First Ride: Specialized's New Turbo Levo FSR

Sep 18, 2018
by Ralf Hauser  



When Specialized came out with the first Turbo Levo FSR, they were already very keen on full system integration - even if it meant creating some components and software all on their own to have it their way. With the launch of the new Levo, their drive for building the total package has reached another level.

At the moment, 19 people are working at the Turbo Innovation Center in Switzerland, which is focusing solely on the development of the Turbo e-bike line, and the dedication shows.

The new Turbo Levo is a ground-up redesign with a slimmer, stiffer and more capable chassis. It has lost a considerable junk of weight overall, is equipped with a new technology system, and features about 40% more range. Trying to list all the major improvements in detail will take some time.


Specialized Levo Expert FSR Details
• Intended use: all-mountain/trail
• Wheel size: 29" or 27.5"+
• Rear wheel travel: 150 mm
• 66º or 65.5º head angle
• Frame material: Fact 9m carbon/M5 aluminum
• RockShox Deluxe RT3 rear shock w/custom valving
• Motor: Specialized Turbo 2.1, 250 W
• Battery: Turbo M2-700, 700 Wh
• Sizes: S-XL
• Weight: 21.55 kg (w/o pedals, w/o tubes)
• Colors: carbon/monster green, storm grey/rocket red
• Price: €7,999
www.specialized.com, @specialized

Specialized Turbo Levo

Frame Details

Weight saving was a key factor with the development work, while also adding stiffness and higher precision to the feel of the frame. The biggest amount of weight was shed by developing the new motor together with Brose. While it was necessary to utilize a carrier to hold the motor in the frame with the old system, Specialized was able to lose 400 grams by ditching the carrier and another 400 grams from the new 15% smaller motor itself.

Three types of frames are available: The S-Works model is fully made of Fact 11m carbon fiber, the Expert and Comp Carbon features a Fact 9m mainframe with M5 alloy rear stays and the Levo Comp and Levo come with a full M5 Premium alloy frame. Thanks to the same design parameters, the aluminum-framed version of the new Levo now weighs less than the old S-Works carbon model.

Specialized Turbo Levo
The old design with the motor carrier.
Specialized Turbo Levo
Eliminating the carrier saved 400 grams.

Specialized Turbo Levo
Obviously, the carbon front triangle saves even more weight over the aluminum version.
Specialized Turbo Levo
Old housing (left) vs. new housing (right).


Specialized also took what they learned from the three-year development of the new Stumpjumper and implemented it into the new Turbo Levo with 150 mm of rear wheel travel. Before the addition of the sidearm, they saw that under certain riding conditions the distance between the shock mounts changed under load. Adding the sidearm allows the bike to track better, plus, having the links on the sides of the seat tube further adds stiffness to the package. This new generation of Levo runs on 29-inch wheels with 2.6" tires for added steering precision compared to 2.8/3.0" plus tires, but the frame is designed to also be compatible with up to 27.5" x 3.0" tires.

For every bike model, Specialized takes every single shock to the dyno, tears it apart and custom tunes it under its Rx-tuned program. In regard to the new Turbo Levo, Specialized changed the suspension kinematics considerably and added to the compression tune, providing more support in the mid-stroke of the travel and more progression at the end of the travel. The shock mounts fit regular metric shocks to allow for more aftermarket options.

Another nice touch is (except for the S-Works model) every bike is available in two to four different color combinations. And yes, you can fit a water bottle in the main triangle. Nice details include a small custom chainguide to keep the chain in place and a multi-tool is hidden in the stem's top cap. Fork stop bumpers are integrated into the down tube. Of course, there's an FSR-link on board that separates suspension from braking influences.

Specialized Turbo Levo
Housing is routed through the new sidearm, only visible here in the cutaway.
Specialized Turbo Levo
With only the battery to hold, the down tube circumference has shrunk.

Specialized Turbo Levo
The custom chainguide can be flipped up for chain removal or other work.
Specialized Turbo Levo
Yes, there's a water bottle mount.

Specialized Turbo Levo
Hidden tool underneath the top cap.
Specialized Turbo Levo
Raised sections on the chainstay guard limit noise from chain slap.


Motor and electronics

Specialized has been working closely with Brose to build the new 250w motor, which essentially has turned into the Brose Drive S Mag, at least in terms of most of the hardware. Among other things, they have been the driving force behind the brand new motor mount positions, to achieve the shortest chainstays possible and integrate the motor better into the frame. Built with a complete magnesium housing, they could have opted to make the motor even lighter but decided on making it stronger as well. Compared to its predecessor, the motor is also more stable and any thermal issues are claimed to have been eliminated. The motor features a quiet belt drive, which is free of vibrations and a double freewheel design that disengages the gearbox when you hit 25 km/h.

The firmware, electronics and electronics board are fully custom-built by Specialized to give their bikes the Turbo treatment, really making the Specialized 2.1 motor quite a step up from the old 1.3 model and separating it from the regular Brose Drive S Mag motor.

Specialized Turbo Levo
The Specialized 2.1 motor is 15 percent smaller.
Specialized Turbo Levo
It saves another 400 grams and uses a custom electronics board.

Specialized Turbo Levo
New mounts for the best location possible, with the battery pulled down in front of the motor.
Specialized Turbo Levo
The Ride Mode display can be removed to reveal a diagnostics port.


One of the biggest extra features is the addition of a bar mounted control unit to switch between the support modes (Eco, Trail and Turbo) or activate a new walk mode that instantly adds ample assistance when pushing the bike up a hill. Also, the small Ride Mode display that provides you with basic information about the charge level via 10x LED lights is now situated on top of the top tube, compared to the location on the side of the down tube from older models. Furthermore, the display now also shows what support mode you are riding in by three circular LEDs. The unit can be removed by shops to reveal a diagnostics port, which allows them to access a plethora of information about the bike with their specific Turbo Studio software.

Available as an aftermarket device (for €89), Specialized also offers the TCU display that fits Garmin mounts. It acts as an information unit, giving you battery percentage, wattage from rider input (without the motor input), heart rate (if connected to a sensor), top speed and all other kinds of interesting data. The unit is compatible with old Levos as well. A lot of the bike's data can also be accessed by most modern third-party bike computers with ANT+ and Bluetooth.

Specialized is still working on an algorithm to calculate the exact range in kilometers available and won't add the feature to the system until it's done right. In the meantime, smart control allows you to tell the bike how much power you want to be left after X amount of riding hours and the bike will adjust the battery support accordingly.


Specialized Turbo Levo
A handlebar-mounted controller lets you choose between the ride modes.
Specialized Turbo Levo
The Ride Mode display has moved to the top of the top tube.

Specialized Turbo Levo
The new TCU display is available aftermarket.
Specialized Turbo Levo
The speed sensor is well hidden underneath the FSR link

Specialized Turbo Levo
An independent German lab measured the motor curves of the most popular drive systems and compared it to the new Specialized 2.1 motor. With real 90 Nm of torque between a cadence from 10 to 40, the motor shows no drop in power higher than a cadence of 80 revolutions per minute. The peak power goes up to 560 Watts and Specialized say they gained 10 percent in efficiency overall by the motor's new design.


The new battery is now fully inserted into the down tube through the bottom bracket area, without any reinforcements needed. An expander spring leaf on top of the battery locks it into place, so there's no mechanism that can fail or rattle. A rock guard is integrated into the bottom area, where the battery can easily be pulled out after flipping over the connector, which also acts as a cover for the charging port. A small integrated handle makes it easier to carry around the battery. A great side effect of the frame's new sidearm is that it allows for all the cables to be routed through there and the top tube, which in return allowed a reduction in the down tube circumference.

There are two different batteries now available for the new Levo series, both with the same outside shape, but different capacities. The S-Works and Expert models both feature a 700 Wh edition, with all the other models sporting a 500 Wh battery. While the brand new 700 Wh battery weighs 750 g more than the 500 Wh model, it also allows for a range extension of up to 40%, utilizing the same number of 21700 type cells (as also used by Tesla) instead of 18650 cells from the 500 Wh battery.

A state-of-the-art motherboard balances the cells for long life and even the charger is communicating with the battery to guarantee that the temperature of the battery stays within its defined range between 0 and 45 degrees Celsius. If it's too hot or cold, the charger will simply not charge the battery. Storing the battery shouldn't be a big deal, anything between -20 to 60 degrees Celsius is fine.

Ride tests have shown that distances with 2,400 meters in height in Eco mode are now possible to conquer on a single charge. Because of all the improvements and weight savings on the new Levos, even the 500 Wh battery can deliver an additional 5 to 10% of range, compared to the old bikes. A full charge for the 500 Wh model should take four hours, six hours for the bigger brother. Of course, different rider weights, support modes used, cadence, temperatures, type of inclines and even weight and components of the bike itself all affect range in a huge way. Specialized already has different ride examples available and will add a range calculator to their website down the road.


Specialized Turbo Levo
A new 700 Wh battery holds 21700 type cells for up to 40% more range.
Specialized Turbo Levo
The production model comes in all black and features a small handle.

Specialized Turbo Levo
The connector doubles as a cover for the charging port.
Specialized Turbo Levo
You can pull out the battery at the bottom bracket area.


Specialized Turbo Levo
Mission Control 2.0


Not new, but also improved: one of the biggest features that none of the other motor manufacturers is offering is Specialized's Mission Control app for iOS or Android, to connect to your e-bike via Bluetooth. Mission Control 1.0 already allowed to adjust the level of assist. Mission Control 2.0 now allows users to infinitely tune (within the legal allowance) peak power and support in each mode, so you can still adjust the level of assistance but also limit the maximum current delivered by the motor.

That means, for example, you could still get to the maximum motor output in Eco or Trail mode (if you were pushing hard enough) with Mission Control 1.0. With 2.0, regardless of how hard you push, you can limit Eco or Trail to your chosen maximum motor output (i.e. 30 and 70%). This is a great feature to manage your battery as you’re basically limiting the maximum current in each mode. Less current equals more range.

A new stealth mode allows you to shut-off the LEDs on your frame. With shuttle mode, it's easier to achieve a higher power output at a higher cadence. Ride tracking, motor heat info, social community sharing and too many other features to list here are part of the program. The Mission Control 2.0 app generally has received some new coding, with the new version launching at a similar date as the new Levos.


Specialized Turbo Levo



Geometry

Geometry-wise, the reach for each frame size grew 20 to 26 mm in length, while the seat tube was shortened considerably. With a 380mm short seat tube on the size S model for example, even shorter riders will be able to run telescopic posts with more drop and more riders will be able to jump a frame size up or down to find what they are looking for in terms of reach. The new Command post with 130mm drop is one of the shortest (if not the shortest) on the market and can be slammed into the small-sized frame all the way to its collar, allowing a seat height from 553 to 647mm with this configuration. Same for the 160mm drop post on the size medium frames and up. There are four sizes to choose from: S, M, L and XL.

The head angle got slacker as well and can be adjusted between 66 and 65.5 degrees by a flip chip at the rear shock mount. This also changes the bottom bracket height by 10mm. The seat angle ranges from about 75 to 74 degrees in the steep setting, depending on the frame size. Specialized managed to shorten the chainstays by 4mm, measuring in at 445mm.

The Women's Levo Comp FSR and Levo FSR lineup is using the same aluminum frames as the men's models (S, M and L) but with different suspension tune and touch points.


Specialized Turbo Levo
Turbo Levo S-Works FSR.

Specialized Turbo Levo
Turbo Levo Expert FSR.
Specialized Turbo Levo
Turbo Levo Comp Carbon FSR

Specialized Turbo Levo
Turbo Levo Comp FSR
Specialized Turbo Levo
Turbo Levo FSR

Specialized Turbo Levo
Women's Turbo Levo Comp FSR.
Specialized Turbo Levo
Women's Turbo Levo FSR.


Specifications

Unlike some other companies, Specialized opted to stick with 11-speed drivetrains, mostly because of the weight penalty that the new Eagle 12-speed NX cassette (which is capable of taking e-bike loads) would bring to the table. For example, that unsprung extra mass would have added 370 g more to the S-Works model at an area that heavily affects suspension performance. However, Specialized is adding the 1-click shifters to the program, which are said to reduce a lot of shifting problems with e-bikes.

New Praxis crank arms save some additional weight: alloy versions on the Levo Expert and below save 100 grams, the carbon S-Works editions save 200 grams.

There are seven models total in the lineup, including two women's specific frames with same geometry but different touch points. The entry price for the full aluminum Turbo Levo FSR (and Women's Turbo Levo FSR) with 500 Wh battery, NX-shifting and RockShox Sector fork starts at €4,499. One level up is the Turbo Levo Comp FSR (and Women's Turbo Levo Comp FSR) at €5,699, next one up the Turbo Levo Comp Carbon FSR with 500 Wh battery costing €6,799 and our Expert FSR test model with 700 Wh battery at €7,999. Last but definitely not least, the top model - the full-carbon S-Works - with 700 Wh battery, Roval Traverse SL carbon wheels, Fox Factory suspension and lots of carbon goodies comes with a hefty price tag of €10,999.

Running around with my scale, my Levo Expert FSR test bike with carbon main frame and aluminum rear stays came in at 21.55 kg without pedals, including the 700 Wh battery and tubes. The full-carbon S-Works model is said to weigh 19.9 kg with tubes and 700 Wh battery, so realistically, you could get the weight down to 19 kg flat with a 500 Wh battery and tubeless setup. Both those weights are impressive, especially considering the range.






Why is the Turbo Innovation Center located in Switzerland, and not at the headquarters in Morgan Hill?


For now, e-bikes are still centered more in Europe, so we're closer to the market. That was the whole idea when we started years ago. It's getting more global now, but we have such a good team in place and a state-of-the-art facility that it wouldn't make sense to move that to somewhere else. Plus, we can and do consistently work with the people from Morgan Hill remotely, when collaboration makes sense.


An e-bike obviously is far more complex than a regular bike. How does your team go about the design process?


We all work closely together and are close buddies, so we feed off each other constantly and bounce ideas off one another. We all have our specialties, our duties and responsibilities. My main duty, for example, is to build the carbon frame, to make it stable and light at the same time, among a bunch of other factors. Marco [Sondegger] is responsible for making all the right decisions about the electric drive and component choice, what sort of capacity he wants to go after and the motor. We could go for crazy torque if we wanted to, but have to constantly ask ourselves if that would even make sense. So we have to set the bar to where we think is right. For Buck [Joe Buckley], I can design any kind of suspension that he wants, the feel that he is looking for or the leverage ratio. But ultimately, I can only offer him options with all the other factors that need to go into the design from all the other departments.

All that input from the different experts in their field is collected in a brainstorming session with the whole group. At first, we only have a rough concept and a direction that we agree to go into all together. Then, everyone has to figure out the details for their responsibilities. There's a lot of trust within the team between each other. Ultimately, it's really the whole team that brings ideas to paint the big picture. And it's a bigger picture than a single person could come up with by himself. That's how you get the bike to be head and shoulders above the previous one.


Do you set certain time frames for when you have to get to a certain point with your work for the next meeting, so everyone can continue to build on that?


Yes, absolutely. For example, out of five main topics, we have three or four that are good to go into the detailed design process. And if there's one, where we figured out that the way we thought about making it happen doesn't work, we just do another loop. Or sometimes, something just looks impossible or we figure out that it's too much of a compromise to make that idea happen, we have to be okay with the fact that we tried, it's not going to work and we move on to something else. But the rest more or less has to wait to see if the project can still come together as a whole.


So does it sometimes happen that if one of those five topics doesn't work, it affects one or more of the other four in a way that you have to go back and completely rework those ideas?


One good example is our cable routing through the top tube and the sidearm. It's kind of the heart of how the bike looks with its slim down tube, holding nothing but the battery. But for the command post, you have to make a big loop inside the frame to go back up to the seatpost. I started looking into the 3D drawing to see if we had enough room for the radius to make it work. I ended up simulating the bending radius on my personal Enduro bike and ran it for quite a few weeks to see if we would wear the housing more. If that one wouldn't have worked, the entire concept would have had to be rethought or we would have had to build a specific routing system for the post. Luckily, it worked and we didn't have to dig deeper.





After getting hammered with too much info to process in a short amount of time, we were able to abuse the bikes for two days on various terrain in Croatia.

Unfortunately, the brand new sturdier tires (Blck Dmnd casing) didn't make it to the launch in time so we had to inflate the tires to awfully high amounts of air pressure. After slashing my front tire within the first hour of our ride, that air pressure went up even higher. Usually running some form of puncture protection system in my wheels with low air pressure, it felt like I was back to the 90s, bouncing from rock to rock and sliding out from the slightest mistake in my line-picking. Sure, the pouring rain during the first half of the first day and slippery muck didn't help, but in the end, it made it difficult to ride the bike at its full potential most of the first day.

Having mentioned the parameters, I can forget the ranting and get to the point that the new Levo simply was a blast to ride. While the original Specialized 1.3 motor wasn't bad overall (especially at the time), the improvements made a whole lot of difference. One of the most annoying characteristics of the old Levo to me was its highly noticeable kick-in and shut-off when you hit 25 km/h or simply stopped pedaling. What Specialized managed to accomplish in terms of motor management with the new 2.1 Rx Trail-tuned motor is nothing but impressive. As a matter of fact, you'll be hard-pressed to notice its engagement and shut-off at all, which is even more stellar if you consider the instantly initiating amount of power the motor can deliver at seemingly any given point.

Specialized Turbo Levo

Where we were going, we didn't need roads. It was quickly obvious that the Levo is a very capable climber in each of the settings. The new info display on top of the downtube is always in view and takes the guesswork out of how much battery life is still left. The power output is perfect to modulate, although in Turbo mode it's best to avoid mashing the pedals like a madman when you're about to navigate up a steep and tight switchback or start out on an incline, or the rear wheel will simply spin out.

Many of the trails we were riding up would have been a chore or even impossible to climb with a regular bike, especially in the slick conditions we were riding in. While that part holds true for most e-MTBs, the lower weight of the bike and decently steep seat angle (although I wouldn't have an issue if it was a couple degrees steeper) made it easy to crawl up technical sections. It was also highly enjoyable to watch how slowly the energy drained out of the 700 Wh battery - I never felt so reassured that even if we rode 'till the sun set and however far we'd head into the backcountry that I still would make my way back without having to swap my battery on that day.

Rolling down the trails, I also quickly came to the conclusion that I would have to revise one of my comments from a previous review that all eMTB's push heavily into corners, as the new Levo really didn't fall into that category. The relatively low weight of 21.9kg with pedals of my Levo Expert test bike and overall concept made the Levo handle closer to a regular bike than all the models I've ridden before. A very short parking lot test with a Levo S-Works model also immediately showed how important weight saving is, even, or maybe especially, once you're moving beyond the 20kg threshold. Every kilo counts, and every kilo less translates into massively quicker and easier handling. The S-Works seems to be taking eMTB handling to another level, and I'd love to get considerably more time in on one.

With a low center of gravity and 780mm handlebar it was rather simple to push the bike from one corner into the next, even on snaking singletrack. Lifting the front end over obstacles and drops came natural and only when trying to bunny-hop without making use of the terrain or trying to slow down abruptly after having entered a steeper chute with a bit too much vigor, did my mind snap back to remembering that it was an eMTB I was sitting on. Talking about braking, equipping the Levo Expert with Code brakes was a good choice. Anything less than a downhill brake on an eMTB is asking for trouble.

Specialized Turbo Levo

Setting up the suspension took a bit of playing around, as I started with the 25% sag the bike was setup for me and thought the suspension to be overly harsh in its sensitivity. However, since I attributed that feeling mostly to the rock-hard tires and was too busy figuring out all the other details for most of the early afternoon ride session, it took me a bit to do something about it. Getting the preferred setting for sag from one of the head engineers, who prefers running his Turbo Levo in a plush way, had me incrementally take out more and more air on an extra big lap (with plenty of LED bars still showing on my Ride Mode display), when everyone else already was on their way to hit the showers. I ended up at the proposed 35% sag, which felt right on spot with Specialized's custom tune to the rear shock - that added support to the mid and end stroke - for a nice mix of comfort throughout the first two-thirds of the travel and ample bottom-out control.

Even though the leverage ratio is rather high at about 2.85:1 and with no piggyback reservoir on the RockShox Deluxe RT3 rear shock, most of the time the rear shock providing 150 mm of rear wheel travel didn't feel overwhelmed with the trail bike riding situations we encountered. Sure, some nasty rock garden sections might have been even less of a challenge and could have been taken at higher speeds with a bit of extra travel front and rear, but it always depends on what you are looking for in a bike. It took me until day two to forcefully bottom-out when hitting a decent sized drop to almost flat at speed, but other than that, the suspension felt quite capable of taking the bite out of rocky or rooty trails, constantly following the terrain and providing grip when it counted.

I'd still have to play around more with the setup of the RockShox Pike RC29 fork to feel fully comfortable on it, but I ended up reducing the air pressure in the front as well down to almost 30% sag to reduce some chatter.

Specialized Turbo Levo

While I do like 27.5" plus tires up to 2.8" in width with their extra grip on an eMTB, running a setup with 29" by 2.6" of course has its benefits. The steering when hitting corners or berms hard of course is more defined, although I have a hard time discerning how much more or less grip the 2.6" Specialized Butcher tires could provide without throwing some anti-flat systems into the wheels and lowering the pressure to my comfort zone.

It took me until day two though, to really grasp the potential of the new Turbo Levo FSR. The sun was out, the trails started drying up quickly, the tires started hooking up in corners and with every new trail we encountered, the fun factor grew exponentially. In the end, I ended up spending most of the ride in Turbo mode, somewhat less in Trail and almost no time in Eco when heading up the hills, simply because my legs generally felt tired on this trip, it was too much fun not to, and I wanted to see where my remaining battery level would end up on both days. When the thought occurred on one of the many ascents that I would have liked a bit more power in Eco and Trail to refrain from jumping into Turbo mode too often, it was an eye-opener that I could do just that, or whatever else I felt like in terms of power delivery and maximum power. A quick adjustment with the Mission Control 2.0 beta app, and the bike did exactly what I wanted. Waiting for a software update from another e-bike motor manufacturer to tweak a support mode suddenly felt like a huge deficit - most likely, because it really is.


Specialized Turbo Levo


After climbing 1,400 vertical meters by the end of the second day and still having over 40 percent left in the bike's tank, it is safe to assume that I could have rather easily cracked the 2,000 meter barrier, even if I continued to predominantly ride in the Turbo setting. Granted, I'm a very lightweight rider, but having seen from considerably heavier riders that had similar amounts of battery power left, while spending a higher percentage in Trail and some in Eco and Turbo mode, it was obvious that the extended range is going to take exploring trails with an eMTB to new levels, without having to carry a charger or second battery on extended rides.

Kudos are also due for combining a longer reach with way shorter seat tubes on an e-bike - most companies still don't understand the conundrum that smaller riders face when trying to combine telescopic seatposts with more than 100mm of travel with short legs. If it was up to me, I'd add another centimeter of reach to each frame size, but I guess that's just one man's opinion in a sea of options. While I'm usually riding size S frames with modern geometries, in case of the Levo I'd probably jump up a size for some extra stability. Not that the size small frame's handling offers much room for complaint with the wheelbase showing a comparable length to other modern regular bikes, thanks to the bit longer chainstays. Specialized wouldn't comment on an update of the Turbo Kenevo, but it's safe to assume that the next generation of Specialized's long travel big-hitter will probably feature most of the advancements from the Turbo Levo.

At the end of the day, when the charger isn't handy in the garage, getting the battery out of the bike to carry inside the house isn't a big deal. Either put the bike on its side or upside down. Unbolt a large bolt at the bottom, flip down the connector and pull the battery out of the frame. With only the bottom part of the battery being exposed in the frame, chances of you making a mess in the living room after a ride in the dirt are limited.

Lately, I have been of the opinion that the big players at this point have all refined their motors and software settings to a pretty advanced level, but after riding the Turbo Levo it has become clear that Specialized has raised the bar and is setting the new standard in terms of full system integration and especially motor management, which others will have to catch up to. Engagement and disengagement of the motor support is incredibly smooth, the motor is delivering loads of power output, the weight is low, the range extended, the handling of the bike very balanced and even the looks are absolutely pleasing.







167 Comments

  • + 105
 Why dont you create an E-pinkbike site where i will never go?
  • + 59
 Why don't you quit whining
  • + 27
 Does anyone force you to read e-bike articles? If not, why don't just just ignore them and stop whining as clarky78 pointed out?
  • + 7
 I second this
  • + 14
 @headz: the thing is though is that Pink bike is very much a testing ground for consumers thoughts on products provided by manufacturers. So if you simply don’t read an article and don’t comment, either positive or NEGATIVE, then the market research is not valid. Whining or cheering everyone’s opinion is important!
Personally I think they are not for me. I ride to feel accomplishment. Both downhill AND uphill. An ebike will not give me the sense of accomplishment I want. Sorry but no thanks!
  • - 2
 No one forces you to open this new. Is too temptative for you ? Then may something is coocking in your uncouncious you may not ready to accept...
  • - 2
 @PauRexs: that may be true for a lot of things, including my gender attraction. But noooo, never on a moped.
  • + 8
 @Rimrider26: Except people rarely comment on something that is OK and only sometimes comment when something is exceptional and gets them so stoked after testing it they feel they need to comment positively....whereas (IMO) people are super willing to leave a negative comment about something (even if they personally have never tried it or intend to try it) I see it on pretty much every product that gets announced/ reviewed on here (Usually ill informed comments and with no experience of manufacturing or design) .....so to me it's not a true measure of market research only a measure of pinkbike forum members who are against it (how do you measure the 'for ebikes' and 'not bothered either way'ers' who don't feel compelled to comment)?
  • + 12
 You know something is wrong, when the conclusion is about motor power, software technology and battery range...
  • + 0
 e-bikes are no bikes... they are undercover green moped's... and why do we bike? Indeed, cause we need to do it ourselves... not an electric or petrol engine...
If you are handicapped, it sucks, I understand that you want to bike and use it... but nowadays I see more and more people who are using it so be lazy and just get fast up the hill... they destroy the trails faster with their heavy bikes and it is just not right... get lost here with the forced e-bike sjizzle... bye!
  • + 0
 @NoiNPO: @NoiNPO: yeah, its pretty sad. bikes are becoming like smartphones and I have issues with my iphone, i spend way too much time on it. I ride my bike to get away from it so this is shitty in a certain way. Dont need to bring it but stillz
  • + 1
 @Rimrider26: true however if you create a pinkebike then the moaners won’t leave any feedback ! I don’t ride an ebike YET but am happy to read about them ! Some people just like to get angry !
  • + 1
 why don't you bust your knees first and then come back here and buy a levo?
  • + 1
 @clarky78: I just hope the marketing video wasn't a total cheap acid induced rip off of the lame ass Godsmack Bulletbroof video. barf treason. Where is my 2 ring S-Works Stump Hardtail AF? Fcing lasy ases!
  • + 47
 I always hated pedaling anyways. Seriously, when i startet dh in 96 i always wished there was a way to shuttle the alpine paths of my hometown. Now turning 40 my reluctance for pedaling reoccures. Pedaling an endurobike over the relatively flat trails of my new hometown feels less and less fun. Xc bikes -mostly tires-suck at the descends though. The darkside is very appealing.
  • + 1
 Get a hardtail with downhill oriented geometry, they are tons of fun, especially on the easier trails and climb like a goat.
  • + 39
 @Muckal: I’d rather buy the goat than a hardtail !
  • + 2
 @Muckal: tried that 3 months ago, the bike (commencal meta cromo) is great fun on : dirtspots, the street, flowtrails, my homemade forest dualslalom, slow technical dh,short punchy climbs. Its not very fun on: choppy trails-especially the flat ones, long trailrides. Especially on long rides i noticed a huge amount of fatigue despite running nobby nic joketires. I suffer more and can barely match my times set on my steel fs (with coilshock, heavy tires, inserts etc.). Even in my dh days i was best on tracks where no chain was needed. I always liked the punishment austrian oldschooltracks dished out, i always hated the pedally german tracks. Recently I decided that I am too old to try to like something I never liked and always sucked at.
  • + 7
 @Matt115lamb: Your loss then fella! Burly hardtails rock.
  • + 2
 @Matt115lamb: Seriously doubt you could pay him more than Santa Cruz does.
  • + 0
 @jollyXroger: i totally disagree with the BS warner made up. ET will always be the GOAT, just count the WC Championships in and you have a clear picture.
  • + 3
 If I got one of these, i could feasibly go for an hour ride in my lunch break, and get far enough to do some decent descending.... interesting
  • + 5
 What?
Technical climbing is as much fun as going down.
Mastering an extremely challenging climb makes going down so much better
  • + 4
 Just ask yourself one question: would you think your bikes aren't fun if ebikes weren't a thing?
  • + 1
 @jzPV: in fact until this morning i was not thinking of getting an ebike at all and i have to admit that my lifetime relationship with bikes is in some sort of crisis at the moment. I am not even sure if an ebike is the solution but that minimalistic lapierre is my best guess. Getting rid of what i do not like and preserve what i like ( instead of getting an electric moto)
  • + 1
 @optimumnotmaximum I cant see why people would dedicate themselves to purchasing a complete ebike when you can purchase a paradox kinetics system for your finest steed. Easy to put on, take off if you need to swap your bikes out ... , more power , more fun !
Makes perfect sense to me !
paradoxkinetics.com

What do you all think ?
  • + 1
 @optimumnotmaximum: agreed on most you say. Still what's most fun by far: outriding keyboard-warriors on there 6000 Euro FS Bikes. The same guys that had nothing but a pityfull look for you beforehand.
  • + 1
 @Muckal: after racing dh for 15 +years, beeing faster than people with more money than time (yikes could be me by now)- should be mandatory. Lets be honest i suck but most people suck so hard they dont even know. I also learned that comparing yourself to others while riding kills the fun- i cant help it sometimes though. Hardtail is good for kungfu training and riding with the kids.
  • + 37
 Nah, still don't care about ebikes.
  • + 70
 And yet here you are
  • + 3
 @rballantyne Me neither. But it is new and shiny and can be plugged in. And I'm old and lame. So.. Big Grin
  • + 3
 If I had a gun to your head, which would you choose? e-bike or AI sex doll?
  • + 3
 @BenPea: Damn that's a tough one. Can I have both?
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: come on, it's a serious question and I would like to see a PB poll.
  • + 3
 @BenPea: Sex doll with wheels. Easy.
  • + 31
 Guys what is the problem, seriously?

I wouldn't call myself a fan of e-bikes either (if a little bi-curious) but it's not like we're being force fed those articles.

Fact is: they earn PB revenue and there are arguably people who really like these things, or at least they drop a lot of cash on them (which is why companies spend so much in advertisements for them). So just imagine it as something that pays for more in-depth content on stuff that you do like, like waterbottles.

So why not skip them and go straight to the stuff you like?

There is of course an alternative: we could fund PB ourselves (with subscriptions), make them independent from advertising. But I have my doubts that will happen.
We can't have it all.
  • + 27
 I guess we all know this is not the right direction mtb should go. It is like eating bad tasty food. You like it at the moment when you eat it but you know you are not doing good for your health and for the environment but you eat it anyway..
  • + 0
 And that's why it will succeed! E-bikes are the future, because most of people are lazy, just like with fastfood. In 10 years traditional mtbs will be in minority and prices will skyrocket, becasue 95% of high-end mtb market will be e-bikes. Sorry, that's life.
  • + 2
 @lkubica: If the cost of top end MTBs comes down then that's not all bad news Smile If the R&D stops then that would be terrible.
  • + 3
 @lkubica: They already succeeded. I see 90% e-Bikes. On the road and also in the forest.
  • + 30
 What do we want? MORE EBIKE
When do we want it? NEVER
  • - 9
flag Kiwiplague (Sep 17, 2018 at 22:09) (Below Threshold)
 More like "what don't we want?"
  • - 13
flag clarky78 (Sep 18, 2018 at 0:55) (Below Threshold)
 Boring.
  • + 6
 @Kiwiplague: That moment when you realize you are dumber than you thought.......
  • + 2
 @clarky78: I like that you might be @Larkey1's cynical alter-ego.
  • + 13
 Waiting for a bike with this new German system with smaller motor and battery that weigh only 4kg together and can be both removed from the bike. Less power and less range on battery but most people I talked to run the motor at 30% and don’t have more than 1,5h-2h ride after work anyways. But! You can remove them both and have a regular bike for riding in the bikepark or just riding.
  • + 1
 Yes please
  • + 6
 Fazua? Lapierre is using that in their new models.
  • + 1
 @SiSandro: the zesty looks great.and as a bonus it is designed by the real GOAT. eventually i can lease it via the company as a comuter...hmmmm
  • + 2
 @SiSandro: Yeah, that thing is great. As I said, if you are damn fit, then all you need is 30% of a regular 250W motor, 80-100W of assist is fkng a lot if you think about it. Strong guys riding a 20kg ebike with only 80W assist climb a mountain in my home town in Poland in less than 15 minutes. it takes me 45 minutes on my Enduro bike. If they just cruise up the hill, it takes them 25 min. The gondola, with everything involved, getting from the trail end to the station, waiting in line takes 10 minutes. Then E-bikes are faster than shuttle trucks, So... if you want to become better at riding and riding volume is one of them most important means of achieving that, then this thing is a no brainer. The very fact that you can dismount this Fazua and the weight penalty is only 1kg.

But I wait for more makers to get on board. I am not buying a Lapierre, no way.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: agreed, also my kids start biking and when they run out of battery i pull them, the battery of the bike could help on those trips. no Lapierre ? religious reasons ?
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: waki.... Lets try something different..... Where would you put your money? Bored of reading what you don't like and won't do...
  • + 1
 @Keit: nowhere ATM. I own 4 bikes, my wife has one, my kids have 2 each. I am happy with all choices. When Specialized or Antidote make a 150-170mm bike with Kazua or similar detachable system I will buy it. The rest of bike industry does not interest me at all when it comes to high end enduro bikes. I won't change my Carbon Jack for anything other than e-bike in next 3 years, because simply... nothing grounbreaking will ever happen in this industry when it comes to frames, it's quite over. SO I doubt any 27,5 or 29" bike in 2020 will be so much better than my Antidote that it will be worth to change, unless my bike cracks. I like Mondrakers and Orbeas, may eventually fall for one if such opportunity arises. I may buy a Sick hardtail or two one day. XC and DJ. Swarfs are tits.

@optimumnotmaximum I personally find LaPierres visually not acceptable while I doubt if theyir performance is exceptional.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: while i do not like the looks of their traditional range, the e zesty looks better than all the other ebikes out there. I also agree on the rest, maybe if someone uses the design of the darkmatter in an enduro bike there could be another leap in performance.
  • + 0
 @optimummaximum - damn I just checked it, you are right, the E-Zesty is damn sweet! It’s good that I am broke and collecting money for a trip to Canada next year Big Grin
  • + 2
 The Olsen bike (British) can be built with Pinion or Shimano Steps, derailleur or singlespeed.

Yeah, I do think this smaller motor and battery will be the future. We don't need to show off to ourselves how insanely steep climbs we can tackle if we rarely ride such terrain. But just having this small nudge on some uphill sections or just a little steady support on the boring straight (flat or uphill) sections may just be the ticket. It will take some time for this market to mature though. For the past couple of years they've been way too busy boasting with power, range and low weight. It's been more recent now that we're seeing companies putting more effort in making it feel more natural (with clutches or software). It may only be a couple more years until we see companies release a more subtle product that appeals to the crowd that realizes that most of the current bikes are way overkill for their riding.
  • - 2
 @WAKIdesigns: have you nothing nice to say, ever? Have you ever ridden any other bikes? Have you ever ridden an e-bike?
  • + 0
 @Keit: it’s hard to have something nice to say to you. Struggle is real. Yes I have ridden E-bikes on several occasions. But not under the scrutiny of bicycle academia hahahha.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: yeah we know.
Your messages says it:
Oct 19, 2017 at 3:41
WAKIdesigns says:

I like you, we are very similar, however just like me you fall short with your assumptions as soon as you elaborate them further. Data shortage. I just wanted to prove to you that you cannot hurt me more than I can hurt myself. Race me? Uneducated? Trumpian? Coward? Honestly? Do people actually get intimidated when you speak to them this way or you just haven't tried it in real life? You talk like a 16 year old looking for a fight. Do you know how many "discussions" like that I have had? What the hell do you think you're doing here? Trying to outsmart a fool in his own game? You can try to get on your high horse all you want. Many many tried, I am just typing sht online, I don't give a flying f*ck what people like you think of me, I am just entertaining myself. Maybe because I got more friends than enemies by putting a stick into an anthill... journos, engineers from bike companies, sales reps, mechanics and racers on WCup race. and I will care about you?

You took a wrong turn man.

Oh and no hard feelings... honestly, you're just another pissed off dude. I can understand that. Make this a better day for yourself and ignore me.
  • - 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I'll help you a little. E Bikes are a total game changer. The advance from technology in this sector in the past few years is phenomenal. It should not be compared to traditional cycling or that of a pedelec. There are some amazing rides out there already available. Specialized, Scott, Lapierre, Orange, Nicolai, Mérida are the few that I have managed to spend a few days in the mountains on and it changes the sport entirely. This new automated power delivery works and in all the right places. The added weight on the down adds stability and gives more grip, and most that I have tried have made the right subtle changes to components and geometry. I personally am hovering over the buy in button for a nicolai or the orange alpine e. Very different steeds but thoroughly impressive in each of their own approaches; single pivot or multibar. There are things I'd like to see, such as frame battery and motor only from these brands. But all in all IMHO é bikes are one of the greatest advances in the sport of cycling but should be put in the same category of a pure human power bicycle.
  • - 2
 @WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns: I'll help you a little. E Bikes are a total game changer. The advance from technology in this sector in the past few years is phenomenal. It should not be compared to traditional cycling or that of a pedelec. There are some amazing rides out there already available. Specialized, Scott, Lapierre, Orange, Nicolai, Mérida are the few that I have managed to spend a few days in the mountains on and it changes the sport entirely. This new automated power delivery works and in all the right places. The added weight on the down adds stability and gives more grip, and most that I have tried have made the right subtle changes to components and geometry. I personally am hovering over the buy in button for a nicolai or the orange alpine e. Very different steeds but thoroughly impressive in each of their own approaches; single pivot or multibar. There are things I'd like to see, such as frame battery and motor only from these brands. But all in all IMHO é bikes are one of the greatest advances in the sport of cycling but should not be put in the same category of a pure human power bicycle.
  • + 3
 @Keit: thank you for taking the time to educate me. There are a few people who claim that heavy ass bike is better. Like Chris Porter. But George Orwell teaches us that some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual would believe them. Sorry... you do not need to ever tell me the the benefits of Ebikes. I could identify most of them myself. Weight is however not one of them.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: if they offer a good leasingdeal i will get the lower tier version. They want to push "clean mobility" here so getting an ebike as company car is really attractive taxwise.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: and you might want to look at some qualifications;
Another example:https://www.zedler-institut.de/en/unternehmen/karriere-ausbildung-196299.html
  • + 0
 @Keit: Please chill out. The comment section is exactly the right place to say what you like and what you don't. I'd rather see him do that than tell what other should like or not. And even then. I know Waki would/does call me an idiot for spending the kind of money I did on a hardtail frame and still not run a dropper seatpost. All good. I'm fine knowing there are places where I'd come well unstuck with what I'm currently riding. But I'd rather have that than use something too "able" at one thing and sacrifice the fun/challenges/money for most of my riding. That was his point basically, wasn't it? There is room for an in-between option between the unassisted mtb and the super powerful long range yet heavy and expensive e-bikes were seeing nowadays. Just like over the past two decades we've seen the gap close between the XC bikes and the DH bikes. It is not being negative about what's currently available, it is just calling for a IMHO sensible alternative. And while the North American (me generalizing, indeed) critics fearing an extrapolation beyond the most powerful e-bikes, I expect it to settle somewhere in the middle. Just as happened with suspension travel over these past twenty years. It is not about the amount, it is about the quality. I hope and also expect the industry will eventually jump into this gap in the market.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: yeah that is why wc riders in dh add weight back onto their frames, because it serves only one purpose, to slow them down. Of course you are right.
  • + 0
 @vinay: you are generically correct. However, when someone is generically negative, rude, threatening, not informed well enough, and in the rarest cases accepting of different positions, my personal belief is to make a point. Especially when someone has a go at a bike that he or she has not even seen in person or even ridden. The Turbo Levo is brilliant. With the rest you are correct. I have beef with waki for all the reasons above, plus not accepting a gentlemen challenge, being insulting and threatening. I used to ignore him until his pro doping arguments popped up. He was blasted by myself and a few medical professionals. Which incidentally provoked his most wonderful pm to me. The internet never forgets, and when I have 10 minutes to waste, nor do I. Albeit I always stick to the topic, and admittedly enjoy provoking waki, inbetween the lines, to make his rude threats. Far too many hide behind keyboards and the likes of twitter and like the market on e bikes internet communication still needs to find the "middle ground".
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: George Orwell also said: We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
  • + 2
 @Keit: which dh riders are adding weight to the back of their bikes?

@vinay wh n did I call you an idiot?
  • + 3
 @Keit: i bet he also said “ will you two get a room “ once ! Lol
  • + 1
 I am also glad you brought up the second wuote by Orwell because that is exactly what I did. Called out a stupidity. You simply must suck bad at riding that you don’t know how bad you are. You don’t know what you don’t know so you feel good about yourself. If you ride through a rock garden like a bag of potatoes, reluctant to express any body language then no wonder you like big heavy bikes. Otherwise you’d die.

Also if I will want an advice on ebike choice I know a few people like Steve Jones, and i can ask them for advice, personally. Not listen to a slow peasant like you. So since you started this conversation to educate me, you should have fkd off bedore you wrote the first word.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Sorry, you probably didn't ever call me an idiot. It is probably closer to "would" than "does" here. I recall you questioned the point of riding a hardtail over rough trails though I can't be specific here (and too lazy to dig into our old conversations). From what I've seen I think I can ride the trails at Isaberg on my hardtail though it won't be very fast. If you want to be quick, full suspension is probably the ticket. I just enjoy the low speed challenges too. This is way off topic here though. It was getting off topic already but I don't intend to take it any further. I just really agree with the initial statement. Unfortunately the whole thing got littered with literature, year old quotes and whatever else could be pulled out of context. I wouldn't want to add to that.

@Keit: If you were bothered by previous posts under different articles, you can comment on those but I'd suggest you'd only do so under these respective articles. I also find myself strongly disagree with a PB member on one subject and agree on something else. It is nice to keep these discussions separated. It is only the statements you can argue over, not over what the other person actually is like. This is not what this medium is fit for. Our king once told his daughters (and I think it is a good point he made there for whoever grows up in a social media world) "When people don't know you personally, whatever they say about you can never be taken personally." I think it is a good one. I don't think there is such a thing as hiding behind keyboards. By the very nature of this medium, people can only communicate through text. I'd say "hiding" is more conscious, more intentional. That said, I don't engage in social media stuff like Twitter.
  • + 0
 @vinay: generally I agree with you. In regard to his particular individual, waki, I do not. He has repeatedly insulted me and others for disagreeing with him. He has threatened physically. He has not accepted a sporting challenge of a race. And here he clearly, once again, is negative and does not know what he writes of. He clearly has absolutely no social etiquette.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns Makes perfect sense to me !

These are great !

paradoxkinetics.com

What do you think ?
  • + 1
 @glenno: Yeah, I've seen those too. I think they're a bit too powerful and fast to qualify as regular e-bike. I would expect them to release a lower power and speed version too though.
  • + 1
 @vinay: What is wrong with powerful & fast ?
  • + 1
 @glenno: For the legislation to qualify as a regular e-bike. By which I mean that even if regular e-bikes are allowed on bicycle paths and mtb trails, this one won't.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: i figured out that my city pays 25 % of the netcost if i buy an ebike via the company (some sort of emobility program). in addition i do not have to pay vat (19%) and 1/7 of the remaining price is deducted from the company profit ( for 7 years). Sounds like someone wants me to buy it and as someone who does not like conflicts i will. Thanks for mentioning the "removable german system".
  • + 1
 @SiSandro: thanks for the tip, getting the e zesty 9.0 asap
  • + 17
 I just came here for reading comment.
  • + 12
 If your misses loves using a vibrator rather than your own d**k, get an ebike!
  • + 11
 "Walk assist" is the "hill assist" that american mom minivans have. That tells you all you need to know about the intended market.
  • + 9
 But I get the point. I wouldn't want to hike a 20kg+ bike up a steep trail.
  • + 1
 @colincolin: It is just one step further in the wrong direction. If you can't ride up it with an E-Bike, chances are you also can't ride down it. I've seen enough "regular Joes" pushing eBikes up trails WAY beyond their capabilities already...
  • + 2
 I have a 20+ kg DH bike with no motor. Even pushing up the climb trail is anti-fun.
  • + 0
 @Kainerm: This rhetoric sounds smoother than it actually is. By your logic, athletes who competed at the Red Bull Hardline DH race would also be able to ride that same track back uphill when on a bike with pedal assist. I need to see that happen.
  • + 9
 With 8000,- I can buy me a brand new Beta Xtrainer 300 2-stroke and I will still have a 1000 bucks left to get boots, a helmet, and clothing/protection........
  • + 2
 I see so much hate, seriously what is the point of you spitting toxic comments on every f*cking article about e-bikes?

You don't like them, don't click on the article and most important, don't come spread your poison!

At least show some respect for the journalist and the people who are actually interested in e-bikes and stay the f*ck out of the comment section...

Today all the MTB media do speak about this bike, I wouldn't want pinkbike to stop covering everything that happens in the MTB scene.
  • + 2
 Why is development center located in Switzerland?

So it can look more expensive. Everything with Switzerland in the title can be extra expensive, how else are we going to sell bike for 10.000€? We can't say it was developed in East European country can we?
  • + 4
 Because in business accounting beats engineering every time.
  • + 2
 @jollyXroger: and we got the best accountants that know how to cook those tax books. Sure its more expensive here, unless your a big corporation where saving a few percentage points on your tax burden literally saves you tens and dozens of millions of dollars. But the REAL reason is because we have some of the best riding in the world. Gnarly trails are EVERYWHERE in the Alps. But we also have chair lifts everywhere too so I dont see the need for an e-bike.
  • + 1
 @Boardlife69: They could also base their factory outlet store in Samnaun or Livigno. Because of the gnar, of course. Wink
  • + 2
 Keep the ebike stuff coming. Iv ridden 27 years on mountain bikes and have totally fallen in love with my ebike. Seriously, once people actually ride them, instead of getting angry over something new they may actually find a whole new fantastic biking experience.
  • + 2
 I'd guess that many of the commentors here have not ridden an ebike. I'm a very dedicated MTBr. I race cross country many times a year. I sometimes actually win said races. So I clearly have no issues pedaling. I love the fitness and health benefits I gain from riding. I just love riding in general. I was quite dark on eMTBs for a multitude of reasons. That was until I rode one. It took me approximately one minute to understand a very simple fact. They are immense fun. For any normal human with normal fitness, they are drastically more fun. Every test ride I've had on a Levo or Kenevo has been a freaking riot. Make no mistake, ebikes will totally replace standard MTBs in the very near future. This isn't a wild guess, it's an absolute certainty. I feel the best example is snowboarding. If you had to walk up the mountain every time, the sport wouldn't exist. An eMTB is kinda like a chair lift. It removes virtually all the suffering of climbing. Normal folk who just want the fun without the effort... that's basically the entire human population, will never ride a regular MTB. They'll wonder how and why we did the sport on standard bikes. Is this a good thing? Will it make everbody lazy and fat? Everybody is lazy and fat. Nothing changes. I don't own an ebike as I really enjoy the training etc, however, what's certain is, I will own one in the future, and so will 99.99999% of other riders. Which is every single MTB rider in the world, NOT commenting in the comments section of Pinkbike.
  • + 5
 Please start showing these articles to our American friends again i miss all their comments crying over E-bikes.
  • + 2
 Big question for me is, what is the longevity of the battery?
Given that these bikes are already between £5k to £10k, will you need to keep replacing a dying battery every 2 to 3 years and at what cost?
What’s the warranty policy look like for the batteries and electric motor?
  • + 2
 An ebike battery will do at least 500-750 full cycles before losing capacity noticeably. Assuming the worst possible range of 50 kilometres per charge, this is about 25000-37500 kilometres. Realistically more. This should be enough for a long time. As for the warranty, wear is obviously not covered but faulty parts are being replaced no questions asked (based on my experience with Yamaha, Bosch, Shimano, Brose and some smaller manufacturers)
  • + 0
 I think the warranties are usually 2 years,then cost of replacement and repairs are all on you.So I could be wrong but I'm guessing there can't or won't be a strong second hand market or value for these if those costs could be upwards of £1200 just for the E bits.
  • + 1
 @GravesendGrunt:

when we were looking at a kinevo the other weekend they told us that a replacement battery was around £720 so it's really not that much in the grand scheme of things.
  • + 1
 @aidy: How much was a new motor-as they fail too?
  • + 1
 @aidy: not very cheap either....
  • + 1
 @GravesendGrunt: about €900
  • + 1
 The last versions of these were definitely some of the best looking e-bikes out there. Quiet too.

Anyway won't go too deep in to the e-bike thing here, but living over here in e-bike-mania-land you kinda get used to it. That and on 1000+ meter climbs you almost get applause for not having a motor these days, haha..
  • + 1
 On a somewhat dreadful but typical Saturday climb on the way up to my typical favorite trail, 2 guys went buzzzzzzzing pass me so fast I had to have a look. And guess what, it was such a relieve that the 2 seemingly fast guys are riding 2 of these bikes. Hah!

Psst.... Did I mention that they have these blinking green led like it's Christmas already? If you guys are reading this... yes I'm envy.
  • + 2
 www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/14/e-bike-crash-death-prompts-debate-over-safety-on-uk-roads

Specialized e bike in action the other day.....
It may be the turning point for them?
  • + 0
 I brought up the Dutch case in a 'debate' on Ebike regulation a few weeks ago, an was berated as being paranoind and 'this will never happen'......... an here we are Ebikes ARE motor bikes are NOT bicycles an NEED regulation or we're gonna get tarred with the same brush
  • + 1
 Is it just me or is 22kg still not anything to brag about? For me the best use for e bikes is in place of busy uplift services and to keep you on the bike rather than in a sweaty van all day (uk people aren’t graced with chair lifts!) but if my DH bike is still considerably lighter than an e bike I’ll stick with the sweat box thanks!
  • + 3
 Yeah, the dh bikes are great fun BUT and this is the BUT, the ebike means you don't have to pre book your uplift, you just turn up and pedal up (which being honest I find nicer than in and out of a van in damp October) and hit the trails at your pace.
  • + 2
 22kg bicycles means pinkbike will have to replace the "yoga with abi" articles by "power training with schwarzie" articles Frown
  • + 3
 So wait this is $8000 now. When the 25% Tariff hits it will be $10K? Also, that KXF450 for $6500 is looking way more appealing.
  • + 1
 I have been waitin for 25years for e-bikes to be invented, but still a bit bitter it took so long, as now I am a bit old to enjoy them as much as would have been being younger, but back then would not have had the money to buy one, so it is all good really, but getting an e-bike does not mean I am any better at riding so still want a 15kg full sus e-bike now, not in 25year?
  • + 2
 21kg is still likes too heavy for when the battery runs out. I wonder if they have addressed the battery box creaking where it rubs the frame. Looks like a step in the right direction, but it's not quite there.
  • + 0
 8.000 EUR for a 22kg "bicycle", yup
www.vojomag.com/presentation-specialized-levo-2019-le-benchmark-reprend-de-lavance

Thanks to electric motorbikes, rising death toll in the Netherlands : www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/older-men-using-e-bikes-behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists

This is not a bicycle, per rules ot the Club des cent cols:
"Par bicyclette on entend tout engin mû par la seule force musculaire"
www.centcols.org/regle-du-jeu
  • + 0
 E-bikes are a future I hope I will not have to witness and this is said by an owner of a first series Turbo Levo. I and my friends just use the Eco mode when riding it, just to never forget that feeling which mountain biking was all about. If you use them in fast mode all the things you see around you start to suck and the best trails in Europe start to not be impressive anymore, because the focus is just on the motor the allows you unreal speeds up the hill. This is of course my opinion and my opinion only.
  • + 3
 More and more bikes for people with leg disabilities cropping up on PB. So woke!
  • + 1
 I rode it at the test event, i like ebikes, it is really fing good. Worth noting this is where all the money will be made for the next years, on ebikes. There are no numbers anymore in normal bikes....sorry.
  • + 4
 @fssphotography, Could you elaborate on this? Why are ebikes more profitable? Your telling me that Santa Cruz are not making much profit on there £6K shite spec off the shelf bikes?
  • - 1
 It's because at least in my country, these are the type of bikes 60 year olds without mtb experience get talked into by the shops.
  • + 1
 @HFturbo: because ebike sales are starting to outstrip non ebike sales. Also consider the basic entry level price for an ebike versus a entry non-e. Basically though, it's just that people wanting normal bikes are growing less. Average Joe's, non-riders, commuters, they want ebikes.
  • + 1
 @HFturbo: Last year a famous company, (not specialized) sold 20% mtb 25% road bikes 50% emtb. This is a numbers percentage, not value. So, based on this I would assume extrapolating for error the numbers market for emtb is bigger across the whole market for emtb than traditional mtb.

This data came from a production manager.
  • + 1
 keep on bike industry. I hope that e-bikes will be more improved in 20years, when I will be 60 years old. At that time this will be the only alternative to have a good time on the mountains
  • + 13
 I beg to differ. Most 60year olds can ride up a mountain perfectly fine.
  • + 4
 @FuzzyL: Exactly, my father is 68 and he rides regularly in real mountains, no need for an e-bike.
  • + 2
 @FuzzyL: agree, I know 60yolds who run mountain marathons!
  • + 1
 Even if santa cruz built another ebike, it won't attract me.. Go green people, ride a bike means you support the nature. Now you bring electricity to the mountain. Really bad idea..
  • + 1
 why does one need electric bike? If one has medical condition, one should ride normal bike or don't at all! electric bikes are for lazy people!
  • - 1
 I like emtb,they can push me uphill and never got blind by the dust of one of them going downhill cos all of them are slower than a regular bike. It is a good tool for trail guides/shuttle business cos you can carry more things and move quickly uphill if needed,good to take care of multiple customers.
  • + 1
 "Before the addition of the sidearm, they saw that under certain riding conditions the distance between the shock mounts changed under load."
The shock compressed? No shit...
  • + 2
 Wow so much effort put into an article that no true mtbr wants to hear about
  • - 2
 Blah blah blah blurgh
  • + 11
 True MTBer, hahhah. You mean like Olly Wilkins? Sam Pilgrim? Nicolas Vouilloz? Matt Hunter? Sven Martin?

Enjoy your purity hahah Big Grin
  • + 12
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm upset not to make this list.
  • + 1
 I have the 2018 model and it changed my life. I can go ride with no problem. I will update to the new one it's the best E Bice in to market.
  • + 4
 How about no
  • + 2
 Added to the database for geometry comparison... geometrygeeks.bike/bike/specialized-turbo-levo-2019
  • + 1
 Laughing at all the ebike haters, never heard so much guff in all my life surrounding the ebike debate !!!!!
  • + 0
 I think the bike is very impressive. I like what Specialzed has developed!
But I'm still not sure whether I need or want it (at this price).
  • + 1
 Why doesn't the Stealth bomber have a walk mode? Oh yeah it ain't a gutless pedal assist piece of shit.
  • + 2
 'The Joker'

"Here...we....go....."
  • + 1
 Bottom line, E-bikes are selling like fuck and they're currently propping up the industry financially. Deal with it.
  • + 1
 I’m sorry, they look f*ckin rad.
Must be a huge job fitting all that in, props to Specialized.

I love it.
  • + 3
 wow...47 lbs.....wow
  • + 0
 Put this motor in loic bruni’s bike, and im starting to get interested. Intergrate the motor and gear box, and i will buy one.
  • + 2
 special bikes for "special peoples"
  • - 1
 Why not move all E mopeds and made in china bikes revives somewhere else.
Oh .hit, but then what PB going to push in paid reviews?
  • + 1
 I would consider buying this. For my 72 year old mother...
  • + 1
 When are you gonna make an over 50's Pinkbike website for this shiz?
  • + 1
 Where in Croatia did you ride?
  • + 1
 Seems Rabac to me..
  • + 2
 @fss
  • + 1
 so Chainstays have 445mm or 455mm ??
  • + 1
 I don't really admire ebikes, but this one looks really well-thought-out.
  • + 0
 Why does my levo creak, the motor carrier housing may be the answer, as did not know it had one?
  • + 1
 I want one...
  • + 1
 Popcorn time!!!
  • + 0
 Nice circuit board on that bike!!! Barf again
  • + 1
 Specy raised the level.
  • + 2
 No, Speci are still far behind. Their Ebikes have pedals, that nobody needs or wants. This is the future of Ebikes: www.dirtrider.com/2018-ktm-freeride-e-xc-first-look
  • + 2
 @FuzzyL: What grabs my attention, is the price for that KTM is "will be just north of $8,000". The price for the Levo listed here, is $8000 euro. Is the Levo...more expensive!? That's nuts.

OK, we'll say the Levo is expensive because it has lots of fancy carbon parts to save weight. But...why are we counting grams on an E-bike? You're already way beyond the weight that you would voluntarily pedal without the motor assist...so why bother? Just make the bike cheaper and heavier, and the motor bigger?
  • + 1
 @Jagungal: The thing is that the alta and ktm will rip on flat and uphills. Take both on technical descent and i promise that you won't be having any fun no more. So if you just add up the weight and engine size on the e-bikes to make it fit on everyones budget they wouldn't be to much fun on anything.
  • + 1
 Barf!
  • + 0
 More of this please!
  • - 3
 Ebike = nopes
  • - 2
 is it only me who sees the logo Spec change like Suzuki??
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