First Ride: The New EXT Era Fork is Very, Very Promising

Jul 30, 2020
by Mike Kazimer  
2021 EXT Era fork

EXT's Storia and Arma shocks have developed a legion of loyal fans in the mountain bike world, so it only made sense for the Italian company to take the next step and develop a fork to go along with them.

The Era is the result, an air-sprung fork (a coil version is in the works) that uses EXT's HS3 hybrid air spring. There are 140, 150, 160, and 170mm options, all for 29” wheels.

My 170mm test fork weighed in at 2270 grams, including the thru-axle. Not surprisingly, high-end Italian suspension isn't cheap - the Era retails for €1480.
EXT Era Details

• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
• Travel: 140, 150, 160, or 170mm
• Wheel size: 29"
• Stanchions: 36mm
• Offset: 44mm
• HS3 hybrid air spring system
• Adjustments: HSC, LSC, rebound, two positive air chambers
• Actual weight: 2270 grams (w/thru-axle)
• MSRP: €1480
• More info: extremeshox.com


2021 EXT Era fork


HS3 Air Spring

Inside the Era's left leg reside two positive air spring chambers, a negative chamber, and a small coil spring to make the fork even more supple. Because the coil spring has less friction to overcome than the air spring before it starts moving, it helps ensure that the initial portion of the fork's travel is very responsive. DT Swiss use a similar concept in their F535 One fork, although the damper and air spring designs of the two forks are very different.

The Era's positive chambers are filled via two Shrader valves on the top of the fork marked + and ++. Personally, I think that labeling them as A & B or 1 & 2 would have been a little less confusing, but maybe that's just me. The + chamber is the larger of the two, and is responsible for the amount of force required to compress the fork through its entire stroke.

As the fork compresses, once a certain pressure is reached the piston that separates the two chambers begins to move and the ++ chamber takes over, handling the mid-stroke support and amount of bottom out resistance.

Getting the fork set up requires inflating the higher pressure ++ chamber first, and then the + chamber. The pressure that's in the ++ chamber needs to be higher than what's in the + chamber in order for everything to work properly.

2021 EXT Era fork
A second positive air chamber makes it possible to adjust the amount of end stroke ramp up without the use of any volume spacers.
2021 EXT Era fork
High- and low-speed compression adjustments are found on the top of the right leg.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA


Damper

On the damper side, the Era has externally adjustable rebound and high- and low-speed compression damping. The exact number of clicks varies slightly due to assembly tolerances, but my test fork has a total of 12 clicks of LSC and 10 clicks of HSC.

The cartridge uses a spring-backed internal floating piston to handle the oil displacement that occurs during compression, and uses a piston that measures 22mm in diameter. EXT went with a larger piston diameter and a larger volume of oil in order to help maintain consistency on long, sustained runs.



2021 EXT Era fork
The crown extends further up the steerer tube than most forks currently on the market, a design that was chosen to increase stiffness and prevent creaking.


Chassis

EXT worked closely with Mojo Rising to develop a crown that met their stiffness goals. The result is manufactured from forged 7050 T6 aluminum and uses a shape that increases the amount of overlap between the crown and the steerer tube. More overlap should increase stiffness, as well as reduce the likelihood of the fork developing the dreaded 'creaky crown syndrome'.

The Era's bushing design and construction were originally created by EXT for use on World Rally Championship vehicles. They also developed their own oil, and worked with RacingBros to develop the fork's wiper seal.

The quest to create a supremely smooth operating fork didn't stop there, though; EXT also use a proprietary cartridge coating and a finishing process on the fork's steel chromed shafts to ensure there isn't any unwanted stiction.


Initial Impressions

I'm usually not one to gush, but after six solid rides on the Era I'm comfortable saying that I've never ridden a fork that felt this good right out of the box. I've even switched bikes with a couple of riding partners mid-ride so they could experience what I was feeling, and in both instances the general consensus was “that's ridiculous.”

Yes, the “air that feels like a coil” claim has been made multiple times before, but in this case EXT have come incredibly close to mimicking the ultra-sensitive, plush feel of a coil fork, with the ability to tune the end stroke ramp up to prevent harsh bottom outs.

I'm currently running 65 psi in the + chamber and 100 psi in the ++ chamber on the 170mm version, which is a little bit above what EXT recommends for my 160 lb weight. Conditions have been dry and fast lately – I could see dropping the main air chamber pressure for even more traction, but as it is there's been an impressive amount of grip.

It's the ease that the fork initiates its travel that really stands out. Even while climbing, the part of the ride where fork performance tends to take a backseat, the Era's ability to effortlessly smooth out chunkier sections of trail is noticeable. Tip the trail the other way and the Era truly shines – square-edged hits simply disappear, all without using up too much travel.

2021 EXT Era fork

It's a unique sensation, and it took me a little bit to get accustomed to the feel of the Era. At first I thought I might need to run less than the recommended 15-20% sag, since it didn't seem possible to have such a supple beginning stroke without bottoming out off the smallest drop or sitting too deep in the travel. It turns out that wasn't the case at all - there was ample support for pushing into corners and dealing with compressions, all while reserving enough travel for the really big hits.

So far I've only had one harsh bottom out, which happened when a huck-to-flat turned to a huck-to-uphill; in other words, not an unexpected result. Since then, I've added 5 psi to the ++ chamber and haven't had any more end-stroke incidents.

How long will the EXT's sublime smoothness last? Will that crown design keep creaking at bay? I'll be continuing to put time in on the Era over the coming months – look for a follow-up report once I rack up enough miles. As it is, the Era is a remarkable debut from the Italian suspension specialists.






Studio photos: Alex Luise


454 Comments

  • 188 6
 is this the beginning of the EXTinction of FOX and RockShox ?
  • 45 14
 I hope...
  • 87 2
 Not at that price. Maybe the end of it being lyrik and 36 swapping places as 'the best' every year through incremental upgrades.
  • 7 1
 Hope there's one day that intend can also join them. And... maybe it will be cheaper?
  • 14 9
 I think it's more the beginning of Formula's EXTinction.....
  • 38 2
 No- people still buy overpriced DHX2s and SLS springs for the price of a Storia V3...
  • 17 0
 @NotNamed: What about service? Is it more easy rebuild Storia v3 then Fox? In my location there are a lot Fox services.
  • 24 6
 Hopefully, no one in their right mind will pay 1600 euros for a fox 38 kashima instead of this.
IMO, the two options for high-end forks now are: the "budget" one, which is the Zeb and the really high-end one, which is this new EXT.
  • 19 1
 I’ve been riding the Storia shock for a while now, and I’ve been wondering already, how Fox and Rockshox can still survive in this market.
  • 4 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: Price is the same as a Fox38 (in Germany), no?
  • 3 0
 @JuliusZhuang: Good luck with that!!! Art only goes up in value my friend! Intend are some sweet forks.
  • 5 9
flag lkubica (Jul 30, 2020 at 2:41) (Below Threshold)
 @FuzzyL: Yeah, I have been riding a RS shock, previously a BOS, and this sock is mediocre at best. Don't know about Fox, but RS shocks suck.
  • 8 0
 @inked-up-metalhead:

In EU its a similar price to fox 38 factory
  • 3 0
 @q232: schnurr-tech.de Distributor and service center for Germany
  • 12 4
 @inked-up-metalhead: I stopped reading at 1480 groats. I'm sure it's lovely.
  • 3 0
 @denitopia: Marco at Schnurr-tech.de just fitted my Calling with a Storia 2 weeks ago. Cant recommend him enough! Absolute pleasure to work with
  • 3 0
 @q232: In Germany is a company called Schnurrtech, which is importing EXT parts, adjust them to your needs and service them as well. These guys are very fast.
  • 19 2
 If you-a think dis is dee end of a-RockShox and Fox, I-ah have astoria for-a you!
  • 7 4
 @lkubica: RS sucks for sure but for $80 you can Lufftkap it and it will suck a huge amount less.
  • 3 0
 @q232: there are no Service kits but the diatributors for Germany/ Austria are very nice and customer friendly people
  • 16 2
 At this price point it more fulfills the niche that ohlins failed to deliver on.
  • 4 1
 @DirtyRider13:

As long as a fox 38 kashima is the same money, I'm not quite sure what is the niche you're talking about. From a brand/image pov, maybe yeah; I'm still hoping to have other fork manufacturers join the party and ruin fox supremacy.
  • 3 0
 @eugenux: Yeah I just mean from the US context. 1500 euros is 1750 USD. Worse for Canadians. If I lived in Europe it would probably be a no-brainer (as long as you can service it yourself).
  • 7 0
 EXT maybe making an aftermarket damping cartridge for other forks.
  • 1 0
 Dawn of a new Era?
  • 2 0
 @pk71: Have you ridden a Selva R? They work great.
  • 11 0
 @Richt2000: @mtb-journal: that's not what I meant, yes fox makes forks that cost a similar amount, but they also go way, way cheaper, as do rockshox, so one fork beating them at the top isn't gonna make a dent in the scheme of things, I imagine rs sells 20 toras or recons (or whatever the f they're called now) for every lyrik or zeb sold. Everyones known for a long time the best performance comes from a custom set up from push or avalanche (or any other custom damper company), this is in effect that in a high end chassis, but to kill rs or fox you'd need this performance in a £350 fork that can be specced on 2-3k bikes.
  • 13 2
 @DirtyRider13: ouch! hoping MRP or DVO can make some headway there
or maybe Push will release a fork one day and all of pinkbike will orgasm at the same time
  • 1 0
 @q232:

Looking at the structure it should be easily tune and serviceable if tgey have chosen common tools dor those working steps
  • 17 0
 Easy solution: buy a Diaz Suspension Designs runt and throw it in your Fox or RS fork.

The pos/neg air chamber isn’t a gimmick. It really does make the fork feel that good.

I went with a Manitou Mezzer after selling my 36 with runt, and I couldn’t be happier. There are def other options out there
  • 1 0
 @q232: it´s no harder to ship it to service center in your country is it?
  • 1 1
 @opamp84: That'd definitely compress the market.
  • 6 0
 @onlyDH: +1 on the Runt. Never ridden an Mezzer. Hard to beat a Fox 36 Performance Grip 1 with a Runt and custom tune for less than the Factory 36.
  • 15 7
 @opamp84: Ridiculous . This site is a bubble for pro and super skilled sport riders . The average person that rides an Mtb wouldn't even notice if their fork deflected over a bump .
Rockshox and Fox forks will be around for a very long time .
  • 3 2
 @Sirios: hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
  • 6 1
 @Sirios:
If by average you mean beginners, then maybe, yeah. But any rider that has 3-4 years of trail riding behind him will feel diferences in how a fork performs.
  • 2 0
 @eugenux: Why exactly and where did you get the 1600 from? Whats wrong with the 38 exactly?
  • 2 0
 @pk71: yeah too bad to see as Formula looks to have some real interesting forks with the Selva and Nero. There’s supposed to be a shock in the works too.
  • 4 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: I do agree with your statement. Fox still has Marzocchi and Rythm forks to throw around in low cost builds. Rockshox come on, the OEM agreement they have to deliver low end forks in conjunction with their low end groupsets makes them a high profitable option for all brands.
In this market doesn't matter who's the best out there in terms of performance, but the best out there in terms of market share.
  • 1 0
 @DirtyRider13: yes the exchange for Canuck Bucks is silly right now. Alba is the EXT distributor and service up here
  • 5 1
 @Imabigboy82: typical fox tolerances and QC I would say.
  • 2 0
 @Imabigboy82:

I cannon prt screen it, but here's the link. It is basically, the same price allover EU.
www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/fox-racing-38-k-float-27.5-factory-180-grip-2-tapered-boost-981667
  • 2 0
 No they'll just copy the internals
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: it seems like the air spring gives they key benefits that the review was praising it for though...idk...
  • 3 0
 @eugenux: I think they’re more referring to the regular joe riding a MTB-shaped object.
  • 4 9
flag duzzi (Jul 30, 2020 at 9:35) (Below Threshold)
 Thanks the gods they do not have a 27.5! At that price, close to $1800 at current rates, I rather not have the option of buying this fork ... not to mention the usual gashing that appears on these pages: apparently the reviewer has never used a coil fork? Or a coil conversion? Put a PUSH ACS3 in any old air fork and you'll have the “that's ridiculous” moment ...
  • 34 2
 @duzzi, I've ridden plenty of coil forks and used the Push ACS3 conversion - at the moment, I'd say this feels even better.
  • 2 0
 @lake-st: Luftkappe was a game changer on my lyrik. Such a big improvement
  • 10 2
 Definitely not..Kashima-because it is prettier than any other fork will keep Fox at top forever until there's a cooler alternative.
Rockshox pricepoint, cheap used availability, and herd mentality will keep status quo.
-Doesn't matter if in reality one fork is fractionally smoother/better than another-they all work well enough!
I currently own a Fox 38 Factory and don't think it's all that great-works just fine and is shiny!-this and resale value is why I bought it.
-To date..Manitou Mezzer is the overall best feeling, easiest fork to set up I've owned.
  • 4 3
 @lexdamis:

So, by your own admision, you brought a fork for show-off. On this train of thought, you should buy the full rainbow axs, 52 cogs, obviously, latest enve wheels and cockpit and, of course, a kashima dropper to match.

Don't get me wrong, I love high performance parts and I'd buy/I am buying everytime the highest one I think I need, in relation with how the part is going to be used but, there are some components which are useless from a usability pov, unless you are very rich, case in which it does not matter. Me and probably a lot of PB users/readers cannot build show/exposition bikes with the highest bling; I mean, I/we can but we won't, as we value riding over looks. If mtb-ing is another hobby option after helicoper rides, track days in aggeras and yachting in the caraibes, then good for you men, you have reached success in life and I aplaud you. But, for most of us, spending 1600 Euro on a fox, when I can spend 900 on a Zeb and the rest of it I can put it towards a better frame or a better wheelset or even half the money for one week in Austrian Alps, yeah..for me, and probably for a lot of us, not getting a fox 38 is a no brainer. If I get crazy and want to spend that amount, well, it will be on a boutique racing fork/shox like ext or fast. But I'm not, as I have said, bikes are ment for riding, not for showing, so I'll stick with my ultimates and spend the difference on other things that add value to my life.
  • 5 2
 @eugenux: No, by average i mean anybody NOT in this thread or on this site . . There is a whole world of people out there that ride MTBs but are NOT into the high speed , jumping , steep angle turning, coming out of the saddle to brake and turn etc. way of interpreting the sport .
Most people don’t ride mt. bikes as a “sport” , they just like the stability that bigger tires bring and the option of going down a dirt path on occasion in a cushy and comfy way.
I’m one of those riders and my doctor and best friend rides his Mtb to work on the streets , my wife rides a mt, bike , very slowly , the woman across the street uses a Mt. e bike to haul her kids around in a trailer , my son and
daughter in law ride Mt. e bikes to work and to go shopping and none of them could tell you if their front fork is air or coil and if you asked them how do they like the front fork , that would just shrug and wonder what you are talking about . ok i hope you get my point . And YES a sport trail rider WOULD notice even the slightest difference but not the “ average rider .
Enjoy
  • 3 1
 @Sirios:

Similar to how most ppl buy big SUVs but they never get out of asphalt; they just like the higher driving position and greater perceived security.

Cheers.
  • 3 7
flag nurseben (Jul 30, 2020 at 11:11) (Below Threshold)
 @inked-up-metalhead: 1750 USD, that is a big price, nearly what the Trust ran, but without all the fancy carbon, and far less tech.

I'm sure the price will drop, just wait till next year.
  • 2 0
 @eugenux: Yes ,exactly ! That was a perfect example .
  • 8 2
 @nurseben: Lol at far less tech.
  • 3 0
 @eugenux: I think the problem here is that you don't live in America. You should be able to get a brand new fox 36 grip2 for around $800 usd (675 euro)....
  • 2 0
 at €1480, I would say not, there is nothing here more advanced than the dampers either company already makes
  • 1 0
 @Jshemuel: I’m not sure PUSH can do better than EXT, but you’re right about the orgasm... PUSH is definitely “cool” and makes great stuff that excites many.
  • 2 0
 @eugenux:

It’ll roughly come out to $1750 EU to import a fox factory 38 over to Europe.
1 EU: 1.17 USD, 16% VAT, CA Tax, and w/e shipping cost. You can also go straight to ride fox eu site and you’ll get the same price.

Not outrageous IMO as that would be the cost to import an intend BC or the EXT Era fork over to the USA. Even though USA has a US EXT distribution site, it’s still expensive.

I mainly stick with DVO and canecreek. It’s something different amongst the sea of fox and RS suspension you see at bike parks.

Honestly, I might be cheaper to flight to Cali, convert eu to usd, buy it then fly back. That’s if you are a diehard Fox Fan
  • 2 1
 @eugenux: yeah the price does seem high for a fork with an xfusion slate lower casting.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: yea, but have you ever tried the Diaz Suspension Design RUNT?
  • 3 3
 @nurseben: and on the bright side this fork apparently isn't a piece of shit like the trust fork. Trust...GTFO.....
  • 1 3
 @garrisond5: just because you don’t have one doesn’t make it it suck, sadly you may never know.

I could afford any fork I want, hell, I buy and sell forks like their pastries, but I ride a Shout and a Message.

Regardless, $1750 for a telescopic fork ain’t gonna fly no where and no how.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Looks mighty fine on that Meta, I'm awaiting a more in-depth review on this bike. My finger is poised on the trigger.. They land here in 5 days. Pretty keen
  • 3 0
 @Happypanda1337:
Not a fox fan. I only liked the X2 but RSses are 50% off when comparing it, without being 50% off the performance. And, like I've said earlier, RS 2021 ultimates forks are so good that I still can't believe the difference from my lyrik 3 years ago or to the two factory 36s after that.
Probably there are better forks out there but, they will not make me significantly faster. I will try the Mezzer at some point as it is basically the same price.
  • 2 0
 @enforce:
and really cool dudes to deal with!
got my storia v3 from thrm, great experience.
  • 7 2
 Well, I’m not buying Fox again after they launched a massive lawsuit on a company making custom fork decals (SlikGraphics). Thankfully there’s good alternatives!
  • 1 0
 @nug12182: Intend Edge is the most beautiful fork in the world!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 @Altron5000: Think they already (nearly) solved that, Slik sent an email stating that they are in contact with Fox.
  • 9 1
 @likehell: I don’t like that they took legal action in the first place. Some guys selling a few decals for 10-20 should not bother a company selling forks at 1500+...they should just focus on having less hideous orange forks in the first place!
  • 2 0
 @pk71: i wondered about this. In the UK and Canada EXT and Formula have the same distributors. Seems like a big product overlap.
  • 2 0
 @Altron5000: A Cease and Desist letter is not a lawsuit, let alone a massive one. It's a strongly worded letter from a lawyer. Fox have to show they're protecting their trademark or they can lose it – that's the law.

They could have handled it a *lot* better, obviously.
  • 1 0
 @mtb-journal: You can always find a nice discount for Fox. I am not sure about EXT
  • 1 0
 @denitopia: Thank you.
What about service in local shop? How much untypical tool i need for EXT?
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed , @enforce:
Thanks guys for answer. It is pity, Service kits will be nice option.
  • 2 1
 @nurseben: you're correct. I don't have one, because I'm not an easily swayed moron. I rode that piece of shit trust fork for over a month regretfully. I'm happy to be back on a fork that actually functions. You keep defending your idiotic purchase bro... Nobody is buying it. Could that be the reason the company is out of business? Could it be that the product is shit and the market spoke? Nah probably not... Keep lying to yourself.
  • 2 0
 @NotNamed: they're flashy, gold "hype" and really well advertised, while (in my experience) not actually being as good as they're competitors. i cant speak for the new fox stuff, but i vastly prefer my super deluxe and lyrik to my old x2 and 36.
  • 1 0
 @Darwin66:
Not sure about the X2, as I rembember some nuances in damping that I can't find in the super-deluxe but, the lyrik ultimate is effin' outstanding. It makes my former 36s look like some low lvl suntour, it is that good.
  • 1 0
 @LAT2: Selva keystone is almost $600 CDN less than an ERA
  • 2 0
 @gonecoastal: the Selva is sooo smooth and has all the adjustments you can want in a fork, in addition CTS valves make custom shock tuning so easy t the drop of a hat!
  • 148 7
 "The exact number of clicks varies slightly due to assembly tolerances"
Sounds very Italian to me
  • 57 0
 Some grip2 dampers have 30 clicks of which only 16 actually do something, I’d take EXTs approach any day.
  • 27 3
 Varies according to how many detent dimples they feel like machining.
  • 12 19
flag opamp84 (Jul 30, 2020 at 4:48) (Below Threshold)
 have you seen a Pike Ultimate? or a fox 36? their clicks? good.... they sound then very "american"?! or do you think that germany engineering is super precise and to the point?!
each fork or shock have their tolerances, inform yourself before judging Mr Perfection.

.. you should have to do with the FOX customer service in Germany.. viel Spaß !!!
  • 11 4
 rhis entire thread sucks
  • 30 1
 Yeah dude its pretty much true on any needle based adjuster from any country.. and its the reason that you count from fully closed. Closed is the only true zero to count from
  • 12 0
 @englertracing: This!!! Jordi would be proud Wink
  • 11 0
 @riderseventy7: Actually, it's the length of threads that would effect this. There are usually detents in a full circle, but if the adjuster is able to turn a couple dozen more degrees because the threads are cut a couple thou further, then you might reach the next detent. All dampers display this: I currently have a DPX2 that just almost clicks into an "extra" full open detent on LSC, but my prevous DPX2 barely moved past the expected "last" detent.
  • 2 1
 Haha my thoughts exactly. Building small batches, should equal tighter tolerances, as it is presumably hand built.
  • 6 3
 FIAT - Fix It Again Tony
  • 5 0
 Any damper will behave slightly different, no matter how expensive/small batch etc. For racecars, they put each damper on a test rig and then match the adjustment clicks based on it. There's simply no way of getting them to behave identically.
  • 1 0
 What, honesty in place of marketing jargon feels very italian?
  • 1 0
 @Fiuz:
He. Rant thevariation on ksc clicks. But that comment was nonsense as on every fork I hade, there were little variations. Other than that ext products are produced veeeery precisely as everythibg that comes from those car sports. We have a german tuner that comes from BMW andhas very high standards on tolerances and their performance goes on a similar level as ext. But no complete damper or fork available up till now unfortunately.
Their golden ride tuning for grip grip2 und rs
Is really great. And they can improve some of your stock forks issues to get better smoothness from the bushings as well
  • 51 1
 Finally someone thinking about how to fix creaking crowns. Hopefully it’s enough material. A bit embarrassing for Fox and RockShox really as to how simple a solution it is.
  • 6 57
flag hobbnobs (Jul 30, 2020 at 1:21) (Below Threshold)
 Fox 38 has an elliptical steerer and doesn’t creak. Smarter solution imo
  • 77 1
 @hobbnobs: "Fox 38 has an elliptical steerer and doesn’t creak. "

I am 43% scepticism by volume when reading that claim.
  • 8 6
 I'm interested to see how this extended crown works. It still has to have an external diameter of 1.5" to fit inside the crown race. So what have they done, reduced the size of the steerer tube to fit inside this extra tube part of the crown? Will that be likely to snap off at the point where it flares out into the crown? I'm not pissing on it at all. Just that's the first thing that comes to mind when I look at it.

This part I am skeptical about, because I've read it hundreds of times and it's never been true. They even admit same in the next year's review, and again, and again.

"Air that feels like a coil."
  • 11 1
 @jaame: you can see on one image the steerer tube going in all the way til it comes out a t the bottom, so the contact point is much bigger, makes a lot of sense. with the oval from fox its still the same contact area.
  • 23 0
 @hobbnobs: not only are there plenty of reports of creaking 38s in the unit vorsprung reviewed the steer tube wasn't clocked perfectly.
  • 2 0
 True & I really hope so, but 1st I think we should find out if this works as a fix.... File under "time will tell".
  • 6 4
 @jaame: "Air that feels like a coil" =Bos Deville
  • 13 0
 @hobbnobs: people have had issues with the 38 creaking.
  • 8 0
 @hobbnobs: it's my understanding that 90% of the these creaking issues come from the poor fit of the stanchion to the crown. Less so the steerer to the crown.
  • 6 4
 Fixing crown creaks is very easy. Tighter press fits. Fox and RS machined too much from their crowns over the last few years which left no ring of metal to form a solid press-fit around the steerer. RS has since improved this with the Lyrik.

But Fox creaking stanchions persist with soft fits, it may be because Kashima doesn't like being squeezed in tight?
  • 5 0
 @Dougal-SC: Black legged ones do it too, can confirm.... can confirm on the exact day the 2yr warranty expired actually, one day they're virtually silent, the next day they sound like a rusty door hinge.
  • 10 0
 My friend bought a hydraulic press so he could press the steer tube out of the crown and press it in again with super strong loctite glue. Since then we had no creaking noises. He did more than 10 forks like this. Intend does this to their forks as well
  • 3 6
 @Korbi777: The only potential issue with this I can see is the lower headset bearing is on the crown and the upper on the steer tube. If the interface between crown and steer tube does ever become slightly loose, aka creaky, the loading on the headset bearings will be out of alignment when if flexes and this will cause issues. Fast bearing wear and maybe binding. It might also increase the loading of the frame's head tube. I suspect that's why fox/rs don't use it.
  • 2 0
 @emptybox: we did something similar in A level technology back in 1996. It totally worked.
  • 1 3
 I'd be concerned about mfg. tolerances at the crown race seat
  • 2 0
 @kcy4130: You're only talking tiny amounts of movement in order to make them creak, over the length of the steerer that will equate to nothing in terms of the relative angles of the bearings. Will be fine.
  • 7 0
 @dave-f: Why? It looks like a machined seat, with a machined hole and likely machined tube crammed in the center. Out of all the things to worry about in a new product how is this the first thing that comes to mind? It looks nearly 2x the insertion of anyone else’s steer to crown interface.
  • 4 0
 @hobbnobs:

Todays review on mtb-news. They got a creaking 38's crown but it has been exchanged and fuss free since then.

If you want a creakfree crown take a unicrown design as Öhlins did. Crown and steerer as one part
  • 3 0
 @hobbnobs: the elliptical machining has little to do with creaking.
  • 1 0
 @bansaiman: If only stanchion/crown interface wouldn´t creak...
  • 4 0
 @PhillipJ: Especially when I saw one review where the elliptical steerer wasn't even keyed properly in the crown instead having about a 30 degree turn. Super solid QC there.
  • 1 3
 @hobbnobs: it’s the joint between the steerer tube and the crown that’s the weak spot that causes the creeks. Using a stiffer steerer tube only puts more stress on that joint and makes it more likely to creek. Honestly back in the 90’s this wasn’t an issue. We had bolt up crowns and they changed them to press fit merely for cosmetic reasons and we’ve been paying for it ever since. Honestly if they can’t solve this problem and they clearly can’t let’s just have bolt up crown back please.
  • 2 1
 @hobbnobs: just gone back through. Missed the crown design. It’s definitely much better than fox’s design way better but if they used fox’s oval head tubes with this design that might be even better.
  • 2 0
 @vinny4130: I'd guess the larger overlap will have a positive effect on creaking. But you're depending on the dimensions and expansion of the parts to add up such that after the press fit the headset seat is exactly the right size. Probably not a problem for split ring type seats like hope, but putting a cheap steel part or a chris king SS part on there if the dimensions are off is a problem. Unless they machine the dimensions for the headset after they press in the steerer, which I doubt.
  • 6 1
 @friendlyfoe: this +1

First thing that came to mind when they unveiled the 38...A heavier 36 that will still need more service interval and ultimately develop a creak.

This obsession with beefing up the stanchions for Enduro bike is just marketing BS.

I own a CC Helm air. more supportive than fox even without volume reduction/spacers. 35mm stanchions so weights less and guess what... IT DOESN'T CREAK.

Just got told by my local fox service center, that once a fox fork goes out of warranty, they cant even give it a basic service without first sending it off to have a creak address by a new CSU install at the expensive of the owner.... bye bye fox
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I was always under the impression they lost the bolts to cut down on costs and weight, and to increase stiffness by not having a slot. I always thought they looked shit when they first came out, but it could have been because the Mag 21 and Judy retained the bolt in stanchions and steerer for a few years after the budget Quadra 10 got the press fits.
  • 1 1
 @Stetay: you dont service your own suspension
weird....
  • 4 0
 @kcy4130: yeah no no no
people use angle sets everyday that have less than precise alignment due to the amount of offset per degree of angle change varying with head tube length, so they sell them in 10mm increments and even then its slightly off, and then people never install them dead on, so its off too
guess what works fine...........
ever wonder why they run on a tapered crown race?
ever wonder why the bearing has a chamfer on the od?
it allows them to handle significant misalignment
dont get me wrong its not ideal to have significant misalignment but the system will tolerate it and will actually wear the headset cup.
  • 1 0
 Finally? Ohlins already did it with the RXF. The crown and steerer are a single, forged unit.
  • 2 0
 @pbuser2299: I know they do. I do creak repair (silent treatment) for all of them. Obviously Fox use the same tolerances for black ano vs Kashima. But I suspect Kashima limits how tight the press-fit can be as Kashima can flake if damaged.
  • 4 0
 @Dougal-SC:
Well, black and Kashima are just anodizing... the black gets black dye before being sealed while Kashima gets magic secret.... plain ol MoS2 before sealing.

Shouldn't be a major difference in scratch and flake characteristics.
  • 1 0
 Well I consider myself schooled! Thanks all for the knowledge
  • 2 0
 @bansaiman: they don’t do it anymore as it’s not as ridged.
  • 1 0
 @englertracing: There should be a big difference. But there is. Kashima if damaged comes off in flakes. Maybe they've pushed the ano thickness to the max.
  • 33 0
 Anyone else notice this has the same lowers as the x-fusion trace 36? I mean they MAY be different, but it certainly doesn't look like it. Not a criticism, more an observation.
  • 17 2
 Whoa, good eye. If those aren't cranked out of the same supplier's factory I will drink a quart of Float Fluid. It makes sense, a small company can't be expected to have the capability to do this kind of specialized casting manufacturing, and especially at low volumes even with the high price of this fork.
  • 4 0
 Bloody hell you're right. Nice spot.
  • 3 6
 I just downloaded the pics The dropouts are similar The arch is way flatter on the ext and the bushing bulges are wayyyyyyyyy smaller
  • 25 0
 @englertracing: No, they're identical. Just did an overlay in photoshop adjusted for the perspective warp due to being installed on a bike.

gfycat.com/threadbaredisguisedbernesemountaindog
  • 2 0
 @cueTIP: ahhhh i seeeeeeee
  • 1 0
 @cueTIP:
Hey well spotted that’s awesome, seems the bushing/dirt wiper seal bulge on the casting inside might be slightly higher?
  • 1 0
 @Santacruz817: I think that's just the difference in perspective between the shots. Photoshop can't fix everything when the angles are different.
  • 35 8
 Looks very good. Air spring is similar to manitous irt. The CSU is something that i am really happy to finally see and the overall appereance of the fork is very nice. The only shitty thing is there is no 27.5 wheel size, but i hope that is upcoming next year, because not everyone wants to ride these ugly ass wagon wheels.
  • 2 2
 29" with 44mm offset means you can ride 27.5" without problems...
  • 12 1
 @qblambda: It's 20mm taller.
  • 2 2
 @qblambda: wheres the new spark?? i know you time your sparks with the olympics!! please dont hold off on releasing it just because the olympics is now postponed too!
  • 6 0
 Enduro Race, no 27,5" versions because you don't need fun..
  • 18 0
 Seems really nice but they have to pass the test of customer service at the long term. When BOS came up a few years ago with the Devilles and other stuff everybody wanted BOS. Look at them now, they still have really good products but their customer service politics gave them such a bad reputation that it's rare to see a bike with BOS.
  • 9 0
 ^This, 100%. After a year of top tier performance from a Deville and Kirk, I picked up an Idylle and Stoy for my DH bike. They were great until they needed service and Bos was unable to deliver anything remotely acceptable.
  • 15 0
 Can't speak for EXT direct, but Mojo/Geometron are absolutely first class when it comes to customers, and I don't think they'd be involved with EXT unless they were the same.
  • 1 0
 @Hill-Seeker: 200% I regret buying my build with BOS suspension. It's got amazing performance but no one in the USA will service it so they expect me to send everything back to Italy for servicing. Not acceptable in this day and age.
  • 10 0
 Just had my Storia serviced by Alba Distribution in Canada (Squamish/Whistler) and it feels incredible again. The service was fast and they were great to deal with. There seems to be solid support in the US, Australia, Europe and probably elsewhere too. Time will tell but it seems they’re off to a good start.
  • 7 0
 @lifeofloon: You mean back to France.
  • 2 0
 @Mondbiker: bahaha, yes! Guess I hadn't had my morning coffee before responding.
  • 14 0
 @lifeofloon: Probably have a better chance of getting a response if you sent it to Italy
  • 2 3
 @honourablegeorge: call me crazy, but I own two nicolais and I don’t really trust a lot of what Chris Porter says. Just rubs me the wrong way
  • 3 0
 @onlyDH: Five years ago, Chris Porter was doing bikes with long reach, steep seat angle, low bb, 63 HA, mullet wheels, and short fork offsets. Basically the geometry of the 2020 Enduro, five years ago. He can be an abrasive character, sure, but he gets a lot of stuff right.
  • 20 3
 I still don't understand the need for the fox 38 and the zeb besides just fox and RS marketing BS. The Boxxer is still 35mm, and nobody ever complained about the fox 36. Gotta reach the yearly target for sales and you ran out of letters in the alphabet to make acronyms?
  • 2 0
 I’ll take a lowered Boxxer or 49 w/MORC on the front of my Enduro bike before a Zeb/38.
  • 5 0
 I complain about my 36 all the time
  • 5 0
 You answered your own question. The Big players in the suspension industry have innovated nothing in the last few years, so to keep the market running they now "innovate" by doing this shit.
  • 4 2
 @Kai-P: I'm sure your complaints on the 36 are not due to the stanchions lacking 2mm thickness though
  • 3 0
 Dual crowns and a larger diameter axle can do *a lot* to make a fork like the Boxxer stiff enough even with smaller diameter stanchions.

And yes, the 36 is known to be flexier than its competition.
  • 2 0
 Almost everyone I know over 190lbs or so complains about the Fox 36 for stiffness.
  • 1 0
 To be fair, when my fork broke in half, "Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 2" it was the stanchions that broke, but they were 32mm, I don't know, it's hard to say.
  • 2 0
 @showmethemountains: F the people that pushed 15mm axles on us. I had a 20mm Lyric, 36 Qr 20mm, then a 36 5 bolt 15/20mm then BOOST 15 36
  • 19 0
 The system looks like IRT of Manitou
  • 9 0
 Had a Mattoc, that was an awesome fork and I bought it new for $300 New. Here you're paying $1740. I bet it rides great though..
  • 6 0
 yea, the air spring system is pretty much identical. i really like the IRT setup.
  • 14 0
 Mezzer with IRT is a way better value for that tech, and you can get hydraulic bottom out feature, which is also rad.
  • 7 0
 And, surprisingly, Manitou doesn't seem to have the same issues with CSU creak.
  • 15 0
 @PHeller: I own a Mezzer at the moment and it does not surprise me at all that there is no CSU creak. It may be 400 grams lighter than a 38 but it is much better designed.

I finally had a chance to test a 38 back-to-back with the Mezzer. The 38 is an awesome fork. The Mezzer is just ever so slightly better, particularly in the rough steeps.
  • 5 0
 @PHeller: The Mattoc did, but the Mezzer seems to have it sorted out.
  • 15 0
 I wonder what kind of reviews the Mattoc would've had if being an expensive boutique one like this.
General consensus among owners is that blows everything else out of the water, but is cheaper so it must be worse, ain't it?
  • 11 0
 As much as I just want to drop some offhand comment about the "feels like a coil" thing, I've started noticing my initial reaction to stuff like this is always something negative, even if I actually really like the product. This seems really cool, and just having seen what EXT does with shocks makes me excited to see how this preforms. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but I figure if you really want the plush feeling of a coil that bad, just get a coil fork? I understand that air is incredibly more adjustable, and generally lighter, but idk it just seems odd that everyone is trying so hard to replicate what we already have? I feel like I must be wrong here...
  • 4 0
 I was waiting for this one but the price was a bit high so decided to still go with the Vorsprung Smashpot coil kit in my Lyrik (b-o since this spring but should be back in stock soon..). It should be about 2400g (27.5) so not much of a difference!
  • 13 1
 So a Mezzer but with a spring and heavier? (Not hating on EXT) Mike I do think you should give the Mezzer another shot.
  • 12 0
 Jesus! $2.5k AUS

Might have to sell a kidney
  • 1 0
 Man, the Aussie dollar sssuuxxxxxxx
  • 27 2
 Just buy a Mezzer. Half the price, 250grams or more lighter, same air spring (Manitou have been using their IRT for years) and their hydraulic bottom out in the damper prevents the harsh bottom out the reviewer said they experienced with the Era. The Mezzer even comes in 27.5 and up to 180mm.
  • 9 4
 @riderseventy7: Mike Kaz also wrote the review on the Mezzer....
And his comments are vastly different to his opinions on the Era.

To be fair, you could buy a high end fork and a set of carbon wheels for the price of the Era
  • 21 3
 @Waldon83: Because it's not "cool" to ride a Manitou.
Same with Giant, Specialized, Trek or whatever that outperform SC, Yeti, Intense and other "cool" brands.
  • 2 0
 Price is rather high but understandable if it's all made in Italy rather than far east. I don't know if they cast these lowers themselves.
  • 2 1
 @Will-narayan: should be lower then lol
  • 14 0
 @Waldon83: I've seen that review. Gotta say I'm baffled by his thoughts on it (not the bushings, that needed sorting). Especially after reading almost every other Mezzer review. And reading and hearing owners experiences etc only added to the bafflement.

Still, I ended up buying a Mezzer to replace the 2020 Lyrik Ultimate RC2 on my Meta. I hung onto the Lyrik "just in case". However it is the Mezzer that is still up front on the Meta and the Lyrik that has been sold off.
  • 5 0
 @Waldon83: They had a problem with the bishings in the beginning. This is now solved and old ones with problems can be sent in for replacement. So Mike should do an other review.
All other reviews I could find had only praise for the Mezzer.
  • 2 0
 @riderseventy7: can you elaborate on this please? ive been toying with the idea of getting a mezzer to replace my lyrik rc2 but was wondering how big the step in performance really is
  • 12 1
 @Waldon83: Yeah, it's cool how he completely ignores the fact that the EXT air spring is a total ripoff of the Manitou IRT. His Mezzer review was baffling to all of us that own one. This looks like a pretty damn nice fork, but even if it cost the same as the Mezzer instead of over double what I paid for mine, I would rather have the Mezzer.
  • 3 0
 Bargain, it would be about R30k in SA.
  • 1 0
 @riderseventy7: you da man.
well said
  • 2 0
 @msusic: Yup brand whores exist in mtb as much as they do in fashion. Waiting on my Louis Vuitton edition Santa Cruz so I can show it off at the trailhead on my monthly bike ride.
  • 1 0
 @msusic: Define out performs
  • 4 2
 @Waldon83: There was a lot of speculation about the damping in the Mezzer article. Talking about how an adjustment affects it "even at slow shaft speeds" when you didn't put it on a dyno is... silly verging on wrong.
  • 8 1
 @Waldon83:

But his unit must have been faulty as the Mezzer gets great reviews everywhere else. And my tuner who ist 110 kilos and a bike guide love the Mezzer. Already did some simple and cheap tunibgs and now it is even better, although mine already is that sensitive, that it really lets vanish most chatter on stewo uphills, iffers plenty of traction, support, control and saves your forearms. I would be really interested in the difference of damping performance
  • 5 0
 @riderseventy7: Exactly what I was thinking. IRT with HBO is a great combo.
  • 14 4
 @msusic, the Mezzer I reviewed had issues that were already mentioned in this thread. It wasn't a matter of the brand being "cool" or not - the label on a fork, or any component for that matter, doesn't sway my opinion. With the Era, like I said in this article, I haven't ridden a fork that felt this good straight out of the box. Ever.

I'm glad there are riders out there who are having good luck with the Mezzer - it's great they seem to have sorted out the issues I experienced.

In any case, the EXT Era is shaping up to be a very impressive offering. The more options the better, especially if they perform as well as this one.
  • 3 0
 Also, I think price is actually 1480 plus VAT
  • 5 0
 @Theguyfromthealps, that's correct. We typically don't include taxes when listing prices because they'll vary from country to country.
  • 4 0
 @Theguyfromthealps: Wow. $2300 CAD before VAT charges for a single crown fork... Outstanding value!!!
  • 9 0
 @Waldon83: Mike must have had a seriously bum Mezzer. Every single other review on the internet loved it. Every one. I ordered one and regretted it when I saw the review. Put it on and nothing of what Kaz said rang true.

I don't doubt he got a bum fork. Manitou flat-out admits they had a bad batch in the first production run. Hell, when I called asking for new seals they just told me to send my fork to the Canadian service tech and he just replaced the lowers without even testing to see if I had issues. I've sent forks to SRAM, Fox and DVO before. SRAM took 3 weeks. Fox lost it twice and took nearly a month and a half to get it back to me. DVO had it for a week. Manitou had it back to me next day. I dropped it off Tuesday evening with the service tech, he had it back Wednesday by noon. Even if I had to ship it to another city it would have been 3 days max. I'm crazy impressed.
  • 3 0
 @cueTIP: and I once had Fox re-send me a damper almost immediately after UPS lost it, without any trouble at all, even overnighted the second one. Everyone has a good experience story and a bad experience story.
  • 5 0
 @cueTIP: I'm assuming that was Zac (SmithTech), and yeah, he's the cat's ass. A good old riding buddy of mine, and great on the service end.
  • 3 0
 @just6979: No, they lost my fork IN THEIR FACILITIES, not USPS.
  • 7 4
 @Waldon83: The Mezzer review here was one of the worst suspension product reviews I've ever read. Not only did it contradict my experiences with the fork, it lacked detail I'm used to seeing on this site and it was clear reading the comments that the author spent very little time trying to actually dial the fork in. He made some comments that were objectively incorrect about setup. If you read other sites (e.g. NSMB), they go into far more detail on the fork and overall feel, they obviously also put more effort into testing it. That said, Manitou should have been more responsive to his questions and problems, as it's not exactly straightforward if you don't take time to try and understand the way it works (which apparently EXT did here).

That's not to say it didn't have problems, the bushing slop in particular was an issue of varying severity depending on who you asked. I have friends with them that had none, mine was pretty bad and ultimately drove me to try another fork until it was fixed.

I've had 9 different forks in the last 2 years, the Mezzer is one of the best I've tried, only beaten out by the RXF36 M.2 by a slight margin. Yes, it takes some time to get a feel for how the IRT system works, but any 3 chamber air spring (this EXT fork included) will require the same, as it's a different setup mentality from what other brands use. The result is a fork that is more supportive while tracking better, but it does take some effort to dial it in and you have to break out of the mentality you have with traditional 2 chamber air spring forks. Most of the other reviews I've read, either on other sites or from individuals, align much closer with my very positive experiences. The PB review is the outlier.
  • 14 5
 @shinook, umm, I'm right here, and I spent a significant amount of time experimenting with different settings on that fork. In addition, my final configuration was quite close to what Manitou recommends. The Manitou super fans came out of the woodwork to try and tear me a new one, but I still stand by my findings with that particular test fork.

For anyone that's curious what the hubbub was about, this is the review: www.pinkbike.com/news/review-manitou-mezzer-pro-fork.html.
  • 9 0
 @mikekazimer: We discussed the Mezzer and issues I (and others) took with your review at length there, so I won't rehash it.

I will address the 'Manitou superfan' comment, though. I've only owned one Manitou fork in the last 20 years or so, the last one I had was in the 90s. I'm hardly a 'super fan', I just took issue with your review as it contradicted all of my own experiences and lacked detail (even compared to this 'First Ride', which was more detailed than the Mezzer full review was). You also made some claims in the comments (e.g. about 2psi not making a difference in ride feel, when it very much does with the Mezzer's main chamber) that I found incorrect based on the 9 months I spent on the fork (~4 at the time). We don't all get it right all the time, I just was hoping for more detail, but I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to criticism.
  • 9 4
 @mikekazimer: Every user comment - "my new fork is the best fork I've ever ridden"

Mikes resume far exceeds the however many forks you've all ridden in the last 25 minutes. You also all vary in weight, stature and riding style.

Mike is a great example of a 'control', because he's a constant (or an Virgo, I don't know)
Thanks for the write up Mike, just going to hop into this ice bath and put this kidney in a jar.
  • 7 0
 @Waldon83: then don’t take my word for it, read every other review written on the fork and compare.
  • 8 4
 @mikekazimer: The weirdest thing about your mezzer review is your air pressures. We're the same size and weight, I run 40/60psi, Manitou chart (on the fork) is 46/73psi and you were running 56/84psi to make it ride higher.

So you run too much air pressure and then say the fork doesn't offer as much grip, felt harsh and couldn't make braking bumps disappear.

That's exactly what happens when you over-spring a fork. There was no mention in the article about trying lower pressures. You just wanted the fork to ride higher.
  • 4 1
 @Dougal-SC, I'm 160 lb. Manitou's chart recommends 52 in the main, 84 psi in the IRT for a 160mm fork. I'm not sure why you think my numbers are so strange.
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer: That is pretty high pressure for your weight TBH.
  • 3 2
 @mtb-scotland, how so? Keep in mind that a good portion of my testing of that fork took place in the Whistler Bike Park during the summer. High speeds, bigger hits, etc...
  • 2 0
 @Rabbuit: Yeah but you guys have koala's!
  • 6 0
 @mikekazimer: Just for future reference, I am also 160lbs and run at 160mm. I found 52/84 too harsh. I ended up dropping main to 47 and upping IRT to 86 (to regain the support lost from dropping main pressure) and it was night and day better. I have since fine tuned to 45.5/85

And yes, 1-2psi really does have a noticable change in performance.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: I actually find those numbers high as well. I’m 195 kitted up and I run 54 in the main and 80 in the IRT. What travel were you testing at? To be clear, I’m not picking the fight some of the other guys seem to be. Your numbers make sense if you were running it at 150mm and would be a bit stiff at 160mm and Aaron Gwin stiff at 170/180mm. I do believe the air spring doesn’t perform as well below 170mm though as it reduces the relative volume of the main chamber vs the IRT. However, I don’t really think the fork is targeted at the 150-160mm Pike / 34 territory. But more the 170-180 Lyric/Zeb and 36/38 territory. Doing what RS does, mandating a different air shaft for the shorter travel range might help that, but I’m fine if the fork targets the burly side of the market. It should just be made more clear from Manitou maybe.
  • 2 0
 @cueTIP, those numbers were for the 160mm version.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: fair enough. Would you guys ever consider doing another review with the fork at 180mm using the revised lowers? Makes it a better comparison for the people since I doubt anybody is cross shopping a Zeb and Pike.
  • 5 1
 @mikekazimer: I travel all over to ride (not this year though, stupid covid) and have tested my set ups (and products) on all types of trails. My home base of Ohio means very little when it comes to trails or skill level.
  • 7 4
 @mikekazimer: Because this is a setup fundamental. If your (air) fork feels harsh, lacks traction and doesn't follow braking bumps then you drop pressure. But you didn't. Instead you listed those as performance negatives and blamed the fork.

If you are riding harder terrain you need to run more compression damping. But you didn't.

It comes across in a review as either uninformed or biased. Perhaps you tried to set it up like a Lyrik (which has no useful compression damping and no HBO). It's hard to know. But you're here still defending poor setup choices.

My fork is a 180mm set at 170mm. Only difference is travel spacers. The pressure chart is 46/73 and I run 40/60psi. 56/84 psi would give me poor traction and a harsh ride but I'd lose all credibility if I wrote that.
  • 11 3
 @Dougal-SC, this debate is getting really old - I’ve discussed this ad nauseum, including mentioning that I tried running lower pressures than what I settled on. I’m glad you’ve found settings that work well for you, and that your fork doesn’t have an unacceptable amount of bushing play.

If travel is ever possible again feel free to visit and we can go for a ride and talk about suspension settings in real life. I’m pretty sure you’ll see that I know how to set up a fork, no matter what brand it is.
  • 1 4
 @mikekazimer: you’re not still looking for the air valve on that rigid fork are you?
I told you, it’s on the other side!
  • 1 0
 @cueTIP: I'm just saying, you can't just blanket them with "Fox service sucks because my service took a long time", because more often than not, they're great.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: never said it did. Just saying it is nowhere near what you get out of smaller companies. I have spent well over $10,000 on fox parts alone in the last 3 years between my bicycles, dirt bike and truck. Regardless of the division you are waiting at least 2 weeks for service. Manitou has never taken more than a week to get my fork back to me and I’ve sent 4 things to them for service. A Mattoc Pro back in 2016. My Mezzer and two McLeod shocks from couple of friends who bought bikes with them.

Fox service is adequate. Manitou is exceptional.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: I wouldn't miss that opportunity Dougal Smile , riding with the man Kazimer should be nice. Except he will be kinda pissed off because suspension settings talk.... Maybe few beers will help to avoid a harsh conversation.
  • 2 1
 @Dougal-SC: Thanks for sharing your insights over at mtbr, if you do be the same Dougal.
  • 3 0
 @HopeFbn, nah, I’m usually in a pretty good mood whenever I’m on a bike. A few laps and I’m sure we’d have everything sorted out.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: Why delete your comment to me? Weird.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: That sounds like a proper MTBer, wouldn't expect less. Thanks for the reviews.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I'll take you up on that offer. But it may be a few years before I can get there again.
  • 2 0
 @Waldon83:

The point is Mike had a somehow faulty Mezzer of the first batch and silly as they were to not communicate with him properly, manitou got a bad review.
BUT these problems habe beem sorted with their QC and this fork just simply rocks. Esoeccially as I now only have done minimal changes to my compression stack. Best fork I have ever used. Maybe that it is even better than the Mezzer but still a Lyrik ultimate and the likes fall behind a Mezzer when you have your setup
  • 2 1
 @shinook: @shinook: by all respect for all Manitou super fans out there. I know it is interesting to compare the EXT Era with Mezzer, but I think it is by far unbalanced to say so. I have seen companies like Rulezman Suspension doing upgrade of the Dorado, and if I am not wrong they do so with the Mezzer too. That brings the surfaces and the internals many clicks higher in tolerances and probably less friction too. So if you treated your Mezzer with both Rulezman upgrade and if possible (not available though) could put an Avalanche cartridge inside it, you could be fair to compare it with EXT Era. You probably still had not the tolerances and the material quality together with the fine adjustment to work so good like the Era does. BTW if you could buy a Mezzer with Rulezman treatment and Avalanche damper cartridge it would actually cost more too.....
  • 2 0
 @G1EXTStoria: except you for the most part don't have to "tune" your mezzer because its actually well set up to start with. unlilke my previous RS and fox forks I have no reason to change anything on my mezzer.
  • 1 0
 @G1EXTStoria:

Read my post properly, last 3clines.i admitted, it ms well be worse than the era knowing the storia and exts worksmanship, but for half the price I am ok, woth only second best fork.

Where do you know from the avaoanche reaply wirks better, did sou rude both? In the mezzer thread there are some people that rode both and had a rubt as well in their avy fork. Some like the mezzer more. So may be one of them is better in damping hut dud YOU testvmezzer vs avy?

I know a tuner which does tuning wirk which doesn't cist the world and he makes tunings improving the tolerances like RULEZMANcand akready did some stack tuning which improved it further.
The only thing I really think couod bevan improvement is this BOS and Avy used fcv. Would love to get that, too

Seems to be somehow similar what ext intends with their additional shimstack part
  • 2 0
 @G1EXTStoria: It really isn't an unfair comparison. They both play in the same travel ranges/category and, making the comparison even more worthwhile, they are both one of now three production brands using a 3-chamber air spring. It's no different than comparing the Mezzer to the Ohlins RXF36 or even the 36/Lyrik/etc. They all have their differences, but they are in the same category and have similarities, even if they are somewhat high-level similarities. When people look to buy products, they are going to compare them to things they are familiar with and meet the category they are in.

So while I have no doubt that the Era has higher tolerances, that alone doesn't negate comparisons with similar products. If anything, these comparisons need to be made more frequently with smaller brands, so people can relate to how the product performs compared to something they are familiar with.

All that said, I was mainly commenting on the Mezzer article and the fact it wasn't really thoroughly fleshed out compared to other reviews.
  • 12 0
 #650baintdead
  • 6 0
 This is something I would actually consider buying in 27.5
  • 8 0
 oh god i'm drooling over the Storia V3 since one year for my Propain Spindrift and now this...
  • 5 0
 A bit disappointed after reading that title. I was eager to read the article expecting brand new technologies. Seems like Manitou's IRT / Ohlins 3rd chamber with an added coil spring at the beginning of the stroke for better small bump compliance.

As I'm used not to relate so much with Mike's takes on forks, I'd be really curious to try it for myself though.
  • 12 0
 Why does a promising fork need new technologies? Whats wrong with a high quality execution of existing technologies?
  • 2 0
 @Bobadeebob: Nothing wrong with that. The title was standing out from usual and I guess I had different expectations after reading it.
  • 5 0
 usually the silver bullet isnt a totally different approach, its a magic combination of iterations of approaches that already exist
  • 6 0
 Is that mini coil spring that starts the travel interchangeable for different wider weights?
  • 1 1
 You mean the spring that preloads the ifp on the damper side ?
  • 5 0
 @emptybox: No, the spring side has a little coil at the bottom. It looks like the entire airshaft is sprung by it for initial travel, this would take the air spring seals out of the friction/stiction equation for initial travel. It's an interesting feature, but I wonder how much of a parking lot party trick it is compared to a significant trail feature. Having different rates available would be a clue to this.
  • 1 0
 @emptybox: He means the small integrated coil on the spring side, which controls the initial travel- on the bottom of the spring assembly.

Interesting question.
  • 1 0
 @emptybox: no I mean the "integrated coil spring" on the spring side that starts moving before the air spring gets going
  • 2 0
 @phobospwns:
@velodonata:
Now I see it. Thanks
  • 4 0
 No it’s not interchangeable. It works for all rider weights similar to DVO’s OTT
  • 4 0
 @gnarcissistictendency: DVO's OTT has adjustable preload, which makes a noticeable difference.
  • 4 0
 @gnarcissistictendency: DVO OTT is something completely different.
  • 3 0
 @gnarcissistictendency: How does it work for all rider weights? I weigh 55kg, hence my concern. A coil spring that's rated for an average mountain biker wouldn't have to compress much before the force matched my air spring filled with it's tiny pressure (compared to the pressure an average rider runs). That being the case i may end up getting a tiny amount of travel out of the coil before my air spring starts moving, making the coil redundant.
  • 9 0
 Manitou Mars air spring worked with a coil before the air and on those you could change the coil for different stiffness is and those came out two decades ago seems like everyone just keeps recycling Manitou technology
  • 2 0
 DVO's OTT doesn't work for everyone, it works for most.
  • 4 0
 @Bobadeebob: you only need a tiny amount of movement - it's just to break the seal/air spring stiction easier isn't it?
  • 4 0
 @boostin: Yes, the Manitou Mars air springs were really good! The coil spring was larger than this design, so it did a proportionally larger amount of the work so getting the right weight spring was important. They probably ditched it for that reason (stocking different springs, people won't like how it feels if they don't know to swap springs) and the extra weight. But my 2007 Minute had incredible small bump compliance and traction!
  • 3 0
 I had one of the original Ohlins 36's with a one price, machined steerer rather than a press fit. That was the stiffest single crown I've ever ridden. Why do they mess around with press fits if other solutions work. Can't be that much more to machine it. I would gladly pay more if there creaking was a thing of the past!
  • 6 0
 Making it a single piece is significantly more complicated. I expect they'd need to charge at least $100 more (that's likely a low estimate) to maintain their margins.

The issue is that the entire steerer tube would become part of the forging, which triples its size. You then have a massive amount of additional machining to deal with.
  • 2 0
 @DaneL: Again, I would gladly pay more as I think most would also to get rid of the eventual creak that most SC forks develop if you ride hard/race. Higher production volumes would help bring the costs down and complex forgings are nothing new. If RS or Fox adopted it across their lines, there would be a premium but I doubt much. It would basically be in the shape of a T vs a bar, so not that bad.
  • 2 0
 I think this design is a compromise in between,not press fit at the bearing area but not uni crown.
Probably it is the best solution from a manufacturer point of view,solving the creaking thing not making a machine crown&steer tube.
You have a ton of bonding area.
  • 4 0
 @DaneL:

But if they really took the castibg of tge x fusion trace, than they could have taken their Uni crowndesign, too. X fusion offered a trace 29 with a steerer crown one oieve unit, too. Thus they could implement that also and save some weight by that, too.
  • 3 0
 @homerjm: Or just do what every other industry does and have slightly looser fittings with and use Locktite retaining compound. The creaking is most likely from fretting in most cases. No idea why this industry doesn't use retaining compound on the forks for press fits.
  • 1 0
 @txclg: I don´t know 100% but I would imagine the crown and the tube are bonded with some kind of thing.
This design put all the load mostly in the crown,not in the meeting point of the crown-tube. It seems like more surface to support each other.
That is what I think is key
  • 3 0
 Machining a single piece like that is much more complex. The cast required for the larger part is either going to be bigger or have 1/3 to 1/4 of the cavity count which has a major impact on production volume. Then the final machining is going to take much longer.

A single piece CSU would probably cost well over 3x as much as a press-fit assembly.
  • 1 0
 @txclg: Because loctite is a hazardous product and it's not conducive to mass production. It also doesn't set well on anodised aluminium.

All they need to do is tighten up their fits. Some are soo loose that fork tubes can walk out the crown if caps get loose!
  • 3 0
 I've completely confused myself on this.... That second air chamber has the potential to provide greater mid stroke support than volume reducers, but it depends on the difference in pressure between the + and ++ chambers. In the example in the article where its 65 PSI (lets say 66.6 for ease) in the + and 100 PSI in the ++, the ++ chamber will start providing a force at roughly 33% travel (+ chamber has reduced in volume by 50%, so pressure has increased by 50% to 100 PSI). Volume reducers are unlikely to have any noticeable effect at this travel. If you increase the pressure in the ++ chamber it will increase the force once the ++ chamber starts taking effect, but it will start to take effect later in the travel, as the pressure in the + chamber will have to build up more, so the force at 33% travel could actually be less than with a lower ++ chamber pressure? But having said that, as soon as the ++ chamber starts moving, the volume in the + chamber will stop reducing, so perhaps it balances out and increasing the ++ chamber pressure wont lead to a decrease in force at 33% travel compared to a lower ++ chamber pressure. I'm starting to really agree that they should have called them A and B.....Can someone who understands it draw some lines as to whats going on with the force as it moves through it's travel??
  • 5 0
 Sounds like you've got a fair understanding of it.
Here's a similar air sprung fork with graphs and illustrations,

www.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-mattoc-pro-2-review-2016.html
  • 1 0
 @mtb-scotland: that's way better.
  • 1 0
 @riderseventy7 @mtb-scotland: that's great thank you both, I'll have a look in more detail later. I also found the ERA user manual on EXTs website with some graphs in it. Although increasing the ++ pressure doesn't delay the onset of mid stroke support as I thought it might, there do seem to be some pressure scenarios that lead to a abrupt change in gradient; I wonder if that could feel a bit weird as you go through the travel. I suppose that's where the ext tuning guide comes in to avoid things like that
  • 5 0
 Up until the + chamber reaches the pressure of the ++ chamber, the fork behaves as if it has volume spacers (the size of the ++ chamber), since the ++ chamber isn't dynamic during that time. Once the two chambers have equal pressure, then they behave like a single chamber with a floating barrier in the middle.

If you look at boundary limits, you could start with + and ++ chambers at same pressure, which would act like a fork with no volume spacers and it would behave like a single chamber throughout the entire stroke. With very very high pressure in the ++ chamber, then it would behave as if it has one large volume spacer (i.e. the + chamber never reaches the ++ chamber during compression).

So there is potential to tune for significant small bump compliance without as much ramp-up as you get when you pack a fork full of volume spacers.
  • 2 0
 "the volume in the + chamber will stop reducing" - it will _slow down_ reducing in volume, but it won't stop completely. Maybe that will help you conceptualize it.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: perfect, thanks
  • 3 0
 With its turbo interfaced deluxe super shafting technology and hybrid outlet capacitating nextgen valving system and eternologic tuning development this fork will leave you more confused than britain attempting brexit during a pandemic but you still need them cause its more expensive than the rest so it MUST be better?!
  • 3 0
 A few weeks ago the internet told me I needed a fork that "ploughed through anything". Now it's OK for a fork to just "feel good". Totally confused now.... We need an article with timed runs... Same bike, same travel e.g. 160, and just swapping out the forks. Can't wait :-)
  • 1 1
 I can’t tell if you’re joking.
  • 3 0
 It's an interesting idea. The air shaft speed starts at zero relative to the already moving lowers unit so that when the air-shaft begins moving it has all of the velocity of the lowers already applied to it to break the spring seal friction. Additionally, the air shaft and piston is decoupled from the lowers by the coil, so if the fork is compressing and bounces off the ground the springs will both extend but the coil will absorb the momentum of the air shaft when the fork touches back down.
  • 7 1
 In an Era of new forks that looks sEXTy
  • 11 1
 Let me tell you a Storia 'bout a man who paid an Arma and a leg in this new Era of EXTreme mountain bike suspension....
  • 3 0
 @TheLoamDeranger: he said let me take a minute just sit right there, whilst i pull up a pew on my SDG Bell Air
  • 6 0
 Manitou IRT + RockShox Charger RC (Fox GRIP?)
  • 7 0
 Bro, exactly! IRT for upper air chamber and that little coil at the bottom reminds of MARS system that Manitou used in 2013--2014. Maybe after 2015 reorganisations in Manitou and RST some engineers were recruted by EXT and here we are.
  • 1 0
 Much closer to GRIP2 (spring-backed IFP, with HSC, LSC, & LSR), than Charger RC (bladder, LSC(?) only, & LSR)
  • 2 1
 @just6979: charger RC uses IFP, but it´s completely different to either of those...
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: There are actually a few dampers called "Charger RC", some with bladder, some with IFP. But either way, the IFP one is very close to the GRIP and EXT's as far the IFP portion is concerned.
  • 1 1
 @just6979: IFP is IFP, it only compensates for volume expansion causes by damper shaft. Even if they used exactly the same IFP (which they don´t) their performance would be miles apart.
  • 1 0
 The way the coil spring is used is veeery similar to the way it is constructed in the dt swiss f535
  • 5 0
 so for piece of mass produced in china fox you can get made in house EXT?? sounds good
  • 8 2
 No 27.5? Don’t care. Next
  • 6 0
 My days of early adopting for big bucks are over.
  • 5 1
 Thanks for letting us know.
  • 2 0
 I'm an incredibly average rider with little understanding of the technical aspects of suspension design. I went from a RS Motion Control (which was an average fork) to a Charger 2 which was noticeably better, but only slightly. To now a DVO which has all the same characteristics described in this review. Eliminates chatter, etc. during climbing, very supple initial stroke, good mid-stroke support, good ramp at end of stroke.
  • 1 0
 Wjich charge2, rct3 or rc2?
  • 6 3
 So it has the same Air Spring as the Manitou Mattoc, but twice the price. And the Mattoc has a Hydraulic Bottom Out. Manitou just needs to step up to 36mm stanchions and invest in marketing.
  • 6 0
 Manitou Mezzer was released last year with 37mm stanchions
  • 7 0
 Mezzer also modified the size of the air chambers so they’re different in intent and performance vs. Mattoc. Mezzer is a very close competitor to this, though I imagine the fit & finish of the Era might be superior (it should be for the price!). Mezzer works great if you know how to set it up *cough*
  • 2 0
 I find these comments full of "my dad has an even bigger and better one" and "the price is all to high" quite sad......when you have probably not bothered reading the articles explaining the tech and how it is made, and stating that this is the best performing fork. So how did they make a telescopic fork work better?? How did they do it? Do you really think it is stuffed full with "old style" suspension design, and by luck stuffed it together by coincident? Read info and you probably see how much knowledge sits behind, how much design testing and comparing done, to find the best working. See that all material used only chosen for its performance properties, not by budget or profit. Look for the keywords in the articles "LESS FRICTION".
  • 1 1
 This thing is dripping with hypejizz though, every article has been fawning over it and regurgitating the messaging from EXT. Which is nothing new with a big product introduction, but all that "LESS FRICTION" you are excited about is a bit much in this case. It may be very good and deserve praise, but the over the top hype still sounds as ridiculous as it always does. EXT says on their own website that their special magic internals "guarantees zero stiction and super low friction" which is obvious bullshit as zero stiction is impossible, and super low friction is just hyperbole. While every fork manufacturer does things to reduce friction, this thing is supposed to have special DU bushings stuck down in the off the shelf X-Fusion lowers, and special oil. Considering that DU bushings are a very old and ordinary technology, even if EXT have a proprietary material spec to claim exclusivity, and a proprietary oil blend, the advantages would be minimal over the well developed DU bushings and modern oils everybody else making high end forks is using. I'll bet the real secret behind the performance is careful matching of bearing fit to stanchion size. This is a known way to make any fork feel significantly smoother if it wasn't spot on from the factory which is not exactly common due to the extra costs it involves in mass production. The extra money is paying for attention to detail as much or more than some secret low friction technology. The part that I do buy into more of the hype is the damper quality, I would expect them to be able to make a very good damper cartridge and would be disappointed if they didn't. So when you combine cherry picking some very good bits of existing proven technology, combining it with very good execution and excellent attention to detail, you can make an ordinary looking yet top level performing fork and justify a high price tag. The real test will be to see if the ones that don't end up in the hands of magazine reviewers are assembled to the same standards to justify the price to anyone willing to pay it.
  • 2 0
 @velodonata: In other word there is the sum of all that makes it so good. You tare it apart and make some of it stand out like nothing. Actually no manufacturer at least what I know of have taken it to this level.
  • 1 0
 @G1EXTStoria: Sure, every fork is the sum of its design, engineering, parts choices, and assembly quality. This one should benefit from a very high level of attention to all of those points, because it is very expensive for what it is on paper, next level $$$$ for sure. I don't see it being proportionately superior for the extra money, not even close. But the final gains are always the most expensive by far.
  • 1 0
 @velodonata: if it is worth it or not is a really big question in the bike industry. Is it worth it to buy a carbon wheelset with high end hubs for 1800USD? I am really sure the product will speak for itself.
  • 5 0
 I’ve been waiting for this to pair with my Storia V3
  • 6 4
 That would be an awesome set up if you have the budget! Otherwise try a Manitou Mezzer. It has the same internals
  • 6 0
 @stumphumper92: no, it doesn´t.
  • 3 14
flag stumphumper92 (Jul 30, 2020 at 8:02) (Below Threshold)
 @Mondbiker: Yes it does bitch. Look up the IRT. Same shit. Might not be exactly the same but it's the same idea...
  • 10 2
 @stumphumper92: yes, 3 air chambers are 3 air chambers, and 2 stanchions are 2 stanchions, therefore every single fork on the market (well, other than the lefty/linkage crap) is the same according to your logic, bitch.
  • 3 11
flag stumphumper92 (Jul 30, 2020 at 8:48) (Below Threshold)
 @Mondbiker: peepee poopoo caca. Cry about it
  • 10 0
 @stumphumper92: About you being idiot? That makes me laugh mate Big Grin
  • 4 0
 any more info on the tiny coil spring? how far into the travel does it have an effect over.
  • 3 0
 EXT has said it affects the stroke at sag, so I guess just the initial 15-20%
  • 3 0
 Yeah, I never could quite get rid of that feeling, that color is really the most important variable when judging a suspension fork.
  • 1 0
 I think there's a lot of merit to the larger damper piston. How much force a damper puts out is based on the pressure difference/drop between the two sides of the valve, as well as the working area. By going with a larger piston, you have more working area, and so your pressure drop across the valve can be a lot less for the same force. Having tuned automotive dampers in a previous life, the lower the pressure drop, the more supple and less harsh a damper feels.

Pretty clever air spring as well. The integrated coil spring reminds me of Manitou MARS spring on my Tower fork.

Still too $$$ for me. Installing that fork would double or triple the value of any one of my bikes.
  • 10 1
 High end dampers use smaller rebound/midvalve pistons because a smaller bore/shaft ratio means less flow through on compression which makes it easier to keep damping forces under control on the mid-valve.

The challenge with mid-valve is to get enough flow through it to not spike on fast impacts. A smaller piston (relative to shaft) reduces flow volumes and makes this easier.

Big rebound/mid-valve pistons are harder to make work. If they produce too much damping force at higher speeds then they suck in oil and air via shaft seal. Which means you need a vent hole at the top to let the excess oil and air back out. Which is exactly what Fox/Marzocchi have with GRIP.
  • 4 1
 @Dougal-SC: who in their right mind downvoted Dougal when he’s kind enough to explain things for us lay people? If what he says doesn’t make sense to you, I encourage you to learn more, know your resources, and reevaluate why you think he deserves a downvote. I for one think it’s pretty awesome that people like him are kind enough to share their understanding.
  • 2 0
 @erikkellison: Aww, thanks man.

I know how tribal this stuff gets though.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer have you spent time in any other good fork with a separate negative spring and a good damper, e.g. DVOs coil preloaded Diamond or the CC Helm with negative air chamber? If so can you compare the EXT with them? I have both those and compared to the similarly priced Charger 2.1 Pike Ultimate they offer the feel you describe and blow the Pike away. Better support, more control and still supple on top.

Just curious how much better the EXT is for ~1500 euros vs 899 for the DVO or Helm.
  • 1 0
 If you think Helm has great support and initial suppleness you need to try one with AWK.
  • 4 0
 Price is justifiable if the fork doesn't creek
  • 4 0
 What about if it Cane Creeks?
  • 5 1
 No 27.5" option and no 20mm axle?
  • 3 0
 Are these forks travel adjustable? Can I buy a 150 and increase or decrease the travel?
  • 3 0
 I must say, I really do like that lower crown design and think its smart as shit.
  • 1 0
 Yes so good. Traditional 1.5 press fits just have the wrong aspect ratio, especially with mfgs trying to eke out extra clearance.
  • 3 0
 I got a Storia V3 6 months ago and now they come up with that. My wallet is trembling ...
  • 2 0
 Mr. Mojo Rising.........as in Jim Morrison? Always new his death in France was fake...he just became a suspension guru in Italy?
  • 2 0
 Mojo Rising is in the UK. They work w/ EXT closely, like on the version of the Storia v3 that was specifically developed for the G1.
  • 4 0
 No hate for the weight? What's wrong with you PB weight weenies?
  • 1 0
 Ok, no doubt it smashes most stock forks.. I'd like to know how fork like this compares to lets say RS with Avalanche damper and AWK cartridge.. or any other spring and custom tuned damper upgrade in RS chassis.
  • 1 0
 I want to do that comparison, but I love my Avy 36 so much, I have little reason to. But man this fork looks awesome.
  • 1 0
 It is already something as a tuned fork as Ext do the storia custom fir their customers and it is high end as a oush 11-6 or avy woodie. They use tolerances and engeneering some tuners dream from. A runt/awk avy fork may be similar, but as the whole fork is made as one from the beginning with the same standard over the whole fork and some tech differs from avy. Thus I would assume the Era outperforms the tuned Fox. BUT you never know till you try ;-)
  • 1 0
 @bansaiman: EXT does NOT tune for the rider to the degree that Avalanche does. Owning 2 EXT dampers and 1 Avy damper, my experience maps on. It’s not that EXT is bad at all - they’re awesome! But they are not as custom as what you get from Craig.
I even tried to get my Storia customized for me when I bought v3, and was told “no” (essentially it’s tuned for bike (G1) and they thought that was sufficient).
You are right though, I won’t know unless I try! Maybe they nailed the stock tune for my weight, bike, trails, pedal choice, riding style, and height?!
  • 1 0
 @erikkellison:

I get your point.
But honestly, does craig really consider that much parameters?
2. It does not change that when the other fork does not have good tolerances and the only super part is the avy cartridge, it will not be on the same level as the era.

PS custom tuning is "only" shimstack Tuning anyway. That is nothing impossible or time consuming to do this on an ifp assisted cartridge .if ext should not offer that on an 1600 eurk fork.

But that would be a bummer at that price tag, I admit
  • 3 3
 Nice review. Now... time on the clock against RS and Fox please as that is all that really counts. Also a techy climb section comparison. Put the Push coil into a Lyrik too. Feels great but you are going slower
  • 1 7
flag jaame (Jul 30, 2020 at 1:37) (Below Threshold)
 Absolutely right Betsie. Put me on my Yari and I will beat the pants off my brother on an EXT ERA.
  • 2 0
 Looks awesome. I've seen the double air chamber before though...https://diazsuspensiondesign.com/runt
  • 10 3
 Manitou IRT since like 2015. Diaz was late to that party.
  • 2 0
 But Diaz fits other forks. @Dougal-SC:
  • 3 0
 @Dougal-SC: Diaz had the RUNT in 2012 and was for sale by 2014... FYI
  • 2 1
 @freeridejerk888: Yeah. Diaz followed on from SD Components (Aussie based). There was at least one other company doing similar drop-in dual chamber upgrades. I can't remember the name though.
  • 2 0
 @Dougal-SC: AWK from chickadeehill and one other Italian one I cannot remember the name either.
  • 4 0
 @dlstucki: Fox had two positive chambers in their TALAS in like 2005, around the same vintage as Marzocchi's Doppio and ATA systems which also featured the same things. Trek had DRCV (a self-equalizing equivalent) since like 2012 too. The Runt/AWK/IRT systems reintroduced those to the market after the other major manufacturers had ditched them. 99% of riders need simplicity in order to get a decent setup on their bike. More variables = more potential, but also higher probability of getting things out of whack.
  • 1 2
 @VorsprungSuspension: So 99% of riders are morons that couldn't be expected to handle a second positive air chamber? Those older systems were not quite the same and were overly complicated. Then they went the other direction and oversimplified it, and conveniently made it cheaper to manufacture, too. The people that don't want to have to make changes that involve opening up their fork are often riding around with the wrong number of volume spacers instead. IRT seems like a pretty good middle ground, it's simple and light and not that hard to set up. The Runt/AWK/EXT version is basically the same thing but designed to work with a dimple style self equalizing negative spring.
  • 1 1
 98% of people cannot set up suspension properly. That is very very true @velodonata:
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension:

But you as well besides two posituve chambers the drcv as few in common with a floating piston using Awk and the likes. When the first chamber comoressed part opened the second chamber and fomnected both whicch took out the progression and let it kack even more midsupport as suddenly there was one large chamber without dynamic size, referring to the secobd chamber. Besides the second chamber did not have a 1.5 - 2.1 higher pressure than the main positive chamber but a similar or same oressure to the first one which eid not help the performance neither. Those forks dove very strong
  • 1 0
 @velodonata:

It is not a good middkeway, it is simply far hetter and superior to tokens that only rise the end progression until it rises in earlier parts of the stroke and you earlier start to hit the endprogression wgich is rather harsh and not really comparable e to the more linear double air chambers, not in theory and especially not in real life ride feel. Tokens are the more simple and worse version of awk etc
  • 1 0
 EXT asked me to write a list of everything I look for in a fork, so I’ll take full credit for how it rides haha. Just can’t afford one Frown
  • 2 0
 Listen to the BikeRadar Podcast with Chris Porter pt.1 and 2 and you'll get it!
  • 4 0
 No 26" version?
  • 9 0
 Too expensive for kids bikes Razz
  • 3 1
 If Kazimer likes it this much than I'm in. And I'll be saving up, hoping they make a dh fork too.
  • 1 0
 Or at least a cartridge.
  • 5 0
 IRT Dorado.
  • 2 0
 @mammal: hold off on that Dorado. I have on good authority that a brand new Dorado is to arrive shortly with 37mm stanchions and upgraded internals.
  • 3 1
 @cueTIP: The silly virus has ruined everyones release schedules.
  • 1 0
 Aw this made my day. I’ve been waiting for another fork to pop up and theese guys really do some incredible stuff. Can’t wait for this to be readily available
  • 3 0
 wish they have support outside they head office
  • 3 0
 Hi, I just wanted to reach out, there is a US dealer and service center in Utah. They would be happy to assist you with any of your EXT needs!
  • 2 0
 Does look a bit vanilla. It doesn't scream EXT like their shocks do in their own steampunk way.
  • 4 0
 Looks "vanilla"? Not really: images.app.goo.gl/oNaQSGVQRGwbjStk6
  • 1 2
 $2500 cad for the fork. (alba distribution) Really? Come on. Looks amazing but they ll soon realize they ll have to lower the price close to the competition if they want to sell this thing. Dvo performance prob comes very close to this at half the price
  • 3 4
 I bet this is an amazing fork.. and super pricey.. I'm no suspension expert but hasn't DVO has pretty much already made this with their Diamond D1 -> air sprung with OTT coil? We've got 3 Diamond's in our garage and wouldn't trade for anything purely air sprung in the future.
  • 8 3
 OTT has nothing in common with this, why people cannot grasp what OTT does is beyond me, it´s just preload for negative coil spring people, nothing magical at all.
  • 2 1
 @Mondbiker: Do the popular offerings from Fox, Rockshox (ie. 36 and Lyrik) also have a coil inside somewhere? I know the DVO does - and IMO offers superior ride characteristics. This is an honest question - I stated I am not a suspension expert..
  • 2 9
flag Mondbiker (Jul 30, 2020 at 8:05) (Below Threshold)
 @CDT77: Well, if you are not expert maybe you should study more about basics, like what is positive and negative spring, what they do etc. Almost every suntour fork has coil negative, just like DVO. It´s nothing special or any better than well designed negative air chamber.
  • 4 1
 @Mondbiker: What do I need to study any of that for? I ride bikes. I don't build suspension. I don't necessarily need / want to be an expert on the fine points of suspension mechanics. I am simply stating that DVO also has a coil & rides well - as does this fork.. and I asked if the others (Fox, Rockshox) do - you didn't answer? Sometimes I get the feeling ppl on here post on this forum more than they actually ride...
  • 2 11
flag Mondbiker (Jul 30, 2020 at 8:37) (Below Threshold)
 @CDT77: why do you feel the need to comment on something you don´t understand? Serious question. And this is really basic stuff nothing I would call "fine point of suspension mechanics". I did answer who else uses the same tech, pretty much the most budget brand of suspension out there that coincidentally makes DVO stuff, but unlike them they actually offer different spring rates for different rider weight instead of using preload (ott) to compensate.. You still think it´s high tech solution?
  • 5 0
 Look up manitou Mars spring
  • 10 0
 @Mondbiker: Holy smokes man.. I asked a question in the first post and further qualified the nature of that question by stating I wasn't a suspension expert... I then made a subjective statement on my 1st hand experiences with DVO's Diamond D1. I didn't suggest it was a high tech solution - I asked another question specifically re Fox and Rockshox which you left unanswered and deviated to derogatory remarks re Suntour - and again bashing DVO for some reason... Strange stuff my man.. get out and go for a ride maybe..
  • 2 0
 @Mondbiker: Had your coffee this morning sir?!
  • 2 1
 @Mondbiker:

This guy .... Serious h***on for this fork ....
Gets upset when someone challenges it .... As I noticed in another subthread.

From what I can tell .... There are far better options, that also have way better access to great customer service.

And price! .... Yikes ....

Mezzer is the best .... Fight me.
  • 4 2
 @norcohavocdirtjumper: Mezzer is great fork for sure, never questioned it and would be my choice if I was shopping for SC fork.
  • 1 2
 @Timo82: I don´t drink coffee in the morning
  • 2 0
 Modified my Fox 36 with RUNT and MRP Fullfil. 3 independent air chambers to dial in.
  • 4 1
 With some flex and creaking
  • 1 1
 @Jcolis1904: Flex, possibly, but no creaking
  • 2 1
 $2500....that is a lot of money for a new to market fork.

As others have said.....looks a lot like the internals of a Manitou , just at triple the price.
  • 2 0
 Avalanche has sorted all my problems out... and im still running marz 66 ti
  • 2 2
 Bummer yeah those lowers looks exactly the same as x fusion trace 36....I hope in wrong but that’s sucks if they are and that gives me no confidence in their shit. Always gotta skimp on something.....
  • 2 0
 You think small volume production forks would pay for their own mould 150000dollars? it´s what inside that counts and it sure as shit isn´t the same as what´s inside trace (not that there is anything worse about trace than 36/lyrik or whatever)
  • 2 0
 @Mondbiker: I was hoping they would for the price!
  • 3 0
 take my money
  • 2 0
 Can I have costum tunes on it?
  • 4 1
 what a beautiful fork
  • 2 1
 Would you call an X-Fusion Trace a beautiful fork?
  • 4 0
 @Dougal-SC: Of course. I love all black ones except rockshox.
  • 2 0
 And there is a coil version in the way! Imagine!
  • 2 0
 Want! Can’t afford, but want!
  • 3 2
 It's heavy as coil and pricey. And coil version is on the way. What's the sense of this?
  • 4 0
 Seems like minimizing break away force and small bump sensitivity based on reading the article.
  • 1 2
 @Hill-Seeker: Well, looking at their own graph I'm very doubtfull they managed to anyway lower the breakaway force.
p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/2020/07/28/max_Photo_17_338708.jpg
  • 2 1
 @fluider: then you must look closer. hint-it has something to do where the curve starts...
  • 1 0
 @Hill-Seeker: Which break away are you referring to? The outer seal will break when the coil compresses, the inner seals will break when the shaft moves.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: On that graph it starts at the exact same place as the "standard air spring"...
  • 1 1
 @just6979: in that graph they can because it looks like graph of air spring part only, not coil part of it. No air spring starts from 0, coil spring without preload does.
  • 1 1
 @Mondbiker: Well, they're comparing it to an air spring not a coil. Why even mention coil? They claimed to reduce breakaway compared to a "standard air spring", not compared to a coil...
  • 2 1
 @just6979: because in the first XX millimeters of travel this IS coil fork, duh.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: Not according to that chart. No difference in the starting force...
  • 1 0
 @just6979: try doublecheck if that isn´t what I said 2 replies ago.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: There is no scale, we have no idea if that graph starts at zero.
  • 2 0
 Looks good on screen, but is it better than a linkage fork?
  • 1 0
 I gutted out the pikes replaced with vorasprung smashpot an another option l can say balances with the Stora V3
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: any chance you could compare this to a Lyrik or Marz Z1 equipped with an avalanche cart and a Diaz Runt?
  • 3 1
 Are they making a 27.5 version?!
  • 1 0
 Confused about the creaking.... ive not had any on my 36's.... what am I missing?
  • 2 2
 You're not missing anything, except for the vocal minority who doesn't understand that manufacturing it all about tolerances and compromise.

I've also never had a creaking CSU out of (lemme see here...) 4 Fox CSUs, even a Float 32 that ran at 150mm for most of its life (now down to a reasonable 120mm on a hardtail). If I count my usual riding crew, we're at 0 creaks out of maybe 15 forks that I can think of.

Fox has sort of kind of acknowledged, if you take replacements under warrantee as an acknowledgement, that there has been at least a minor issue with tolerances at some point, but it's obviously not as big a deal as some people would have you think.
  • 1 0
 I see the 2021 meta am this thing is laced up to let’s hear that review too ????
  • 1 0
 Good to know there's a cheap alternative ???? jesus €1500 there are complete bikes that are cheaper
  • 1 0
 I guess if you have the money, you have the money, but it costs as much as a complete bicycle should in my opinion.
  • 1 0
 What are the A2C numbers?
  • 5 0
 140mm : 552mm
150mm : 562mm
160mm : 572mm
170mm : 582mm
  • 1 0
 @bugzju: thank you.
  • 2 1
 That price looks like it is without tax.
  • 1 0
 Very cool. Can't wait to get mine!
  • 3 2
 $1700 for a "promising" fork?
  • 3 1
 EXTra pricey
  • 1 4
 Thanks the gods they do not have a 27.5! At that price, close to $1800 at current rates, I rather not have the option of buying this fork ... not to mention the usual gashing that appears on these pages: apparently the reviewer has never used a coil fork? Or a coil conversion? Put a PUSH ACS3 in any old air fork and you'll have the “that's ridiculous” moment ...
  • 2 1
 Do you really think with just take an aftermarket upgrade would make it work as good as the EXT? Read what Mike Kazimer states in his comment. He have tried the most including push modified ones and it does not get better than the EXT Era.
  • 1 0
 Anyone know if they are planning a rear air shock?
  • 2 3
 No, why would they want to create something worse than they are offering now?
  • 2 0
 @Mondbiker: They have made air shocks for various motor sports applications so I am not sure why they would not build one as a way to expand their MTB customer base. Especially if it could be used in XC and other bikes with high leverage ratios that require very high spring rates. If they feel they can make a better air shock than what is currently on the market then why wouldn't they?
  • 1 4
 @mixmastamikal: because even the best air shock is still worse than best coil shock?
  • 1 0
 @mixmastamikal: that is true, I mean I read somewhere that EXT was the first to make an air shock for formula racing? So yes they have the knowledge in that department too.
  • 1 0
 Wow! Looks like these EXT's have the ability to blow up the interwebz too
  • 1 0
 Avalanche DH Racing also does hybrid coils, which feel excellent.
  • 2 0
 Avalanche hybrid coils has nothing to do with the coil used in the EXT air version. AVA hybrid coil uses coil on top of the damper cartridge with the air spring in it`s original state on the other side, working in parallel.
  • 2 2
 the EXT That's Ridiculous
  • 1 1
 so... is it better than a fox 38 or a zeb?
  • 2 0
 obviously better air spring than a ZEB. for others comparisons, I'd need to try one.
  • 1 0
 ACS3
  • 1 0
 Is 27,5 dead?
  • 1 0
 27.5" x 180mm please
  • 1 2
 I will wait for the coil version
  • 1 2
 How does this compare to a Push ACS3 in a Fox fork?
  • 1 3
 Signs up for a dentistry diploma.......
  • 2 4
 So its a user adjustable DRCV fork then,
  • 3 0
 Pretty sure DRCV opened the extra chamber based on position (around 50%?), not pressure. That's why you have to cycle it past halfway when inflating, instead of just the ~20% to reach the normal bypass port.
  • 2 0
 @just6979: yep, that's what I meant by user adjustable, dependant on the ratio of + to ++ pressures the point at which the second volume comes into effect can be altered. Unlike drcv which was fixed
  • 3 0
 DRCV worked by opening up another chamber to increase volume and reduce final ramp-up. Which is kinda the opposite.
  • 3 0
 @Dougal-SC: Surely when the + chamber pressure (moving through the travel increases the + pressure) matches the ++ pressure and it comes into play it just becomes a larger volume spring at the ++ pressure, effectively reducing the ramp up an flattening the spring curve. That's the same as DRCV as the second chamber was at a higher pressure as it equalized when about 50% into the travel.

Good talking this stuff thorough though
  • 1 2
 Marzocchi for me
  • 1 0
 Alert: username recorded in "The Book" for future "processing".
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