Evolve Announces Canadian Made Origin LT

 I dig the angle of the dangle

 @cuban-b: it’s inversely proportionate to the heat of my meat

 Its just like the trek full floating suspension design

 @Kenroth33: It's just a Horst link.

 WHERE IS JA?!

 @nyhc00: which is directly proportional to the worth of my girth.... ok i think there's a point where our alliterations go too far... or IS there?!?

 @cuban-b: if this is wrong, I don't want to be right. haha

 @jray152: what would Ja do?!?

 It looks ok because it is parallel to the down tube.
Pivot’s is parallel to the fork, which just looks wrong aesthetically for some reason.

 “Could some body please find Ja Rule get a hold of this mudda fudda so I can make sense of all this… where is Ja” - Chappelle

 Love to see it. We've come full circle where the major companies are charging so much for their Chinese shit that clever upstarts are figuring out "well, people are willing to pay $$$, why don't we just build these here, create some jobs, some industrial capacity, not support autocrats and slave labor?" It's a beautiful thing.

 Where is Ja?!

 Or you could just buy a Devinci? I mean, thats who's probably making the frame.

 @jdejace: as far as I know, most frames are made in taiwan. And they are far from shit. These factories have a lot of knowledge in manufacturing frames and are probably better at it than most in western countries.

 @bashhard: I have nothing against Taiwan. I do think there is value in building manufacturing capacity and jobs near home.

Lots of frames made in China and Vietnam. Santa Cruz, Yeti, Ibis.. It's not a quality issue. I just don't like sending money to places with their human rights record when I can easily avoid it.

 @ratedgg13: Only some aluminum Devinci models are made in Canada (not the aluminum Django or Troy).

 @cedric-eveleigh: this is right. They've been decreasing the bikes made domestically and, with the exception of the Wilson, all of the bikes that would interest PB users now come from overseas, aluminum models included.

 @eebsteez: actually it's the exact opposite. They've been re-onshoring their production in the last few years, and more models than ever are Canadian made.

 @ratedgg13: I purchased my Hendrix in 2017.

2017: Wilson, Spartan, Troy, Django, Hendrix, Kobain... list goes on I'm sure.

2022: Wilson, Marshall, Kobain. Are there others I'm missing? Not sure if we're counting the old run 2022 Spartan AL's.

 @eebsteez: A bunch of their old alu bikes were discontinued in favour of carbon - hence dropping the total list made in Canada, but they're now working on reversing that. I think you'll see over the next while that a whole bunch of frames/models are refreshed with Canadian made alu options.

 @ratedgg13: hope so. Love having a Canadian-built frame from a major brand. Bear in mind, the company recently chose consciously to build the current aluminum Troy frame overseas.

 @ratedgg13: "working on reversing that" really doesn't sound like "more models than ever" buddy.

 @j-t-g: so because a company previously decided to offshore production and focus on carbon, they can no longer change their minds and return manufacturing to Canada and emphasize aluminum? I guess they didn't get the memo.

 @ratedgg13: Of course they can! But the statement "more models than ever" appears to be a GOAL rather than the present reality if they are indeed "working on reversing that". If not, they would have already reversed that.

 Meanwhile, that linkage has different gaps on each side. Maybe it should be made in Taiwan.

 @ratedgg13: most likely Yess - they made Cove back in the day and make BMX frames.

 @regdunlop:
Not sure where yess is located but I was told by evolve they.were going to be manufactured in surrey B.C

 @jdejace: Big brands and importers paid the Chinese peanuts then sell the monkeys they got for human kidneys.

 @Theplumber2459: Yess is in Surrey- hopefully these are lighter than the old Coves - they were beasts

 @regdunlop: shoulda went with “Yess Surrey!”

I’ll grab my coat

 That might even be in Canadian dollars too...

 Preach it brother

 Look like an EXT coil on the 2D CAD drawing

 There are other Fox options on the website.

 I must have missed something - why do we suddenly hate the X2?

 @KJP1230: because it can't seem to figure out how to keep the air outside of the oil. It's basically the new 2008 double barrel.

 @IMeasureStuff: 100% is a Storia

 @kiddlivid: yep, 3 blown seals, all in different locations, in about 4 months of total riding. I now have empty beer cans more useful than it in the shop

 @KJP1230: Own one and you'll find out eventually...

 @boozed: I've owned 4 and never had an issue with them. Alot of hate for them on Pinkbike but all the riders I know with them love them, and ride often and aggressively.

 @Daaaaaaaan: Yup, I'm with Daaaaaaaan, same situation, have owned multiple and I would say most locally are riding X2s. Very few, if any issues that I've heard of...except for the "clicky" roller bearing eyelet.

 #firstworldproblemsdouchebag

 I’m running a dhx2 in my stumpy evo, loving it but a more progressive shock would definitely be an upgrade. I often have harsh bottom outs and it requires annual rebuilds. Even with these complaints it rides amazingly well.

 @KJP1230: ive blown up 4 thats why

 @Daaaaaaaan: a friend of mine is at more that 3 fails on his X2 that came with his Canyon Torque. Last fail was the foot eyelet that separated from the shaft. Never seen that before in nearly 20years of riding DH. Never liked Fox which I always found to be overprice for the same garbage than the other and the X2 debacle just reinforced that belief. And also their 36/Z1 that fails wiper seals as soon as they see a 220mm rotor in a 5m radius

 @Daaaaaaaan: current gen (2021+)?

 @robnow: solve the clicking roller bearing with RWC needle bearing kit… no comment on the x2.

 @Daaaaaaaan: All 2021+ models?

Mine lasted 20 hours before the damper ingested air.

 @Daaaaaaaan: it's called a "bandwagon"! Everyone rides together here in the PB comments, LOL

 @code26: well, gotta ride something. Don't have time for bikes if we're on here.

 Mine has had to go back to fox twice in less than a year.

 @KJP1230: it’s not ‘sudden’ to hate the fact that DIY air can seal service ain’t possible on the X2. For riders that ride a lot, that means $200-400 servicing cost per YEAR.

 @baschyboy: order a Cascade link now.

 @KJP1230: cause it has ok for 1 run and then need to be serviced, fox have better options

 @kiddlivid: my good old dhx air 5.0 from 09 is still going strong with only 1 rebuild and minimal maintenance in 13 years. Apparently they don't make them like they used to.

 @baschyboy: Ermmm, all shocks require annual rebuilds dude. The problem with dhx2's is that they currently mostly seem to need weekly rebuilds

 @mhoshal: 1 rebuild in 13 years? Your shock hates you. And has probably been so full of dirt and grime for so long that you've forgotten how good it could feel if it was working properly.

 @gabriel-mission9: honestly you're probably right lol I'm gonna get a full rebuild this winter when I send my 40 in to be serviced.

 @gabriel-mission9: We’re talking hardtail performance!

 @jdejace: But we don't want Fox shocks, we want 2023 Rockshox shocks with HBO!

 It's an absolute joke that a catalogue bike brand would have higher quality frames than Nicolai.

 @spicysparkes: or Kavenz

 I have the same text copied to the clipboard. Nicolai, Liteville, Knolly, Raaw, doubtless others... Seems like the marketing team won this round.

 Yea om the site it mentions a flip chip.

 @iridedj: oh nice, Sweet, sounds like a bike i want haha

 I guess proportional front and rear center growth along sizes is not "proper Geo"...
Front grows 7%, rear 0%. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how is that not only lazy design/manufacturing, which for 3k I find unacceptable.

 @Uuno: The idea behind not changing the rear is to keep the bike riding similar between all sizes and keeps wheel base sensible.
When you keep pushing the RC longer you keep changing suspension leverage, For e.g when you change The rocky altitude's Wheelbase at the rear the becomes quite dead and from the time i spent on it requires a new suspension setup.
As for the whinge about lazy design/manufacturing, why would you spend the extra to please the few people from PB who are over 6ft vs the most common 5'10 sizing. medium -> large is the most common bike size.
However, having a Wheelbase flip chip at the rear axle is a good idea, infact im a huge fan of having massively adjustable bikes, 2 position flip chips are terrible idea, Give me a 15mm chip and inbetween sizes for wheelbase, Shock chips for progression and/or mullet, Something like The Patrols Headset so can dramatically change HTA - but i guess this is what id call lazy design as this gives a 1 bike scenario instead of 2 or 3, so a brand would be limiting its Market but i would also pay more for that kinda bike.

the 27.5 vs 29 debate for RC is interesting, i get why'd you'd want longer on 27.5 but at the same time short also works for suspension as its less suspension travel Arc.

 @HeatedRotor: so you want each frame size to ride the same, so that a rider could get on the wrong size bike and have identical suspension? Changing CS a bit between sizes does alter the leverage, but does very little to the characteristics of the suspension.

Flip chips etc also alter the suspension, and can in fact have a large effect on the suspension characteristics as well as geometry and leverage/travel. So why are they a benefit when proportionate CS isn't?

 @Tambo: You answerd your own question in the question itself.

the difference between 330cs and 350(taking a medium vs say an XL expectations of "growth") is huge on leverage. why would a brand want every size to Ride different ? suspension ride that is.
thats a support nightmare.

But hey if im bombing down a fire road or some sort of trail system thats straight and high speed, then hey, Big bike life but for most people thats just not going to be where they ride all the time.

Im lucky enough to ride alot of bikes just for my own personal Findings, i've ridden Most bikes available in the trail-super enduro category's at 4 different bike parks, Theres probably 1 trail in all of those four where ive said "man it would be great to Ride a bus down here"

The reason i talk about flip chips at a more extreme scale is for the sake of adjustability - so people can actually ride the same bike with the same base geo but change 1 aspect, IE a chip or chips making the chainstay longer. but being able to manually change the bike in all the ways lets you take a base line, such as this evolve and make it fit perfect, lots of bikes always have 90% good fit but lack that little bit extra.

For reference im yet to ride a Long(max i will ride given a choice is 440 on a large) CS bike thats actually made me say "this is better than those short one" they've all given me the long and lazy feeling in the back end - When i hop on anything longer than 430 i instantly feel like the back gets hung up more(thats exactly the feeling i got when i changed the Rocky altitudes Chainstay chip)

 @HeatedRotor: Thats exactly how i felt when riding my Altitude aswell.

Gotta say, i pretty much agree with that whole statement.

 @HeatedRotor: I dont normally comment on Suspension stuff on PB as most of the time the people just talk absolute rubbish.

But i have to agree with what Heated is saying.

 @noideamtber: Which is why im going to leave it there, No point trying to argue about Something that i and others have extensively tested in both directions - especially when I have nothing to prove as im the one with the data lol.

Maybe @mtbtrekracer can Explain From his WC DH Mechanic experience

 @HeatedRotor: I Dont want to be Involved haha, I've done my fair share of attempting to share my thoughts...
but thanks for the mention.

As for reference, You are 95% right, Chain stay length directly effects how your suspension reacts to Every hit, It also tends to flex alot more and it feels like the middle of the bike "sits in" more and more often - Feels like you need to run high compression and rebound to make it stand up but then comes the effects of those changes aswell.

If its any help: theres a reason most brands dont make Long chainstays... and im not getting into why.

 @noideamtber:

 @HeatedRotor: Indeed the suspension does behave differently. My M1 has two chainstay length settings and I was surprised how different the overall feel is, had to change the spring rate and damping.

And I'm also a taller dude buying an XL frame who wants a shorter chainstay... so I'm very off-trend and kinda bummed.

Keeping the back end the same pretty much keeps it as the same bike. Actually, it just occurred to me: I have two frames of same model but one is L and the other XL. Chainstays are 430 on both. Reach is 480 and 510 -ish. They feel nearly identical on descents, cornering is awesome on both, maybe even better with the 510 reach (weight is nicely forward). Happy to jump both. The longer reach is slighter harder to do a manual-type move on, which is why I definitely do not want a longer chainstay on the XL. When it comes to climbing the 480 reach feels way too short for me. 510 is now my minimum reach, personally, and with a steep-ish seat angle I have no wish for a longer chainstay.

 Yeah I have a Banshee and I f*cking hate that internal routing!! I have to put foam insine to avoid rattles and then it's so tight that I cannot take off my dropper post anymore! I am about to buy a f*cking Sram GX AXS to replace my XT just because of that fu%?#ng internal routing! Either this or I sell my bike.

 i was thinking maybe yess (used to build frames for cove & pdc racing back in the day as well as their primary stream doing bmx stuff); not sure if they're still in business.

 @xy9ine: Yeah, I think it basically has to be either Devinci or Yess.

 @xy9ine: I would think Yess... I don't know if Devinci would have excess building capacity with them bringing some frames back in house..

 Yess are still in business.

 Or maybe Chromag / Mike Truelove?

 @Loche: I would be surprised if Chromag has any involvement, we are still for their adult full suspension frame.

 @4823904823041: I think almost certainly yess, given location too

 @whitebirdfeathers: Yess the brand is done

 Just use a sensible Hub engagement and Smaller gear on the Cassette

 @HeatedRotor: or design the antisquat properly and ride whatever setup/gear you want...?

 lol ok

 Convert 2900 Canadian to euros and the float x2 evolve costs 200 euros less than the raaw with floaty

 Prototyping in Asia is quite cost effective and they are really freaking good at it. A lot of shops on this side of the ocean will want to make tooling even just to build a proto.

 It's not like the tyre will get any closer to it... what's the problem?

 I think they need cnc the bridge in the other direction yo

 @Tambo: mud

 @Smokey79: and have it hit the seat tube instead?

 @bashhard: I bet you a cup of tea at my place it won't be an issue

 @Tambo: But did they say what size tire was in the photo? The tire is already pretty close to the seatstay itself, and that can be a bigger problem.

 @st-lupo: true, best be sure your wheels are straight!

 @Tambo: you never have rocks and rock filled mud stick to your tires?

 @Kango: only time I've had it happen, it wouldn't have mattered how much clearance there was; it just snowballed. Other than that, yeah mud and stuff but never on any bike had any issue. My current bike has fairly narrow clearance, and my rear tyre does pick up a bit of gravel once in a while; it just ticks against a stay once or twice and falls out.

 I was thinking the same thing. Too good to be true?

 @TheDirkDiggler: the alpha is an open mold frame .. you could get it it from Ican and buy a bomber cr for way less. Evolve has their custom link tho which play a part ?

 @Elgaucher: they also have better hardware and faster warranty support than going from a website or AliExpress. So there is value in going for a complete from evolve

 @Elgaucher: Is that a bad thing ? It's hard to find reviews I find. I know Jordan Boostmaster had one and he sends stuff pretty hard.

 @Mouette230: not at all. I bought an Ican last season for my GF and it was fine.

 I guess it just bends around all that chaos near the lower shock mount?

Bike looks good except where the bottom of the seat tube joins the rest of the frame. Maybe that's a "prototype" solution that will get cleaned up for the production models, though.

 Yep, well done down to the details. Short seat tube, reasonably slack actual STA. I'd personally prefer longer chainstays on my XL long travel bike but at least they picked a middling length that works ok for the 3 sizes.

 Look again...

 Figured somebody else would’ve already beat me to it after seeing the first pic but, wuz thinking more like a Transition
Either way it’s a pretty sharp looking ride.