First Ride: 2023 Propain Tyee

Apr 20, 2023
by Ralf Hauser  


Twelve years ago, Propain Bikes decided to build their first enduro bike. Without great expectations at the time, it not only marked a turning point for the brand in terms of recognition but led to the Tyee becoming their best-selling model to date. The 2023 Tyee, the eighth version, looks quite familiar at first look but offers a barrage of improvements in detail.

Situated between the Hugene and Spindrift, Propain didn't set out to reinvent the Tyee but to optimize in the right places. It's still meant to be a bike that doesn't turn climbs into a struggle – the aluminum version as much as the carbon one – but can take on challenging terrain with ease.

Propain Tyee CF Details
• Wheel size: 29"/Mix or 27.5"
• Rear wheel travel: 160mm
• Blend Carbon frame
• 64.5° head angle (160mm fork), 64.1° (170mm fork)
• Chain stays: 430mm (27.5" XS-M), 445mm (29"/Mix M-XL)
• Frame weight (w/o shock): 2,900g (size M)
• 12 x 148mm rear spacing
• Sizes: XS-M (27.5"), M-XL (29"/Mix)
• Colors: Deep Forest, Carbon Raw, Safari
• Price: from €3,599 to €8,244 (same for EUR and GBP)



Photo Nathan Hughes
The Tyee is also available as an aluminum version.

Tyee AL Details
• Blend Aluminum frame
• Frame weight (w/o shock): 3,400g (size M)
• Colors: Olive, Aluminum Raw, Venomblack
• Price: from $2,999 to $7,644 (same for EUR and GBP)
www.propain-bikes.com

Frame Details

Available as a full carbon or aluminum version, the Tyee's rear wheel travel still sits at 160mm. Propain is also holding true to their Blend Carbon and Blend Alloy material concepts.

For the CF version, they are mixing different kinds of carbon fibers at different locations on the frame to achieve various characteristics or address requirements for stiffness, flexibility, impact resistance, weight, strength or stress direction. One of the few points of criticism from the last generation's frame characteristics – a rather soft rear end – was countered by adding more tensile strength fibers, mainly in the chainstay area close to the bottom bracket. Since Propain designs their bikes with compliance in mind, they made sure that the rear end got about 10% stiffer laterally without affecting comfort too much.



Photo Nathan Hughes
Photo Nathan Hughes

Photo Nathan Hughes
Photo Nathan Hughes

With Blend Alloy on the AL versions, different alloys are combined in a single frame. For example, parts that don't need to be welded are made from 7075-T6 aluminum, which is difficult to weld but offers very high strength.

Looking at the frame's silhouette, the top tube is much thinner and provides more standover clearance. The down tube has decreased in volume somewhat, and is shaped in a trapezoid profile.

With added tire clearance at the rear triangle and the additional stiffness, the carbon frame actually gained about 100 grams in weight, depending on size, coming to 2,900g for size M 29". The story is different with the aluminum version, where they were able to save 300 grams, cutting the weight down to about 3,400g for size M 29".

Overall, the frames got stronger, featuring category 5 rating with unrestricted bike park use and they have survived even more load cycles – going further beyond 500,000 – on their own test machine than the older generation before. Depending on spec, full bike weights start at 13.8 kg (30.4 lb) for CF and 14.3 kg (31.5 lb) for AL.


photo
Internal cable routing through the headset via a special top spacer matched to a specific Sixpack stem.
photo
Spacers underneath can be clipped in from the sides to easily adjust height.

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New cable routing alongside the lower links.
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Mounts on the underside of the top tube for tools.

Love it, or more likely hate it, the new Tyee features integrated cable routing through the headset. Carbon frames exclusively so; the aluminum versions still also feature regular cable openings to have the option to route cables into the down tube on the side just behind the head tube.
Propain wasn't shy about mentioning that their first impression was that they hated the headset routing idea. But once they spent time with the system they couldn't help but notice the benefits: it looked clean, and because of the way the cables were routed ended up making no noise on the trail even without having to tie cables together, which was an aspect that they couldn't ignore.

In order to get rid of most of the disadvantages, Propain developed a special stem together with Sixpack to route the cables underneath through an exactly fitting molded composite spacer, as they wanted to avoid a solution that would have routed the cables through the stem. Available with 35 or 50mm length, it's CNC-machined in Germany and utilizes special spacers underneath that can be clamped from the sides, so you don't have to mess with the cables when altering ride height.

The entire unit is sealed as much as possible, and even if moisture should creep in Propain exclusively uses Acros stainless steel headset bearings for maximum longevity to try and counteract the one negative that's simply unavoidable – the hassle that if the bearing should need to be replaced you will have to take everything apart.

The stem/headset assembly with internal routing builds about 5mm higher than a version with regular headset top cap – if you prefer, you do have the option to use a regular stem in combination with an Acros headset top cap. The fork is equipped with plastic protection on the steerer so cables can’t damage the fork.

Cable routing throughout the rest of the frame has been thoroughly improved with the cables not being routed underneath the bottom bracket anymore but being neatly tucked away along the lower linkage. Attached to the linkage with some extra tabs, the cable doesn't kink or move much during suspension movement. Inside the frames, the cables are surrounded by foam covers to eliminate any possible noise.


photo
Swap between a 29" or 27.5" rear wheel without adjusting geometry.
photo
A custom brake adapter is mounted to the inside of the rear triangle ...

photo
... and it can be adjusted between 180 and 200mm rotor size.
photo
New softer material and air pockets keep the noise down.

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The chain protectors, especially the one on the lower side of the seat stay, are shaped inwards for added protection.
photo
Sixpack seat clamp with protective seal.

In that same regard, their chain and seat stay protectors feature a new softer TPR plastic material with better damping properties as well as air-filled nubs with an outward tilt to reduce chain vibrations and noise further.

Also new: the post mount brake mount has been tucked away into the rear triangle – mostly due to aesthetic reasons but leading to better transfer of braking forces into the frame as well. Plus, the custom adapter, which is attached to the frame via two rivets, can be simply adjusted for 180 or 200mm rotors.

Propain, at least at the moment, is the only company that uses stainless steel bearings from Acros throughout the entire frame. That's apart from their proven Dirt Shield – an extra seal on top of the bearings to shield them from dust, water, and dirt.

Nice detail: a Sixpack seat clamp with seal (also available aftermarket) further protects the inside of the frame. On the bottom side of the top tube you can now find mounting brackets for tools. Propain equipped an Acros Knockblock headset to limit the turning circle to 120 degrees and avoid possible damage to the bike in terms of a crash. Three new colors each for CF or AL are available. Logo and badge colors can be individualized.

Orders are open on April 20, 2023, and delivery takes place about six weeks after launch.

Photo Nathan Hughes
The aluminum version has the option to route the cables into the frame through the down tube.
Photo Nathan Hughes
The AL also places the brake mounts inside the rear triangle.

Photo Nathan Hughes
All the details from CF are featured with AL.
Photo Nathan Hughes


Geometry

Frame sizing has been shuffled up, and an XS size has been added to the range for smaller riders. Sizes XS, S, and M come with 27.5" wheels front and rear. Optionally, M is also available as a full 29er or mixed-wheel setup, same as L and XL. A flip chip connecting the seat stays and upper link makes the switch possible without affecting geometry.

The bigger the frame, the more the reach has grown. Size S has grown by only 1mm, size XL sees an additional 14mm. The head angle has been slackened by 0.4 degrees. The seat angle for 27.5" has steepened from 76.6 to 77.5 degrees. 29"/Mix remains the same at 77.1. With the shorter 160mm travel fork, all angles steepen by 0.3 or 0.4 degrees, depending on frame size. BB drop for 29"/Mix has lowered by 1mm (27mm offset), 27.5" by 0.5mm (11mm offset).

The seat tube length for the XS frame is a short 380mm. Except for the XL frame, the seat tube length for the rest has been shortened slightly (S -20mm, M -15mm, L -10mm). The insertion depth is about 10mm lower than it used to be. This improves the ability to size up to a larger frame, although the kink in the seat tube does still limit the max insertion depth.

photo

photo


Suspension Design

Relying on Propain's PRO10 suspension system – a virtual pivot layout with two counter-rotating links that activates a floating shock from both sides – the kinematics for the 2023 Tyee version with 160mm travel have been tweaked ever so slightly.

The recommended sag for the 2023 Tyee is 30%. As far as the progression goes, it has been lowered a bit from about 25.5% to 21.9% for easier use of travel. Propain says that the system still works equally well with air and coil shocks and that test riders like Rémy Métailler did not recognize a negative effect in the bike's handling. The leverage ratio follows a similar curve to the 2020 model but starts lower at 3.17:1 and only drops to 2.48:1. The average leverage ratio with a 210 x 55mm stroke shock is 2.9:1.

Anti-squat at sag has come down slightly from 115% to 113%, with the curve dropping off more quickly once it passes about half of the travel used.

photo


Specifications

Propain's online ordering system is one of the best out there, making it possible to either choose from a wide assortment of components on your own, or pick from predefined packages. Of course, you can also swap out single parts from the packages.

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CF Price2Ride package, Deep Forest color.
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CF Shred2 package, Safari color.

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CF Phantom package, Carbon Raw color
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CF Goldrush package, Deep Forest color.

There used to be three preexisting packages, now there are four. The cheapest possible build starts at $2,999 for the Tyee AL and $3,599 for the CF. The Price2Ride package with Formula suspension and brakes comes to $3,599 for AL and $4,199 for CF. Shred2 with RockShox ZEB Ultimate, Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil and GX drivetrain can be had for $4,484 for AL and $5,084 for CF.

Phantom brings the new SRAM X0 AXS T-Type transmission into play, with RockShox Lyrik Ultimate RC2 and Super Deluxe Ultimate Air suspension, bringing the tag for AL up to $6,109 and $6,709 for CF. Goldrush hints at Fox's Kashima coated Factory suspension. With Crankbrothers Synthesis LRS carbon wheels and SRAM XX AXS T-Type shifting price moves to $7,644 for AL and $8,244 for CF.

With their own saddle quite literally having felt like a pain in the ass for most riders, it's a most welcome option to see SQlab saddles as an optional upgrade in the future.

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AL Price2Ride package, Olive color
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AL Shred2 package, Olive color.

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AL Phantom package, Venomblack color
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AL Goldrush package, Aluminum Raw color.





At first look, the new Tyee looks quite familiar. Understandably so, having won multiple shootouts and user awards around the globe over the last few years. Refinement is the name of the game. The new 160mm travel Tyee CF immediately feels very similar to its predecessor out on the trail, building on its strengths and eliminating a few weaknesses.

Like the model before, even on steeper climbs the Tyee doesn't feel like a heavyweight. Its suspension doesn't wallow much under load, efficiently moving along smooth or rough surfaces. I’ll never complain about steep seat angles, so the slightly steeper angle by almost a degree for the 27.5" models is welcome. Sitting above 77-degrees for all frame sizes allows for a comfortable pedaling position throughout the day.



Photo Nathan Hughes

Although the overall progression came down by a few percent, I’d be hard-pressed to remember if it’s enough to make a noticeable difference on the trail. Different shock models probably have a bigger effect on suspension feel. With an air shock installed, the suspension was still very predictable and able to absorb bigger hits without any issues. The Tyee is one of those bikes that you don't get distracted by what the suspension is doing, it's just doing what it's supposed to. Staying planted when plowing through rock sections is as much possible as popping off little obstacles on the trail in a playful manner.

In that regard, the all-round capabilities of the Tyee are still impressive, from mellow flow trail to full-on downhill track – especially with the longer 170mm fork option – the bike never really feels out of place. As an isolated incident, there was one especially nasty section of brake ruts on a bike-park-style trail that the suspension seemed to have a hard time with, but I doubt that any other enduro bike would have had an easier time with it.

The rear end indeed has gained some extra stiffness, one of the few things that even I as a lightweight rider could notice with the old model, and if I had to put a number on it judging from feel, it would have been higher than the claimed 10%. The new Tyee is still plenty compliant to track the ground nicely without feeling harsh, but the extra bit of support delivering a snappy response when pushing out of berms or tight corners is positively noted.

The words agile and light-footed come to mind quite often when navigating tight spaces, helped by a not-too-extreme head angle of 64.5 degrees with the 160mm fork setup. Having spent about half my time of riding on a size M frame, I did feel my level of confidence dropping a notch in high-speed sections and much preferred the size L's handling with longer wheelbase in that regard, without sacrificing much of its perceived playfulness on the bigger size.

Overall, I was very happy with the size L's handling and would gravitate towards that choice, if I had to make one. While slightly shorter seat tube lengths on most sizes do help with stepping up to a larger frame size somewhat, it could still be better, especially with the kink in the seat tube limiting the seatpost's insertion depth.


Photo Nathan Hughes

It's something that is easy to overlook, but I applaud the PRO10's suspension design for using a shock with regular mounts, it can only be of benefit in the long run compared to higher stresses that clevis or even trunnion mount designs put on the shock.

Most of the time I was riding the Tyee with a mixed-wheel setup, which caters to my personal preference. But I felt similarly at home doing some laps on a full 29er setup, feeling nicely balanced and well-rounded. Of course, when I'm presented with the option to achieve a slacker head angle down to a certain value, I have to go for it. While it's not advertised or recommended, by keeping the wheel-size adjustment flip chip in the 29" setting with a 27.5" rear wheel the head angle drops about 0.7 degrees. Of course, the bottom bracket then drops quite low into the range of about 335mm, so that would require more finessing in technical sections to avoid pedal strikes. Personally, I'd still most likely remain with that setup, enjoying the slacked-out variant, but that's just me.


Photo Nathan Hughes

Trying to eliminate noises worked out well, there’s no rattling to get distracted by. While quite a few haters probably stopped reading at the phrase 'cable routing through the headset', Propain's way of integration seems to at least try to address some issues in a coherent way – no cables rubbing, nicely sealed and using quality hardware for longevity. Plus, the option on the aluminum frames to lead cables into the down tube will make a lot of people happy.

Overall, and thinking about the older design, the new Tyee is still very much a Tyee, and that's a good thing. Headset routing discussion aside, at first look it will most likely continue to bring plenty of joy to riders in the years to come.

Author Info:
ralf-hauser avatar

Member since May 10, 2010
66 articles

211 Comments
  • 339 23
 Why ruin an affordable great bike with that stupid headset cable routing, why!?
  • 124 5
 you can get the aluminium version, which is the affordable one, with regular internal routing
  • 25 3
 @bashhard: that crap basically forces you to do so, at least the alu one has the option, I can see it seems to be done nicely, still, it’s there
  • 49 6
 @bashhard: the point is, headset cable routing is a stupid fad that will die in 3 years - and you will be stuck with an obsolete frame that can't take cables the normal way
  • 15 4
 @f00bar: Yeah, that's why no sane person will buy the carbon model
  • 20 1
 There are too many good options out there to alienate a huge chunk of riders with this headset routing crap. And they've had to back foam anti-rattle sleeves too!
  • 9 21
flag ihertzler FL (Apr 20, 2023 at 6:35) (Below Threshold)
 I have a 2022 Tyee CF for sale. No headset routing, no curved top tube, and no unnecessary 38mm stanchion fork. Would love for it to be taken off my hands.
  • 13 2
 Let’s all go back to stick on bosses for the external life
  • 23 0
 Looks like they took the usual headset routing idiocy a step further and necessitated a proprietary stem. I had been eying a Eugene as a potential bike after the it's refreshed, but now I'm skeptical that it'll be an option I seriously consider.
  • 8 0
 @big-red: I wouldn't hesitate... get the Hugene now before it gets refreshed, there's nothing that bike needs differently. It's one of the best trail bikes out there, especially with their value.
  • 4 0
 Should have named it the walrus.
  • 16 0
 “ The fork is equipped with plastic protection on the steerer so cables can’t damage the fork.” this should never have been a necessary addition. Hidden damage is not acceptable.
  • 45 0
 I have been interested in Propain bikes since the latest gen Spindrift came out, and very nearly bought one (the frame only took too long to be available).

I was reading along quite happily about the Tyee here, until I was legitimately surprised and horrified to see that they have (mostly) gone the way of through headset cable routing.

However, small props for using stainless steel bearings in the headset, and also on the frame bearings (that one is a big deal! and should be something all brands do IMO). That should help some with the longevity side of the problem (but not the "I want a different length stem" problem). And whoever over there at Propain that decided that the AL frame should have an option to avoid the headset cable routing.

Dear Propain Corporate peoples: I will absolutely never consider a bike that has through headset cable routing.

Signed: Guy with wallet.
  • 16 1
 @ocnlogan: I've read that stainless tends to be softer though. So even though they're less likely to be damaged by water intrusion, they're more likely to wear out through normal use, especially in high-impact, incomplete-rotation usage like headsets and pivot bearings. I hope I've been misinformed for Propain's sake.
  • 4 0
 @big-red:

That would highly depend on the type of stainless steel used, and the hardness they use it at.

I don't know what is used in the Acros bearings. That very well could be true. And like you, I hope that is not the case. Guess we'll see.
  • 2 0
 @bashhard: But this aluminium version seems to have a proprioerary upper hedset cover, so if you want to change stem, you probably need to change upper headset as well.... So the only real solution is to buy an aluminium frameset without a headset. A bit sad.
  • 5 0
 @big-red: What you are saying is 100% true. Stainless steel used here is just a corporate stunt. Adds nothing and takes away longevity for riders that actually ride. It will prolong longevity for all those forever fat burning office rats that brag about jumping bikes never actually doing it.
  • 4 1
 @goroncy:

I'm in the PNW. So far my other bikes bearings are roached long before they have worn out due to water intrusion. So thats why I was excited about the stainless bearings. Maybe its not what it seems though.
  • 4 0
 @ocnlogan: just keep in mind that it’s stain*less* rather than stain*proof*. Some types of stainless can end up looking very rusty after a while
  • 4 0
 Headset routing in carbon frames is probably cheaper in production and design of the layup, also easier to get the structurally critical head-tube working. Anybody here who could confirm this?
  • 5 0
 @goroncy: I definitely question the quality of the bearings in the Acros headset. FWIW, I built a Tyee in February this year and ridden it 3 times. The bike has 63 miles on it and the lower headset bearing is failed and rusted. I don't even know how that is possible. Yes, this time of year is hard on bearings, but I've had my Ripley out dozens of times in the same conditions and it's 2 year old Cane Creek headset is just fine.

Maybe I assembled it wrong or maybe it was a faulty bearing. Either way, in more than 25 years I've never seen a failure like that. No thanks, Acros. I'm putting a CC 40 on it and forgetting about it.
  • 6 1
 @silvanoe: oh it definitely is, completely eradicates several features from the frame so makes it cheaper to design and manufacture as a result. Depending on where you intend to put cable ports it’ll also affect strength as you say.

Mashr - Manufacturing Engineer turned Project Manager
  • 3 0
 @nathanawebster: With the "classical" internal routing and non-sealed ports in the lower tube, you just have to turn the bike headtube down after shower and it's way worse than through-the-headset routing. Headsets typically don't have any seals to the inside of the frame.
  • 12 0
 I swear, i was thinking about the next Propane bike coming out, fitting my idea of a bike, would replace my Transition Scout... but seriously... that headset routing is a killer.. wouldn't go near it with a 10ft pole.. particularly, cause I do the service myself....
  • 1 0
 @big-red: Bearing manufacturers say the same. I guess they are right. This probably works out well in wet climates and not so great in deserts?
  • 7 13
flag darkstar66 (Apr 20, 2023 at 14:47) (Below Threshold)
 Literally this comment is becoming boring as fuck......best way to change is stop moaning about it, literally no one who matters gives a fuck anyway, don't buy the bike, get on with your life, easy as that.
  • 8 4
 @darkstar66: please share with all of us who hurt you and where, we can help you! Stop crying
  • 6 0
 @nathanawebster: not only are Acros headsets prone to creaking and of poor quality, but they are the company behind the headset routing trend. Avoid at all costs
  • 4 0
 and then you can't just run a stem of your choice, either...... stupid stupid stupid
  • 4 0
 We need a long term review on a bike with HSCR. Is it really that good/bad, what were the actual, real life pros and cons etc
  • 6 0
 @tacofeet: I feel it’s pretty easy to immagine,
Take your last bike
What works did you do to it in the last year?
How much time did you have to do them?
Now
Immagine that there are cables, going through bearings, inevitably taking in water and dust if not riding in super wet terrain, that goes into your beautifully greased bearings, so they last less even if they last a good time you have to clean them up more frequently, there’s no doubt about it.
Plus, this propain has proprietary stem, which I could never live with, and proprietary spacers, made out of plastic. That’s not good either in my and many other riders book. But
Yeah

I’d love to see the differences in time and effort that goes into regular maintenance between normal guided routing and this
  • 3 0
 @darkstar66: so the riders that do their own maintenance (or aren’t willing to pay loads of money to have the shop replace a headset bearing) don’t matter….?
  • 2 11
flag darkstar66 (Apr 21, 2023 at 0:07) (Below Threshold)
 That's an interesting response from someone using a post as a cable routing therapy board. I'm guessing your last experience laying cable was a painful one. Some things aren't meant to be shared but since you let out a little public cry about it here you go..

www.preparationh.com/products/ointment

Your very welcome
  • 3 0
 @bonkywonky: Exactly they do not. Apparently bike industry was carried away by the covid bike boom and came to the conclusion that they get enough new (novice) customers to just give a big f*ck to mtb enthusiasts. Hope they will regret it.
Not longer than week ago I was servicing my headset which I need to do at least yearly because I am riding 11months/year, sometimes in very humid conditions (like this years shitty spring). I cannot imagine doing it with headset routed cables.
  • 3 3
 @bonkywonky:
1: Are you going to buy a bike with headset routing?

2: If yes then your part of the problem your trying to avoid.

My point is bitching about it here isn't realistically going to have an impact. Your money probably is. But your going to have to wait a while for it to get either shelved as a standard or suck it up.
  • 4 0
 @nathanawebster:
In my opinion its just the lack of grease from Propain. I own a Tyee since 2,5 years. I've smothered the headset in grease when I got it and it's still like new.
  • 1 5
flag Henning-Flow (Jul 13, 2023 at 0:38) (Below Threshold)
 I don't understand this discussion. You have a clean looking bike 364 days a year. and maybe one day you're busy with the headset. When you go full AXS, only the brake cable runs through the headset. I don't get the point for all the hate for this integration.
  • 4 0
 @Henning-Flow: because it doesn't have any benefits. It's just making one part of a bicycle worse for no reason.
  • 3 0
 @Henning-Flow: if you’re having to add a part to stop the steerer tube being damaged by cable rub, you’re doing something wrong.
  • 278 9
 That garbage ass cable tourism disqualifies the whole bike
  • 34 3
 *routing not tourism but you get the point
  • 198 1
 @Upduro: i kind of liked tourism. as if the cables were wandering aimlessly into stupid places while being mocked by everyone who knows better
  • 75 1
 "Cable Tourism-entails the movement cables to places outside their usual environment"

Cable Tourism; It's the new downcoutry.

Upduro wins the internets today.
  • 52 1
 @Straight6Rocks: For real, "cable tourism" should now be settled slang for headset routing. It is the way.
  • 14 0
 @twonsarelli: thinking about it like that it definitely sounds fitting haha
  • 28 1
 I only want to call headset routing "cable tourism" now
  • 23 1
 Cable tourism - making people move to different brands due to stupid design decisions
  • 12 0
 This makes me wonder if auto-correct actually invented "downcountry" and not Levy
  • 8 0
 This comment aged well
  • 102 5
 Open letter to Propain..."I will never, ever buy a bike that routes the rear brake through the centre of a cartridge bearing because it is the worst idea since pressfit bottom brackets".
  • 4 0
 Honestly, I feel like the rear brake is the only deal breaker for me (although any cables through the headset are still a negative). I would actually understand if manufacturers did an externally routed rear brake and then routed the dropper and rear derailleur through the frame. They could offer a fully sealed headset for those who wish to go with a wireless derailleur/dropper and clean things up.
  • 3 1
 @DaneL: My 2018 Transition Vanquish is setup this way and I LOVE it. Easy to strip the bike down to the frame for overhauls without having to cut and replace the brake hose. By comparison, my other bike has ports so small that I can't even disconnect the brake hose from the lever and pull it through, so I would literally need a whole new hose assembly ready to go if I ever want to remove the brake...or at least leave the hose too long and keep extra barbs and olives around so I can cut the tip off the hose and then reset it after. But even then, I have limited room to work with since I ride an XL bike. Either way, annoying as hell.
  • 3 0
 @big-red: the new transitions are still like that except their first attempt at an ebike(repeater) which sadly caught the acros plague
  • 1 0
 @big-red: yup, and all transitions are actually still coming out with this exact setup. its great. on a side note, the vanquish is the last bike in their lineup yet to get the modern geo overhaul..excited to see it
  • 3 0
 @two-plank: I don't think they've sold the Vanquish since 2018 (or any hardtails outside of their dirt jumper), but yeah, they do seem to still have external brake cable routing on all their bikes except the e-bike...and unfortunately their Smuggler, which is the bike in their lineup I'd go for first if I was replacing my full-squish.
  • 3 0
 @two-plank: All of them except for the new Smuggler which has all internal routing now.
  • 49 0
 Pinkbike can you do a mildly amusing video showing what it’s like to live with headset routing? Servicing, brake change, adding a headset spacer etc. I would probably watching that instead of working.
  • 3 0
 This is a great idea!
  • 10 0
 Most headset routed bikes are not harder to change spacers with than regular bikes. Through the stem routing is truly insane. Also, I think PB comment section is way to soft on 'regular' internal brake lines. ALL hydraulic lines should be external in my view.
  • 2 0
 @ak-77: I'm fine with guided frames, such as yeti, Santa Cruz or intense, it takes less time to route one of those bikes than doing up the zip ties. Everything else can pound sand though.
  • 49 0
 Always thought Propain bikes look so cool, haven't ridden one. But Damn.....another MTB company drinking the roadie coolaid with the HS cable routing
  • 7 0
 This!
  • 39 1
 So you sacrifice less than a pound of weight to avoid headset routing on the carbon model, and you save $600-800 as well. Great job on the updated frame and continued value on the builds, but horrible idea with the cable routing.
  • 3 8
flag brookscurran (Apr 20, 2023 at 7:14) (Below Threshold)
 The alloy builds come with headset routing too…
  • 9 1
 @brookscurran: the alloy frames also have regular internal routing options.
  • 1 1
 @stevemokan: and yet they went with the shitty headset routing anyway. And you'd have to get new hoses and headset cover to swap them out.
  • 1 0
 Agreed - buy the aluminium, save money, re-route the cables from the off and suffer only a minimal weight penalty vs most carbon/aluminium versions of the same bike.
  • 2 1
 @2d-cutout: alternatively, you could buy a Bird AM9 frameset right now for $780 with shock (RS Super Deluxe Ultimate RCT). Lightweight, alloy, very durable, fully external cable routing.

www.bird.bike/product/am9-v1-2-frameset-super-deluxe-rc2-bundle/#configuration
  • 33 0
 As a very happy Hugene owner (thanks in no small part to Pinkbike's review) they lost me at integrated cable routing.

That sort of nonsense will immediately take a next-gen Hugene off my list. Bummer.
  • 31 2
 Actually looks a bit worse than the old one IMO. The old one was one of the most beautiful bikes ever.
  • 2 0
 Agreed.
  • 4 0
 I have the last generation Tyee and I thought I today's release would make me want to change frames. However, I like mine way better despite the bottom cable routing. Good bike though.
  • 1 0
 @jhess8: I 3D printed a spacer and have had no problems with the cables since
  • 1 0
 @ruckuswithani: you got a link to the spacer? I'm still sorting out my routing!
  • 2 0
 @jffellis2: www.thingiverse.com/thing:5354129

It works so well, I can't remember the last time my cables bothered me
  • 2 0
 @ruckuswithani: only two days after the announcement of the new Tyee, and having ridden the previous model for almost 3 years and thinking “at least the cables under the bb haven’t been a problem for me”, my front tyre kicked up some wood on the trail which severed my brake line under the bb / chainstay. Couldn’t make it up
  • 2 0
 @aznduro: ahh damn that sucks! I'm currently also riding the "it's never been an issue for me" train. Hopefully I can knock on wood before wood knocks my cables out
  • 27 2
 WTF did you do???

The previous Tyee was one of the greatest enduro bikes out there.
The price was right, performance top notch and it looked great.

Now it gets "updated" with headset cable routing, an invention only the most braindead marketing bro can come up with.
  • 1 0
 Theres still the Alu vs...
  • 20 1
 “It looks nice”, “no rattling” - is it really that hard to say that they did the headset routing because it saves time and money in the carbon layup?

That said, that raw al one looks nice.
  • 14 1
 Exactly. They too embarassed (cowards) to admit it is 100% cost savings and with Acros supplying all the bearings for the frame, most likley some type of OEM package deal on the sh*t headset routing. .
  • 5 0
 @bman33: I mean, we’re all bike nerds here and can appreciate the intricacies of design and manufacturing. Just give it to us straight.
  • 5 0
 yet they still have downtube cable foam sleeves to prevent the rattling that apparently was solved by the headset routing? I am still in the refuse to buy a bike with headset routing. Voting with our collective $18 Pinkers.
  • 1 3
 Just give it to us straight instead of putting a dumb marketing spin on it.
Keeping manufacturing costs down and eliminated a stress riser by removing holes near the highly stressed head tube.

Also in 6 years across 6 bikes (plus kid's bikes) I have never had to replace a headset bearing.
  • 4 0
 @k-n-i-x-o-n: I see you are in Arizona.... great place for bearing life. Wetter/muddier clients are a bit different. Plus, many of us do enjoy tinkering, experirment and swapping parts. We all do agree though, HS cable routing sux.
  • 15 0
 Oh, headset cable routing... Skips entire article for comment section and moves on.
  • 12 2
 So not a lot changed with the ride feel, just some dumb headset routing on the carbon frames and some improved cable routing around the bottom bracket together with a UDH and a flip-chip, that's it
  • 3 2
 And the mullet, which is the nicest thing
  • 2 0
 @NicolaZesty314: yeah that's what I meant with the flip chip
  • 10 0
 Not sure if I'm happy or sad that I just bought a 2022. I have the awful old cable routing under the BB, but at least they don't go through the headset! Apparently Propain can't help but trip over cable routing.
  • 2 0
 Same. The rear cable routing is just awful. But I do love the bike otherwise. Glad I didn’t hold out for the new one.
  • 2 0
 I guess they have now moved the problem to where you can see it now?...or is that not see it?
  • 1 0
 On my 22 Tyee I have just used cable ties to achieve the same routing as on this new one. Down the top of the downtube. Gear cable goes under the chainstay protector, and secured to the back of the chain device.
  • 1 0
 Be very happy you got the 2022. I got to ride a buddies a few months ago and I was hooked on how well it climbed and mashed down the trail. I’m working on building mine up as soon as parts arrive next week.
  • 10 1
 Never thought Propain would go down the headset cable routing route.
  • 6 0
 Sounds like they're Pro Pain
  • 9 4
 I just bought a new Enduro bike. On my last bike, I replaced the forks twice, replaced the brakes once, and replaced the stem 3 times. If I had headset cable routing, this would have added several hours work each time. If I estimate that headset routing would add 2 hours labour each time (I'm slow), that would be 12 hours of extra labour I would have to do. If I value my labour at $100 an hour (I think I'm worth that!), that would effectively be $1200 in extra cost that headset cable routing would have cost me.

For this reason, I'll never buy a bike with headset cable routing. Bike companies are trying to save a few dollars with this routing. Please know, you'll never get my money on a bike like this.
  • 4 2
 Why does headset cable routing mean extra labour charges on a fork swap? Or brake swap for that matter? The only thing it increases the labour time for is swapping the upper bearing. A brake swap could even be easier (depending on the frame) because you only have to feed the hose through the headtube and some spacers, not some tiny port on the side of the downtube with an annoying rubber bung that never quite fits properly.
  • 1 0
 @chiroshi: Not if your brake goes externally, as it should.
Agree on the fork swap though, that should not matter. Or the stem. It's annoying that you need to get the proprietary one but to me it looks like the cables just stay put when you switch out the stem.
  • 7 0
 Acros bearings as a selling point, headset routing, and hard to access rear brake mount-are the engineers who design German cars designing bikes these days?!
  • 1 1
 Acros makes some excellent bearings. The ones in my bottom bracket are fantastic. The sealing on their cable headset is crap, I hear. But they also make good ones.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: I have been using their BB with bo problems, but their headsets are shite...
  • 5 0
 It is curious...
If you sell an enduro bike with exposed external cables..how many will avoid it because of it? I guess a very very small percentage..
if you sell an enduro bike with internal routing, how many will avoid it? Almost none if its done properly....I prefer external but I will take it ..
if you sell and enduro bike with the headset crap routing..how many will avoid it? MANY..Many is about percentage of people around buying enduro bikes..which is NOT the mainstream market for sure..I guess ...200 or even less bikes sold or lost, is something a small brand will care about..
I refrain the accent ENDURO bike since its a kind of mtb that is constantly prone to breakage and maintenance....
I am sorry to say that I will not ever buy a bike from people who don't listen to their potential user's desires. . A full suspension bike is a big expense..just do it right as people want it otherwise is just a stubborn attitude.
That is why I just bought an Orbea Occam and not the new Commencal TEMPO.. I waited for it to come out,..saw the headset crap. forgot about it. Orbea took my money. Simple.
  • 5 0
 Having bought the older version a few months ago, I have to say, besides the cable routing not going under the BB anymore, I’m really happy I didn’t hold out for the new version.
  • 1 0
 I bought the 2022 as well and wasn't happy with the cable routing either...but love the bike overall and glad I didn't wait for this one.
  • 2 0
 On my 22 Tyee I have just used cable ties to achieve the same routing as on this new one. Down the top of the downtube. Gear cable goes under the chainstay protector, and secured to the back of the chain device.
  • 1 0
 UDH and mullet options are also good
  • 7 1
 Love to see the aluminum bike with the same components spec options as the carbon
  • 1 1
 You can configure them however you like, both having the same options to choose from
  • 5 0
 Considering how quickly I killed a sealed Acros upper headset bearing I can only imagine how quickly this stupid thing would start acting up.
  • 6 0
 Hey why don't we put the front brake cable through the left fork stanchion and then f*ck me to death?
  • 1 0
 TOP !!!!!!
  • 3 0
 "The seat tube length for the XS frame is a short 380mm. Except for the XL frame, the seat tube length for the rest has been shortened slightly (S -20mm, M -15mm, L -10mm). The insertion depth is about 10mm lower than it used to be. This improves the ability to size up to a larger frame, although the kink in the seat tube does still limit the max insertion depth."

Guess I should read the article instead of scanning the geo chart and going right to comments.
  • 9 6
 Ok, hear me out. The way that this particular headset routing is done could actually be better than other versions because of where it enters the headset, as well as the way that it's sealed off. It could potentially eliminate, or at least mitigate the problem of getting dirt/debris in the headset bearings. As far as serviceability, it still probably sucks, but since I usually take my bike to the shop for most things cable-related, I might actually be able to get on board with this one. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be in the below threshold section...
  • 3 2
 I have to say, I agree. I haven't tried any bike with cables in the headset, but I remain open minded to trying one.
Although I have changed headset bearings in the past, upper bearings do generally last better.
The main update on this bike is that it can be bought with Transmission. On the configurator it is only €900 more expensive than GX, which sounds pretty good. And if you use that battery shifting, the cable routing is less of an issue.
For me the bigger issue with the headset is that this bike is no longer compatible with a angle adjust headset. I have one on my '22 Tyee, but I don't think that will work on this bike.
I was also disappointed that the seattube is still a bit long, and that the geometry didn't grow a bit more. They could do with an XXL size.
  • 7 1
 One could also make a innovative three legged horse which runs OK, still a four legged one would be superior
  • 3 0
 Lost me as a client with the HS routing, I was waiting for a while this frame for build my new bike, but sorry. I will redirect my business to other brand that doesn't force me to this nonsense HS routing. Was a beauty frame but sorry
  • 3 0
 Someone should come up with a clean, adhesive or zip tie mounted solution for adding external cable guides. I honestly think it’d be a valuable product in the next few years as seemingly every brand submits to the headset routing bullshit.
  • 2 0
 ^this^ someone with a 3d printer could make a nice side hustle. For reference, I've had a little success re-routing some cables that were previously rubbing on a bb shell using a GoPro mount with two slots carved in the bits that the camera mounts to as a port for the zip tie. Works really well as the cable sort of snugs up under the mount and there's room for a cable on each side. You can get flat and curved mounts too so lot of options.
  • 3 0
 Headsets are already one of the main weaknesses in modern bikes. With this routing manufacturers are now asking more out of a part that it already wasn't doing its job very well. Creaking and loosening off of current headsets are super common, bearings crumbling apart, headset races coming detached and bending, EC headsets flaring. Its one of the weakest points on a modern enduro or trail bike and we are demanding a-lot from this small preloaded part that has to deal with strong forces from a 170mm single crown fork and manufacture tolerance delinquency. I'm at a shop and see many bikes from many walks of life and our current headsets already kinda suck and many require a service as frequently as a lowers service.
  • 7 1
 Headset cable routing? Too bad, brings down a sweet bike.
  • 4 0
 Why would one buy the CF frame? 600 bucks towards suspension or lighter wheels would make a much bigger difference in ride than 500 grams, and no headset routing.
  • 2 0
 Curious, if they believed in headset cable routing, why does their aluminum still feature traditional internal routing? To me, it seems less for performance and aesthetics and more of an attempt a way to lessen the cable rattling that is insanely magnified with their blended carbon. My Hugene is ridiculously loud.
  • 2 0
 Cost reduction on cf manufacturing
  • 3 0
 With the AL version you save $600 and get normal cable routing at the cost of 500 g..... seems like a no brainer to me to go with AL Price2Ride at $3,600 USD, heck of a good deal for the spec.
  • 1 0
 I was hoping for a little more here. Reach is still fairly short on the xl and the lower stack (relative to prior version) doesn’t help. Also no increase in seat insertion depth means fitting a 240 dropper is no go for most. That said, love my current tyee and these remain great value.
  • 2 0
 I was surprised that the geometry didn't grow a bit more too. They could do with an XXL size to complement the range.
  • 1 0
 I don't get the headset cable routing hate here. Is it because the stem is proprietary and you can't change it? Or is there another reason why people hate it? Remi has made a few comments on how much he likes it. I honestly don't think it looks bad at all.
  • 4 0
 Here I was, thinking this may be my next full 27.5 bike until I saw the internal headset routing.
  • 3 0
 It's a deal breaker for me as well. Too bad because these were always priced reasonably.
  • 1 0
 So is Frame Height and Seat Tube Length the same thing? Biggest issue with these bikes was the seat tube was too long and not enough post insertion for longer droppers. With this geo chart, I can't tell if this is any better than the last one.
  • 1 0
 "seat tube length for the rest has been shortened slightly (S -20mm, M -15mm, L -10mm). The insertion depth is about 10mm lower than it used to be."
  • 3 0
 I thought it was that people who actually ride bikes design bikes. Internal headset routing shows this is clearly not the case.
  • 5 1
 Got to the 7th picture, saw the routing and instantly stopped reading. Shame on you Propain, shame on you
  • 2 0
 they say the seat tubes have been shortened - awesome - but fail to include the measurement in the geo table. i even checked the website and it is missing there too
  • 1 0
 It's listed as 'frame height'.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: thank you!
  • 4 1
 Looks like a sweet frame, particularly the alloy one; it’s the down tube cable ports that do it for me…
  • 4 0
 I'm going to route my cables externally with zipties in protest.
  • 1 0
 I'm already doing this on my '22 Tyee
  • 1 0
 @the00: I primarily ride bmx so if I run a brake its the way.
  • 5 0
 Internal routing? Nope
  • 4 0
 Lost me at headset routing
  • 1 0
 same
  • 5 5
 I still at a loss to understand what you guys do to your bikes that require the stem to come off. Forks can be dropped out no issue so it’s purely headset and stem changes. That’s less than one a year even in the wet slop and grinding paste we call out local ground. I for one will happy trade that less than once a year extra hassle of having to bleed the rear brake for the much cleaner looks
  • 3 0
 Another bike I was looking forward to ruined by headset routing. No way I would buy it.
  • 2 0
 Just reduce the stand over by like 5 or even 10mm and put a properly sized shock. Can someone at 200lb or more reach 30% sag before exceeding an air shock's max pressure?
  • 4 0
 Are we all going to ignore the backwards ZEB decal in that first photo?
  • 3 0
 You can shove your internal cable routing where the sun don't shine, oh, you already have.
  • 3 0
 waiting on Metailler's response on that lame ass cable tourism headset thing
  • 2 0
 No frame only options? I knew I should have bought prior model when alu was on sale for $1350!
  • 1 0
 They'll definitely be coming. I'm curious to see the prices because the old model was a killer deal.
  • 2 0
 Wireless rear brake would be better than this headset routed crap. Change my mind.
  • 3 0
 The headset routing stem looks like a guy in a neck cast.
  • 3 0
 Not a fan of the broken-back top tube...
  • 3 0
 Headset cable routing + proprietary stem and spacers = Hard Pass
  • 3 0
 I was seriously considering this bike until I saw the new headset routing.
  • 1 1
 All bikes in this category are blending together ... how is this different from any other brand? It comes down to price and availability.

I'm partial to Propain because it makes me think I can ride like Remy Metailler.
  • 2 0
 These bikes still have some nice features that set them apart from the others. It's not a sexy selling point, but the suspension bearings and pivots are really well thought out, use good quality parts, last well and are really easy to work on.
  • 2 0
 @the00: Thanks, appreciate the feedback. These are important to me and I would buy a particular brand based on that information.

As an example I like Norco's, but think their pressed-in BB bearings are an abomination and a failure waiting to happen.
  • 1 0
 This is my kind of bike! I have never heard of this category based rating system though. How do I find the rating on my bike?? It better be a 5.
  • 2 0
 I am 100% biased, but I think this is a perfect refinement on an already beautiful bike
  • 1 0
 How do you consider antisquat change? I kinda like high AS, and feel awesome on Tyee '20 comparing to Capra 29 mk2.
  • 1 0
 Soooooo...apart from the HSCR,is there any other thing about this bike worth commenting?
  • 4 0
 Can't use an angle adjust headset. Should be an XXL reach option for taller people. Rear brake mount means that you need to remove the caliper just to get the pad retaining screw out, and heal clearance will be worse.
  • 3 0
 Oh, and also the delivery times will still be a fantasy. The configurator says early June. I'll be surprised to actually see one before August based on my ordering experience last year. Customer service is generally good, but delivery estimates and 'on order' communication is rubbish.
  • 1 0
 since the rear is internal routed... might as well internal route the front brake as well...
  • 1 0
 I’ll take the aluminum frame with no electric shifting, external cable routing, and high end suspension please
  • 2 0
 The stem and headset spacers look like Darth Vader's neck gaiter.
  • 1 0
 Im glad I ordered "old" version TYEE,I would rather have cables under BB as in stem
  • 1 0
 Thanks for mentioning the bare frame weight !
(2900 g is pretty darn good for an Enduro frame too)
  • 1 0
 And yet 100g heavier than the quoted weight of the old one.
  • 2 1
 How do you pronounce Tyee? tie-eee? twheee? tie-yee? tuh-yee? tie? tuhee? t-hi-ee?
  • 2 0
 Lost me at internal headset cable routing.
  • 2 0
 It's 2023, please make your seat tubes shorter!!!
  • 2 0
 STOP BITCHING ABOUT CABLE ROUTING. JUST GET THE AL VERSION
  • 1 0
 that linkage is unique to say the least
  • 1 2
 Works very nicely. They use this suspension layout one most models.
  • 1 0
 Tuco Salamanca thinks this bike is tyee tyee tyeet.
  • 1 0
 Keep it up with the headset routing and my dad will be switching to Coal.
  • 1 0
 Two 27.5 bikes in one day!!!!
  • 1 0
 The alu frame looks nice...
  • 1 0
 Ah Headset Cable Routing, the new Pressfit.
  • 1 0
 Wow, this looks really freaking good! Improved in all the right places.
  • 1 0
 Professional in Providing Pain (through headset cable routing): ProPain
  • 3 4
 Just here to watch people’s head’s explode over the cable routing. Ah PB, you never disappoint! Wink
  • 2 5
 Mentioned by 90% of comments so far I think
Cable ties still exist for the haters.
  • 2 0
 It's like some kind of market research: Everyone who hates internal cables just needs to let everyone else know that they are not going to buy it. Smile On the other hand - who cares, guys?! I have got Tyee m.y. 2020 and I like this one as well because it doesn't matter that cables enter the frame dozen centimeters earlier. Actually this version is much better than the previous one and I wouldn,'t
  • 1 0
 hesitate to switch to newer one.
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