First Ride: The 2023 Santa Cruz Tallboy Gets Updated, Not Overhauled
For Santa Cruz, the previous generation of the Tallboy was a bike that became something of a cult classic. It seemed to resonate with nearly everyone that rode it, inspiring all sorts of unique custom builds, some of them focused on eking out as much downhill performance as possible, and others on making into an XC machine with more comfort than a purebred race bike.
Released in 2019, the Tallboy 4 hit the sweet spot when it came to versatility, boasting geometry numbers that allowed it to handle trickier, technical terrain without feeling dull and lethargic on mellower trail. It's a trail bike through and through, with 29” wheels, 120mm of rear travel, and a 130mm fork.
Released in 2019, the Tallboy 4 hit the sweet spot when it came to versatility, boasting geometry numbers that allowed it to handle trickier, technical terrain without feeling dull and lethargic on mellower trail. It's a trail bike through and through, with 29” wheels, 120mm of rear travel, and a 130mm fork.
Tallboy 5 Details
• Wheel size: 29"
• Travel: 120 mm, 130 mm fork
• C & CC carbon frame options
• 65.5º or 65.7º head angle
• 76.6º seat tube angle (size L, low)
• 438mm chainstays (size L, low)
• Sizes: XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
• Weight: 28.75 lbs / 13.04 kg (size L, X01 AXS RSV build)
• Price: $5,299 - $10,399 USD
• santacruzbicycles.com
• Wheel size: 29"
• Travel: 120 mm, 130 mm fork
• C & CC carbon frame options
• 65.5º or 65.7º head angle
• 76.6º seat tube angle (size L, low)
• 438mm chainstays (size L, low)
• Sizes: XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
• Weight: 28.75 lbs / 13.04 kg (size L, X01 AXS RSV build)
• Price: $5,299 - $10,399 USD
• santacruzbicycles.com
Santa Cruz didn't want to mess with a good thing, so the 2023 Tallboy doesn't deviate that far from the previous model. The geometry has been adjusted slightly, and the same goes for the kinematics, but it's more of a fine tuning rather than a complete overhaul.
Gloss Ultra Blue and Matte Taupe are the two color options for the fifth generation of the Tallboy.
Frame Details
The most obvious change to the Tallboy's frame is the addition of downtube storage, a feature that's now found on nearly every trail and enduro bike in Santa Cruz's lineup, except for the Bronson (at least for now). A small latch next to the water bottle cage allows access to the compartment, and two pouches are included for stashing a tube, tools, and any other snacks and accessories that'll fit.
Other than the new snack stash, the Tallboy's frame details haven't changed all that much. There's fully guided internal cable routing, a threaded bottom bracket, room for a 2.5” rear tire, and mounts for a chain guide. There's also a universal derailleur hanger, and a flip chip on the rear shock mount that allows for very subtle geometry changes.
Plenty of room for a full size water bottle, and a compartment underneath for snacks and tools.
The chainstay adjustment feature has been replaced by size-specific chainstay lengths.
Geometry & Suspension Layout
The Tallboy's shock flip chip remains, but the ability to alter the chainstay length by 10mm has been removed, replaced by size-specific lengths for each size. Chainstay lengths range from 431mm on a size small up to 444mm on an XXL.
The Tallboy's seat tube angles are also size-specific, getting steeper with each larger size. That helps ensure that taller riders won't end up too far over the back of the bike when climbing.
The new Tallboy isn't any slacker than before, but it did get a little bit longer, with reach numbers that match up with the rest of Santa Cruz's lineup. The reach for a size large is now 473mm in the low setting, an increase of 5mm. The slightly steepened seat tube angles balance out that increase, creating a top tube length that's relatively unchanged, which means the seated climbing position will feel nearly the same as before.
Santa Cruz lowered the Tallboy's leverage ratio to give it a slightly less progressive shock curve, a change that's also accompanied by a lower amount of anti-squat in the beginning of the travel, and a less aggressive drop off later in the stroke. Those changes were done to increase the bike's small bump compliance, and to give it a more predictable suspension feel at all points in the travel.
Build Kits
There are 6 models in the lineup, with prices starting at $5,299 USD for the Tallboy C R, which has SRAM NX drivetrain, Guide T brakes, a RockShox Pike Base fork and a Fox Performance DPS shock.
At the top of the line sits the $10,399 Tallboy CC X01 AXS RSV. That's a whole lot of initials to designate that it has Santa Cruz's highest end carbon frame construction, SRAM's AXS wireless electronic drivetrain, and Reserve 30 SL carbon wheels. Suspension duties on that pricey model are handled by a Fox Float Factory DPS shock and a RockShox Pike Ultimate fork.
Eliot Jackson charging on the new Tallboy.
Ride Impressions
The Tallboy isn't a downcountry bike, and it's not trying to be. Instead, it's a do-everything machine that has a 'just right' air to its handling. There's no sketchiness or unpredictability to be found – it's the rider that'll be bringing those traits to the table, not the bike.
Honestly, I could probably just drop the link to Mike Levy's review of the Tallboy 4 in here and call it good. There are more similarities than differences between the two versions, and the overall ride characteristics are nearly identical. It's been a little bit since I last rode a Tallboy, but going off my somewhat fuzzy memories I'd say that the suspension does feel better than before - it's a little softer overall, which makes the bike more comfortable on choppy sections of trail. There's still plenty of support, though, and even when I used all of the travel there wasn't any harshness at the end of the stroke.
The Tallboy's strength is its versatility – it feels solid, free of any unwanted twitchiness, even on rougher, high-speed trails. The Maxxis Dissector / Rekon tire combo worked well for the dry, dusty conditions that have prevailed lately, although I'd likely put something a little meatier on for wet conditions or to really try to wring out the most downhill performance possible. I'd also probably swap out the G2 brakes for some Codes if I was going that route, since there's only a small weight penalty and a noticeable performance difference. Still, for general duty the G2 brakes work all right, and a rotor upgrade to the new HS2 versions would be an easier way to bump up the stopping power a little further.
The Tallboy's handling is very calm and predictable, and the same goes for the pedaling performance - it strikes a nice balance between efficiency and traction. That said, the weight combined with the more muted suspension feel does make it feel closer to a short travel Hightower rather than a longer travel Blur.
That's not to say that it feels heavy or lethargic – far from it – it's just there is a noticeable difference between how it feels compared to something like the newest Trek Top Fuel, or even a Transition Spur for that matter. All of those bikes have 120mm of rear travel, but the Trek and Transition sit more on the aggressive XC side of the spectrum, and have more of an appetite for sprinting uphill than the Tallboy.
Those lighter and livelier options are great for riders trying to scratch that downcountry itch, but when gravity takes over it's the Tallboy that pulls ahead, with a more planted feel that delivers the confidence required to hit higher speeds and more challenging trail features.
As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and that's exactly what Santa Cruz have done with the Tallboy. It's a refined trail bike, with easy-to-live-with handling and all of the frame features (and corresponding price tag) that Santa Cruz has become known for.
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Now I'm just sitting around sweating that they were blowing them out before a new release and that it's not a pricing error that they'll cancel.
I remember when $13,850 CAN would get you a Totota 4x4 pickup.
That’s insane dude. Nice find.
Keep in mind, this is based on word of mouth from a dude that knows a dude that supposedly works there.
So, maybe take this with a grain of salt...
This bike is silky, but if it’s getting enough descending time, 4 pots are the way to go.
As for NX-that stuff is best taken behind the shed.
Will I regret that not just buying the fancy Ripmo for 5.5k when I end up spending 5k buying/upgrading something else? Quite possibly. But at the moment I was looking more for a 3-4k bike than a 6k bike (where it would fall with sales tax and shipping).
m.pinkbike.com/news/video-eliot-jackson-smashes-corners-on-the-new-fox-34.html
Your comment is just as predictable
www.pinkbike.com/photo/23398059
www.pinkbike.com/photo/23398060
Maybe not with the VPP layout, but I think we're gonna see an increase in affordable bikes with great geometry in the coming years. It's already happening with some good white label Chinese frames, eh?
I did run into a guy at a bike park with a VPP lower link clone bike from China. He was telling me about people organizing group buys on forums...didn't appeal to me, but hopefully soon, we get some more cheap mainstream options.
BTW Vitus and NP are still quite decent value in the UK but not so much overseas, I know.
I love the intended use: "All mountian Boost"
on the "about us" page: "The S&M Department &the factory is in Huizhou now." - they do all their S&M in-house.
Their website is a gold-mine of entertainment, but I'm not sure I'd buy a bike from them...
VPP came along a decade later, but that patent only expired a few years ago.
Hopefully someone's going to come along and not GAF (Chinese?) and the main players will have their gravy train ended. I won't shed a tear for them, since we've been gouged for a long time.
deviate highlander w/ ohlins shock, fox 36 factory, dt m1900 wheels, hope e4 brakes and 200mm rotors, one up 180mm dropper, xt shifter, chain, crankset and bb, xx1 cassette and full deity cockpit (including Tmacs).
It totals £6555. Spare £200 more for a headset tyres and cables.
GX AXS upgrade kit can be found for less than $450 now, OEM X01 cranks can be found on eBay for $300. Maxxis tires $55 shipped from Europe. A take-off dropper from BikeYoke or OneUp can easily be found for $300. Saving $50-100 on each component adds up pretty quickly.
I get light XC race bikes. I just don’t get 28-30 lb short travel bikes.
Short travel bikes with aggressive geometry and wheels/tires that don't disintegrate are super fun. Not as fast as a longer travel bike in the rough and not the thing if you're looking to put out spandex and breathe out your eyeballs, but much more engaging to ride on tamer flow trails, jump trails, and longer alpine rides.
I also have a more classic enduro bike in the 36lb range for when the trails get rough/fast have bigger features and might involve a shuttle bump.
So there is still some differences even though weight is similar. If I lived in flatter terrain, Midwest? I think the shorter travel bikes will be more fun, despite their weight. But obviously, the lighter the better.
I’m on a Ripmo-and it’s efficient and easy to have fun on, even on mellower trails.
The advantages of a shorter stroke shock are pretty minor when it’s bolted into a heavier bike.
The little bike pedals, pumps, jumps, and flicks better than the similar weight & geo 150mm trail bike I replaced it with did, and is easier to chuck around in and out of corners. Less travel means less bump absorption, but it also means more stable geometry which I've found I really like! The little bike does get overwhelmed in rough terrain faster and beats me up a bit more on longer rough rides.
Try one if you can and see what you think, YMMW.
I got mine after I tried both a short travel trail (process 111 w/ an angleset) and a more aggressive "enduro" bike (Megatower). Those experiences prompted me to sell my 150 carbon jack of all trades trail bike and build up two reasonably specced (slx/gx drivetrains, quality suspension & brakes with aluminum wheels) aluminum rigs, one 120/130 air shock bike that's 31lbs and a 155/160 coil shock enduro/am bike that's closer to 36 lbs.
Did this right before the pandemic for a total spend of around $1,500 (bought lightly used did all the work and part swaps myself and got $3,500 for the two-year-old used bike). Geometry is similar between the two new bikes (within .5 degrees of 65 head angle with 450 mm-ish reaches, shortish 435mm stays, and moderately low bb heights).
Both are better and worse at things specific things than the 31 lb carbon 150mm trail bike they replaced. Covered the little bike already but the big bike is what you'd think--a bit more stable at speed, smashes and sends a lot better, but is "boring/muted" on tamer trails and is definitely more work on big pedal days. Both still do go on big pedal rides, but only one gets shuttled or taken to lifts--and it's the other that probably sees more mileage.
Very happy to have two bikes v. one. #blessed
I would like to try a down country bike for riding trails. That at lease makes sense to me. I thinking a spur if I can find one. And, yes I'm a dentist.
The TB3 was a downhillers XC bike, the TB4 and TB5 are downhillers short travel trail bikes… maybe?
I switched the TB4 to a Ripmo V2 and moved over my parts- (extended the fox36 to 160)
I’ve been faster just about everywhere on the Ripmo, including the climbs. It is true that on rolling / flatter terrain the TB4 was more fun. Compared to something like and Epic Evo it’s in a different class on the downhills, but it simply can’t hang with the 140+ bikes on rough terrain at higher speeds.
Who is the TB5 for? I’d say someone who wants their bike to say “Santa Cruz’ and likes the warranty + bearing coverage. They live somewhere without really big mountains, but they travel to places with bigger mountains from time to time. They aren’t worried about climbing faster than a bigger bike (and they won’t) but they like the way a shorter travel bike feels. There really is something to the platform / mid stroke support coming sooner on shorter travel bikes.
TBH I was expecting a total redesign of the Tallboy to something more like the Spur, Stumpjumper, or Rocky’s new Element. Instead they put a hole in the frame and made it heavier and more expensive.
Get an „All Mountain“ with about 150 and make it even more versatile if you want with wheels, tires, coil shocks or whatever. Either direction is possible.
I haven’t ridden a Spur or an Element in the same terrain… for folks who really want to ride a short travel bike hard, the TB is certainly built to take the abuse. I guess my point is that there are bikes that are faster downhill without giving up speed uphill, and there are bikes that are a LOT faster on XC and rolling terrain. FUN is harder to quantify… I had a lot of fun on my TB and it was trouble free.
It’s a LOT more capable than the TB3 was downhill, and is still the best descending short travel bike I’ve tried.
I guess my point is, there are significantly lighter bikes that are only slightly less capable downhill, (and even easier to pop and chuck around) and there are equally light bikes with a bit more travel that are faster when things get rough. I totally agree that a short travel bike with good geo and a sturdy frame can be a blast, and it was my one bike for some great adventures. I do miss the extra liveliness and pop sometimes vs the Ripmo… I’ve just noticed that I get *slightly* better times uphill and down on the Ripmo running the same parts, which is interesting.
There’s no harm in being spoiled for choice with good bikes, and the TB still fills a niche quite nicely.
“We cut a hole into the frame. You can store your weed in there.”
(BC Bud has entered the chat) "Hello, may I help your Tallboy float uphill today?"
That said, I have never owned a Reverb (except an AXS reverb for this season), and have always stuck with Fox Transfers. For how much praise the Fox post gets, and how much I generally prefer Fox products (can't say no to that matchy kashima post), they tend to have way more issues. It surprised me how much praise they get for reliability. I've had 7-8 Transfer posts across my bikes and my partner's bikes, and I want to say that only 1 of them made it to the 1 year point before it stopped getting full travel and needed a service. These new Reverbs seem to go on for 1-2 years before showing signs of needing a service.
When I bought my last bike I didn’t even bother using the reverb and picked up a one up the same day (and a functional upgrade from 170 to 210mm). Sold the reverb to offset the cost of the oneup.
I still don't know what your point is. Two bikes with the same reach, one with a longer head tube. If the one with the shorter head tube requires spacers then it will shorten the effective reach to achieve the same stack as the bike with the longer head tube.
A longer head tube doesn't make a bike longer in itself but means you are less likely to need to shorten the reach by increasing stack height.
If you still think I’m wrong then please show me the mathematics.
Re: your though experiment with glued spacers, yes, if you do this before the bike's geometry chart is published, it will change the reach of the bike when you glue the spacer on there. But it won't change the length.
No options for Reserve wheels with mechanical shifting
only speccing the older 10-50T casettes
Speccing the GX AXS remote on the X01 AXS kit
Fox shock with RS forks across the board
Plus it is still such a shame that you could spend $5300 and end up with a bike with sram hubs...
I mean why even bother.
There's no way anyone could tell the difference of 3mm BB height
What's your thinking?
Coils fit. Just get a proper tune with it and it’s extremely good
I did have the bike built up like an enduro bike though (coil, lyrik, 2.5 DHFs, etc)
If you were riding a 4 year old design in 2018, you would have a pretty steep 2014 HTA. My current 4 year old bike (Stumpjumper EVO) is shaped just like a brand new bike and does all the same things.
I absolutely loved my dark purple 2020 Tallboy, but I bought it a size too big (trusted the SC website to an XL, but it rode like an XXL). If I had bought a L, I may still have it.
All to say, pedal strikes are real with the Tallboy, it demands 165 mm cranks in all sizes, and a bash guard. Really tempted to swipe up a blue CC frame and build it right.
With DHF/DHR it was my enduro / trail bike
Now with WTB Rangers it's my XC / trail bike.
Does it all!
My V2 HIghtower is my main bike and takes on enduro duties now.
Can be turned into an absolute animal of a bike
Top fuel has carbon rims but they house brand and house brand hubs that i wouldnt trust
House brand dropper
House brand bars and stem
Bontrager tires
Santa cruz has dt hubs on aluminum RF wheels.
Reverb dropper
Burgtec bars and stem
Maxxis tires
I would go for the SC, sell the dropper and put a one up on.
Stop complaining keyboard warriors and go ride you bike.
I have a Norco Optic (140mm/125mm) but would consider this a downgrade to get less suspension (130mm/120mm).
Turns great, can't brake.
What is _wrong_ with people?
Where can I put my £10000 wedge down - ooooo YEAH ! in your ma's g-strings
You do get reserve wheels on i9 which is pretty special and no doubt it's a sweet bike, but lord this sport is getting expensive
Look at the low end C model compared to the highest C model. There is a $4200 price difference! It’s basically NX to GX (AXS), Pike Base, to Pike Select+, Raceface to Reserve, Guide to G2. I don’t want to do the research or math right now… but I know that is not a $4200 difference in components cost.
Buy a frame you like, buy your own components, assemble your own bike… and save!
NX to GX AXS Group - $400/$900
RS Base to Select+ - $700/$800
Fox Perf to Perf Elite - $330/$430
Raceface to Reserve - $600/$1600
Guide T to G2 RS - $200/$300
SDG Tel to Reverb - $250/$350
RF bars to SC bars - $40/$140
CC 10 to CC 40 - $40/$60
Total diff - $2560/$4580 = $2020
Frame only is a ridiculous $4000 (CC with Fox Factory). With that as a baseline you could build the same X01 bike for:
RF Arc30 - $800
Maxxis/Sealant - $200
Pike Ultimate - $900
XO1 mech - $1100
G2 RSC/discs - $440
RS Reverb - $350
RS bars/stem - $200
Saddle - $50
CC 40 - $60
Total - $8100 with exact parts ($500 cheaper), but also could be cheaper with other components (save $300-$1000 with OneUp, Spesh tires, DT Swiss and bargain shopping. I suspect the Pikes they are shipping with early on are 2022 models, which can be bought for $250 off right now.