First Look: Evil's New Loophole Wheels are USA-Made With "FusionFiber"

Aug 26, 2021
by Seb Stott  


Evil Bike Co. has launched a new wheelset called Loopholes. The rim is made from CSS Composites' FusionFiber, which uses long-chain polymers instead of epoxy resin to hold the fibers together. According to Evil, this has a few advantages. They claim "a 20% improvement in impact resistance over comparable carbon fiber rims", "a perfect balance of stiffness and compliance" (naturally), "50% improvement in vibration damping" and "noticeably quieter than traditional carbon wheels".

Not only that, Evil says the epoxy-free rims are easier to make with automated processes, meaning less manufacturing waste, and they're fully recyclable. I've never seen a carbon rim recycling point at my local recycling centre, so I asked Evil how that will work logistically. "Recycling will be handled through Evil," Cal Jelley from Evil tells me, "so if someone destroys a rim they will send it back to us and we will get them off to our manufacturer to be recycled. Automated cutting [during manufacture] means there is no wasted material, and recycling FusionFiber is as simple as shredding it into short fibres. These can be directly repurposed into new compression-moulded parts for other commercial uses with zero-waste."

Evil Loophole Details
• "FusionFiber" rim uses polymer, not epoxy resin, which is claimed to improve strength and vibration absorption.
• Intended use: Trail, Enduro, Freeride & DH
• 29" only (for now), Boost or SuperBoost spacing
• 1,940g claimed weight (XD driver)
• 480g claimed rim weight
• Reinforced spoke bosses
• 29mm internal width
• Industry Nine Hydra hubs
• 32 J-bend spokes per wheel, 2-cross front, 3-cross rear
• Made in the USA
• Lifetime original-owner warranty
• £2,299.99 / €2,499.99 / $2,200
evil-bikes.com



bigquotesWe call them Loopholes because we get around a few problems which have not been addressed by current wheels.Evil Bike Co.

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As for the claims about more damping translating to a smoother ride, I remain skeptical. Any wheel is much stiffer than the tire and the suspension on either side of it, so the role wheels play in comfort and compliance is easy to overstate. A 50% increase in damping sounds impressive, but the damping ratio of a standard rim is so low that a 50% increase might not be a huge deal in terms of the bike as a whole.

Okay, skeptical sidenote over.

The front is laced 2-cross while the rear is the standard 3-cross pattern.
Reinforced spoke bosses should prevent spokes pulling through.

The rims are claimed to weigh 480g, which is lighter than many carbon rims these days, especially ones which are rated for anything up to DH use. Visibly reinforced spoke holes are claimed to increase the force required to pull a spoke through the rim by 15%. The wheelset weight varies a bit depending on freehub standard and rear hub width (Boost 148 or SuperBoost 157), but the claimed weights start at 1,940g (XD, 148mm). Sure, there are lighter alloy wheels, but the lifetime original-owner warranty is not to be sniffed at, and arguably suggests Evil expect them to last.

They are built on Industry Nine Hydra hubs with 32 J-bend Sapim D-Light spokes per wheel. The front is laced two-cross for extra compliance.

Evil says the wheels are available soon, but only as a complete wheelset and only in 29" for now. We're hoping to get a set in for test soon.


202 Comments

  • 184 1
 Loophole indeed!

They claim to have made manufacturing more efficient, so they pass on the "savings" to the customer in the form of more expensive wheels.
  • 43 1
 Infinite money loophole lol
  • 104 1
 They're going to find a loophole when you crack them and try to get a replacement.
  • 24 1
 Downcycling = recycling through this one secret loophole (a.k.a. greenwashing)
  • 36 2
 And heavy. How do heavier, more expensive carbon wheels make any sense? Your garden variety Flow MK3's are some 70g lighter, and much lighter than that in cost.
  • 6 0
 @jeremy3220: comment of the day
  • 35 0
 @skylerd: Can we all agree that fusion fiber is not an actual green initiative?

"okay so you broke a rim? yeah just pack it up and ship it halfway around the world back to us, and we'll pack it again and send it halfway across the country back to the manufacturer so that they can "recycle" it."

Yep, that sounds about bike industry correct.

pbs.twimg.com/media/EOX_2n_WsAAhdZE.jpg
  • 6 4
 I was hopeful for carbon and bought my first set of carbon wheels in December. Ride quality was excellent. Fast forward to June...rear rim cracked on a small square edge in normal riding (no air, no drop). Sold the front wheel and gave away the rear warranty rim. That was enough proof for me.
  • 7 0
 @foggnm: What brand? Makes a big difference on who made them. I have cracked Specialized and Giant but have many good years on NOBL TR 38 and TR 33
  • 7 2
 @foggnm: I'm still riding my Reserves for 4 years on a few different bikes (including the latest, a Levo SL) and at bike parks. Still riding great and true. My DT Swiss XM481 is dented up pretty good after one season, great rim but still needs more maintenance and doesn't seem as durable as either my Reserves or my carbon CB Synthesis.
You can have bad luck in either aluminum or carbon and they are all definitely not equal in quality but so far I've better luck with carbon.
  • 3 1
 @zarban: I've heard similar + carbon from friends and I believe it. But having 25+ years on alloy with no catastrophic failures...and 6 months on carbon with a catastrophic failure.....the data was in for me. I'd probably get something like an M730 if I tried it again....heavy, burly, with included rim strip. The rim I had was from a very reputable company and they did a great job warrantying the wheel. But I stick to what works. And it didn't....for me. And I'd hate to be out on something like an epic ride in Moab and have a cracked carbon rim that I couldn't fix.
  • 21 2
 Exactly. Like everyone who bought a wreckoning and broke it. I personally know 5 people all of whom were forced to pay $450usd crash replacement for their cracked rear ends. You should’ve seen the emails. Knee slappers like, “we think the heel of your shoe hit it so we aren’t going to warranty” or “we think that maybe something bumped it while you were shuttling so we aren’t going to warranty “ @jeremy3220:
I also love the claims of superiority vs other brands. Pinkbike please put these in a head to head comparison test against the other leading brands! I’ll get the popcorn ready.
  • 9 0
 @theedon: oh yeah i would love to see a incognito test where they test companies customer service and warranty departments
  • 7 12
flag squidcore (Aug 26, 2021 at 14:12) (Below Threshold)
 @theedon: I’ve never heard of anybody breaking a Wreckoning. I know quite a few who have had them without any issues including myself. I’ve been riding my v1 for nearly 4 years on fast rocky trails, big jumps, drops into rock gardens, been crashed into by other people, been crashed hard myself countless times and aside from chipped paint it still rides just fine with no signs of stress. Makes me seriously doubt the legitimacy of these broken rear triangles.
  • 2 0
 "...recycling FusionFiber is as simple as shredding it into short fibers. These fibers can be directly repurposed into new compression-molded parts for other commercial applications with zero waste."

uh, I don't think that's how recycling works, down-cycling maybe, at beast. The parent companies behind CSS don't seem to make any mention of their green initiatives.
  • 5 0
 @theedon: I remember reading how they declined one guys warranty because he had posted on MTBR about his issues.
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU: And you can just shove them in your recycling bin when they're done.
  • 5 0
 Haha! Oh man. Why would I lie? Smear campaign? It was so bad. I’ll specifically tell you it was 4 rear triangles and 2 front triangles at where the linkage mounts to the frame. It’s cool that you’ve had good like with yours, but it doesn’t mean others have had the same experience. I hope they’ve turned the corner, but if I’m being honest, I’m skeptical. Happy trails @squidcore:
  • 2 0
 @theedon: I've owned two Wreckonings, and neither has broke.
  • 5 1
 @jerrytek: people probably envy you for that.
  • 2 2
 @makripper: Have you ever had an Evil bike?
  • 2 0
 Recyclable and made in the USA. Idk it’s a nice option to have for some people.
  • 3 1
 @jerrytek: unfortunately yes.
  • 4 0
 @SlodownU: This! For that price you can buy extra sets of Flow wheels to have on standby. (and lets face it, with carbon rims most people keep alu wheels on standby anyway just in case you have to use that warranty!)

I don't get how they are starting with a 480gr rim and ending up with a 1940gr wheelset for 2200? That is not a convincing value argument IMO...???
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: ...this . this is the field test that needs to happen. especially since the bike tests all sound the same now anyway.
  • 6 0
 For anyone at a bike company reading these comments, just to let you know that these stories of bad customer experience really matter - at least to me. I'm in the initial stages of new bike foreplay and these stories of warranty pain have probably removed Evil from my shopping list. There are several other brands off the list for the same reason (YT being one of those from personal experience of another issue).

I know I'm only one person and demand is sky high at the moment, but I'm guessing I'm not the only person to see these threads and have second thoughts about certain brands. Reputation does matter.
  • 1 1
 @SlodownU: my exp with ex3s was not good.
The lost tension and broke with some regularity.

My we are ones with light tires and the same inserts have been without fault.

5 ex3s is one WAO that they will replace I'd I break. The math works for me.
  • 1 2
 @spinzillathespacelizard: musy have had a shit wheel builder
  • 2 1
 @Woody25: I would recommend taking these types of comments with many grains of salt.

Evil had a very significant manufacturing issue back in the Revolt/Undead days, and they were overwhelmed with warranty claims. There are a few interviews with the owner of Evil about this, as it just about put them out of business. The company rebooted, found new manufacturers, and started making bikes again. This was around the time that the first Following launched.

I've owned a three Evil bikes since then (a Following and two Wreckonings). I was concerned about the company's track record, but talked to people at a local Evil shop that sells a lot of their bikes (Fanatik in Bellingham), and they told me that they had not had many problems. Before purchasing a new Wreckoning last January, I asked a few guys at the same shop (people I know, off the record) and they told me that they did not have any systemic problems with Evil bikes: bikes weren't breaking more than other brands, and they were reasonable with warranty/replacement policies. I was deciding between a few frames available at the same shop, and asked three people I've worked with quite a bit. They had no reason to lie to me. Fanatik sells a LOT of Evil frames, so I trust their feedback more than anecdotes from people posting here that I've never met.

I mention this as a counterpoint to grievances posted here that clearly date back to the early stages of the company's history, as well as people who are just trolling (makripper). Evil is still working to rectify the company's image, but I think its fair to say that things are different now. They got hit with a perfect storm of manufacturing problems early, but their bikes are solid now.
  • 2 0
 He said, she said . All the bikes I’m talking about were also purchased from Fanatik and were Wreckonings and followings. You should ask them again maybe. Haha. Front triangles held up pretty well except where the linkage bolts to it. The main problem for all of us was the rear triangles. The chainstays snapped. I get it. It’s your local company and there’s some pride there, but a couple years ago, they were lemons. Hopefully better now. The more PNW brands the better I say! @jerrytek:
  • 73 5
 Great to see our friends at Evil utilizing this revolutinary material too! We think FusionFiber and the more sustainable manufacturing process it provides is the future. Cheers!
  • 6 1
 Agreed! Love seeing the shared passion. My RW’s totally blew my mind.
  • 21 0
 What a bunch of Rascals you all are.
  • 5 3
 they say you can judge a man by his friends...
  • 2 0
 Agreed! And made in the USA! Hopefully, we'll see other products showing up in FusionFiber....
  • 1 1
 Great plug!
  • 62 6
 Evil lifetime warranty..........ahahahahahahahahahahaha
  • 54 8
 So I paid 1/3 the price for an aluminum wheelset which weighs 200g less, and has the great feeling (and fixabiloty) of aluminum rims. I don't understand this obsession with carbon wheels?
  • 31 22
 Durability and reliability.
  • 43 27
 @erikkellison: no, that's why you buy aluminum wheels...
  • 1 0
 What wheelset do you have?
  • 29 0
 Try a We are One and it will change your mind. I can't break them, it's impossible so far haha. And complete peace of mind with warranty. Once you smoke an alloy wheel you're trying to play doctor and move metal around, and then deal with sealing and burping issues etc. Sure you can limp down the hill on a taco's alloy. But I've found the likelihood of total destruction requiring replacement to be much higher with alloy. Once you smoke one and have to replace it there goes your cost savings. And WAO's feel just as good as an alloy to me.
  • 14 5
 @ratedgg13: Absolutely not. Alloy rims get dinged, get flatspots, constant truing and repairing and replacing is not fun. Just get some proper carbons and have peace of mind of bombproof wheelset covered by warranty for those oh-s**t moments.
  • 4 0
 @Nwilkes: Just cracked a very burly enduro rim which honestly says more about my poor line choices than being fast or anything. Replacing it with another of the same but gave some serious though to going with something from We are One. At 4X the price I just couldn't swing it right now.
  • 7 0
 Bikers love spending money!
  • 9 13
flag dfinn (Aug 26, 2021 at 11:16) (Below Threshold)
 @Nwilkes: I haven't destroyed an alloy rim in forever, I don't know any friends who have either. I have friends breaking carbon wheels left and right. Include WAO. Then you're dealing with having to wait for a replacement and re-lace your wheel or pay a shop to do it.
  • 7 0
 @ratedgg13 do you have a list of the carbon wheelsets you've used? For me I buy lighter-weight carbon so thats yet another benefit; but as others have mentioned....they don't go out of true, they don't dent, they don't flat, spot....and for me they are lighter. The internet comments about constantly cracking carbon wheels just doesn't seem to play out in the real world that often. I'm sure there's guys out there that run a carbon rim and destroy it every time. More power to you if that's the case, but I've never seen anyone in real life (myself, friends, etc) actually crack or break a carbon rim.
  • 13 1
 After cracking/tacoing 3 aluminum rims through this time last season i bit the bullet and bought some WAO unions. Fast forward a year, I haven't touched the wheels, they're true, and i've only become more of hack on my line choices (not sure if that's good or bad, but it's decidedly more fun). For me personally, the lack of downtime/repairs has been worth the money, let alone the potential costs of AL rims.

With all of that said, these are overpriced right now. Not sure how they're worth $550 more than the equivalent We Are One set or $300 more than the Santa Cruz Reserves.
  • 4 1
 @Nwilkes: couldn't agree more. I can't break them but my teenager managed to break one. Stellar service got him back riding in less than a week. Warranty jobs jump the queue so even during Covid with all the manufacturing bottlenecks (this was a month ago) they are offering amazing support.
  • 15 3
 I don’t understand why people make the overly simple aluminum vs carbon comparison. Far too many factors involved for the comparison to be useful. How do you ride? Where do you ride? How much do you weigh? Which carbon rim? Which aluminum rim? Once you cross a certain quality threshold, any rim is the right rim for someone.
  • 3 0
 @ratedgg13: definitely not for me. I used to go through 4 rear alum rims a season min. Been on the same carbon hoops for 2 years now and ride nearly half the pressure.
  • 2 0
 @dfinn: Come to Bromont in Quebec when you can.... It chews up bikes, and riders...
I hadn't ever had a wheel issue until riding there lots... BAM
  • 4 1
 @ratedgg13: I suppose there might be exceptions, but alloy rims are much more prone to damage than carbon, all else being equal. As others have already said, alloy goes out of true, more prone to detensioning due to increased deformity possibility, and they dent and when they do tubeless becomes an issue. Carbon has a much higher impact threshold than alloy prior to failure, stays true and tensioned, and will shrug off almost all impacts, unlike alloy. Same force, carbon trounces alloy. I have broken cheap and light carbon rims, but not WAO or CB.
Humans often want to justify their choices, and a lot of voices here seem to have that as a motive, so I can only say for myself that I stopped having to replace rims and retention/true wheels when I went to good/modern carbon. The only reason I would go back to alloy is because polished alloy looks badass, and I’d be sad when I dented them in the first 2 weeks.
  • 5 0
 @Nwilkes: I love WAO wheels. I actually obliterated my rear WAO Union coming up short on drop. WAO had a warranty replacement to me within a week. Best wheel company IMO with amazing customer support.
  • 2 0
 @ratedgg13 I would say most riders are on the same page. But like anything, if people will buy it....they will build it.
  • 11 0
 @Nwilkes: Won’t get a disagreement out of me for the WAO choice. I have had mine for 2 years now and haven’t touched them. With an excellent set of I9 hubs, I don’t even think about wheels. No mechanicals or trueings and the satisfaction that comes from top notch performance. I’m a busy dad, and if something goes wrong I factor in the time lost as money. WAO are on of the best deals out there.
  • 5 1
 @Nwilkes: My buddy cracked a rear WAO Union rim the second or so week he had it at Windrock on like his second or third run. Would a alloy rim have broken. Maybe. We got him on an alloy rim for the rest of the day with no problem. The other four of us riding were all on alloy with no problems. Well I got a slow leak and a dent that I fixed with a plug.

I'm not against carbon rims. I have a set of cross country wheels that I've had for years with only minor issues that where caused by alloy nipples. But I also ran and continue to run that same bike with alloy rims with no issue.

The fact is rims break sometimes. If you case or land sideways enough or on a square edge with enough force anything will break.
  • 2 0
 @hatton: 100%, time will tell on these. WAO are well priced and I haven't seen much is any negative comments about them. Santa Cruz Reserves but their warranty and reputation about that warranty seem bullet proof. To ask for such a high price the quality and customer service have to be top notch.
  • 1 0
 @omclive: this is exactly my thought about wheels. I dont ever want to think about them. The hub doesnt need high engagement, it needs to work. The rim needs to stay true. I get to ride once or twice a week and worrying about my wheel (Neo hubs were my nightmare) is something I just dont want to do.
  • 2 0
 Durability has been my experience with Synthesis wheels. Four seasons in and I’ve not had a failure. Park, trail, whatever, they work perfectly for me. Just moved my original set over to a new frame. I’ll say I have had an axle failure on my Hydra hub and also a drive mechanism wear out on a set with a P321 hub, but the hubs were repaired under warranty. YMMV but mine’s been fantastic.
  • 1 0
 @erikkellison: this is a joke right? Irony....? OR can you explain why every carbon rim/wheel points out the warranty over and over and over and most all the successful ones are going with "lifetime" warranty...
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: come on dude, a good chunk of carbon wheel tests have had to TEST the warranty on carbon rims due cracking during testing. It's not some internet comment phenomenon...

They do have benefits as you point out, but they are more prone to catastrophically fail... If this wasn't a real issue you wouldn't see lifetime warranty included in all the good carbon rims... AND lets not forget several of those lifetime warranty carbon rims are a lot heavier then other carbon rims so even the manufactures know light carbon is a risk.

I ride NOBL rims, so I'm not against carbon rims. But gotta be realistic
  • 30 0
 First they claim to be quieter and then they put i9 hubs in Smile
  • 4 0
 noticeably quieter* than traditional carbon wheels


*when pedaling
  • 3 0
 I love i9 but man I couldn't take the hydra sound. It was a bit much zzzzzzzzzzz for me. My 1/1 and torch hubs don't really annoy me like those hydras.
  • 1 0
 @foggnm: just gotta pedal more... Smile

JKN. BUT I actually like the buzz when descending because it really does alert people your coming. Doesn't take the place of being aware and I still have to call out now and then for people not paying attention/talking/etc. (never used a bell, I just say Hello) BUT I definitely notice people hear me much sooner with the ZZZZZZZZZZZZ's...

I totally get wanting quiet and peace sometimes while out riding and agree with that. Just it's not something I think about on a decent??? If I can't pedal through it then it's not a point in the ride that's about quiet???
  • 16 0
 Well, I reckon thermoplastic can't be both powder coated AND recyclable. I'm no super smart guy but it doesn't seem like there would be much use for a bunch of contaminated carbon scraps. I call BS.
  • 8 1
 The only plastics that can reliably be recycled at this time is polyethelene and PET. Everything else is greenwashing and probably does more harm then good.
  • 6 1
 @Konyp, technically in this case it's more of a downcycling than actual recycling, but it does seem like a slightly more eco-friendly process than what's needed to re-use traditional carbon fiber.

csscomposites.com/sustainability
  • 5 10
flag foggnm (Aug 26, 2021 at 13:00) (Below Threshold)
 I guess there are those people that feel like having a reusable grocery bag makes them the hero of the Safeway.
  • 1 0
 @foggnm: The people who genuinely care don't shop at Safeway.
  • 1 0
 @kabanosipyvo: But those caring people do have to eat, don't they?
  • 19 4
 Expensive carbon rims from a company with a sordid past when it comes to warranting and taking care of their customers for known issues with their products?
  • 9 12
 well get over it, past is the past, warranty ain't an ◣◢ downside no more
  • 2 3
 @NicolaZesty314: Yeah right, sure you know!
  • 2 1
 @NicolaZesty314: it was 2 weeks ago….
  • 19 2
 I Wreckon they wont see me make an Offering of my money for these...
  • 8 0
 Following….;-)
  • 2 0
 I feel like people will Revolt when the warrant claims start piling up. (again)
  • 12 0
 FusionFiber boasts cost savings everywhere in their production line to retail. Where the heck is the savings for consumers? Looks like it's all massive profit and massive markup for these rims and wheelsets! I'm just hoping to see carbon rims go down in price so I can finally build my own first carbon wheelset.
  • 1 0
 You know I'm a lighter rider and can get away with significantly lighter wheels. Just built up my Rascal with Specialized Roval 6D Carbon wheels . 30mm internal, DT350's 1440g and $1350 USD. These have some cool technology (wide rim edge). These are super value
  • 1 0
 @OnTheRivet: If I was going with carbon rims it would be to get a 14-1700g wheelset. Spending £2k to get a wheelset that's heavier than a good alloy wheelset makes no sense.
  • 1 0
 @OnTheRivet: I think you can build up a sweet lightweight set of carbon wheelset with DT Swiss 350 hubs and with light butted spokes for less than $1000 CAD (that's definitely less than $800-$900 USD). You'd definitely have to be really careful with going too light to save a bit of grams by neglecting nipple washer and brass nipples because the carbon rim will totally corrode the aluminum nipples in a short period of time.
  • 16 1
 that's going to be around $800'ish more than WAO... no sale.
  • 15 0
 The rent is too damn high.
  • 15 4
 What’s the point? Heavier than most and cost more than most. Better off with Light Bicycle wheels and save $1200
  • 10 0
 So you say you have found a... Loophole?
  • 3 0
 I agree these are heavy and pricey, but I learned the hard way with LB wheels. Warranty was useless, crash replacement they offered me was more than the price I paid for the rim new...and I didn't crash it.
  • 1 1
 I buy the $175 chinacarbon rims then if they break I just buy a new one. I don't bother with warranties or haggling. Only broke one in six years tho.
  • 3 1
 @JohanG: Or just buy aluminum rims and don't be terrified of questionable quality and zero QC seriously injuring you.
  • 3 0
 @nickfranko: Xiamen makes good rims. I've built about 15 sets with no qc problems. If I had chosen a name brand rim I would have spent an extra $6000 at +$200/rim.
  • 1 0
 @JohanG: I buy mine from a LBS that builds them up. If they break, the LBS will handle the replacement process. LBS has way more leverage to deal with warranty issues than a direct consumer (true with most products). However, you are spot on, at $175 rim why get worry about it. A premium AL rim such as DT Swiss cost $149. To get a equal quality name brand carbon rim costs closer to $500 per rim (which may very well be manufactured by LB.. cough NOBL cough) so as long as you don't break more than 2 you are still ahead with the LB rims.
  • 8 0
 Light rim, but the overall wheel weight is pretty normal for an enduro/DH wheel and a little heavy for a trail wheel. Has Evil overcome their poor warranty reputation yet? I think they did make good on that eventually, but people waited years for new frames. Also, that's a high price tag for something completely unproven even if the performance is exceptional.
  • 19 13
 Will never ride an evil again. Very disappointed in them. Basically ruined a whole season for me.
  • 1 0
 @zacjob agree they are very heavy for a 29mm "trail" rim. But there's nothing stopping you from running them on a trail bike then having confidence if you take your "trail" bike to a lift-service park once in a while. Not for me, but I could see it for some people depending on your agenda.
  • 2 0
 There is some horror stories as with any brand, the posts on their Facebook group are mostly positive now. I found an article/interview about how they couldn't get quality from their suppliers when they first went carbon and nearly went under. Learned their lesson and survived so I bought one.
  • 3 0
 My new Following frame (purchased in October) developed a crack in the seat tube due to a manufacturing issue. Contacted them and they had me a new front triangle 6 days later. I’ve heard they’ve had warranty issues, but my experience was excellent.

Obviously you’d hope not to have to use a warranty in the first place, but I’ve not heard of any brand that hasn’t had to replace something at some point or another
  • 1 2
 @BamaBiscuits: thats only your first time. Wait until it's the 5th frame.
  • 8 0
 I ordered a set of We Are One wheels with Onyx Classics and it was less expensive than what Evil is asking for their wheels which are built with a less expensive hub and no choice as to rim design, spokes, etc....

In my mind, a prebuilt production wheel should be less expensive than a custom wheel, right?
  • 10 0
 Wondering about any loopholes they've built into the "lifetime warranty."
  • 9 0
 Almost 2,000 grams a set and for $2200? ...
  • 1 1
 ever seen enve m70 stats? or, since these are dh approved, enve m90?
  • 5 1
 Somewhat off topic, but Evil has been great warranty wise. I had to replace the front triangle of my V3 Wreckoning and they quickly and efficiently handled the issue. Perhaps they’ve had issues in the past, but that was not my experience in the now.
  • 1 0
 Couldn't agree more; although Not a fan of the weight for the $$$$ for sure.

Something tells me most people here if having to return food at a drive through because the order was wrong they'd get the spit on specialty correction.
  • 5 0
 You know what we need?
Another rim material.
All this confrontation between aluminum and carbon is just too bipolar.
Bring on magnesium,titanium,stainless steel or wood rims! That would really spice up this comment section.
  • 7 0
 so are these thermoplastic like the GG frame and CSS/Revel rims?
  • 1 1
 I don't think it's the same as GG revved.
CSS is still thermoset I believe, I think they're actually an aerospace/defense industry manufacturer with a bike hobby company. I believe their "bread and butter" product is carbonfiber fire arms.
  • 4 0
 @chacou: No these are all thermoplastic. GG, CSS, Revel, and Evil are all the same type of carbon. GG uses a proprietary manufacturing method to make frames but its still the same stuff.
  • 1 0
 @lefthandohvhater: Gotcha, started reading more about it after posting. Yeah, thermoplastic. Looks like CSS (Revel/Evil) developed their process through aerospace and firearms manufacturing prior to entering bike market, via Christenson Arms and ACT Aero.
  • 5 1
 The problem as I see it with CSS is that they are doing things in the leading edge, premium manufacturing marketplace. I don't want to dumb down the technologies and innovation at play, but frankly, if you're open to change and can stay relevant, then all you need is money.

GG is basically using a similar process, but they did it in "what's the cheapest way we can reproduce this manufacturing process" - kind of way. I mean, there have been some QC issues at GG. The frames aren't the lightest. They aren't the most high-tech. ...but they are also producing an entire thermoset frame for almost less money than two Revel/Evil rims.

Prior to Henry Ford revolutionizing automobile manufacturing, there were quite a few small automobile manufacturers. They were expensive and often boutique items. Ford made the car affordable to nearly everyone.

I don't think GG wants to make the most premium carbon fiber bike on the market, they want to combine durability, affordability, and local manufacturing. They want to be the Henry Ford of this style of carbon construction.
  • 5 0
 As an aside, It will be interesting to see if GG ever ventures in the rim manufacturing marketplace because I could imagine them producing rims like this for half the cost.
  • 5 0
 @PHeller: 100%. I have to believe that GG will dip their toe in the wheelset game sooner or later, and when they do I expect, as with their bikes, a killer product at a killer price.
  • 1 0
 "Great to see our friends at Evil utilizing this revolutinary material too! We think FusionFiber and the more sustainable manufacturing process it provides is the future. Cheers!" -Revel bikes in this very comment section.

I guess that settles it.
  • 4 1
 I think it is nice that they're using a thermoplastic matrix and I'm surprised the reporter was skeptical about the damping claim, then mixing up stiffness and damping. How do they even manage to set up their suspension if you can't tell these apart? Damping (and impact resistance) in thermoplasts is typically higher than in a thermoset like epoxy. And the vibrations do need to pass through the rim before they can transfer through the spokes to the hub etc. So if the rim dampens these then it is going to matter. How much? You've got to ride it to find out. But trying to debunk a claim about damping by talking about stiffness doesn't quite help.

Other than that, so far the only composite rim I've seen that makes sense to me is the one without a hollow cross section: Zipp. Hollow cross sections are what you need for aluminium extruded rims to make sense (and not break due to fatigue if you make them too flexible by not giving them a large hollow cross section). But it doesn't help composite rims.
  • 5 0
 @PHeller: Its crazy to me that GG can make their frames for an insanely reasonable price using this technology and everyone making rims with it charge a premium over other carbon rims. IDK, but i love my GG frame!
  • 1 0
 Thermoplastics... is that what this is? Was really really hoping "long chain polymers" was a reference to using graphene.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I’m with you in this. Reviewer lost all credibility with me when I read that.
  • 2 0
 @cracher: Yeah, it is a bit of guesswork my side but I think it is considering their downcycling process (or recycling as they call it). The reporter mentioned "polymer" but well, thermosets are polymers too. Maybe this is PB-reporter lingo? Alloy implies aluminium alloys exclusively (so in the context of bikes, no steel or titanium alloys, no no) and polymer implies thermoplastics only. But if y'all not talkin' the PB lingo yer nevah gonna get what's goin' down.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I've found seb stotts work in the past years to be exceptionally well thought-out and knowledgeable. He has a degree in theoretical physics, and while that is not exactly specific to wheel building I have always found that he applies thoughtful scientific approach to testing. I read it as his main scepticism was how much difference a more "damped" rim could actually make in any detectable sense. I welcome a a questioning approach to PR claims. I'm sure they will be given a chance to be proven and then praised to the appropriate level.
  • 1 0
 @subwaypanda: Yeah, I don't question his knowledge but I do question his way of reporting. Especially if you have a degree in a related subject you kind of have the responsibility to communicate in a way that it doesn't cause confusion in your audience (and you should know your audience). Because your audience hopefully doesn't just read your articles, they read other articles too. So if they get the impression that polymers are thermoplastics only, they might get confused when they read an article (on a similar subject) on a different news site.

As for my initial post in this thread (regarding the distinction between spring and damper), it matters. Just like there is some confusion regarding claims that steel or titanium hardtails would ride more comfortably than aluminium hardtails. Those who disagree claim that if the steel frame is as stiff, it will be just as (un)comfortable. But it isn't about the flexibility (the spring action). It is because aluminium has less damping than steel or titanium. That's why steel and titanium sound dull compared to aluminium when you hit a tube with something hard. And it are these higher frequency vibrations which feel uncomfortable. So I think that's what the claim from Evil comes from. Doesn't quite matter whether it is in the wheel or the frame, it is still between you and the trail so it could work. It might not. You'd have to test it to be sure. But you can't try to debunk the claim by an entirely different property (stiffness instead of damping).
  • 7 2
 EX511’s on 240s hubs are much cheaper, lighter, and likely stronger. They’re also alloy, so flex and track better. But, I’m sure they’ll sell lots of these!
  • 2 0
 I actually like the ride feel of carbon. Modern carbon 29ers are not overly stiff or harsh. I think the best analogy is that their lateral flex has less "travel" than an aluminum rim, but better "damping" and "preload", if that makes any sense.
  • 1 0
 Agreed. EX511 rear and Xm481 on front is so good and so much easier on the wallet.
  • 1 0
 EX511's shouldn't be lighter...
  • 4 0
 Thermoplastic rims that are lighter and stronger than thermoset rims-I’m dubious.

Looks like another way to part fools from their money. Until something better comes along, EX511 is the way to go.
  • 8 0
 no
  • 6 1
 Hydra boost 6 bolt XD: 174+288g
64 Sapim d-light: 308g
64 brass nipples: 64g
rims @ 480g: 960g
Total: 1796g

Actual weight of rims: 575g.
  • 4 0
 I need to point out a couple of things here with your calculation -
1940g claimed weight less 1796 = 144g discrepancy. This would mean an additional 72g per rim. You should have come up with 552g per rim. But even so you're missing some stuff..

Most significantly is spoke weight:

According to Sapim's Site - 64 D-light spokes @ 260mm = 307g. Without knowing the ERD - the actual length of each spoke likely around ~35mm longer per spoke on a 29 inch wheel with a 23.2mm profile height and hydra hubs.

Also not mentioned in your add up are: Valves~10-15g, rim tape ~10g-15g depending on tape and MG nipple washers on each wheel that add ~15g.

Seems like that total built up weight per wheel difference that you're associating to the rim itself could easily and actually associated to things you didn't account for.
  • 2 0
 @bgoj22: Possibly. But I'm accounting that claimed weight is going to be low....it always is.
  • 1 0
 @bgoj22: As a reference, I have essentially the same wheelset build but with Stans Flow rims (527g) and they come out to 1980g with valves and tape.

That would put everything but rims at around 927g. So, that would put the rims around 507g assuming they included the valves and tape.
  • 2 0
 @bgoj22: don't forget they go with a 2 cross paterns up front so they save a bunch a weight there. And there is no way a manufacturer will give you the weight with tape and valve, it's like thinking a bike manufacturer will give you a weight with tubes and pedals. Every trick possible to advertise the lowest possible weight (big argument for some of us #weightweenies) will be used.
  • 2 0
 Warranty-wise...it will be interesting to see (or would be great if someone clarified) if they are like Santa Cruz and just mail you a completely new wheel (and you just send back the broken one) or if they go the path of other brands and just send you a new rim that you then need to lace up.
  • 4 6
 EVIL BIKES, I served with SANTA CRUZ. I knew SANTA CRUZ. SANTA CRUZ was a friend of mine. EVIL BIKES, you're no SANTA CRUZ.
  • 2 0
 ….or simply tell you you’re not getting a new one unless you give them £450, like they do with their frames.
  • 3 0
 What is the point of the new polymer if it doesn't save weight? 1940 grams can get you a pretty stout wheelset for a fraction of the $2200 price. Prices have gotten ridiculous.
  • 2 0
 a) epoxies _are_ polymers when they set

b) normal CFRP can be shredded and used in compression molds

so kinda nothing new here: made with new glue that can be "recycled", but it's still "recycled" the old way which is not really recycling since it's going towards a completely different material
  • 3 0
 Wait, these aren’t even light. I love carbon hoops but if I’m going to drop some coin on wheels then I want them to be light. Next.
  • 1 0
 I honestly don't understand heavy expensive carbon wheels, whats the point? They are designing carbon wheels (and other bike parts) for the 1% of huge people who break parts and everyone else gets stuck with crazy expensive carbon parts that weigh more and provide no advantage over cheaper metal stuff?
  • 1 0
 Well if they ride like alloy but don’t dent… seems nice. No?
Now about that extra $500… maybe ok as US made…
  • 7 5
 29mm internal.. not exactly narrow but i am surprised they aren't a bit wider. i can't help but think that 2 will scare a lot of people off these days
  • 1 0
 a friend of mine too, i don't get it, like if a 1mm more would make a difference lol
  • 3 1
 If they’ve managed to make them ride more like alloy rims, then it’s a welcome improvement. I don’t ride carbon wheels because I really don’t like the feel of them.
  • 4 2
 Loopholes...too long. Let's settle on holes.
So we have A-holes, C-holes and now P-holes.
But which is the glory hole, please ?
  • 2 0
 I don't think it can be recycled if its been powder-coated. The Revel wheels are also fusion fiber but they don't powder-coat them so they can recycle them.
  • 1 0
 So these are Co-op. Revel (Santa Cruz) made for evil. I'm setting up an Offering and my current wean of choices sits at Knobll, I9, We are One, and possibly these. I'm a big guy and need something stout????
  • 1 0
 Nobl wheels are pretty darn good I had TR36s that i thought i would have broken several times on sharp rocks in Tahoe on my last bike but they never even came out of true. I have my second set coming TR37s on green hydras for my new Offering V2.
  • 1 0
 @bgoj22:
Thanks, my shops really pushing the I9 stuff. But I do really like the colorway choices on the Nobl. Not that that's everything. But I've heard other good reviews of them as well. I also heard somewhere that It's wheel is made somewhere else. Thinking it was we are one. But not sure I got that right
  • 1 0
 Right so didn’t read all the comments. However. 2 cross will be stiffer than 3 cross. Shorter spokes bracing the same no of spokes, a 3 cross wheel is more compliant. 4 cross, and so on.

Come at me!
  • 1 0
 I would like a guide of rims hubs and spokes. Seems like a good economic hub with normal J bent spokes and a good aluminum rim should not be that expensive if you do your homework. I love to beat my wheels .no carbon for me.
  • 4 0
 $2,200!?!? oh go f*ck off!
  • 2 0
 This is absolutely laughable. Questionable company when it comes to warranty, a hilarious price, mediocre hubs, and they weigh so much that it's pointless to even buy them.
  • 3 0
 Glad to see a company utilizing LOCAL technology and talent. The American manufacturing bald eagle still flys!
  • 1 0
 I think had they come clean and stated Fusion fibre was derived from shredded 50 dollar bills and the loophole was a tax one, we could all collectively move on with our lives.
  • 2 0
 I'm pretty sure that if Wreckoning of these rims occur,s they'll find a loophole for not Offering you any warranty. Just Evil.
  • 1 0
 Probably can sort it out by just Calling them
  • 1 0
 @ThePhil: Im not quite Following this...
  • 8 4
 Dentists ASSEMBLE!
  • 2 0
 That's evil...
  • 7 3
 Nobl
  • 2 0
 Hasn't someone done these before?? Another bike company building wheels, same hubs spokes and rim tech, hmmm
  • 4 0
 Revel Wheels. Also made via the method CSS Composites of Utah pioneered. In fact... I think these are actually the same rims with different branding. The rims weight the same. Have the same internal width. Have the same profile. I think this is just an attempt at getting Revel Wheels more hype. If I know anything about the folks at Revel Bikes, they've got some A-Game marketing skills.
  • 2 0
 @PHeller: Different rim design, same manufacturing technology.
  • 1 0
 @PHeller: Pretty sure the owners of Revel are also part owners/partners with CSS composites. Private label for Evil = more revenue for CSS.
  • 1 0
 Question would be: why should I buy the Revel Wheels over the Evil ones?

My guess is that they really aren't that concerned about trying to sell aftermarket rims or wheels, and instead are more interested in trying to package those wheels with complete bikes. Thing is, the wheels don't really make the bikes from Revel or Evil any cheaper, they just make them more Premium (because Made In USA). However, that's a strategy that has worked for Santa Cruz and Specialized - how many would have bought their wheels separate of the bikes?

If you're looking to grow the value of the company, that's one way of doing it - produce your own high-dollar components in house or under the same brand.

The last year has shown the bike industry still has plenty of demand, even at the higher price points, than it does supply - so it doesn't appear that offering consumers another choice (and having it in stock) is a bad idea.
  • 2 0
 "FusionFiber" rim uses polymer, not epoxy resin"
I'm pretty sure epoxy resin contains polymers.
  • 3 0
 The article is a little loose on technical explanations. FusionFiber is a technology being deployed by CCS Composites that uses a completely different manufacturing approach than typical carbon fiber construction. The original article by @danielsapp on Revel's wheels gives a more detailed explanation. You can also Google CCS to learn more about their innovations.
  • 1 0
 @methodbikes: Their website is also a bit light on the details. I get it, patent pending etc, but I tend to be sceptical these days, especially in regard to environmental claims. If it is really what they claim I wish them all the best.
  • 3 0
 Light carbon rims and i9 hubs do not equate to nearly 2kg. Osmium spokes?
  • 2 0
 "The front is laced two-cross for extra compliance" That is wrong, 2 cross makes a wheel stiffer.
  • 3 0
 The lacing pattern is bizarre for sure. Going to 2x will very slightly increase the lateral stiffness and very slightly decrease the radial stiffness but will double the stress on the spokes during braking. Why increase lateral stiffness on a front wheel where that is not needed and put so much stress on the spokes of the primary braking wheel? If they were determined to be goofy, they should do 2x on the rear wheel and stick with 3x on the front. It just looks like these guys have no idea what they're doing.
  • 2 0
 Loophole to Evil is like Breakthru to ENVE
  • 2 0
 $1 per gram. Totally reasonable.
  • 15 0
 Totally. That's 100x cheaper than a gram of coke.
  • 2 0
 It's a good Offering
  • 7 0
 Nah he tweakin
  • 3 0
 @slumgullion: You can get a Ball for an hundo - get a new dealer!
  • 1 0
 The RDA for fusion fiber is 33 grams per day and these wheels clearly exceed that.
  • 4 2
 If e-13 wheels are total shit, why would you trust EVIL
  • 1 0
 Do evil and e13 have any business relationship at this point? I thought they went separate ways back in the chainguides and burly hardtail days.
  • 1 0
 Metal where it counts... for the valve stem? LMAO what else were they gonna make it out of
  • 1 0
 Does their loophole also allow them to rip off the late Jay Reatard’s song “My Shadow”?
  • 1 0
 I guess it is getting harder and harder to name stuff...Kenda's next tire line the sLeak. Hopes next hub line the Clunker.
  • 2 0
 Haters gonna hate. Personally can't wait. But will be a while because $$
  • 3 1
 Sounds Revved to me...
  • 1 0
 Here I thought epoxy was a polymer...
  • 1 0
 I guess a test is out of the question.
  • 1 1
 As long as my ass points to the ground I ll never buy another Evil product.
  • 1 0
 So they’re the exact same thing as Revel’s?
  • 1 0
 Does anyone make a 36 hole carbon dh rim? Rim only
  • 1 0
 good job Creig
  • 1 0
 ACS Z rims re-visited?
  • 1 1
 EVIL HAS NO ELECTRONIC MOTOR BIKES. ALL HAIL EVIL.
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