First Look: Lal Bikes' Supre Drivetrain Splits The Derailleur In Half Before It Happens On the Trail

Nov 12, 2021
by Matt Beer  




It would be fair to say that mountain bikers everywhere have had a bad experience with a derailleur at one time or another, which is what drove Cedric Eveleigh of Lal Bikes to create the Supre Drive, a drivetrain system that separates the two functions of the standard derailleur (shifting and tensioning the chain), while also placing the purpose-built derailleur out of harm's way. The Supre Drive's four key elements are durability, efficiency, chain damping, and a lower unsprung mass, all on a high pivot suspension platform.

The idea popped into the Canadian mechanical engineer's head one day while he was catching his breath on a ride in the spring of 2019, and he immediately set to work building a stationary prototype drivetrain. Cedric has patented the Supre Drive in Canada, and while the patent is pending internationally, he is already working with a major mountain bike company to create a frame that will use the system. The prototype in the launch video is limited in range, but the current version can accommodate a 10-51-tooth range cassette and only has two specific requirements; a 52 mm chainline and a T47 bottom bracket.

Supre Drive Details
• High Pivot Idler Suspension Design
• Uses standard hub, cranks, cassette, shifter, and chain
• 12-speed, 10-51T gear range
• Custom derailleur with large, single jockey wheel
• Generous ground clearance
• Frame offers derailleur protection
• Spring loaded chain tensioner connected to spring and damper in downtube
• Approximate constant chain tension across all gears
• More info: lalbikes.com
• Instagram: @lal_bikes


A derailleur’s first job is to push the chain across the cassette cogs to change the gear ratio. Secondly, the pulley cage tensions the chain when slack is created by shifting to smaller cogs, keeping it from jumping off of the front chainring and cassette as the bike bounces down the trail. Cedric has placed the cage-less derailleur inboard on the swingarm and moved the chain tensioner to the middle of the bike, above the chainring. Although it uses a conventional hub and drivetrain parts, the frame must be designed around the entire system.

The tensioner pivots around the bottom bracket axis and extends counter clockwise to provide more slack in the chain when the derailleur shifts to the larger cassette cogs. Conversely, when an upshift is made to a smaller cog, the tensioner is pulled by a cable towards the front of the bike by a cartridge in the downtube, controlled by a spring and damper. Most intriguing is the system keeps the chain tension nearly identical across all gears. Conventional drivetrains increase tension in the lower gears, causing an increase in drag.

Add in a shorter section of free chain and as Cedric claims, "Speed-sensitive tensioner damping that outperforms any derailleur clutch on the market", and you get an extremely quiet and damped drivetrain. The Supre Drive also uses the same number of jockey wheels as a conventional high pivot idler bike, but reduces the friction since those wheels have a larger number of teeth than the typical derailleur.


As for the unsprung mass debate, the system saves roughly 130-grams of unsprung mass, but adds 100-200 grams of total mass. Like Pinkbike's Seb Stott discussed in his recent article about why you shouldn't worry about weight much, there are potential benefits to increasing that sprung to unsprung ratio by adding more weight to the front triangle and less to the rear.

After meeting Cedric back in August on his venture through B.C. from Chelsea, Quebec, I was presented with the opportunity to parking lot-test the second Supre Drive prototype. In a blindfolded test, I would not be able to tell the difference in the shifting system versus a traditional layout. If anything, the Supre Drive should shift even better on the trail, because the derailleur is mounted at two points and therefore does not rotate around on the B-knuckle pivot.

The fact that there is no B-tension adjustment needed and no special tools are required to assemble the system helps simplify setup. The positioning of the derailleur also gives more chain wrap around the cassette because the jockey wheel is clocked much higher. Almost hidden in plain sight, the derailleur also has abundant ground clearance and is further protected by being nestled between the chain and seatstay. Adding to the benefits of the system, the chain is kept further away from the elements and won't contact the ground under oscillations.

Production for the drivetrain components will be headed up in Canada by Lal Bikes and incorporated by Cedric. The brand name comes from Pierre Lallement who was credited by some as the inventor of the bicycle. Where does the Supre Drive get its name? Cedric explains, "Supre means above in the Esperanto language. This refers to the Supre Drive being above other drivetrains, both physically and performance-wise." He genuinely wants to make the mountain biking experience better and more reliable.

As you can imagine, the creation of this idea didn't happen overnight, but Cedric is extremely savvy and highly educated. The mechanical engineer by trade has a masters in Engineering Physics and taught himself how to TIG weld by watching YouTube videos and built on his machining practices learned in school. This is not the first time he's put his passion to improve bikes to the test. Back in 2012, he participated in Pinkbike's Reality Redesigned innovation contest and submitted a Pinion gearbox-equipped downhill bike design.

There have been a lot of wild and wacky drivetrain iterations throughout the years; Honda's RN01 "derailleur in a box" with a continuous drive chain, Zerode's high pivot design centered on an internally geared hub, Cavalerie's belt-driven gearbox DH bike, Lahr's CVT project, Allan Millyard's single-sided swingarm DH bike that enclosed the chain in an oil bath. The industry has never seen anything like the Supre Drive before, tackling multiple problems at once, like exposed derailleurs, chain kickback, but still using readily available drivetrain and hub components. All eyes will be on Lal Bikes to see what brand has licensed the Supre Drive, how it will be applied, and who else might in the future.





I also had the chance to catch up with Cedric and throw a few questions his way once he was finished dumbfounding industry folk in the Sea to Sky area.

How and when did you get into mountain biking?


I’m fortunate to have grown up with XC mountain bike trails out the back door, so I’ve been mountain biking since I was about 7 years old.

What was your first bike?


My first proper bike was a Norco Bushpilot hardtail.

What did you study in university?


My undergrad was mechanical engineering, and my master’s was engineering physics (both in Canada). A highlight of my undergrad was a couple of internships in Berkeley, California. My master’s was especially fun; my research project was on corrosion-resistant coatings for use in molten salt nuclear reactors, and I got to do a research internship in Shanghai.

When did you realize the flaws in the mountain bike drivetrains?


I’ve been aware that derailleurs suck for a long time. I remember upvoting all the pro-gearbox comments on Pinkbike around 2010, so it goes back at least as far as that.

What does the sales model of the Supre Drive look like and how do you see manufacturers incorporating this into their product line?


Lal Bikes will manufacture the derailleur, chain tensioner, and idler pulley in Canada (probably coastal BC, and maybe also in Europe later on). The sales model is the same as other drivetrain companies: sell to bike companies that spec the Supre Drive, and also sell directly to mountain bikers, etc. I'm currently collaborating with a major mountain bike company for them to develop a bike with the Supre Drive, and I plan to collaborate with many more.

What sparked you to tackle such a project?


After my master’s, I decided to switch my focus back to mountain bike engineering, which is what got me to sign up for mechanical engineering in the first place. The most glaring issue with mountain bikes is derailleurs, so I focused on that. While brainstorming possible solutions, I got some motivation from seeing the outside-the-box thinking of Ceramicspeed Driven. The eureka moment for the Supre Drive happened while I was out on a ride, and the idea was promising enough for me to switch from brainstorming to building prototypes.

How did you learn the manufacturing skills to build your own working prototype and what was that process like?


I’ve had to learn a variety of fabrication skills for this project, both for frames and the drivetrain. Most of this was learned on the fly during the project but some of it was learned beforehand in student machine shops at university. Some skills like 3D printing are quite accessible, but others like CNC machining and TIG welding have a much more difficult learning curve. I’ve learned a lot, but I still have a lot to learn, especially for switching from prototyping to manufacturing. I’m looking forward to having others join the team who are knowledgeable about manufacturing.

To answer your question about what the learning process was like, it has been friggin' great. With 3D printing, the accessibility of information online, local makerspaces, and other things, there’s never been a better time to invent.

What are some of the downsides or constraints of the system?


The Supre Drive requires the idler pulley to be farther forward than on most other high pivot bikes. This is because the front section of the chain needs to be forward enough to allow for the range of motion of the tensioner arm. The forward position of the idler pulley constrains frame design. It’s still possible to design frames that perform as well as the best frames out there, but some previous suspension systems might not work well with the Supre Drive.

I was lucky enough to pedal the proto around the parking lot. Can you explain how the derailleur is able to shift across the cassette if the tension is at the front of the drivetrain?


For shifting gears, the basic function of derailleurs is to guide the chain from side to side from one sprocket to another. There’s no need for the derailleur to also tension the chain. The upper pulley (guide pulley) of conventional derailleurs guides the chain from side to side just like the single pulley on the Supre derailleur. If the lower pulley (tension pulley) of conventional derailleurs doesn’t play a role in shifting, why not move the tensioner arm to somewhere safe?

Why not go with a gearbox, since this is not a traditional drivetrain anyways?


I’m not aware of a way to make gearboxes as efficient and lightweight as derailleur drivetrains. However, the Supre Drive is efficient and lightweight like a derailleur drivetrain—well, it is a derailleur drivetrain—just a tough one.

What were some of the reactions when you presented the Supre Drive to industry directors?


The reactions have been very positive but also amusingly vulgar. These two are verbatim:
“This is f****** fascinating and terrifyingly ambitious.”
“I’m not easily impressed, and this is f****** impressive.”

When do you think we will see the first production version of the Supre Drive?


For a first production version, I'm aiming for 2023. I have a lot of testing to do to make sure that I put out top quality parts. Also, frames need to be developed to go with the Supre Drive. It'll be some time before the Supre Drive becomes commercially available, but I'm working hard to make things happen fast.

What does the future hold for Cedric Eveleigh?


Plan A is to build a big manufacturing operation in Canada, and to make the Supre Drive as affordable, durable, and high performing as possible. I’m stoked about the task of getting a team of people together to build the Lal Bikes company, and I’m also looking forward to collaborating with more frame companies. And of course, the future includes a lot of mountain biking!





Photo and video credit: Chris Snow unless otherwise noted.




501 Comments

  • 582 16
 This is the innovation we need in MTB. Shimano or SRAM: HIRE THIS MAN!
  • 379 0
 He's choosing neither Sram nor Shimano: "Plan A is to build a big manufacturing operation". Good for him.
  • 73 0
 I think I can hear the cries of distress from the rear-mech repeat-sales department from here
  • 72 0
 No ! He should start his own business/company. Get investors in. Sram and Shimano makes profit of wear and tear and broken parts. this prevents(lessens) most of the broken aspect
  • 22 0
 CRUSHED IT!!!!!!!
  • 26 1
 This is amazing. Seriously what big S's should be doing but this kid is without any money, bravo!
  • 96 1
 Shimano or SRAM: FEAR THIS MAN!

Fixed that for you.
  • 97 2
 100%, f*ck wireless shifting, can we please have derailleurs that don't bend when you so much as look at them funny
  • 2 21
flag aljoburr (Nov 12, 2021 at 9:13) (Below Threshold)
 @gtill9000: Not completely new idea, but maybe fitted on a high pivot will make a difference?
But will work better with chain covers!
  • 10 4
 It's going to be tough to compete with the new crop of shorter, more tucked-in direct mount derailleurs that, once production and shortages catch up... will be "the next big thing" from the big S's.

Although, I do think this is awesome and I truly wish him tons of success and/or a potential buy-out for big money just to put this on a shelf.
  • 26 0
 @islandforlife: Shorter and more tucked in are relative, though...this takes both to a completely new level
  • 26 0
 It almost seems like Shimano and SRAM are more about small, safe incremental changes that satisfy shareholders/equity holders rather than innovating in meaningful ways.

If they make a derailleur that doesn't brake and need replacing often, how does that help them sell more expensive derailleurs?
  • 32 0
 This is impressive. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw something mtb related that had so much potential. I don't see it taking off in xc, but in dh and enduro it could be huge. If I was ~10 years younger and not comfortably settled down: I'd be trying to work with/get hired by this guy!
  • 8 0
 Just patent this shit and take the money, well deserved!
  • 23 2
 they'd just take ownership of the patents and then put it in a vault for decades so they can continue to extract every drop of profit from the derailleur hustle
  • 3 8
flag Compositepro (Nov 12, 2021 at 10:40) (Below Threshold)
 @gtill9000: erm isnt that just a butchered sram mech…..oh i get it now you mean if you are a shimano or sram mech fear for your existence
  • 3 0
 @VtVolk: thats what he said
  • 16 0
 @Svinyard: Sram tried to do something game-changing and innovative with my beloved Hammerschmidt, but it didn't take off.

You could argue that the move to 1X was pretty innovative. Imagine being at a board meeting and saying, "Our next product allows us to sell half as many derailleurs as before."
  • 12 0
 @hamncheez: half as many for twice the price increases profit. Add the x-dome cassette and we have a quarterly statement win!
  • 4 1
 Small advantage which I don't think has been mentioned is a reduction in unsprung weight around the rear axle........ eg The rear der cage + extra chain volume needed for it is removed from the unsprung mass........ That weight is then placed right in the centre of the bike where its less of an issue and won't affect the suspension. So many wins with this design.
  • 8 0
 @Karve: yup, they covered that
  • 5 0
 @islandforlife: curious, which shorter more tucked in derailleurs are you referring to? I can't think of any that come on modern Trial/Enduro full suspension mountain bikes? Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @Superboost: medium is the new short cage it seems.
  • 1 0
 @Superboost: Not available yet... but have heard they're on the way... when probably has a lot to do with the whole industry being overwhelmed at the moment, so who knows when they're actually drop.

Think Pinkbike had a patent article about them awhile back as well... ok, found it. Ya, these - www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-granted-patent-for-drivetrain-with-a-direct-mount-derailleur.html
  • 11 4
 Innovation for sure. Definitely something for a DH / Enduro bike to consider, even with how low profile derailleurs in the modern era have become.

That said, the talk of big Idler pulleys for better efficiency is a misleading claim.
I don't want to detract from the ingenuity of this approach, however I do have a problem with stretched marketing...

Larger idler pulleys reduce wasted energy by decreasing overall chain wrap angle.

A design like Supre inherently has much more total wrap than a traditional derailleur system.
I certainly may be missing something here, but it looks like Supre will induce ~230° more wrap while in little cog and ~300° more total chain wrap in big cog.
These are an order of magnitude greater than the wrap reduction achieved moving a normal derail to larger idlers (tens vs hundreds of degrees.

This is why it could be cool for DH / Enduro bikes - where efficiency matters less.
(Gearbox is ideal for DH tbh... un-sprung mass on rear wheel minimized & shift capable while not pedaling to name some big points)

All in all really cool to see the passion of folks in the community and the results that come from some interesting ideas and a lot of hard work.
  • 4 0
 Love everyone saying they should fear this man. They will wave a big cheque and just buy him instead if it takes off
  • 1 0
 **typo in first response outlining wrap angle diff. ~230° more in little cog and 100° more in big cog (not 300°)
  • 2 0
 @henrybsick: This thing has a high pivot idler, and effectively a lower chain guide. Not an apples to apples comparison.
  • 25 1
 @henrybsick: The amount of chain wrap around a sprocket doesn't affect the amount of drag. A major factor in determining the amount of drag is the pivoting angle of each chain link as it engages and disengages with sprockets. The pulleys in the Supre Drive are big and that decreases the the pivoting angles of the chain links which in turn improves efficiency. For example, check out the "oversized pulley wheel system" for road bikes (this is for improving efficiency).
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: The addition of a high pivot idler does not change the total wrap angle of a traditional derailleur system, for what it's worth.
  • 6 5
 @cedric-eveleigh: You are correct in pointing out the angle per link difference, however total chain path wrap angle is an indicator of how many times the links will need to bend to achieve the path.
Point being, the huge difference in total wrap angle is more significant than small angle per link differences when only considering diameters of pulleys.
In general the straighter the chain path the more efficient the system. Larger pulleys nudge a fixed system towards more efficiency vs smaller pulleys, but bigger levers are at play when the chain is simply require to bend more (again, hundreds vs tens of degrees).
  • 18 2
 @henrybsick: The angle that each chain link pivots when engaging or disengaging with a sprocket is unaffected by the amount of chain wrap around that sprocket. Like I said earlier, what matters is the amount of pivoting of each chain link, not the amount of chain wrap. This is a well-known fact in bicycle drivetrain engineering.
  • 2 0
 @islandforlife: thanks for the link! I had forgotten about that article. Now I remember laughing how SRAM was getting as many brands on the universal hanger as possible all while designing a derailleur for it. I thought it was a pretty clever move.
  • 58 1
 @cedric-eveleigh: OK, went back and did some quick maths. You are absolutely correct and I am a bit humbled.

I think my intuition steered my to assume that this was similar to the case of additional inflection point (which would be a more significant driver) however Supre does not add an inflection point in the chain path. (The high pivot is another story but not relevant to apples-apples comparison).

Did not wake up this morning expecting to brain fart on a system that I have analysed, designed, and implemented many times... however here we are.
Thanks for your comments!
  • 1 0
 The future is looking nice.
  • 33 1
 @henrybsick: Refreshing to see someone actually admitting they were wrong, and gracefully too. This is how debates should go. It's very rare though, from mountain biking site comments sections to international politics. Thanks.
  • 1 0
 @gtill9000: amen. Really disappointed with both sram and Shimano. Had the best of both. Like the hyperglide tech but I've gone through 6 Shimano xt/slx 12 speed deraileurs in just two seasons. Completely cheap pivot construction and can't wait for something hardier.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: this is something I haven’t thought about much so I’m actually asking to learn not to challenge your statement: wouldn’t the rotation of each link increase with wrap angle around a ring of given size? For example, if the chain wraps 180 degrees around a 32 tooth chainring vs 100 degrees, wouldn’t the movement of each link be less in the case with 100 degrees of wrap?
  • 1 0
 @gtill9000: I hit the wrong button. didn't mean to down vote. My bad. This idea is amazing!
  • 6 0
 @bikeracer28: for each link, it rotates twice for every pulley it travels through.
It bends as it enters, and then again as it exits the pulley teeth. Through the rotational travel of the pulley, a fully engaged link does not rotate with respect to its adjacent links. So, the wrap angle of the pulley ends up affecting only the time between link motions (on & off) and not affect a total amount of link motion.
  • 1 1
 @notthatfast: underrated as f***
  • 2 0
 @aljoburr: prior art!
  • 1 1
 @henrybsick:

What you said.

I don’t want to be a negative Nancy but how much longer can we flog this dead horse derailleur system for? Get a gearbox.
  • 2 0
 @lordchewington: Just put it in a box then!
Gear box designs are still flawed as far as efficiency goes!
Derailleurs work even better when in clean sealed environment
  • 5 0
 Well, you could have :
-Standard derailleur for XC/trail
-Supre drive for EN/DH as for now it only works with a high pivot
-Gearbox for ebikes where efficiency is not much of a problem, but torque can be one
  • 1 0
 @henrybsick: Thank you! It makes sense now, wish I could have figured that out myself
  • 5 6
 Shimano yes... SRAM no.... Shimano will ensure that durable materials get used to their best of their ability. SRAM will go out of their way to be barely adequate durability and you can see that any day comparing their derailleurs. Shimano when they use plastics, are generally using glassfiber impregnated plastics... and ensure the pieces are coming out of the molds perfectly aligned before they assemble the derailleurs. SRAM uses the cheapest plastics possible and if stuff is out of alignment, they assemble thousands of derailleurs anyway rather than reject the pieces and start over, and then they ship those derailleurs off to manufacturers to put on bikes.
  • 7 0
 26 year old engineers ain’t dead
  • 14 0
 @RobertGrainier: Sorry, there's a new standard. I just turned 27.
  • 2 0
 Funny that I did very similar design 15 years ago & no one showed any interest?
www.pinkbike.com/video/218538
Maybe it is enduro mentality?
  • 3 0
 @aljoburr: you did everything completely wrong thats why

it should say PROTOTYPE IN BIG LETTERS , they would have been chomping to get it on the front page
  • 1 0
 @zoobab2: YES, FUNNY thing is that this is just part of it!
  • 1 0
 I wonder if it would be technically feasible to make a 5-6 speed Hammerschmidt with at least a 250% range. Bolt on gearbox for DH bikes.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: its feasable do not ask me how i know this because im not allowed to tell anyone
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: How is it feasible
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Hammerschmidt was just an overdrive 2 speed gearbox similar to a drill gearbox
More likely get results from using a geared hub mounted in frame
  • 1 0
 @aljoburr: The point of it would be a bolt on solution that doesn't look like an erector set science project
  • 2 0
 @islandforlife:

I too wish him and his company all the success in the world, for both being truly innovative and for making it happen. And I'd love to see the Supre drivetrain succeed in the marketplace.

But I also hope Lal Bikes doesn't sell out to Shimano or SRAM, only because history has shown that major players will buy out the smaller innovative companies merely to squash any competition to maintain market share, and then abandon the innovative intellectual property they just bought—eg, Procycle bought out Balfa then mothballed their idler pulley + HSP as well as parallel-linkage VPP suspension designs, and Bauer bought out Mission then mothballed their more anatomically fitting "Purefit" hockey skates.
  • 2 0
 @slowrider888:

Specialized exclusive licensed the original US patented Inertia Valve shock design from its inventor Don Richardson (yes the same guy who invented the full floater motorcycle linkage and successfully won a $19 million dollar judgement against Suzuki Motorcycles for stealing his invention) for bicycle shocks (rear shocks only mind you), then didn't actually produce any to the patent design. Instead they and a guy a Fox Suspension basically reversed the patent design to use the inertia valve tech in a different and inferior way, filed their own patent applications and sued anymore else in the bike world who tried to license Don's original design (as they did with Stratos suspension) whilst still not actually paying the promised royalties Don had expected to be getting, because they never actually produced any shocks to his design. Specialized ended up calling their version the Brain shocks and Fox called there's Terralogic for suspension forks. Don holds a number of US patents including one for an vibration damping mechanism for handlebar grips, and a couple for shocks and some for variable engine timing.

patents.justia.com/inventor/donald-g-richardson
  • 2 0
 @Svinyard: I'd be interested to see what Shimano and SRAM make selling new derailleurs for new bikes as opposed to replacing broken derailleurs. You might be different to me, but I have broken or worn out maybe two or three in thirty years of riding.

But I have bought loads of new bikes and upgraded my transmission to have one more gear many times.
  • 238 4
 Love seeing drivetrain innovation rather than useless electronics to go on my bike. *cough* flight *cough* attendant
  • 42 31
 Modern mountain bikes are designed to break, similar to iphones. That's probably why there is no innovation towards durability, and the only limits being pushed are how expensive and luxury can something as simple as a lockout switch become.
  • 44 124
flag conoat (Nov 12, 2021 at 8:46) (Below Threshold)
 I have a FA equipped bike on it's way.....I have already decided I will call it Stewardess, and "sugar tits" as a cute nickname.
  • 93 28
 @conoat: nothing funnier than incorporating some sexual harassment into your mountain bike’s name!
  • 40 81
flag conoat (Nov 12, 2021 at 8:55) (Below Threshold)
 @TannerValhouli: do mountain bikes have rights now? can I not sexually harrass an inanimate object? :-)
  • 38 46
flag cougar797 (Nov 12, 2021 at 8:57) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: Peeps got no sense of humor anymore
  • 16 24
flag Chuckolicious (Nov 12, 2021 at 9:01) (Below Threshold)
 @TannerValhouli: I suggest you avoid the likes of Bill Burr and Dave Chappelle. Definitely stay away from Howard Stern.
  • 98 25
 Teachable moment: He didn't make the joke to the bike -- you never would have heard it were that the case, unless you're in the man's shed. He made the joke to people reading a story about drivetrains, some of whom may not like being reminded that flight attendants were the object of decades of belittlement and objectification, or reminded that some people today joke about sexual harassment for status among dickwads in the forums or a laugh. You realize the bike in the story of the joke is not actually what the joke is about, right?
  • 29 89
flag conoat (Nov 12, 2021 at 9:19) (Below Threshold)
 @Snfoilhat: bet you are fun at parties....if you some how finagle an invite to one
  • 43 11
 @conoat: ooh wow, personal attacks. Who could have seen that coming?
  • 8 29
flag nvranka (Nov 12, 2021 at 9:31) (Below Threshold)
 @TannerValhouli: :eyeroll:
  • 32 22
 @conoat: it shows you are a pathetic misogynist and how you need to prove that at any opportunity you have
  • 5 4
 @conoat: cut out the steward and just call it A$$hole
  • 1 0
 @luckynugget: dangit, accidentally downvoted, meant to give props. you are right
  • 8 4
 @conoat: logical fallacies are the default when you know your position is in the trash.
  • 7 31
flag conoat (Nov 12, 2021 at 11:14) (Below Threshold)
 @Spencermon: correct. @Snfoilhat really knows how to miss satire, eh? you too it seems....
  • 21 6
 @conoat: satire is one thing. what you've got going on is something else. We've had this conversation before. I don't want to talk to a brick wall again. Have a nice day.
  • 20 5
 'I was just kidding,' the last refuge of the muppet baby
  • 40 2
 @Snfoilhat: schrodinger’s douchebag
One who makes douchebag statements, particularly sexist, racist or otherwise bigoted ones, then decides whether they were “just joking” or dead serious based on whether other people in the group approve or not.
  • 3 0
 @luckynugget: I don’t agree. I ride a lot as do many of my friends/neighbors and we’re rarely breaking stuff. Wearing out, sure but that’s usually just the consumibles like tires, suspension seals, etc. and the occasional cassette or chainring. If frames or wheels were breaking all the time under normal use (I.e. not 20 ft drops) you’d see a lot of lawsuits.
  • 2 0
 @luckynugget: bollocks. Pinion gearboxes are bombproof and last for ages. I’ve ridden one for the last 4 years .
  • 9 12
 @Snfoilhat: But the fact of the matter, which you clearly pointed out is it's a Joke. Plain and simple, just a f'ing joke. I feel sorry for the amount of people who can't understand what a joke is, you're all to caught up in your virtue signaling echo chambers to actually laugh at something that sounds uncomfortable.

Please help protect us all from such horrible words spoken by some random person on the internet....that was joke.
  • 6 0
 @gnarlysipes: I'm the same. 15 years ago I'd ride and break a wheel every week, constantly drop the chain, have brake problems, and puncture tires.

My new bike from a few years ago has maybe dropped a chain once in over a year of riding (maybe), I've never had a tire problem, brakes are amazing, and I rode my wheels over a 1000 miles with no damage.

My experience is that durability is amazing compared to what it used to be.
  • 3 6
 @gnarlysipes: 20ft drops is average riding, and if 15 year old freeride bikes could handle it than modern enduro bikes should too. But I see what my buddies at the shop deal with, and the people riding them. especially right now when mass production is the highest priority. Especially the most expensive top of the line E-bikes, they are designed to sit in a garage of a vacation home and be used once a year.
  • 10 0
 @luckynugget: I‘ve been mountain biking for 30 years and never had so few parts breaking as in the last five years. Then again, maybe I‘m just getting to slow…

But I’m seriously impressed how reliable stuff has become, I don‘t notice any built-in obsolescence at all in bike components.
  • 2 0
 @luckynugget: it sounds like you're talking about downhill/freeriding exclusively. You must have some gnarly stuff nearby. I've ridden most of the trails nearby and the biggest drop I've seen is 12 foot in only one location and that location is now closed. Everything else is under 4 feet.

Hope the wheel builders were trying to strengthen their wheelsets during the world cup snowshoe races. Heard some wheels were barely surviving a single run.
  • 2 0
 @luckynugget: could also be a statistical issue. The actual rate of failures could be far less frequent there's just a ton more bikes with a lot more people doing rad stuff on them. Your comment also seems to be specific to frame failures, as components are no doubt way stronger. Frame failure rates would vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer. There's certainly instances where certain generations of modern bikes have had widespread failures but again it would be hard to paint that as an industry wide issue.
  • 4 0
 @MikeGruhler: how does a joke feel to someone who is the "Butt" of the joke? I have several family members that are stewardesses. If I told them this joke, they'd (rightfully) call me an a*shole. Why is it suddenly ok to call my aunt "sugar tits" just because it's a joke. It's not virtue signaling. It's an attempt to eliminate the crude "humor" that exists within this sport that my aunt also enjoys. You think she would feel comfortable with this joke? I'm not going to "laugh at something that sounds uncomfortable." I'm not going to just sit silently because I don't want people to get the idea that it's ok to make sexist jokes at others' expense.
  • 2 0
 @luckynugget: and maybe thats the problem .....planned obsolescence it brings you back to that built to last, you know your grans toaster that's still going since she got married .....whereas your plstic thing dies every year

think of the greenwashing potential where your object of desire outlasts 10 other things

then

think , people want new things every year damn the environmet

i wonder which will win in the end
  • 125 1
 I've seen this bike in person and its incredible, riding with Cedric the other day. His bike is so silent and smooth! Seriously the most impressive thing I have seen in a long time! Well done Cedric!
  • 64 0
 Thanks Ben!! I'm looking forward to our next ride!
  • 26 1
 @cedric-eveleigh: excuse my questionable name, but as a bike designer im super impressed with this. Its beautiful! Could i do some designs for you so you could get some really nice integration? (I mainly focus on integration and overall cleanness)
  • 11 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Sir,
You’ve built/designed something outrageous, and deserve tones of praise!
Looks to be a blast to ride, for some reason I get a strong Balfa vibe from the bikes silhouette.

If you’re ever in BC, lets rip some trails, I’ll buy the beer!
  • 12 0
 @Shitass: Please message me directly about this.
  • 5 0
 @cedric-eveleigh Need a place to manufacture etc, close to sick trails in Canada? www.nelsonstar.com/news/former-pacific-insight-building-listed-for-sale
  • 7 0
 @ridestuff: The current plan is to set up a manufacturing operation in coastal BC because I want to be able to test bikes year-round. Unfortunately, there isn't year-round mtbing in Nelson even though I'm sure it's an awesome place to live.
  • 5 2
 @cedric-eveleigh: This looks very nice, excellent work.
If I can piggy back on the "as a bike designer" and "as an engineer" clichés... It does look like quite a job to design that crucial tyre-crank-front-sprocket-suspension-pivots-BB-shell area with the new additions... I don't suppose it can just bolt to the ISCG mounts?
I'd also suggest looking at Taiwan manufacturing in tandem with whatever you do locally. If you want to do significant volume and hit more than just the very top end, getting OEM parts from Canada to Taiwan/China to assemble on to bikes is going to be a logistical nightmare, having bikes sitting around waiting for parts to come in as an absolute disaster.
Don't get me wrong, having the means to prototype extensively and do small batch production in house has a lot of benefits, but Taiwan is super well geared up for this stuff.

Good Luck
  • 2 0
 @onawalk: That, and B.rooklyn M.achine W.orks! tup amazing work, Cedric!!
  • 10 0
 @Shitass: Don't you dare apologize for this perfect name.
  • 2 0
 @GM303: haha cheers man. I made it with my childish mate, we were pissing ourselves laughing
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: When the snow flies the fat bikes hit the trails. That design will keep the derailleur from dragging through fluff and crust.
  • 2 0
 @Shitass: descriptive and direct. I like it.
  • 2 0
 Soooo cool to see a fellow OMBA rider! I recognized some of Fortune features in the promo video. Looking forward to looking for your bike next season!
  • 105 1
 Nows that’s really neat! Love it when people think outside the box, not too far outside the box, but just enough….
  • 18 8
 from this Wheelbased article back in May:

wheelbased.com/2021/05/07/hydraulic-line-connection-with-integrated-hydraulic-brake-by-magura


"People don’t like change, and the bike industry is one of the most hypocritical industries out there. We want new technology, though not that new – just a little bit new. But, we want it to be a game-changer, but not that game-changing because that’s scary and confusing. NeW StAnDaRdS, wTf GuYs!!!"
  • 23 1
 @conoat: MTBikers love innovation and don't mind change of standards that much is the innovation is actually bringing something to the table. Boost for exemple made us change hubs, wheels, and so forth for absolutely no added value. Integrated hose lines or electric bs has absolutely no real value either. Give us a dropper that drops without pushing down on it and people will adopt it. Dropper with a battery that cost 600$ but does the same thing than a dropper that cost 70$ on AExpress and you can go Flop yourself. Product managers a just whiners that dont offer any real innovation, make everything incompatible and obsolete within 2/3 years and complain that we don't find it funny.
  • 5 2
 @Balgaroth: you want a dropper that drops itself?
  • 2 1
 @nvranka: foreal just seems sketch
  • 15 1
 @nvranka: so like the old reverb
  • 2 0
 @funkzander: I have a old reverb lmaoo so im speaking from experience when I can say its sketch.
  • 1 4
 @Balgaroth: found the techno-grouch!
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: Why not? Of course he meant a dropper you both drop and raise with the push of a button instead of pushing with your arse. I think I'd buy that, though obviously would need to try first.
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: yeah, RAD dropper post from BMC.
  • 1 0
 @bananowy: hey if it’s just as reliable and similarly priced, sure…
  • 1 0
 @Notmeatall: that was a first step towards it but the concept is quite clunky, need to reload the secondary air chamber and so on.
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: I mean, If you can take some 50 downward strokes out of it, and don't need to recharge with air to keep using, It's a winner in my books. It weigh the same of a Fox 125mm, It goes down with the touch of a button, up with another button, and still works with your weight after the air chamber is empty? Sign me in.
  • 76 0
 Dude is 26 years old and this has been in development for 2 years! When I was 24 I think I was probably still nursing a perpetual hangover.
  • 26 0
 If his time studying engineering was anything like mine, he was probably doing both.
  • 43 0
 THIS is real innovation!! What an amazing young man. Strong chance this is the future of drivetrains as it solves the biggest current problem, durability. …Keeping an eye on this guy.
  • 41 1
 This feels like kind of a big deal
  • 33 0
 So for real, are you taking on investors? I think the vast majority of people on here would be interested in some kind of IPO or angel investor options. I think that this could become as ubiquitous as dropper posts are now on bikes in 5 years time.
Let us know where we can look for it.
  • 42 0
 I will definitely be taking on investors. I'm in the process of figuring out the details for how this will happen. I'll be growing the company quickly and this definitely takes money.
  • 5 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: keep us posted!
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: I got 5 on it
  • 32 4
 I don’t know why we haven’t changed the traditional derailleur placement. They say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, but we’ve fixed everything else except for the one thing that is the most likely to break and put you in more debt.
  • 13 0
 There has not yet been any improvement without sacrificing efficiency.
  • 17 4
 Because it's cheap, simple, and easily serviceable. I sure hope nobody's going into debt over a derailleur.
  • 17 0
 @rickybobby18: have you been on sram’s website recently?
  • 14 1
 I admire the ingenuity and fab skills of this solution but for wider market adoption, I feel it places fairly strict design constraints on frame manufacturers.
  • 8 0
 @BikesNRussets: If you buy an AXS derailleur that can put you into debt then it's not the derailleurs fault tbh
  • 3 0
 @undercoverfreak: this.

That being said, you could probably make some far prettier frames that utilized the same design.
  • 27 1
 Am I the only mtber that doesn't wreck derailleurs? I have not killed one since the nine speed days and that was from a big crash.
  • 1 0
 @jzPV: what I am saying it’s a pain is the ass to replace even a cheap NX or deore mech, but it does make them more of that sweet money.
  • 5 1
 @themouse77: I’m with you, my xo1 shifter and mech are on its 3rd season of steady riding and some solid crashing. I don’t actually remember the last mech or hanger that I broke, it’s been probably 10 years. I replace chains and cassettes as they wear, but this system doesn’t seem to address that. I do like the potential elimination of chain slap though, and removing the requirement of a friction clutch to maintain chain tension.
  • 7 0
 @themouse77: no, I havent either. I would still prefer this new design.
  • 1 0
 I was thinking this just now while cooking a delicious curry. Could the same components not be used just with the mech and cassette in the front triangle? We have good slick shifting, good efficiency, lots of options for weigh and cost. Only thing is, they all bolt on or near the rear axle. Doing the shifting at the front makes a lot of sense, and with carbon intricate shapes are easily achieved. One would think someone would have copied the RN01 by now. I would be all about such a bike.
  • 3 0
 @jaame: thats basically what a gearbox hopes to achieve, although maybe one of the problems of current gearbox design is that they want to emulate the 1x10/11/12 gear spread.

I think back to the Hammerschmidt. Imagine that same idea, but with modern carbon construction, and maybe a wider spread.

I've always wanted to do a SS hardtail build around a Hammerschmidt.
  • 4 0
 @themouse77: I made this claim two seasons ago after going a solid 5 years without having to replace the mech, and since then have had to replace 3 mechs on 2 different bikes which required monitoring multiple sites for months at a time to buy as soon as something was restocked


would recommend knocking on wood ASAP
  • 1 0
 @PHeller: yeah but my point is, can that be achieved with a cassette and dérailleur? I'm thinking by running the drivetrain on the left of the bike the entry and exit angles could be similar. One.would just need to fabricate some kind of cassette body that mounts to the frame instead of the hub, preferably on the same axis as the main pivot. That way there would be less of a risk to buy-in for the consumer. All parts would be already existing parts except the cassette body. One could choose SRAM or Shimano, whatever level the budget ran to. Spares would be easy to get. Overall weight and friction would be the same as the current system only on the left and facing backwards.
  • 1 0
 @themouse77: smacked my GX derailleur on a log yesterday in a narrow chute/turn. Was sure it was toast from the loud impact. But it actually didn't even bend the hanger.

I have broken them in the past though.
  • 1 0
 @PHeller: me too!!
  • 3 0
 @radrider: Did you not read the article or even watch the video? The LAL design is all about reducing failures, not about improving efficiencies. The LAL design is about improving the Mountain bike experience as a whole by reducing the frequency of broken and/or misaligned components. The design aims to increase bike to trail clearance, reduce damage, improve chain tension and reduce the impact on the rider's pocketbook all while improving the overall good time experience riders expect and deserve.
  • 1 0
 @themouse77: I did in 2.5 derailleurs last year at Campfortune where Cedric shot this video, sticks flipping up and jammed the chain, I managed to replace the lower cage from and "old" broken one so 2.5
But I had to go to four shops to get a new one. Derailleurs are getting better but not tougher.

Fantastic idea and commitment to getting it done, all the best Cedric looking forward to seeing real innovation.
  • 1 0
 @themouse77: I have only bent the cage on one in 25 years of (admittedly tame) riding, however I have bent about 8 derailleur hangers in that time. This idea deserves more investigation.
  • 1 0
 @themouse77: Knock on wood, mountain biking since 84 and never roached a rear derailleur. I've worn them out though.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: I vaguely seem to recall seeing a bike design fairly recently that had a traditional rear derailleur and cassette up front for some reason.
Damned if I can recall where now.
  • 1 0
 @imajez: Post up if you remember it!
  • 31 0
 More people like this in the industry. Forward-thinking and great design. Keep it up!
  • 21 0
 In this week's "People That Are Way Smarter Than Me"!
  • 16 0
 triathlon saddle kinda cool
  • 15 5
 I just came down here for a saddle comment, but it was less positive. He's also done some super interesting work, but still, that fugly saddle...
  • 37 0
 It puts more weight on my sitting bones and less weight on my plumbing. It works for me! And this is actually their mountain bike model.
  • 59 0
 I mean, this guy is taking Sram and Shimano head on: that takes some pretty big cahones. It's no wonder he needs an unusual seat. hehe.
  • 15 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: A happy gooch and infallible derailleur placement. What do you worry about now when you ride?
  • 2 3
 @traildad69: Just not the saddle I'd put on for a press release. Happy chode helps you rode??
  • 14 0
 Hey this looks like... Kinda sweet
  • 14 0
 This is awesome Cedric! Nice invention!
  • 14 1
 My Pinion is that this is a great idea and could derailleur the whole bike drivetrain industry!
  • 2 0
 His idea cassette the market on fire, that’s for sure!
  • 12 0
 @cedric-eveleigh Amazing design! One question - with that much chain wrap, what's the process for getting the wheel on and off the bike like?
  • 21 0
 Good question! On the chain tensioner, there's a position lock feature that locks the position of the tensioner arm in a way that makes it easy to get the wheel on and off. I didn't have this on the first prototype bike and that was a pain, but the second prototype bike has it and it's great.
  • 3 0
 Yes - I'd like to see a video of a wheel removal/install. What size axle is on that bike?
  • 11 0
 @BenLow2019: I'll make a video of that at some point for sure. It's a regular 12mm diameter axle.
  • 4 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Thanks again. You're doing it right.
  • 10 0
 Clever, clever, clever. What a star this guy is. If it looks right, it probably is right. He has done excatly the right thing: simplified mech, placed it out of harms way. We still have to put up with telescopic forks in spite of tremendous innovation like Structure, so I do hope the ultra-conservative industry dont do their usual thing and shove this under the carpet.
  • 2 0
 This drive train on a Structure, problem solved!
  • 12 0
 That's pretty dang slick.
  • 13 4
 Are people really blowing derailleurs up this often? I live in an extremely chunky area and love going fast and destroy a RD maybe once every 5 years. Maybe.
  • 7 1
 I guess I have always also been confused by this as well. I have maybe mangled on RD in my life and been riding for over 20 years....
  • 7 0
 my count is 3 for this season ...
  • 7 1
 I'd have to assume the answer is no. To me there is a reason why the traditional derailleur hasn't changed much. They are for the most part cheap, easy to service, and generally just work fine for the vast majority of riders.

I find it funny how in cases like this, where a product has largely just stayed the same for years, every jumps on the big companies like Shimano and SRAM about how they don't innovate, hate new ideas, etc. But then whenever these companies come out with a new standard of some sort, the same people complain that what they have already works fine and they don't need something new.

The idea that these big companies wouldn't want to sell us a new form or rear shifting in laughable. I am 100% sure they would love too, and have been trying to come up with something for years. But at the end of the day they have to sell it. And when you already have a cheap reliable option its hard to sell people on something else.
  • 2 0
 I am with you until recently. Just broke my first one a week ago. Slid off the side of a rock and it caught. Started biking down the trail and everything let completely loose. It happens. I am all for the change. Love seeing new ideas.
  • 8 0
 I don't break derailleurs that often. But I also pick lines that don't endanger them, or try to minimize potential hits anyhow. Pretty much all experienced riders do this. Not having the dangling derailleur would open up a lot of lines. Could be a substantial advantage on some dh and enduro courses.
  • 2 0
 I agree. To be fair though, I am very conscious of rear wheel when traveling through tight terrain and often unweight and do small repositions if I feel my rear wheel is off line and derailleur is getting close to something. Then again, you could argue that I adapt my riding style to save my derailleur... So is that a negative in itself? Hard to say. If doing this adds a ton of weight and reduces flexibility in suspension design. Not sure what I'd be willing to sacrifice to have a safer derailleur.
  • 1 7
flag nickmalysh (Nov 12, 2021 at 10:07) (Below Threshold)
 to be fair I do not want my derailleur to be protected by the frame, snapping frame is not easy fix;

Also originally derailleur hanger should address the issue, snapping itself and avoiding damage to the frame or derailleur itself

I snapped 1 this summer
  • 5 0
 @nickmalysh: What? How often do you snap the chainstay on the unprotected non drive side? Frames are a lot higher and stronger...
  • 2 0
 I wrench for a shop that does a lot of mountain bike hires, and we get through a LOT of 12 speed rear derailleurs from both Shimano and SRAM. Bent cages is the most common failure. 12 speed seems to be the common theme, I think that 50-52T cog was one gear too far.
  • 3 0
 @Wombat1967: I think 12 speed is fragile. That's why I've gone back to 11. I'm thinking ab9ut trying the 10 speed Deore next. It's just gears.
  • 1 0
 i broke two this year on my DH bike, and I only got to ride it 5 times this season. Due to shortages, I bought two more so I can have a spare on stand by. Rock gardens can be really rough on ders.
  • 1 0
 The fact that replaceable derailleur hangers exist should be a good indication that folks blow them up on occasion
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: this was my thought exactly. I currently ride around the constraints of having a derailleur. If it was out of the way it would only be a disc (which is already quite small and tucked out of the way) to worry about so you'd have a heap more options for lines.
  • 1 0
 @Wombat1967: this is why I’ve gone to using derailleurs with steel cages like SLX. To bend it back into useable condition is easy compared to aluminum which tends to break.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: i agree with this
  • 1 0
 @Wombat1967: Is it significantly more than you used to get through 11 speed before 12 speed took over?
  • 2 0
 @jaame: If you're thinking about 10 speeds, I'd highly recommend the Microshift AdventX
  • 3 0
 @robw515: my son's bike has 10 speed Zee. My all time fave shifting was XT 8000 11 speed. Both just really smooth and light. Right now I'm using an X1, garbaruk 11s setup. Not a cheap drivetrain, but every time I jump on the YG's bike I'm surprised at how smooth the Zee is. I see Shimano has released a new deore 10 speed for peanuts...
I have not heard much about the Micro Shift. How does it compare to Shimano?
  • 1 0
 @jaame: It works really well but it's not in stock anywhere in Europe at the moment.
  • 8 1
 “I’m not easily impressed, and this is f****** impressive.”

+1

That is an awesome piece of design and engineering. Maximum kudos for this!

It has so many positives and the only downside I can think of is that it doesn't address the asymmetric rear hub but that's hardly part of it's remit so I'll forgive it.

Fingers crossed you get a lot of uptake and become very successful.
  • 7 0
 Absolutely smashing it! And not just revolutionary in terms of the drivetrain & suspension. Look at that short seat tube length, standover, geometry. He’s thought hard about it all.

Normally I’d instinctively recoil at another set of standards, but this is so out of the box and addresses so many issues that I must doff my cap in respect and admiration, and wish him every success.

Bravo, sir!
  • 6 0
 Finally, been asking for this for soo long! Ever since the first time standing next to a rock garden at a race and watching these cages fly all over the place (pre-clutchmech) and inspired by the Roox (cat or dog) I was wondering how long it would take for them to do the tensioning closer to the (more steady) front triangle. Glad someone finally made it work. Good luck!
  • 6 0
 That's a great innovation. You've had a great idea, now work with some other engineers who can think outside the box of your original design to refine the idea to the point where it can work on more general frame designs and it will take off. If it will always require a very specific frame/suspension design in order to work, I feel that it will be considered niche and sputter along in perpetuity whilst never achieving mainstream success.
  • 7 0
 You should add a lever where a standard derailleur would hang and attach to a counter so the rider know how many mechs you've saved them - just like the water bottle fillers at the airport.
  • 8 0
 Finally a good solution. I'm well impressed. Thinking outside the gearbox.
  • 5 0
 Kudos Cedric - hope this is a huge success - would love it on my bike. So much more innovative, useful and genuinly worthwhile than anything SRAM or Shimano have put out recently.
  • 6 0
 Amazing release, answers all the important questions with no fluff, and does an incredible job at showcasing your work. Nice one bud.
  • 3 0
 That's what I'm going for. Thanks for your comment Simon! Smile
  • 4 0
 This is absolutely awesome. As a left handed person, my inclination has always been to lay my bike down on the drive side, but for obvious reasons, one doesn't. If I had this, I'd throw my bike down onto its drive side, with joy, every time I dismounted it. I hope this guy make millions. Good luck to him.
  • 1 0
 This is another advantage of my drivetrain for sure. I get a fair bit of enjoyment from laying my bike down on the drive side.
  • 4 0
 "Like Pinkbike's Seb Stott discussed in his recent article about why you shouldn't worry about weight much, there are potential benefits to increasing that sprung to unsprung ratio by adding more weight to the front triangle and less to the rear."

Ah, yeah, but did not the same article mention how the extra drivetrain drag of the extra pulleys is nearly more important than weight?
  • 6 0
 The reactions in this topic are proof that the mtb community has no problem with innovation at all, only with marketing scams pushing changes without added value, SRAM.
  • 7 0
 This is really cool. Kudos!
  • 3 0
 Very cool - it's about time for this kind of innovation. But one question: understand there's no B-screw, but how is the upper and lower limit adjusted? I don't see the screws. Are they hidden somehow or is this prototype built to the cassette range?
  • 12 0
 The high and low limit screws are there and totally accessible, but they're just not very visible in these photos.
  • 5 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Thanks. Great work, man!
  • 3 0
 The beauty of this is that it actually works and looks to be very promising ! The ceramic speed idea is a pipe dream for the mega wealthy where this can be had by most folks buying an already $5-8k plus mtb's...

Well done Canadian friend Smile
  • 4 0
 Cedric man, Thank you. This is exactly the sort of thinking that we all need to solve this horrendous drivetrain convention that none of the big manufactures are motivated to change.
  • 4 0
 Yes! This is innovation! A simple, yet hard-worked-on improvement! I hope this will at least somewhat disrupt the industry and cause some stir among the big players. Go Cedric!!!
  • 4 0
 But, but..... What am I going to do with my derailleur hanger alignment tools? That is possibly the most used tool in,my shop!

Looks neat, best of luck to you! I wanna see it in person.
  • 7 0
 I have great answer for you, but I can't reveal it yet! I have an additional invention that will pecisely satisfy your needs.
  • 6 0
 That's interesting. Like the idea, less broken deraillurs
  • 5 0
 Best of luck, love seeing people hack but really wishing the best when they go the extra mile to make it commercial!
  • 2 0
 Great idea. Back in the day I would cut the cages off my derailleurs on my trials/street/park bike for tighter chain tension and a small bit of range as an alternative to single speed. It didn't shift well, but that was never the point, it did what I needed to do in terms of limiting chain slap, and not beating up derailleur cages regularly.


Similar to this, has anyone been following Trinity Mountain Bikes? Their high pivot steel gearbox bike was featured in a PB article earlier this year. They've recently shown a prototype adapter that allows a standard bottom bracket in place of the frame mounted gearbox. Now they've shown a version that puts a derailleur and 6 speed cassette above the bottom bracket (chain driven on the non-drive side). Definitely worth checking out for those that find this kind of stuff interesting.
  • 4 0
 This is the most legitimately cool new innovation mountain biking has seen in a long time. New standards suck but this would actually be a worthwhile change.
  • 3 1
 I always admire any real innovation and this is definitely innovative. However, as a whole system (frame, idlers, derailleur, etc.), it's complicated. A lighter-weight gearbox still seems like the best answer, though I know that's always been 5 years away and still is.
  • 2 0
 Cedric! I rode Camp Fortune in Gatineau all season and I really regret not running into you and your amazing machine. its like a raw version of the enduro bike of the future. it would be cool if you got in touch with Devinci and have a version of your drive train integrated in the upcoming aluminum version of the Spartan High Pivot... or get a Canadian manufacturer onboard. And the saddle... It makes total sense! with super steep seat tube angle, there is not as much a need to ride the nose of the saddle on the climbs anymore. Nothing wrong with not crushing the piping down there! Some solid riding too in your video. Well done!
  • 2 0
 Now this is elegant engineering. The ability to independently adjust chain tension and have it constant across all rear cogs is a real feature, and this may make high pivot bikes in the med and long travel categories really attractive.

And the elimination of rock damage to rear derailleurs, while important, should not overshadow (lol) the near elimination of failures that result when a large stick gets caught up in the rear derailleur. That’s relatively common if you’re not riding in a desert.
  • 2 0
 This is just beautiful idea whose beauty is proved by simple engineering. What's there to add? Managing this at the age of 26, your sir please take my respect.
.
As I have mentioned in another PB articles, highpivot designs highlight ugliness of traditional drivetrain. Mainly because of the traditional position of traditional derailuer. You @cedric-eveleigh solved not one thing (damn deraileur) but even the visuality of the overal layout. IMO, this is how every HP design should look like. This is the chain routing to be achieved.
  • 3 0
 I have zero idea if this is the answer, leaning towards geared hubs, but this dude is definitely thinking out of the box. Well done, lad!
  • 2 0
 Geared hubs add somewhere around a kilo of unsprung weight to the rear wheel. Not good. Gear boxes are putting weight in better location.
  • 5 0
 Awesome, but a proprietary frame just for a derailleur?
  • 10 0
 When dropper posts first came out they were externally routed. Now every frame has been redesigned to incorporate the routing for a dropper post cable. When good ideas come along, the industry adapts and changes designs to accommodate them.
  • 1 1
 Yeah, it doesn't seem like the entire frame needs to be custom. Rear dropouts and maybe some of the rear triangle, but there are already tensioners that work with non-high-pivot suspensions. Maybe not with the level of damping in the tensioning system, but sometimes trying to kill two (or three) birds with one stones gets you zero birds. The mech split is so great, but limiting it to a specific (high-pivot) suspension design is not going to help it gain traction.

(*The three birds seem to be: splitting the mech, adding damping to the tensioner, new high-single-pivot suspension. Maybe just pick one at a time.)
  • 3 0
 @DrRiptide: a hole in the seat tube is hardly a major redesign but I hear ya.
  • 2 0
 This is great to see and one of the most interesting innovations I’ve seen in the bike industry in recent time. Hope you’re able to hire the right people to drive wider adoption in the industry.
  • 3 0
 I enjoy pointing out flaws in the designs of others, to the point of it being a character flaw of mine. I've got nothing, very impressed.
  • 2 0
 How does it limit suspension design? What designs other than hsp is it less suitable for or won't work with?
  • 1 0
 While i dont have a problem smashing derailleurs, I'm sure there are some folks out there who do. Seems to me like there is a huge opportunity to include mounting points for this drivetrain system with all the new high-pivots at a price point that doesn't make it a "premium" option.
  • 3 0
 @mattbeer Lahr built the carbon CVT bike; lahar was carbon (rohloff) gearbox. Different people, oddly similar names.

Also - this novel design is ridiculously cool.
  • 3 0
 Good catch! I've corrected that now. Thanks!
  • 1 0
 Looks very interesting. Kudos on the innovation! And on the reference to Esperanto - very funny.
No mention of chainstay width though. @cedric-eveleigh can you comment on that? My memory immediately goes to a really well-pedaling and stout-as-hell Lapierre Spicy that I had for a few months some time ago. The boxy chain stays splayed out so wide that my heels rubbed very often. I had to part with the bike.
  • 4 0
 Heel clearance is just fine on the second prototype bike. And I used off-the-shelf steel tubes (it'll be easier to design frames to have heel clearance for production bikes where carbon molds and hydroforming aluminum tubes are an option).
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: And steel is very, very awesome to look at! Where did you get that idler?
  • 2 0
 @rosemarywheel: I got the idler from the machine sitting right beside me here. I have a desktop 5-axis CNC machine (Pocket NC). Wink
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Hey, hey! we have one of those at the Tech College I went to (for machining...) here in Bellingham. Takes forever to make anything though... Smile

Beautiful!
  • 2 0
 @rosemarywheel: Yup, they're slow, but they get the job done for prototyping. Drastically different CNC machines will be used for production machining of course.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Please keep us updated! I am drooling over all the handmade goodness that keeps popping up on PB, ad it is very inspiring to see Salute
  • 1 0
 This is genius. I've toyed around with the idea of mounting a regular derailleur on the left and upside down above the cassette, so it would be out of harm's way, but that would also require switching the chain movement direction, which is way too complicated. I really hope you get to make this a standard.
  • 1 0
 I really, really, really want this to take off and be a huge thing and nearly kill derailleurs all together, but Sram and Shimano will not let that happen. They'll either buy the patent to this and it'll get swallowed up and disappear, or this will be similar to Zerode and other small scale bikes where maybe a few hundred are sold every year to the truly interested folk. Please prove me wrong, I want to stop worrying about the need for laser straight derailleur hangers and how finicky Shimano 12 speed is.
  • 2 0
 First of all, smoked by the Canadians again !?!. I'm a previous Knolly and current Druid owner, and already spend too much time trailside explaining my thing for BC bikes. Now this...
  • 1 0
 That looks rather good...seems to have a huge amount of chain waggle - shows how quickly the clutch rear mech has become normal as you don't tend to see as much chain waggle/flap/slap on a bike with a clutch rear mech.
I reckon that'll take a wee while to become very popular but will then make a serious contender against conventional designs.
  • 3 1
 There's the same chain waggle on bikes with a conventional derailleur.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Great work! You're probably already all over this, but one of the big advantages of current drivetrain components is that they can all just be bolted on externally. I'm concerned that the tensioner damping mechanism and cable hidden in the downtube will create unnecessary frame design constraints and expense that could be avoided by using a bolt on tensioner with a more conventional spring/clutch mechanism. I'm sure the internal damper is awesome, but surely a tensioner that utilises the same springs and clutch design as existing derailleurs would be cheaper and still adequate, and lead to more rapid uptake of your system
  • 1 0
 Genuinely curious how this limits suspension design options. I would love to see his idea applied to more than just high single pivot. I'm at work and didn't do anything but skim. Does it say anything about this type of limitation?
  • 3 0
 There's a lot of unexplored territory in terms of frame design for the Supre Drive.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: looking at the pictures, I'm guessing anything with a pivot near the rear axle wouldn't work with this current iteration..
  • 1 0
 @lumpy873: I think a pivot could be located near the rear axle. Also, a pivot could be located just in front of the lower derailleur mount.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: like you said, still a lot of unexplored territory in this system.. Curious if this could work with a Split Pivot or ABP design...
  • 2 0
 @lumpy873: It seems like it could. By the way, if anyone wants to explore frame design possibilities for the Supre Drive, please contact me so that I can provide info about idler pulley position and other things. The 12-speed version of the Supre Drive requires the idler pulley to be farther forward than the idler pulley on the prototype bike in this article.
  • 3 0
 Wow, great article pb, and exciting looking invention Cedric!!...biggest thing since the dropper post came out? That bike has a very 'apocalypse' vibe to it
  • 1 0
 Looking at the picture with the comparison between this system and the traditional derailleur... Why can't we just mount the derailleur upside down? (With the "lower" pulley high above the axle line)

Wouldn't that work for tensioning the chain while giving more ground clearance?
  • 6 0
 You would have to pedal backward for that to work if I'm correctly understanding you.
  • 4 0
 @haen: OK my brain was just disconnected now that you said it... Haha thanks for that.

I guess that could be solved by mounting the chainring on another axle with a cog to invert the rotation, but that would be adding more complexity and weight, so Cedric must have an edge over me still haha.
  • 1 0
 @haen: it would work of th whole system would be designed for the left side of the frame right? @luckymixes
  • 3 0
 @PauRexs: No, the chain alignment needs to be done on its way to the cassette, no matter the drive side the chain needs to feed in from the bottom to make the wheel spin the right way, that's why front derailleurs are mounted up top, the chain feeds in from the top at the front. Create a 10 to 12 speeds cassette as narrow as a front 3x and then it's possible to move the shifting to the front with the derailleur out of the way...
  • 2 0
 @cedric-eveleigh amazing to see you launch this! My bro & I were the ones you rode with in Cumberland, been waiting to see this go live! All the best with the company/biz side of it.
  • 2 0
 Hey Matt! Good to hear from you. Thanks for showing me around that day! Cumberland trails are sweet.
  • 1 0
 I'm just thinking how could companies not have thought of the same or a similar design (especially when they could think of a high pivot design)? Perhaps it's the need to overhaul suspension design that impedes companies from putting it into reality? Or there might be disadvantages that come with the new suspension designs.
  • 1 0
 Wow! Amazing job applying your technical training, skills, and mindset to re-think and re-invent how bikes are shifted. A friend had a similar rethinking of derailleurs and how to keep them from getting bashed. Best of luck ramping up manufacturing and partnering with bike brands. As someone who maintains the families derailleurs with kids who ride hard, I would love to see this reach widespread adoption.
  • 2 1
 This is fantastic innovation, a great take on drivetrain design, bravo!

I ride a Zerode, I adapted easily and love the Pinion/Gates belt combo for a bunch of reasons - but this design is a great halfway-house between conventional systems and the pinion (*other gearboxes are available) it looks like it solves real world trails issues and will give an improved platform to riders who want many of the benefits of GB's without riders having to adapt to the ride nuances or are panicked by weight/cost/drag or servicing availability. (Weight/cost/drag arguments are losing credibility as the industry has moved further towards burlier bikes and high pivot idlers and prices are quite ridiculous at the top end now!)

Everyone seems to want 1 defining standard to dominate the market killing off all other systems - but given the diverse nature of bikes and riding, why should this ever be the case?! All designs have compromises and none are perfect for ALL applications, innovative bikes are often judged unfairly with this expectation - with reviewers commentating on performance not only as intended by the manufacturer but also for every perceived 'other' application the tester can envisage. There's a reason I wouldn't thank you for swapping my Red AXS off the road bike and Pinion off the Taniwha.. but both systems are fantastic for their application.

The traditional derailleur isn't dead coz of this, nor should it be.. but hopefully we'll see less of them spec'd on the robust bikes PBers like to ride hard! I completely see room in the market for this - hopefully frame designers will too.
  • 1 0
 Cool stuff.. Hopefully, teamingwith a big company doesn't result in changes being made based on looks or design philosophy..

Why don't the the 2 big S companies do stuff like this? It requires a lot of companies to jump on and change frame designs for something to take off.. And in cased you haven't noticed, change isn't always accepted really well around here..
  • 1 0
 To be fair, SRAM did give us 1x drivetrains. But yeah, one individual engineer developing this system is an amazing accomplishment and I hope it succeeds in the market!
  • 2 0
 @ABhardtail: but, the didn't require a completely different frame design... You put Eagle on pretty much any bike..
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh, I may have missed it, but is there any way this system (perhaps in slightly adjusted form) could work on a system without idler? The general principle of separating the two pulleys does not look to me like it can't be done without the idler, but I surely do not know all the details.
  • 1 0
 Oh, and did I already mention that this is awesome? Because it is.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: Ha, thanks! The idler pulley is needed to allow for the range of motion of the tensioner arm.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: can the start position of the tensioner be rotated anti clockwise to give more room? Do you have pictures of the tensioner at max/minimum position. As in biggest /smallest gear, at full extension/compression? Hope that makes sense!
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh Ignore all that, just seen it on your website.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: but what if the tensioner was constructed or differently, and it could take up enough slack? Is there anything else which would require the high pivot or idler? Let's say for the sake of the argument you'd have a close ratio 7 speed cassette and only require 20t capacity. Just curious.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: Without the idler pulley, the maximum cassette range is tiny (smaller than Sram's dh cassette).
  • 1 0
 Seems like Cedric should have a talk with Dustin Adams, a fellow Canadian who has so far successfully navigated the challenges of creating North American manufacturing jobs in our niche industry. On a recent interview Dustin was just mentioning how he would love to work with anyone willing to try and produce drivetrains / brakes / suspension locally. And it sounded like he has operating space available next to the WAO factory.

I could see a future WAO frame built around this component ty.
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one that's more intrigued by the beach cruiser esque front triangle? Love the low standover, but I wonder what the rigidity is like. You'd think a front triangle like that would be more common on Enduro bikes if it was rigid enough.

When do we get a full review, Pinkbike?
  • 1 0
 i’m somewhat new to mountain biking but have already had my fair share of problems with derailleurs and this seems like a foolproof fix too it! i also like the how clean and simple it makes the bike look.

if you’re still reading this, thank you and i appreciate you. i ride hardtails and have found that they’re more fun for the kinds of trails i ride. could you put a high pivot design on a hardtail? i know it helps with rear suspension which a hardtail doesn’t have, so is there any reason it wouldn’t work just to get a better derailleur?
  • 1 0
 I think the Supre Drive could definitely work on hardtails.
  • 1 0
 VERY impressive. Not only the idea, but being able to actually make a working version. I've had some pretty good ideas in 25 yrs of MTB, but never brave or skilled enough to take it past the idea stage. Hope to be able to own a bike with this drivetrain someday.
  • 1 0
 Pretty cool idea. Truly innovative and outside of the box. Impressive DIY spirit and fabrication skills. That said I think this drivetrain would create new concerns. Sure you'll never snag the derailleur on a rock but you might end up with the hem of your shorts or a calf caught in an idler pulley. That might not be the end of the world but it'll get you dirty at best and could cost a chunk of skin at the worst. I don't mean to be a downer but that seems like something that should at least be considered. Best of luck with its development!
  • 1 0
 Reminds me of the honda concept . I guess they still have a patent on that design? I like it . I thinknshe next step would be to try and build something like the honda and have it all inboard. But I can't imagine it would be possible ?
  • 1 0
 Honda's bike has a regular derailleur and cassette up front, it's another take on the gearbox basically...
  • 4 0
 I constantly break derailluer’s so hit me up if ya need a Pacific Northwest tester
  • 1 0
 Dear Cedric, thanks for bringing out this incredible innovation! The only part that needed an update from old system was the drivetrain.. that is almost the same system since years and years. I will buy your bike the time it will be on the market Wink
  • 1 0
 this is so exciting to see. We need more of this sort of innovation in the bike scene, and more importantly we need resources that make it possible for innovation for people like this brilliant man and his brilliant concept to succeed. Put me down for a production supre drive.
  • 1 0
 This is a great design but it got me thinking. If the reason for this new setup is to prevent damage to standard derailleurs while mountain biking, then perhaps an upside-down derailleur might do the job, too, without a new frame design. I'm talking about the guide and jockey wheels being above the cassette/freewheel cogs instead of below.
  • 2 1
 Really amazing innovation for sure! Kudos! One question I have at this point is: how often are you dropping chains? By the looks of it in the video, highly likely. Especially if you were to be riding fast chunky terrain.
  • 15 0
 In this entire season, I dropped the chain once. In the future, this'll be prevented by a chain guide over the idler pulley like on other high pivot bikes. I've been test riding without a chain guide to make sure that the tensioner works well (it does).
  • 2 3
 Huh? Incredible chain wrap and good tension compared to standard derailleurs.
  • 2 0
 @AckshunW: watch the chain, the tensioner only helps near the chainring.
Thanks for the reply and honesty @cedric-eveleigh this is really awesome idea!
  • 2 0
 @AckshunW: a follow up, it was just a question to Cedric. Not ripping on him for this brilliant idea. If you watch the chain at 2:19, you can see why I asked the question.
  • 12 0
 @RBalicious: Actually, the drivetrain in the video has unusually low chain tension. I've been running it like this as a test. In hindsight, I should've tightened it back up a little before the filming to show how it'll be in production versions.
  • 2 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: good to know! Really brilliant design, again, thanks for the reply and honesty.
  • 2 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: How smoothly does it shift? Do you think you'll be able to get it to shift underload like the new Shimano stuff? I'm guessing that by isolating the tensioning and shifting parts, you might have more flexibility with regards to shifting performance. Also, how does your setup impact the weight of the system? Does it require a high pivot design? I guess, I'm interested in what the benefit is. Is it just durability or are their others. If you aren't breaking derailleurs, then the new Shimano stuff is pretty badass.
  • 5 1
 @Svinyard: It shifts exactly like the latest and greatest Shimano stuff. In fact, it uses the latest and greatest Shimano stuff (the cassette on the second prototype bike is a 12-speed 10-51t Shimano cassette with the 51t cassette cut off). Also, I have a working drivetrain prototype with a full 10-51t cassette. Yes, it requires a high pivot design. About weight, I recommend you read the article where there's info about that.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Very cool!!

So...is there a way to perhaps get around the high-pivot requirement? That certainly makes the design much more niche and limits your revenue pool.

Aside from durability, are there other benefits that go beyond the benefits of Shimano/Hyperglide+? We've seen a few minor improvements in derailleurs but when they greatly improved the ability to shift under load, that was a real feature that solved a real problem. I think for this to really "sing" and the product to take off big time, you'll need to solve one more significant customer problem beyond just durability. That's a high bar of course, but it seems like you are already on that level of innovation.
  • 2 0
 @Svinyard: There needs to be the idler pulley to allow for the range of motion of the tensioner arm.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Have you thought of splinting the tensioning duties between a shorter travel forward tension pulley and a more "traditional" short cage derailleur? I haven't sketched it up or anything, but with this arrangement it might just be possible to have the system work without an idler, hence on non-high pivot suspension. Just a thought. It'd make the derailleur less protected (but still far better than everyone's wide range long cage), but by losing the hp idler and associated drag it'd make the system more attractive/viable in the trail and xc market.
  • 1 0
 @kcy4130: Something in this general direction is where this tech will end up if it ever takes off. Someone will figure out how to make an "isolated derailleur" (call its isoShift) and get it to work with out the highpivot. I do think there needs be a bigger advantage than "its out of the way so more durable" tho. I don't think that is compelling enough as is aside from the novelty. It needs to "do something better" and solve another problem being that it'll require the industry to shift a bit. Maybe it could help with some of the same things a high pivot helps with, but not require a highpivot.
  • 3 0
 Looks like there’s a lot of chain slap, but maybe that’s just what chains look like when viewed in slow motion?
  • 2 0
 Yep - its no different to a normal rear derailleur when I ve seen them in slo mo
  • 1 0
 This is awesome. 12 speed range is great, but the current rear derailleur design is fragile and finicky (both big S brands). Curious to see which bigger players adopt this system.
  • 2 0
 I was just wondering how bikes will inevitably continue to get better than they already are, now that things are so dialed. This seems like a way for progress to continue.
  • 3 1
 This is what happens if clever people think about how to fix a real problem instead of thinking where to put electronics next... ( Looking at you SRAM)
  • 1 0
 Love that the prototype was developed with an old X9 derailleur... which I also have a box of after smashing them off my bikes in exactly the kind of conditions his invention helps manage!!
  • 2 0
 I'm pretty impressed by the ingenuity and innovation, but I can't be the only one who thinks that looks way more complicated than a regular derailleur.
  • 2 0
 Also a sneak preview of the latest geometry trend. Now that head tubes have slackened out, the top tube is getting the low and slack treatment.
  • 3 0
 The bicycle equivalent of tucking your testicles up inside to keep them out of harms way
  • 1 0
 Awesome. Now take the rear shifting mechanism and redesign it into a linear sliding pully, instead of parallel linkage from a conventional detailer, to drop more weight, simplify and make more compact.
  • 5 0
 I've considered this option. For a bit of historical context, check out the LMDS derailleur.
  • 2 2
 I think it adds too much cost and complexity, and derailleurs have worked fine for me for 40yrs. But these projects are important innovative steps ... we never arrive at change without testing, building, failing, modifying, tweaking etc.
  • 1 1
 I was thinking about something like this... A way to use a rear derailleur that will keep it safe... But I was thinking about something that would work with any & all of current bikes already on the market - something that would force me to have to spend thousands of dollars on a new frame\bike... =\
  • 1 1
 As someone who previously worked for a major bicycle drivetrain company - BRAVO!!!
Repeating what has been seen up thread in other comments; this is the type of drivetrain innovation for mountain bikes that is long overdue. I can't wait to see where it goes from here as it evolves and is perfected.
  • 2 0
 This is the middle finger to the industry that mountain biking needs. I would buy one of these in a heartbeat just so the big two can suck my ass
  • 1 0
 Cedric - SRAM and Shimano haven't called because they are trying to find a way around your patents. Patent the crap out of everything so they can't steal your idea! Best of luck with everything!
  • 2 0
 Wow - great thinking to split out the derailleur functions! Kinda unbelievable no-one tried this before... Well done!!
  • 3 0
 Those industry quotes! So funny.
  • 4 1
 F****** hilarious
  • 1 0
 LOL Bikes. f****** funny.
  • 1 0
 And all those singlespeed "Purists" complain about using a tensioner. Get over yourself. This thing twist, turns, and bends the chain 3000% more than that.
  • 3 1
 Looks like that thing needs a tensioner on the top too. Damn look at that chain bouncing around in the video.
  • 8 1
 watch a slow-mo video of any of the current drivetrain offerings, its the same if not worse up top...
  • 2 0
 @benkaufmann: which begs the question, should idlers be spring loaded too?
  • 3 0
 @MegaStoke: Top idlers can't be sprung because they are always under load when pedaling. When not pedaling, the spring tension comes from the tensioning idler pully below. If the top idler was sprung, so too would your pedaling, boing boing boing! There are other means for reducing the inconvenience of the top chain slap like rubber padding or road bike grips!
  • 1 0
 @benkaufmann: you are totally, and obviously correct. No way a spring loaded idler would work, I clearly didn’t think through my previous comment.
  • 1 0
 I´ve been always into shimano derailleurs just because I find them a bit more hidden in the frame, this is simply great! Good luck with getting this to mass market!
  • 3 0
 Damn, that's a good idea.
  • 1 0
 Thanks. I'm glad you think so.
  • 2 0
 Great job on the recent environment-related articles, by the way.
  • 1 0
 Great idea, but just curious how shorts (or of the older set, ballsacks) don't get caught up in that upper chainring / sprocket?
  • 1 0
 I've had zero issues.
  • 1 0
 I'm sold! I've often mulled over the idea of moving derailleurs inboard, but kudos to Cedric, he's actually put it into practice and this looks like a fantastic system.
  • 1 0
 what's the max gearing range for this system if it's not a high pivot suspension? Would you have to put an additional "fold" in the chain to support 10-51?
  • 3 0
 I have a working prototype of the drivetrain that uses a 10-51t 12-speed cassette. It's highly likely that the next prototype bike will have this bigger cassette range. To make the 10-51t range work, the idler pulley had to be moved forward to allow for more range of motion of the tensioner arm.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Should also try putting covers over the chain, which will make the chain last way longer!
Made something similar 15 years ago?
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: You have the ability to move the idler in a high pivot, but in a "conventional" suspension you don't have that option. Is there enough space in a conventional (say Horst link) suspension to take up all the slack?

PS: I should have led with how impressive it is. I'm especially impressed with your plans for going beyond the garage.
  • 1 0
 @muumuu: There needs to be an idler pulley to allow for the range of motion of the tensioner arm. But the idler pulley means you also get the benefits of better suspension performance of high pivot bikes.
  • 2 0
 Is it just me or does the deer’s face at 4:06 remind me of Shimano’s first impression?
  • 2 0
 Can you adapt this for a hardtail also? would love one for trials/skatepark use on my hardtail
  • 3 0
 Definitely! And for kids bikes as well.
  • 2 0
 Congratulations on your brilliant design @cedric-eveleigh! We're all rooting for you.
  • 1 0
 This is amazing work! Good luck to you buddy and I hope it gets taken up by some of the bigger players in the game! Watching with interest!
  • 2 0
 Would love to see a video of the tensioner/damper/bb/crank install! This is pretty rad.
  • 1 0
 I'll get around to this. Thanks for the suggestion.
  • 1 0
 This is the part of the system that I am most curious about as well. Seems like the trickiest part to execute.

I’m guessing there was no good way to make a torsion spring and roller clutch fit around the bb?
  • 2 0
 @huntingbears: I made prototypes with a torsion spring and damper around the BB, but there are huge advantages to the current system: well-sealed hydraulic damping and a cable system that produces approximately constant chain tension in all gears, and a thinner tensioner arm which gives frame designers more room for linkages and stuff in the BB area.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Cable actuated, ooh now I’m starting to see how you get the constant chain tension.

Thanks for the details!
  • 1 0
 @huntingbears: You can also check out lalbikes.com for a description of how the cable system works for producing approximately constant chain tension.
  • 1 0
 Eliminated any question or curiousity of
But does it shred?
In the beginning of the video pretty well
Looks like a pretty awesome invention
  • 1 0
 but the design still uses a derailleur from sram or shimano, have you designed and built your own proprietary half deraileuer part?
  • 1 0
 The derailleur is custom designed and specific to the Supre Drive. I used an old Sram derailleur with the cage cut off for the first prototype drivetrain (shown in one of the photos), but that drivetrain wasn't fully functional and it was only to prove the concept.
  • 2 0
 If I was picking between two otherwise similar frames, supre drive would be a massive selling point.
  • 1 0
 Just going to say that if Sram originally put this out, PB comments probably wouldn't be as enthusiastic because everyone would be blasting it as a "new standard"...
  • 1 0
 I tought and dream about thqt idea, that guy is just genius!! Man, you have just change the bike industry.. Yeti, take this guy to work with!!
  • 2 1
 Am I the only person in the world who has never had derailleur issues on the trail. Pink bike articles always seem to suggest that that exploding derailleurs is a big issue.
  • 1 1
 Depends on where you ride - literally had a stick flick up on todays ride - wedge between the jockey wheel and bend my rear mech today... nothing I could do about it... seem to get through one very 6 months or so... at the cost they are now its bloody anoying. Its such a stupid place to have such a delicate and expensive part. Eagle etc has made is really bad with these massive long mech arms.
  • 1 0
 Nice! ive been thinking this for a while. its about time someone did it. all ya gotta do now is put a cover on the frame and its done
  • 3 0
 Why is it a step through??
  • 1 0
 Aside from the joy of riding in itself, this is the kind of inventive spirit that reminds me of why I got into riding! Good job!
  • 3 0
 Right on man
  • 3 0
 yoooooo nice work!
  • 2 0
 Yup, big fan of that. Looking forward to how this develops.
  • 3 1
 This is awesome, I wonder who he is collaborating with for frames?
  • 3 0
 Brilliant!
  • 1 0
 That must be one of the best inventions in bike industry! I'll definitely get one of those frames.
  • 1 0
 Figure away to adapt that to existing frames u.ll make a milllion.sweet good luck .great idea..
  • 1 0
 Awesome work and dedication Cedric! Looking forward to seeing how things evolve for you and Lal Bikes.
  • 1 0
 Thanks Dan!
  • 2 0
 Damn impressive. Engineers are a special breed lol
  • 3 0
 YES!!!!!
  • 1 1
 " Secondly, the pulley cage tensions the chain when slack is created by shifting to smaller cogs,"

It tensions the chain all the time...
  • 2 0
 "Pinkbikes Set Stott".

New Editor/Presenter I see?
  • 1 0
 Haha! Damn auto-correct!
  • 2 0
 Whats up with that seat tho..?
  • 3 0
 The ultimate Levy bike.
  • 2 0
 Missing a linkage fork
  • 2 0
 @haen: you make a valid point
  • 3 0
 ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg
  • 1 0
 Habash would be proud Wink Congrats Ceddy, this is amazing! Keep up the great work.
  • 1 0
 lol thanks man
  • 2 0
 You Dawg! I heard you like pulley wheels...
  • 1 0
 This is brilliant! Kudos from another engineer who also runs an innovative design and manufacturing company - and good luck!
  • 2 0
 Speculation on the company he's working with?
I'm going to say Cannondale.
  • 4 0
 It's on-brand for Cannondale, but my guess is Devinci.
  • 2 0
 If Brunel was a mountain biker
  • 1 0
 Haha! I hope he is not that obsessed.
  • 1 0
 If this really takes off, you'll be seeing me on one. What we have now really sucks. SO MUCH CHAINSLAP.
  • 1 0
 WoW! Took some toggling to get at the bottom of comments ! Kudos Cédric! Like the logo too!
  • 1 0
 Thanks! About the logo, it was designed by Eric Pinfold (Phitted Design). And there's some background story about it that I'll share at some point on Instagram.
  • 1 0
 Difficult to go to market with this, it's now a combination between the frame design and rear mini-mech.
  • 3 2
 If you need this, you should probably examine your riding style, not your derailleur placement.
  • 4 3
 Seriously, I have NEVER, in my 25+ years of MTB had an issue with smashing rear derailleurs and now I am so happy with 1x drivetrains with clutch derailleurs nd narrow-wide chainrings I really have no complaints. I like the idea of better sprung/unsprung mass, but not at the expense of drag induced by more drivetrain pulleys.
  • 4 3
 @HeavyFlow:
1. You ride in the desert?
2. You never crash?
3. You don’t have kids?
  • 2 0
 holy engineering. from the ground up. killer work dude
  • 1 0
 & what about: 1. Oval Chainring support & 2. Grip Shifter support? =P
  • 1 0
 I'll be testing oval chainrings on the next prototype bike which will have more clearance between the chainring and the tension pulley. There no plans at the moment from grip shifter support.
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Re: Ovals\Dual Cams - THANK YOU... Re: Grip shift - PLEASE consider... O.O
  • 1 0
 Awesome invention, sure to give gearboxes a run for their money as well. Go Cedric
  • 1 0
 Awesome. Can't wait to see how it performs once installed on a major brand's frame with modern geometry and everything.
  • 1 0
 Glad to see that smart people still go on with experimenting on new solutions for passion Nice job!
  • 1 0
 finally a fresh idea for our dear industry...im in gibsons,you have my number,gimme a call JF
  • 2 1
 First proof that real pinkbike engineers do exist! Great invention - very inspiring.
  • 2 0
 Big derailleur hates him!
  • 1 0
 if the derailleur doesn't have Absolute Blacks Hollowcage then this is useless; Ask Hambini.
  • 1 0
 Probably dumb question : why are derailleurs hanging down and not up (which would keep them further away from harms way)?
  • 1 0
 Cool to see young guys trying to move the sport forward with an open mind. Nice work!
  • 1 0
 Nice work Cedric,
will you look into the front end, now, perhaps eliminating telescopic forks (please) ?
  • 2 1
 This is awesome. Nice work.
  • 2 0
 NAILED IT!
  • 2 0
 awesome!
  • 1 0
 Forget about the drivetrain. I want the frame!
  • 2 0
 Genius!
  • 1 0
 that's one "standard" I will happily accept
  • 1 0
 I love this. When can I buy stock?
  • 1 0
 Impressive innovation! Awesome job, Cedric.
  • 2 0
 chainsaw massacre
  • 1 0
 Very creative solution. Hope to bump into you on the trail next season
  • 1 0
 Very impressive, hope this goes a long way. Good luck!
  • 1 1
 I always preferred derailleurs over gear boxes despite it flaws. He took the flaws out. FTW!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 If you need someone to test it I’ll be right here.
  • 1 0
 You're awesome, such a cool innovation!
  • 1 0
 This is the coolest shit, would love a chance to throw a leg over it
  • 1 0
 Very impressive and great video to go along with it!
  • 1 0
 I want that setup sram brakes with shimano icetech rotors
  • 1 1
 He is DeVinci of modern cycling world! I am super impressed and feeling grateful!
  • 1 0
 Build it and they will come!
  • 1 0
 Bitcoin of mountain biking
  • 1 0
 This is so rad! I hate bent derailleur hangers so much!
  • 1 0
 Best of luck to you! This seems like a good option for dh.
  • 1 0
 Pant legs don't stand a chance.
  • 1 0
 Looks like the chain could easily drop on the top jockey wheel
  • 1 0
 Get some STFU chain slap guides on that thing
  • 1 0
 please don't sellout to China
  • 1 0
 @cedric-eveleigh does this play nice with oval chainrings?
  • 3 0
 I'll be testing that on the next prototype bike which will have more clearance between the chainring and the tension pulley.
  • 1 0
 I don't care how it rides or works, I want that bike.
  • 1 0
 It's tough yes, but will it blend?
  • 1 0
 It took my brain several times to stop reading "Canada" as "Germany".
  • 1 1
 Instead of spamming his opinion on the keyboard, this man was in the lab making it a reality! Kudos!
  • 1 0
 well well well... looks like a great idea
  • 2 1
 It's like nobody cares about weight or drive train efficiency anymore.
  • 1 0
 I can easily see this integrated in Rocky Mountain's eBikes.
  • 1 0
 Bravo. Fantastic execution!
  • 1 0
 Rock on Cedric, this looks awesome. Bravo
  • 1 0
 the drivetrain is nice, but what is the explanation on the seat?
  • 1 0
 Yes! Way to follow a passion and a good idea!
  • 1 0
 I wonder if this is the drivetrain that Chris Porter is working with?
  • 1 0
 Just one question: When are you releasing it in carbon?
  • 1 0
 ...and what about that saddle? Anyone knows?
  • 1 0
 I like it. I'm not sure if I want one, but I like it.
  • 2 1
 very cool
  • 1 0
 Hacker vibes
  • 2 1
 Very cool
  • 1 0
 Boouuummm!
  • 1 0
 take my money!!!
  • 2 1
 Gearbox!
  • 3 3
 Now you will just hit your chainstays on rocks.
  • 4 0
 Nothing is stopping you from hitting the non-driver side chainstay as things currently stand.
  • 1 0
 Awesome
  • 1 0
 "Engineers gone wild"
  • 1 0
 Well done, sir!
  • 1 0
 I absolutely love it!!!
  • 2 2
 is there also with the men's frame?
  • 1 0
 Love it, great work!
  • 1 0
 SEAT???
  • 1 0
 Excellent work!
  • 1 0
 Excellent.
  • 1 0
 I like it a lot!
  • 1 1
 no no no no, we need to stop making bikes else the world will melt.
  • 1 0
 Cedric, take my money!!!
  • 1 0
 Well-Fukin'-Done!
  • 1 0
 F yes!!
  • 1 0
 This is a big deal.
  • 1 0
 Good luck mate!
  • 2 2
 That bike is buttugly though....lol
  • 3 4
 Waiting for the news on that saddle reasoning.
  • 1 2
 Hmm... something's missing.
  • 3 2
 Nothing is missing except simplicity. It's a killer idea but the chain needs to be very long and it requires more moving parts AND a specific frame to mount it. I'm not sure if the innovation here outweighs the simplicity of a traditional derailleur but I applaud the designer for trying to make it better.
  • 6 0
 @dirtdiggler: As he said, there's pretty much the same amount of moving parts as before, but he moved them around to create a more efficient and productive system.
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