Fox's New Live Valve Spotted - Eurobike 2018

Jul 9, 2018
by Alex Evans  
The Live Valve logo - will we be seeing this on more bikes in the future or will it remain a top-tier product
The Live Valve logo - will we be seeing this on more bikes in the future or will it remain a top-tier product?

Although the official launch of the Fox Live Valve system isn't for another few weeks, Scott had their top-of-the-line Genius 900 Tuned on display at the show with the new system on show.

It looks quite sleek and integration with the bike looks reasonably well thought out. There aren't any stray cables or excessively large battery packs dangling from the bike. Details are still pretty scant, but this particular Genius runs 150mm of travel both front and back with a Fox 34 Float and Fox Float Live Valve EVOL combo.

photo

The battery pack is closed and locked onto the bike.
The battery pack is closed and locked onto the bike.
The battery back is clipped to it holder using two butterfly clips that pop open to release the cover
The battery back is clipped to it holder using two butterfly clips that pop open to release the cover
The clips sit off to the side once opened.
The clips sit off to the side once opened.

Here you can see the non-drive side of the system
Here you can see the non-drive side of the system

The batter on this bike was just a sample or blank but the general idea of the battery s underside can be clearly seen.
The battery on this bike was just a sample or blank, but the general idea of the battery's underside can be clearly seen.
Underneath the battery there is an electronic connector.
Underneath the battery, there is an electronic connector.

The live valve system has a dual piggy pack that s connected to the battery back and brain.
The live valve system has a dual piggy pack that's connected to the battery back and brain.

The rest of the shock looks like a standard Kashima coated Float.
The rest of the shock looks like a standard Kashima coated Float.

The cables routed to and from the shock sensors and brain are tidy.
The cables routed to and from the shock, sensors and brain are tidy.

photo
photo

The fork s Live Valve system is attached to both the crown and the fork s brace.
The fork's Live Valve system is attached to both the crown and the fork's brace.

The Fox 34 s top cap is wired up to the battery and brain.
The Fox 34's top cap is wired up to the battery and brain.
The rear of the fork s arch
The rear of the Fox 34's arch

The cable routing on Scott s Genius with Fox s Live Valve.

photo
The cable routing on Scott's Genius with Fox's Live Valve.

Scott Genius 900 Tuned with Fox Live Valve

To find out what Fox's Live Valve system does, check out RC's first look from 2015.

MENTIONS: @foxracingshox


Posted In:
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144 Comments
  • 155 16
 "It looks incredibly sleek and integration with the bike looks well thought out"
No it doesn't. It looks like an add-on. It looks like the engineers and the designers had a fight.
Engineers won.
With the size of carbon downtubes, this should be internally integrated.
Not that I'll ever be able to afford one anyway, but if I could I'd want it to look pretty!
Or is it just a bolt on so everyone knows you've got one?
  • 57 12
 If engineers lost every fight, imagine how awful literally everything would be... I personally care about the way my bike rides more than how it looks.
  • 29 2
 @Fishergreen: but in this case, it's not one or the other... we could have had both. Clean integration and functionality. I don't think I'd get great odds if I placed a bet that next year all this additional junk will be hidden away.
  • 27 4
 I'd go so far as to say it looks terrible. Like a data acquisition system. The thing you take off the bike as soon as you've got what you need. The fork integration is particularly poor. There's always a brake cable coming up from a fork. It passes by the brace, and not a million miles from the top of one leg. Surely a bit of cable gathering could have been done, along with some sleeker connectors that didn't come straight out of a RadioShack catalogue...
  • 22 4
 No. Managers/sales person won!

"I want electronic suspension! I dont care how you do it, just make one!"

Engrs: "Here you go, as long as it works right?"

Thats how you get a half-assed job.
  • 3 1
 @dominic54: you're right, and it seems as easy as swapping the damper to the brake side. That's it! Cables gathered!
  • 12 0
 @dominic54: With that cable coming out of the top of the fork leg, one crash and it will be ripped out. And cheap to fix too I bet!!
  • 2 0
 @Fishergreen: ... @crankbrothers
  • 6 3
 Simple. Surely it will just run off the same battery as the Ebike's motor?
  • 12 1
 Specialized can SWAT that thing in for you.
  • 4 1
 Exactly. There is no reason for such poor integration. The fork cable could have been nicely routed to a small battery in the steer tube, the shock to one in the DT/ST and the bar remote should have just used one of the huge number of new super efficient bluetooth chips. Bluetooth then also has the advantage of then allowing Fox to write smartphone apps for data collection and setup.
  • 5 0
 Thankfully there are some engineers out there doing their part to hide this mess. Take the Pivot Mach 5.5 for example. That bike was released over a year ago and designed with LIVE in mind. Upper shock mount is wider to hide the battery in and there is clean specific routing and mounts for the cables/accelerometers. Scott really could have used some of that attention to detail here.
  • 4 0
 Pivot Cycles has a Fox Live opening built in to its Mach 5.5 frame, and that frame has been out for over a year now. So ya, Scott could have planned this design a bit better.
  • 2 0
 @bradwin2: looks like great minds think a like hahaha
  • 3 0
 @Fishergreen: At top dollar tho, I need both! Looks/aesthetic factors are huge when the wallet opens wide!
  • 4 0
 This is sick! You don't have to sacrifice bike kinematics to achieve both a good DH and pedaling platform. Yes it's expensive and not perfect, but this really opens up the door for innovation. By the way, how would you make one system that worked with all carbon frames? All mfg would need the same orifice to stow the system...that's a tall order at best I'd guess.
  • 1 0
 "but if I could I'd want it to look pretty!"

Fashion over function: you chose fashion.
  • 2 0
 When it comes to my air pressure, I usually just set it and forget it. Kind of like a rotisserie oven from the 90's....
  • 3 0
 @Fishergreen: Full disclosure; I'm an engineer. An engineer should design function leading form. I do not believe this does. If it were more integrated, it would work better, at least less snags and lower weight distribution. If somethings 'looks right', it often performs that way.
  • 1 1
 I want a live valve and I want it now! My bike must have more cables wrapped around the front end than your sister.
  • 3 0
 @ski-or-die:

I thought the same thing, why couldn't they just do a SWAT box type storage for this system. Instead it stands out like a 300 lb female Walmart shopper in bright green spandex pants and a medium American flag shirt at Nordstroms.

I have a Scott Genius LT Tuned and I love it but this thing is a poor attempt
  • 1 0
 It has been done before, in 1998 on the k2/Proflex 4000. https://mbaction.com/down-the-trail-proflex-4000/
  • 1 0
 Di2 is a few Generations old, and only now is being integrated into the frame.

Give it time, it costs a lot of $ for frame builders to change, 2020 models maybe.


"Or is it just a bolt on so everyone knows you've got one?" - this
  • 2 0
 @CanBLine: My guess is that modifying carbon molds is to great of an expense for Scott at this product life cycle point and will have to wait next one i.e. new generation of Genius, that is 2-3 years from now. Which will probably coincide with a development version of this Fox Live Valve. So props to all beta testers/early adopters.
  • 65 3
 Time will come, when we can control suspension characteristics with our mind.

"Oh here comes that big drop to flat..."

***Thinks - Low Rebound...

"Woohoo! Nailed it! Thank you Fox Brain Remote Live Valve!"

-dentist
  • 47 0
 "Siri, open up two clicks HSC" Big Grin
  • 5 0
 I heard it makes coffee on voice command
  • 31 2
 Dentists love hucking off curbs.
  • 5 4
 @Boardlife69: savage!
  • 12 0
 “But you must think in Russian”
  • 9 2
 @Fulgacian: OK, ORDERING LARGE PINEAPPLE AND ANCHOVY PIZZA
  • 8 8
 Aaah, there it is again - the very old, very boring and definitely not anywhere close to funny dentist “humour” kicking in again. I wonder if it’s possible to move on from this. And no I’m not a dentist.
  • 4 0
 @Stampers: Wow - never thought I'd see a Firefox reference on here.
  • 4 9
flag loganm2977 (Jul 9, 2018 at 8:26) (Below Threshold)
 @stuie321: in the US it’s an accurate stereotype. Becoming a dentist is more about finances than caring about the patients well being. There are no scholarships to dental schools, and a years tuition hovers around $40,000 usd. I personally know dentists that buy rare and expensive vintage guitars without having any idea how to play them. A ‘62 Stratocaster should only be owned by someone that will actually play the damn thing.

I will say the actual dentist cyclists I know that buy nice bikes do ride, but yes, their high end gear far out strips their ability. Also, they generally buy nice road and xc bikes.

Not a funny joke though, and the personality type that cares more about a scratch free $10,000 mtb is certainly not limited to dentists.
  • 2 0
 @Fulgacian: Hopefully it doesent come with a clapper Big Grin
  • 4 1
 @stuie321: nah it’s not about dentists and I hope you know it.
  • 2 0
 @themountain: I had that once, it took forever to get rid of. Needless to say, I didn't go back and see her again.
  • 3 0
 Your numbers are way off. Dental school in the USA is around a 100k a year. New dentists graduate with a massive debt burden, and end up working for corporate dental practices as indentured servants. Your stereotype is not accurate @loganm2977:
  • 1 0
 @Boardlife69: Jus' send'r bud, eeeoow!
  • 47 7
 Ffs stop putting electronics on bikes,that’s why we go off-road - to get away from it!.
  • 17 15
 speak for yourself I ride my bike with GPS enabled smartwatch connected to my phone from which I listen to music on wireless headphones you may not like it that way but different people have different reasons to ride a bike and enjoy different things
  • 3 0
 Or just, you know, buy one of their other models...
  • 7 10
 @Asmodai: you should just stick to video-games
  • 5 5
 @cliffdroper:
why? because you are so close minded that you can't imagine different people enjoying different things?
  • 2 0
 Hell yeah!
  • 6 0
 @Asmodai: sort your life out.
  • 2 1
 @thenotoriousmic: why? what is wrong with my life according to you?
  • 6 1
 @Asmodai: You're supposed to carry a mini speaker and blast tasteless shit music for the whole Forrest to hear.
  • 2 0
 @Clarkeh: now your talking.
  • 29 0
 What does it do?
  • 7 0
 This: www.pinkbike.com/news/exclusive-ride-report-fox-live-valve-active-suspension-system.html
  • 2 3
 @mikekazimer: One word: Side-by-side-video-comparison-of-X2-vs-this! Please!
  • 2 2
 It took them three years?
  • 3 0
 ...the thing that gave it away is how youthful RC looks in that previous article...

Seriously though if he rode it in 2015 what’s taken so long? It sure wasn’t hiding the battery or improving the styling!
  • 2 0
 It greatly extends the time between their service intervals... oh nvm, that’s not important.
  • 2 0
 @Altron5000:

Yeah, it's a little thing called R&D, testing, refinement, more testing, more refinement, roll out of frame design requirements for manufacturers... and since not everyone would buy it, it's not on the top of their development list... you know, priorities.
  • 2 0
 hoping this take off and gets much bigger so water bottles don't fit in the frames anymore
  • 21 0
 Even a water bottle looks more sleek and integrated than this.
  • 3 2
 No water bottle mount, I'm out.
  • 7 0
 This looks awesome!! It makes a lot more sense than controlling shifting electronically because the role of suspension on a bike is actually complex enough that this could help. I always saw di2 as pretty useless because I could match it's performance with my thumb...but not this.
  • 10 3
 How about a 170mm dropper instead?
  • 5 1
 Or 200
  • 3 0
 How about 450. Telescopic droppers are an outdated design prone to failure. I am waiting for scissor elevator dropper.
  • 3 0
 Saw a dude on Crested Butte Enduro in like 2015 with this on his bike. It has taken forever to come to market. I want non-newtownian fluid so it can be changed via voltage variation, not shim stack changes!
  • 2 0
 The genius has a sizeable opening under the downtube with a di2 battery holder in the cover. There is an access port under the shock for the normal nude twinlock cable to go internal. So yes, they could easily have hidden all this away but they also need to show the system. So you can see whats going on. I have a dollar bet that if scott have the 2019 genius ultimate spec'd with live valve it will be hidden away.
  • 2 0
 In the past Fox was working with Shimano E Tube - but those connectors look different (no place for the removal tool to hook into).
I hope i'm wrong - we need more industry working together on this (and everything), not more versions and incompatible cables and incompatible software and batteries that won't work across platforms.
  • 1 0
 yeah youre right
  • 1 0
 I don't crash much and Iv nothing against tech stuff I'm a geek at heart. But that fork wire/top is gonna get ripped of. I hope its on some sort of quick pop release system to save itself.
The battery could do we getting shoved inside a steerer tube or something looks like cr@p as is
  • 3 2
 Like it or not, this is where the next game changing innovation is coming from. The first few iterations will be clunky and will be met with the usual resistance, but 5 -10 years from now (I hope sooner) it will change the mountain biking experience forever, and for the better. I hope they sell many thousands of these units to drive the cost down and fuel the innovation. This is an area of better investment than electronic shifting.
  • 5 0
 Just what Scott needed, more cables to wrap around their frames.
  • 1 0
 the S&M of the MTB world
  • 3 0
 We all know the slowest guy out on the trail is the one with all the electronics and wires hanging off his bike. Bring on the neg props nerds Smile
  • 2 0
 Absolutely zero point in doing electronics in suspension if they still have cables attached to it. Love the intent, but the execution is really poor. Go wireless, or don't go at all.
  • 1 0
 Next time they will - stupid not to.
  • 1 0
 Latency is probably the reason for using wires. If I remember the 2015 article correctly Fox have been aiming for a system that reacts in milliseconds, much faster than the Lapierre e.i. thing. Wireless is almost always slower.
  • 1 0
 Additional batteries are needed to do that too. I'd take messy wires over nursing more than one battery.
  • 1 0
 This kind of semi-active suspension is working in cars and motorbikes for years. But in cars and on motorbikes rider does not changing centre of gravity so much like on MTB does... So it can work well in some situations, but totally doesn't work in some others... It´s a gimmick :-) If you want real active suspension, then you must scan terrain ahead and adjust shocks before bump... And still there is rider with different thoughts how to run over this bump :-)
  • 1 0
 This could be that game changing product the industry has needed since droppers appeared. Electronic drivetrains turned out to not make much of a difference, but being able to quickly adjust suspension for different types of terrain certainly changes a lot.
  • 1 0
 I have battery chargers for my phone, my gopro, adaptors in my vehicle when I've forgotten to change them at home and now they want me.to plug my shocks up to a charger?

It's all I can do to remember my fracking helmet. You sent me to charge up my bike so the shocks work? Fuuuuu!!!!!
  • 1 0
 You have more than one shock?
  • 1 0
 @onemanarmy: front shocks/fork/forks...rear shock...shocker...shockster...stroker...fokker
  • 6 2
 That is gonna be so expensive
  • 3 0
 I've updated the article with additional images of the front cable routing. Cheers!
  • 1 0
 what is that stuff they use to bundle the front cables?
  • 1 0
 Soon it will all be electronic and running off the same battery - Drivetrain/shifting, servo motor dropper post, active suspension, lights.... brake by wire??? (that last one sounds terrifying)
  • 1 0
 Wouldn't the suspension constantly be changing and feeling different from one moment to another? That sounds super sketcgy to me if that’s the case...sends gap and bucked onto head etc
  • 2 0
 I guess if you're Fox, you've gotta go electronic. if you're me, thankfully, you don't
  • 1 0
 Amazing fox can spend millions on developing self adjusting electrical suspension but can’t engineer a decent ifp that lasts more than a few months at best ????
  • 15 13
 I will never ride with a battery on my bike unless it connected to a light.Cool stuff though.
  • 10 19
flag Asmodai (Jul 9, 2018 at 3:47) (Below Threshold)
 why lights are fine but this isn't?

double standards much?
  • 9 4
 @Asmodai: Well I might use a battery maybe twice a year instead of having a battery to worry about every ride.Make sense?
  • 6 14
flag Asmodai (Jul 9, 2018 at 4:05) (Below Threshold)
 @nug12182: no it doesn't because you won't have to charge it more than once every couple of months
  • 18 1
 @Asmodai: Shhhh, it's just that candles are not that practical on a bike.
  • 14 2
 @Asmodai: can you ride without light at night ? No.
Can you ride without this ? Yes.
So, very much like politicians you did not use "double standard" correctly.
  • 4 9
flag Asmodai (Jul 9, 2018 at 4:18) (Below Threshold)
 @zede: his argument was only about batteries
  • 6 0
 and your phone, watch, gps, hrm, wireless headphones...
  • 3 0
 @Asmodai @nug12182 : to each their own / variety is the spice of life!

I don't have any of those gadgets apart from a phone which I don't use for anything riding related apart from checking location/map. I only sometimes listen to music when I ride on a relatively old school mp3 player which lasts 30h+ playback.

And that's not because I'm anti-tech or anti-progress or whatever, right now I'm on a multiple screen 3D graphics workstation and a tablet with amp powered HD650s over my head.
I just don't like the idea of electronics on my bike!
  • 1 0
 what about the e-motor, surely that needs batteries too?
  • 7 0
 @Asmodai: obviously there are a multitude of alternatives to battery powered lights when it comes to riding at night, personally I think candles are not manly enough for me. I have trained a team of trail bats to guide me at night.
  • 1 5
flag Asmodai (Jul 9, 2018 at 6:43) (Below Threshold)
 @Kickmehard: your point?
  • 9 0
 @Asmodai: I'm a bat salesman, trying to drum up business.
  • 2 0
 I will only add e-shifting and e-shocks when they are powered by a small dynamo hub.
External power source=E-bike=motor bike
  • 3 0
 Thanks very much, now what does it do????
  • 1 2
 I guess it will adjust dampers according to the track, via connecting with Strava, then guessing what's ahead based on shared rides of the trail, double checking through GPS+GLONAS and accelerometers, and then by overly complex maths, do some electromagnetic preload of the shim stacks. Wink
  • 2 1
 Electronic control over adjustments. I am unsure of details, but my guess is your able to create different user made or preset patches for different terrain and go thru them via a control. So instead of a simple lockout or climb mode the rider can Choose “jump trail mode”, “fire road mode”, “it’s wet and i’m Feeling laZy”, “it’s wet on race day mode”, and so on and so on.
  • 1 0
 @Fulgacian: Hehe, that's probably a touch futuristic still. Imagine you're in a valley with poor GPS reception and it snaps to the nearest road making your suspension *think* it's smooth and firming it up right when it shouldn't Big Grin

Or, or...when it's actually working -
GPS data downloaded...
strava data acquired...
real time speed...
vibration frequency and amplitude - check
initializing algorithm, connecting to data center - successful
receiving data...Session time 0.1ms.
Applying result...*One Click Rebound Applied*. Big Grin


It's probably not that either, but it's kinda funny still.
  • 1 0
 I’m totally wrong it’s automated suspension like you see in supercars
  • 2 0
 Fork tells the shock when to open up.
  • 3 0
 accelerometer in fork detects impacts, solenoids in fork and shock open and close dampers in immediate response to terrain. I'm curious what can happen when back wheel isn't tracking behind front.
  • 2 0
 My first crash with this system, looking down I see that cable ripped from the front fork. Connector bent, Now what?
  • 6 1
 you do the same thing when your brake hose rips off
  • 3 0
 Lapierre ei shock by fox ?
  • 1 0
 Wasn't ei basically a servo driving the standard adjuster?
  • 1 0
 So the industry ditches 2X and 3X drivetrains (and their added range and flexibility) in the name of 'simplicity', and then get this. Wow.
  • 1 0
 Just another toy to take up space where what you really need goes A Water bottle
  • 2 0
 Gloss finish crowns are pretty exciting
  • 1 0
 Could you guys take some closer pics...I can't see it! Seriously, not one single pic of the full bike?!?!
  • 2 0
 So this is similar to Specialized Brain suspension.. but battery operated?
  • 1 0
 Odd that FOX hasn't done more to refine the packaging of this system. Looks a mess.
  • 1 0
 How can the fork react to a bump it has already rolled over?
Sounds like a really expensive remote lockout system.
  • 2 0
 Noleen Smartshock much?
  • 1 0
 How about a picture of the controller at the handlebar?
  • 1 0
 No controller on the handlebar. It's with the battery.
  • 1 0
 Should've called it Enduro Valve....
  • 2 1
 "I have to wait 30 minutes before i can ride, i gotta charge my shocks"
  • 1 0
 Shocks? Wait? Do you sit around in the morning waiting for your phone to charge or do you charge it while you sleep?
  • 2 0
 If you really have that problem you're also probably the guy who does their maintenance in the car park with someone else's tools while the other people want to already be riding.
  • 1 0
 You lost me at “brain”. Immediate turn-off.
  • 2 1
 Of course this would be on a Scott bike.
  • 1 1
 Rockshox/Lapierre did the e-shock a few years ago in 2012. It didn't really get much attention from riders. Redo 2.0.
  • 1 0
 In Fox's own words Ride Your F#%king Bike
  • 2 0
 @icedpirate Different Fox, but agreed
  • 1 0
 @ajdriscoll: Doh! :-D
  • 1 0
 What does it actually do?
  • 1 0
 ELI5 How this is different than the spesh brain shock system?
  • 2 0
 The sensors on the fork can communicate with the damper on the shock.
  • 1 0
 Looks like an abomination
  • 1 0
 thinking bikes would become cleaner (look).....
  • 1 0
 Man, What The Fucck Is That? Cables cables cables. Psh.
  • 1 0
 Looks like it would be a perfect match for an eBike.
  • 1 0
 NONSENSE!
  • 1 0
 Needz Moar Cables!!!!
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