First Look: Shimano's New Deore XT Group

Apr 15, 2015
by SHIMANO  
Shimano XT 2016

With DEORE XT M8000, Shimano has elevated the performance level and options of the industry’s original mountain bike component group to accommodate limitless riding adventures. With DEORE XT M8000, Shimano delivers XTR-level features, premium performance and value. Now 11-speed, new DEORE XT M8000 brings powerful, dynamic performance that establishes a new benchmark for mountain bike excellence. With DYNA-SYS11 Shimano encourages modern mountain bikers to ride anywhere with its advanced gearing concept that helps maintain rider efficiency. Designed with both XC and aggressive trail riders in mind, DYNA-SYS11 brings enduring performance thanks to smart materials and enhanced drivetrain stability due to new derailleur and chainring designs.

Shimano XT 2016
Expanded Rhythm Step gear options
Like its XTR sibling, DEORE XT M8000 offers 1x11, 2x11, and 3x11 crank options to satisfy any type of rider ability level or terrain. New 2x11 and 3x11 M8000 drivetrains, expand range while maintaining even better rhythm when paired with an 11-40T cassette for optimized cadence control. An exciting addition for DEORE XT M8000 is a 1x11 specific 11-42T cassette that expands Shimano’s 1x11 gear range slightly over the race inspired 11-40T of XTR.
• HG-X11 specific tooth profile
• Aluminum spider
• Aluminum (40T/42T) and steel cogs
• Rhythm Step progression
• 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-31-35-40
• 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42

DEORE XT cranks: Rider Tuned for any terrain
DEORE XT M8000 cranks feature Rider Tuned 11-speed gearing that will take you anywhere you want to go. Whatever option you choose, new materials provide consistent long-life shifting performance and chain management.The DYNAMIC CHAIN ENGAGEMENT (DCE) 1x11 tooth profile in new XTR and DEORE XT groups increases chain retention force by 150%, drastically decreasing dropped chains. Stainless steel chain ring teeth provide long life and lasting chain retention. All new DEORE XT cranks turn on an updated bottom bracket that reduces weight and bearing drag while improving mud durability.
• Most advanced DEORE XT chainrings ever produced
• Long wearing and great shifting
• Carbon/stainless steel construction (outer or middle ring)
• 1x11 with DYNAMIC CHAIN ENGAGEMENT
• Offered in 30T, 32T, and 34T
Shimano XT 2016

True Trail 2x11
• Optimized gear combination for improving shifting quality and driving efficiency
• Offered in 34-24T, 36-26T, 38-28T
• Bold 3x11 for the lowest gear and widest range ever produced
• Offered in 40-30-22T
• Chainline +3mm outboard cranks offered for 148 OLD hubs
•+3mm outboard chain line
• 1x11 with 30T, 32T, and 34T
• 2x11 with 36-26T
• New bottom bracket
• Press fit and threaded options
• Improved durability
• Reduced seal drag
• Lighter weight
Shimano XT 2016
Shimano XT 2016
Redesigned, lighter action derailleurs
Both the front and rear DEORE XT M8000 derailleurs receive a complete makeover. The DEORE XT M8000 rear derailleur features Shimano’s pioneering Shadow RD + technology and a refined geometry for increased stability. The Shadow RD + is also now more easily adjustable for either maximum stability or lower shift effort.
• New Shadow design with optimized, shallow slant angle
• Extremely low profile design
• Reduced shift effort
• Improved driving and shifting stability
• External adjusting clutch tension
• 1x11 and 2x11 compatible GS and 3x11 compatible SGS options
• High efficiency pulleys
• Direct mount compatible

Debuted on XTR M9000, the DEORE XT Side Swing front derailleur brings a drastic reduction in shift effort while also increasing tire clearance.
• FD-M8020 2x11 and FD-M8000 3x11 options
• Light, crisp shift action
• New structure with current mounting options and new cable routing
• High clamp, Low clamp, D-type, E-type (without plate)
• Increased tire clearance allows for shorter chainstays

Shimano XT 2016
Deore XT Shifters
Designed with long travel trail bikes in mind DEORE XT shifters enhance feel, ergonomics, reduce shift effort Shimano’s new DEORE XT M8000 shifters feature improved ergonomics and longer, textured levers that create an enhanced interface between rider and controls and decrease shift effort. MULTI RELEASE shifting increases trail capability while Vivid indexing guarantees shift accuracy.
• 20% lower shift effort with new OPTISLICK cable
• Improved vivid index mechanism
• New ergonomics
• Textured levers
• Multi / Instant and 2-WAY release

Shimano XT 2016
Shimano XT 2016

DEORE XT hydraulic disc brakes
Industry-standard braking is even better DEORE XT hydraulic disc brakes are the industry benchmark for affordable high performance. With M8000, Shimano retains that standard while upgrading with a new, integrated master cylinder. This gives a sleeker look, saves weight and frees up valuable handlebar space.
• Trail rated for power
• Servo Wave levers offer high power and short stroke
• Integrated master cylinder is lighter, cleaner and more durable
• Refined Servo Wave for improved feel and feedback
• Narrow clamp band offers increased adjustment
• Free stroke and tool-free reach adjust

Shimano XT 2016
Shimano XT 2016
Lighter, wider rimmed DEORE XT Race and Trail wheels
The WH-M8000-TL-275/29 and WH-M8020-TL-275/29 offer new tubeless-ready aluminum rims in 20mm and 24mm internal width respectively. Each rim provides a wider platform for modern mountain bike tires while also saving 40 grams over previous models. All wheel sets use 28 butted spokes both front and rear.
• Tubeless aluminum options
• Trail (WH-M8020) with 24C tubeless rim
• Race (WH-M8000) with 20C tubeless rim
• New lightweight hubs feature
• 28 butted spokes front and rear
• Hand-built Shimano quality
Shimano XT 2016
Shimano XT 2016
DEORE XT pedals offer wider, redesigned platform
Shimano’s new PD-M8000 Race and PD-M8020 Trail pedals offer legendary SPD performance that improves the rider experience at this vital connection point. With increased stability and contact area over the previous generation, power, control and confidence are improved.
• Race (PD-M8000) and Trail (PD-M8020) models
• 2.8mm wider platform increases stability PD-M8000 (vs PD-M780)
• 3.3mm wider platform increases stability PD-M8020 (vs PD-M785)
• Lower platform height by 0.5mm
• Increased pedal-to-shoe contact area improves efficiency
• PD-M8000 Race: 7.7% more contact (vs PD-M780)
• PD-M8020 Trail: 11.7% more contact (vs PD-M785)


www.shimano.com


416 Comments

  • + 350
 The marketing team must have really burnt the candle at both ends preparing for this launch. Fitting the words Performance, Efficiency, Dynamic, Banchmark, Premium, Enhanced, and Excellence into 1 paragraph must have taken some doing.
  • + 74
 Optislick cable
  • + 243
 And yet, they left out the word ENDURO!... DONT THEY KNOW WHAT THE CONSUMERS WANT?!?!
  • + 81
 "agressive trail riders" that way they avoid the hate towards the e-word.
  • - 3
 when is this going to be available? couldn't find it anywhere.
  • + 25
 And where is the pricing?
  • + 16
 If the XTR launch is any indication, this is 12 months out, & 9 months from pricing being announced. Though it would behoove them to get this out at about the same time as SRAM GX
  • + 35
 $100 cassette... the Praxis 10spd 11-42 just became completely useless lol
  • + 14
 ^well thats a 10 speed and this is an 11 speed. The praxis one also only goes to 40T if I remember correctly
  • + 17
 in all seriousness if that "optislick" cable is anything like the cables they use in their 11 speed road groupos then it'll be real smooth. but that is a seriously lame name haha
  • + 47
 "ours can go to eleven"
  • + 9
 @ghostinthetrail I hope those prices are right, thats a full 1x11 groupset (excluding BB) for less than £400. Very very tempting.
  • + 5
 @J-McBride that's MRP, the prices will be lower.
  • + 4
 @enduroelite if you need that extra push over the cliff.
  • + 17
 I would like to see 1up find something ground breaking or this will kill them. 1x11 is getting cheap enough that people will be headed that way, plus it will be on everything stock above $2500 within a year. I give them 2 years to figure it out before their market share has shrunk below profitability. Frown
  • + 60
 best thing?

the 11 speed Shimano cassette (and drivetrain) runs on a standard freehub body. no need for specialist drivers or a new rear hub / new wheel

makes it very accessible to all riders.
  • + 2
 @andnyleswillriot I couldn't remember if the Praxis was 11-40 or 11-42... dead in either scenario as the new 11spd XT will fit on a 10spd freehub just the same.

I guess if you go the XT route you'll need a new shifter/derailleur too but not needing a RAD cage will cover most of one of those at least.
  • + 3
 Still got to buy a new derailleur and shifter to go 11 speed, think praxis is still worth a punt
  • + 10
 hey shimano you had 3 years to create that group, I'm not going to wait one more year, so give me one right now !
  • - 3
 @mattvanders I read below that Shimano said the 10speed shifters will work with this group set.
  • + 5
 @only1mikey, that can't be right. But the 10s deraileur could work; you'd need the 11s shifter and cassette, and probably chain. Still a nice way to go from 2x10 to 1x11 relatively cheap though.
  • + 1
 @Drew-O see @lumpy873 's post below, just quoting what he wrote.
  • + 2
 @mattvanders obviously depends where you get your stuff from but a RAD cage is $50 and the Praxis cassette is $130 if I remember right. I just bought 11spd XTR shifter for $75, derailleur for $150, and cassette for $200. XT usually sells for about half of XTR... so $75 + $150 + $200 / 2 = $212. I'd gladly pay $212 vs. $180 to get the new XT over a RAD cage and Praxis cassette. Sell your old stuff and it becomes cheaper than the Praxis option. I really like the Praxis stuff I've used but I just see the cassette not being bought with this option now available.
  • + 32
 The product development only took 1 month. The other 11 were devoted solely to that paragraph.
  • + 5
 Both the bikeradar and pinkbike articles have suprising detail for pre release information, but what I'm begging to find out is whether it uses standard 104bcd so you can use existing cranks with the new chainring?
  • - 6
flag morcombemedia (Apr 15, 2015 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 I think Ill still stick with my Guide RSC's thanks but these do look 'grouse'
  • + 1
 @Alias530 running medium X9 so no need to buy RAD cage. $212 v $130, a little more interesting and none of the problems of narrower tolerances that 11 speed offers for smooth quick shifting
  • + 6
 I'm so glad those shifters as designed for longer travel bikes...
  • + 5
 @jamesg1997 , no, it's a totally different BCD, but there is plenty of NW option available for your current cranks. Unless you're bent on using Shimano's tall tooth profile, I think you'll be okay with your current crank and options of readily available NW rings.
  • + 9
 Goodbye sram and conversion cogs, don't let the door hit you on the way out!
  • + 4
 On second glance, aluminum large cog?!? f*ck sakes come on slx cassette.
  • + 6
 O.k im sorry about my Sram Guide RSC comment I tka it back These look awesome
  • + 3
 @turbotosic SRAM does the same thing... The weight weenies would never buy an all steel one. That big ass 40T cog in steel would weigh half as much as the rest of the cassette.
  • + 4
 Jamesg1997: the bolt pattern is not on equal spacing, so not "standard" WRT rings.
  • + 4
 They forgot to add Extraordinary Customer Care and Service. I send my Zee brakes coz it was leaking last year on December. April and still waiting.
  • + 0
 Sign me up before Boost gets here. Ahhhaaahhhh.
  • + 6
 I was going to do a 1x10 conversion and was considering the Praxis cassette, but now I may just wait for this. The price of Praxis and RAD I can get a XT derailleur, shifter and cassette and have cheaper cassette costs when mine wears out, not another $130 cassette.
Sorry Praxis and OneUp, you need something new now. Narrow Wide chainrings will still survive, but the rest is going to die.
  • + 1
 Is there anything stopping you from running sram shift/derailleur with a shimano cassette? removed the need for a new freehub and potentially better shifting between the higher gears
  • + 1
 @mattvanders No, but if they're priced competitively, XT shifts better than X9 or X7 (& presumably, GX.)
  • + 1
 @groghunter prefer the shifter design of sram eg a thumb to do both shifts rather than thumb and finger of shimano (the same finger that would should be hovering over the brake)
  • + 2
 Thumb and finger? I've only ever used my thumb to shift with sram or shimano
  • + 1
 yeah, shimano you can use your trigger finger to shift as well, and i hate that, it feels better using SRAM's thumb only shifters
  • + 1
 You know you don't have to use it... it's a nice option to have.

Multi release would be nice to have with SRAM. 5 downshifts at once is pretty sweet with SRAM but only one upshift? lame
  • + 0
 All I see is a front derailleur. And I don't want to.
  • + 2
 As others have said @mattvanders you don't know what you're talking about. Shimano shifters will downshift with either the index finger or the thumb, but only the thumb allows you to drop multiple gears, which SRAM does not have an answer for. Being able to move multiple gears in either direction is the standout feature for drivetrains featuring cassettes with 10 cogs or more. I drop multiple gears on downhills more often than not, & the "deep push" to drop 2 gears on Shimano is far more accurate than the "multiple taps" I have to do on SRAM: rough terrain has added a tap more than a few times on my SRAM equipped bikes.

I only use the index finger method on the workstand.
  • + 2
 As far as i know shimano has a few patents on their triggers but i'd love to see what sram could pull off without the limitation of shimanos patents.
  • + 2
 Agreed. Pre-10 speed, SRAM were my favorite, I found them to be more positive & the shifting seemed to happen quicker.
  • + 3
 @groghunter I know you can thumbshift down with shimano as well as index, i ran shimano for a number of year, I just PREFER the shifter design (nice and large paddles/more ergonenomic design). To me, the sram/shimano argument might as well be whats better, cats or dogs? everyone has a prefence
  • + 1
 You should really look at the saint shifter then, as it's paddles beat anything SRAM I've ever tried.
  • + 167
 The groupset everybody has been waiting for. Sram range with good old XT durability and price.
  • + 50
 This group looks A+. Aesthetically the cranks are better than the new XTR, and the new brakes and derailleur look sweet. I'll be seriously considering these parts for the next build!
  • + 14
 Definately this new groupo takes the fight to SRAM. The winner will be be who aggressively price packages deals to the manufacturers. Shimano have got the brakes in demand but SRAM can probably package RockShox into manufacturer bulk buy deals.
  • + 39
 Im glad to see that they have finally got rid of the chrome on the brakes
  • - 1
 its too pretty.still.
  • - 6
flag hatton (Apr 15, 2015 at 9:03) (Below Threshold)
 Disappointed to see that they're keeping the weak point on their derailleurs, the small plate the connects to the hanger and has another pivot point on it. I've bent like 3 zee derailleurs at that spot in the last two years and know plenty of other people with the same issue. SRAM's stuff is much chunkier and less likely to bend there. Let the $15 hanger thats easy to bend back fail rather than my $60-200 derailleur.
  • + 7
 @hatton That small link is made that way on purpose, in order to make it harder to hit. that's what "shadow" (not shadow plus, just shadow) derailleurs are, is the smaller link.
  • + 15
 According to Singletrack, the RRP of the cassette is £74.99! This makes me happy Big Grin
  • + 13
 Shimano lets you remove that link, but you have to ask your frame manufacturer for a 'shimano direct mount' derailleur hanger. Some bike companies offer this, some don't. Shimano is basically saying they no longer agree with the standard attachment point of the derailleur with respect to the axle that has been shared for years by shimano, SRAM, campy, etc. If a company refuses to offer the DM hanger, the customer has to use that little link you don't like.
  • + 15
 when talking about range everyone always looks to the big cog. the small cog is still 11T people. a 10T cog is 9% more powerful. 9% people that is a whole lot. 'sram range' i dont think so
  • + 15
 But it's not the same range as SRAM. 11-42 = 382% range, 10-42 = 420% range.
  • + 6
 @noahcharles has got the right of it. 36 to 42 is only 3%, that 9% change at the small end is huge.
  • + 5
 11 speed without an increased gear range is meh
  • + 10
 10-42 is quite acceptable
  • + 7
 And even Sram's 1x11 could use more range. By my calculations i need a 28 in the front to effectively equal 22-32 on my 26" bike, if going 1x11 on a 27" bike. But that means only a 2.8 gear on the heavy end, which is less than my 32-11 now. And even that 32-11 is a bit on the short side, i could use a 36 in the front to be honest.

A 1x11 system with something like 44-9 would be ideal IMO. But you can't go 9t without having polygon effect noticeable. THerefore you go 56-11 if i'm not mistaken. And you throw away the 1/2" pitch chain in favour of a 10 mm one!

(yes, a 10 mm pitch 56-11 cassette has the same size as a 44-9 1/2" would have)
  • + 2
 im not gonna say sram's system is better. ive never worked on an XD driver body. i know at least one seasoned wrench that has a lot of bad things to say about them. but when it comes to range sram is still dominating. a 10T cog means one maybe even two sizes smaller chainrings! lets not go inflating shimano for giving us the range at the heavier end
  • + 9
 yes, but ours go to eleven...
  • - 1
 Who the hell uses the bottom gear (10 or 11t). 99.9% of the time you are in the mid to upper gears or should be.
  • + 15
 I use it.
  • + 41
 Who uses the 10t? Me... pedaling on the road to the bar after a ride. That's how I get there 9% faster and am already drinking beer when everyone else shows up. True story.
  • - 4
flag tiagomano (Apr 15, 2015 at 12:01) (Below Threshold)
 i don't think that from 11 to 10 t you will see that much difference ,i ride a lot on road an yes, you can bottom that out on flat or descend's but so as with 10 .
at this moment i am ridding a 34t wolf chainring 11-42(shimano xt cassete plus wolf tooth cog) and when this cams out(somebody know's the date?) will be my next transmission
  • + 0
 What we need is that oneup 44t ring for the xt cassette then you can run the larger chain ring to make up for the 9% loss.
  • - 4
flag cool3 (Apr 15, 2015 at 13:03) (Below Threshold)
 I've been riding 32-11 for many years now and never felt the need for a bigger gear.
  • + 5
 ours still go to eleven.....
  • + 4
 @Primoz ... That may be the next step (2017?). I also remember that rule of thumb that when requiring less than 11t for a given diameter, you should reduce the diameter of the rollers of the chain (and chain pitch with it).

Only problem that I see with a smaller chain is that as the diameter of the pins are smaller, the chain will be weaker, more sensitive to contaminants and less sensitive to misalignment (depending on design). It may not be a big issue as there will be more teeth to spread the load, though.
  • + 4
 tiago 11/10 is 1,1. It's a 10 % difference. If you do not notice that, well... Sucks to be you.

Do you notice a difference between the 36 and 32 cogs on the top of your cassette? That's a difference of 12,5 %.

*or 9 % and 11,2 %, depending on the direction you compare the two cogs, as in which is the benchmark.

cool3 with a single ring in the front?
  • + 0
 Hello Cleveland
  • + 3
 @Primoz i didn't say i won't notice, i have ridden a lot of bikes with 1*11 but didn't try that too much
simply i think is not that much relevant , and i am good with my set up 34 t single ring and 11-42 on the back, beeing riding and racing this way for more than a year and nothing to complain, have a 32 t chaining new to use on a race if i think is needed but never was
  • + 3
 That small link is there to be removed for new style direct mount hangars. On a new frame it's much stiffer and stronger.
  • - 4
flag b26-4-Life (Apr 15, 2015 at 16:11) (Below Threshold)
 When 11spd chains become "durable", i'll put my foot in my mouth. Until then: please.
  • + 0
 Guys, just to clear things up, I was referring to the fact that a 10t is not necessary for many of us. I'm excited to see Shimano come out with this group. In fact, this cassette will surely be part of my next set up.
  • + 1
 @Primoz: no, I'm running a 2x9 at this time on my two main bikes (11-34/22-32) but with this new group, I plan on trying my first 1x11 set up.
  • - 9
flag sbrdude1 (Apr 15, 2015 at 21:04) (Below Threshold)
 If you need a 2x11 you need to train more. Get fit people! I'm 225lbs + gear and ride XO1 with a RF32.
  • + 1
 @cool3 With 1x11 (11-42) and 32T front ring you will lose exactly 1 gear compared to your 2x9 setup, that being 22/34.

If you'd go SRAM's 10-42 you could have 28T front and have about the same range as you have now.
  • + 2
 @fu33: yes, I know, but I don't care losing one gear. I plan on trying a 1x11 set up with XT 11-42 cassette/XTR shifter + Shadow+ derailleur and a NW 32t ring.
  • - 1
 Everyone that fusses about whether you need a 10T or an 11T on the lower end of the cassette and whether or not it is important to your overall riding should s*&t the f*&k up and go ride a real trail rather than b*&^h about not having a high enough gear to spin to the shops with.

No one cares that you spin out on your sh*&ty back woods fire trail or nature park cruiser trail. And certainly the mountain bike industry should not design parts for the 90% that work for the 10% of these choppers.

As the kind of person that proposes this stupidity is probably a Strava^%hole, why don't they look at their trail speeds after their rides and really ask themselves "was I pedalling to go faster at that point?".

When you are going more than 35 kmph (30T front and 10T rear = 35.8 kmph @ 90 rpm/ 30T front and 11T rear = 32.6 kmph @90 rpm) on a real trail on an all-mtn bike you are probably not pedalling at all and if you are it is not very often, probably just a short burst to carry momentum through a slight uphill section. DH bike different story but then they run different cassettes, different front chain ring sizes (eg 36T front to 11T rear = 39.1 kmph).

So you are talking about compromising the efficeincy of an entire drive train for the 0.5% that can actually use it on a trail (ie the real expert rider at elite level) or for some corner shop run punters!

Right this particular aspect of this discussion is so pointless and so boring that I have put myself into a coma. Punters; slap yourselves in a face with an old cassette (I don't care how many teeth or speeds it has), everyone else choose the front chainring size that works for your fitness, riding ability and local terrain and go outside and enjoy your ride.
  • + 1
 ours still go to eleven.....
  • + 2
 already done that mate, 11-42 with a 34 t , that's what i was saying that you may notice the 11t or 10t but is not that big off a difference to not buy some product and to answer your i do pedal at those speeds ridding down a trail,so for me would be frustrating running a 30 t chaining, but that's why every one runs what's best for them
  • + 4
 lol, amrskipro is all enraged that some riders want or need a higher gear than he thinks they should have. How's that anger working out for you?
  • + 3
 right?! as if hes arguing the range struggle isnt real. currently doing a new 1X setup on one of my bikes and i just cant decide if i want to go 30T or 32T ring. keep flip-flopping back and forth. if i had a 11sp sram setup itd be a no-brainer
  • + 1
 .......eleven.....
  • + 81
 Jesus. 22 up front, 42 out back! Buy a climbing harness and a rope!
  • + 12
 Almost but no cigar.

"An exciting addition for DEORE XT M8000 is a 1x11 specific 11-42T cassette "

So you can get 22 front / 40 rear, and likely 28 front / 42 rear in a 1x11.
  • + 1
 I'm running a 30t up front with my SRAM 10-42, with bad knees and big, steep climbs. I can't imagine running any lower than that up front.
  • + 5
 I feel like you would just run out of top end speed. I have a 1x9 11-34 cassette, and a 34 ring up front and I still max out fairly often, especially if I'm ever riding on a paved surface. I hope there are larger chain rings available.
  • + 6
 With 30-10 I can still hit over 30 MPH on some trails and once you get up to that speed, you're doing more pumping than pedaling anyway, at least on singletrack. My gearing seems to be a good compromise for where I live, but if I lived someplace flatter than Colorado, I'd probably run a 32 [maybe even a 34] up front. I don't ride my mountain bike on paved surfaces very often, so I see no need to base my gearing on paved roads (or even fire roads).
  • + 6
 @TheStig04 1x11 Crank offered in 30T, 32T, and 34T. Says it there in the article.
  • + 6
 I guess I could have read that part lol
  • + 11
 where I live, I run a 28t, 11-42 conversion, and it barely lugs my ass uphill. but, I also never spin out, as we don't have any fire road descents, and rarely have to ride pavement. cool to be able to optimize to make 1x work, but for me, I'll always optimize for the bottom end since its where I spend most of my time.
  • + 8
 BaeckerX1:

What is your strava name. I would like to verify these 30 mph speeds on single track.
  • + 19
 Probably AaronGwin87
  • + 11
 haha. verifying thru strava...
  • + 10
 That's not an outrageous claim. Stay off your brakes.
  • + 3
 Wolftooth makes aftermarket n/w rings for the new xtr so if this is the xtr bcd or 104 you should be covered on chainrings.
  • + 22
 "Jesus. 22 up front, 42 out back! Buy a climbing harness and a rope!"

no dude you don't get it, it's to pull people's jeeps bogged down in mud and removing fallen tree trunks from the trail
  • + 4
 @unrooted Mountain bikers use Strava?!

Seriously though, not a pissing contest. I have nothing to prove. I hit 26.65 MPH last night on a tight, rocky trail with lots of turns and switchbacks and only 600-ish feet of vert. 30 is very doable. I've hit 30 while ON my brakes on some of the Continental Divide steep descents.
  • + 1
 @TheStig04 That 30/10-42 is on a 27.5 FWIW. My 26" still has 2x10 with 24-38 up front and 11-36 in the back. I've made the switch to 1x11 surprisingly well on my new bike, despite the slightly harder gearing on the 30/42 than the 24/36, and the increase in wheel size, plus being an early season fat kid after being lazy all winter. It's pretty comparable, at least on the low end. There's definitely some top speed loss loosing that 38, but I make up for it by spinning faster, and keeping a more consistent speed through changing terrain because I have less shifting.
  • + 1
 @mayel - and what precisely is going to stop me from running 22/42?
  • + 6
 Your pride. Sike run whatever you want as long as you get out and ride!
  • + 1
 @uzurpator Your balance, for one. Razz That's ridiculously slow to move and stay upright on a trail. Your legs, for another. You'd have to be spinning insanely fast circles to equate that into any usable forward momentum. You'd be far better off walking at that point.
  • + 0
 30mph with a 30-10?

On a 29'er with a 2.2tire that would require a cadence of 116. Not impossible, but pretty high number.
  • + 11
 I love all the pinkbike maths going on here
  • + 15
 Uh, you know... gravity. It makes you go fast without pedaling.
  • + 1
 @BaeckerX1 Not really. I know for a fact that 21/38 ( on 26" wheels ) works just fine. My current trail bike has 21/36. In both cases on some long boring climbs I could use something lower.

Besides - 22/40 and 22/42 are not that much different TBH
  • - 5
flag aidanbrown559 (Apr 15, 2015 at 12:53) (Below Threshold)
 I am only 14 and ride a 32 up front on a 10-42
  • + 6
 @bonfire Seriously? I love armchair engineers. There's this thing called gravity. Are the trails flat where you live? When did I ever say pedaling on flatland? You don't have to pedal that fast. I easily hit 26-28 on almost every singletrack downhill. 30 on some trails, as I said above, is easily doable, but obviously doesn't happen on all trails. We definitely have some steep ones where I live though. The whole point I made was, once you get to a certain speed, you DON'T NEED to pedal, hence why I don't miss much riding a 30T chainring. /facepalm
  • + 0
 I run 22/32 up front and 10-42 in the back on a 29'er, and I use that low gear quite a bit. People always like to say that you just need to get stronger to ride a 1*11, but I actually think 1*11 is the weaker choice because when the going gets steep and tech, they are the ones walking not me.

(For the record a 22-40 would actually be slightly better but I want that 10t little cog on the other end)
  • + 2
 @preston67 That's some self-serving logic right there. Who ever said people have to walk with a 30/42? or 24/36? If you like that gear, that's awesome. Ride what you want, enjoy it. But more often than not something like a 22/42 doesn't offer you enough power and forward momentum to get over technical obstacles while climbing. When you need that quick burst of speed to get over a big rock, 22/42 doesn't offer much in the way of quick acceleration, regardless of how strong [or not] you are. That's why most awesome uphill technical riders I see out here climbing steep, rocky shit are in 2nd or 3rd gear at least, not in the granny. I can't imagine where a 22/42 would be all that useful where you wouldn't be forced to walk anyway (like hiking quarry fields at the top of a mountain range). At some point, when you're going .0001 MPH, you have to wonder what the point is...
  • + 4
 22-42 towing gear for bikepackers
  • + 2
 agree. that sounds way below even trials type gear inch ratios
  • + 37
 dear bike companies-please refrain from putting sram stuff on for next year eh? over priced under engineered. Shimano all the way. Welcome back.
  • + 6
 I think with GX/GX1, boost wheels, and Rockshox OEM, product managers are gonna have a tough time speccing Shimano...we'll see!
  • + 17
 sram's 11 speed casettes make an isane amount of sense, that said id rather see shimano brakes on a bike any day of the week
  • + 3
 The 11spd XT rear derailleur should be compatible with the sram 10-42 cassette for that extra 10% of range. But I'm so used to sram shifters now that I doubt I'll switch back. But if I did, it would be with the wider range, sram cassette. The jump from 11t to 10t is significant to the overall range. Too bad shimano wouldn't use the XD driver standard and get the extra top end.

Love my 3 sets of XT brakes. Sorry to see them add the texture bumps on the levers. I tried XTR with that setup and preferred the smooth feel of XT levers. It'll be interesting to see if they've made the servo wave's initial bite less aggressive. That seems to be the common complaint from reviewers who now prefer the sram guide. Doesn't bother me and I say no to DOT fluid. Shimano brakes and mineral oil for me...
  • + 4
 @alazamanza Yeah, I'm the same. I have absolutely no problem with SRAM shifting, or RS suspension... but I'd take a set of Zee or even SLX over almost anything else. You don't even need to go to Saint/XTR for me to prefer Shimano over pretty much anything else out there.
  • + 2
 for all the hate they are getting the range that you get from the cassettes is just ridiculous, having not only a larger tooth but a smaller on at the big end makes it more like having something close to a 50t cog at the top end to get you a similar final drive to stop you spinning out, the 10t is what really makes it, but means it would be impossible to fit on a standard hub, that said they do need to be cheaper and it is a pain having a special hub.

the mechs/shifters are so close between the two brands that they are more or less negligible, they are both damn good if youre above x7/ slx,
  • + 2
 i agree that the drivetrains between Sram and Shimano are comparable in quality. But when you have Avid and Truvativ building brakes and cranks for you, respectively, i think that's something to raise an eyebrow at.
  • + 3
 @hairy1976 I really hope so. Totally possible. Gotta wait for the price. This build on a low-tier carbon "C" Santa Cruz would put the bike industry cost structure back on track.
  • + 1
 wait till something goes wrong and you send it back for warranty. I used to think Sram was crap after my shifter broke. Here's the thing, it wasn't covered in the warranty but they replaced it anyway. Then I switched to a full Zee groupset, my brake was leaking and sent it back for warranty. It's been 5 months I still don't see it.
  • + 1
 Grennoxs have you bothered contacting them, or just bitching on this forum? Shimano is well know for customer service.

I bought a used Felt off of Ebay. When I got it the front bearings and race were toast. It had a Shimano wheelset. I called them told them about it and they had me send in the wheel to see if it could be repaired- they ended up sending another wheel back within a week of receiving mine.

They had no obligation too.
  • + 0
 Can we really put a 10-42 sram cassette with m8000 rear derailleur and shifter?! If yes, I imagine I'll have to use a Shimano chain and not the Sram one?! I was thinking about an XO1 cassette but depends if I change my wheels or not.... Thank you!
  • + 39
 XT/XTR brakes = the best.
  • + 3
 Couldn't agree more.
  • + 3
 Hope? Guide ultimate? They're good, but it's hard to say "Best" for sure.
  • + 6
 after owning the new xtr trail brakes i have concluded my saint brakes completely pointless, there is no need for more power than an xtr can give you and im not even running an 8 inch rotor
  • + 11
 just ordered some SLX brakes to replace my old Juicy Ultimates. Excited!
  • + 1
 MT8 is also great and lighter
  • + 11
 Not to mention they're so easy to use that even Hellen Keller can bleed them.
  • + 10
 I switched from avid to SLX, nothing short of awesome!
  • - 5
flag haallinson (Apr 15, 2015 at 9:48) (Below Threshold)
 Gunna have to throw in formula T1's into the mix here!
  • + 12
 can't complain. even the plain deores do a good job.
  • + 4
 Performance aside they're so easy to bleed!! Avids are a pain
  • + 3
 Note that the new avid brakes (guide) are a completely new design and are getting good reviews. Brand allegiance to either sram or shimano is pointless. Each new product from either company could be good or bad.
  • + 0
 formula are nice brakes, loads of power and light with a great lever feel but for a day to day biker they are impractical, they are difficult to bleed and there is next to no pad clearance that makes setting up without rubbing near enough impossible. and those little torq bolts on all the clamps are annoying as well the only problem i have with shimano is that servo wave adjuster is pointless, shimano just get rid you dont need it and it's not helping anyone
  • + 0
 Zee for DH all the way, for trail, have some trail 9s and they are pretty good, excellent feel and good power for the little bike.
  • + 4
 Why do we always have to call things, the best? Best for you, whatever for me. I ditched my XTs because I did not like the feel of small lever and looks were hideous. This looks better but lever is still crappy for my likes. Spider rotors get loose on pins after time. Also mine were leaking at the caliper, just like 2008 XTs. Had a chance to buy barely used XTRs for 100 bucks two days ago, whatever. Avids for me please. Each to their own.
  • + 9
 best combo is what graves does: xtr levers w/o servo on saint calipers.
  • + 2
 Went from Formula The Ones, utter poop (imagine the sound of the shrieking eels, and the lever feel of two pieces of wood clamping on cardboard), to Shimano XTR Trails w/ 180mm rotors for $150 used. Love these brakes! But Waki's 100% correct, to each their own. We don't all have to have the same taste. My brother uses Avids and loves em'.
  • + 1
 I must say I started to get used to my Formula R1/RX combo, I like the on/off feeling. But yea they are noisy as hell. I am super eager to try the Guides but that's at least one year of waiting, I am not paying for new brakes, I am too long in this hobby to pay this much, no way, I'll get some for 100-150 bucks next winter Big Grin
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns I too am curious about the Guides. Have heard many a fine comment regarding the performance of these by word of mouth, not just from editorial reviews. I'm with you, far too long into this hobby, (and spoiled for that matter, from having worked in the industry not paying retail for anything). Patience is a virtue! Smile
  • + 5
 Rode XT's last year and Guide RSC this year and I like the guide better. XT is still a solid brake
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns where the XTRs for $100? I'll take em
  • + 2
 @Nagrom77 I switched to Guide RSCs from XTs (not quite apples to apples, but still) and I prefer the former. An awesome modulation (rarely lock wheels now), not much harder to bleed than XTs. The only gripe I have so far is that reach adjust knobs can be hard to turn, but that's all.
  • + 1
 Been on the RSC for about 6 months now. I like the way the modulation feels, but I prefer the smaller levers and love how the XTR/Saints have dimples on the levers. And I think my XTR feels more powerful(perceived) than the Guide.
  • + 0
 hamncheez - it was on local classifieds for less than 4 hours, but I am checking them every hour Razz
  • + 1
 By "local" I'm guessing you don't mean "Western United States"
  • + 28
 I still think SRAM 1x11 smashes it, and I like that they have a 10t on the cassette so I loose a little less on the top end and am able to run a smaller chainring up front for these knee and lung crushing Colorado climbs. I've been riding SRAM X01 1x11 for awhile now and it's so smooooooth. You can shift under load or shift multiple gears with 1 throw and not even feel it. I even had to look down at my cassette the first time to make sure it had actually shifted. Despite needing a new hub, the new hub interface really is solid, and relegates chewed up freehubs to the past.
  • + 17
 I'm currently running Shimano XT brakes though. Best of both worlds, in my opinion.
  • + 4
 Yes, sram goes down to a 10 tooth. does sram have a special patent to be used with smaller hub bodies? I can't understand why Shimano comes out with this still only 11 tooth on cassette?
  • + 13
 I think the new XT cassette fits onto a 9/10speed hub body. . . which is why they still have the 11 tooth. So thankfully I won't have to buy a new rear hub/wheel if I "upgrade" from 10 to 11 speed.

I wish XT would just come out with a 11-42 10 speed cassette so I don't have to use the oneupcomponents 42t and get the big jump from 15-19.
  • + 10
 One massive advantage with Shimano is the price - the XTR cassette is cheaper than any SRAM 11 speed cassette, I'm guessing the XT will be much much cheaper (if you see a similar price hike with the XT as you saw with the XTR it should come in around £75 - about 60% cheaper than a SRAM) , plus no proprietary free hub to buy - I'll take the couple of hundred pound in my pocket and suffer the one extra tooth on the cassette.
  • + 2
 Agreed. I was surprised to read 11-42. I run a 30t chainring, 1x10 with a 42. This solution does not increase my range.
  • + 2
 @inter71. But a 32t will increase your range. At least high gear range. Went from 32 to 34 this year and didn't notice much change in low range cogs. The body adapts pretty quickly. I'd imagine it be more of a problem for someone already maxed out at a 34t chainring.
  • + 1
 There's no "range increase." Currently my low is 30x42, and my high is 30x11 in a 1x10 setup. Switching to a 32 chainring raises my low end. Not an option where I live.
  • + 6
 The XD driver isn't proprietary. It was purposefully released as open source -- anyone can produce it. That said, it would be shocking to see Shimano get on board and use it... about as surprising as seeing the drive shells on their XT hubs stand up to the torque that a 42 tooth will put on it.
  • + 3
 But you should consider that the new 1x11 XT group-set will cost at least 100$ less than (probbably) worse SRAM GX and will be around 300$ cheaper while having brakes included than SRAM's X1 or X01. It's definatly better value.
  • + 3
 MSRP maybe. I came across an entire SRAM XO1 groupset with Shimano XT brakes and rotors included, for less than $1100 online. While I wouldn't call that cheap, it's certainly not ultra expensive.
  • + 1
 @jmusuperman Shimano hubs use steel freehub bodies. They'll be fine. DT Swiss and others though... Frown
  • + 1
 superman is right, i've cracked a steel XT freehub and that's with an 11-32t cassette!
  • + 2
 @inter71 - You could get into better shape, that will increase your range. The body adapts and gets stronger. Hence the idea of training/working out. Not even two weeks later you would be doing all the same climbs.
  • + 2
 Nah, dude. I ride 4-6 days a week. It's not about my fitness. I choose a 30t chainring because I ride high cadence. All I'm saying is I'll stick with my 10 speed XT + e*thirteen until Shimano accommodates a 10-42 cassette.
  • + 2
 I've broken numerous XT freehubs. It's not a very reliable setup. Shimano does keep sending out new ones, though.
  • + 1
 Agreed, but the XT Shimano freehubs will most likely fail under the new XT cassettes too.
  • + 1
 @inter71 A bunch of people have reported no problems running a SRAM 10 - 42 with the new XTR. It's probably the setup I'll end up with(XT), as I care more about multi-release than a straight parallelogram derailleur.
  • + 1
 "as I care more about multi-release than a straight parallelogram derailleur."

Agreed. I'm sure in a few years I'll be there as well.
  • + 1
 It's simply that the more gears we get on bikes, the more often I need to move more than one in either direction. 11 speed makes it even more needed.
  • + 1
 This corporate war is about freehub body standards! And sram looks set to finally dethrone uniglide! ...And yes the current crop of XT hubs have had a surprisingly high failure rate.
  • + 1
 @groghunter I'm currently on a 1x with 11-36 and I'm pretty happy with the gear spacing (with a shimano xt multi shifter shifter). But more range with similar steps is a big improvement.
  • + 23
 When you're late to the dance, you'd better be with a knock out date. Looks like Shimano pulled it off.
  • + 14
 Shimano is incredible. No XX1 proprietary free hub body bullshit. truly better quality product for similar price ranges. trickled down technology that doesn't rely on the consumer to be the guinea pig (X7 groupo, Taperbore, Gen 1 RCT3), and still hands down the best brakes ever made for there price. amazing quality for entry level components, today's Deore incorporates the functions of a 4 year ago XTR. When I put together winter beaters or less expensive bikes, I always without question reach for shimano cause I know its going to work. its like compary a deore to an X7... the X7 is a joke. Have yet to make the switch on my older 10 speed, x9 clutch derailleur and shifter mainly because i like the feel. but your cassets, chains, brakes, cranks, road groups, i will buy up all day friggen long.
  • + 13
 Shimano is brilliant.
  • + 12
 Past the marketing fog they are blasting the comp again. Just mounted a few SLX brakes because they are just as awesome as their xt brothers and guess what. 90 euro's for a pair of brakes I mean…
  • + 13
 Soooooo happy to finally see some Shimano 11 speed components at a more "affordable" price point.
  • + 13
 "Finally a 3x11 drivetrain in my price range!"
-no one ever.
  • + 50
 When a company takes away options and forces new standards on the consumers = break out the pitchforks and bitch.

When a company offers options to consumers and allows you to choose from a variety of ways to configure your bike = break out the pitchforks and bitch.
  • - 6
flag aoneal (Apr 15, 2015 at 9:51) (Below Threshold)
 @moefosho Agree. In over 26 years of riding, I can honestly say I've never used/needed a large chainring on a mountain bike. 1x or 2x is norm, 3x is just silly so why offer it on a high end line like XT?
  • + 7
 More options=catering to more people.
  • + 2
 some euros still use triple. also xt isn't just used for mtb. some touring bikes use it and gravel bikes and custom stuff. but do agree triple for mtb is kinda silly now a days. i head with new xtr di2 11x3 it won't even let you shift into the small and small or else theres not enough chain wrap
  • + 0
 Haulin it in the big ring is where smiles are made, and makes everybody else disappear! For years, my goal was to ride as much as possible in the big ring, to the point that I could clear most of my local stuff in it. Satisfaction!
  • + 5
 You guys aren't the only riders in the world, you know. A lot of people can afford only one bike. They use these bikes on trail rides and 100 mile road rides as well when they feel like it. The 3x11 is still very much needed in other parts of the world and I welcome the ability to choose.
  • + 3
 well, we here in the 3rd world don't have vehicles like you there to drive your bikes to the trailhead... we have to pedal several kilometers, sometimes 50 or more, just to get to our local trails. it's good that Shimano still thinks of people who use 3x setups. like many say here, you caucasian folks aren't the only bike riders in the world.
  • + 2
 @aoneal My hardtail commuter is 3x10 XT. Most of my commute (mostly road but some dirt) doesn't need the big ring, but it does get used every day, and I'm grateful for it.
  • + 7
 Hope this makes the current XT components plummet in price as distributors liquidate the old inventory, so I can get some bargain basement deals on tried-and-true 10-speed stuff! You guys can guinea pig this 11-speed stuff.
  • + 8
 This is absolutely beautiful, but in all seriousness how much less expensive is this going to be than xtr, cause this definitely does not look cheap...
  • + 13
 XT is typically 1/2 the price of XTR
  • + 4
 I'd reckon the same price as the past XT's have been sold, maybe a little more.
  • + 2
 Or even less than 1/2 as a complete group (mostly in the cassette, crank, and brakes)... the cheaper cassette is the only thing I care about. I just went 11spd XTR and that was the only expensive piece and happens to be the only one that really wears out.
  • + 2
 And it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than the "cheaper" SRAM 11spd alternatives to XX1 like X01/X1.

GX may be cheaper (except for the cassette) but that stuff looks like junk. Doesn't even have shift ramps on the 42T cassette cog.
  • + 2
 80 GBP for the casette, 70 GBP for the derr, 40 GBP for the shifter. IDK why pinkbike didn't show the MRP's
  • + 1
 Just how much a whole XT set is sold there in the US? Here in the PH a whole XT set nears $500.
  • + 1
 XT 2x10 in Europe is 320 EUR.
  • + 3
 XTR 11 speed is around 50% more than the 10 speed currently - if you saw a similar price hike with XT (which would make sense as it would come in half the price of XTR 11) then you would be looking at £75 in the UK for the cassette - which is over £100 cheaper than the SRAM offerings.
  • + 1
 Sounds about right comparing here. Anywho, can't wait to hear first ride impressions.
  • + 2
 @Alias530 How did you manage to wear out a cassette with Ti cogs? Razz And yes Im aware there is a big aluminum one...
  • - 4
flag deeeight (Apr 15, 2015 at 10:12) (Below Threshold)
 Ti is softer than steel... its one of the reasons shimano uses it on the XTR/DuraAce cassettes... more frequent replacements.
  • + 3
 @Xyphota mine is fine for now but like @deeeight said, Ti wears faster than steel.

@deeeight you might be right but I'm maybe a little less cynical... I figured it was for weight reasons. Although SRAM somehow makes 100% steel cassettes lighter without Ti and Alu (top cog is alu... but for road bikes their cassettes are all-steel and still lighter).
  • + 1
 Here's the pricing in pounds. ~600 USD MRP for the whole grouppo but will probably run cheaper than that from retailers.
  • + 4
 Who would like to bet they changed the pull ratio JUST enough so that you can't run the fancy new 11 speed derailleur with a 10 speed shifter? Like SRAM did on the jump from 9sp to 10sp.
  • + 9
 A Shimano 10 speed shifter will work with the new 11 speed derailure. I got that info straight from Shimano. .
  • + 4
 That is good news! Instead of using the OneUp RADr cage with my 10sp 11-42 cassette I can just use a the new Shimano 11sp derailleur designed for 1x with the same cassette and shifter. Props to Shimano!
  • + 2
 wait, so the new XT rear mech has the same functionality as the RAD cage (and SRAM mechs) now?
  • + 0
 There are videos out there of people even using a new XTR rear derailure on the SRAM 11 speed cassette. . Must be pretty close...
  • + 1
 @lumpy873 In those videos the XTR der. is matched with XTR shifter. It shifts because the spacing is the same on the cassettes, and has little to do with the pull ratios of the derailleur.

EDIT: Just got back from shimano and they pull ratios are NOT the same. So they are incompatible. Somebody on @lumpy873's end is misinformed unfortunately. It would have been nice..
  • - 1
 how about a 10 spd RD with a 9 spd shifter on a 9 spd cassette?
  • + 3
 @loloTHUNDAH google is your friend, people have been doing it for years. you have to run sram shifter, shimano der, & add a spacer under the cable clamp on the der.
  • + 3
 @xyphota It took me a while to find this, and I guess my memory was off a little, but here it is... This was from a post on the Specialized SBCU Facebook page a while back..

Nick Murdick Hey Gang, I'm the instructor at Shimano TEC, We don't officially endorse the new XTR 11 speed derailleurs as being compatible with 10 speed systems because the cable pull ratio is slightly different and also because shifting slows up a bit when using it on an 11-36 cassette (you may not be able to back out the B tension screw far enough). When we're talking about a converted 10 speed 11-40/42 cassette, though, one of those problems goes away. An XTR 11 speed rear derailleur mated with a 10 speed Shimano MTB shifter will actually shift better on a converted 11-40/42 cassette than a full M980 10 speed XTR set up would.
November 14, 2014 at 9:52am

There was more to this, but PB wouldn't let me post it all...
  • + 0
 So you are saying they did change the pull ratio... Unprops to Shimano!

They probably changed from 1-to-1 to 1-to-1.05 or something minor like that. No technical benefit just enough to ensure non-backwards capability. When they went from 9 to 10 speed and changed the ratio from ~ 1-to-2 to 1-to-1 that actually made sense for better shifting. This change is just marketing.
  • + 2
 10 speed is 1:1.5 actually.
  • + 3
 Why the f*ck would you want to run the new derailleur but an old shifter? It costs more than the 10spd variant but provides no functionality.

At least get the 11spd cassette/shifter and try to get the 10spd derailleur to work if you're going to be a cheap ass and only buy some of the parts.
  • + 3
 I think what will be most-interesting how this trickles down to the next-generation of Shimano's entry-level Deore lineup (same castings/forgings, cheaper raw material). Historically, Shimano has been very competitive with entry-level OEM pricing (though, lately SRAM's 1x11 is absolutely crushing it), so I don't imagine $2,000 (retail) 1x11 aluminum enduro bikes are very far off.....
  • + 3
 Looks amazing, and I am totally a shimano drivetrain and brake fanboy when it comes to the performance...but it seems like too little, too late considering SRAM's current game plan. Now we'll just have to see what availability is going to be like. I predict it will be on wiggle.com before you can get it at your local shop or on an OEM spec bike. At least let's hope they fixed the leaking pistons on the brakes first. Can't wait to ride both back-to-back and see which I prefer performance-wise... I bet I'll still like Shimano better, but I am soooo F'ing tired of Shimano North America's bullcrap I kinda hope I'm wrong.
  • + 0
 Have to agree. My Saint brakes spent more time at Shimano than on my bike. After three times back, gave up and sold them.
  • + 1
 I was under the impression that it was Shimano Europe that was f*cking everything up, as they are the ones supplying to CRC and other european sites at dirt cheap. Could be wrong though.
  • + 1
 yes, shimano at online shops is really cheap, but i don't see what as to do with shimano north america, since they are different regions .
and crc does different prices for different regions, do you guy's pay taxes from what you buy there?
  • + 1
 Shimano NA has had inventory issues. Pricing is not competitive with Shimano europe, which you're right comes down to the Shimano mothership.
  • + 2
 Shimano brakes are awesome. The only thing I wish they had was an adjustable bite-point. It would also be sweet if they could make their servo-wave feature adjustable in someway by limiting the movement of the cam with a set screw, that would address some peoples issue of the brakes not have as much modulation. If they got those features down they would own the brake market completely.
  • + 6
 Are those brakes really much different from the m785?
  • - 1
 Evolution, not revolution. The levers look a lot like the XTR 988 Trails, while the calipers look much the same as last year.
  • + 4
 Shaved 10g from last iteration of xt brakes and got rid of the chrome. You can probably buy new XT levers for the feel of new XT brakes and spray paint the chrome to matte black for look.
  • + 2
 I don't see the point of all this math with tire sizes and front chainring sizes going on... just ride the bike bunch of complainers... i run a 34 on my front chainring and it hurts sometimes other times it feels great... i dont need to do algebra to decide that its not the right gear... ridiculous.
  • + 6
 I can't wait for all of the last gen XT deals!
  • + 5
 looks the same as the new xtr stuff. no wonder everyone is blowing out the older xt stuff online.
  • + 2
 Lots of it looks great. I would stay away from the hubs. Once bitten. I'm shy about Shimano's hubs. I would pick and choose if I was building a new bike. But I'm not. I'm going to ride my 4 X 26 inch bikes into the ground before I buy anything else. Hell that is the cost efficient method. With all these new standards eventually nothing will work with previous years offerings.
  • + 2
 Shimano is kicking butt, but I am surprised we still haven't seen them expand beyond drive train. Their biggest competitor is sram, and they are a top name in suspension as well. That of course means that mostly sram components end up on bikes fitted with RS forks stock and I feel like Shimano has been using that nimbleness to be fitted to bikes with fox components, but how long will that last if fox expands with RF into more components? I already think I have seen more fox equipped bikes rocking RF from the get go. All Fox has to do is produce a RF wide range cassette and buy up one of these little brakes and derailluer companies (box maybe?) to have their own drivetrain. Easton will of course make the wheels. I am surprised they haven't already actually since it would set them up to really go toe to toe with sram in all markets. If they had done this and released it this year it would have punched shimano in the eye. If the major component manufactures end up releasing full setups the way Sram does (brakes, shifters, suspension, bars, stems, seat posts, etc) then those who are left behind will make sad bedfellows. If manitou was the only suspension designer willing to go oem with shimano it would be a terrible blow to the company.
Ooo, what if Shimano bought xfusion?
  • + 3
 They do have the component company called PRO
  • + 3
 Hey! Easy on the Manitou!Frown The only real reason they could not be a partner is because Manitou is part of Hayes. Now, feel free to hate on Hayes! I think I like Manitou because they are like me, take a little longer, think a little different, but make some killer stuff!
  • + 3
 I want a mattoc (notwithstanding a name that means digger), but manitou is so seldom OEM that partnering with them would be quite the blue to the bottom line.
  • + 2
 So are they using the same spec crank for 1x 2x and 3x? If so that's pretty cool as it gives you lots of options, however going off previous XT iterations, the q-factor will be pretty wide. Another benefit of XT over SRAM- crank length options like 165mm for shorter riders!
  • + 5
 Trickle down to Deore... one can only hope so much. Also no pics for the rear mech?
  • + 3
 It'll trickle down for sure but I cant be more happier with that XTs are so cheap here in our country, full grouppo considered.
  • + 2
 Give it a couple of years and it'll be at Deore level Smile
  • + 3
 Was really planning to upgrade to a 1x10 shimano setup but seeing this made me happier that 1x11 is closer than I think. If SLX makes it this year too the whoop-dee-doo. Would a standard freehub work with this cassette?
  • + 2
 Yes, this runs on a standard freehub.
  • + 1
 Going on past form I'd expect 2 years till this is on deore. I can wait that long!
  • + 2
 upgrade your legs !!
  • + 2
 Agree it is about time. Puts a bit of dent in the future business plans/product lines for OneUp and Wolftooth etc., but I'm sure they saw it coming. I guess we'll see even bigger cogs like the 11spd 44 tooth just announced by OneUp.

Would like to know more about the Dynamic Chain Engagement (DCE) concept vs. the various narrow/wide chainrings.
  • + 3
 The DCE is a much taller and blockier tooth profile that shimano claims is just as or more effective than Narrow wide rings. whether or not this is true has yet to be seen Razz
  • + 1
 Good job Shimano, pros:
-Stainless steel 1x11 chainrings
-No proprietary freehub to deal with, good ol HG
-11-42T cassette offers good range, and importantly will be affordable. Hopefully weight is not beyond 380g

What are Oneup/Wolftooth gonna do now- Shimano is offering a better functioning, more reflined and cheaper cassette...
  • + 2
 I'd still like to see both companies release a left hand dropper post lever, though. or at least a standardized integrated dropper mount that dropper mfgs could build compatibility for.
  • + 5
 GX with XT cassette it is!
  • + 3
 ^this^
  • + 3
 Why? No 10t cog.
  • + 8
 I have no need for one, but that's just me. Also, with Shimano's cassette I don't have to get that XD driver.
  • + 1
 go up 2 teeth on the front if you want to go faster? @inter71
  • + 1
 I much prefer Shimano to SRAM and run an XT 1x10 system on my Remedy. 11-42 with a 32t ring. Gets me up 99% of hills and where I fail is likely due to fitness not the bike.

But am I the only one who is not excited by this....
It has no more range than my 1x10 system, no improved chain retention. There is no benefit whatsoever.....
At least SRAM has got the wider range, 10-40/42 rather than 11-40/42. This is quite a significant amount.

I'm seriously underwhelmed.
  • + 1
 Im running OneUp'd 1x10, using an SLX rd with RAD cage... Any thoughts on whether the RD will work with 11 speed shifter and cassette? I can't think why not really. If so when its time to replace my cassette and chain it might be a slightly cheaper way to make the shift to 11 speed at about £100. And then in time (and when finances allow) maybe bosh an XD driver and Sram GX cassette on for a proper frankenstein set up.
  • + 2
 Looks like most parts will be available in Europe starting in June (see the chart at the end - google translate for the rest of the article). www.mtb-news.de/news/2015/04/15/shimano-deore-xt-m8000-11-fach
  • + 1
 I am glad to see multi gear cranks continuing down the line but why do we need 11 cogs with 2 or 3 chainrings?

Is the average of the market so much older now that we need 26/42 low?

I am not enthused about the ever increasing light action... the light action is so light I find it's not reliably over coming the friction of the more common full housings on many bikes. Maybe its not the light action but I do find SRAM systems seem to be much better at this.

I wish Shimano would also give us the option of continuing to use fewer cogs than 11 with our multi gear cranks. I also long for tghe days we could choose our own cassette stacks because I find these "comfortable ratio changes of 13% average" too close. I have to double and tripple shift so like the DH rider's I'd like fewer cogs so I can get across the range faster.

What road weenie decided we need 1 and 2 tooth steps any way?
  • + 1
 Great stuff! Just kinda pissed that they did away with the 38/24 option on the 2x crankset. Can someone explain to me how reducing the range to 34/24 is better than 38/34? I sometimes push my highest gear (38-11) on some smooth prolonged downhill sections and even some flat sections.
  • + 2
 you can still use 10 speed cranks you know...
  • + 2
 Kind of annoying to have bought a new XTR 11spd group and the XT variant gets something I wanted (11-42 cassette) more at a cheaper price. Penalty for being an early adopter I guess.
  • + 4
 Not like you can't buy the cassette & slap it on, though.
  • + 2
 Well to be fair, willing to pay for XTR level components, should mean you get all the perks of the lower end stuff.
  • + 2
 Exactly... I just spent $200 on a cassette last month and now a month later there's an 11-42 option at half the cost.

We will see when this actually gets released. If it's not until next year then i don't care, but if it's released next month I'll be a little irritated.
  • + 4
 this group is probably 6-12mo out, nor reason to stress
  • + 1
 There could be some debate about when they'll release it(in a purely speculative sense, as we don't actually know anything, but speculating is what we're all here for, eh?) There's already prices for the British market floating around, we didn't see XTR prices until about august. Speaking of August, that's when the new SRAM kit comes out, & either beating, or at least meeting, that to market could be worth an awful lot of money to Shimano. It certainly would be to their advantage.
  • + 2
 @groghunter coming out with an 11spd competitor to SRAM sooner than 2 years late would have been worth a lot too! Haha
  • + 2
 true, but maybe they actually learned from that mistake. They certainly pivoted on the 11-40 issue pretty quickly here. Of course, on the other hand, XTR is barely in people's hands, if this is coming out in the next 6 months, that's gonna cannibalize some XTR sales.
  • + 4
 If XT more or less holds it's price point. I'm in.
  • + 2
 If SLX gets as light as last year's XT, i'm moving down
  • + 2
 80 GBP for the casette, 70 GBP for the derr, 40 GBP for the shifter. Compared to a conversion. the casette is much cheaper.

Compared to a total conversion to 1x10 wide range vs 1x11 XT, the 11 stuff is slightly pricier, but I would still go for it Big Grin

Can't wait for the 11 spd SLX Big Grin probably It's going to be announced next year on by the end of this year.
  • + 1
 I should add. When I finish off my 9 speed XT cassette. SO, next winter when CRC has it on for 40% off.. Nice thing with Shimano is apparently 10 and 11 speeds rear ders. are interchangeable. So you might get away with just a shifter, cassette and chain.
  • + 1
 the thing is, the nbiggeew derr has better chainwrap. so it's the biggest plus. And sub 100 eur casette. cheapest conversio is approx 100 eur and this you get nice evenly spaced casette for that money
  • + 3
 11-42 rather than 10-42 seems like a pretty decent trade-off for not having to run the XD driver. Nice.
  • + 0
 Other than price, is there anything bad about the XD driver?
  • + 3
 Having to get a whole new hub?
  • + 1
 @grgsmith - no problem on new bikes, find the build kit you like and go with it. XD does not represent an issue there. But for retrofitting, it's not just the XD driver, it's that many pre - existing hubs can't be made to fit it, so you're looking at a new hub.
  • + 1
 Fair enough - gotta love my DT240
  • + 4
 is there an estimated release date?
  • + 3
 If its similar to XTR last year, you will probably be able to get it off CRC next january, and from your LBS next March/april
  • + 2
 Yes great stuff, love my new XTR but that 12 month wait from date of release was very bad marketing.....
  • + 1
 The article on Singletrackworld said it'll start appearing in the shops around June.

They didn't say which year ;-)
  • + 2
 Is there a 1 x specific derailleur? A derailleur that works with multiple front rings does things that a 1 x specific one doesn't need to do.
  • + 2
 Like what? (I'm honestly curious)
  • + 3
 The 1 x specific derailleurs from sram have a different parallelogram angle and the offset top idler because they don't need to account for the chain growth of the two front rings and as such they can track the cassette better and be less affected by bumps as they don't move in the vertical direction as much.
  • + 5
 (Or so says the marketing)
  • + 0
 1 x can use a shorter cage.
  • + 3
 Cheap 11 speed AND they've removed the retarded chrome? Shut up and take my money!?
  • + 3
 Why all the hate for the chrome? Love my chrome XT's. Different strokes, I suppose...
  • + 2
 I dunno, just doesn't do it for me. When I bought my XT brakes the only negative for them was the chrome! They do look alright in the flesh to be fair.
  • + 2
 I find the sun reflecting off xt brakes distracting sometimes. Also, black is always better looking than chrome. I wish everything in the world was matte black.
  • + 2
 Cool, now stop selling in bulk to online retailers and increase the margin for LBS pricing and then you'll have a fighting chance against SRAM.
  • + 6
 Yea, cause increasing prices is a great way to increase marketshare.Facepalm
  • + 6
 I'm guessing you're unclear on how Shimano handles LBS pricing. Basically they lowered their MSRP but left the cost the same, essentially lowering margins. Also they stopped selling certain components to distributors, forcing shops to order direct from Shimano. IMO if you lower MSRP you should be lowering cost as well, so you don't fuck the little guys.
  • + 2
 Time for the lbs to change, not global commerce. The s-tec forums are brim-full of shop guys complaining to shimano NA about MAP and it changes nothing. Lbs owners and managers are asking for anti-competition measures and supports so they can keep pretending it's 1990, that they are rad businessmen, and the business model is sound. Simply incorrect .
  • + 3
 @Snfoilhat you sound like you go outside every once in a while. wi-five.
  • + 1
 @Snfoilhat - and how exactly do you propose that an LBS change in order to make a buck with regards to Shimano components? You seem to think you have all the answers. Time to put your money where your mouth is.
  • + 5
 They shouldn't make a buck off (big-ticket, aftermarket) shimano components. This has been discussed pretty exhaustively in bike retailer and other industry forums. No one 'deserves' to be profitable. The lbs can make great margins on many shimano wear items and soft goods, and can make a little margin on good service and bike sales w/ shimano's strong brand supporting the perceived value of completes. To ask for any more is just wishful thinking. Want to do high volume? Get some capital, a warehouse, a e-trailer infrastructure, and build a brand. Don't want to do that? Totally fine--but then you have to let go of high volume and everything that comes with it. You need to go boutique. You need to go niche. You need to actually be better than the 7 other shops in your city, at something. If you're worried about MAP, you're probably not the best. Find another business to be in. 'You' the shop, not you personally, seraph.
  • + 2
 di2 XT to be released in August?, I don't get all the 1x11/1x10 stuff, I've been using 1/9 since 2009, all this gears way to cool for me...
  • + 1
 My next upgrade, ok well my first upgrade to my Kona will be this group.....I just need to sell my car to get money to spend on bike parts is all. Sweet looking and great idea!
  • + 1
 Any thoughts on whether the XT cassette will work with SRAM 11 spd shifters and derailleurs? 11-42 vs 10-42 is no big deal to me, but being able to use existing free hubs is.
  • + 1
 Let me get this right,new cassette,rear mech,and shifter,or Praxis wide range cassette with existing x10 componants,or one up 42 and rad cage if you want the 42t cog option.
  • - 1
 And they are STILL missing the 2 cassette options people actually want. 11-42 10 speed and 10-42 11 speed. Shimano stuff works super well and nobody can fault them on that but they still aren't making a couple key parts people really really want to buy.
  • + 2
 11-42 10sp already exist, 11-42 11sp is better due to better spacing between cog ratio. So not really useful for shimano to provide 10sp 11-42
  • + 2
 Stainless steel chainrings, the most important of all necessities for the 1x10/11 option, well done Shimano.
  • - 1
 11 speed? wow. I thought ten was bad. Shimano, use it for a for a handful of times till it stops working, then buy another one. Wonder if Shimano likes the Monopoly board game. If your a bike mechanic for a shop, you will see newer parts come in already failed. Shimano wont help you. Buy a new one.
  • - 1
 Hmmm, seems like Shimano doesn't really find a recipe to takle SRAM on the 1x11 market. 11-42 just isn't enough range, and the SRAM derailleur and chain retention may be superior as well. What a shame, I love Shimano for all the innovation they've done in the past.
  • + 1
 Exactly. I don't see why people are so excited. They failed to make a 10-42 cassette which is what really matters. It might be nice to pair an XT shifter/derailleur with a sram cassette but still not that exciting.
  • + 5
 Actually, 11-42 will do fine for most people. And that way, you can use existing hubs/driver bodies.
  • + 2
 It's about time good ol' Shimano does themselves a favor. This groupo looks beautiful.
  • - 1
 Cool to see that they are finally making 11 speed, but it's worthless if it's not a narrow wide. You're gonna have to use a retention device. Judging by the pics, it doesn't look like narrow/wide. And there's no mention of it either! Narrow/wide is half the reason to going to 1x11 in the first place.
  • + 1
 Their "DYNAMIC CHAIN ENGAGEMENT (DCE)" chainring claims to do the same thing as a narrow/wide ring. I guess we'll soon see if it lives up to that promise!
  • + 3
 Looks like the cranks have the same proprietary bolt pattern as the XTR's?
  • + 1
 Yes looks like it, that's a good thing for us..aftermarket NW chainrings from ONE and Wolftooth are already available!
  • + 2
 thank god i held off from buying a new group, as this is just what i wanted.
  • + 3
 Sea otter this weekend. .... perfect timing?
  • + 3
 11-42T atleast... everything looks the same otherwise..
  • + 2
 So does this mean Shimano will admit the new XTR will work with a 42 cassette?
  • + 1
 They already have...
  • + 1
 The smart money says Free Stroke still does absolutely nothing and the "improvements" to the "servo wave" still don't feel as good as SRAM. Just sayin'...
  • + 2
 What I've been waiting for. My xt brakes are going back and I'm waiting for a set of these...
  • + 1
 FUGLY!!
All black is just wrong...it suit "acera" or "alivio" groupset... Shimano, use some geinder and give us back some silver "X" on that rear der....
  • + 3
 Why can't they make a wide range 1x10?
  • + 3
 Why would they? If you really want it, OneUp Components offer everything you need.
  • + 1
 Agreed mofosho. 11 speed means an even weaker chain. . .until we all have 150mm rear ends so they could space the hub body with cogs as wide as the old 8 speed cassettes. . .
  • + 1
 Just buy the Praxis cassette that's coming out. Why would shimano cannibalize their 11sp sales and increase their inventory by offering WR 10sp?
  • + 4
 Has anyone here even snapped a 11 speed chain? I feel like chains get worn out and replaced before they ever snap. As a bike shop mechanic I honestly see more bmx chains snapped then multi speed mtb chains.
  • + 2
 Chain strength has very little to do with width...
  • + 5
 11 spd chains are stronger. ..shorter pins, stronger chain
  • + 1
 Yeah @SeaJay that's what I thought I just wasn't sure. It makes sense though. I think the only thing in terms of durability is just cassette life.
  • + 2
 Yeahhh ok. I'll stick to 1*9 slx grade and use the extra bucks on something that'll make a difference. Like stickers.
  • + 1
 XT brakes in black will now be the #1 selling brake on the market. Followed closely by XT brakes in silver. Why because Johnny Cash was right.
  • + 2
 Nice come back shimano. I'm just waiting for a price now
  • + 0
 Does anybody else just scroll through comments looking for comments with the most likes and just read those to get the jist of what's going on!.
  • + 2
 I like the crank without the bolts showing.
  • + 1
 Glad I'm still on my 2x9 and was considering going to 1x10, but not now! Thanks Shimano!
  • + 1
 So who here has actually ridden the new Guides before hating on all SRAM brakes?
  • + 3
 Shimano all the way!
  • + 2
 How many people read comments this far down?
  • + 2
 3x11 huh? Could pretty much ride up Everest with that.
  • + 1
 Of course the brake reservoir comes in black now after i bought the ugly chrome one.
  • + 2
 I can't wait to ride my new 33 speed!
  • + 1
 For me this just means there is going to be some good deals on the old xt stuff.
  • + 0
 Why make cranks black - they look like crap almost strait away unless they are carbon. i wore through the coating on the new XTR 2015 cranks on its first ride lasting 1 hour!
  • + 0
 I was just saying this to my wife last evening: black cranks are a conspiracy by the crank manufacturers to get us to buy new cranks more often.

I bought silver XT cranks a couple of years ago and they still look decent from afar. My SRAM and XT black cranks look like crap.
  • + 2
 I've had black XT cranks for close to two years now, and they still don't have crank rub. I wear a size 13 shoe and ride close to 100km per week - perhaps you guys just ride with your feet too close the the crankarms?
  • + 1
 I hope the fixed/increased the range of adjastability on the free stroke adjustment.
  • + 1
 you know what that means... dirt cheap past years xt groupset.
  • + 0
 Bummer it's not a 11spd 10x42 but i would gladly run instead of a putting sram crap on my bike.
  • + 1
 33 speed? What the f**k! Shimano why are you such stubborn?
  • + 1
 3x9 > 2x10 > 1x11. Can't wait for 0x12. wait, what?
  • + 0
 I'd love this setup if it were available without the wheels/hubs and clipless pedals.
  • + 1
 Was about to get OneUP + Rad. These are great news for next season.
  • + 1
 The idiots! Smile They have forgotten the wheel in 26 "! Smile
  • + 1
 No narrow/wide and a new bolt pattern?
  • + 1
 Narrow/wide isn't needed, and not exactly new bolt pattern - aftermarket component companies already make chainrings that fit.

What else would you like to complain about?
  • + 1
 What about the chain? It's narrower than 10speed dynasys, isn't it?
  • - 3
 Was anyone actually asking for 3x11? Even 2x11 seems a bit much but at least it's still usable. At least I'm glad that shimano and sram finally got a clue about extended ranges at lower price points, and hopefully 1x11 will become a lot more affordable.
  • + 23
 Really? We're resorting to complaining when a company gives you a variety of options...none of which you're forced to buy?
  • - 11
flag matadorCE (Apr 15, 2015 at 10:11) (Below Threshold)
 I'm sorry Shimano employee, didn't meant to upset you!
  • + 4
 downhil really has a point though, i mean if higher end 3x got phased out there would be a few riders out there who would be pissed. Think about 26 inch wheels are being phased out, It is really upsetting people, and rightfully so. How could more options for consumers be a bad thing? I personally ride 1x, but i still think the option of purchasing a 3x system is good.
  • - 2
 I get that, but to make my point clear I wasn't complaining about 3x11 but rather commenting that it's very surprising that 3x11 would even be an option considering that 3x seems to be getting phased out faster than 26" wheels by both the manufacturers and riders alike. With all the gear overlap between 2x and 3x, 3x11 seems to be the answer to a question that no one asked.
  • + 1
 I'm honestly not sure that 3x10 makes sense, either. An awful lot of road bikers went to compact cranksets on 10.
  • + 1
 I don't really understand why it took so long to get 2x to catch on its really all you need. 3x is kind of unnecessary under most conditions.
  • - 1
 All looks sweet. One thing though is that they have totally missed the boat with 1x11. Sram had that sown up a year ago. It's a bit like closing the stable door etc etc.
  • + 1
 This is great but I'd also like to see an XT Di2 system
  • + 2
 soon my friend, soon....
  • + 1
 please shut up and take my money!
  • + 2
 wait...just give me the price list first Smile
  • + 2
 i-spec II wtf
  • + 1
 FINALLY!!
  • + 1
 its about time
  • + 1
 2016??? FFS
  • + 1
 umm, finally...
  • + 0
 Congratulations for all believers. Checkmate, SRAM.
  • + 1
 If you want to spec the Pike on your build as an OEM, you have a huge price incentive to run SRAM. They'll be just fine.
  • + 0
 true. the only thing left to do is for shimano to buy fox and problem solved.
  • + 1
 They'd be more likely to start a suspension division from the ground up, being such a big company, or buy somebody closer to home, like Suntour. & until the founders die, I don't think either FOX is for sale.
  • - 4
flag jrocksdh (Apr 15, 2015 at 10:37) (Below Threshold)
 Although, fox is back with that new 34 (perfect for the masses)
I wna 170 pike on my range c!
  • + 1
 for some reason I've been anticipating a deal like Shimano buying Suntour for some time. Maybe we will live to see it happen. Could be exciting stuff.
  • - 1
 Prepare to be down voted by clueless SRAM troll fanboys.
  • + 1
 when is it coming out?
  • + 1
 No Di2, unsurprisingly.
  • + 2
 1-2 years from now i guess.
  • + 1
 weight please.
  • + 1
 Their black!
  • + 29
 They're back!
  • + 12
 In black
  • + 5
 They are black
  • + 3
 Whose black?
  • + 5
 Shimano respawned after Easter.
  • + 4
 Thayre' blaque
  • + 6
 @SeaJay Props for correct grammar!
  • + 1
 There black
  • + 1
 Black is back?
  • + 2
 back in black
  • - 1
 Wow, its just like Sram but two years too late !
  • + 3
 2 years later maybe... I would say that the market is ready just yet for 1x setups. I either know people not converting to 1x because sram stuff used to be too expensive, or people who went ghetto 1x10 like I did. Cassette, rear deraillieur, trigger and you're good to go!
  • + 10
 Typical Japanese. ..dont rush, monitor and test competition, create/test a better product at lower cost. Fernando Alonso hopes that's partly true anyways!
  • + 3
 True, that's how they killed our motorcycle industry , fckers lol
  • + 2
 Aha! So it was the Japs fault we built shit motorbikes!
  • + 0
 2010 called
  • - 2
 Fuck this, where's SLX!
  • + 0
 Not on their european website! Seems it's been retired?!
  • - 2
 Dumb Centerlock...
  • - 2
 doesn't 3x11 defeat the whole purpose of 11 speed
  • + 0
 yes i believe it does tup ... although i will definetly be purchasing this 1x11 kit as soon as it comes out... minus the cranks Wink
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