First Look: Commencal Release The Race Proven Supreme DH V5

Dec 7, 2022
by Henry Quinney  

Commencal have enjoyed huge success in recent years on both the World Cup series, as well as the world championships. In fact, between their Commencal-Mucoff team, and the sister Dorval AM Commencal team, having their bikes on the podium has been something like par for the course.

Since helping usher in a new age of high-pivot frames with the Supreme V4, Commencal has seemingly gone from strength to strength. While they of course did have success on the world stage before, most notably with Remy Thirion in 2013 or, previous to that, when the Atherton's were riding their bikes, there wasn't much to suggest the dominance of both male and female elite categories that the brand would embark on.
Surpeme V5 Details
• 27/29" platform
• Aluminum frame
• 63.2/63.7° head angle
• Chainstay length: 440/442mm (+ / - 6mm)
• Sizes: XS, S, M, L, XL
• Price: $5,700 - $7,400 USD
www.commencal.com

The frames saw lots of use under the Commencal World Cup teams.

Even though the DH29 was an enormously successful and popular bike, the development continues, and they now finally release the V5. And finally might be the appropriate word - this is a bike that has already enjoyed a large amount of success including 9 World Cup wins and 28 World Cup podiums. While the team riders were using frames that were production-ready, details were often hard to come by. However, there were some clear and defined features, which we can report on with more certainty now.

Suspension Layout

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The V4/DH29 used a linkage-driven single pivot, with the stays of its swingarm almost echoing the position and orientation of the shock that bolted into the downtube. That bike had a higher pivot and a chain that ran along the top side of the upper stay. As the axle was driven into the bike's stroke, a link connected to the swingarm would pull the linkage to drive the shock.

The V5 is a very different story. It uses a six-bar linkage and a slightly lower main pivot than its predecessor. Starting with the stout lower link, you can see a rod connecting to the link that drives the upper link. Without this yoke - rear of the bike would move, but would not drive the shock.

The bikes moves away to a lower pivot compared to the previous version

On closer inspection, you can see that the upper assembly isn't as simple as it could at first appear and is far more refined than an earlier version of the prototype. Now, its made up of three distinct pieces - two outer plates that connect the upper stay to the frame, and are connected together by a large diameter two-piece axle. This axle is also what the inner link, which sits between the separated seat tube and is driven by the connecting yoke, rotates around to drive the shock.

It seems that six-bar layouts are becoming more common, or at least the labelling of bikes as six-bar. However, there is a small distinction to be made. A true six-bar, such as the Commencal, is defined by six links and seven pivots. Whereas something like the Knolly system or Specialized Enduro could perhaps be better described as a four-bar that drives a shock.


Frame Features

Lots of thought appears to have gone into this bike, and not just into the adjustment. Splash guards are also there to keep you and the bike cleaner.

We're also seeing more confirmation of the frame features and there's innovation here, too.

There are two fore-aft positions for the shock, as well as flip chips to also chose between high and low, giving four different positions. Commencal says that the flip chip orientation is there to tune geometry and adjust the head angle, BB height, whereas the fore-aft adjustment is there to adjust the shock feel, with the front position giving a more linear spring curve compared to the more progressive rearward position.

You may have also seen that there is also a bridge across the upper stays of the linkage that can adjust the stiffness of the frame. Commencal provides two bridges - thick and thin. The thin will provide an easy turn-in by letting the bike flex more, whereas the stiffer, thicker plate will give a more precise feeling for riders who put a lot of energy through the bike. It could also be used to tune the bike feel depending on the track.

Just two bolts to make changing the flex of your frame quick and easy.

Finally, the chainstay adjustment not only gives three positions to choose from (+ / - 6 mm) but also features flip-chips to let the brake mount slide along also. This means fewer spare parts to carry, and an end to having to swap out your brake mount, which should also make it quicker as you shouldn't need to realign the brake.

The linkage bolts also use expanders to ensure that things are less likely to wobble loose. This colletted system means that you set the torque of the bolt, before fitting a second smaller bolt and wedge system into the axle.

The all important connecting link.


Geometry


The geometry is largely what you'd expect for a modern downhill bike in 2022. The reaches grow by around 15 or 20 mm for the medium and large sizes, while the small and extra-large stay in the same ballpark. There is, however, the introduction of the extra small, with its reach figure as low as 400mm.

The stack height on the bike is also relatively high, even for a downhill bike. A large, when compared to the outgoing model, sees the stack increase by as much as 25mm - this is a sizeable change. A higher stack height will center the rider's weight more when riding steeper tracks. However, it can come at the cost of the ability to weight the front wheel in flatter turns. This consequence to the weight distribution can be finessed with longer stays for yet more stability. It's also worth noting that at just over 63 degrees, this bike isn't outrageously slack, which could play into that compromise further.

Models & Pricing

The Ride entry level model has a retail of $5,700 USD and features RockShox Boxxer with the Charger RC damper, and a SRAM / TRP mix.

Supreme DH V5 Essential is slightly dearer, and the Fox-equipped bike has a SRAM drivetrain and TRP brakes, all for a price of $6,600.

The Ohlins model offers a different flavour of high end - with parts from Ohlins, TRP, E13 and SRAM. It retails for $6,900 USD.

The top-spec signature model sells for $7,400 USD. Should that not interest you, there is also a frame-only option for $3,200.



240 Comments

  • 223 16
 I love it when they put 'E13' and 'high-end' in the same sentence
  • 60 11
 Yea, my personal experience with E13 components has not been good. Not once.
  • 8 1
 @stuie321: agreed but the one product that works is their flat pedals. 2 years i am 215 and not even a loose bearing!! only bought them cuz of pandemic and nothing else available but they are bomb proof
  • 25 10
 This reputation is from the older products a few years ago - the new stuff is really good. Commencal/100% has been on their carbon rims for a while and word on the street in Snowshoe from them is that they broke less rims than anyone for those races.
  • 19 0
 @DubC: Their alloy rims have a pretty bad rep, but I've been using the LG1 Carbon DH rims for a good while now, and they are burly as. Would recommend.
  • 11 6
 Fact is, their DH level chain guides are the best on the market. There is still room for improvement, but so far from what's out there, the LG1r guide is the best current design.
  • 10 0
 I got a free set of E13 carbon wheels with my Intense in 2019, and they've been pretty excellent.
  • 8 1
 My carbon e13 TRSr cranks have been perfect for 4 years now. I wouldn't have bought them myself (came with my bike build), but they are crazy light and now I'm sold.
  • 4 6
 @jomacba: Have to full on disagree. Mine broke and bent in a low side crash and was causing a ton of issues prior. I switched to an MRP G5, which has a cog rather than a rubber bushing (less drag), and is a solid piece. No chance of is bending like the E13 did. It's the best one I've ever seen, and not sure why it's not as easy to get.
  • 7 0
 And 7k$ in the same sentence.
  • 6 0
 @edthesled: my understanding is they go a ton of OEM spec with their lightweight low end alloy rims on bikes that ended up with single ply tires and getting used extensively in bike park situations. Thats a receipt for problems no matter what brand.
  • 1 0
 @stuie321: I've not had any E13 parts myself luckily haha but I remember a long time ago, a guy I was riding with kept having his E13 cranks come loose while riding carbon Evil Undead.
  • 1 1
 @jomacba: try shaman racing
  • 2 1
 @jomacba: 3 supremes in my riding group and we have all had nothing but problems with those guides and the bash guard
  • 2 1
 @Matturalistic: Well given that it bent, that tells me you were running the LG1+ guide, not the R. An aluminum plate with zero side support will bend. I don't care what alloy you use. I am referring to the carbon guide, not the alloy guide.
The carbon will generally deflect and return. Again, I did say there is room for improvement. I didn't say without fault.
  • 2 1
 @Matturalistic: I will also add that the MRP plastic is brittle and cracks quite regularly. I actually think the MRP SXG guide is the best thought out guide, however their alloys are soft, and the carbon version does not fully surround the BB shell forcing the load on the bash guard to the lower ISCG tabs rather than distributing across all 3 tabs. The G5 design flaw is not only in the pivot bolt location for the lower bash plate, but also in the fact that the lower guide pulley is fixed and cannot be removed. This actually has a negative effect on most bikes without an idler pulley, as it directs most of the chain growth to the drive section of the chain, and in turn causes increased pedal kickback. So while I respect your opinion based on durability, unfortunatley it fails in functionality.
My personal opinion.
  • 2 2
 @tom-mc: again, I cannot stress enough, I did specify the LG1r, that is the carbon version, not the alloy version. I also did say there is room for improvement. Ultimately the interface to the frame is really one of the major challenges of design.
  • 1 1
 @bok-CZ: I've seen these. Never used one though. I'm not a fan of the lower guide pulley, and I find alot of companies design their guides that don't have one to not fully surround the BB shell. This creates unequal load distribution, and can also cause the upper section to be torn off if your chain fails. (Speaking from experience here). I appreciate the reccomendation though Smile
  • 8 0
 Love my E13 Helix 12 speed cassette and chain ring, both bronze. Work great, lightweight, good pricing and look gorgeous.
  • 3 1
 @zeitfuerplanb: agreed. e13 makes excellent cassettes in my opinion.

The carbon wheels also can take a beating but might be far too stiff for people who don’t like the stiff race at feel
  • 1 4
 @edthesled: don’t know much about the carbon rims. But yeah the alloy ones are absolutely terrible. Dropper posts are bad too, and the dh hub with a proprietary cassette is heinous.
Their chain guides though, those work great
  • 3 0
 And this is based on your experience with which parts during how many years?

So if a brand has a bad product, you'll never give them a chance again no matter if they learned from it.
You just stick to your once made opinion?
  • 5 0
 @casualcyclist: working in a shop for years selling and riding bikes with these components on them. Seeing more e thirteen aluminum rims come back destroyed than any other aluminum rim on the bikes we sell. Usually with more catastrophic damage. Damaging rims on my own bikes. After literally ONE ride on a e thirteen rim I had 3 dents, one was the worst I’ve ever had to date. I put a dt Swiss rim on the wheel and that lasted me over a year. The posts work ok, but feel terrible and have a nightmare cable interface. The problem with the hub needing a proprietary cassette is just absolutely ridiculous.
Nearly everything they make (barring their chain guides) interfaces with the bike is some weird and different way that gives no performance benefit. Sure there are some things they make that don’t but e thirteen in general is a very frustrating brand.
  • 3 0
 @DubC: You're not wrong. Most OEM alloy rims are pretty bad from my experience. Especially if you ride in a rocky area.

Some brands even make cheaper OEM only versions of rims using softer alloys **cough cough RaceFace AR cough**. But I actually don't think that's what E13 is doing with their OEM rims. It seems like most of them are just normal LG1 EN's and the like.
  • 1 5
flag Jules15 (Dec 8, 2022 at 9:27) (Below Threshold)
 @DubC: But Commencal had 2 very public catastrophic failures at World Cups with E13 rims
  • 3 0
 @Jules15: you mean two years ago on Enve?
  • 2 0
 @stuie321: my girl broke an e13 carbon rim recently and they sent her one within a week and sent her back the old one and let her keep it. They also sent a gift card for the amount she paid for shipping. I was surprised I thought hmm I might buy e13 given that type of customer service.
  • 5 0
 @Jules15: Commencal Muc Off was (is?) on Enve. Thibault Daprela's snowshoe wheel failure was on an Enve not an E13, if that's one of the one's you meant.
  • 2 0
 @Jules15: Huh? When? Are you thinking about the Enve failures? Just cause they both start with E they are not the same brand, Eh!
  • 1 1
 @antoniobaca: any carbon rim manufacturer will do that
  • 1 0
 @Mntneer: My bad, couldn't remember exactly who made their wheels, just that there was a very public failure.
  • 126 23
 3.2k for a frame. You can easily get a made in germany Nicolai frame for that money which will surely be way better quality. What happened to commencal being budget-friendly?
  • 159 7
 They gotta pay for all those warranty frames some how
  • 16 2
 I had the exact same thought when i saw the price... The design seem very overly complicated like something from the mid 2000's albeit it is very fast
  • 33 3
 Maybe there is something similar in Germany, but remember when Uber prices were so low that it made all the sense in the world to download their app and get in a habit of using that service? And then slowly they kept creeping the prices up? Think of most of the consumer direct brands to be the same, as they scale their businesses, they are going to continue to increase the MSRP of their products.
  • 7 0
 for that price you can get a tora real steel too..
  • 54 52
 Good luck for winning a race on a Nicolai frame
  • 68 14
 What kind of premium would you pay to buy a copy of a race winning F1 car? We are actually able to buy the speed machines from the top of our game, unlike motorsport, and if any company can charge a premium for being "race proven" it's Commencal.
  • 10 0
 That's to pay for the rear brake cooling induction panel, it's like a Ferrari now
  • 10 24
flag likeittacky (Dec 7, 2022 at 9:46) (Below Threshold)
 but has it consistently won WC's or at all??
  • 5 0
 @DCF: and all of their world cup teams lol
  • 1 0
 @DizzyNinja: the 86 testarossa, gonna go down as the Commencal cheese grater.
  • 26 0
 Weekly top tier videos (riders, film crew, editors), multiple top level DH and Enduro teams, huge staff in the main office, for sure the overheads of Commencal are starting to make their prices go sky high. They had a few years of race success, reliable bikes, low costs I imagine leading to massive growth. Let's see if customers stick with them now that reliability and affordability have gone out the window.

I saw a video a few months ago where they toured their offices, they had one office are for their Architects, and the interviewer is like "You mean engineers?" and Max answers "No, we have staff architects to plan all our new buildings".
  • 37 1
 @adrienjnt: I don't think whether I'm on a Nicolai or Commencal frame is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back when it comes to me not winning my next race, I'm afraid.
  • 9 11
 Frame Only with no Shock looks like it went up $1000 from last year. The complete bike looks like it also went up $1000-$1500. Commencal is approaching Santa Cruz pricing now. The 2022 Commencal Supreme V4.5 FRAME ONLY were only $1700 during Black Friday. I gots mines! I am in no hurry to build her up. The real "Park Season" is NOT till June, so I have 6 months to put her altogether.
  • 9 2
 @likeittacky: they just won 2022 uci world cup with Amaury pierron.
  • 20 2
 So I checked. For $2950, I can get a Nicolai's DH bike, the ION G19. So it's $250 less for a basic four bar running on 27.5" wheels. Considering the Commencal has a ton of testing put into it and is pretty much the cutting edge of DH race bike design, that doesn't seem like much to complain about.

Nothing against Nicolai - they're nice bikes. But cutting edge race bikes they are not.
  • 2 11
flag likeittacky (Dec 7, 2022 at 10:21) (Below Threshold)
 @Illusion3311: You apparently didn't read closely (@bashhard ) His post then my response. Ding Dong
  • 2 1
 @Mugen: gotta make up dem jobs for da normiz
  • 26 2
 For $50 less you can get a demo with an Ohlins shock and they win World Championships.
  • 19 1
 Look at all the machining that goes into this frame. They put a ton of development and refining before releasing. I don't think I've seen a more tunable downhill frame. As far as I know you cant adjust frame stiffness on a Nicholai. Gotta love pinkbike comments always too expensive. It is probably the most winning frame at the world cup level of 2022 and It could be close to the all time most winning frame. There was a pinkbike article on number of wins a frame has. Pretty sure it was in the top 3. This frame is beautiful and I'm not surprised at the cost considering all the factors.
  • 11 5
 $4200 cad with out a shock….well won’t be seeing many of this next season. Commencal is waaay out of wack on this one, race proven should not cost nearly 2k more than their last race proven bike
  • 5 3
 @Mtmw: It's still just a bicycle race proven or not.
  • 3 1
 Nicolai are solid enduro bikes, but undergunned for DH. You can run them with a DH shock, but it increases the BB height even with 27.5 wheels.
  • 1 0
 Came here to say the same thing
  • 3 4
 @adrienjnt: And good luck to finish without failure on Commencal one would say
  • 3 3
 This!

3.500€ gets you bespoke Nicolai frame with fully custom geometry and way better build quality. I don't see any reason why I would buy a stock Commencal frame if it costs 3.200€...
  • 5 5
 @Mtmw: The Supreme V4 is known for two things. Being very fast and being the worst DH bike on the market in terms of durability. The linkage for the rear suspension has a devastating design flaw that creates a point of stress concentration between the BB and the forward shock mount. The frame tubes are just too weak to handle it. That's why they all sooner or later break apart at the BB.
  • 4 4
 @Mugen: Their bikes were never reliable. I don't know where that persistent myth is coming from, but it aint true. It's probably because reviewers mix up being heavy with being reliable. I personally had two previous-gen Meta TR frames break at the main pivot and there's a ton of other examples online.
  • 5 0
 @onespeedbrian: But the complete builds are very comparable. For example the basic builds:
Speci 5600$ - Commencal 5700$
Spec is very similar, same fork, same drivetrain, same shock level, commencal has the air version.
The commencal also has trp dhr evos vs code rs and maxxis vs speci tires, which is worth the extra 100 bucks imo.
Sure, framesets are overpriced, but that seems to be a trend with commencal bikes.
As others mentioned, there are other, more affordable commencal dh bikes as well. The new tempo also is priced quite fair.
Imo the price is high but not outrageous considering it is arguably the best dh bike on the market and quite complex. Additionally its nice that the brand supports more wc dh racers than any other brand and compared to the specialized it makes the supreme the better deal imo.
  • 3 2
 @Muscovir: Ive had 2 commencals crack on me and im full resigned to the fact that one day my third will crack at some point....
  • 5 2
 @DCF: Commencal claims not a single V5 frame was cracked in the whole 2022 WC season, guess that's why they're charging 3.2K which is still absurd. I do wonder how many bearings are in the V5 because I can already tell servicing the pivots every year is going to be a huge hassle as well as the weight of the frame which I can't seem to find anywhere.
  • 4 0
 You win world cups, you charge more. Simple.
  • 6 0
 @fullsend604: Where did Commencal make that claim? They've not otherwise publicly discussed the frame cracks, so I am curious.
  • 1 0
 @Mtmw: I think Mclaren paid $100m or so...
  • 9 1
 @fullsend604: I bet Paul Aston can crack one.
  • 2 1
 @rallyimprezive: They make that claim in their marketing material for the Supreme V5, but I'm not quite buying it. The suspension of the V5 (similar to the problematic V4.X) still produces leverage ratios that cause extreme amounts of force going through the pivots, relative to the rear wheel. The front frame triangle would have to be extremely strong to reliably withstand these forces over the course of an entire season of DH racing. But for now let's give them the benefit of the doubt and wait for real-life testing results.
  • 6 0
 @Mtmw: The fastest bike down the hill still 2.500 cheaper that all those regular do it all bikes into the field test...
  • 2 0
 And Commencal don't tell weight at the first date.
  • 4 0
 @PauRexs: Right we are complaining about frame prices for a World Cup podium machine while people are paying 12k to route their cables and their shock into the frame where you can't see things break or fix them and power their shifting with a battery so that they get a pedal bike that won't work unless it's charged up. SMH.
  • 1 1
 @rallyimprezive: discover.commencal.com/landing-supreme-v5-usa Scroll down to the reliability and durability section.
  • 1 0
 @fullsend604: Awesome, thank you sir!
  • 2 1
 @Muscovir: For now, they can have my benefit of doubt, but not my money. Smile
  • 2 1
 @fartymarty: Amaury Pierron is 81kg which is their main test pilot I assume. I think it would be a much different story if you put a 6"5 / 120kg athlete on this frame and send him on some huck to flats. These modern day bikes are not really rated for big humans because if they were the frame may be too stiff. I can't seem to find the maximum weight limit for Commencal bikes (weight + cargo) because they don't rate it but I do know for example Trek states on their website the new Session is rated up to 136kg which is interesting because that is a very large human.
  • 1 0
 @fullsend604: says something that Trek not only releases the weight limit, but that its also so high.
  • 1 1
 @fartymarty: he certainly cracked the V4
  • 70 8
 Does it crack as much as the previous version?
  • 12 0
 Actually in theory it should not, as the previous design had all the forces combined in the bottom bracket area. The new one should solve that issue as it has a completely different layout
  • 3 2
 @juliuskliemmtb: well, this one (like the old one) has some wicked leverage ratios going thru the links.
  • 18 0
 Rumour has it Paul Aston is banned from owning one.
  • 3 2
 Unfortunately, probably yes. That is, if they haven't drastically increased the wall thickness of the tubes. This suspension system creates some questionably high leverage ratios and there are very high forces going through the pivots relative to the forces at the rear wheel. The front triangle must be extremely strong to withstand that... But let's wait and see for real-life tests.
  • 2 1
 @Muscovir: Seems the Frenchies need to stick to riding and leave the engineering for the Germans...
  • 44 1
 $3200 for a frame w/o a shock??!!
  • 21 0
 No longer cheap bikes!
  • 10 2
 The trick is to buy a V4, because now they're on sale.
  • 4 1
 @toast2266: Truth bomb, already got a session frame because it looked like a......
  • 1 0
 i mean its not a carbon
  • 1 0
 @DirtyHal: Forreal. A Demo with an Ohlins shock is $3K.
  • 4 0
 Its capitalizing on demand. Commencal bikes sell out all the time.
  • 2 1
 @8a71b4: Yeah true, I purely commented about the price because no one else had and I knew it would cause the usual PB comment controversary of essentially sh*tting on everything.
  • 15 0
 @toast2266: Even better, buy a V4, wait until just before the 2 year warranty is up, then crack the frame. Now that the V4s are all unavailable, you get a v5 as a warranty replacement
  • 3 1
 @Sardine-Vladu: Im calling Elon to get you a job at twitter. You sir are a genius
  • 2 1
 @Sardine-Vladu: Or just buy a Demo, get a lifetime warranty, and you spent less.
  • 2 1
 @Henryd555: My commencal frame cracked outside of warranty, so I bought a session frame to replace it. Lifetime warranty to the original owner..
  • 2 0
 @Sardine-Vladu: Happened to my alu Intense. I got totally new carbon frame as a substitution.
  • 3 1
 Indeed, their frames are ~$2000 equivalent locally w/o shock. I can build up the same full built bikes for 10% cheaper without shopping for bargains and getting the frame from them.
Whilst all bike prices have gone crazy, Commencal's really been taking the piss lately; they are 20-30% more expensive than the equivalent speced alloy Specialized/Giant/Trek.
  • 2 0
 @gadabout-garth: Is Morewood still around? Those were the top bikes everyone wanted a decade ago.
  • 2 0
 @rallyimprezive: same but mine cracked in the warranty so im just selling my frame
  • 1 0
 @Sardine-Vladu:

They want a $1453 payment to upgrade from a v4.x to a v5 via warranty if there is no v4 stock
  • 28 1
 Add water bottle bolts in the front triangle you cowards. There's room for them!
  • 10 1
 Unpopular opinion but I genuinely agree with this
  • 1 0
 Joe Public Downhillers must wear a backpack if they want to drink!!
  • 1 0
 Rat parks ingest dust not water...
  • 24 3
 So what percentage of these are going to snap in half... www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0s95RbZR0
  • 10 5
 Hard to watch that chap Brings up a valid point though, too many are cracking, this is not on for a modern bike manufacturer.
  • 10 6
 @mrift04: hard to watch indeed. I was looking at the Norco Shore for a while and he has a couple videos on it where he just reads emails from Norco and complains for 15 minutes.
  • 8 2
 Not one mention of this from PB of course.
  • 16 3
 It sucks because AP has great insights and I really like the idea of what he's doing (truly independent bike reviews), but I REALLY don't like his idea that the best way for him to present to people is several unedited 40 minute videos about each bike. The guy knows how to write, and writes well - I wish he'd switch his production model up to have 20 minute video reviews that are a little bit more curated. He has the talent and ability. Start a podcast for the long-form video versions or something.
  • 2 0
 @Wing-nut: I'm not one to complain though Haha
  • 2 0
 I would guess based on the updated design - hopefully a reduction. They have removed the welding around the bottom bracket to hopefully limit issues like the V4 had.
  • 4 1
 Definitely not the best quality control in the industry but their warranty department tries to pick up the slack, and does so relatively well. Sure, these days Commencal warranty will have you waiting at least a week or two for a part, but YT would have you wait twice as long and don't even get me started on Canyon
  • 2 0
 @mrift04: Yeah it always seems like he's got an extremely high opinion of himself. But in this case, he's got a point. Even though he apparently didn't even do the research to understand why he's right.
  • 1 0
 And added 20 other welds in critical load areas. Time will tell@ITBVolks:
  • 22 10
 All the comments about price are ridiculous. It’s their top tier race frame with proven results. Everyone saying commencal fell off with pricing. You want a deal buy a FRS frame only $1500 us completes at $3700. Oh wait you want all the latest high end tech and race proven features. Hmm maybe that tech cost a lot to develop and produce. They still have quality bikes at reasonable prices.
  • 8 12
flag wburnes (Dec 7, 2022 at 12:20) (Below Threshold)
 Quality is questionable. Lots of cracks happening.
  • 12 4
 Session frame with shock: $3099
Specialized frame with shock: $3000

The idea that this bike has something special that is going to make you a better rider that other race specific DH frames dont have is ignorant to the very real thing called "rider skill"
  • 14 2
 @Henryd555: This thing is gonna sell like hotcakes because it wins races like crazy. Statistically, the Commencal Supreme is the winningest bike of the last half-decade of World Cups, according to the numbers it is a superior race bike.

Unlike Trek or Spec, Commy also sells a non-WC-oriented DH bike, which can be had "frame+shock" for $2000. That bike, the FRS, is plenty fast for the everyday rider/ occasional racer.

The idea that becoming the winningest brand around won't result in a price hike is very ignorant of a real thing called "R&D" and another very real thing called "funding/providing for several race teams".
  • 6 4
 @ryanandrewrogers: All that "R&D" over the past half decade and yet the V4 was so prone to cracking. I am not buying the R&D route on this one. Engineers in the bicycle industry are paid lower than engineers in other industries and the teams are usually much smaller so where is $1000 per frame going to? I am not saying the V5 is a bad bike by any means its obviously a great bike, I am simply wondering how an aluminum frame which requires jigs but not extremely expensive molds can be sold without a shock at a similar price to some carbon frames. But yes I deserve the passive aggressive nature of your comment because I made the same such comment.
  • 5 3
 Commencal never had "quality" bikes. Their production quality is terrible. The last Commencal frame I had was 1.2° steeper and 6 mm shorter than it was supposed to be. And don't even get me started on reliability.
  • 5 1
 @Henryd555: Bike frames cracking is very typically a QC thing. That applies to both carbon and aluminum, the V4/4.2 had a lot of QC issues, likely stemming from a unique design and foreign manufacture. I am simply wondering how you think the cost of a Taiwanese mold lay-er would be that different from the cost of a Taiwanese welder, especially when that welder now has what is perhaps one of the most complicated aluminum bicycles ever designed on his jig.

I don't work for them, can't give you a price breakdown. But, making the "rider skill" argument under the pretense that this bike isn't better than the rest is statistically false for the fastest riders. For riders to which your argument might apply, a bike far more reliable and affordable than the Supreme, Session, or Demo is available from Commencal as well.
  • 1 0
 @ryanandrewrogers: Im talking about fixtures not people
  • 2 0
 @Henryd555: Once you have the molds/jig the labor is the primary cost
  • 8 1
 @Henryd555: Aluminium frames like this don't just require jigs. Forged components for frames add significant cost (the tooling is usually 5-figure), CNC-machined components add cost too due to how time consuming they are to make.

The up front cost for a carbon frame is high but you save through that largely being "it" as far as production goes. With alloy frames you have a lot to do besides the basic welding of tubes. A high end alloy frame won't be too dissimilar to a carbon frame in terms of production costs.

One thing that's probably an advantage for carbon frames is that I imagine the price of the materials is probably fairly consistent whereas the cost of aluminium has been pretty variable (and high) over the past few years.

There are a lot of factors that have genuinely driven the price of production of bikes up over the past few years so it doesn't really surprise me that this frame is a chunk more expensive than the previous one. I don't have an opinion on whether the price is right, but for a more complex frame being produced at a time when production simply costs more than it used to, it makes sense that it isn't the same price as the V4.
  • 2 0
 @CleanZine: Yes, I'll be the first to admit im not the most well versed on the actual large scale costs associated. As I thought about it more and continued to comment purely based on keeping the controversy going I realized exactly what you are saying is more than likely the truth. Thanks for bringing a nonbiased approach to this.
  • 4 1
 @Muscovir: yup. The homers are mad but the quality has always been crap on these bikes
  • 2 2
 @wolftwenty1: Yep. Dan Roberts talked at length about how terrible the production quality on the Commencal Supreme was in the last DH bike field test. And he's an actual engineer.
  • 1 1
 @CleanZine: Wow, logic and reasoning.. See how that works everyone! Thanks for providing your insight and not just an opinion. Everything you said was spot on, seems everyone forgot about how raw material cost have skyrocketed over the past few years.. Almost guarantee that the industry has been eating some of these extra cost in order to keep prices from getting completely out of control. This wouldn't be the first time either, it's known that the largest brands ate rising costs from manufacturing plants about 8-10yrs ago so they could keep retail prices reasonable. Guess what, they couldn't maintain the decreases in there margins and prices started jumping like crazy and the public just thinks there being greedy. The Chinese manufacturing plants regularly force there customers to pay "extra" to release there shipment or get first dibs on priority for manufacturing or shipping (this is after all contracts are finalized and signed off on). This is not an opinion but actual fact, if you speek to the right people in the correct position you will be quite surprised how the actual industry works on the backend.
  • 16 5
 These 6-bar links feel like the suspension design "of the future"; if you can tune shock progression independently of axle path/anti-squat, suspension designers have a whole new set of tuning tools at their disposal to get the characteristics they want out of the shock they pick. I'm excited to see where these go, especially when they start to trickle down to more attainable bikes.
  • 9 0
 You don't even need a six-bar system to tune the leverage curve independently from the axle path...
  • 9 1
 These 6 bars add a lot of complexity for a few % gains on parameters that doesn't really matter. I'm not sure they are design "of the future". Probably just a fad.
  • 1 1
 @faul: Precisely. The Future is what bike companies are selling.
  • 6 1
 Six bar is engineers not obeying the KISS rule. There's little advantage to six bar and the number of pivots on four bar bikes is already quite a bit to deal with.
  • 3 3
 Aside from telling you how great that 6bar design is, this release doesn't even show a single graph to actually prove what it says. Most fancy suspension designs actually don't do much more than a single pivot well placed can do, unless you buy into that low anti-rise BS, then FSR is for you. Single pivot with a linkage is you want more progressivity and that's it really. But a PR release about a brand new frame with a brand new fancy 6bar suspension and failing to show the world how much better it is is a proper fail.
  • 2 0
 Yeah, but will it really be 50% better for the 50% added complexity over a 4-bar?
  • 2 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: I totally agree. But it's somewhat ironic hearing you of all people talking about the KISS rule. That new Nicolai Nucleon with the Supre drivetrain still haunts my dreams.
  • 3 1
 @Muscovir: There's not much added complexity. We just relocated the tensioner arm. But it's totally fine if you're not into new and unusual things.
  • 1 0
 it's a nightmare for maintenance, especially since you're pounding out hundreds of park laps on it. 7 pivots = millions of bearings and shims and parts to deal with
  • 1 0
 @luckynugget: Can't help but think that the additional pivots would spread the load across more bearings in turn reducing the the max load on each pivot. Technically there's only 4 pivots associated with the actual rear wheel travel the additional pivots are merely there to drive the shock. You have to imagine if it was a single pivot then that set of bearings would need to handle all of the forces along with the frame being significantly strengthened in that that one key area. Apples to Oranges.
  • 2 0
 @MikeGruhler: That doesn't work like that.
A chain have 30+ pivots that all see the same force.
It's not the number of bearings that matter, it's the geometry around them.
  • 1 0
 @faul: I kinda see your point but if you could build 2 frames with the same design but one had a single pivot and one had four pivots then I can't see how the forces wouldn't be divided (even unequally) amongst the four piviots and there location on the frame. I'm not sure the chain analogy fits this conversation, chain's are mos6t under tension with a touch of lateral forces when shifting or the chain is at an angle between gears. Thanks for the head scratcher.
  • 3 0
 @MikeGruhler:
If you take a single pivot bike, but with wide beating, and a bike with compact linkage like a turner DHR, you can have less stress on the bearing of the single pivot bike than on the DHR
if you make a bike like a giant glory or a iron horse Sunday you can have much less stress.
On a 6 bar bike you have to look at where the pivots are, what is the torque each part is seing, and so on. there is no absolute reason it would see much less stress than on a 4 bar bike.
  • 1 0
 @faul is correct
  • 2 0
 @faul: Right on, so it sounds like you're saying something similar to what I found researching this yesterday. It "could" reduce the stress per pivot but would require specific design parameters to achieve the correct geometry in order for the stresses to be reduced. So its not just the number of pivots that reduce the stress but it's there actual location, angle and range of motion for lack of better terms. Thx for the insight, found a ton of research about this that was a little heavy of a read but was able to make sense of it and definitely gained some knowledge on multi link mechanisms.
  • 15 4
 If you want a killer DH race bike with a multi-link high-pivot suspension, save your self a $1000 and go buy a Canfield Jedi.
  • 11 0
 casual $1000 increase in frame cost.
  • 9 2
 Amaury's bike for over 2k less than Greg's bike (or over 1k less for the frame). With the same e13 chainguide Smile Could be worse, if it lasts. Even the base spec looks raceable. All else aside, I like the look. If I ever get back to racing, would consider.
  • 2 3
 1k less for the frame? Do you compare a V10cc frameset with a commencal without shock ? Always better to buy a shock to put on!
Oh the V10 is a Carbon frame, with a lifetime warranty, a shop takes about 30% of commission on the price and it can be negociated on a shop.
I wish you could see the difference between a 2 years old v10 and a supreme DH v4
  • 14 3
 looks snappy
  • 4 5
 It did snap AP's collarbone
  • 10 3
 Commencal has quickly lost the plot when it comes to pricing. No longer the good deal they once were especially when you consider the direct to customer model. $10k in Canada for the top model. Crazy.
  • 16 2
 It's also 2.3 million in Zimbabwe for the top model. Crazy.
  • 1 0
 It only shows that people are willing to pay this much, nothing else. Maybe it just became a sport for the middle class. Why would they sell something for less when they can sell for more?
  • 2 1
 @lkubica: DH has never been cheap and never will be. If you're a DH rider/racer with no real budget then you would never consider buying new frames or bikes. You can build a decent rig for under $3k if you're smart with you money and buy used. And your keeping an already produced bike running for a few more years, that should give the recycling and sustainability crowd a little fuzzy warm feeling inside.
  • 5 0
 I have been waiting the entire season for commencal to release this absolute beauty. I actually never wanted a DH bike until I saw the v5. Already pre-ordered one. Price is higher than expected, sadly bikes are super expensive right now. Still I am willing to pay the price for this beast.
  • 6 2
 Went ahead and pre-ordered one since I have been in the market for an aluminum/mullet DH bike (didn't love the new Transition that just got released aesthetically). Lots of negative comments about this bike make me feel sick to my stomach about my decision though...
  • 21 0
 never buy something and then head to pinkbike comments lol
  • 5 1
 I got mine early, before WB closed, and it’s still incredible. Most of the criticism is re the price of the frame only option being pricy, the full builds aren’t so bad. As for frame failures, it happens to every brand and those affected tend to be more vocal than those not. Don’t worry
  • 1 0
 @souknaysh: Unless you just bought a Marin
  • 7 0
 Pricey but at least no headset routing
  • 6 0
 That green one makes me reconsider my downhill racing retiring.
  • 7 0
 the ohlins build is sexy
  • 5 1
 Last years V4 were available “November 2022.” Great timing for this release. Let me guess, available after the 2023 season is over.
  • 2 3
 Currently April 2023 for completes, March 2023 for frames. Still costs too much though...
  • 7 2
 2 years ago I got the 2020 supreme v4.4 race model for $5000cad. The base v5 is $7400cad, bit of a jump
  • 1 0
 Considering the price of of 7000 series aluminum more then double between 4/30/2020 and 4/30/2022 then everyone complaining should be grateful that it's not double the cost. A little research goes a long way, as well as asking the right questions.
  • 4 2
 A higher stack for the same reach makes the bikes reach THAT much longer. Case in point, I have two bikes, both have 480mm reach. Bike A has 650 stack. Bike B has 618 stack. Are they the same fit? Not even close. Bike A is a full 20mm longer in the front-centre. People do not understand the impact stack has on fit. They just focus on reach.
  • 2 0
 Am I crazy but how does an adjustable “+\- 6mm” chainstay flip chip result in the geometry numbers provided?

Based on the geometry chart, it looks like you only have two length options 440 or 442.5? Or is that from the adjustable shock position and then you have additional adjustment of Chainstay/wheel base? So 6 possible combinations?
  • 2 0
 There appears to be a flip chip on the lower shock mount that I presume switches between the high and low settings....

The chainstay adjustment is independent of the high/low settings I think?
  • 4 0
 I'll summarize the comment section for you. A lot of butt hurt jabronies, pissed off they dont have the discipline to afford the best downhill bike on the market.
  • 1 0
 4200 cad for a shockless dh bike is a lot and on top of that 90% of people need to pay shipping so when you factor that in along with taxes it's around 5k for a frame, that's more than most carbon frames and you can literally buy a demo with an ohlins shock on it for around the same price (ohlins shock is 1200 cad)
  • 2 0
 great news for boutique brands. Mainstream stuff is starting to cost more. this frame costs more than a Banshee Legend. I don;t think that is wrong if it is top tier, but it seems like this will direct more customers to smaller manufacturers.
  • 5 2
 Is it truly a 6-bar if the rear axle path is defined by 4 bars and the shock is just linkage driven, sharing the same ground pivots?
  • 1 1
 Ok thanks I felt like I was going crazy looking for the fifth and sixth bars
  • 3 0
 The axle path is defined by the 2 links (4 bar) and the connecting rod between them. There's also a Horst link at the dropout which makes the rear stay an active bar making 6 bars.
  • 2 0
 @Krispy-at-Go-Ride: Good call! I watched the video and they didn't highlight the pivot between the chainstay and seatsay. It is actually a true 6-bar, then, thanks!
  • 1 0
 @Krispy-at-Go-Ride: I missed that too, thanks!
  • 1 0
 I have a 2012 Atherton V3, this was the top one with all the bling, it cost £6k back then. Luckily for me the Atherton's had just moved to GT, so I paid £3600 new from Chainreaction. I feel they have moved away from a customer direct 'good value' brand, but I guess it's the same with everything MTB.
  • 2 0
 I really wanted to buy one of these Commencal's; it made the final 4 but just couldn't get past the Frame integrity issues, especially at this price point....so Ive Gone for an Atherton AM200
  • 1 0
 What were the other 2 bikes in your final 4?
  • 1 0
 @TWag113: Santa Cruz & Trek
  • 5 1
 It is a good looking bike
  • 5 1
 minus the plastic shield
  • 4 0
 Want! Sign me up! Now just have to figure out what kidney I need less.
  • 2 1
 I feel like $300 more from the Fox model to the Ohlins model is way more than the actual price of the parts that are upgraded. After all it's not just the suspension, the wheels also change from E.13 to DT Swiss.
  • 1 0
 there's 2 ohlins models and one has dt swiss wheels
  • 8 4
 Such a nice looking frame but charging carbon prices.
  • 8 9
 is a world cup winning frame charging world cup winning frame prices
  • 12 4
 @iiman: Im curious, do people really believe that buying a bike that a rider wins world cups on is going to make them ride better/faster?
  • 5 0
 @8a71b4: it's a classic, wins on Saturday, sold out on Monday ha!
  • 2 0
 @8a71b4: you being oblivious of the fact that people actually believe it, surprises me more...
  • 1 0
 @8a71b4: one would have to ask the privateers what they're buying and why.
Surely a winning bike helps sell said bike, ain't it? is the very reason of racing after all
  • 1 2
 @iiman: unless a privateer is supported by commencal i doubt any of them are going to be buying the v5
  • 3 0
 that derailleur cable and rear brake hose must have some interesting bends in them with that routing set-up......
  • 1 1
 better research needed pinkbike. Max Commencal ran Sunn and personally designed all Nico V’s dh winning world cup and world champs bikes. so not like he hadn’t done it before. he’s a legend. from memory, Myles Rockwell was the only one who won world champs apart from Nico in 10 years when Nico raced downhill.
  • 14 10
 Looks like a session
  • 3 6
 Bro really beat me to it XD
  • 2 1
 Don't race, mainly stay on the jump trails, and definitely don't want 29. But definitely still want this bike. Shhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
  • 1 0
 I like it alot tup I would love to buy one but DH bikes don't make much sense to me these days after seeing how capable and practical enduro bikes are
  • 4 1
 Commencal have the best looking and performing aluminium bikes, period.
  • 4 4
 Everyone thinks that until they own one.
  • 4 1
 ok, now it actually looks like a session...
  • 1 0
 its taken a few years but it has now reached its final form
  • 1 1
 Wait, the key thing with Commencal used to be that they had decent prices and that they had rugged frames that could take a beating and didn't break. If now these two are gone what is left?
  • 3 1
 Air intakes like dad's motorbike! so cool!
  • 4 2
 3200, they trolling, come back on black Friday again for 40% sale
  • 2 0
 I wish my bike had jet packs!
  • 2 4
 At what point is weight and simplicity going to factor in on these big travel bikes??? This bike has like 30 separate linkages and parts that make up the frameset. At least two extra pounds for what, the smallest bit of extra suppleness?

This works great for World Cup riders flying at 35+mph down steep terrain, but is not going to be the best fit for your average DH racer.
  • 1 0
 Love the Splash Guard, a new spot to hit your ankle. Seems to increase Down Force as well!?
  • 1 0
 How to switch fore-aft positions for the shock? Do the splines adjust it in the upper links? A little more specifics, please
  • 1 0
 Absolutely one of the best looking frames of the market regardless of discipline!
  • 1 0
 This suspension layout is outdated My 8 Bar Knolly Podium is the future 4x4 linkage Get with the times
  • 1 0
 would be great if we could store some snacks inside this chain high pivot
  • 3 2
 Gorgeous bike.... without the giant plastic shield!
  • 1 0
 plastic shield? I thought it was a number plate holder!
  • 1 0
 @danielfox: It's everything you wan't it to be
  • 2 0
 this is so hot
  • 4 6
 2022 Commencal Supreme V4.5 FRAME ONLY were only $1700 during Black Friday. I gots mines! I am in no hurry to build her up. The real "Park Season" is NOT till June, so I have 6 months to put her altogether.
  • 15 1
 and when the BB cracks they'll upgrade you to this one. Big brain plays.
  • 1 0
 High price or not, that is one sexy ass bike!
  • 1 2
 With how many variants they have done in such short periods of time, I won’t if they’ve ever been positive on the project. Sales to Eng hours.
  • 2 1
 i am saving money to get the upcoming V5.2
  • 1 0
 And yes, you also pay the shipping
  • 1 2
 racing is cool and its cool this bike is good for that but kinda bored of how it looks tbh. Definitely considering almost anything else lol .
  • 1 0
 Strange how the most expensive model has the ugliest fork.
  • 1 0
 now can someone explain to me why trail bikes are 11K?
  • 1 0
 dayum
  • 2 1
 FELT
  • 2 2
 $4,750 cad after tax for the frame, no shock. I love the frame but damn.
  • 1 1
 yall cant tell me that wouldnt be such a pain to clean that boxy thing.
  • 1 0
 Looks like a Grim Donut.
  • 2 4
 Jeeze, I paid $6200 for the Meta Power Mid-Tier and it's basically this w/a lift built in.
  • 1 1
 Such pretty bikes.
  • 1 3
 The head tube is sticking out in-front of that boxxer... just looks weird
  • 1 0
 It's because of the crowns. When fox shortened their offset, they focused primarily at the dropouts. RockShox did it with their crowns. Those are 46mm offset crowns. Vs 56mm standard (earlier offset standard for the current generation boxxer)
  • 2 0
 @jomacba: Fox does it at the crowns too. They only have 1 lower available for 2021 40 (in 4 colours) but 3 different lower and top crowns...
  • 1 0
 @m47h13u: agreed, however the last generation 40 had an offset of 58mm, whereas the new 40 improved upon their turning Radius while moving to a 52mm offset. I am simply referring to the standard OEM offset.
  • 4 5
 3.2k for a alu frame :o
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