PINKBIKE FIELD TEST
Salsa Blackthorn
Words by Mike Levy, photography by Tom RichardsWhile Salsa probably isn't the first name that comes to most rider's minds when thinking of big-travel trail (or enduro) bikes, the all-new Blackthorn might change that. Salsa says that it's "Built for riding any trail anywhere with confidence," and they've spec'd it with 140mm of rear-wheel-travel, a 160mm Fox 36, 29" wheels, and geometry that wouldn't have been out of line on an enduro bike only a few years ago. Oh, and there's a hell of a lot of purple on our Carbon X01 Eagle version that costs $7,499 USD. Allergic to purple? You'll need to drop down a spec level, or go the frame-only route to get another frame color option.
With no fancypants XTR or AXS-equipped model, our test bike is the priciest Blackthorn you can get. But you don't need to drop that much coin to get one, with aluminum models starting at $3,199 USD for 12-speed Deore components, RockShox suspension, and proper Maxxis tires.
Blackthorn Details • Travel: 140mm rear / 160mm front
• Wheel size: 29"
• Head angle: 64.6-degrees
• Seat tube angle: 76.5-degrees
• Reach: 490mm (lrg)
• Chainstay length: 432mm
• Sizes: Sm, med, lrg (tested), x-lrg
• Weight: 31.9 lb / 14.5 kg (as pictured)
• Price: $7,499 USD
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www.salsacycles.com Unlike the very large majority of brands, Salsa also offers an aluminum frame/shock for $2,099 USD. With the exact same geometry as the carbon models and a bit more weight, that'd make a lot of sense for riders who have a bunch of their own parts to hang off it. If you want a carbon frame/shock instead, it'll be $3,199 USD, please.
This is an all-new platform for Salsa and the front and rear triangles are actually shared between two bikes, this 140mm Blackthorn and the 165mm-travel Cassidy, with the extra travel of the latter coming via a longer stroke shock and different link and clevis components.
Salsa has ticked all the boxes with the new design, including a clever spot to strap a tube. They’re definitely not the first to do this, but the rubber scuff guard is a nice touch that makes theirs unique. There are also a bunch of places to bolt things, which isn’t a surprise given Salsa’s long history of letting you bolt anything anywhere on their frames. Up on the top tube are threaded holes for an EXP bag or K-Edge computer mount, and the ‘Three-Pack’ mounts on the downtube let you carry a bottle, pump, and maybe the kitchen sink.
There’s one more threaded hole I know you’re gonna be excited about: The Blackthorn’s bottom bracket, which is where you’ll also find a set of ISCG 05 tabs to mount a guide or taco. The routing is also internal, and on the carbon models it passes through molded-in guides within the frame to make the job easier.
There are a couple of things to talk about at the back of the bike, including its always controversial Super Boost hub spacing. Salsa says that the 12x157mm hub lets them get a short, 432mm chainstay length while still being able to fit either 29'' x 2.6'' or 27.5'' x 3.0'' tires. You know, just in case you want to ruin the bike with 3” wide tires... Please don’t. Those short chainstays are also aluminum instead of carbon, and Salsa has incorporated a whole bunch of smartly done frame protection in the spots where you need it, including a flap that keeps stones from getting lodged between the front triangle and chainstay yoke.
Salsa’s been using Dave Weagle’s Split-Pivot suspension layout for many years now, and you’ll find it on the back of the Blackthorn as well. It’s a concentric axle pivot that’s exactly what it sounds like - the pivot literally rotates around the rear axle. The rocker link drives a clevis that wraps around the seat tube and compresses a Fox Float DPX2 to deliver 140mm.
Salsa says that Split Pivot ''
isolates pedaling and braking forces,” and they say that makes it ''
uniquely suited'' to be able to swap out the clevis, link, and the shock so riders can transform the Blackthorn into the longer-travel, 165mm Cassidy. Of course, you’ll need a longer fork as well. Making two bikes from one frame saves them a bunch of money, too.
On the geometry front, the Blackthorn gets 64.6- and 76.5-degree head and seat angles in the slacker of the two settings. If you like to tinker and know that slacker doesn't always mean better, there's also a flip-chip that can steepen the head and seat angles by 0.3-degrees and raise the bottom bracket by just 4mm. I feel like this small of an adjustment range is only there for a bike shop to say that it's adjustable but, to be fair, Salsa is far from the only brand doing this. Of course, you could use that geo adjustment to tweak the bike to better suit your 27.5'' x 3'' tires...
ClimbingThe Blackthorn looks like
a lot of trail bike, both on paper and in person, not to mention that it's obvious Salsa wanted a bike that you remember for how it goes down, not up. Not a bad strategy, especially as the purple machine still manages to be relatively decent at the latter.
With the large-sized bike sporting a 490mm reach and 64.6-degree head angle (in the slack setting), this is never going to be the one that loves tight, technical uphills. It's in those moments, when balance and having to do a 579-degree turn that's also angled straight up the mountainside come together, that it feels like it has a big presence on the trail. And sometimes like it might not even fit through. But it nearly always does, especially after you realize the best approach is to swing that long front-end around the rear axle, and only then give it a squirt of watts to get up whatever is in front of you. Unlike the Giant Trance or Specialized Stumpjumper, bikes you can simply steer through most things when you get to them, the Blackthorn requires a bit more room and forethought.
As with many bikes like this, it has a lot of traction for you to use, with the rear-end seeming to offer more consistent bite than the firmer feeling machines. That'll help your cause through the tricky stuff, but it's also a relatively active bike that doesn't like those out of the saddle efforts, especially compared to the spritelier trail bikes on test. Pedal like you've got no idea what good form looks like and you'll see the suspension slightly dip in and out of its travel under you, meaning you're best off flipping the Fox shock's pedal-assist switch if your climbs are smooth and long.
Next to the Stumpjumper or Ibis Mojo, the Blackthorn is a bit more relaxed and it wants you to relax on the climbs as well. Doesn't sound like a terrible way to get to the top, does it?
Descending While the lighter duty trail bikes feel, well, very much like trail bikes when pointed down most descents, Barney immediately lets you know that it's ready for more than that. The active rear-suspension and Fox 36 with its GRIP2 damper, along with geometry that rewards your uphill patience with downhill capabilities, sees the Blackthorn roll through sections that had a few other bikes stuttering a bit, especially when it got really rough.
In the high-speed choppy stuff the smaller bikes need you to ride them with a firm hand and eyes wide open, ready for a rock or root that goes unnoticed until it's put you on your back. They're more on-edge and lively, traits that I tend to prefer, whereas the Salsa is a calmer, aim-and-release-the-brakes ride that won't be fussed by your downhill KOM attempts. Higher speeds and rougher ground are where the Blackthorn pulls ahead of the more classic trail bikes, by isolating the rider more and certainly providing more traction.
It pulls ahead of all but the P-Train in those settings, staying level and stable while the others tend to see their wheels knocked offline (or just into the air) more often than the Salsa. This gives Barney an advantage anytime the corners aren't smooth, and it turned out to be a surprisingly fun and fast bike in tighter bends when you can use the traction and calmness to come into them too fast for your own good and pop out the other side like you're the one who did something right. Yeah, that's what happened...
The answer is always momentum, no matter what bike you're on, but especially so on something like the Blackthorn. Much like the P-Train, it's not a bike that loves slow-speeds and sprinting out of every corner like you're at a race, which means it's probably not the best for those flat, tight trails out there. Yeah, it'll do them, but it won't do them as well as the Stumpy or Ibis.
But the Blackthorn isn't really competing against the Stumpy or Ibis, is it? Instead, let's talk about how it compares to the coil-sprung Actofive P-Train, another so-called trail bike that favors the descents. While the intentions are similar, the two bikes are very dissimilar on the trail. The Salsa feels much more well-rounded and responsive to pedal inputs, giving it more life and energy when the terrain isn't tilted downwards as much as the mostly steel Actofive would prefer. In those moments, when the ride might include a bit of sketchy but mostly fun, it's the Blackthorn that I'd reach for. But if your trail rides see you sliding down all sorts of rowdy terrain or going at higher speeds more often than not, it's the descending-focused P-Train that provides more control and confidence.
The bike's 140mm of Split-Pivot suspension is as impressive as I'd expect, especially early on in its travel when the air-sprung shock feels quite slippery. Not coil-sprung slippery, mind you, but definitely more supple than the other air-sprung bikes. The middle of the travel feels more active, too, much more than an extra 5 or 10mm might provide, and there's zero clanging when you reach the end of the stroke. Bottom-out doesn't come any sooner than you'd expect, either, with the 140mm managing to balance small bump compliance with the end of the travel quite well. What I mean is that it's so active and smooth in the first third of its travel that you might expect it to reach the other end a bit too quickly, but it doesn't.
So where does that leave us with the Blackthorn? Well, it provides more confidence on scary downhills than the Giant, Ibis, and Stumpy, but that's not really a surprise given its numbers and spec. Then again, it can't quite match the P-Train when the descents get really chunky or tricky.
The Blackthorn is more Purple Trail Eater than friendly purple dinosaur, with its 160mm fork and active, forgiving rear-end letting you play enduro racer if you want. It's not troubled by high-speeds and rough ground, but that does come at the cost of a bit less enthusiasm than more traditional trail bikes when you're not doing anything dangerous. I guess the question is: How much danger are you facing on your trail rides?
257 Comments
At 1.75 Im really in between sizes and Im shopping for a Stumpy or Stumpy Evo and Im so temped to go S4 but its just its immense wheelbase that scares me ( for the Evo not for the regular stumpy ).
It's nice to see them with a decent aggressive trail offering, though...I think it's a cool bike.
The Blackthorn does look sweet though, I'd like to take one for a spin!
I have no problems with Salsa or anyone else for that matter, but Taiwanese produced frames should be cheaper than American produced frames.
The fact remains it's easier/cheaper to manufacture and the savings are not being passed on by Salsa. At least Devinci is full carbon for the price.
Funny how everyone on PB bitches about stuff costing to much, then you point out a company that's actually charging too much and get down voted.
If you cracked the automated production of thermoset composites then there is a tasty pay check waiting for you. I've seen a few attempts.
Who's we? GG is not local to the entire world. If sure they're fine bikes and good for you for having one.
What's with all the GG fanboys on pb anyway? Seems like they pay an army to just spruik in the comments.
A comparable Stumpjumer EVO is at least $1000 less.
For what its worth, I've been happy with the long-term value of Salsa bikes. Never have had a frame related issue. There is a reason I keep going back to them, including a new fat bike (in purple!).
The Blackthorn/Cassidy aren't my cup of tea, too enduro-y. But I hope Salsa takes the lessons learned with those two bikes and apply them to the Horsethief/Spearfish which are more in my wheelhouse. A 120mm travel slackish (but not too slack) rig would be just right for where I ride.
www.pinkbike.com/news/video-salsa-blackthorn-cassidy-2020.html
'Split pivot is great!' 'No way, DW link is the absolute best!' 'You all are wrong, the left over scaffolding from the construction site down the street on my Evil is the best!'
I have ridden Ibis DW link and currently own/ ride Devinci Split Pivot. Like all modern suspensions, once I dial in my suspension settings, I cannot tell the difference at all.
It looks beautiful.
Being 5'10" also, in test rides I've found that 475mm is where I begin to like feel I'm piloting my own intergalactic space freighter.
@mikelevy do you feel you've found a reach number that is your personal limit?
TBH, I really like that 475mm number, but it's dependent on other things
The color is not a con! Yeah, it's a lot of purple, but if you're a person who likes color, that's a good thing.
It’s not “how does GG do it?
It’s how come others don’t do it?
For salsa I rode the Cassidy in M and it’s a perfect fit
So glad you wrote you have no idea.
I’m 5.8 ( 1.75 m tall not 1.73 ) and I have NEVER touched an S3 NOR an S4 Stumpy Evo 2021 .
Im only shit talking according to the numbers and charts.
Now reach wise I’m at home on a 465 but wheelbase wise I don’t want a 29 with more than 1230 mm of length in between the axles.
Having said that the S4 in the Steep / Low setting seems close to what I love but still it will have a 1240 of WB and a 65.5 headangle, which is mostly fine on most trails but I wouldn’t be able to enjoy the bike at full capacity when I go to whistler. You know ?
So wished I wasn’t in between sizes.
And you for your 5.11 how come you haven’t considered the S5 ?
An S 3 with a 42 mm stem or an S4 with a 35 mm stem ?
Im only concerned of the S4 s bus long wheelbase or the S3 s super short reach that would make me feel cramped on the bike
Help please
Really, another 140mm travel trail bike that tips the scales? Wow, 32.1lbs (M) for Salsa's highest end build? What happened to super high end trail bikes weighing around 28lbs? Seriously, for some of us that do not weigh 215lbs+ and only weigh 145-160lbs and not trying 45ft road gaps, do we really need trail bikes that weigh nearly as much as some lightweight EMTB's now coming out (Orbea Rise just over 36lbs). Strange, as lately we see trail bikes keep "climbing" in weight every year, but ebikes are finally now trying to shed weight. Hey it's 2020 and nothing makes sense anymore...
WB is 1215 and it’s okay . It’s a 27.5 bike
Now my only experience with 29ers is the M Cassidy i tried and was spot on geo wise for me . Just aesthetics are gross on the Cassidy plus that horrible paint job .
I love the assymetry of the Stumpy but f*ck me if I know whether to get an S3 or an S4.
Lové thé reach of the S4, hate it’s WB
Lové thé WB of the S3,cramped Reach though .
But yeah what you said helps , short CS makes turning easier
Bigger problem than that you'll find is there is no stock available for purchase...
So if worst comes to worst I still have the good ol Bronson which is by far the most true to my size bike. Period .
I don’t want to go anything less 460 on the reach but in the same time I was always like yeah I love the reach of the Bronson but I wouldn’t ever need more wheelbase
Just before Corona I test rode M & L size in both 27.5 & 29 Norco Sights at John Henry. Too short of a reach just feels a little cramped and uncomfortable, while too long feels like you've fallen off a cliff. Wheel size makes a difference in how big an otherwise identical bike feels too. There's definitely a narrow window of "just right".
TBH, I really like that 475mm number, but it's dependent on other things
And btw in the meantime I just sat on an S4 stumpjumper and it feels perfect
At 5'11" 185lbs, Im in that Large/Med dilemma... had a Large SB130 and the 480mm Reach was good for short rides but started working on my low back, and palms/wrists on longer rides.
But what bothered me most on local trails was the long 1230mm Wheelbase. It just limited the playfulness of the bike, and I like to do more than just bomb in a straight line.
Switched to a Medium 460/1206mm and it was immediately more enjoyable.
I get the trend... basically at this point, it you're selling a bike that isn't low, long, and slack... you're not going to get praise from expert reviewers or pro race riders, but most people are not at that level and the "race" bikes may not be a great fit for their trails and riding style.
Im totally on your side regarding low slack long racers bikes ! For real, I have always ran my Bronson in the higher position ! I never wanted it ever slacker and it’s geo is top notch .
It’s that I feel the need to go with a 29er.
Now out of experience I need a 460 - 475 reach . That’s what we know !
Then if the WB would grow proportionally with the growth of the wheelsize and also of what WB I’m comfortable to handle right now then it would be cool.
Bikes that do that :
Commencal Meta TR - Medium
Forbidden Druid - Large
Specialized Stumpjumper 2021 - S4
Specialized Stumpjumper Evo 2021 - S4 in the Steep / Low setting
The Hightower from Santa Cruz in Large seems similar but it’s not .
So that’s that .
And as far as playfulness goes I have a Transtion PBJ in large ( 445 reach ) that I use for jumping doubles and pumptracks . I basically use the trail bike for enduro and DH . I don’t like big suspesion but I like to get a ride on the very extreme large side of the spectrum of what’s rideable for me .
So it has lots of good traction, but for some reason that doesn't matter when you're out of the saddle? That doesn't make any sense. Traction always matters, and it matters way more than a bit of extra suspension movement whether you're in or out of the saddle.
Also that trail is in my mind on the outer edge of most peoples "trail bike" trail.. it was only a few years ago that it was considered a shuttle DH trail.. Its a bit spicy on my Down country Ibis Ripley.
Canfield: Wut?
salsacycles.com/files/tech/298581_SAL_Split_Pivot%2B_Conversion_INST_VF_EN.pdf
Kudos to whoever is doing the video work and editing, because it's excellent. The slow-motion parts with the corresponding description work very well.
The frame design, details, geo, storage look really well thought through and this travel/geo combo for me and my trails is the ideal "one bike". I like the purple too. And, for once, the top end model is, IMHO, great value. A Spec or SC logo would add like $1.5-2.5k to a build kit with X01/Factory/Carbon wheels.
Well, yeah, pretty much everything benefits from flipping the switch if you have shit pedaling form and are on a smooth long climb.
Levy, you're getting too close to Canada
Seems like a fun bike with lots of positives, as for the negatives... most top-end bikes come in just one color. It is kind of a bummer when you dig the bike overall, but you just can’t get over the color. It shouldn’t matter, but if you’re being honest, sometimes it does. Maybe manufacturers could do a default black as an option. Then again, so many companies are doing purple, it’s starting to grow on me.
Thanks!
Not surprising at all, really. And not sure why you seem to think that traction is only a bonus on corner entry, but not on corner exit...
The Stumpy is a firmer, sportier feeling bike, but the Salsa might give you a bit more traction/smoothness. Neither is better because they're doing things differently.
Because is a Ripmo wanna be
I bequeath the name...purple...(wait for it...)
... nurple
Decals-->Dekals???
Why are you screaming so loud in those videos ?
But, doesn't sprinting out of every corner require lots of traction? Sure, some other bikes might have less suspension movement when on the pedals, but that also means less traction, and if you don't have as much traction then you won't be able to put as much power down onto the trail. So I'd argue that this bike _loves_ sprinting out of corners.
They are now rehiring in most of the positions they let go: recruiting.ultipro.com/QUA1003QBP/JobBoard/4b01c3ed-7e54-43da-954f-c74c4b3945a6/?q=&o=postedDateDesc
QBP are the largest parts distributor in the US. If you're one of the millions waiting for a part or a bike that cannot be delivered because the company does not have the parts to build it, blame QBP for shitting the bed and then rolling around in the mess they made.
They are the biggest parts distributor in the country, and they laid off 88 staff members. Not furloughed, not moved to part time, not even contacted by HR one by one to be informed of the companies regretful decision, but sacked all at the same time via a video call.
Anyone justifying that is either a blinded-by-money CEO, or someone fooling themselves that they will one day occupy such a position.
Nobody is happy, there has been plenty of pain spread around.
"Biggest parts distributor" and you think 88 employees is a big deal? It isnt about being blinded by money, its trying to survive. You think the firings were out of malice?
It was obviously an unknown situation that prompted new strategies and pivots, but that does not mean companies should be immune from criticism when the option they chose was demonstrably incorrect and caused pain and suffering to their staff.
Check out this article to see how they handled it compared to two other distributors.: www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2020/04/03/qbp-lays-12-workforce-due-pandemic#.X78y9KpKg_U
Usually if a job lets you go, then hires someone else they didn't want you working there.
Salsa has a few features that Revel doesn't have with this bike. (Revel's are still damn sick bikes though.)