Five bikes, five different ways of approaching the ultra-capable short-travel bike, which we have categorized as "downcountry". We look for the mythical bike that is XC fast on the climbs, as well as being frighteningly fun on the descents.
Sure, it's easy to argue that some of these bikes are up-forked XC bikes, and others are really just trail bikes with less travel, but if you're just looking at numbers and pictures, it's easy to argue a lot of things isn't it? For the downcountry category in this year's Field Test, we had five bikes with 100mm to 120mm of rear-wheel-travel, and head angles sitting between 65.7° and 67.5° degrees. All of these bikes competing for riders with similar intentions. Our timed loop was in Pemberton, on a part of trail that was raced on during the Nimby 50 XC earlier this year. All five bikes were on the same Maxxis 'control tires' to make it as fair as possible.
Downcountry bikes from the 2020 Pinkbike Field Test. What's your pick?
The two borders of the category are likely the Pivot Mach 4 SL, with its World Cup pedigree and 100mm of rear travel paired with a 120mm fork to give it "trail bike versatility," and the Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol, which many eagle-eyed readers noticed says "trail" in its name... We had to draw the line somewhere, and so it was at this bike's 120mm of rear travel and 130mm fork.
Right in the middle, and perhaps the bike that was designed most specifically for the downcountry category, is the Trek Top Fuel, with 115mm of rear travel and a 120mm fork. It's light, 26.1 lb (11.8 kg) even with a set of Minion DHR II and DHF II control tires.
Another bike with XC pedigree, but with modern geometry and a 120mm fork, is the Mondraker F-Podium DC. The frame is the same as the one that Rebecca McConnell raced to third place at the Mont-Sainte-Anne World Championships, but with a few key spec changes and a "downcountry" decal on the frame, we put it to the test in Pemberton.
Finally, you've got the Juliana Joplin or Santa Cruz Tallboy. It has the same travel as the Trail Pistol and a similarly slack head tube angle, but it's lighter. Could it be that mythical climbs-and-descends-faster-than-any-other-bike?
By now you've watched the videos, read the reviews, and weighed the pros and cons. It's time to decide: Which bike do you want in your corner?
2020 Field Test - Editors' Choice
Sarah Moore - 2020 Guerrilla Gravity Trail PistolHonestly, the Guerrilla Gravity was the least appealing bike to me when we showed up in Pemberton at the beginning of the test. It wasn't a brand that resonated particularly strongly with me, with its too-cool-for-school cult following. Plus, the crude TrAiL PiSTOL graphic with its alternating case letters is reminiscent of a ransom note in a murder novel. To each their own, but it wasn't my particular flavour of Kool-Aid.
Pivot, Mondraker, and Trek have World Cup pedigree, and I'd enjoyed my time on the Juliana Joplin when I did a First Look on it earlier that month. The Guerrilla Gravity was the heaviest bike and ugly to boot. And I ended up having way too much fun on it. A true dark horse.
Sarah MooreHeight: 5'7"
Inseam: 30"
Weight: 155 lb (70.3kg)
Would it be my first choice for the BC Bike Race or a cross-country race? Probably not. Does it truly epitomize the downcountry category? Perhaps not. Does that mean it can't be my favourite? Absolutely not. As many of you have stated, we made the category up anyways.
Perhaps what I enjoyed most was the verboten feeling of riding such a short travel bike on double black trails. But it was more than that, I was just so comfortable on the bike it put a smile on my face every time I headed out on it. It's hard to swap back to rattle-your-bones 100mm travel bikes after you've tried something with a touch more travel, but there's something special about the liveliness of a shorter travel bike that you don't get on an enduro sled. The Guerrilla Gravity hit the fun-but-not-scary nail right on the head.
Sure, I wish it was as light as the Trek Top Fuel and Pivot on the climbs and as gorgeous as the Mondraker and the Juliana, but it's cool that the brand is trying to do something different: building carbon bikes in the United States, making a versatile frame so you can modify it rather than upgrade entirely if you decide you want more or less travel. Oh shoot, maybe I am finding a taste for this particular flavour of Kool-Aid after all.
James Huang's Pick: 2020 Trek Top FuelMuch can be said about whether “downcountry” is even really a category of bike (I blame Levy, as we all, and always, should), and the somewhat debatable definition of what constitutes a downcountry rig makes it even more challenging to pick my favorite. To me, though, a downcountry bike is one that blends the efficiency and weight of a short-travel machine (say, 100-120mm of rear wheel travel) with the progressive geometry of bikes that are more usually found in the enduro and trail categories.
In other words, a downcountry bike should be something I can ride in a cross-country or marathon race without feeling like I’m needlessly hamstringing myself, but also something I can ride with my buddies on weekends on the wealth of technical trails we have hidden throughout the Front Range of Colorado without feeling like I’m going to kill myself.
James HuangHeight: 5'8
Inseam: 30"
Weight: 155lb (70.3kg)
When viewed through that lens, I honestly didn’t completely fall in love with any of the bikes here — at least not exactly as they were.
The Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol? It was stupidly fun to ride, and something I’d consider for a personal trail bike, but it’s simply too heavy and just too much of a brute.
The Juliana Joplin/Santa Cruz Tallboy? I loved the handling, but my new dad bod doesn’t have the fitness to spend on a rear suspension that moves around as much as this one does when pedaling.
The Pivot Mach 4 SL? No question, this was the closest thing to a pure cross-country race bike of the group, but outside of that arena, no amount of spec massaging could turn it into something it isn’t.
The Mondraker? It’s light and efficient to pedal, and its geometry was truly progressive. Its heart is in the right place, but the total package was frustrating. It’s too expensive for what you get, there are too many critical spec issues, and the rear suspension tune is really heavy handed.
But the Trek Top Fuel? Now we’re talking.
It admittedly took me a while to warm up to this one. I was turned off at first by its short reach and somewhat harsh rear suspension tuning. The efficient rear end and low overall weight made it a super-fast climber, but on the downhills… something felt off. However, the more I rode it — and, more importantly, the faster I rode it — the more I began to appreciate its hooligan personality.
Yes, the rear end feels a little harsh at lower speeds, and the bike’s compact dimensions don’t naturally instil confidence. But if you throw caution to the wind, the Top Fuel is a beast of a descender provided your skills are up to the task, and you’re willing to trade some high-speed nervousness for low-speed agility. All things considered, it’s outfitted pretty well too.
By no means is the Top Fuel perfect. But of this lot, it’s still the bike that best embodies the downcountry philosophy, and is the most complete package here.
skinny asian dude gripes about his 'dad bod'
rest of us dads look in the mirror and mutter 'f-you'
hey thanks for the reviews guys!
I stand by my conclusion that the Top Fuel is my favorite complete bike of the ones we tested. However, if I could have my "dream" downcountry bike, it might be the Mondraker, but with a custom build that includes a different suspension tune and a less XC-flavored spec. Basically just start with the frame, since that's arguably the best part of that bike.
And Maxxis not being a tire innovator is a ludicrous claim. Their tread (DHF, DHR2, HR2, etc.), 3C design, and casing (DD, Exo+) has been used on so many tires it's borderline litigious. But, unlike other companies, they just keep designing new and awesome products.
I can buy one of each or I can pay for a new mid range Toyota 4-runner outright.
The Tallboy is a Tacoma, and 4-runner a Hightower....
and for once it wasn't (?) the turquoise one!!!!
But the 4 Runner won't be obsolete for 30 years. Any one of these bikes will need to be replaced when the manufacturer adds 4mm of length to the top tube and changes the rear spacing to 149.5. LOL
edit: never mind, saw comment below.
I also think it climbs and accelerates really well, but I'm not comparing it to XC bikes.
I can imagine that this bike isn't for everyone, but for my personal riding style it's the most well rounded and fun bike of any of the bikes I demoed before buying (Yeti, Transition, Norco, Specialized, Trek and more).
Between this PB review and user @Planetx888 cruching some numbers that prove it can be gotten down to ~28lb area within reasonable effort, this is high on my list. If I can buy the frame with the 130 rear straight away then this is hands down my next bike, model graphics be damned.
Mine's 31lbs and it has never felt like an issue.
Bank accounts be damned, you really should go for a rip on a Pistola or at least a Pistol with a longer fork, credit cards exist for a reason.
*taking deep sigh and running for cover - the STA is too steep for 120mm.
Like I said, purely personal. Still an Ibis fanboy, just not one to say a V4 is the ultimate all-day trail bike for me.
I'm long legged and love the steep STA.
I actually wanted to buy a Top Fuel before, but after a short test ride decided not to. I think the Ripley is the better bike overall. (albeit very expensive -- maybe they'll release a Ripley AF as well?)
For those who prefer a slacker STA though: simply move the saddle back or use a setback seatpost.
For my part, I weigh 215lbs. I've always said I can lose 2lbs easier than any frame can. Spent my entire MTB life riding aluminium. 30+ lbs trail bikes mostly. Recently bought a Canyon Strive (wanted to go full enduro). I ended up returning it for a whole slew of reasons (mostly manufacture defects) but... it was 34ish lbs for the race frame and I have to say not one lick of weight mattered. It was the fastest bike up and down I've ever ridden (when the shapeshifter worked). I went with GG despite the weight because for me at least, weight doesn't matter unless its over 40lbs. That said, I'm a rider looking for fun over performance. I demoed all the heavy hitters in the Enduro class (sb150, 2020 enduro, ripmo, strive, megatower, etc) and found the biggest difference wasn't weight, but how fun they were. The sb150 for example can soak up damage but IT IS NOT FUN. The strive slayed my PRs, but it was not fun. Megatower was amazingly plush, not fun.
My take: fun trumps performance unless you are a competitive racer.
i.imgur.com/YoA53D7_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
I had the aluminum model which was one of my favorite bikes I've ever owned. I sold it this fall actually to build up something more "Downcountry" as the TP was more capable than I was /am. I put 5000 miles on mine, and now it's with a local shedder who will use more of the capability that frame has.
As an aside, I got outstanding service from GG when I broke a seatstay and pivot. I'd buy from them in a second if ever wanted a bigger bike.
You can go to the GG site and get a weight with the spec options you choose. It's not a super heavy frame, so there are lots of grams to shed if you have the budget.
I saw where someone weighed their 9.8 ($6k) and it was in the mid-26ish range with pedals.
I know there was one time it was just a mistake on their website and not an actual "intentional" attempt to misrepresent their weights. (they had weights for component groups switched around and I think it was Vic(sp) who figure out what it was... cheaper build was listing a lower weight than a more expensive build, etc.)
A few things, SIZE UP! I'm 5'7" and have ridden a medium in most bikes, my wife got a Top Fuel before me and purchased a medium, she's 5'5", I tried hers out and it was too cramped. According to Trek's fit system I am smack in the middle of both sizes, medium or medium -large will work. That said - the Medium/Large is the sweet spot for people in the 5'7" - 5'9" height range, it makes the bike feel WAY better and it just fits perfectly. Based on the articles, I feel like both of the reviewers did themselves a little bit of a disservice and may have been on the smaller sized bikes.
Finally, I feel that it's very "in" in the online mtb journalism world to hate on remote lockouts and lockouts in general, I thought I would be "meh" about the Top Fuels but I was wrong, I absolutely love the feature. For any stretch of gravel road climbing or buffed out trail I'm hitting the twist lock.
Loved that you guys did this shoot-out!
I understand some comparison is inevitable or even necessary, but I think it would be more helpful to evaluate the characteristics of each bike that made it good or bad in a context that pertains more to the riding of the bike than what category it fits into.
So instead of "bike X is too heavy for category Y" it'd be more helpful to say "bike X is heavy, this impacts the ride in ways A, B and C". That way I can decide how the weight will impact me and where I ride.
But that's just like, my opinion, man.
I have been a ok-ish boy this year, so all I want is a PB shoot out between the following bikes:
SC Tallboy
Ibis Ripley
Yeti SB100
Transition Smuggler
Specialized ST
Intense Sniper Trail
I know that Pinkbike has done reviews of all of these, but it is always different riders and different trails, different emphasis for that article.
I think that there is a good portion of riders who are overbiked and have been so for quite a long time and are now starting to realize it's silly and that they want something to fit 80-90% of riding that they do and for it to pedal and climb better than their big enduro/AM bike.
Take for example here in the front range of Colorado where the large majority of rides all climb 1500-2000' all in one go. Having a bike that makes that that climb more pleasurable and only requires a marginal backing off on the descents seems like a huge win compared to pedaling my 34lb enduro sled all the time.
In a sense this category is for the practical as they realize it's best to have one bike that suits the majority of riding they do or for those who are lucky enough to have more than one bike. n+1!
1. I'd like to see the actual time differences in the laps rather than the percentage difference. 20 seconds means more to me than say 8.7%.
2. A lot of commenters are interested in bikes that were previously reviewed so were not put into the Field Test. Why not put them in? This head to head format is different. For instance, many people are interested in how the Ripley would fare in this group.
I blame the category name which is too negative....I propose awesome country....#downwiththedowncoutry
Trail Pistol- basically same bike as my Smuggler
Mondraker- fancy pants dentist bike that barely works
Juliana- Seems to hit close to the mark, I'm intrigued by the Tallboy
Pivot Mach IV- Ninooooo
Trek Top Fuel- Maybe? Seems a bit too XC though
Seems like Tallboy and Ripley (which I reaaaly wish would have been included) are tops in the category. Maybe Giant Trance?
Is it a complete list? No. But it is a representative sample of what's out there. I like my bikes squishier, but if I was looking for a bike in this travel bracket, it'd give me a good baseline to go start riding some demos.
I thought it was great that the same tires were used. I'd love to see that one step further and see matching wheels. Something "mid-priced" like I9 101's or DT M1700s. Since the drivetrain, cockpit and braking components all tend to be close in weight, this would allow a clearer picture regarding bike weight. Since wheels have an outsize impact on ride quality, it would also make for a more uniform testing protocol of how the different bike frames perform. I get that this would be more logistical hassles for the writers and editors, but I think it would still be super-rad.
So we got a group of bikes ranging from full XC to short travel enduro.
Not everyone is going to agree, the XC crowd likes their 25# bikes and spandex, the enduro crowd likes their coil springs and baggy shirts.
But we all know that you don’t take a knife to a gun fight. So it’s Sarah and the Trail Pistol for the win!
Accidents happen, it's dumb to say "I don't need to warranty it"
Try hucking to flat and putting all that force a square edged rock...point of impact was less than half an inch. Literally no bike on the market is going to handle that, I don't care what it's made out of. This was well past tearing mastic tape or putting a scuff on the frame. Shit happens, I ride the bike like the reign and enduro evo I had before, I wouldn't get a short travel trailbike and be comfortable riding it hard without a warranty in writing.
Nothing against GG or their bikes, it's just that their stated warranty isn't close to as good.
Your warranty doesn’t actually cover much when it comes to what kind of riding you’re doing. It’s often assumed that you’re using it for its “intended purpose”, which can include marketing so as long as the company puts out a video of one of their riders sending some gaps and drops, id point to that.
Most companies on the market have a lifetime warranty against manufacturers defects, some have a 7 year plan, some have reduced price crash replacements, etc. Giant has a guaranteed freebie frame/wheels/whatever is house branded carbon pretty much no matter how you ride it, but they still reserve the right to refuse whatever they want/take a while to get the right replacement. They did that kind of replacement for years before they put it in writing as well.
In my experience with a decent number of warranties, most companies will straight up refuse to warranty aluminum unless it breaks at a weld, since that’s the stress riser point from their manufacturing. I’ve had some cheaper single pivot frames that snap around the weld areas and they’re warrantied every time. For carbon, it’s a bit different since the whole thing is often hand laid, and sometimes they’ll want the frame sent back and inspected for damage other than the area in question to refuse it. Some companies are more generous than others.
Specialized refused to warranty an epic after a rock kicked up and took a chunk out of the middle of the downtube. A camber that had the steel race of the bearing fuse to the aluminum linkage got no help. They also refused to warranty a venge that snapped in half crashing in its first race/first week of riding. They offered the venge customer 20% off MSRP for a new frame (ouch). That’s just a couple in the past season.
I don’t think there’s too many companies that have really good carbon production and also market that they focus on just making a strong frame - Santa Cruz claimed that’s what they were trying to do with the first v10c and that’s about what I can remember.
Pivots I’ve worked on in the past for hard riders have taken an incredible beating, and I’d happily ride one. Theres a Mach 4 at my shop that sees 3k+ miles a year and has been ridden since 11spd XO first came out. Scratches and gouges in the carbon all over, holds up great.
If I’m buying new, I want the best warranty possible and there’s lots of huge companies I don’t trust when it comes to that.
Also, I didn't say that I don't need the warranty. I implied that I don't need to use the warranty, because my frame didn't get catastrophically damaged. I've unfortunately pounded this frame...it's absolutely fine.
Compare the letter of the warranty processes for both. I know which ones going to hold up better on paper. Giant stepped up in a big way for something that was totally my fault and well outside the scope of anything covered by “manufacturers defects”
I’ve “pounded” plenty of bikes. Shit happens, this was well outside of the normal “accidentally run into a rock in a rock garden”. Just because I didn’t break my BMC XC bike when I had it doesn’t make it stronger than the other bikes I’ve had. Feel free to come through for a ride anytime if you’re still in MA.
That lyrik is pretty awesome though, had one on my Strive. Super forgiving where it counts.
For me, I'll stick with the poor-person downcountry bike -- a hardtail. It's efficient, raw, and a fun change up from my trail/enduro bike. But I am interested to see where this segment goes in the future.
So why not review it for what it is??? Seems like every review of a short travel bike complains that the suspension is harsh, the bars too narrow, the stem too long, etc.. In other words the reviewer wants it to be a long travel bike.
We are regularly setting PR's and KOM's on Blue and Black trails in southern Utah, on rocky technical terrain.
120mm Fox 34 Front, 120mm rear, 68 degree head, 74 deg seat angle and ~24 pounds for the size Large MTeam.
In terms of bang-for-buck it is also easily one of the best in this class.
with "TR" Trim it is ~$7,787 MSRP bike with full XTR, 150mm dropper, Fox 34 Factory fork, Fox Factory rear shock, dual remote 3-position lockout "squidlock" and DT Swiss XRC1200 carbon wheels.
(you can use the MyO program to get the 120 fork and 120 rear travel, and dropper on any of the non-native-TR bikes).
Excited to see y'all review The Smash on the Enduro side
(course after they run out of darts, patches, and spare tubes they got to walk back to the cabin...)
There is no free lunch-so if you want a truly capable bike, 26 pounds is the minimum your bike will weigh. If you really want to get rad-more like 30-32 pounds. If you wear lycra and use the phrase "I'm just a cross country rider" to validate a lack of handling skill, the Scalpel will do the trick for you.
Mondraker's are poor values. But if you want the want the best starting point for a custom build there is no better place to begin than a Mondraker, imo.
Also pretty sure 3 Scalpels and 20k on them they held up just fine
My 27 lb Carbon Trigger will have to take the " Big hits and stuff in the air " I guess
Next time I sell a Scalpel in my bike shop I will have to ask " Do you wear lycra " because if you don't then you need not apply.
Does not include bash guard, pedals, or tools in that weight. It weighs 30.0# ready to ride but I carry all my tools in that weight on the bike including air pump, CO2, etc...
Anything that can be weight weenied without hurting performance, has been. Including air rear shock as opposed to coil (RT3 Superdeluxe), Berd spokes, Eewing cranks, Magura MT Carbon Trail, etc..
It's also as big as most XLs.
And I've seen more cracked Scalpel frames at the LBS than any other bike in my 20 years wrenching/and 39 years riding.
I highly doubt Trek, Pivot, Santa Cruz or Mondraker would've refunded your purchase, so that's saying something.
I'm curious, what bike has replaced the old Trail Pistol? You had a 2016 or 2017 Aluminum Trail Pistol (that isn't the newer carbon version with revised and far beefer chainstays)?
GG did everything they could to help you out, and your overweight ass broke it all; probably would have broke anything.
and they still refunded you, good on GG.
Don’t relive your angst here and sell your story like its new, cuz it’s old. Go away, you’re killing the vibe.
What's worse is my GF got a carbon GG Smash this year so I get to look at it and have to ride a mere metal frame.
If you want a take away - GG refunded him his money! Try that with Specialized or Trek. Not a chance.
Look, Guerrilla Gravity is a small company who manufactures bikes in Colorado and who's owners work right alongside the rest of the crew. They aren't funded by global corporations or investors, they don't have huge factories in Asia churning out and wasting hundreds of frames in testing, and you don't need to jump through hoops during the warranty process. You can ride alongside the guy who engineered your bike, the person who took your order, the guy who built your bike, the person who assembled your bike, and the guy who shipped your bike. Will there be problems? Yes. Every manufacturer has had or continues to have their problems. Yeti's aren't perfect. Specialized sues everyone. Trek had issue wish Slash chainstays, Norco did too with the Range. It's just ironic that the Revved Trail Pistol gets railed on because its the heaviest in the "downcountry" segment, then people chime in to tell us how their older, heavier, alloy frames break. All kinds of PinkBikers were sad to see the alloy bikes discontinued, but the carbon frames are stronger, stiffer, and have made improvements to solve the issues of the past. Isn't that the point?
He snapped some of the early aluminum chainstays, that he did. This issue has been fixed for years now and is not relevant to this Trail Pistol at all. (or even 2017-2018 alloy bikes either)
Get over it my dude, they tried to help you as much as possible and obviously that bike wasn't for you; you got your money back so hopefully you bought another bike that holds up to your level of abuse.
Lots of companies in the 1990's relied on rider testing, and it meant a lot of broken bikes and parts (often pretty purple anodized parts). As soon as Shimano released XTR, which was as light as the purple stuff and didn't break because it had been extensively beta tested, the era of crappy, expensive (but light) mountain bike parts ended.
When I'm riding a high consequence line, I want to know that
a) The bike has been tested-by bigger, stronger, and more aggressive riders than me
b) If I break a frame it won't be catastrophic
c) If I break a frame the manufacturer will stand behind their product
GG has at least supported their product, but some boutique brands (Yeti comes to mind) haven't always backed their bikes up. Even some bigger brands have weird warranty clauses (Devinci warranty stipulates that the original saddle needs to be on the bike!!).
That's why buying a big 3 brands bike from a local shop that will support you on a claim is the best way to go-if you have that option.
On the topic of "confidence in a product not to break in a high consequence move", that's completely unpredictable. No amount of money (Yeti) or popularity (Specialized), hell even weight (Banshee) can insure that you'll be 100% problem free no matter how stupid you ride your bike. If you want to insure that your bike won't fail at the wrong time, maybe it's time you ride something a bit more overbuilt for it's given purpose...like say a 29lbs "Trail" Bike.
I'm a good sized guy and I ride hard, not harder than anyone, but hard enough to break things and I still don't break frames. I trash a wheel or two every year, the occasional torn up cockpit or seat from getting wrong side up in the dirt, and plenty of body damage.
So breaking frames is kinda odd to me, but I think if breaking things is your thing then buy new and buy from someone with a good warranty. GG has a god warranty and they have great customer service.
oh snap!
I got a long ride on one in southern utah back in october. It handled great, geo was on point, fun to jump and drop and handled tech just fine. Oh yeah, the le mans blue looked as good in person as i had hoped. Pricing is great for the frame/shock.
But what i wasn't a fan of was the climbing for a 135mm rear end. I know Noel prioritizes traction over efficiency in his designs so i guess it is what it is. I'd say it climbed comparably to the latest Hightower... which (imo) is a negative. Even with the climb switch on it felt a little draggy and sluggish and without it on it was all monkey business like jumping up and down on a couch. The weight I could live with. Also i think it'd be fine on rolling climbs but once it got proper steep I was wishing for something more Weagly. The Ripmo AF frame is about the same weight but with the magic efficiency formula baked in. And about $400 less.
It a proper burly trail bike tho and a good one just a tough pill to swallow on the climbs.
For 'affordable' aluminum mid travel bikes that latest Banshee Prime looks amazing too and at about the same weight and price as Fugi frameset and with a dual link design so hopefully efficient.
Not sure what to make of the 450mm chainstays tho, it's been a long time since i've been on stays that long.