This season we've seen a wave of new long travel 29ers hit the market, and by the look of things there are even more on the way. Pivot's new Firebird 29 is the latest entry into this burgeoning category, with 162mm of rear travel and a 170mm fork up front. It was designed to take on extra-technical enduro race courses, or for knocking out laps in the bike park, with modern geometry numbers inspired by the Phoenix, Pivot's DH bike.
The Firebird 29 may have been created with a strong focus on the descents, but Chris Cocalis, Pivot's founder, says that they wanted to make a bike that was more than just a monster truck. To accomplish that, they worked to keep the weight down, and to ensure that the bike still remained manageable on the climbs.
Firebird 29 Details• Intended use: enduro / park
• Wheel size: 29" or 27.5+
• Rear wheel travel: 162mm
• Carbon frame
• 65° head angle
• 431mm chainstays
• Frame weight ( w/ shock): 7 lb
• 12 x 157mm rear spacing
• Sizes: S-XL
• 10 year frame warranty
• Price: $5,099 - $9,199 USD
• Colors: sandstorm, steel blue
•
www.pivotcycles.com,
@pivotcycles Frame Details From a distance, the Firebird 29 does resemble its smaller-wheeled sibling, but there are several key differences. Visually, the most noticeable is the shock mounting position and the shape of the swingarm – the shock is now mounted to the downtube, and the swingarm is less curvy and more angular.
In order to accomplish all of their design goals, Pivot reworked the dw-link suspension layout compared to the 27.5 version, and made the switch to Super Boost Plus spacing. Yes, it's time to poke that hornet's nest again – just like the Switchblade, and the
Trail 429, the Firebird has 12 x 157mm rear spacing paired with a BB92 bottom bracket. According to Pivot, going with Super Boost allowed them to give the Firebird short, 431mm chainstays and a generous amount of tire clearance, along with increased wheel and frame stiffness over what would have been possible if they'd stuck with 12 x 148mm spacing.
The Firebird 29 still uses a dw-link suspension design, with two short links connecting the swingarm to the front triangle, but the upper link is now attached to the front of the seat tube, and the shock is driven by a mini-clevis. The suspension has more of a rising rate than the Firebird 27.5, although running a coil shock still isn't fully endorsed due to that mini-clevis mount. The design works well for air shocks, but it can potentially create side loads that can cause unwanted flex in a coil shock due to the reduced bushing overlap.
Coil sprung shocks may not be recommended, at least until Pivot completes further testing, but the frame is dual crown approved, and that 1.5” headtube is nearly identical to what you'd find on a downhill bike. Of course, with 162mm of rear travel it's best to avoid going too wild – 180mm is the maximum recommended fork travel.
Not surprisingly, the Firebird 29 isn't front derailleur compatible, but all of the bikes do come with Pivot's own upper chainguide as a standard feature. There's also full-length tubing on the inside of the frame for easy cable routing, a BB92 bottom bracket, and metric shock spacing.
There's no room for a water bottle inside the front triangle, but that's not for lack of trying. According to Chris Cocalis, “If we magically could have fit it in there we would have, but the kinematics and the whole platform of the bike came first. Keeping the frame weight down, keeping the bike compact, low standover, and the ability to run a long dropper used up all the space.”
Geometry The Firebird's geometry can easily be adjusted to accommodate different wheel sizes or to get it as slack and low as possible. The simplest way to make a change is via the flip chip in the upper shock link. That allows for a .5° change to the head angle, along with a 6mm bottom bracket height change.
Pivot also make a 17mm lower headset cup that can be installed in order to keep the bottom bracket height from getting
too low when the bike is set up with 27.5+ wheels (27.5 x 2.5” is the smallest recommended tire width in the Plus configuration). Want to run that cup with 29” wheels? Go for it – that'll result in an even slacker head angle, somewhere in the neighborhood of 64.2°.
In keeping with current geometry trends, Pivot increased the Firebird 29's reach by approximately 10mm when compared to the 27.5” version, while steepening the seat angle by .5°, to 74.5° in the low geometry setting. With four sizes in the linuep, riders from 5'4” to 6'7” should be able to find a bike that fits them.
Specifications There are three build kit categories –
Team,
Pro, and
Race – with a Shimano and SRAM drivetrain option in each. Prices for the Firebird 29 range from $5,099 for the Race XT build, which has a Fox 36 Grip fork, DPX2 shock, Shimano SLX brakes, and an XT rear derailleur, and go all the way up to $9,199 USD for the Team XX1 kit, which is fully decked out with Reynolds Blacklabel carbon wheels, a SRAM XX1 drivetrain, and Guide Ultimate brakes. All of the bike are spec'd with forks that have 44mm of offset.
I've ridden in Moab, Utah, countless times over the years, but I still remember my first time hitting up the Porcupine Rim trail – I was on a scandium XC hardtail, fully clad in spandex, and with my seat sky high. I must be getting soft, because nowadays I wouldn't want to go anywhere near it without at least a few inches of rear suspension. It's not the steepest or most technical trail, but it is unrelenting, with miles of sandstone ledges and lumps. All of those square edged hits make it a prime proving ground for a bike like the Firebird 29 – if there was ever a place that big wheels and a little extra travel make a lot of sense, this is it.
The day's ride was mainly downhill, thanks to a van ride to the top, but there was a short bit of climbing before the descending really began. It wasn't much of an ascent, but it did provide a peek at the Firebird's climbing abilities. It's not going to be able to go head-to-head with something like the Trail 429 when it comes to nimbleness, but it does pedal well, with minimal bobbing even with the Float X2 in the open position.
Once that brief climb was over, it was time to bomb down through the desert landscape. It wasn't long before I felt at home on the Firebird, and I found myself sprinting into rocky sections of trail and trying to stay off the brakes as long as possible. There's enough stability and suspension travel that it was more of a mental battle – the bike took it all in stride, but whether my brain could process all of the trail data at that pace was another matter. For the most part it worked out, except for one flat tire, the result of a knife-shaped rock slashing my sidewall. The Firebird has a snappiness that not all bikes in this category possess – it'll plow straight through the rough stuff, but when it comes time to toss in a few pedal strokes it's extremely responsive.
This is just a brief first look, not a review, so I'm not going to dive in too deep, but I do have a pick and a pan to mention. My pan is regarding the Shimano XT 4-piston brakes, specifically the finned brake pads. Those pads rattled incessantly against the caliper on rough sections of trail – if this was my bike the first thing I would do is swap them out for the non-finned version, heat management be damned.
As for my pick, it's the Fox 36 Float GRIP2. It's a seriously impressive fork, especially the way that it can handle repeated extremely hard impacts without losing its composure – my hands weren't sore in the slightest after all that trail smashing, which is a good sign that everything was working properly.
The days are long and bike park season is in full swing, so we'll be getting a Firebird 29 in for a long-term review in order to really see how it stacks up in this category. Stay tuned.
The only honest brand has been Hope, droping the price of their beauty by 2k€. Still 7k€, but good point for the effort.
If you don't think it is worth spending 5, 7 or 9 grand on a bike then don't spend that, it is as simple as that but don't act like there is no point in those bikes existing, they are making the bikes you do buy better.
I like how there is no mention of what hubs come on the pivot builds. I can only imagine they're terrible. On a 5k bike, it is pretty unacceptable to not even make mention that they're Formula or novatec.
In any case, except if you are a pure racer/very skilled rider, there is no point in buying a bike 8k$.
90% of the riders here on Pinkbike or on the trails would have enough for their skills level (and difficulty of their trails) with a 3/4 K$ bike. Thing is that it's "relevant choice vs desire". I read a good article in a french MTB magazine regarding this topic, I found it really accurate.
If anything, top end prices are about the same but what you get for your dollar is thru the roof. Bikes today, of all price points, are so much better than what they used to be. Jerrys falling off their fancy bikes is also nothing new. There's just more of them now because there are more mountain bikers in general.
Sure, super boost will cost a bit more due to availability of parts. But yeti is doing theirs with a fox transfer vs. KS.
It gets worse when you look at the SB5.5 GX Eagle bike vs the Pro XO1 from Pivot. Almost the same group, M1900 wheels on the Yeti vs m1700 on the pivot. Guide R vs XT is fanboy debatable. Transfer vs KS, Yeti wins. Pivot gets the nod on an XO cass and House carbon bar.
However, you're looking at $7,499 vs $5,400. $2,100! That's 5 cassette replacements or enough cash to buy the replacement parts to make the SB 5 better than the pivot.
It is cool that pivot does offer nicer wheelsets, however, those are gravy on top of any of those prices, so for this point I'm making, they don't really apply.
If you'd prefer I kick it in the dick using another brand, just please tell me so i don't waste my time.
For fun, Orbea's Rallon was just re-done and has been pretty well received by everyone so far who's reviewed it.
www.orbea.com/us-en/bicycles/rallon-m10-18
$4,999- M1900 with same suspension, RF post and full GX group with XT brakes. Pivot is bringing a Xo1 DR and SLX brakes to the party with a $5,499 price tag. Not to mention, no mention of the hub spec on the pivot, so crappy?
www.businessinsider.com.au/business-clichs-to-cut-from-your-vocabulary-2014-12
Don't confuse the lack of availability with excess in demand. They're in a fortunate spot where they've sold everything but wait until they sit on product that doesn't sell and see how if affects them.
Your wrong.
There is very little progress in oem spec’d technoligies.
Carbon isnt new, the dampers arent new, the brake tech isnt new. Super boost is not new (12x150/157) Lockout isnt new, fast engagment hubs arent new, hydrofoing isnt new, suspension linkage isnt new, geometry is hardly new (they are all still emulating spexialized sx trails, except with bigger wheels) foam in tires isnt new(but it is stupid still) short fork offset isnt new. I could go on.
High and low speed compression isnt new, still rarely offered. Better tech though. Oem’s just being cheap.
Talas and other travel adjust arent new. Just being phases out and bad mouthed slanderously to pinch pennies and make it easier for the promoted bean pickers of central california to put together a shitty fox fork for you idiots.
Procore is new. Carbon rims are new. 27.5 is new. One peiece carbon bar stem is new.
The bike industry is practicing apples iphone slow constant “new” hype release style. While actually progressing very little, holding close the best cards from the consumer market, and even racers.
Most of you are too dumb of consumerist to realize that your actually buying the same or cheapened crap for a higher price.
They are not offering more, just charging more; as the sport becomes saturated with middle age know it all duechebags who bought a mtb instead of a shiny harley for their mid lige “revival”.
Doctor bro will pay more, and buy his whiney 12yr old the newest shit before kiddo sells it to buy pot when he moves on to cars.
Yeti changes their sus more than almost any manifacture
Can you give any comment since it's the best bike you have ever owned?
Show me a bike from 2000 that retailed for around $2,500 and show me a bike from 2018 with the same retail and tell me again how you haven't gotten more bike for your money now.
Even in the last 10 years what has gotten significantly better is the quality of suspension that is widely available. While external features/adjustments offer the same basic idea, the quality of what goes on inside the fork or rear shock is leaps & bounds better now than what was commonly available in 2008. Every fork and rear shock is better now than then.
If you think a Progressive 5th Element shock rides just as well as a DHX2 or TTX, then you just aren't paying attention.
YT recommends running an additional token and lower pressure. They spec the X2 on the top bike and frankly I think not spec’ing the same shock on their other bikes was a dick move. I’d only assume a more adjustable/linear air shock or coil will provide a level of suppleness and mid-level support that the reviewer was seeking. Thankfully the bike is cheap enough to allow for a $500 upgrade and still be thousands cheaper.
As for full suspension bikes under $1,000... those have always been problematic. If you take into consideration inflation, prices are 33% higher today than in 2004- $900 USD in 2004 is about $1,200 today. So if your coworker paid the same amount as you did, for sure their new bike is going to have a worse spec on it.
As for you asking why bikes aren't as cheap as TVs... because there are about 1,000,000 times more TVs produced than bikes. Economies of scale.
The pathetic numbnuts bike industry woth their slow, overly expensive, small incrimnetal improvements; designed for the daft, slow, and blowhard media crowd.
Gimme travel adjust, different geometry options like long chainstay length, short seat tubes. Progressive spv was dope as implemented for shocks. Good tech is killed off.
vimeo.com/120566398
"Water bottle"
"Price"
"Hub standard"
"Enduro 29er"
It's like groundhog day in here.
I think you've been snorting too much fecal.
Old Man Tan
It's so it matches your desert sand tacoma
"Ah...." You'll say. "I see now."
what's with the tiny rotors?
Chris Cocalis, “If we magically could have fit [a water bottle] in there we would have, but the kinematics and the whole platform of the bike came first. Keeping the frame weight down, keeping the bike compact, low standover, and the ability to run a long dropper used up all the space.”
Mike Levy : "Personally, I would never buy a bike that couldn't carry at least one bottle, no matter how good it of a bike it is."
www.pinkbike.com/news/review-commencals-new-meta-am-29-team.html#cid2003363
Too bad Chris, next time ditch the kinematic, weight, etc... questions and focus on what pinkbike editors really stands up for...
bwhahahahahahahahah
Hydration is essential apparently.
Nice try, tho.
www.adamsandlerinterviews.com/photo-album/otto-the-caddie-covert-with.html
You see it isn't about having to run a pack as an option to a bottle, a pack just f*cks you over from multiple angles.
pros:
- flip chip
- 3 year longer warranty
- 17mm longer travel
cons:
- Supa Boost™
- press fit BB
- no water bottle inside frame
- shorter dropper
- 1lb heavier
- no frame only option ($5k is a lot for SLX)
However, I'm not sure the Ripmo is a great comparison to this bike, Ripmo is only 140mm rear vs 160mm rear on the Firebird. I think the Ripmo is more of an all arounder where the Firebird is a downhill/enduro race bike.
If you want to provide a snapshot of what this thing can do in Moab-how about a Mag 7-Portal test. Some mellow stuff to see if the bike is Novocain numb on less burly trails, a lung busting techy climb to see if it sucks uphill, and a descent (after you turn off the rim) on Portal that leaves the average trail bike outgunned.
Or (nearby) a Lunch Loops evaluation-less skilled magazine editors can keep it mellow, but rippers can actually vouch for how good this bike is (where it's supposed to be good) on Holy Cross or Free Lunch.
All I learned from this review was that this is an expensive bike with a new rear hub standard. If Pivot is making big claims, they should have allowed reviews on big terrain.
Then again, dentist fanboys will still buy them and ride giggle trails (or walk Enchilada-f#@%#rs).
Yeah ,the frame weighs 3lbs more
It’s also crazy how quickly this reduced offset thing has taken over to the point where it’s not even newsworthy.
chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/nocomment/bcaffknecaohmingfdfimlbllnebpepe?hl=en-GB
I completely agree with you on this. Only Norco seem to give this any consideration. And I'd love to know which size the rear centre / CS length is optimised for. Each extreme gets the raw end of the deal. For me at XL I've ruled out bikes with fashionably short CS lengths.
The upcoming Bold Unplugged has an interesting take on this with flip chips in chainstays. So there is some cheap solution to this, at least for Horst link designs.
A good thing is that the industry has started to take notice. Unfortunately some have skipped the opportunity and there probably won't be any change for the next 3-5 years in their otherwise very interesting products, such as this Pivot. What would be more than welcome, and I hope that someone from Pivot reads this, is that the next year when they introduce a 2020 model instead of just following Santa Cruz' year old color pallet and some change in component specs they introduce a meaningful upgrade like different chainstay length for different frame size. This would be the real and meaningful model year upgrade.
It's a stunning looking bike and I'm sure it rides well but having ridden and not enjoyed some bikes with a shorter CS I'm happy to keep them longer.
- SC Nomad
- new Commencal 29
- this
How's that?!?
Saint fined pads do the same, funny how they are not aware of this issue. Every bike even DH sled which has those is audible even by spectators and cameras around the track. Really shame. Only solution is to buy older generation of pads (br-m810) or 3rd party.
By dremeling the outer fins on the pad. The fins that come in contact with the caliper.
No annoying rattle
Ive also noticed on a few pro bike checks that if Saints are involved often the finned pads are replaced with non finned pads. Even on Shimano sponsored riders..........what does that say?!
Going from a Switchblade, to a yeti 5.5 this was very apparent. The Pivot climbed up square edges with zero effort, absorbing them like they weren’t there, while the yeti basically feels like a hard tail, requiring me to muscle up ledges. I’m used to it now but I definitely prefer a more compliant suspension to a platform that damn near locks out while pedalling.
Exactly but first pivot took 4 weeks to warranty my turkeybird, after charging me $760 for a rear crash replacement. Junk small bike company. When you can't run a coil or air shox on a bike that is over 170mm of traveling think you need to hit the drawing board. Everyone of my friends fox air shows blew.
It's why the upper link is shorter and fixed to the shox body.
10 years warranty not bad
The lower link has bearings or bushing?
We both got the same marketing degree, but me, I decided to move to Boise and have been in a low wage trap ever since (that was 2002). So HE rides whatever he wants. Me, I have a Marin Nail Trail 6 HT now. Good life choices vs. not soo good! Sorry to "derail" this thread.
Also will it crack like all the other 27.5 ones did?
I'll just leave this here.
salsacycles.com/bikes/horsethief/2017_horsethief_carbon_gx1
Yeah, the linkages look similar, but they just aren't the same.
Yeah, this bike is a long(ish) travel 29er, but with 22mm less suspension, a full degree in head angle (before that lower headset that you use with the 27.5+ makes it even slacker when used in 29), and a clearly different design goal, you can just leave it right there.
@mikekazimer: you guys gonna do a comparison on all these 160 29’ers?
Those pads rattled incessantly against the caliper on rough sections of trail – if this was my bike the first thing I would do is swap them out for the non-finned version, heat management be damned.
Result : maybe u just dont go fast enough to hear the rattle !
I dont get it why you would bis this Bike instead? More expensive, doesnt Go with coil shocks and Super-(Bullshit)-Boost.
You get the one that appeals the most to you, and the one that makes you want to go ride more.
Pivot: Nailed It!
Banshee Rune V1 and V1.5 had chainstays 435mm and 440mm, and these frame HAD tireclearance problems with 26" tires in muddy orgies. There's no way Firebird29 will be okay with slicky mud packed with small gravel stones. And you can see that 29" tire almost touches the swingarm.
ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb16018671/p6pb16018671.jpg
1.5" headtube because of option to use dualcrown? On enduro races? Or to use tiny 1 1/8" stem otherwise. One of the reasons I don't want to get rid of my old Rune is the 1.5" warhead tube in place of headtube. That piece of alloy makes incredible stiffness to the frontend.
Coilshock and flex due to sideloads AND small bushing overlap? And they don't have this problem in other frames? And what about other manufacturers? And what about older frames where coilshock was subjected to high sideloads as well?
Commencal Meta AM29 has via clevis link similiarly leveraged you know what ... coil shock :-)
foto-thumbnails.mtb-news.de/cache/1200_auto_1_1_0/76/aHR0cHM6Ly9mc3RhdGljMS5tdGItbmV3cy5kZS92My8yMi8yMjgwLzIyODAzOTUtaDNiNTRza3NhbjR4LV9kc2MzMzYxLW9yaWdpbmFsLmpwZw.jpg
Now shut down your laptop and go ride your bike.
LOL, yeah sure forget all about how the bike performs (suspensions, frame, geometry) and how it looks just because you can't fit a 750ml bottle in it.
Next big debate: SUPER EXTRA BOOST saddles that are Spandex compatible haha
It´s a shame manufacturers doesn´t design a custom water botle to fit their frame like YT did on those days... apart they then can charge 30 bucks for each btotle... I can´t understand why today any manufacturer is ready to loose so much sales from start point...
What a wonderful time to be alive!
But it's a good thing there is different bike design on the market, as for myself, I'll stick with my water bottle compatible frame.
In any case, I find it very dumb to exclude a bike from a relevant choice just because it does not have a water bottle...Nobody would have ever considered a water bottle 3 years ago...
In one of the shots, the shock has a kashima shaft. In another photo, the shock has a black shaft. Did the dust change the color of the shaft as well? Only kidding. If I am mistaken about the dust being added for the photo shoot, then I humbly retract my prior comment about it being fake.
As an aside, I never shuttle my bike, so it looks odd to me to see dust cover the entire shaft of a rear shock. On my bike, there is always a mark of the dust wiper at some point up the shaft. Perhaps the dust on the entire shaft through me off.