First Look: 2019 Liv Intrigue Advanced

Aug 9, 2018
by Sarah Moore  



The Intrigue Advanced is Liv's new trail/all-mountain bike that slots neatly between the XC-oriented Pique and the Enduro-capable Hail. Liv Global Product Marketing Lead Erin Lamb says that the bike was designed to be that one go-to bike that you won't hesitate to bring on a road trip, no matter what trails you're planning on riding.

Liv had an aluminum-framed Intrigue in their range between 2014 and 2016, but it disappeared when the Hail and the Pique were introduced. Since then, the product team determined that there was a gap in the line-up, and will again be offering the Intrigue in a 140/150mm-travel version for 2019.

The latest version has a women's specific frame, 
Liv Intrigue Advanced Details
• Intended use: Trail/All-Mountain
• Wheel size: 27.5"
• Head tube angle: 66.5
• Rear-wheel travel: 140mm
• Boost 15x110mm (Front), Boost 12x148 (Rear)
• 2x compatible
• Carbon frame only
• Size: XS - L
• Price: $3,700 - $8,000 USD
www.liv-cycling.com
engineered using Liv's 3F Design Philosophy, that uses the Maestro suspension platform to deliver 140mm of travel, tuned for female riders. It accommodates wider tires than the previous generation of the Intrigue (up to 2.6"), and the updated geometry gives it a longer top tube, shorter stem, steeper seat tube angle, and a slacker head tube angle.



Frame Details

Maestro Suspension with Trunnion Mount: Four pivot points and two linkages work together to create a single floating pivot for active, efficient and independent suspension system on the trail. The Intrigue Advanced features 140mm of travel using Giant’s Maestro suspension technology. More than just setting the rebound and air pressure, Liv has optimized the internals of their shocks with optimal oil weights and air-spring volumes for women, with the goal of having a bike that maintains sensitivity on small bumps, and feels bottomless on big hits, while feeling smooth and supportive throughout the entire stroke.

Updated Advanced Forged Composite Upper Rocker Arm: The Intrigue Advanced has an updated "forged carbon fiber" upper rocker arm. It is no longer a solid piece, but instead has a cutout in the middle for maximum lightness, without sacrificing stiffness and strength.




Women’s-Specific Advanced Composite Frame: The Intrigue is fully women's-specific, meaning that it has a frame geometry, composite layup and shock tuning created for women (more about this later). The frame has internal cable routing and is 2x-compatible for a side-pull front derailleur.

3F Design Philosophy: 3F stands for Fit, Form and Function. Liv has analyzed body dimensions, muscular activity and strength patterns, including thousands of data points about women’s anatomy, sizing variations, muscle energy and outputs. As with all Liv bikes, this data was used to engineer their frames and complete bikes to build the series from the ground up for women. Prototypes of the Intrigue were fine-tuned with feedback from Liv global athletes, including pro enduro rider Rae Morrison.





Frame Options & Build Kits

The Liv Intrigue is available in three different build kit options, all with their "Advanced-Grade" composite front triangle and using an "ALUXX SL-Grade" aluminum rear triangle.

The top of the line Intrigue Advanced 0 comes with a DVO custom-tuned Diamond fork, DVO custom-tuned Topaz 2 shock, a SRAM X01 Eagle drivetrain, Guide RSC brakes, a 780mm x 35mm TruVativ carbon handlebar, and Giant's TRX 0 carbon wheels. It sells for $8,000 USD.

The Intrigue Advanced 1 has a Fox 34 Float Performance Elite fork, Fox Float DPX2 shock, SRAM GX Eagle drivetrain, Guide RS brakes, a Giant Contact Switch dropper post, 780mm x 35mm Giant Contact SL handlebars, and Giant TRX 1 carbon wheels. It retails for $5,300.

The Intrigue Advanced 2 is $3,700 USD and has a Fox 34 Rythm fork, Float DPS shock, SRAM NX Eagle 1x12 drivetrain, Guide RS brakes, a 780mm x 35mm Giant Contact TR35 handlebars, Giant Contact Switch dropper post, and Giant's AM 27.5 aluminum wheels.

Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Intrigue Advanced 2
Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Intrigue Advanced 1

Intrigue Advanced 0


Geometry

The frame geometry on the Intrigue now has a longer top tube and a shorter stem for improved handling. The slacker head tube angle, at 66.5 degrees, enhances the bike’s descending performance compared to the previous version, and a steeper seat tube angle, at 74.5 degrees, improves its climbing finesse.

Liv's research shows them that a frame designed for, and a bike built for women plays a big role in women’s comfort on the bike.

Within Liv’s 3F design philosophy, they collected data that shows that when comparing women and men who are both 5'7" tall, women's torsos are on average 1.2% shorter, women's arms are 0.2% longer, women's inseam are 1.8% longer, and women's legs are 1.4% longer. They also found that, as heights get smaller, the average body dimension differences between men and women become more

pronounced. Additionally, they found that women activate their quad muscles differently, so they put female riders in a position to accommodate that lower body strength.


Suspension

Within Liv’s 3F design philosophy, they used a variety of different women’s body types and riding styles to find what they believe is the best suspension feel for women. They’ve refined the suspension's shim stacks, volume spacers, and air pressures to match the female rider based on extensive testing with their female athletes and ambassadors. Select Liv riders including Rae Morrison, and Liv Canada Brand Manager Amalie Gunn also tested multiple frame sizes alongside Liv’s design and suspension team to optimize the suspension function and ride feel for each.

Rae Morrison helped optimize the suspension on the Liv Intrigue Advanced.
Rae Morrison racing a prototype version of the Intrigue Advanced at the Sea Otter Classic.

Rae Morrison helped tune the suspension over the winter in secret in New Zealand, after getting delivery of the bike at the Giant Factory Off-Road team camp in Sedona last fall. Working closely with the team's new partner, DVO Suspension, she helped set up the fork and shock so that they have optimal oil weights and air spring volumes for female riders, right out of the box. The model that we tested at the Liv Intrigue launch was the Liv Intrigue Advanced 0, with DVO suspension.

Rae's usual race bike is the 160mm Liv Hail, but she said the Intrigue's shorter amount of travel is very capable and excels on a wide range of greens, blues, and blacks, but she can find its limits on rougher, more technical double black and downhill tracks.

bigquotesThis bike is super capable on many different types of terrain – truly nimble and fun. I was thrilled to give feedback during the tuning process and noticed a big difference in shock performance once we dialed it in.Rae Morrison



Photo by Reuben Krabbe
First Impressions
Photo by Reuben Krabbe


Liv launched the bike in Pinkbike's backyard on the trails in Squamish, BC. They hired local guides from Ride BC to find the best trails for global media to ride the new trail/all-mountain bike on. I'm coming off a recent injury, so I wasn't able to push the bike as hard as I wished, but on the test lap I was pleased with how roomy the size medium bike's 432mm top tube felt, and how comfortable the cockpit was with the 20mm-rise TruVativ carbon bar and 35mm stem.

While I didn't do any serious technical descending on the bike, my one concern with the spec is the short dropper post - only 100mm on the Medium-sized frame I rode, the same as the dropper post that comes on the Small bike. The XS comes with a 75mm dropper. The Large size gets a more useful, 125mm dropper, but it's hard to feel confident descending when you have four inches of extra post sticking out of the frame, and your saddle is pushing you forward on steep descents.
Sarah Moore
Sarah Moore
Location: Squamish, BC
Age: 28
Height: 5'7"
Weight: 160lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @smooresmoore

I asked Liv's Global Product Marketing Lead Erin Lamb about it, and she said that they put what they consider the longest possible droppers on each bike per size and that they look short because the bike has such a low stand-over height.

I was impressed with the spec on the bike, and I'd have to say, this is the first Liv bike that nails it with the graphics - across all three spec levels. Giant Canada is based just down the road in North Vancouver, so I'm looking forward to spending more time on this bike in the coming months.

Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Photo by Reuben Krabbe






Must Read This Week

89 Comments

  • + 24
 Why can't men's bikes have these kind of stellar paint jobs!?!?!?
  • + 1
 Dakine backpacks are the same way, probably other apparel too. Girls get all the cool colors, we get red and blue and black. I know it's more varied than that, but not enough.
  • + 4
 @LoganKM1982: You can always go with poo brown SC
  • + 11
 You would think these companies would learn that limiting the size of dropper post that can be used = lost sales. I can't tell you how many frames I rule out because they can't even fit a 150mm dropper.
  • + 3
 No kidding!! It's insane. My wife has a Liv embolden and it barely holds a 100mm dropper and still has part sticking out. Trash design work. Known issue for years but still there it is.
  • + 13
 The reviewer said she had 4" of extra post with a 100mm, so it would easily fit a 150mm dropper. Sarah could have ridden at 200mm dropper and been ok. Big companies like Giant, Spec, Trek err on the side of putting shorter droppers on smaller bikes so the dealers never have to swap them out if they can't get the seat low enough. By doing this the taller riders who can fit the longer droppers are shorted.
  • + 10
 @ShredlyMcShredface: "I asked Liv's Global Product Marketing Lead Erin Lamb about it, and she said that they put what they consider the longest possible droppers on each bike per size."

I read it as the four extra inches is because the post won't go down any further. I have that same problem, but not with dropper posts.
  • + 0
 @funkendrenchman: unfortunately what you are doing is your way of saying: I am unable to understand which design compromises were involved in causing this particular seat post insert depth. I can tell you that it has to so with chainstay length/ rear wheel clearance at full compression and the suspension pivot layout. 140mm of rear wheel travel is enough for the rear wheel to hit your bum on the steeper spectrum of descents, even with 100mm dropper which is my way of saying: I am unable to understand why would someone want to drop the saddle well below the level of top of the tyre at full compression of the suspension.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: waki, this will surprise you, but not everyone has the exact same physical proportions as you, or the same bike with the same geometry. Par example, I rock a 170mm dropper and am nowhere near imprinting my ass with minion treads.
As the article states, women have longer legs on average than men, so it would make sense to fit a longer dropper, or at least have the option to do so.
I know you're going to come back with the 'wc dh riders run their saddles at half mast', which is fair; on a dh bike. Dh bikes have radically different geometry, especially in regards to seat angle. It's also misleading to look solely at saddle height without considering standover and how tall the seat tube is.
Final point is that while the saddle can be dropped lower than the tire in full compression, riders are very rarely seated when bottoming out their bikes.
  • + 5
 Bullshit.

My wife is 5 foot tall and I’m absplutely stoked that this bike has a super low standover in the XS size.

That wouldn’t be possible with a seat tube that accommodated a 150mm dropper I bet.

Shorter seat tubes = lower standover.
  • - 2
 @robaussie99: Yes, but not everyone needs an XS and super low standover.
  • + 1
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: you know what annoys me most? When someone on the internet makes me doubt my senses. And then It turns out I was right. I spent time proving something I always knew. So no DH bikes do not have some magic seat angle, the saddle ends up more or less in the same place as on AM bike. And pros run their saddles higher in an even less benficial position than on an am bike when retracted more. Huge dropper post drops are the new megapixels of mtb. Food for Joeys. Session and Remedy juxtaposed with bb as the base point. Thank you,

www.pinkbike.com/photo/16210339
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: stack on the slash appears to be one long dropper post lower, lowering the body position further. Am I grasping at straws? Probably. Am I right? That's a matter of opinion.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: So you don't notice the difference between 100mm drop and 150mm drop? I sure as hell do.
  • + 4
 @funkendrenchman: it is irrelevant what you notice, you are unable to utilize further drop with your range of motion, it may feel cool that you have more dropper travel than the dude next to you but results in your riding performance are next to none. 150 for a long travel FS bike is fine, demanding more, especially for a XS bike is a “more megapixels” effect. A short travel bike like Process 111 or ht is a whole another story since you don’t risk hitting your arse with your tyre and you may want to utilize increased range of movement due to less suspension travel.

@YouHadMeAtDrugs so now it’s about the stack height to seatpost height ratio? Not BB to the top of the seat at a particular angle? So seatpost length is about location of arms not how more range of movement your legs get by dropping it? Holey shit... this reminds me of a discussion with a friend about eating Tuna. He gave us shit for eating tuna. It’s unhealthy and Dolphins die in the nets he said. There are possibly 10000 tunas per 1 dolphin dying in the nets we said. If anything, we should feel more sorry for tuna than for dolphins. He said no, because dolphins are more intelligent. And so what? We discussed, many more tunas are dying. In the end he argued that Dolphins are smarter than humans.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I agree with you. I'm 5.10' and my Trance only has 100m dropper and I don't have any problems riding it in the most technical of descents. Hell, I can recall descending these same trails with NO dropper post not too long ago. So when people say I need a min 150mm dropper or I won't buy a bike or 125mm is not enough I call BS.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm not sure how we got from seat posts to dolphins. What I'm saying about the stack height is that on the dh, your body position is naturally higher and more rear ward. Compare this to the low, aggressive stack on the remedy, and you have a perceived higher post. I suppose you could compare this to an urban flat bar road bike and a tt bike. Both bikes at the same seat post height and angle, the lower stack on the tt bike will lower your torso, making the seat post feel higher in comparison.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns:

Hey man, i agree with most of the things you said, but isn't there an assumption in your argument that essentially you are only behind your bike at full compression, which might be the case most of the time, but i feel like when I'm cornering, having the seat lower allows me to get my body in a better position to hit the corner better.

If you're cornering, dont you want the seat as low as possible so you can bend your knees more? If youre an average trail rider, how much % of time do you spend at full compression? How much time do i spend in situations(cornering,smaller bumps) where it would be nice to have my dropper as low as it can be?

When i had a 100mm drop on my reign and it was nowhere near enough as the seat would constantly hit my bum on bumps and make me feel like i couldnt as easy pre-load the bike because i cant get my body lower. I know it is an anecdote, but I do feel like it is a difference, but i cant quite put my thumb on it.

Another thing i don't quite understand is why they(giant/trek) couldn't just take the weight penalty(if any) and just use a larger seatpost profile that can both capture the main rocker pivot, yet still allow clearance for an extra inch or two of dropper post? Putting small droppers because of sizing is one thing, not being able to put it in if i want one is another. I understand that part of having the maestro/abp pivots need to be in certain places, but if you look at the ripmo/mojo, which has DW link, which is in my opinion, pretty similar, minus the top tube mounted rear shock, those have 170mm posts.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: After more thought, you'd probably want a lower drop on a steep decent while braking also.

I think the reason why they haven't done it is because of the 2x issue. If you want to run di2 or a front derailleur, i guess youre stuck with the design youre stuck with. I dont want to go down that rathole, but if thats the reason why you can't have a dropper. I am sure most people would be more than willing to trade the front derailleur for some "megapixels"
  • + 1
 @robaussie99:

the standover height of this bike compared to the trance is only 5mm less. i call your bluff.
  • + 3
 @funkendrenchman: You're argument is invalid. This bike is meant for women - IE "LIV" - typically women are either shorter than the average male or have a shorter inseam. The average height of a woman in the USA is 5'4". Any women of that height has no need whatsoever for a 150mm dropper. More often than not they are having to do what I did, and change out my 120mm dropper for a 100mm! If you feel that this bike is not suitable for your giraffe-like stand over, you might want to move along...
  • + 1
 @funkendrenchman: actually speaking from my own experience I ride small bikes but have a 30-31" inseam so if I ride a 100mm dropper I have 4+ inches sticking out because I need the saddle to be at that height when fully extended. I put a 125mm on and get 1-2" more of drop when my saddle is down.

So I think she is referring to where she needs the saddle to be when pedaling, meaning that she will have a fair amount of seat post showing when the saddle is dropped, NOT that she couldn't put the seat post into the frame any further.
  • + 1
 @mudmeetstire881011: My argument wasn't that every woman needs a 150mm dropper, just that when I'm looking for a frame, I want a 150mm dropper, and if the fame can't accommodate that, I look elsewhere.

Likewise, a 5'6" woman, looking at a medium Liv, will likely want a dropper longer than the 100mm max that the frame allows.

And apparently it was an issue for the reviewer as well.
  • + 2
 @bsweat: what bluff?

Every bike that's sized XS should prioritize standover over dropper post length accommodation.

The fact that the XS trance is almost as low reinforces that Giant have their priorities figured out.

The OP is saying that they rule out frames that cant accommodate a 150mm dropper, but the average height of the average lady-biker doesn't require a 150mm dropper in the first place, so the argument (being made by a tall man) in the comments section of a ladies bike review seems out of place.
  • + 0
 @robaussie99: I never said that an XS ladies frame needs a 150mm dropper. I said that limiting dropper post size = lost sales. The XS frame is limited to a 75mm dropper post, which based on the 4" of exposed seatpost when dropped, seems to be on the short side.
  • + 1
 @funkendrenchman: so using your logic all XS sized bikes should be able to accommodate a 170mm dropper, the largest currently available on the market?

You'd have approximately 0 mountain bikers shorter than 6ft on the trail if you did that.....

How many sales would you lose because nobody fit on your bikes.....
  • - 1
 @robaussie99: That's not what I said at all.
  • + 1
 @funkendrenchman: you said " I said that limiting dropper post size = lost sales" - so conversely, NOT limiting dropper post size = more sales.

The only way to NOT limit dropper post size is to make every frame 170mm compatible..no?
  • + 3
 why do you need 150mm of drop on a small frame?
  • + 0
 The Giant posts, that these run, aren't the most compact droppers on the market, you could probably squeeze a longer One Up or KS Lev in there without issues. The Medium Reign comes with a 125 dropper, but you can juuuust fit a slammed 150mm KS in it.
  • + 1
 -nvm-
  • + 2
 @robaussie99: My gf is also 5 foot tall and rides a small Knolly Warden which has very similar numbers to this bike in XS. She runs a 150mm dropper (fully slammed).

This is great because a low standover doesn't do much for you while actually riding if your seat is 4+ inches above the top tube. It's also great for short riders riding steep terrain as it lets them move around more than their short legs and longer dropper would allow.
  • + 1
 Pretty simple solution....have the dealer swap out to a longer dropper if you still have 4" of post sticking out. A lot of U.S. shops search for a 75mm or 100mm dropper to counter the opposite fit problem at the time of sale. I.E.If the dropper is too long then you can't lower it enough for someone with short legs. This happens fairly often at retail. Easy!
  • + 1
 I have a solution. Straight seat tube going past BB so that bottom of the dropper can stick under BB. No need for internal routing either. The XL frames will accept 300mm droppers!!!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Genius! You could even integrate trunnion mount cranks, as your concept would have to do away with the bottom bracket spindle....
  • + 1
 @robaussie99: or just do a telescopic 2 stage dropper. 500mm of travel. Would go well with 3x12 drivetrain
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: It'll be 4x13 by the time this telescopic post makes it to market
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: joke as you may but the current trend of shorter seatubes regardless of frame size means people with really long legs like myself often need to run 170mm stoppers just to get the post high enough, I could easily run a 200mm post and still have a reasonably high seat in the dropped position, so while understand you personally can't see the point in anything longer then 75mm droppers, a lot of weirdly* shaped people out there can definetely use them. Back on topic, if you are under 5' tall giant/liv bikes are pretty hard to set up nicely, one option we found for my brothers partner (4'10) was the trance Jr as it has an uninterupted seat tube, we still had to cut 20mm off the top of the seat tube to get a 100mm dropper to work.
  • + 1
 @rabatt:

I also discovered the norco fluid FS 26’er today. Seems like a great value for money option too!
  • + 7
 Total marketing BS for these "Women's bikes". I'll just save my money and get my girl a small Commencal or something. Those numbers comparing average 5'7" men and women were hilarious. Let's design a whole new bike because of 2% differences in physical stature. Women will ride just as well and have just as much fun on any standard bikes companies "men's" bikes. Pick a small or Xsmall or medium what have you. But I guess I don't really care about my Wife's well-being since I got her the men's model.....
  • + 5
 Who the... is downvoting this? Why?
As an engineer, these numbers make me want to kiss marketers. With my forehead.
Scottyrides5 is being generous here. Nowhere in the article is talking 2% differences. I’m expected to believe that a 0.2% difference is worth marketing!?!?
So 0.2% will discount the difference between ‘mens’ medium and small?
This is embarrassing.
Nice bikes.
Reduce the bullshit.
  • + 5
 Try doing some research before typing. These LIV bikes are changes in almost every way for women. Try finding an XS in this bike in 3 months. They will all be sold out. Reason being Pivot and Yeti/Beti are the only two brands that have an XS that fit a five foot person.
  • + 3
 @CanBLine: They have their findings up on the Liv site, took me 3 clicks to find out - the numbers vary between a difference of 1.2% to 2.5% from things like arm, torso and leg length.

If you take say a 450mm TT from a Medium sized bike and reduce by (2.2% is their mean torso difference) by 2.2% you're taking just under 10mm off the TT, I would say that's a noticeable difference?

Most company run about a 15-25mm difference in their sizing so it would put it in the middle of the two "mens" sizes.

I've sold these bikes, some women love them, some don't - I've had women that fit a Reign better than a Hail - It's whatever. It means more options for finding a bike that fits the person in between sizes better, I'm all for it.
  • + 1
 *reach - not TT.
  • + 1
 @CanBLine: I get where you're coming from. I'm an engineer as well and in that world 2% difference is usually negligible. Thing is the human body is highly perceptive and able to notice such small increments no problem. People are picky about head tube angle down to 0.5 degrees, which is about 0.8%. A 10mm change in stem length effectively alters reach by 2.5% on their XS and that's another thing people are picky about on that scale. Look through everything you can possibly adjust on a bike and you'll find fractions of a percent can matter.
  • + 1
 @Clarkeh: agreed. It’s just another size. More sizes = better.
Very little to do with differences between men and women. Just differences in people sizes.
  • + 1
 So what is wrong with more options? Nobody from Liv says you must ride a women's bike, or it makes you 20% faster, etc.
They are giving the women's market an option that mostly optimizes fit for a majority of women. Simple.
  • + 1
 @taquitos: on my bikes 10mm changes in my seat or stem is enough to make my bike painful to ride...I LOL at people claiming that its just marketing.
  • + 8
 Intriguing bike. Hey Giant, your rocker Link pivot bolt would look a lot better if it was black like the rest.
  • + 3
 At least the bike isn’t neon
  • + 2
 Give me a Kardashian model and i’m sold.
  • + 2
 @scottyrides5: Kardashian ultra wide super boost? For when you want that 3 wheeler ATV feeling
  • + 4
 I couldn't understand why Liv wouldn't have a Trance equivalent in their lineup, but here it is! Pumped to see they hired RideBC to do the guiding for the launch, those guys/gals are the best in the business.
  • + 4
 Very aesthetically pleasing bicycle. It's also good to see companies put some research into bike fit instead of just slapping on a new coat of paint and tuning the shim stack for featherweights.
  • + 5
 I should probably read this article since I work for a Giant dealer but I'd rather spend my time tweaking my fantasy DH team for this weekend.
  • + 5
 Well, this is going to piss off Amanda Batty
  • + 8
 Everything pisses off Amanda batty.
  • + 5
 nice looking
  • + 3
 Why did they ever discontinued this model to begin with? The most well rounded bike in their lineup
  • - 1
 even the ladies in the action shots look like their saddle height is uncomfortably high for descending. but evidently women don't need dropper posts > 125mm on an aggressively designed bike. comparing standover height to the trance at size XS, it's only a 5mm difference (697 vs 692) and the trance can run a longer dropper. if i were a women, i'd look elsewhere.
  • + 1
 Xc pros ride that kind of stuff with hardtails and no droppers...I think people are overly reliant on the damn things.
  • + 4
 @clink83: well shit, maybe the intrigue should be a hardtail with no dropper?
  • + 3
 @clink83: Yeah, people should just become XC pros instead of relying on a dropper.Then won't have to suffer all the awful downsides of being reliant on a dropper...you know like...um...
  • + 2
 @jeremy3220: or you could just realise that 100mm of drop on a S or XS womens frame is more than enough for most riders. Aspirational buying does sell bikes, but sometimes its the Indian and not the arrow.
  • + 2
 My question is: if I repainted the frame and rode it, would anyone be able to tell I’m riding a woman’s bike? Wink
  • + 3
 Why would you repaint it? Looks better than the equivalent giants
  • - 2
 I have a feeling this topic might go sideways with resale values being questionable. That said I bought a Liv pump 2 years ago and felt being a female specific pump it would be an easy pump. I was correct and this pump is the best I ever bought.
  • + 0
 What does “resale values being questionable” even mean? Are you referring to them being sold really cheap? If so, thats just supply and demand. There is supply but not a huge demand for womens bikes. At least with a Juliana a guy can buy the frame and ride it because they are same geometry and stuff. But livs are catered to the differences in women that are shown between the genders. Guys dont want that.
  • + 1
 Geometry added to the database for comparison purposes...
geometrygeeks.bike/bike/giant-liv-intrigue-advanced-2019
  • + 2
 Sorry, I only ride male-specific bikes. Oh wait, there's no such thing.
  • + 6
 I only ride androgynous specific bikes. I like the best of both worlds.
  • - 3
 Why does LIV insist on "girly" women's paint schemes? Juliana and Yeti both offer women's lines that don't pander with ridiculous animal print inspired graphics.

The geometry numbers also feel tragically outdated. Right, women's geometry. I forgot my arms are longer than men's by a statistically insignificant number.

Liv, you do an amazing job on the outreach side and by sponsoring incredible women like Rae, but the bikes don't feel inspiring. The competition at 4k and above is fierce.
  • + 3
 those paint schemes would look just as at home on a unisex bike, maybe not the tiger print, but other than that i definitely wouldn't consider them "girly"
  • + 2
 Gendering paint jobs is stupid. Gendering a geometry is stupid in most cases, too.

Speaking of animal print... some people with weiners would like the black with teal animal print paint... speaking for myself. I really dig that silly paint.

Dear product managers: we just have bikes come in "vitruvian", "ape" and "t-rex", with our paint options being: choose between: "subdued" and "flamboyant" ?
  • + 1
 Their research must have shown that women are willing to spend $8k on iridescent leopard accents. The other models are less busy looking than the men's.

For tragic outdatedness, check the STAs on Men's Reign.

Hail DVO for $4400 doesn't inspire a little? At least it's a black rainbow.
  • + 5
 Are you serious? That Advance 0 colour way is f*cking sick - I wish they put it on the Reign 0.
  • + 0
 ugh, animal print, just stop.
  • + 0
 How do you forge carbon fiber?
  • + 1
 Strands of carbon fibre are chopped up and mixed in with resin that can then be injection molded. For parts that require omni-directional stiffness it's a lot lighter than alloy, but a lot cheaper than traditional hand laid carbon sheets.
  • + 0
 @wingguy: when does the forging take place?
I agree it's left over carbon fiber chopped up and injection moulded.
The forging part is total BS.
  • + 2
 @Sshredder: The parts are probably shaped and strengthened with pressure and heat just like the metal forging process. But instead of hammers and fire, it's done more precisely with big, heated presses. This is speculation.
  • + 1
 @camcoz69: all carbon fiber parts are cured with heat under a vacuum. Which is like using pressure.
  • + 1
 @Sshredder: Exactly! Apples and oranges are both fruit, too.
  • + 1
 @Sshredder: Oh, you're just a pedant. Sorry, I was taking you seriously.

When two people say they've forged a partnership, do you assume they've jumped in a sauna and attacked each other with hammers? Wink
  • + 1
 @camcoz69: I had to google forged carbon fiber.
In laymans terms.
It's a new way of making parts from laminate sheets that has a greater strength.
It's a stronger finished product using a slightly different method of construction.
The forged part is just marketing jargon.
  • + 2
 @wingguy: any blunt instrument will do.
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