10
 Because it is a the center of mass (approx) and low down. Tyre weight adds rotation and unsprung mass which is really bad for suspension performance and acceleration. BB is the best place for it.
  • + 1
 @MysticMCyclist: Yes, the less unsprung weight the better. And if you use an internal gearbox for example you are able to decrease unsprung weight by moving it into the bb area. But here they were purposefully adding weight, which is a completely different thing. Unsprung mass remains the same.
  • + 1
 @DavidGuerra: but this will affect the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass which may have an effect on how the ride feels.
  • + 1
 @Braindrain: There is always the weight of the rider pressing down the sprung part, so the unsprung part will always be relatively much lighter. Even if the main frame weighed zero, I don't think that's a really important factor. It may make a few things harder but there is a greater benefit to less weight overall.
  • + 1
 @MysticMCyclist: a rider weight is about 80% of total weight (bike and rider).
you weight the bike through your legs.
adding weight to your bike, is close to zero variance. ex: rider weight around 80kg, adding 1 kg will increase overall weight by 1.25%

what really changes adding this weights is reducing the vibration of the frame due to increased inertia.
eg: bike frame weight 3kg, adding 1kg will make 33% difference

it would make more sense arriving to different spring rates to achieve the same
  • + 1
 So people wont ride gearbox bike because the extra weight but, they will ride a bike with dead weight bolted to the same spot as the gearbox for?......extra performance?
  • + 1
 Common folks won't ride gearbox because it's expensive, and the pros won't ride them because their bikes don't have them. More important than the extra weight is the less unsprung weight at the rear wheel that they offer.
  • + 1
 @DavidGuerra: less unsprung weight is a good thing
  • + 1
 @rockchomper: Which is exactly what I said.
  • + 3
 eddy current - great name for a whitewater product
  • + 1
 "these knobs are perfect to deal with the braking and acceleration forces that eMTBs can generate", so Mopeds brake harder than regular MTBs?
  • + 3
 Come on Pinkbike - it's "braking", not "breaking"!
  • - 1
 It's not aggressive enough looking for me personally, It looks weak and fragile for a DH bike and given all the recent news with orange frames cracking left and right...and those 29" rims can just piss right off.
  • + 0
 I havnt heard any news about Orange frames cracking?
  • + 2
 @nordland071285: There's been quite a few posts recently on the Orange Riders facebook page of cracked frames on the newer models though they quickly get taken down by admins as it usually starts flame wars. Nothing against Orange I own one myself but I thought the issues around recent QC problems were obvious. Members were also joking about it because Orange recently had a post recruiting more staff for their warranty department...
  • + 0
 @Stravs: I was told a few years ago, that almost all orange 'cracked' frames were just paint cracks and are simply stripped and re painted FOC, or if that colour is at the back of their paint cycle (something like 8 week runs), they send you a new one out that they have already painted and scrap you old one. Cant say fairer than that
  • + 2
 @RaceReadyBraking: Hmm I'm not sure but it hasn't been the case recently they were outright cracks in really strange places with no welds like dropouts etc, People were questioning the quality of materials used and all sorts. I will say though that everyone that posted were directed to warranty and had the issue dealt with pretty quickly I believe, also people say that Orange support is legendary.
Like I say I've nothing against Orange at all just they have been getting a lot of negative attention recently and that new 329 just isn't to my personal taste it's too "erm what's the word"...feminine.
  • + 2
 Really, who runs a bigger tire on the rear than the front???
  • + 1
 If Ballasts become a thing, I'll use an axe head as a chainring bashplate. With obligatory matched with beard and flanny.
  • + 1
 Orange, I have a better solution for you. A Diablous crank!
  • + 1
 That weight thing is funny ,does wearing a saint crank counts ?
  • + 1
 Of course. Also, get the heaviest pedals and shoes that you can find! Haha.
  • + 1
 I want that orange asap. The penny saving starts today
  • + 1
 Burgers, Beer, and Burritos: the #1 way to add sprung mass.
  • + 1
 how about a booby-toaster?
  • + 1
 “Eddy Currents”

They’ve got some electricians over at Schwalbe.
  • + 1
 a heavier bike can ride better on rougher tracks
  • + 1
 that lights on the gopro box is a great idea!
  • + 1
 Let's split the difference and go with Orange 2.5_29
  • + 1
 I use beer and burgers to adjust my weight
  • + 1
 Turn that 9 upside down and you'd have a sale Orange
  • + 1
 *braking.
  • - 1
 Dated suspension design on an overcomplicated heavy bike, no thanks. E-bikes you mean crap underpowered MX bikes.
  • + 2
 We built an orange alpine up in the shop with the only carbon being the bars for around £2500 less than RRP on a top spec Santa cruz nomad cc and the orange came in just over 2lbs lighter. Been abused by a 20 stone + rider for years and not a single broken component. And they come with a race warranty
  • + 0
 What rim width are the Eddie Currents mounted on?

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