First Look: DT Swiss' New 240 EXP Hubs

Apr 30, 2020
by Dan Roberts  
DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs

"Hubs for life" is how DT Swiss’ 240s were first introduced to me many years ago. Rather than considering them a wear part, needing replacing in a cyclical manner, they were labeled an investment. Sure, the bearings would eventually hit their limits, but put a fresh set in and keep on riding ad infinitum.

At the heart of this mantra sat the Star Ratchet system. Something so beautifully simple that it left you asking why would you do it any other way. Countless other small details, rarely seen by the user, were employed to make the 240 hubs a go-to for anyone after low weight, high performance and outstanding reliability.

I was sold on how my friend described the 240 and have cherished every set I've ever owned, never selling a pair and transferring them from rim to rim, bike to bike.

240 EXP Hub Details

Hub Options: Classic J-bend (28 & 32 spoke holes) or straight pull (28 only spoke holes)
Front Axle System: 15/100mm, 15/110mm, 20/110mm, 20/110mm BO & Lefty
Rear Axle System: 12/142mm, 12/148mm, 12/150mm & 12/157mm+
Freehub System: SRAM XD, Shimano standard & Micro Spline
Brake Mount: Centerlock & 6-bolt
Weight: From 104g front and 199g rear
Price: From $220.90 (€149.90) front and $433.90 (€293.90) rear
More info: DT Swiss Hubs

DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs

But now there's a new 240 EXP hub that uses DT Swiss’ updated Ratchet EXP freehub system, first seen on their 180 EXP hubs, come in a huge variety of sizes, fixtures and freehub versions and were even considered as part of the whole bike system throughout their development.





The drive side bearing on the 240 EXP (top) now lives inside the threaded ring widening the bearing stance compared to the previous design (bottom) which is intended to increase bearing life.
DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs
DT’s unique Star Ratchet system (left) means that all teeth engage at the same time, spreading the pedalling forces transmitted through the hub over a greater area when compared to a conventional pawl design (right).

Reliability

Just grabbing your bike and going for a ride is a simple pleasure, and one that DT would like to play their part in. Having a bike that rattles around from worn-out bearings or slips when you're really pushing on the pedals isn’t fun. Neither is time spent in the workshop instead of riding.

The new 240 rear hubs see an increased bearing width between the two main hub bearings. The drive side bearing now sits inside the threaded ring of the Ratchet EXP system, increasing axle stiffness by 15% and reducing axle deflection, which should up the bearing life. The 240 EXP uses stainless steel bearings, as opposed to the ceramic bearings in the 180 hubs, and also sees those bearings increase in size.

The design of the Ratchet EXP system is so that the surface area transmitting the load from freehub to hub shell is as big as possible. All teeth on each of the ratchets engage at the same time, and when compared to a standard pawl design the difference in contact area is clearly seen. This increased area spreads the load and so lowers the pressure on the faces leading to reduced wear. DT Swiss also spec 36-tooth ratchets as standard to maintain good reliability for all users. The single spring in the Ratchet EXP system now ensures a faster full engagement between the two ratchets, resulting in less wear between them.





DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs
Small details, like the notches on the end cap for easy tool-less removal, are abundant all over the 240 EXP hubs.
DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs
The Ratchet EXP system uses fewer parts than the previous ratchet system and is easier to disassemble and reassemble.

Maintenance

From time to time, especially if you're riding in extreme conditions, a bit of maintenance can go a long way to having a smoother running bike and ensuring a long lifespan of your hubs. The whole Ratchet EXP system can be dismantled for some normal maintenance without any tools and a degree in engineering. There are tool-free end caps with small notches designed into them to make removal by hand hassle-free.

The Ratchet EXP system uses fewer parts compared to its predecessor. So, there are fewer parts to fall on the floor and bounce under the washing machine. The single spring inside the system is now straight too, so no need to make sure it's in the right way round.

DT Swiss also made some small modifications to the flange dimensions so that, dependent on your rim, you can mostly run the same spoke lengths left and right. Their spoke length calculator is another tool in place to make maintenance or wheel building easier.





DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs
Front hub options aplenty to cover hub widths, axle standards, brake mounts, spoke type, and spoke count.
DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs
Rear hub has the same options as the front with the added options for freehub and ratchet teeth.

Options

Not wanting to restrict any customers from having a new 240 EXP hub, DT Swiss offer it in an eye-watering number of configurations for both road and mountain bikes.

Focussing on the mountain bike options there are classic hub, using J-bend, and straight pull options for the spokes in 28 or 32 spoke counts. Boost, non-boost, Super Boost and DH width options with end caps for through axle and quick release. The end caps from the old 240s will also fit on the new hubs.

There are Centerlock and 6-bolt options for disc mounting. And if you've got a frame with rim brakes then there are even options without disc mounts for you. SRAM XD, standard Shimano and Micro Spline freehub options exist for the freehubs, all interchangeable on the same hub body. All SRAM, Shimano and Campagnolo options are available for the road too.

As standard the 240 EXP comes with a 36-tooth ratchet, but there is an optional upgrade to a 54-tooth for riders who prefer more points of engagement.





DT Swiss 240 EXP Hubs
Points of engagement, weight, reliability, and the hub's role in the greater system of a suspension bike are all things DT Swiss considered when developing the new 240 EXP.

Complete System

What's mightily impressive is how DT Swiss talk about their hub development as part of the complete system of a bike. Many manufacturers focus solely on the product in hand, and can often forget about its role in the greater sum of parts.

The new 240 EXP's low weight might not be as significant when compared to other areas you can save chunks of weight. But grams do add up, and lighter hubs also benefit your un-sprung mass on a suspension bike.

DT's choice to go with a 36-tooth ratchet also tells a lot about their consideration of the hub's role in a whole bike. Once again, the topic of pedal kickback raises its head, something being talked about a lot at the moment. DT recognize that the number of factors involved in this topic is huge, and that ultimately, it's a balancing act of all these factors that they need to do.

Pedal kick as a theory isn't hard to get a hold of, although be warned - it can take a turn for the extra-nerdy very quickly.

When we go through our travel on a suspension bike the distance between the rear axle and bottom bracket increases, and something needs to give in the drivetrain to accommodate for this. If our freehub is engaged, either when we're pedalling or locking the wheel under braking, that increase between the rear axle and BB causes the upper part of the chain to pull on the cranks and we can measure the angle the cranks would move dependent on what gear you’re in, how much travel you use and how much your kinematic design changes that distance between the rear axle and BB.

If you're freewheeling, though, your freehub isn't engaged. That means the chain pull from suspension compression would have to cause the freehub to at least match the angular speed of the hub body before pedal kickback could be considered a problem and bring the points of engagement into the equation. Once the freehub and hub body are spinning at the same speed the number of points of engagement comes into play at how fast that impact at the rear wheel could turn into pedal kickback. A fast-engaging hub could potentially make it possible to feel those pedal kickback issues more often, while a slower engaging hub would feel them less often.

On the other end of the scale is the backlash of the hub versus points of engagement. That faster engagement hub would take less time before your pedal stroke would turn into the bike going forwards while the slower engaging hub would take a little longer.

DT cites a triangle of balance between points of engagement, weight and reliability. More points of engagement, above their 54-tooth option, would require an enlarged construction to have the same reliability, and so upping the weight. More points of engagement would up the chances of pedal kickback to be prevalent in the riding experience too.

According to DT, using 36-teeth strikes just the right balance between all these factors. It picks up well when you start to pedal, doesn't interfere with the rider or suspension as much as a faster engaging hub when you hit a bump, and can be packaged neatly inside a low weight and high reliability system.

All in all, pretty tech minded for just a simple hub.









212 Comments

  • 265 19
 "Hubs for life".

Lucky I didn't buy some for my 135 rear end bike with 20x110 front fork. And my 142 bike with 15x100 fork. Then my 148 bike with 15x110 fork. And now my 157 bike. Maybe I'll finally get a pair in 2022 to match my 160 rear frame with 20x110 boost fork.
  • 15 2
 These can be for life if you stick to a hub standard for life, I guess.

Wondering though, I've got a set of 440 hubs. Are there endcaps to covert the rear from 135 to 142x12? It is common for other hubs including some of theirs, but I can't find anything about the 440. It is as if it was never part of their line up.

Also, I've got a 350 hybrid rear hub coming my way. It is actually e-bike specific and even though I don't ride an e-bike, I bought it because it has a steel freehub body. I didn't like that the cassette eats into the hub body of the 440 (makes it a bitch to take the cassette off) so a steel spline (like for the Syntace MX hub or the Nukeproof Horizon hub) or just a completely steel freehub should solve that. I wonder if the steel freehub body would also fit their other hubs (or at least my 440 rear hub).
  • 21 0
 When I had my hope pro2 hubs, I managed to break the freehub body, tear out a pawl and needed to replace the bearings of the front hub over the 5 years I owned them. I've had a set of 240S hubs since the start of 2016, and other than a clean and a little grease in the star ratchet to keep it quiet, they've been incredibly reliable. I don't see myself buying a new bike in the next several years, and can see the hub lasting at least that long.
  • 32 0
 i have found DT hubs to be way more straightforward to adapt to changing standards over time, than any others. I'm not sure that DT is driving the extent of change in hub standards as much as others (fork makers driving axle standards for the front end? SRAM driving changes like boost? gravel market or road disc market taking forever to settle on a hub standard for discs?).

I've found getting new end caps, and converting freehub bodies, straightforward (for anything from 350 series up) and this is one reason why I'm reasonably keen on DT hubs. Sure others do it, but often slower, or at higher cost, or some not at all (inherent design means you can never change, e.g. crappy oem designs).
  • 1 0
 So true.
  • 23 2
 @jaame the advantage actually is that if you had bought some 135mm hubs back in the day. You could have actually transferred them between all of those bikes. Some end caps here and there and a rotor spacer. Job done.
  • 8 0
 @telephunke: Yup. DT as one of the very few even offer torque caps that are compatible with their center lock hubs.
  • 11 8
 @jaame: what happened to all those frames when you were done with them? Did you throw them in the landfill or hang them on the wall in your museum? No? Well, then the hubs will last the life of the frame.

That argument against evolving standards never holds up. If those frames are still being used, they're still going to need hubs.
  • 3 1
 Unlucky - if you had gone with DT their range of adaptors would have saved you a lot of money over time. Chi-chi boutiques hubs are cool, but generally a poor investment.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: You can try the endcaps of your 350Hybrid, but maybe you need a different axle..
Maciag has a conversion kit that states 440 with enddcaps and axle
www.maciag-offroad.de/dt-swiss-umruestkit-nabe-hinten-142-mm-12-mm-steckachse-fuer-240-440-freeride-naben-sid96484.html
  • 10 1
 There is an article on enduro mtb about superboost, DT Swiss rep says they don't really believe in it, they agree they are already too many standards
  • 8 1
 @Whipperman: "superboost" is not a new standard, it's a new marketing term. I've got a DT 240s 12x157 hub on my "superboost"/"157-trail" knolly fugitive LT.
  • 3 0
 @Whipperman: I am surprised your take was they dont believe in it, as they clearly stated the wider flange will increase stiffness. The simple physics dictate that a wider based triangle is stronger. Their issue was with the marginal gains - fair enough - but they did not denounce the science. And they will be supporting them...

"so in the near future we will design all 157mm hubs with the wide Superboost flange distance."

Easy to remain neutral, until there is money on the table...
  • 10 0
 @Bustacrimes: I don't think the "simple physics" are actually that simple though. If the flanges were symmetrical, then yes it would be stronger with a wider flange spacing. If you leave the driveside flange in place, and only move the non-driveside flange outboard, then you drastically decrease the tension of the nds spokes in order to maintain the dish. This has been debated at length on bike forums and everybody has an opinion, but I've never seen an actual source for any data behind it. I'm not convinced that you gain anything by only moving one flange out, when the trade-off is moving away from balanced high spoke tension on both sides.
  • 6 0
 @Bustacrimes: They might not believe that the 157mm would be that much better than 148, but they can offer their hubs to the hole market anyway. The intention is to cover all the bases.
  • 4 1
 197mm for life
  • 1 0
 @vinay: halo hubs have 2 steel splines on opposing sides
  • 28 0
 I realized that my weight has always been the same as the width of my rear hub. I was about 130lbs when I raced road, gained about 5lbs switching to a 135qr mtb, then 142 and 148ish in the last few years. By the time the trails open back up, my theory says I'll have converted to super boost 157. Never saw it coming...
  • 2 2
 @thegoodflow: its a circular argument isnt it?


"While the dish ratio of Super Boost Plus is slightly more even than that of Boost 148, the gains are only marginal. However, it’s still far off the perfect 50/50 ratio of 157 DH hubs." Thats a simple enough to understand statement - BUT who wants to run a DH cassette on their enduro bike? This SB+ standard fits with the way bikes changed because of the influence of enduro - but unlike other fads like tyre inserts, it managed to upset the majority of the market.

Its a marginal gains argument, and this wont ever end in any industry with limited real differentiation between downtube stickers (Brands).
  • 1 0
 @Notmeatall: Hard to remain neutral when there is money on the table. They clearly dont wont to offend the anti SB+ crowd, but they want the dollars of people buying high end bikes. ( I cant find a walmart bike with SB+ yet anyway Wink
  • 4 0
 I have a Dt Swiss Hugi 440 hub that has been in use since 2002. Currently sits on my Cove Hand Job. Everyone of my bikes has DT Swiss hubs as I know they will last.
  • 4 0
 Had my 240 rear hub since 2008. Conversion kit was easy to order install when changed bike Hub is still used for my primary wheelset. Good quality and light product.
  • 1 1
 @thegoodflow: According to the article, superboostplus isn't the same as the older 157 DH spacing. And indeed they don't quite like the superboostplus as even though it increases flange spacing, it also makes the hub even less symmetric (so with more dish).

As for the endcaps, indeed once the new 350 hub is in I'll try to fit them in my 440 hub. If it works, I'll use that one to build a new wheel too.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: depends if you have a 135x10 or 135x12 axle in there. If you have the 135x12 you’ll just need the end caps, which I feel like they did make, not had 440s for a while. If you have the 135x10, you’ll need the 12mm axle and end caps. The 440 axle may be a slightly bigger diameter than the 240/350. Can’t remember for sure. Like another person said, pop the end caps off your new 350 and see if they fit. If so, any new 142dt end caps will work for you. A decent local machinist should be able to help you out if not, not the most complicated part to make on a lathe
  • 1 1
 @vinay: Forget steel freehubs, and try titanium!

For anyone who's hot on these hubs (and DT in general), you ought to check out ERASE hubs as well. ERASE is a fairly young brand our of Belgium, and use a very similar engagement setup (one static ratchet, one dynamic ratchet), but come stock with 60T, instead of 18T or 36T of the standard DT 350/240. I'm not sure how they compare to these new hubs, but they were lighter than the last gen 240 hubs, and they have a titanium driver body and ratchet system. They also use angular contact bearings. We have built a couple pairs now, and they are quite nice.

A few photos of them posted in my profile gallery if anyone wants to have a peak.
  • 2 0
 @Bustacrimes: I have a DT 240s 157 hub on my "Enduro"-whatever bike, with standard XD freehub, 9-46 cassette, tall symmetrical flanges, dishless, even high spoke tension on both sides.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: you should be able to use the same end caps as you use to convert 150 to 157 as long as it was a through axle 135. You might also be able to use the boostinator on it. I'd call DT
  • 2 0
 I also have to mention how good DT is for customer service, if you ever need it. About 15 years ago I had to warranty a 240 rear hub for a cracked shell, they just switched to a new design at the time. In two days, I had a new 440 hub modified with an aluminum freehub body to be strong enough for my Clydesdale torque. The 440 would have cost significantly more, and did it quick with no extra charge. I still have that 440 running on my XC bike because I was able to convert from QR to thru-axle. Every since that experience, I always buy DT if I have a choice.
  • 2 1
 @vinay: "super boost plus", 157 trail, and the classic 150/157 DH hubs are all interchangeable. They use the same axle spacing, rotor and cassette alignment. Super boost plus hubs have gotten a new marketing name and generally have a nds flange that's been pushed outboard... because wider is more betterer, right? Not necessarily in this case, but whatevs. Maybe if you prefer to have lower spoke tension on the nds for some reason. There's nothing standardized about flange geometry, and different manufacturers have always, and continue to offer their hubs with their own flange geometry recipe, so this is nothing new. You can use any 157 DH hub in a "super boost" frame.
  • 1 0
 @Whipperman: funny - you say DT don't believe in Superboost, but they were one of the first companies to make them! Many of the first Pivot SB bikes were spec'ed with DT 350 straight pull super boost hubs.
  • 4 0
 @thegoodflow: there is merit to a dishless wheel with dead even tension. Or at lease I believe there to be. I favor that over slightly wider flanges and large disparity in tension on either side of the wheel. But that's just my personal opinion. I would be pretty content to run 157DH in a SB bike. But, it's not an easy sell to most people riding SB bikes - most insist on 157SB sp hubs.
  • 1 2
 What kind of idiot would downvote this?
  • 1 0
 @vinay: yes. I converted 440s from QR 135 to 142 TA. Same end caps as the 240 I believe.
  • 3 0
 @thegoodflow:
Your argument makes sense that even tension on both side of the wheel will make a more durable and predictable wheel. There are more than one way to get to even tension however.

Now with Asymetrical rims becoming more and more common place that is a big help for equal tension.

Spoke choice can help even out tensions and lateral stiffness as well, when I first built wheels that was my go to method. I would use straight gauge 14's on the drive side and DB 14/15 spokes on the NDS, or 14/15 on the drive side and 14/16 or 15/16 on the NDS, dependant on the application and the rider. That method worked pretty well for me.

I now prefer to use mixed lacing with 2x on the Drive or disc side and 3x on the opposing side. This tends to get the spoke tension almost exactly equal side to side and if you are using a rim with even just a small offset drilling, like 2mm you are set. It works because lateral wheel strength is driven by triangulation bracing angle and spoke length.

There is an obvious argument against moving the NDS wheel flange outboard, which is that it was already plenty strong. The wheels did hold up fine under WC DH riders, I do however wonder though now that 29" wheels look they are going to be the dominate wheel size for DH rigs if the WC riders may be wanting some additional bracing angle on those big hoops. So push that NDS flange out, get a rim with just a bit of drilling offset and perhaps use a mixed spoke pattern or spoke type, and you should have a stronger and stiffer wheel than the traditional DH hub would have been able to provide.

Just my opinion though.
  • 4 0
 I just built an entire bike around my older 12x142 and 15x100 DT 240 hubs. Lol.
  • 1 0
 @MeloBikeCO: A lot of good points there. 29" wheels certainly may call for needed lateral stiffness, and wider bracing angles should help for sure. Would love to see someone put some real effort into quantifying the difference in stiffness between 157DH vs 157SB.

Asymmetric rim profiles definitely help even out tension also on boost and super boost, though we're seeing that on a lot of the deeper offset rims, the steeper wall takes most of the load and is more prone to denting than symmetric hoops, so there is some trade off. Nobl just released their new carbon hoops with a novel profile that allows for offset spoke holes, while mitigating that decrease in dent/crack resistance that seems to be present in asymmetric rims - will be interesting to see how well it works.
  • 2 0
 @privateer-wheels:
I have always been at least a little suspicious of the really high offset rims, there is just so many forces there that are constantly changing due to normal and lateral loads. Those Nobl rims do look really interesting, and will be good to see how well they work.

I occasionally read some of the papers on bike wheels that get done through university programs and there is typically some good info to be gleaned from them.

Like this one: people.duke.edu/~hpgavin/papers/HPGavin-Wheel-Paper.pdf

But there are a lot of them out there.
  • 1 0
 @MeloBikeCO: Thanks for that!
  • 1 0
 Preach!!!
  • 1 0
 @Ron-C: Whoa, I never considered this, but it applies to me too. I just weighed 148 lbs at the doctor's office

0_o
  • 1 0
 @MeloBikeCO: you make some good points. A couple years ago I built a set of 100/142 wheels using pro4 front and dt350 rear hubs, and asymmetric carbon rims. Agreed that asymmetric rims are a great solution in theory, but there are very few quality aluminum offset rim options available, and not everyone wants carbon. I also used DT comp spokes for the ds rear and DT comp race for the nds (vice versa for front). Using a narrower guage spoke for the low tension side doesn't actually even out tensions or increase stiffness. What it does is cause those spoke to stretch further when reaching the same given tension needed to acheive proper dish. This means that these spokes are less likely to momentarily detension during wheel flex events, leading to a more durable wheel, in theory.

I've thought about that method of using 2x lacing for driveside and 3x lacing for nds (rear), but I've yet to try that. It's a good idea... doing so marginally increases the bracing angle of the driveside.

While we're on the subject, the flange geometry of some of the DT hubs is really backwards, imo. They've opted to prioritize even spoke lengths, but in doing so, they've actually further unbalanced the spoke tensions. Doing the opposite of what they've done, so tall ds flange and short nds flange, would increase the bracing angle of the ds and help balance the tensions.
  • 1 0
 @thegoodflow:
One time, I built a traditional box section road wheel for myself with 32, DT 14 gauge, 3x on drive and NDS. Worked fine for a while. But then I put on a bit of weight one winter and started breaking NDS spokes every few rides. De-tensioned the wheel replaced all the NDS spokes with 14/15 db spokes and have been riding it trouble free for the past several years.

When you run 2x drive side you do gain a tiny bit of bracing angle, but the bigger factor is that those spokes are shorter, usually by close to 10mm. Spoke length is a really big factor in lateral stiffness, and therefore spoke tension.

I agree about the hub flange sizes seeming backward on a lot of hubsets, for wheel strength. The move that really baffles me is when they make both front and rear flanges on one side the larger diameter.
  • 4 2
 I always hate the "standards" whining.

Do you buy a new car and whine about the brake pads being different? Upset you can't drop an engine between a Hyundai and a Ford? Get on Pinkcar.com and cry about how the limited slip differential on your Mazda won't work in your new Dodge?

For f*ck sake. If you don't like change, why the f*ck are you buying a new bike? Oh, you want improvements of a new bike, just only SOME improvements? I don't care that I can't swap hubs from my 2012 trail bike to my 2018 enduro, the new bike is better in EVERY SINGLE WAY. Why would I handicap it with inferior components?

The 2012 bike is still fully serviceable, I gave it to a friend for his wife to ride. $5000 MSRP bike 8 years later is basically worth nothing on the market.

Anyway, I welcome your downvotes.
  • 1 1
 @JSTootell: I think you missed the point. Innovation is great, but would be nice to be able to just pick up a frame and swap all your “lifelong” parts onto it.
  • 2 0
 @jgreermalkin: yeah, I also want to have my cake and eat it too
  • 1 2
 @thegoodflow: great addition to the conversation, thanks for your deep insight.
  • 2 0
 @jgreermalkin: right back at you. If you scroll up, I've already added plenty to the convo. What have you added aside from whining?
  • 3 0
 @jgreermalkin:
Do you want to pick a year that you wanted new standards to stop then? I have lifelong parts that I bought in the mid 90's.

Should I be mad that I can't use my 135QR rim brake Chris King Hubs, or my 1" threaded CK Headset, on my current mountain bike?
No of course not. I still do use them on my kick around on a family ride/occasional commuting bike, which happens to be a 1995 Fat Chance, which only accepts parts with old standards, and I really love that I still have them.

The point @JSTootell made was you can't have innovation in all areas of the bike without changing the standards. I don't think the original 130mm MTB rear hub would have been that great once disc brakes, 12 speed and 29" wheels were adopted. In fact it is pretty easy to imagine that if bike companies were told that you can never use anything but a 130 rear hub that we would have gotten to where we are now at all. The same thing goes with nearly every part on our modern bikes. You don't see.27.2 seatposts, 1" steerer tubes, QR hubs, not tubeless, square taper BB's on our modern bikes for a reason. Or if you want to go back further there is undoubtedly someone that would call all those "new" standards, and lament about how there 120 hub with wing nuts, wooden tubular rims and cotter pin cranks were really as far as bike tech needed to go.

Perhaps not every standard is something that you personally see the advantage of or want for your bike. But that does not mean that they are not without advantages or aren't exactly what someone else needed.
  • 1 1
 @thegoodflow: so sorry man, great work ???? you did it!
  • 1 1
 @MeloBikeCO: I love innovation. The conversation is not about innovation but about buying “forever” parts. If hub standards change so often I should prob re think my purchasing habits and start buying stuff that will last a few years at a better price point than forever parts that will last forever on a bike with outdated geometry etc.
  • 1 1
 Of course standards and sizes will change. That's what makes the proposition of components for life all the more ridiculous. They will last for life but your bike won't so what's the point?

They look nice, they feel nice when you turn the axles. Paper weights?

To each his own I guess.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Well, I actually bought a frame I expect to ride for decades. My previous hardtail frame was a compromise and I rode it for ten years. My current hardtail frame has been build exactly the way I wanted it, right down to the color. Actually I wanted something like this from the first time I saw the On One 456 Summer Season (a slacker version of the regular 456). That must have been almost ten years ago now. Back then I already thought the geometry would be fun but it would have been cool to have just that but realized with a shorter travel fork. Now I have this frame. No point not riding it 'till I can no longer ride. Of course I'll need outdated components at some point (or well, some would say my current components are already outdated sizes). I have no doubt these will continue to be available. Heck, people can still get everything for their eight speed drivetrain. I may not be able to get the latest and greatest at some point but that's fine. As long as I can continue to get the stuff to keep my bike riding as well as it does now.
  • 2 0
 @jgreermalkin:
But something like hub standards don't change that often, infact they have effectively changed once since I first got a mountain bike in 1989. That bike had a 135 rear hub, which is the same thing as a 142 hub if it is a convertible hub. Sure my Trek 950 didn't have disc brakes, but that is a separate issue.

There was an addition of DH rear hubs since then, but that hub standard was never used by bikes meant to pedal a lot of miles. The DH front hub shell was the same width as my 1989 Trek 950 would have had if it was a disc brake hub.

Then the terrible, terrible addition of he boost hub standard happened a few years back. At that time several companies were already saying that they would be just going to the DH hub width and not use boost standards on their bikes, so it was no surprise at all when a lot of the bigger tougher bikes started coming on market with 157 hub spacing.

It is safe to say that XC bikes will not likely switch to 157 hubs for at least a while, so it is likely that people will be pissed when boost gets replaced for those bikes in...based on historical standards change rates...2047. I think that if you invested, today, in a great trouble free hub like a DT 240 that you would have made a good investment. If you were investing in one of these hubs for your 2008 QR bike, you could always buy some endcaps and make it a gravel bike hub for yourself or to sell on the used market, and that hub would spin for a ton of miles after you retired that frame.
  • 2 0
 @jgreermalkin: yes, you should rethink your purchasing habits. You should start buying junk hubs for your disposable frames. Brilliant insight.
  • 1 1
 @thegoodflow: I’m guessing by your responses today you are 12 yrs old and I got under your skin. Keep you head up puberty is not the end. Enjoy the trails and keep riding buddy.
  • 1 0
 @jgreermalkin: yeah, I'm 12 and puberty is tough. Good one.
  • 51 1
 Gotta tell you - my fleet of wheels only uses 350's and 240's. I got rid of everything else. Easton, Formula etc... I have a junk drawer full of screwed up free hubs. I also have a drawer full of completely interchangeable DT Swiss parts. XD, Shimano and Spline freehubs. Never had a freehub fail or any funny business. Cannot say that for any of the other hub brands.
  • 5 1
 this. I loved a set of CK hubs for many years. They were reliable and beautiful and amazing, but the drive mechanism wears out and costs a fortune to replace compared to alternatives.
  • 5 0
 @telephunke: I've never worn out a ck drive mech and run em on most of my bikes over the years. Love my CK, but will say DT are damn reliable and simple to service.
  • 6 0
 I've been left with long hike outs due to crappy pawl failures several times. I also think high engagement pawl hubs feel draggy and slow when you're coasting. I also have converted over to DT only, they are reliable, light, and perform better than anything else I've tried.

I do kinda want to try the Onyx hubs though. They have a solid design and everyone who has them loves them. $$$ though.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: Onyx hubs are great! You get that high engagement with one of the lowest drag hubs on the market. Only downsides are cost and weight although the vespers do better in the weight category than the OG ones I have.
  • 1 2
 @slovenian6474: I do want to try them. I don't really get the appeal of CK, I9, Hope high engagement. They feel like a draggy brake!
  • 1 1
 @dthomp325: One of the things Onyx does in that category as well is hybrid ceramic bearings are standard. If you look at all the pump track competitions, 80% of them are on onyx.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: What is the word on Onyx lifetime? They seem like they'd hold up to wear and tear quite well too but I don't know much about their history.
  • 1 0
 @slovenian6474: they stopped doing ceramic earrings standard. Now it’s an up charge
  • 5 2
 @big-red: I don't know of anyone who's worn out the sprag clutch on Onyx, and they are easy to service, though the grease needed is a little bit expensive. Onyx hubs are stellar. Lowest drag of any hub, fantastic bearings, well sealed. Vesper hubs are close to the weight of CK hubs - not the lightest, but weight at the center of the wheel matters much less that weight at the extremity of the wheel - the efficiency gains of the low rolling resistance and instant engagement far outstrip any increase in weight.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: I totally agree with you. Pedaling efficiency by many engagement points is greater than expected.
  • 1 0
 @fsr-dh: There is a study floating around somewhere by Duke University that I believe supports a 5% gain in efficiency from the clutch mechanisms instant engagement and low drag.
  • 2 1
 Fatbike has 350s, xc bike 240s, gravel 370s? The pawl ones.

All flawless.
  • 1 0
 I agree. Why bother looking anywhere else when DT stuff is so reliable, simple, durable, and reasonable considering how long they last.
  • 1 0
 @slovenian6474: onyx has a 5 month warranty on bearings, joke
  • 1 0
 @senorbanana: Damn! That's nothing.
  • 23 4
 You can tell a lot by someone’s hub choice. Dt 240’s are no frills, no BS, get her done kind of hubs. No flash here, just ride hard every day. Honest, simple and works.
  • 68 1
 I think what you just described is DT350..
  • 2 31
flag Bustacrimes (Apr 30, 2020 at 6:52) (Below Threshold)
 @i-am-lp: As he said, the choice says a lot about the person. For the modest increase in price the DT240 is the better option.

The DT350 is better for those who ride occasionally and probably dont maintain their bike as well.
  • 28 1
 @Bustacrimes: the 'modest price increase' is about double... and 350s are the same maintenance free, reliable, and solid platform as the 240, just with a bit more weight.

Many many many people that ride a lot have them on their bikes, so don't trash them or the people that ride them.
  • 32 1
 No frills? It's a $450USD rear hub! That's pretty frilly IMO.
  • 20 3
 @Bustacrimes: The 350s are literally the exact same hub as 240 with less material cnc'd off.
  • 8 2
 @goldencycle: +1
240s is for weight weenies, no performance gain at all. I had 240s in the past,great hubs. 350s for the past 5 years,just as great just cheaper..
  • 7 1
 @dthomp325: And not as good bearings. I've had to do zero maintenance to my 240's over the years, but the 350's that came OEM on a bike needed new bearings within a year. But yeah, upgrade the bearings to the same quality as the 240 and you're good to go.
  • 2 9
flag tripleultrasuperboostplusplus (Apr 30, 2020 at 8:57) (Below Threshold)
 @lenniDK: The "performance" gain in the 240s, for me, is the quieter hub versus the 350s. My riding experience is greatly enhanced by bombing through the dense forest on a quiet hub. The price difference is insignificant for this benefit to me.

That said, I didn't see anything in the article about whether or not the sound profile of the new 240 has changed.
  • 9 0
 @tripleultrasuperboostplusplus: They use the same ratchet system in both hubs. The only volume difference would be the amount/type of grease you use in the freehub.
  • 2 0
 @dthomp325:
I think that the 240 has always had the flanges cut at an angle as well, to match the spoke angle. Probably doesn't change much of anything as far as the wheel strength goes, but it is likely another way that allowed them to make the hub marginally lighter while adding quite a few dollars to the manufacturing cost.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: fwiw, I think the largest factor in the price difference is the stainless steel bearings in the DT 240s more so than the (ever so slight) weight difference. Those are quite a bit pricier per bearing than the regular steel bearings used in the 350. But if you take care of the bearings in your 350 hubs, there's no reason to pay extra for the fancy-pants ones =).
  • 1 0
 @i-am-lp: Yep, the 350s are great hubs.
  • 1 0
 @shlotch: The inner bearing is the hardest to remember to clean and relube. And a 'special tool' and a vice and a long rod for leverage hard to loosen to get to and replace.
  • 18 1
 Silence is golden though.
  • 8 0
 pedal morerer!!
  • 10 3
 Except for the Angry Bees Smile
  • 5 0
 whenever I had a super loud hub, I felt like I had more pressure to "send it" whenever I saw people gathered to the side of a jump/drop/rock garden.
  • 4 1
 @Ron-C: Im surprised people are so in tune with your rear hub noise
  • 16 1
 Fact. Can’t beat that sweet Onyx silence
  • 2 0
 I've got a Syntace MX rear hub which has a similar freewheel mechanism and it is pretty noisy. They actually sell a "silencer kit" which has a different spring layout and it supposedly makes the mechanism more durable too. Makes you wonder why that isn't the standard layout in the first place. Apparently more noise at the expense of durability is worth it.

That said, Syntace uses oil for lubrication whereas DT uses grease so I can imagine the DT hub isn't that noisy.
  • 19 0
 @zyoungson: they might not be. it's called the yeti effect. You hear the buzz of i9 hubs coming around the corner, the turquoise of the latest yeti frame, carbon fullface, enve stickers, and, and... the guy ends up taking the bypass route of the rollable feature.
  • 1 0
 @Ron-C: dont put in your bike anything that stops you from sending it. Or you will be doublechecking the dentist line
  • 2 0
 @vinay: And that's why i've greased my hub. It's super silent, almost noiseless. I've used a very very light grease, almost an oil, and reliability is not an issue.
  • 1 0
 @Notmeatall: Have you greased the Syntace hub? Interesting. DT uses their red grease. I'm interested to see whether is supposed to work with Syntace hubs too. Syntace oil is expensive in that you don't buy it in a bottle, but you buy a syringe for every time you service them. For DT you buy it in a jar so the packaging alone is already cheaper.
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: you can always go faster; a buzzing hub is the ever present reminder
  • 4 0
 @DeepWoods831: but can beat that mushy feel when you get in the gas.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: Mine is the workhorse of the Novatec. I'm still using OLD standard. 2011 bike and all that glorious geometry!
  • 3 1
 @DeepWoods831: Not fact. Opinion.
  • 1 1
 @stevemokan: Of course, like a lot of things in mountain biking. According to Duke University though, there’s some truth to it

www.dropbox.com/s/cs2g251nz9faz14/dev-wheel-spindown.pdf?dl=0
  • 1 1
 @Grosey: I don’t mind it once I got used to it. It’s like a slightly dampered instant engagement
  • 3 1
 @DeepWoods831: You're gonna have a hell of a lot of wheel deceleration when the cheap ass Enduro bearings inevitably degrade or die. The bearings DT Swiss uses in the 240 are miles better than what Onyx uses. Sorry.
  • 1 2
 @LeDuke: I haven’t had an issue yet (knock on wood), but if I do I learned from a mechanic a while ago you can do a little googling and find the Japanese/Taiwanese industrial suppliers that Chris King, DT and i9 get theirs from for a tiny fraction of the price. I replaced the bearings on my DT Swiss 350 front with ceramics last year for ~$25 and they’ve been awesome.
  • 3 0
 @DeepWoods831: Iirc, CK bearings are outsourced; but are polished and heat treated in house, which is what makes the difference in construction - not to mention that they’re angular contact instead of radial. So while you might find the supplier, it’s a different bearing by the time they’re done with it.

The 240 bearings are, as others have said, quite a bit nicer than what’s in the 350, plus the hubs are convertible. Nothing wrong with upgrading bearings on a 350, but if you’re using really nice bearings and paying for labor/DT Swiss tools to access the bearings, it gets pretty expensive.

In terms of noise, enough DT Star ratchet grease will make them quieter than most pawl-based hubs on the market. Or, thin things out a bit and they’re plenty loud.
  • 1 0
 Received my DT Swiss 350 hybrid rear hub today. It is pretty silent compared to the Syntace hub. Not completely silent, just a bit like a Shimano hub.
  • 16 4
 I'm still hating DT for making me pay extra money for a steel freehub. Their hubs, being that expensive, should include a bite-resistant freehubs by default, with shitty aluminium freehubs as an option for weight weenies, not the other way round.
  • 2 0
 I feel like alu freehubs should be banned. Terrible material for the purpose. Maybe the new shimano microspline will help, but till then I want steel. Even my Ti freehub that came with the WI hubs I have are gouged Frown
  • 2 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: All of my XD freehubs are still in perfect working order...
  • 1 0
 @LeDuke: Glad to hear it. I've not had such good luck. My Steel Chris King Driver from 2015 is like new, though. My excuse is my quads of steel, Dadbod and steep out of the saddle hardtail climbs.
  • 2 0
 100% agree that steel is a better choice of material for a freehub body. That is the main reason that I have purchased Hope hubs instead of DT in the past. My LBS can order a hope hub with a steel freehub body standard, but DT won't do it.
  • 2 0
 Yep, Backwards. American Classic designed a steel lip to protect their aluminum hub bodies – worked great. Why won’t DT quality/durability masters do it already??
  • 15 0
 So, how about the all new 350HUBS
  • 7 1
 For those who moan about the evolution of hub widths over the years, please keep in mind this was driven almost 100% from the big manufacturers who develop bikes with one eye firmly focused on marketing. ''6.3% more laterally stiff'' and so forth.

DT was always flexible and helpful to make quality hubs for whichever 'standard' you needed, but they were not the driving force.
  • 5 0
 So many positives with DT Swiss hubs. Built super solid, easily rebuilt and maintained, replacement parts are easy to get, and silent free hub. However, one thing I hope they will do in the future is have more hub caps to convert to different hub standards.
  • 5 0
 so on my YT i got DT Swiss 1900 wheelset and it had the 370 hubs. I stripped the threads inside of the hub 1.9 years later. Called DT and they said send it in. I shipped it on a Monday they got it Wednesday. They rebuilt the wheel with a upgraded hub with new spokes and shipped it same day. I got it Friday... DT Swiss have helped me out before they have the best customer service!!!
  • 9 4
 I had at least 5-6 wheelsets with DT240 hubs (specially with Enve rims) and these hubs are absolutly understructables.

They are light and bombproof. No reason for me to go somewhere else.
  • 53 2
 I have many leather bound books and my office smells of rich mahogany
  • 2 16
flag 3riders (Apr 30, 2020 at 5:38) (Below Threshold)
 @guylovesbike: Good for you! Guylovesbike doesn't love people. Peace on dirt man.
  • 2 0
 There is a slight drag in them I could do without
  • 2 0
 @guylovesbike: back in the day I wore an onion on my belt Because that was the style of the day
  • 1 0
 @weebleswobbles: give me 5 bees for a quarter
  • 1 0
 @marktuttl3: we can't bust heads like we used to... One truck is to tell stories tat don't go anywhere. Gotta love Grandpa Simpson!
  • 1 0
 @marktuttl3: *trick
  • 6 0
 Am I the only one who doesn't like the idea of incorporating one half of the ratchet into the break-your-bench-vise-while-attempting-to-remove threaded ring?
  • 3 0
 No, I'm a little skeptical too. I actually did literally break a bench vise removing the drive ring out of a 240s.... cracked the casting of the base and the rest of the vice landed on the floor right next to my feet.
  • 1 0
 @thegoodflow: Mine hasn't actually broken yet, but the jaws of my vice are permanently misaligned by a few mm. They really need to design a new tool that has more to grab on to. Having such small flats just puts a massive load on the vise.
  • 1 0
 @DaneL: to be fair, it was a cheap vice, but still. Agreed that the tool is designed poorly. I've got the Enduro dt tool set, but it's the same way. It should have two big flats rather than 4 small ones.
  • 1 0
 Glad you brought this up.
a. so much for simplicity when servicing the hub
b. go find that 3ft steel tube to use as a extension on your wrench now and break out the MAP torch. I have removed a few ratchets in my day and can say when you have a 200+lb rider that places "x" amount of torque into a wheel, its a bitch to get them to release without damaging something in the process.
  • 4 0
 They are nice but I just can't see how they're worth that much more than Hope Pro 4s. I've had 4 years of riding a set and not had to replace a bearing yet so I'll put the couple'o hundred quid difference towards my Fox servicing Frown ((
  • 7 4
 Great hubs and super reliable, but the defense of using low points of engagement sucks. Low POE hubs suck and stock 240s having 10 deg of engagement upgradable and a significant cost to over 6 deg is a non starter for me personally. After riding high POE hubs for the last few years (currently on i9 Hydras) I'll never go back.
  • 3 0
 Agreed. If I only did downhill I would care less about engagement. But if you live int he PNW, and find yourself climbing up not only long line roads but technical steep off camber cornery single tack, quick engagement hubs make all the difference. That said, Im on Torch right now and they've been great. Super quick. But I've had 350's and put the 54 tooth ratchet upgrade and they were great as well. Crazy how that little ratchet though was $120 upgrade.
  • 4 0
 @johnnygolucky: Ya, I'm obviously a big fan of high engagement. I'm not sure, are there really people out there who don't prefer it, assuming price isn't a factor, since they do tend to be more expensive?? Only downside referenced here and elsewhere is pedal kickback, but when I'm going downhill I don't typically notice it because the hub is spinning quickly, and climbing i don't really notice it because I'm engaging the hub and how much travel are you really using while climbing?

I'd never buy these until they include the 54t as standard. In cheapers 350s I think it's fine but not top end hubs.
  • 1 0
 @tgent: Not here. Low engagement is a nuisance. Pedal kickback is a thin argument.
  • 4 0
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but you now need a special tool to remove the ratchet on the inboard side to change it ? and the ratchet kit comes with a bearing?
  • 1 0
 @EnduroriderPL: that's the tool for the old version of the star ratchets. This new one is going to require a different tool. It's hard to tell in the photo above, but it appears that the nds ratchet/drive ring has a smaller diameter spline sitting outboard of the bearing.
  • 1 0
 @Ploutre : yes, you'll now need a special tool to change the nds ratchet. But, with the old hubs, you needed a special tool to remove the drive-ring and replace the drive-side bearing anyway, which in my experience was the first to go. So now the nds ratchet and the drive ring have been consolidated into one piece and you'll still need to remove it to access the bearing.
  • 1 0
 @thegoodflow: don't worry, they'll have it soon Smile
  • 1 0
 It looks like it may take a cassette tool from the fuzzy pictures in the article.
  • 1 0
 @MAtechshit: hopefully that is true and it does seem a bit like it.

The upgrade probably comes with the bearing since you have to knock it out of the old one otherwise, ruining it. Therefore you need a new one anyway. Why not just mount it?
  • 1 1
 Yeah, I see it, and I have my fingers crossed that they did something sensible like used the cassette locking standard from Shimano. Should be about the right size, and would save needing a different tool. Vital really considering that the bearing now sits under it.
  • 1 0
 And if anyone's removed the fixed ratchet/ring drive to service/replace the drive-side bearing, be prepared to buy another tool, to replace the one you break getting the factory torque off. #Shit'sTight!
  • 1 1
 @koalaplow: Probably glued in.
  • 1 0
 Here is the part number: HXTXXX00N8387S

www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=102027

From the manufacturer's point of view, it's not the best idea to use an existing tool standard for this interface because you cannot control what tool is used at the consumer level, and a lot of mechanics and end-users will damage hub components using worn or poorly-manufactured tools.
I do however agree that the interface with the vice should be two wider parallel surfaces and instead of six sided.
  • 1 0
 @DavidSA: So another custom tool. Awesome.
  • 8 2
 They've even made 6 Bolt look good...
  • 3 0
 The best hubs out there by some margin. I have Hope, CK, Hadley, Tune etc But the DT's just keep going and going when the others have failed so many times.
  • 1 0
 Given that rear suspension kinematics have drastically improved over the years to reduce or eliminate pedal kickback, DTS's point against a higher tooth count is moot. The advantage of more points of engagement (Industry 9, Novatec, Chris King) outweighs weight penalties. Thats my $0.02.
  • 1 0
 both my 148 dt240S had bearing seat issues. the seats were cut too deep, putting so much transverse tension on the bearing. i had to install a couple thousandths of shims on both hubs to cut down on the bearing drag. they told me not to shim them, but i did and they now work alot better. my 142 240s have been flawless. other than that, their customer service and support have been top notch.
  • 2 1
 Is that a bead blasted ano finish instead of the crappy paint they'd always used? Halelujah. On any 240 or 350 set of hubs I've owned, it'd get veins and chip around the hub flange before the first set of bearings wear out.
  • 3 0
 Best hubs on the market get better. All I run is dt swiss 240/350 hubs and for good reason
  • 2 0
 I have had the same set of DT 240s hubs on my last 4 bikes. Still on the original bearings. I am a DT Swiss customer for life.
  • 2 0
 Back when I built my first set of downhill wheels I came across Hadley Racing hubs. That was good and bad, because now I am totally spoiled.
  • 1 1
 So pretty much the same refinement to the star ratchet that Shimano used for the new not-quite-Scylence hubs. Never did make sense to have two springs in the system... That said, it's also never really caused many problems to have two springs in the system, so I'll continue to happily use my 240s and will keep an eye out to pick more up for cheap as stores and riders shift to the new EXP hubs.
  • 1 0
 You've always needed a DT tool to get at the inner drive side bearing on DT hubs, but these are very well protected so its pretty rare that you have to do it.
  • 1 0
 And if you look on ebay, there are copies of the tool for roughly £10 for the older 240/350 hubs.
  • 2 0
 Besides all the cons and all those every minute changing standards, the simplicity of this ratchet system still impresses me
  • 2 0
 This bike sucks. It doesn’t even come with wheels or a frame or a front suspension. Not even handlebars. Lame.
  • 2 1
 And it looks too much like a session
  • 2 1
 With these new ratchet design you can't replace ratchets rings on terrain.....otherwise it is looking really good and reliable.
  • 1 0
 I have nice old pair of FR2050s that will be swapped from 20x110 to 15x100 by the end of next week and that gives them new life. So hubs for life? Maybe.
  • 2 0
 The king is dead! Long live the king!
  • 3 1
 DT, you are every mechanics best friend.
  • 3 0
 Until you have to replace that drive side bearing
  • 1 0
 What size bearing cartridge are these using, still 6902, or something else?
  • 2 3
 Some things are subjective and opinion based. This isn't; 240's are the best hubs and that's a fact. Disagreement just means you made a bad buying decision but secretly know you should have bought DT Swiss.
  • 2 4
 But does it sound like a group of angry bees? Cause I’m not interested if it’s quiet
  • 4 0
 the 54T is pretty loud
  • 4 3
 Loud hubs are noise pollution
  • 1 0
 @tempest3070: I'm pretty sure he's kidding...
  • 1 0
 Syntace. I have one of their ratchets in a wheel. Damn thing is so loud that you just keep pedalling to keep it quiet.
  • 3 4
 I can't believe I'm still using 36pt.Shouldn't 54pt be the basis now?
  • 5 0
 Apparently not. Current reportings make me think I should downgrade from my 54 upgrade to the original 36 to have less pedal kick back (if I have any, I don't know). :-)
  • 3 0
 they think that 36t offers the best balance between performance and maintenance needs/reliability - ratchets with more teeth are more sensitive and will wear at a faster rate if they are not cleaned regularly
  • 5 0
 Faster engagment always means a finer mechanism with smaller teeth and, all other things being equal, this is always going to be less reliable and less able to cope with stuff getting into the hub than chunkier but slower engageing systems. DT have clearly decided that 36 tooth is a the sweet sport for balancing reliabilty and engaement but at least they give you the option of fitting a 54-tooth whereas with most hubs you're stuck with what you get. I've run 54-tooth ratchets on my hardtail for years with no problems but I also tend to clean and regrease my ratchets a few times a year when my bike gets a 'proper' deep clean, it's an easy job but if you're more 'fit and forget' you may be better off with the 36 tooth version.
  • 4 1
 It depends, when going down you have far less drag while coasting. It can make the difference in time trials for pro-roadies. You won't believe it unless you give it a try! I moved back from 36T to 18T on my road bikes and from 54T to 36T on my mountain bikes.
  • 1 0
 ..
  • 4 1
 @hatter: 1. Ratchet ring engagement stiffness is the number of teeth rather than the size of the plaque. This is because the load generated is divided by the number of teeth. Also, the load may be lower if the number of factors.

2. The smaller the movement, the less wear on all metal combinations. This means that the lubricating oil is less polluted. 54pt is less active than 36pt. This means less lubricant contamination.
(If 54pt is more polluted than 36pt, the Crisking Hub is a product that suffers from a huge pollution problem.)

Have a nice day. Smile
  • 2 1
 @Euskafreez: I really don't think the difference is that substantial. I've got all three different ratchets and I've never noticed.
  • 3 0
 @fsr-dh: Nicely explained, thank you.
  • 7 0
 @Euskafreez: Dare I say that super duper high POE on a bike is overrated? I am open to being convinced I’m wrong. The biggest argument I hear for it is so riders can ratchet up techy sections. I have rarely seen anyone actually do that, and if they do it’s a small fraction of their total ride. I’ll take less drag on the 99.9% of the rest of my trail ride and suffer through that .1% tech section with only 36t.
  • 2 0
 @rossluzz: I don't think it makes as big of a difference as the companies like I9 want you to think it does, however not gonna lie it is kinda nice. It is more about the "feel" that it gives your bike, rather than the actual perfomance. Riding in New England tech it was super nice, made my bike feel a lot more responsive and jumpy on up/down/up/down/up/down techie stuff. Bike gets up and goes right away. Now I live in Utah where riding is more long ups and long downs. Less noticeable in this type of terrain for sure. I rode a buddies bike with a very low engagement hub and honestly it felt kind of shitty and weird (I'm being dramatic of course, but there was a noticeable lag). However if I rode it for a week I'm sure I'd get used to it and would be happy as a clam. More just a "feel" think rather than an increased performance thing. But I happen to really like the feel.
  • 2 0
 @rossluzz: I've been spoilt forever by having a really high end hub with a tiny enagement angle AND low drag. Rode my wife's bike the other day with a more normal hub and it felt so clunky and disengaged on climbs by comparison. With 36 points of engagement that's up to 10 degrees of slack and in bottom gear that might translate to 15 degrees at the crank, or over 40mm at the pedal. It's not hard to see how this can easily be the difference between cleaning a climb and getting off to push. There's no drag at all when you are pedalling and I'm sure I'm pedalling more of the time than not, and when I am freewheeling I'm on the brakes anyway so who cares about a tiny bit more drag? Dont know where you are riding that you only have to pedal 0.1% of the time but I'd like to visit :-)
  • 1 0
 @hatter: 100% agreed. I love my 54t but it's also the only one I've seen fail. The 36 is more robust especially if you don't do regular maintenance.
  • 1 0
 @eoisaacs: Agreed. The only star-ratchet I have broken was a 54t.
  • 2 0
 @rossluzz: It's less drag while coasting that I was talking about, not less drag while the star ratchet is engaged. In any case the DT design is great with drag, but while coasting it has an edge over its competition. Not that it matters that much for us mortals, but it's nice to have it. A high PoE helps yes, it's not like it's useless because some people can't deal without it, I don't care if it's a placebo or not as long as it works, you know what I'm saying? 36T is the sweet spot for me, 54T is nice to have and I do like the way it buzz. But man, how funny it is when coasting to overtake your mates without a pedal stroke lol . Plus the Ratchet system is by far the most reliable system I've worked with and used over the last 20 years.
  • 1 1
 It's about damn time....
  • 3 5
 These reads so much like an advertisement that I can’t take it seriously.
  • 11 0
 This is a press-release driven marketing website that costs you nothing.
  • 4 0
 That's exactly what it is. Should they downplay their hubs in the press release?
  • 1 0
 Well yeah, but it’s supposedly written by a Pinkbike person. Why not just admit that DTSwiss’s marketing team wrote most of it?
  • 1 2
 In B4 RMR goes on a rant about how pedal kick doesn't actually exist...
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2021. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.038001
Mobile Version of Website