First Look: Race Face's New Next SL Bars Are Lighter & More Compliant - Pond Beaver 2021

 Riding an SQLab on my enduro, such a nice bar and yes its 31.8mm. whats really a mess is, to find a nice stem for 31,8mm. I rode 35mm bars and wow, no thx!

 No way man. Clearly we need another new standard here. 33.1mm possibly, all the benefits of 35mm without being too stiff. 31.8mm is like 26" wheels, so 2012.

 no no no, too stiff. make them 31,7999

 but then bike companies couldn't sell you new stuff, silly

 @maglor I was literally about to say the same thing! LOL. Guess what, you wouldn't have to "make them more compliant" IF THEY WERE 31.8!!!!

 Sshhhhhhhhhhh! Nothing to see here

 @Hamburgi: Newmen stems are tops and 31.8mm

 Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but 31.8 doesn't automatically make them more compliant and 35mm doesn't necessarily mean it's less compliant. Here is a pseudo scientific test that actually measured flex in a controlled environment from Vital : www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPHvBgm1Vvg .
TLDR: the 31.8mm carbon and alloy bars actually flexed less than the 35mm bars measured (19mm alloy and 18mm carbon), and the oneup only flexed 5% more than the race face (21mm vs 20mm).

 Almost as compliant as a 31.8mm bar, almost as light as one too, and only $180? Sign me the F up!

 @GBeard: Interesting. And begs the question, why buy a 35 then?? So silly....

 Well, for instance with easton they were able to make them lighter, stronger, and wider as a result.

 hmm

 @GBeard: The Vital test was a bit flawed as it only loaded one side. As such, the stem twist added to the deflection number. Our internal testing is more like 21% more compliant than average.

www.mtbr.com/attachments/one-up-handlebar-vertical-compliance-comparison-chart-jpg.1306631

I hope that helps,
Jon @ OneUp

 @OneUpComponents: You don't have to sell me, I already own an OneUp.

 @OneUpComponents: Also interesting to note in that chart is that when 35mm is compared with their identical 31.8mm counterpart that the 35mm actually flexed more (SiXc and Spank Vibrocore).
edit: actually not the fatbar though which looks close enough to be statistically insignificant.

 @OneUpComponents:

I went from raceface sixc 35 carbon to oneup 35 and one up are way way more comfortable. Very noticable.

 @sspiff: thx

 @vemegen:

#NERD-MODE-ON
Actually 31.8mm bars are in fact 31.75mm bars: just like the older 25.4mm bars, it's based on inches: It's 1 and 1/4 inch, which is exactly 31.75mm.
Which is why there used to be some companies calling it 31.7mm. Same size, just rounded down instead of up.

So your 31.7999 is stiffer than a regular "31.8mm" bar.
#NERD-MODE-OFF

 The compliance argument doesn’t bother me so much, as many have said the construction of the bar has a lot more to do with that than clamp diameter but if the diameter has little effect why do we have to suffer the pain of having 2 standards, if the new standard is obviously better and everyone adopts it then that transition period is worth it but as is evidence by how long we have been using both these sizes without a clear favorite there is not enough reason to have bothered with 35 in the first place. I think it’s also worth pointing out lots of marketing keeps talking about increased steering precision but it doesn’t matter how stiff your bars are when the torsional flex in suspension forks is where most of the precision is lost anyway.

 @OneUpComponents:
that graph... So close and yet so bad. More constructively: No units, tiny font size, and absolutely massive empty space. Just set the axis limits properly.

I'm guessing it was generated by the test rig software for internal use and was hastily edited for public consumption. Or it was made by an engineer.

/Hating.

 @dirtyburger: but we're filling that absolutely nonunitized massive space with anecdotes--at least weight and deflection are potentially measurable. Should vibration damping also be a part of 'compliance'?--the smaller diameter heavier bar would seem to be at an advantage. Same for toughness. When stem material/dimensions, grips, rider weight, terrain, and fork flex are factored, it's almost not worth discussing. That's why I'd ride what Metallier rides--if I didn't like M9 so much--but didn't kick NextR35 out of bed. Problems, problems, problems

 @GBeard: ha thx. f*** the haters. im runnin 35s and there's nothin wrong with it.

 @CamLamson: It feels like the front and rear suspension is designed for damping...odd though, I know. Using a carbon stick and adding managing the damping characteristics of it (fixed and uncontrolled) seems a bit pointless.

 A bar behaves like leaf spring and also has its own resonant frequencies.

 @GBeard: With the RaceFace, yes. Maybe different layup? However, the Spank Vibrocore’s are not identical at all. The 35 has 20mm more rise compared to its 31.8 counterpart. Higher rise bars typically have much more vertical compliance. There’s probably many variables that make a bar compliant/stiff, not just the diameter. Aesthetically, a 35mm bar, comfortable or not, makes most fork stanchions look like noodles. I’ve tried many bars and the reality is that most carbon bars and most 35mm bars make my teeth rattle they’re so uncomfortably stiff. IMO, the OneUp is the most comfortable carbon bar and the Spank Vibrocore 31.8 is the most comfortable aluminum bar.

 @danthepirate: I hear what you're saying. On my previous bike, it came with 31.8 bars, and I never changed them. recently I bought a used bike and it came with Chromag BZA carbon 35s. honestly, I couldn't feel a difference and didn't question it until now. it doesn't feel stiffer or uncomfortable at all.
www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2952634

 @GBeard: Since all the results from that Vital test were close to being the same for all bars, it's entirely possible the measurement setup itself was responsible for most of the flex. There would have to be a cross check with a solid piece of bar stock before I would take any of those numbers seriously.

 Marketing people, please hire this person.

 Sure you're not bending the truth just a little?

 @noapathy: You guys need to get a grip. Seriously.

 That's a big flex for the marketing guys to exploit.

 Cutting 60mm off your bar is a neat way to make it light. Also, too light is scary to me.

 @ckcbmrice: I know I may come off as stiff, but it all stems back from when I was 35.

 Are you trying to get a rise our of me, or sweep me off my feet?

 Let's roll back the puns folks. I can't handle it.

 right?

 @CDT77: it wasn't the Yeti?
I like this kind of anecdotal evidence, but I wonder if you'd have noticed the same difference back to back on the same bike, only swapping bars.

 @CDT77: yeah different bike doesnt mean shot about the bars.

 I'm not an architect or an engineer but I think different grips will play a big part in how untrained hands/arms feel about their bars. Also what about the fact that one of my 35mm bar bikes is a fatty that I am usually riding with some crazy-thick 4" padding pillow gloves from LL bean. Those "bars" feel very forgiving. :-)

 @ybsurf: It wasn't just me.. there were two of us - same deal - we both (very quickly) noticed the difference, the SB150 was set up well and it wasn't like we were plowing through chunder. I've observed the same on multiple diff. demo bikes with alum. bars as well. Not to the same degree, nor was it the end of the world type of stuff.. but noticeable.. I could swap on an alum. bar on my bike - but probably never will.

 Ignorance is bliss.

 Definitely could use a blind test where the bars are taped over to compare a 167g carbon with a 350+g alloy. Get the same rise, length, and sweep and see where the results end up.

Separate thought - Race Face is going to have a heck of a time selling 740mm bars, that's just dated.

 Now every ride you are going to think about your bars and whether they are compliant enough and if you need the new more compliant bars. The seed has been planted.

 @Snowytrail:

Straight up XC bars. Nino runs 6## bars, and seems to do alright. Richie Rude runs 750s on his enduro rig, and many EWS pros run shorter.

Don't be a slave to marketing and fashion trends.

 @ybsurf: no but the difference when I switched out my alloy FSA bars for Race Face Next (both cut to the same width) on my 130 downcountry hardtail the difference was night and day in arm pump and hand fatigue.

 @lifeofloon: Where are you riding a downcountry bike where the descents are long enough and rough enough to even get arm pump?

 @bradmcam: I ride the same trails as ride my Enduro. Regardless of what your opinion is riding the same trails I always had with alloy bars, I was getting a much more comfortable ride for my arms and hands with carbon. To add to another commenter, I run the same grips on all my bikes.

 @lifeofloon: I wasn't having a crack, just thought you may have been doing some epic descents on your hardtail and was genuinely interested. I have no doubt the carbon bars made a difference for you.

 @bradmcam: right on man. I don't take it to the park for downhill laps it gets abused in every other way the Enduro does.

 @bradmcam:

In the mountains.

 even their 31.8mm bars have been terrible, I suspect they have copied Vibrocore but use concrete instead of the foam

 @lognar: I break one pair of any manufacturers bars and you can bet they aren't having a second go at knocking my teeth out.

 Yeah I've got the 35mm aluminium Atlas. It's so harsh it's not funny. But with ESI Chunky grips it is at least bearable

 I have older Easton 750 mm 35mm bars and they seem to be OK.

 totally agree that the industry should've stayed with a 31.8 mm clamp. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

 Ahh the great bar debate! Get an alloy bar and take the extra dough and tune your fork. You're telling me you can notice the vibration difference between 31.8 & 35 while ripping down a rock garden? Right.

 @elemon58: But then you woudn't need to upgrade! $$$$$$$

 @lognar: ditto. I think the Next SL stands for Next Serious Liability.

 @nbrewste: maybe not at that moment - but yes, everywhere else!

 @hhaaiirryy: try Santa Cruz bars - they come with a lifetime warranty now

 @bashhard: same bars, honestly never really minded. Happier on Rentals in 31.8 on my new trail bike, though.

Harshest bars I've ever used, straight up jackhammers, Surly Sunrise. Cool moto/bmx/clunker appeal, feel and weigh like solid steel. They're 22.2mm!

 I posted this video above but just thought the results applied to your comment. Here is a video from vital measuring different bars flex in a controlled environment: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPHvBgm1Vvg . The race face actually flexed more than the deity (which actually flexed the least of the bunch) 20mm vs 16mm.

 @GBeard: The Vital test was a bit flawed as it only loaded one side. As such, the stem twist added to the deflection number. Our internal testing is more like 21% more compliant than average.

www.mtbr.com/attachments/one-up-handlebar-vertical-compliance-comparison-chart-jpg.1306631

I hope that helps,
Jon @ OneUp

 @DoctorWatson: sounds like you need to maintain your bike a lot better. everything falls apart if you ride the piss outta it and don't clean. too many people like you who complain about components wearing out and PrEsS FiT bottom brackets SUCK! it's not the case. you guys SUCK at maintaining your shit,

 @ridingofthebikes: hahaha thanks for judging without knowing..... I'm reflecting my experience from a bike industry insider since 15 years - and i can tell you, People(some Customer take a lot of care about their bikes) me included and you still have more wear than other parts 30mm BB's. But if you believe that my complaints are a part of maintaining i leave you with that. Cheers

 @DoctorWatson: MAINTAIN YOUR BIKE DUDE!!!!

 @kyytaM: I have older Easton 750 mm 31.8mm bars and they seem to be OK.

 Not much

 Looks Flexy

 Yep I always "downgrade" to Renthal 31.8 alloy bars on my bikes. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 @bmxRC009: To be fair, I believe 31.8 to be an acquired preference. While it may be yours, it's not everybody's. I'm a 220lb rider, I personally ride 35 dia bars, and feel the stiffness is ideal. Not harsh at all. I feel 31.8 bars are too soft, and feel like a wet noodle, but thats just me.

 @jomacba: I guess in this case, cover is a good thing - you'll be happy with a reinforced scaffold pole and I'll be avoiding 35mm bars like they're pre coated in dog excrement! The problem comes when buying whole bikes when different riders find expensive components like wheels and forks noodly or uncomfortable. Perhaps I should be buying women's bikes in size large...

 @mountainsofsussex: Thats a fair statement. I primarily ride DH, and last season I had ridden quite a few bar stem combos both carbon and alloy, as well as several fork and shock combos. I tested quite a few offsets as well. I eventually settled for a setup of components that I felt complimented my riding style best, as well as something that I felt had great after sales support, and access to service parts ect.
The challenge with a bike built from a manufacturer is creating something that works for everybody, while simultaneously trying to provide the newest part (associated with cost) and ultimately trying to keep the bikes affordability competitive relative to the tier of build.
While this is a place most people start, unfortunately no setup is going to be 100% ideal for most riders.
A bar/stem combo is a relatively inexpensive part to tune the flex profile and effect the riding characteristics to suit your needs. Best things to look for is ideally a bike that gives you most of what your looking for, but most importantly the big ticket items should be at the top of that priority list.
A general mindset is that bikes and components are developed in conjunction with professional riders. While this a mostly true, the final product released to the public can sometimes be altered as pro riders can vary drastically in preference.
I think you hit the nail on the head in saying "cover is a good thing"

 @jomacba: flipping auto correct - was supposed to be choice is a good thing... Need a new phone standard for fat fingers!

 @mountainsofsussex: I knew what you meant, I figured it was some sort of UK lingo

 @jomacba: same here. I’m 110-112kg (243-247lbs) kitted up and actually find my current 35mm e-thirteen race carbon bars to be absolutely spot on for stiffness and comfort. Not sure whether I’d feel the same way if I were a smaller, lighter or less aggressive rider though?

 @arna86: Hard to say. There is so much variance from brand to brand as well. Most guys these days are on 35, be it what they have or what they chose.

 @jomacba: I'm lighter now but when I was 231 lbs i got by just fine on 31.8 (I certainly didn't want them any bigger diameter) so I don't understand how u find them to feel like a wet noodle.

 @rabidmonkfish: Well I guess it all comes down to rider preference.
We also need to take into account brand, bike setup, riding style ect ect.
I've ridden some very stiff and harsh bars, and some very soft bars. I feel an inherent delay in response if the bar is too soft. Maybe it's my mind messing with me, but thats my perspective

 the difference is actually pretty significant, switch between OneUp and Race Face bars and I'm sure you'll notice it on the first rock garden

 @f00bar: I switched between an Easton Haven 35 carbon, a 31.8 Chromag Al, and a 35mm chromag carbon. While stationary, yeah I notice a difference in the amount of flex I can provoke but while riding, not so much. I think there is a lot of placebo effect happening here.... but maybe I'm an outlier.

 @Maestroman87: nope, your not. But the 31.8 - 35mm debate is cool to talk about

 @f00bar: I actually have both Race Face NextR and a OneUp bars - both 35mm rise and both 35mm clamp. They are equally comfortable and I cannot honestly tell the difference between them (besides the raceface looking better).

I'm at least sort of sensitive to bars too as I got a ton of hand numbness with my old SC carbon 20 rise bars, I get none with either of these bars.

 @f00bar: I didn't. Not to say others wouldn't, I'm just not that sensitive. Also, I suspect a lot of the advantages of compliant or vibration damping bars is likely to be felt over the course of a day or a week, rather than in simple A/B testing.

 I suspect the different feel may have more to do with a bar's resonant frequency than how much it actually flexes. A bar that buzzes at painful frequencies is going to feel unpleasant, while another one that might deflect exactly the same amount could still feel nicer if it tends to resonate at a different frequency. If you've ever handled rebar and hard PVC pipe you can understand what I'm getting at. The rebar, while far more flexy, vibrates a lot when you hit it. The pipe basically doesn't flex, but also doesn't make the same nasty buzz when you hit it.

 @brianpark: After riding with a OneUp bar all summer I switched it out to an aluminum bar because I was going to sell the bike stock. I rode across the parking lot at Cougar Canyon (headed to Kill Me Thrill Me) and thought my fork was broken for a second. The difference when switching from OneUp to stock RaceFace is night and day.

Going the other way would be easier to ignore, but once you get dialed into your bike one way, making just a bar change to something harsh and non-compliant vs the OneUp will slap you in the face.

 @Jvisscher: yeah I'm interested to see when I switch back. I'm glad that smaller people have this option for more compliant bars, but TBH regardless of how good they are I can't wait to put 760-780 bars back on.

 Most mountain biking is actually XC but no one wants to admit it. XC is fun!

 Downcountry ain't dead!

 @4thflowkage: yea, no hate to XC at all. my local trails are pretty XC based, but if I have the chance, I’m driving the 2 hours to go to the park. XC is a great way to stay in shape, too, which makes a good trade off when I’m flying down rocks after a 10 minute chairlift ride

 Username checks out

 Well, you were comfortable saving a few grams from Al. To another, they would be saying the same about your choices. However, I 100% agree with you, definitely not a place to be a weight weenie..... but I apply that to basically every component.

 True that. I'm cool with the possibility of most of the components of my bike eventually breaking, but never want to know what it's like for a handlebar to snap.

 @rodeostu: It's chilling to have a bar break in your hand. I was lucky, Al bars snapped half way between stem and grip on my street/dirt jumper. I was doing an abubaca when it broke, so pulling the bar towards me, hence the bike went forward and I just fell on my ass and was fine. But the sight of the super sharp end of the bar still on the bike was scary. If the bars had snapped on a landing or compression it would have been pretty likely that I'd have impaled myself on it. I learned not reuse bars from a well used dh bike that day.

 @kcy4130: I also had a handlebar snap in an unexpected scenario. Mine was on the pull up to hop a curb. Similarly I didn't get hurt but won't forget it. It was a 25.4 aluminum bar on a cheap hardtail and it broke near the edge of the stem.

 Then count yourself lucky and not the target customer for a more compliant bar. I'm older (49) and have had several shoulder injuries as well as neck. The compliance in the OneUp bar makes a world of difference for me, personally. I used to run a RF sixc and it was way too stiff.

 I think It depends a lot on your terrain. There is one trail near me that is miles and miles of unending small rocks, almost like cobblestones. On just that one trail I can feel the difference, but if I set up my suspension for that trail it's crap almost everywhere else. Like @CircusMaximus I'm in my 40s, and I've gotten a little beat up over time.

 We just ordered this for my wife’s bike. She’s f*cking pumped to have something actually designed close enough to her size to not have a product’s performance destroyed by cutting 10% of the length off.

 Not sure how I missed this one.

 iirc there are at least two german brand making sub 100g xc carbon bar. 31.8mm tho. still, mind blowing weight, that.

 Sample size of one, but I've noticed a big positive difference swapping out stock aluminum bars for carbon bars. Noticeably less chatter and hand fatigue after a big ride. That said, it could be that the backsweep, upsweep, and width are just better for my body instead of the carbon vs. aluminum properties. I have no way of knowing, but I don't see myself going back.

 I weigh 160 lbs and do mostly trail type riding only seldom doing drops much over 3'. I can't tell the difference between CF and decent quality aluminum bars.

 @rodeostu: ok thanks

 The new Next SL crankset and Atlas pedals - now inseparable

 @timothyjplatt79 They are already pointing out that a special pair of grips can get them to 754mm. Bad to see that they are already covering up for a nonsensical choice.

 Perhaps ride the bar before judging exclusively on clamp OD and total width? Or at least wait for a review and some independent test data?

 @superkeen: I ride a 750 on one bike 740 on another and don’t really notice the difference. I’m just saying going with a smaller width cuts out a huge portion of the potential market, and they are fully aware of this limitation which is why the special grips are pushed.

It’s just simple, if buying a bar it takes about 5-10 minutes to cut it shorter, but you can’t really get it any wider... I’m not sure what test data would show me that 740 is the perfect width that will change anything.

 @bruvar: I think its personal preference with respect to width. You could buy the Next Bar at 760mm? 13g weight penalty, not the latest and greatest optimized flex, but it seems like they have you covered.

 @bruvar: how exactly do you define ‘nonsensical’?

 @CircusMaximus: apparently as "not exactly what I, Bruvar, wanted"

 @superkeen: hahaha

 @superkeen: Thing is this bar is exactly what I wanted, will just need to make sure it fits into next months budget. It would literally be a direct replacement for the Aeffect bar I currently have that is just a rock with zero flex or dampening.

Most XC bikes are coming stock with 760 & 750 and I just know how stubborn people are, once they see a number bigger is better and smaller isn't an option. Just like you don't see many successful 120mm droppers these days.

 Yeah whats the point of running 740mm with 35mm clamp. Soon the bar length is going to be 600mm with a 50mm bar clamp.

 What’s wrong with 740 on an xc bar?

 @thisspock: why would you need a 35mm clamp for a xc bar?

 I use 740mm on my enduro bike, I'm short at 5'7".