First Ride: 2019 Canyon Neuron

Nov 27, 2018
by Daniel Sapp  



For 2019, Canyon have redesigned the Neuron, their 130mm travel trail bike. The updated Neuron, which will now be available in the US, has updated suspension workings and more modern geometry. It takes some major aesthetic cues from the Lux, Canyon's 100mm XC bike, and the Spectral, their more aggressive trail bike. The Neuron sits pretty squarely between the two as a versatile 130mm trail bike.

The medium, large, and XL Neurons roll on 29" wheels, while the small and XS bikes are designed around 27.5" wheels. There's a wide range of build options and there's also a women's specific build that has different touch points. The Neuron starts at $3,499 USD / 2,699 EUR and then the top end 9.0 Unlimited build sells for $6,999 USD.

Canyon Neuron Details

• Intended use: XC / trail
• Wheel size: 29" (Small and XS 27.5")
• Rear wheel travel: 130mm
• Boost 12x148
• Carbon frame
• Size: S through XL
• Weight: 12.4kg - (CF9.0 LTD)
• Price: $3,499 - $6,999 USD
• Available this spring
www.canyon.com


Canyon Neuron CF Presslaunch Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber
The 2019 Canyon Neuron CF 9.0 SL.


While Canyon is a newer name to the bike game in the United States when compared to the likes of Trek or Specialized, the direct-to-consumer German brand has a well established presence in Europe. Canyon have control over every aspect of the design and construction of their bikes, and are able to deliver their bikes at very competitive prices directly to riders by foregoing the once traditional bike shop sales model.

Back in the day, the Neuron was the Nerve. The Nerve had been reimagined a few times, as most bikes typically are, and was a mainstay in Canyon's line. It served much the same purpose as the modern Neuron does - an "all-rounder" that suits a variety of riders. As a capable 26" bike to start and then a 29er, the Nerve was apparently pretty successful until the advent of 27.5" wheels.

The Nerve, at this point, was essentially dead and needed a full update and re-branding. Bring on the Neuron.


The 2002 Nerve. We used to ride bikes like this?
The 2013 Nerve CF - the precursor to the Neuron.


Frame Details

Full carbon frame: Front to back, the Neuron is all carbon and that's the only way it comes.

IPU: Canyon's IPU (Impact Protection Unit) keeps the bars from over-rotating to the point where your controls could damage the top tube in the event of a crash, or if your bike inadvertently tips over onto the sidewalk while you're waiting in line for a cappuccino before your morning ride.

1x or 2x: There's a removable front derailleur mount that gives the option of running the Neuron as a 1x or 2x bike.

Canyon Neuron CF Presslaunch Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber
Chain retention - minimal and effective.
Canyon Neuron CF Presslaunch Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber
Fully internal, clean, and rattle free - at least in my experience.


Cable routing: The Neuron uses a bolt-on cable guide/guard to simply and neatly route cables on the downtube. It does double duty as added protection against rock strike and shuttle pad damage. It's replaceable if you break it for far less money than a new frame would cost.

Sealed and covered bearings: Bearings on the Neuron are sealed and covered as much as possible. The idea, according to Canyon, is to prevent debris from getting anywhere close to where it could do damage. Low maintenance seems to be an underlying theme in the design.

The bearings are asymmetrical on the main pivot with two on the drivetrain side and one on the non-drive side. In addition to the standard sealed bearings, there is an added additional seal next to the bearings themselves functioning as an outer shield. The shock extension also acts in this capacity, further protecting the bearings beneath it.
Canyon Neuron CF Presslaunch Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber
Cables for the remote rear shock are neatly hidden.


Canyon Neuron CF Presslaunch Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber
Bearings are either well hidden or have covers over top of them on the main pivots.
Canyon Neuron CF Presslaunch Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber
Canyon's "Quixle" thru axle system allows for tool-free wheel removal.


Frame Options / Build Kits

The Neuron is available in five different build options. All of the bikes have 130mm of travel front and back. The builds start at $3,499 USD for the CF 8.0 which has a SRAM GX Eagle drivetrain, Guide T brakes, Fox 34 Rythym fork, and aluminum DT wheels with a claimed weight of 29.1 lb (13.22 kg).

The Neuron CF 9.0 Unlimited get the top-of-the-line parts spec, complete with Shimano's new 12-speed XTR drivetrain, a Fox Factory 34 fork, and a DT Swiss carbon XMC 1200 wheelset. The Unlimited weighs a reported 26.7 lb (12.12 kg) and sells for $6,999 USD.

In addition to these builds, there are also two "women's specific builds" that feature the same geometry and frame but different contact points including narrower bars and a shorter stem. The women's specific build is available on the GX and X01 Eagle options.

For the 8.0 and 9.0 builds that feature aluminum wheels, Canyon have gone with two different rim widths. The front is 30mm while the back is 25. The logic behind this is that it saves weight and allows for a more appropriate tire profile.


Geometry / Kinematics

The Neuron, according to Canyon is designed to be balanced and "easy" to ride. To achieve this, they gave the bike fairly conservative geometry numbers. The headtube on the 27.5" wheeled XS and S frames is 67° and those bikes have 430mm chainstays. The M-XL bikes with 29" wheels have a 67.5° headtube and 440mm chainstays. The seattube angle is 74.5° on all bikes, which is a pretty conservative number compared to some other bikes we've seen as of late.

Canyon says they did a lot of testing in developing the bike and went with some slightly un-orthodox spec to get all of the bikes, in all sizes, to offer the same ride feel. The XS and S, even though they have 27.5" wheels, use the same 29" fork with 51mm of offset found on the larger frame sizes. The smaller bikes have 4mm less trail in order to create the same feel as the larger sized bikes. They also claim that for smaller riders, "a 27.5" wheel already feels like a 29er."

Taking all of this a little further, Canyon have also spec'd the XS and S bikes with a 740mm handlebar. Now, it's not difficult to draw the correlation between smaller riders with narrower shoulders needing a narrower bar however, Canyon say that there's more to it. In their testing and research they found that handlebar width coupled with the amount of trail a bike has was directly correlated to how the bike rides. Engineers and riders tested different bar widths on different frame sizes and with different fork offsets and even wheel sizes to come up with this conclusion.

According to Canyon, this is the same testing that led them to spec the XS and S bikes as a 27.5" wheeled only ride, coupled with a 29" fork. If you look at the geo chart, there's even a new column and number to make this more scientific. In making this number consistent across sizes the way they wanted, they say that the bike feels the same across frame sizes and works just as good for a shorter rider as a taller one. Whether this is the result of too much time in a lab and over-engineering, or if it actually has some tangibility on the trail is yet to be proven, but I suspect this isn't the last time we'll see this number in a geo chart.

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The suspension on the Neuron takes some inspiration from Canyon's Sender DH rig, but is scaled back to a "trail" application. There's a high amount of sensitivity built into all stages of the travel.

The first phase of travel is sensitive, the middle is designed to be supportive and then the end of the travel ramps up to prevent a harsh bottom out. The XS and S bikes have a 195x45mm shock and the M-XL bikes have a 210x50mm.

The smaller bikes have a different kinematic from the larger sized bikes. Canyon's engineers attribute this to the riders on smaller bikes generally being lighter than average and needing different tunes than riders on a larger bike, as well as the smaller bikes having a higher leverage ratio than the larger bikes. This puts a smaller and lighter rider more in the middle of the shock's range of settings, rather than at the extreme, allowing for more adjustability out of the box.



I had the opportunity to check out the new Neuron in western Portugal, where, in addition to speaking with the engineers and product team about what was new with the Neuron, I was able to get a good day of riding in on the bike.

In addition to climbing up paved roads through villages and spinning along on steep gravel paths in the forest, there was singletrack and chunky rock-laden descents over fire charred hillsides. From technical, rooty and rock to mellow and smooth, there was a little bit of everything. It definitely wasn't a bike park, and I'd say the riding we did was just good old fashioned mountain biking - the type of terrain the Neuron was designed Neuron for.

PC Mangler
Daniel Sapp
Location: Brevard, NC, USA
Age: 31
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 148 lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @d_sapp1


Canyon Neuron Presslaunch 2018 Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber

Climbing

In addition to sharing a very similar aesthetic to Canyon's new Lux cross-country race bike, the Neuron also behaves in quite the same manner as it moves through its suspension. As advertised, the bike is supportive and supple, although I did toggle the pedaling platform on the shock off and on at times. The need for it isn't huge, especially if you pedal circles more than squares, but when you've been going uphill for what seems like hours, you'll take what you can get as far as help goes, even if it's more mental than anything else.

The bike felt stable and confident in tight uphill corners, however, most of the climbing that we did was more on wide open terrain, so the real verdict on that will have to wait for when I have one back on familiar terrain for a longer period of time. Overall, while pointed uphill, the Neuron performed about as well as a 130mm bike should in the terrain I was in. Nothing stood out and really wowed me, but there was nothing that detracted from the experience either. It's a solid and capable climber.

One thing that's worth noting is that while there is a generous amount of standover on the Neuron, the seat mast is fairly tall. Tall enough that on a size medium, with the dropper post spec'd, the shortest seat height one can run is 70 cm. If you need a lower seat height than this, you can either use a shorter dropper post, or you'll want to size down, and that will put you on a 27.5" wheeled bike. This ties in with Canyon's philosophy of having all of the bikes ride the same, despite wheel size, however, a lot of people are accustomed to buying bikes based on wheel size. Whether Canyon's philosophy of bar width, trail, and those numbers adding up to a consistent ride can be validated as science or dismissed as snake oil, this is going to be a mental hurdle for some riders to get past.


Canyon Neuron Presslaunch 2018 Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber

Descending


When it comes to descending, the Neuron very noticeably carries over some traits from the Lux, and it feels closer to it than its other longer travel sibling, the Spectral. With 30% sag the suspension was supple and handled small bumps well, and didn't shy away from soaking up larger hits, although there are limits to how hard it can be pushed.

The Neuron has a very balanced, neutral feel. It's not super long or slack, and its performance place it smack dab in the middle of the trail category. To compare it to a bike that has been out for a bit now, the Neuron has a similar feel to Pivot's new Trail 429, and the numbers associated with both of the bikes back this up. The chainstays on the Neuron are a little more lengthy and while this seemed to help keep the bike pretty stable in higher speed technical terrain, I wasn't blown away by the bike's ability to corner. It did a decent job, but wasn't overly quick when it got tight.


Canyon Neuron Presslaunch 2018 Sintra Portugal Copyright Markus Greber


First Impressions

bigquotesThe new Neuron strikes me as a very capable all-around trail bike bike, one that's well suited for riders looking for a little more travel than a full-on XC race bike, but isn't overly long or slack.

If you want to use a German auto analogy, I'd liken it to the BMW X5 of mountain bikes. For someone that wants to get out and just go mountain biking, whatever that may be to them, and is most concerned with just getting in a good ride and having a good time. Whether it's shredding singletrack, pedaling fire roads, or even doing an overnighter laden with gear, the Neuron may just fit the bill.
Daniel Sapp








264 Comments

  • + 219
 "I'd liken it to the BMW X5" - so no good on the street, no good in the rough, takes up way too much money and space for what it is?
  • + 96
 and very heavy. poor analogy.
  • + 4
 Agreed!
  • + 19
 @Archimonde:

"Sticks and stones man, why don't you just kick me in the nuts, no need to be that cruel." - Canyon Designer, probably
  • - 5
flag dhdev (Nov 27, 2018 at 3:49) (Below Threshold)
 Also no good off-road...
  • + 45
 ...also usually not driven by the friendliest and most easygoing people.
  • + 25
 Three types of folk drive X5’s.
Mums
Police patrol cars
Drug dealers
  • + 4
 And why does everyone feel the need to get an X5 number plate? Is it some stupid thing the dealers offer as an extra? I hardly missed the f*cking thing hogging the road.
  • - 50
flag ka81 (Nov 27, 2018 at 5:10) (Below Threshold)
 No money for a good car, little boys?
  • + 39
 @ka81: 90% of owners dont have the money for their X5... So they lease it mate.
  • + 17
 @ka81: However you may define “good car” the X5 doesn’t qualify. Unless your definition of good for some reason comprises words like “heavy”, “ugly”, or “slow”...
  • + 15
 @ka81: it's just that we haven't broken a hip lately so we don't need a X5 to drive the 500m to the store that sells pants that cover our nipples.
  • + 25
 It doesn’t matter if it’s X5 or X6 or Cayenne or Q7, all modern SUVs suck ass. No gain in comfort, safety or luggage capacity over a wagon of according class. Slower, heavier and taller. Last year the latest Volvo XC60 has been voted the best SUV in Geneve, I drove the T8 version. It is laughable. Zero feedback, zero excitement, more fuel consumption. Lots of gadgets, some looks and strong engine. Car for wankers who think they can drive because they press accelerator and the car goes to 150 in hindsight. Few days later sat in A7 for the same money, million times better. My V70 is cooler to drive. It says a lot.
  • + 16
 @ka81: In what way is an x5 good? Educate me (BMW Technician btw)
  • + 10
 @gnarnaimo: work place car park oneupmanship. Only reason I can think of them being good. Even then it’s a stretch. But the mention of “money” and “little boys” makes it sound like that’s exactly what @ka81 is all about. You're a nobody if you haven’t got an overpriced shit on wheels parked across two spaces outside the office.
  • + 12
 @WAKIdesigns: While I don't disagree with you, we have a unique situation where I come from that justifies SUVs. We don't plow our roads in the winter and we get several freeze/thaw cycles which creates ice ruts in the streets. I've seen many exhaust systems break off vehicles with standard clearance, but SUVs seem to get you just high enough to avoid a problem. This is an irrelevant argument in most places but FWIW...
  • + 7
 @WAKIdesigns: it's not that I think that people who drive SUVs are bad people (some may be, don't know all of them) but I do hate SUVs with a burning passion, I think they are all that is wrong with the automotive industry, and indeed with mankind itself.
  • - 1
 @bwcyyc: Yes I can see where you are coming from. But I guess your SUVs differ from European ones in all possible ways. In Europe, like in the North of Sweden or in Alps where winter conditions can be hard too, a raised wagon like A6 Allroad or V90XC still make more sense. Chassis is raised just as in SUVs, tyres are just as big and the body is lower. Less fuel consumption. Volvo XC70 was possibly one of the best raised wagons, still provided feedback, the latest V90XC is just as plush bollocks as XC90 and steering is absolute sht, I have flashbacks of first steering assist systems in mid 90s that were not progressive and the steering wheel was almost as easy to turn on parking lot as on a highway. Subaru Outback comes to mind too but I haven't driven it. Surely more fun to ride than Forester.
  • - 2
 @wowbagger: I know a few people who own them and I used to drive them form time to time. We are good people outside of the car. It struck me how many times I parked one of them in a dicky way, got out saw my rear wheel on the spot next to mine and the thought came: pfff whatever, I don't give a damn. I am sad to admit that on one occasion or two I actually left it parked like this... they really seem to activate the dickhead gene
  • + 3
 I don't know how good or poorly an X5 performs, but I'm not exactly inspired by it. To me it's just a "meh" car that doesn't really stand out in any way. I get why people would buy it, but at the same time I don't know why anyone would pick it over any other car out there. Pretty much interchangeable with any other SUV.

So if that's what the writer was going for in his description here -- it's a mountain bike, it's got two wheels and 130mm of travel, it works if you like it, but if not, there are dozens of others to choose from -- then mission accomplished.
  • - 8
flag sevensixtwo (Nov 27, 2018 at 7:52) (Below Threshold)
 My Q7 is tighter than a nun’s a*shole. Plush, fast, great in snow, and clean design. Q7s are also modded out and raced in the desert. BMW X5 are pretty tight as well. @sapp, great article.
  • + 4
 I'm no fan of SUVs, but even if I don't share it, I totally get why people buy them.
They are comfortable and they are for they who don't give a shit about driving itself (other than the ocasional throtle slam in a straight line to feel all that power they paid for), but who like the elevated view from a big car and the sense of unvulnerability that comes with it.

And don't forget one major thing, people don't buy transportation, people buy status, cars are just dicks on wheels Wink
  • + 9
 @bwcyyc: An x5 would be a poor choice in that case. With only 208 mm ground clearance (only 20mm more than a toyota corolla) and alot of fragile plastics and electronics on the underside. The e70 generation with its electronic ebrake motor mounted to the back of the rear subframe which is susceptible to water damage and the diesels DEF injector mounted at the very bottom of the down pipe which sets all types of lovely fault codes when it freezes. A real SUV (eg. a 4runner with 244mm ground clearance and a proper truck chassis with its minimalist undercarriage) maybe would make more sense.
  • - 3
 @sevensixtwo: Q7 - tight? Compared to what? A6 Allroad anytime, anywhere. If no offroad/snow is concerned A6 Avant quattro, possibly best wagon ever made and the latest one is pure sex.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns:Also waki remember all the people who want to sit higher, have better visibility and in more upright position...
  • + 3
 @KeksiRoni: better visibility, you mean you want to see above normal cars of people who somehow never felt that need. How often do you change your windshield wipers BTW and the windshield itself? Then seat upright? So your back hurts you even more after a long trip? Oooh you have massage in the seat? Come on... in most cases it's about having a BIG car, marketers in car industry admit it shamelessly. Folks who engineered the trend in Europe based most of their effort on that.
  • + 9
 @wowbagger: the SUV bike equivalent would be a heavy steel DH frame with 100mm F/R travel but not poppy, a steep HA, and narrow road rims than can't take a hit with fat road tyres.
Does not pedal well, does not go down well, slow on pavement, no grip on dirt, might look hot, but completely useless unless you have money to waste and no use for a real mountain bike.
Obviously, saying that is gonna piss off the SUV owners...
  • + 3
 @Poulsbojohnny: I'm not too sure what you're referring to, but what I've been saying here so far in a nutshell:

- SUVs are as evil as they are useless, they are for people who are old and/or hate driving
- the X5 is an SUV
- people who drive SUVs are not necessarily evil, but I suspect some are or at least would like to be
- the comparison between the Neuron and the X5 could be a case of libel (and if not, it should be)
  • + 1
 @zede: ouch. also: yes. (a klumpert, wia ma bei uns sogn tat, fia die fisch)
  • + 1
 @wowbagger: LOL. IT was this text:

@ka81: it's just that we haven't broken a hip lately so we don't need a X5 to drive the 500m to the store that sells pants that cover our nipples.

As for evil and useless, look for my post on my Grand Cherokee. Great for commuting, great for road trips, great for hauling bikes to the trail, light duty off roading, etc. And not an X5
And I'm not evil. If I was, I'd be driving a Suburban. Now THATs a useless vehicle.
  • + 7
 @Poulsbojohnny: "great for commuting" > this is true only on your side of the ocean. It's big (=it's a pain to park), it consumes shit loads of gaz (=pollution + €€€), so in europe this means not great for commuting.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: The Q7 is the best 3rd row option Wink hehe. Yeah I have a whole bunch of kids.

X5 is pretty awesome. The 2019 especially.
  • + 0
 @wowbagger: The x5 is based on the f10 5 series platform, it is not an SUV. BMW even calls the SAV's (sport activity vehicle) because even they admit, they are anything but utilitarian.
  • - 1
 @sevensixtwo: if you have so many kids then it smells like a Multivan 2.5TDi with comfier seats package Smile
  • + 4
 @bwcyyc: i get by just fine in Calgary with my VW GTI and snow tires. I also drive out to the mountains almost every weekend in the winter, never had an issue. I used to have a lowered Audi A4 wagon with studded tires, that thing dominated in the snow, its only nemesis was speed bumps.
  • + 7
 @ka81: Dude... this is exactly what people are talking about and the exact type of comment they would expect from someone who drives an X5... shit, I'm not usually into stereotypes, and I know there has to some normal X5 owners out there, but your making hard for people to think otherwise. You should probably go and move your car out of that handicapped spot.
  • + 2
 @Poulsbojohnny: literally all of your points can be achieved with a hatchback or wagon, while using half as much fuel.
  • + 1
 @arrowheadrush: if you want to do any kind of fun car camping in albertas PLUZs, you almost have to have something taller than your average forester/allroad/lifted wagon. sure, you could access most areas and probably be fine, but say it rains and the OHV road gets sloppy and you need to find a different line, youre gonna have a bad time in a forester, and thats where a wrangler/4runner/even a range rover or grand cherokee would come in very handy. maybe not a q7/x5/gle, but i feel that suvs have their place
  • + 3
 I actually kind of respect BMW's marketing with the X5.

Most luxury-SUV marketing has some BS section where they show their $80,000 Audi or whatever fording a small rivulet, or driving up a dirt road to insinuate that you might do something similar to offroading in your new SUV.

Not BMW. I read through an X5 brochure a couple years back, and there wasn't a single scene of the thing off the pavement.

It was kind of refreshing. BMW was like, "Look, this is a very expensive, very comfortable SUV. And it'll do an awesome job of taking you and your family to dinner at a fancy restaurant. That's it."

I'm not really sure what that says about the Neuron, but it doesn't seem great.
  • + 4
 @jaycubzz: and what percentage of SUV drivers actually go camping in offroad areas? i would guess less than 1%.
  • + 3
 @ilovedust: if I saw a Police Patrol X5, I would instantly stop paying taxes because my government clearly has too much money!
  • + 5
 Love reading all the automotive comments from people who only know about cars from the internet. We get it, manual transmission wagons are awesome. SUV’s are lame. Itsna good change of pace from bike commentaries made by people who haven’t actually ridden bikes other than their own.
  • + 4
 @KeksiRoni: Yuk. I can see just fine from my GTI, while it gets better mpgs, handles/brakes better, and is generally a safer vehicle than SUVs. Why people want to drive around (usually solo) in huge living rooms, I'll never understand.
  • + 4
 @wowbagger:
"I think they (SUVs) are all that is wrong with the automotive industry, and indeed with mankind itself."
This is so true.
  • + 2
 I have no barometer for what a BMW X5 is.
  • + 0
 @arrowheadrush: no the question is "what percentage of offroad campers are SUV drivers?" and the answer is a large percentage. so again, as i said before, suvs have their place
  • + 5
 @jaycubzz: i never said they didn't have their place, of course they do. My point is that the majority of people who drive SUV's don't need them and a hatch or wagon would do just fine for commuting and driving to costco.

I have no problem with people who use their SUVs/pickups for their intended purpose, but that is a small minority. its the people daily driving their land yachts to their office job that drive me nuts.
  • - 8
flag wakiisapuddinghead (Nov 27, 2018 at 14:41) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: you really don't know what you are talking about when it comes to cars. In fact all you have said is absolutely incorrect. A wagon outdrive a good suv..lolololol o lolololol.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: you seen the Porsche Panamera wagon that's just come out? Important question is, how many bikes will it fit?! lol.
  • + 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: nobody buys Panamera to get lots of space in the trunk. If I could afford the latest Panamera GT Turbo 4s I would definitely not have bikes in it... they would be either on the roof or in the Multivan driven by my wife behind me.

@Keit: let me guess... you own an SUV... "everything you wrote is absolutely incorrect"... dude, forming those sentences, this state of mind, causing you to spew this V-neck pullover tight sphincter jargon is really bad for your errection trust me. Do you even care anymore anyways? Now please please tell me - do you own a SUV? I want to know
  • + 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: if i can fit 3 on the roof of my little GTI im sure a panamera could do 4 easily.
  • + 3
 Boy, that ESCALADEd quickly.. guess @danielsapp will think twice before comparing bikes with cars again Big Grin
  • + 1
 @arrowheadrush: saw a couple bikes on the roof of a Panamera owned by Mike Gillis back when he was GM of the Canucks... I think you probably could put 3 or 4 on there, but they'd be very awkward to get on and off.
  • + 4
 Maybe the best comparison would've been against a Subaru Impreza. It's not a Stadium Trophy Truck for smashing over everything, nor is it a a one-trick, rapid-as-funk go-kart. It's small, fun, can have a go at anything and is just right for going silly speeds through the woods. But hey, maybe I should wait until Autocar compare the new Evoque to a Specialized before making a judgement.
  • + 2
 @bwcyyc: Subarus have more axle to frame clearance than a standard pick up. If you add some stout SUV tires, they clear better than all of the new SUVs (I.e. excluding body on frame SUVs, only looking at the new stuff that can't be lifted whatsoever)
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I said 'lol' at the end lol. Guess you didn't see the Porsche promo pic they had of a couple loading/unloading their bikes from it lol.
  • + 1
 @trialsracer: there's that YouTube vid of a lifted Forester clearing a muddy boggy track that the Nissan Patrols and Toyota Landcruisers struggled badly with. The Forester literally just cruised over it.
  • - 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt That’s a LOL then, where can I find this promo pic? Smile

We drew new offices for warehouse for Porsche retailer in my town not so long ago, so I’ve been there to take measurements and saw the latest Panamera wagon, it didn’t look like too much space. It was long for sure but it was as narrow as a regular hatchback if not narrower. Those wide rear wheels take loads of space. Make no mistake though, Panamera GTS is on top of my dream car list with A6 avant quattro, eventually A7. Tesla S wouldn’t be too shabby either but Panamera mmmm...
  • + 1
 @gnarnaimo:

I have recently bought a used E70 4.8i X5. So far I dig it. I'm a BMW guy so when I had a kid earlier this year I had to trade in my coupe for something with more space. I wish we could get a 3-series or 5-series station wagon, but that's not an option in South Africa.

So why is an X5 good?

The V8 version is fast enough, but drinks worse than an alcoholic on payday.

The high ride height gives good visibility and is fine for the poor roads and rural roads we have. It isn't built for 4x4 action, but I'd rather be in an SUV or pickup on a gravel road than in a low-riding sedan.

The ride and handling is better than a pick-up (which is very common in South Africa). But because there are aso many big vehicles you also feel safer having a high-riding car if there's an accident.

The interior is great quality and feels pretty robust so far. The space inside is also pretty good. If I go to an MTB race I typically sleep in the back of the car.

I aint gonna stand up here and tell everyone to get an X5, but it isn't a bad option if you want an SUV.
  • + 1
 @Kaggel: i think most here don't really dislike the X5 itself (I'm sure that like most BMWs it's a well built piece of kit) but the SUV category as a whole. i could go on about how and why they are "bad" cars (or rather: bad traffic participants) but ultimately everybody's free to buy as they please and that's a good thing.
i am however very much of the opinion that SUVs should be taxed higher than other vehicles.

the real tragedy here is that your country doesn't get the BMW wagons.
  • + 1
 @ilovedust: 1 type: Bad drivers...
  • + 5
 @KeksiRoni: Screw you and your lofty driving position. You pricks make it impossible for anyone else to see on the road.
  • - 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I'am perfectly happy with my Q7, fits 7 passengers and can go to the snowy mountains around here. show me which station wagon can do this.
  • + 1
 @niib: I'd wager most of those with 4 driven wheels and many of those with 2 driven wheels Smile
  • + 2
 @gnarnaimo: @gnarnaimo: The X5 that my parents got had warped rotors right out of the factory and had unending electronics issues. Is all that stuff common in BMW's?
  • + 0
 @Kaggel: I'm sorry that was a rhetorical question, they are simply garbage quality vehicles. I hope for your sake the coolant cross over pipe doesn't start puking coolant inside the block of your engine.

@wowbagger: BMWs well built!? Lmao someone's been drinking the kool-aid

@gunner44: Brake rotors being warped straight away is not common, however constant electronic issues is par for the course with BMW.
  • + 2
 So funny! A car thread within a bike one...

If you’re going to pretend to get an SUV, get a real one. Toyota 4Runner stock took me to many real off-road locations.

Beamer are only good to drive on the left lane (in Canada) with a sense of entitlement. Lol!
  • + 2
 @gnarnaimo: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I've driven many but owned few and only old cars so I may be mistaken and a victim of marketing lingo. Then again, I've heard catastrophic stories about so many premium car makers, I don't know what to believe anymore.
  • + 1
 @wowbagger: Bimmers from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s (aside from n62/63 v8 equipped models) were quite good. It was all downhill from there unfortunately.

@sylvainvanier: Don't forget to never use your turn signal!
  • - 1
 @arrowheadrush: But where would I put my children in a hatch? No thanks. They are too small and there are 5 of us. Most of the time its 4, really, but that leaves zero room for anything other than a small bag in the back.

Oh, and my GC gets 19 city/25 highway. Not hatchback mileage, but not crap 10 or less like you get in a larger SUV. And ground clearance is something you won't get in a hatch.

It fits a purpose, fits our needs, and I like it. So there. Smile
  • + 2
 @Poulsbojohnny: flippin eck you’d be bankrupt after a month or two driving that here lol
  • + 1
 @Poulsbojohnny: "not hatchback mileage" is putting it very nicely, my big station wagon (which I am very sure would do all things your SUV does, minus the carpark bragging rights) gets very nearly 50mpg combined.

There are several reasons why people buy SUVs but I have yet to be shown a rational one.
  • - 2
 @wowbagger: try to put 7 people (not kid in your station wagon, and you know a reason. I am really not into big cars, but ended up buying one. yes, I could also buy a bus, but this is a different story.
  • + 2
 @niib: there are many cars that seat 7 that are not SUVs.

SUVs are jacks-of-no-trades and the only credible reason for buying one that I've ever heard is "because i WANT one"
  • - 1
 @niib: I guess most of us criticize the trend, not the car itself as completely useless for everyone, ever. I haven't seen a single SUV with 7 seats, while on the road, other than rental XC90 that I was driving myself when my parents came by and we needed 6 seats total to go to the beach. I will tell you more, I haven't seen one packed up to the roof. In an optimistic estimation, 99.9% of SUV owners in Europe want the car because they want a BIG car and because they can. There are no practical reasons for it, not even safety and car industry's explanation that "they actually don't roll over any easier than a wagon or a sedan" is denying basic laws of physics, no matter how advanced active suspension system you have. And I am not arguing Audi Q7 against Kia Ceed, nor Audi A6 vs Dacia Sandero (or some Seat Arona bullsht) in that respect, only for the sake of winning/losing an argument. I am arguing Q7 against A6, or Ceed against Sandero. Also, we were arguing SUVs in general and very few have 7 seat option which leaves us with Q7 against A6 quattro avant and that leaves us with... because I want one and fk everybody. Which leaves us with X5 in orginal question as a rather stupid car. For everybody, everywhere. Unless you live on Greenland and the only showroom in Nuuk would be BMW with the choice limited to X5 and M2.
  • + 1
 @atourgates: Haha I had a good laugh at that, cheers.

BMW must have different marketing tactics between our countries. Latest X5 ad has some 'dude' drifting one on a dirt road, coupled with flashbacks of him as a kid playing with his Tonka trucks in a sandpit while Blur's 'Song 2' plays in the background.
  • + 1
 @gnarnaimo:

German built BMW's > US built BMW's

South African built BMW's > US built BMW's
  • + 1
 good god is there a way to unsub from a comment thread lol
  • + 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: I don't care where they are built, they are all engineered to be disposable from the same place.
  • + 1
 @wowbagger:
@Poulsbojohnny: "not hatchback mileage" is putting it very nicely, my big station wagon (which I am very sure would do all things your SUV does, minus the carpark bragging rights) gets very nearly 50mpg combined.

There are several reasons why people buy SUVs but I have yet to be shown a rational one.

Well, if you want to go gas mileage, my Triumph gets 50 city and I drive it every day to work and back. Smile

Bragging rights. Meh. Maybe that's a thing where you live? I don't care about it. I just like the size and versatility of the layout. And 10 inches of ground clearance is probably not something you will find in most wagons. But there is more to it than clearance. You have to have suspension that is suited for rough terrain. Dampening rates need to be correct, shock size correct, spring or bar size, etc. Its no different than a mtn bike...
Sure a wagon might get there once or twice, but they aren't made to do it over and over and eventually something will break, possibly leaving you stranded.
  • + 2
 @gnarnaimo: Yep, big failing of modern car design - lack of Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).

They load new vehicles up with every bit of BS electronics and "Driver Aids" to try to give them a justified reason to then sell the vehicle at the ridiculous prices they do. Best cars are those that are well balanced, simple designs that are fun to drive. Also as a MTB rider, I would hate the thought of mounting my bike up on the roof of a SUV. I'm tall but it just seems a chore to wrestle the bike up on such a unnecessary high roofline.

XC Wagons - minus all the electronics crap inside, would be a much better fit or a simple hot hatch ))
  • + 3
 @Poulsbojohnny: Ah the good old days of my Dad taking us 5 kids tro school in the old Datsun Prince. "Hey Dad! Where do I put my knees??" Big Grin

Then there was the after school pickup in a VW Beetle. We almost used to hang out of the windows if we could get them open enough, especially when it was +30C

Now days it is, "oh we have a baby, must buy a Large SUV to carry it in." Meh!
  • + 0
 @gnarnaimo: Yeah nah. By your logic all cars are disposable and you just invalidated your own earlier comments/opinions.
  • + 1
 @iqbal-achieve: haha yeah there is, I think...
  • + 0
 @Kaggel: Well said. I want a Toyota Tacoma but sadly not available in New Zealand lol.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I randomly came across it, was kinda naff as it obvious the bikes weren't going to fit in the first place lol. Yeah those wheelwells take up serious space, might be able to fit a kids Strider bike. I saw a Panamera Turbo E-hybrid at the local Porsche dealership, NZD$419,000 (standard not including options lol). I wouldn't mind one myself though I'm still partial to the unpractical 911 haha.

Excellent choice on the Volvo V70 btw. Almost bought a 2010 T6 AWD (black with black leather), recently but dealer was asking too much and wouldn't budge on the price so I walked lol.
  • - 4
flag wakiisapuddinghead (Nov 29, 2018 at 0:33) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: used to. You know nothing of cars. Go play with a cat (pis)
  • + 2
 @Keit: enlighten me, present your credentials.
  • + 0
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: nah my V70 is a rather modest T4F, the engine is just on the edge of being too small when I drive on single lane road with family and car fully packed and someone drive 10km/h too slow and you want to pass them and there's lots of traffic coming from the other direction. Other than that it is fine. T6 would be an overkill for me, there is no way I would be able to utilize that power. I drove D5s a few times and they were spot on so I guess T5 would be great. The problem is... I wanted the MK3 and T5 just like D5s of this edition come only with atumatic gearbox. There are a couple of T6 with manuals but they are very rare. I wanted XC70, I really wanted one, but I just don't drive on snow and on crappy gravel roads, the tyres costs almost double, it eats more and in Sweden you can get only Diesels. I didn't want Diesel since Fun Police and environmental guilt is strong here, so you neever know when they will tax Diesels into oblivion or ban driving them into the town.
  • + 0
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: I drove the T8 XC60 and it is also ridiculously powerful car, because it is big, tall car giving zero feedback through ass and steering wheel so I see no point what so ever to get such a big engine. If we are talking A4, BMW 3,4 eventually V60, Subarus and what not in that size, then yeah you can have a go for the corners and accelerating out of them. I am actually checking around local Volvo pool if they maybe have the latest V60 in T6 so that I could try it. Funny how @Keit claims he knows so much about cars... would love to see his lap time from Nurburgring, Spa or Monza. Maybe he is one of the boys at Donnington or Silverstone. Martin Brundle - is that you?
  • - 1
 Umm sir you are talking to a BMW X5 M owner and I take offense my bmw is amazing on the streets
  • + 3
 @TylerPaquin: I'd be telling myself that too if I had dropped that kind of cash on that kind of car Big Grin
  • + 1
 I'm loving all the X5 hate...I used to also feel superior in my SUV despising autophile greatness. But I'm also an M3 driver with no friends, so what do I know?!

What I can say is that I love my 2018 (F15) X5 35i, far more than I thought I would. It's brilliant do take mounting biking. All hatches should have a split fold tail gate, including the wagon's European's are lucky enough to get. It's an instant mobile trailhead prep station and can carry a 4 bike hitch bike rack. Has 7 seats when needed the kids love. Is it slow? Not particularly. Is it necessary for real winters in Ottawa? No, but I've winter daily driven a 2011 E90 M3 Competition on 245 section Michelin Alpine winters and it's terrible. The X5 is just so much more pleasant to drive in the snow and ice.

Oh and it uses way less gas/petrol than the M3 - especially in the cold.

So reading the Pink Bike take - it makes sense to me, it isn't the choice to go as fast as you can, or or as gnarly terrain as possible, but you'll have a surprisingly good time no matter where you fancy going that day...
  • - 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I thought you didn't want to race. Remember you loose you shut up for life on any forum. We race now?
  • + 3
 @Keit: please, book a hotel in Gothenburg, come here and we can race. I am not wasting time and money to race with a dork and possibly a typical upper middle class c*nt, sorry. You may as well tell me who you are, where you work, then post a video of you riding and this discussion will be over. Forever. Also don't forget to post the pics of you working at one of Mclaren facilities and going sideways at 200ks at Donnington.
  • + 1
 @sevensixtwo:
"The Q7 is the best 3rd row option hehe. Yeah I have a whole bunch of kids.
X5 is pretty awesome. The 2019 especially."

oh come on, whom are you telling that?..
Wink

They keep talking about what they don't have so ...
It's just funny. )
  • + 1
 @islandforlife: funny..
Actualy I don't have a car currently. Sold my old X164 and now just carless.
So, keep trying to make up new points of view.
  • + 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: I've worked on BMW's for 12 years, on the side I've worked on various other brands.. You name it. BMW could easily be the worst modern car I've worked on, and that's saying alot. Yes all modern cars are getting worse, but BMWs seem to literally be engineered to fail.
  • + 1
 @gnarterrorist: I'm not really even talking about the driver aids. I'm talking piss poor quality $40k twin turbo v8s that if your lucky make it past a year before needing warranty replacement....and even if it doesn't the plastic ccv systems placed above the turbos will need replacement literally every time they are touched for the rest of the cars life. If the oil drain below the turbos start leaking (which they do, and they piss!), you are looking at a 12 hour job to access and replace the gasket.. And this is just one of the miserable engines BMW produces. None of these cars will be worth anything to anyone when the warranty expires and they will literally be garbage.
  • + 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: I also think you might have confused @gnarrterrorist comment with mine.. Our names are quite similar.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I have driven all of the cars you mentioned, extensively. You know nothing about cars. You are a negative and rude individual that receives little attention from the better half. And in you case she is clearly the better half. Question to you though. What do you think would happen if we were actually to meet in real life after all of your insults?
  • + 1
 @Keit: so you feel insulted. Hahah. Well it depends whether you can fight or not. Also you have not met my wife so well... WTF?! Judging from your tone I really do not want to meet you. I really do not like boring people who like boring cars. The fact that you have driven them means nothing, since I’ve done that too.

However the fact that you tell me that I know nothing about cars in the discussion about a fkng SUV means you are a total dweeb. Know about cars... that’s like mentioning knowing something about weight lifting in a discussion about kettlebell training. You set your standards incredibly low.

The fact alone that you can get insulted on the internet tells a lot about how smallest you are. The only way I could give you a pardon would be if you were some sort of state official, a job that tunes you into being “correct”, keeping a face. If not, your stiff upper lip must be so much in your way that I doubt you have excelles at anything.

Please post a video of you riding, maybe a link to your FB profile if you have one, tell me how much you squat, give me some race result, anything and I can see who you are. I am an open book you can find me really easily anywhere. If you don’t though, I am forced to paint a picture and everytime You write something, this picture looks like a Joey with expensive bike, with average physique, average skills because hou have no time to ride properly, because you have to earn your upper middle class money, you are not intelligent enough to get the best bang for the training and practice buck. I assume your body fat is between 20 and 25%. I wouldn’t be surprised to find man boobs

What is stopping you really, why so anonymous with such big ego?
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Oct 19, 2017 at 3:41
WAKIdesigns says:

I like you, we are very similar, however just like me you fall short with your assumptions as soon as you elaborate them further. Data shortage. I just wanted to prove to you that you cannot hurt me more than I can hurt myself. Race me? Uneducated? Trumpian? Coward? Honestly? Do people actually get intimidated when you speak to them this way or you just haven't tried it in real life? You talk like a 16 year old looking for a fight. Do you know how many "discussions" like that I have had? What the hell do you think you're doing here? Trying to outsmart a fool in his own game? You can try to get on your high horse all you want. Many many tried, I am just typing sht online, I don't give a flying f*ck what people like you think of me, I am just entertaining myself. Maybe because I got more friends than enemies by putting a stick into an anthill... journos, engineers from bike companies, sales reps, mechanics and racers on WCup race. and I will care about you?

You took a wrong turn man.

Oh and no hard feelings... honestly, you're just another pissed off dude. I can understand that. Make this a better day for yourself and ignore me.
  • + 0
 @Keit: hahahaha you are a twat. I’d ride circles around you and you wife would like to fk me as soon as she’d see a picture of me naked.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: what is going on here ?
  • + 1
 @zede: nothing special. Some white knight is having a bad time fighting a troll?
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: you still know nothing about cars. The Ford equipped Volvos were absolute shit. And so on. PS my wife is Polish and thinks you are an embarrassment to yourself and I should stop provoking such a simple and vicious mind. Now go fester in your own...
  • + 0
 @Keit: you talked to your wife about this conversation... the fact that you are not embarrassed by your dull self can only be explained by the Dunning Kruger effect.
  • + 1
 Hahah, just got back from the shopping center. As I was freeing the spot a black Kia in front of me turned the blinker on as a sign to take my place. It was tight between cara wo I had to drive out in three takes. As I was completing the last one, a white Q7 appeared behind and stole the spot from the Kia. Didn’t he/she see the Kia? i doubt it. Effing brilliant
  • + 1
 @gnarnaimo: damn bro, I've owned a few BMW's (mostly older ones, newest was a 2002 E39 530i, bloody great car btw). But if that's becoming the case with them I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Though to be fair it is known within the BMW owners club here in NZ that US built ones are troublesome as opposed to say German built ones that I never had any problems with. What you currently driving?
  • + 1
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: all I can tell you is that a buddy of mine has a 520 wagon leased, and he won’t be buying it after the leasing period is over. The car was on warranty service twice. One thing with the overevving engine and one with rear window not closing, what a great solution since you have the hatch door.
  • + 1
 @wowbagger: Spot on!

I love the old joke;
"what's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?"
"With the porcupine, the prick is on the outside"

But ja, my heart yearns for a wagon...
  • + 1
 @gnarnaimo: So far I've been lucky with the BMWs I've owned through the years. But as I type this, my X5 is at the mechanic getting the electronic park brake fixed. I certainly feel like as complexity has increased, reliability has decreased.

In South Africa, you see so many E30 and E36 models running around...
  • + 1
 @Kaggel: get A6 Allroad, or if you don't need any offroad capability the A6 quattro wagon - best "practical" car that I have ever driven.
  • + 1
 Damn, y'all still talking about this?
  • + 49
 Come on, where's the new Strive?
  • + 7
 Getting stretched out for bigger wheels?
  • + 4
 @demo811: taking their sweet time about it. Must be bleeding sales to the competition at the moment.
  • + 1
 Recalled?
  • + 5
 @parapax: they have to finish selling the stock of old strive before to announce the new one. Sales start in january, people buy cheap strives, only to find out 2 weeks later that the new Strive superboost 14% more betterest and 11% faster than the older version is released
  • + 3
 @zede: what I don't get is why they didn't upgrade it last year? How wants to by a bike with non boost rear/boost front spacing in 2019? YT and Commencal is probably laughing all the way to the bank
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: ouch, I'm a strive owner and this hurt my feelings
  • + 43
 Anyone else here just to read the negative comments.
  • + 21
 I couldn’t scroll past the review fast enough.
  • + 53
 Just here for the car reviews.
  • + 2
 @KeithyB: I bet you have a white X5
  • + 2
 @zede: white A4s and Q5s S-Line is where douches dwell these days... not all of their owners are douches... but most of them... at least in Sweden. But... actually... most of people behave like douches when they get into their white premium European car... Audi, BMW, Volvo, doesn't matter. But the best are always the Mercedes in that Ti color... not to mention a white Mercedes GLC... Oh mhy ghawd... Der Grosse Doucher Fahrzeug!!! Get it in AMG version to receive The Iron Cross of ultimate douchery with oak leaves and swords. Suddenly that dude in 2005 M3 looks like an acceptable canditate for a boyfriend of your daughter.
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: It was more of a joke because of the emirate flag. You know, white SUVs everywhere
  • + 1
 @zede: oh that was a real compound joke. And I respect it. hahaha :d
  • + 1
 @KeithyB: yeah, welcome to pinkcar...
  • + 2
 I’m here for the new Capra
  • + 33
 I bought into the 160/150 craze too, loving the descending confidence that an "Enduro" bike gives me. Over time I've realized that even the enduros I do aren't the EWS-level gnar that these bikes are designed for, and at my ability/fitness level I need the fresh legs at the top more than I need the extra 20mm of travel to improve my speed on the way down. Went from an Evil Insurgent to a Yeti SB130 and I have to say I'm having a hard time trying to justify keeping the Insurgent.

This latest crop of mid-travel 29ers seems to hit the sweet spot for a LOT of riders, with plenty of options to lean more XC-ish or more AM.
  • + 59
 That kind of rational thinking won’t get you far on Pinkbike.
  • + 4
 I tend to agree, although I think that current long(ish) travel 29ers pedal so much better than those of even just two years ago, and that that efficiency increase just blurs the line between trail and enduro. The SB130 may only be 130 in the back, but with 150 up front and a 66* HTA, it's still pretty long and slack by the standards of anything before 2018.

I stepped up from a 130mm front/rear 27.5 to a Ripmo this year, and I really haven't noticed much of a drop in snappiness. The current crop of bikes with steeper STAs, longer reach, and slacker HTAs just really feel like a step change compared to previous years' bikes.
  • + 2
 @airdonut41: For sure. I used a 150mm/46 offset MRP Ribbon on my SB130 build so it's even a tiny bit slacker than the geo chart suggests at 65.25. I'm amazed by how well it handles the tight twisty stuff and techy climbs. And the 77-degree STA is really a noticeable plus on the climbs, especially for me at 6'2. And the descending performance really gives up very little to my Insurgent.
  • + 1
 @airdonut41: Own a Ripmo too and it pedals amazingly! I'll add, I think we get caught in the trap of thinking about travel too much. For me, the Neuron is just too steep. After dailying a Sentinel with a 64 HTA and now dailying the Ripmo at 66 I don't see any reason to ride a bike that is steeper than 66, even a 100mm XC machine.
  • + 1
 In your case, the Evil Insurgent is a stout bike and pretty heavy because of it. The SB130 is much lighter rig and more nimble. I'm guessing the Evil Insurgent is about 31 lbs and the SB130 about 27 lbs. 4 lbs is a lot of extra weight to pedal. Both the 160ish enduro rig and the 140ish 29er are both great. With new geos the enduro rigs are not much harder to pedal than the mid-travel 29ers if the weight is pretty much equal. However, they do ride totally different and built for different types of trails which is why they are both are so good.
  • + 1
 @tacklingdummy: weight is definitely a factor and I think your estimates are pretty close, but the Yeti definitely feels more nimble on the tight/slow stuff despite a slacker HTA. I don’t know if it’s just the STA or the big reach difference but there’s a nimbleness/responsiveness that feels like it’s coming from more than just weight.
  • + 2
 I don't know. I go back and forth with this topic and as some have mentioned, its more about "the bike" than it is the travel numbers. I think if people bought a beast of a bike that is heavy, slack and is not a firm pedaling platform like S Infinity, DW or VPP then you're spot on. However for things like the Ripmo, my 160/140 Pivot 5.5 and many other longish bikes the line is much less defined. I was actually surprised in the opposite direction as you. I have a Pivot Mach 429 Trail with 116/130 and also the 5.5. I find even on the less gnarly trails I'm enjoying this 140/160 66.5* bike more than the 429. However my 5.5 is 28lbs, if i had a 160mm bike that was 32lbs then I may end up where you did.
  • + 28
 To me BMW X5s are bought by people who have more money than sense, who rather than want an off-road capable vehicle are actually searching for something that's going to compensate for their poor driving skills, while simultaneously one upping their neighbors
  • + 9
 You don't see that many covered in mud curiously.
  • + 12
 @carlitouk: i thought i had, once, as it turned out it was vomit
  • - 1
 @carlitouk: Maybe if you own one you have money to take it to a car wash?
  • + 3
 They're not off-road vehicles in the spirit of a Jeep. They are suburbanite cars that can haul kids and groceries and are a little safer in the snow. You won't see them crawling the rocks of Moab. That was never their intended use.
  • + 3
 @TheR: Love my Grand Cherokee. Didn't buy it to rock crawl (it doesn't even have low range or lockers). But with full time 4WD, it is damned good in the rough. Took it on some pretty rough fire road climbs this summer to get to ride areas. No lift, not even AT tires. And no Canyon, er, BMW stigma. Oh, and it gets groceries too.
  • + 8
 My X1 gets me to trailheads on dirt roads just fine. Personally I'd love an X5M someday (realistically not going to happen) because I acknowledge that even as a mountain biker 99% of my driving is on roads and it would be fun to have a sports car that can handle light dirt/off-road duty without sustaining significant damage, and still haul the kids and groceries. The xDrive system is plenty good for what the vast majority of us need our cars to do.

The idea that mountain bikers "need" lifted pickups to make it to the trailhead is the flip side of this ridiculousness.
  • + 4
 @TheR: @TheR:
Please, please, please: do not repeat the marketing HORSE SHIT that an SUV is "a little safer in the snow".

Let me see...

higher center of gravity? Yes, and that is sooooooo goooood for automotive safety.
cushy suspension? Yes, along with body roll and brake dive.
extra weight? Yes, and that is NOT a good thing.
"special" tires? Yes, and that higher profile will not improve braking or cornering performance.

Looking out the office window, I see snow on the ground. And it will stay there until... APRIL. My daily commuter is a Lynskey (road salt will not destroy it) with winter Schwalbe spiked tires. Our family car is a Jaguar RWD sedan with Nokian winter tires. That is what safe looks like. It is every bit as good on snow or ice as the FWD VW it replaced. And much better than any SUV, particularly the ones running around on "all-season" tires.

When I used to live in a very rural area, I have a Land Rover Defender. NOT an SUV! It was great off road, but the only time it was "safer in the snow" was when the highways were closed by half a meter of drifting snow, so there were no SUVs spinning out of control.
  • + 0
 @Dangerous-Dan: Yup. Turns out that 4WD doesn't really help when all 4 are sliding... but we 'Muricans love our false senses of security!
  • + 3
 @Dangerous-Dan: Can't argue with that, man. Most people overlook the importance of a proper winter tire. I myself sport studded snow tires on a full 4WD (not all-wheel) for the winter so I can make my trips up to the ski areas, so you don't have to tell me. But I think if I had a choice of an average all-wheel drive vehicle with traction control and all that jazz to drive up in the mountain in, or your average Toyota Camry (or mid-sized sedan of your choice), I'm taking the former. Again -- this is your average vehicle, factory equipped with stock wheels and tires, which is what most people run. That's what I'm talking about.
  • + 3
 @DrPete: A good description I've read: It's 4 wheel go, not 4 wheel stop. For stopping on snow you need good tires.
  • + 4
 @DrPete: Uhhh 4x4 IS better than 2 wheel drive in the snow. Obviously if RWD has snow tires and the 4x4 has slicks, the RWD will be better, but on the same tires, 4x4 will win
  • + 1
 @rezrov: Or a nice thicc tree
  • + 0
 @onek5:
In a race, maybe. But driving on highways is not a race. All wheel drive gives better acceleration traction. Brakes? Cornering? It is just more weight. I believe we agree that tires are the overwhelming factor in winter driving performance.
I doubt that the AWD version of my Jag is a better handling car than my RWD. If I had thought it was, I would have gotten one.
@TheR:
A Camry??? Ouch! How about a good RWD sport sedan with traction control, ABS, and all the modern car toys?
  • + 1
 @Dangerous-Dan: That's just how people roll. They're either driving some SUV, Crossover, or sedan. Generally speaking. Personally, I'm good with my truck. I did have a Honda Civic that was serviceable in the snow with studded tires.
  • + 2
 @onek5: I recognize that 4WD is better to get going, but irrelevant when it comes to stopping.
  • + 1
 My brother actually owns a white X5. They got it so there wasn't so much bending down to insert/remove toddler and associated things. Downside - stupid thing doesn't even fit on their street, they have to park it at least a few hundred metres away!
  • + 20
 I'll take the next bike that is comparable to a Toyota Tacoma or Tundra.
  • + 17
 That'd be awesome. I could ride it for 5 years and sell it at 90% of its original value.
  • - 3
 That'd be a Jeffsy - I'll get my coat
  • + 1
 @funkendrenchman: on the point about value: in the US Canyons seem to hold their value well (guess since they just got here). I bought an Endurace for 2.1k shipped and sold it a year later with 1k miles on it for 1.8k shipped.
  • + 4
 @funkendrenchman: Here in Austria people have no clue about second hand mtb pricing, it's crazy.
You see people selling bikes that are 10 years old 26inch with bike 3x9 drivetrain, for 80% of the MSRP. I'll never understand that
  • + 1
 @zede: And are there people buying these?
  • + 3
 @TheJD: no, they stay online for months, if not years.
i scroll through stuff every now and again and there's a 2007 Specialized Enduro that's advertised for 2k and has been for ages - by now it's like meeting an old friend and i swear i'll be sad when it's gone someday.
  • + 3
 @wowbagger: then they’re not selling them at 80% of MSRP—they’re posting them at 80% MSRP. Big difference. Wink
  • + 1
 @DrPete: technically correct... the best kind of correct Big Grin
  • + 2
 Until they offer a proper diesel in the Tacoma, it will forever pail in comparison to the Hilux.
  • + 16
 The mess of all those cables at the front soon disappears into some very clean lines indeed. Canyon are seriously on point with their design. Nice.
  • - 6
flag chyu (Nov 27, 2018 at 3:14) (Below Threshold)
 Your frame will hit the wall directly this time instead having a small chance it touches the cable first.
  • + 7
 Yes. This seems to be an unpopular opinion here, but this is a nice looking bike. I'd have to see how it rides because the numbers don't always tell the whole story, but it looks killer.
  • + 3
 Agreed. This is probably the way to go. I have internal routing on my YT, but this gets the job done as well and provides frame protection while it is at it. Nicely done. Hopefully more bike manufacturers will follow suit.
  • + 2
 @Poulsbojohnny: Yeah, it's cool to see something different and innovative, at a minimum. Canyon seems to be good at this, even if some of their radical designs turn out to be mistakes (see: Grail).
  • + 1
 I still prefer the entry points at the head tube. Seems like that big slot would fill up with mud over time. I was really impressed with Yeti’s cable/hose management on the new SBs, for instance. Only place you see anything behind the head tube is a few cm of exposed hose/cable near the BB and right at the derailleur.
  • + 16
 Once again with the ridiculous seat tube lengths.
  • + 1
 So behind the times. They're closer to Cube than cutting edge. Weird bikes for Germans.
  • + 12
 If you want to use a German auto analogy, I'd liken it to the BMW X5 of mountain bikes. - marketing person was shot in the back of the head at dawn for allowing you to publish that conclusion.

BTW: that comaprition to X5 it's the best way for killing ANY bike reputation ;D
  • + 13
 What? No 62 Degree Head Angle? Unrideable!!!
  • + 11
 Don't forget 1500mm reach.
  • + 11
 at least "Military turd" was not it's inspiration for paint scheme like everyone else this year....it's got that going for it.
  • + 8
 Old timer geometry and maybe 70mm long stem, tall seat tube, short top tube? what the hell?
I know, a trail bike not tend to be super slack and low, but this is ridicilous.
Anyway it's a good looking bike, but the numbers are bad AF.
  • + 7
 "ridiculous" "bad AF" - what are you smoking? It has pretty much the same numbers as the rest in the 'sensible' category. Tall seat tube? @180cm I'm running 150mm dropper on my size L Commencal Meta which has 490mm seat tube compared to 480 on this Neuron... but for sure, you couldn't run 220mm on it so it's absolutely useless for the PB audience. Smile
  • - 1
 @bikeinbih: Ok, then go and buy it if it fits you.
I prefer the longer reach (433 way to short isn't it? it'd be way better at least 450), longer top tube, and a bit slacker head angle, not super slack. Just look at the first pic, of the driveside... looks like a 24" dirt bike hitten by a 4 tons truck
  • + 2
 @milan89ers: I won't buy it because I already have an Orbea Occam TR 29 with pretty much the same numbers (Occam 67,5HA 450mm reach in size L, Neuron 67,5/453, Stumpjumper ST 67,5/455)
It's an absolutely perfect companion to my Meta for less aggressive riding and long days in the saddle. That's what this bike is for and I don't see how slacker HA would make it better...
  • + 0
 @bikeinbih: Good, enjoy them.
By the way, if you think that a slacker HA make a bike better, you're pretty narrow-minded. The HA is just one brick in the wall, that builds up what we call handling.
  • + 2
 @milan89ers: Please enlighten me... Smile I was curious what makes this bike "ridiculous" and "bad AF" and not surprisingly you couldn't answer it.
I think you are missing the point of this bike. It's not an enduro replacement but a 'boring', capable good value short travel trail bike between the Lux and the Spectral and suits the needs of ~80% of the mountain bikers...
  • - 2
 @bikeinbih: Suit yourself i could just go ahead and let me be.
Just check some other brands trail bikes, like the new Giant Trance. A bit longer reach, a bit shorter seat tube. And on the complete spec, there's a more capable build with its 40mm stem etc.
Thats why this neuron is an old timer on geometry field and its nrs are bad AF.
  • + 1
 @milan89ers: It seems you really don't get it... at least compare bikes in the same category, the Neuron to the Anthem Advanced and the Spectral to the Trance.
  • + 1
 @milan89ers: @milan89ers: agreed. 473mm reach on XL, really? and what bout us 190cm tall? okay, looking elsewhere for 485+ for sure. Once you try longer reach theres no way back to ride baby sized geometry again....
  • + 0
 @S851: finally, somebody is understand my opinion. Yeah, for an xl size guy it is a nightmare to choose perfect sized bike, but this fact, to try longer reach is stand in every sizes
  • + 8
 Amazing looking bike once again. I really happy with my Spectral, but I might need to get one of these for local rides..
  • + 8
 Good looking neuron. It would be a shame for a rider to synapse it...
  • + 6
 The paint on the right side of the bike is far more creative.
  • + 1
 @jacksoneaker: the Knolly Endorphin is getting in the way of me processing that...
  • + 3
 I know people like a water bottle holder but I'd honestly prefer to have a medium with a sensible length seat tube, a full-length dropper and also have my feet be able to reach the pedals - really helps on the ups.
  • + 3
 What would be a sensible length for seat tube and dropper? It is 445mm on size M and you can run easily a 150mm dropper on if M is your size... @180cm I'm running a 150mm dropper on my size L bike with 490mm seat tube.
  • + 4
 So nice seeing a manufacturer not chase the lower, longer, slacker gravy train..... Just a good mountain bike - and with a threaded BB no less.
  • + 3
 Looking for input on a bike and the comments got me looking at the fine points of overpriced SUVs . . . . .thanks pinkbike looking for the next article on the X5 and the breakdown of the geo chart
  • + 5
 "the type of terrain the Neuron was designed Neuron for"
Pick a lane, Michael!
  • + 2
 Seattube angle 74,5 and this kind of frame construction - that means for us, long legs riders, like 70 or less on our seat height? They lost me with first picture!
And that should be (marathon) trail bike?
  • + 1
 Nice bike, should not offend anyone. With Canyon the sensible buy is IMHO usually the CF frame mid spec build (in this case the CF 9.0) - I like the DT swiss XM1501 wheel set, SLX brakes for value, but would have liked GX eagle over the XT transmission (interestingly the GX eagle is on the cheaper 8.0 build that on the other hand comes with lower spec wheels).
Am I the only one thinking this should have been 140 mm up front? Was hoping Canyon would come up with a higher spec cheaper alternatively to the Hightower, I guess I'll have to wait for the 2019 YT jeffsy....
  • + 1
 i've been blessed to have a job that i enjoy which pays well. i picked up an used cayenne s e-hybrid. hauls my 3 kids, snowboards, or bikes no problem. and i get 55-65mpg on average, about 1000 miles on a single tank. i don't offroad per se, but it handles dirt/gravel roads to get to mtb spots without issue. it's honestly, one of the best automobiles i've ever owned.
  • + 1
 You say rattle free bike like it's something of a miracle. With the price point of modern-day sleds every single one of them should be silent through the woods. Manufacturers all truly slack in this area. Shame on you industry for your lazy engineers and simple cable restraint and rub fixes that you continually ignore.
  • + 1
 Back in the day, my senior student was a Retired USMC Gunny who loved the utility of a full sized U.S. made stay-wag. He continued to collect station wagons right up to his death. Aside from the freeboard, I don't see much distinction from more modern SUV's and minivans, except for the radical hike in prices, of course.
  • + 1
 Do you remeber that Italian boutique brand which has something similiar to that Canyon's IPU (Impact Protection Unit)? Practiaclly everybody in the comment section laughted their ears off and now not even one word? Goddam world is getting stupider by the hour.
  • + 3
 For those wondering, those trails are in Sintra, just a few minutes north of Lisbon.
  • + 3
 Another reason to want to live in Lisbon!
  • + 1
 Interesting that they have released an updated Neuron in Europe with an aluminium frame and the old suspension layout. Will be interested to see if we get a Neuron CF that looks completely different to the AL model.
  • + 2
 Neuron CF is already on the canyon page (at least the cs-sk localized one). So yeah, New design CF and non redesigned AL for 2019.
  • + 1
 @Ferisko: Yupp, only Canyon being slower to update the home page than PB to publish the review. Seems that they will go with the old design on the AL bike and the new one on the CF.
  • + 3
 What Patagonia jacket is Daniel wearing? Anyone know?
  • + 2
 The Dirt Roamer.
  • + 1
 That @danielsapp always looking fly AF on the trail.
  • + 2
 I like the not-too-slack head angle, the low direct mount front derailleur, and the paint job.
  • + 1
 Everyone should just have a GTI. Fun, fast, practical, comfortable, fits a lot of bikes. Everything in the world is a Golf or a Polo according to Mr. Jeremy Clarkson.
  • + 3
 To get back on topic, @danielsapp what shades are those?
  • + 2
 They're the POC DO Half Blade. One of my go-to's.
  • + 0
 People should Google images of X5's people have jacked up, cut roofs off, modded into 4x4 pick-ups, turned into actual off-road capable zombie apocalypse mobiles. Some laughable, some impressive.
  • + 1
 Looks nice, but I'd rather a Lux. It would have been cool if maybe they did 110 travel in the rear and kept the 29" wheel size for the size small frames.
  • + 1
 How tall are you ? The Lux is a bit too steep and too XCish for my taste, but they still size a bit small compared to the current trends. I wish canyon was making someting between the neuron and the lux
  • + 1
 If Canyon had one more neuron, would it be in aluminium just to avoid wasting considerable amounts of money in crappy carbon fancies?
  • + 3
 When will companies get the seat tube and seat angles right???
  • + 3
 Not a fan of the external cable routing/guard, looks kind of janky.
  • - 1
 Why are people bothered so much about what other people drive. Who cares live your life and stop judging others according to your pre conceived notions. And trust waki to beadding fuel to the fire. He seems to know everything about everything.
  • + 1
 You obviously don't drive, or drive in a BMW free zone. Big Grin
  • + 6
 because millions of people commuting by themselves 2 hours per day in gas guzzling 7 seater SUV's on paved roads is unnecessary as fuck and is negatively impacting the entire planet.
  • + 0
 @arrowheadrush: right and your bike being made did not? That's a weak argument.
  • + 0
 Canyon designers throwing it back to 2014. I like some of the designs Canyon does. Other times they leave you thinking about all the future unsold bikes in a warehouse that will eventually have to go on clearance.
  • - 1
 Can anyone explain the thinking behind narrow rear wheel width and wide front wheel width?
To me, a wide, cushioned, high rollover tyre matched to a 30mm rim on the back with a narrower, more precise 25mm rim on the front is a better combo.
The sqauarer profile at the back allows easier engagement of the cornering knobs and the rounder front tyre profile better suits the higher lean angles seen at this tyre??
  • + 12
 More grip on the front, less rolling resistance in the back. Grip on the rear is not as high a priority
  • + 1
 @gnarnaimo: true! Coz with the majority of the weight at the back, you're able to give the bike grip at the t the back.
  • + 1
 when one of the wheels breaks loose, that eventually is gonna happen, you want it to be the rear first
  • + 2
 available 2021 in the us, -_- not really but ive been waiting for their lux to be available all year.
  • + 2
 We don't need a new bike, just a daily dose on HO_HO_NH_OH will make your old bike new!
  • + 0
 Why the hell they think shorter riders want 27.5 wheels? Never interersted (and probably never will be) in Canyon bikes because of this.
  • + 1
 Somebody knows what bottle cage on this photo? ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb16589649/p5pb16589649.jpg
  • + 3
 Looks like a BMW X5.
  • + 1
 Based on this thread alone, I'm ordering an X5 tomorrow. BMW should be sending Pinkbike some guerilla marketing bonuses!
  • - 1
 Honestly is this what mountain biking has come to? Have we all become geometry sluts? Hate to break the news, but modern geometry alone will not make you a better rider, just get out on your bike and shred.
  • + 22
 it will
  • + 3
 I used to not think like that but after buying a newer bike with updated geometry, i cant help but say "why didnt they think of this before?". And now i go straight to the geo chart when they do bike reviews.
  • - 1
 @howsyourmom: NO ...NOT REALLY..but everybody thinks it will be .
  • + 0
 The X5 comparison is completely meaningless in the context of a bike review. I guess this is what one can expect from Pinkbike.
  • + 1
 Water Bottle Mount? Must be Pinkbike's favorite new bike. Because nobody rides with a hydration pack...
  • + 2
 Threaded BB is back
  • + 0
 Why couldn’t they have just made a 29 spectral? I hate to be negative but the geometry looks a little 2012ish.
  • + 1
 my good, x5 is just a car! people, get over it )
  • + 1
 Who cares!? It is next to impossible to get a bike from Canyon.
  • + 1
 Oh snap
  • + 1
 Cool color
  • + 1
 Any owner of X5 here?
  • + 1
 Looks like a Habit
  • + 0
 Looks like a budget sb130
  • - 1
 That´s not a BMW X5. more like X1. its meh.
  • + 2
 An x1 would be a better comparison. Much more fun and sporty to drive.. Even if it is a Mini Cooper Countryman in disguise.
  • + 1
 @gnarnaimo: I love my X1. Great MTB vehicle with a hitch-mounted rack, and cleans up nice for city/highway driving.
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