Powered by Outside

First Ride: The New RockShox Vivid Ultimate Shock

Aug 17, 2023
by Dario DiGiulio  
photo

It's been some time since RockShox unveiled a completely new model in the shock department, as the past few years have seen more incremental - albeit significant - updates to the existing SuperDeluxe. That changes with the announcement of their new Vivid, an air shock squarely aimed at the gravity-oriented side of the sport.

The Vivid was designed ground-up to offer the best downhill performance the team at RockShox could deliver, with a new architecture and damping platform to achieve that goal. They promise coil-like sensitivity with all the intuitive adjustments their current lineup is known for, but does that shake out on the trail?

Vivid Ultimate Details

• Intended use: Downhill, Enduro, eMTB
• TouchDown position-sensitive damping
• Adjustable hydraulic bottom-out
• External LSC/HSC/Rebound adjustment
• 100-hour service interval
• Claimed weight: 670 grams (230x65, no hardware)
• MSRP: $699-729 USD
• More info: rockshox.com


photo
The Vivid has a sharp look, with a seriously large presence.
photo
You'll want to check frame clearance before pulling the trigger.

Vivid Details

It's been about a decade since the Vivid last saw an update, with the prior generation ending before suspension manufacturers made the switch to metric shock sizing. That prior generation was unique for RockShox in its use of dual rebound adjusters, but that's far from the only difference to the new model. The 2024 Vivid is implementing some very clever designs that allow it to achieve the performance goals laid out, while hopefully remaining far more durable than the predecessor.

The majority of the novel technologies for the Vivid are wrapped up in what RockShox is calling TouchDown technology. TouchDown is a position-sensitive damper that allows the shock to work in three distinct phases, with characteristics optimized for each section of the full stroke of travel.

photo
Think of this sequence in accordance to the sag gradient.

0-10% This is one of the more unique aspects of the Vivid, as in this first increment of travel the oil flow actually bypasses the main piston compression damping, instead flowing through an array of holes only located in that phase of travel. The purpose here is to make the Vivid's initial stroke as supple and sensitive as possible, without affecting the remainder of the travel.

10-80% You'll be spending most of your time here, and this is where the Vivid should feel more or less like you'd expect. The air volume of the shock was maximized in order to give this middle block as linear a feel as possible, with the ability to add progression via Bottomless Tokens. This is also where the High and Low Speed Compression adjusters do their work, providing the ride characteristic that best matches your frame and ride style.

80-100% In the final chunk of travel you run into the Adjustable Hydraulic Bottom Out (AHBO), which allows the user to tune the bottom-out resistance at the end of the stroke. This separate circuit has a different feel from the ramp-up you get with volume spacers, and is more of a soft catch that slows the shock down in that high-load moment.

photo

You have to drop the air can to add or remove volume spacers, but the main adjustments can all be made externally. The LSC adjustment is made via a knurled knob, while the HSC, AHBO, and rebound all use a 3mm hex. Luckily, the rebound adjustment knob contains a hidden 3mm that you can simply pop out and use to make the other adjustments - a clever detail indeed. While RockShox only gives access to low speed rebound externally, you can alter the high speed rebound via the internal rebound tune. Definitely less convenient than an external adjuster, and best left to be done by professionals, but know that it's an option.

photo
AHBO tucked up top.
photo
And HSC located on the reservoir.

The Threshold (aka climb switch) lever is quite firm, both in physical feel and in how stiff it makes the shock. I really only used it on a few paved climbs, but was happy with the amount of support it provides. If you happen to like a quite soft setup for the descents, the Threshold should still be able to hold you up for the pedal back to the top.

One last detail worth noting is the service interval on the new Vivid. Where most shocks call for a basic service every 50 hours, the Vivid specifies a 100-hour interval before you have to worry about tearing things down. Of course it's always worth taking such claims with a grain of salt until they've been thoroughly tested long-term, so we'll see how things shake out.

Ride Impressions

I've had the opportunity to ride the new Vivid on a few bikes at this point, but the majority of the testing has taken place on the Santa Cruz Nomad and the Yeti SB160. Two very different bikes when it comes to how they drive their shocks, but equally capable in rough and challenging terrain. They even use the same 230x65mm shock size, albeit with very different tunes. This made for a good spectrum to compare within, and see how the shock performed given the differences in frame design.

I'm happy to say that the main commonality between the two was how well they played with the Vivid. Both bikes retained an active feel, cycling through the suspension smoothly and predictably as you'd want them to. This allowed for excellent grip and bump absorption, while still providing enough support to push against in compressions and help keep the ride height neutral.

photo
The rebound knob.
photo
With a trick up its sleeve.

photo
Works on all the other adjusters as well.

A satisfying realization was just how different the Vivid's settings were between the two bikes, and I was able to find an optimal setup on both after just an afternoon of bracketing the various compression settings. Like the recently updated SuperDeluxe, each position of compression adjustment provides a clear and discernible difference, with the visual reference helping you clock between multiple settings if you want to change certain clicks for specific tracks. Bonus points to RockShox for the continued use of the sag markings, now I just want them to release that patent so every shock on the market can be that easy to set up.

The final accolade worth pointing out is just how quiet the shock is. This, coupled with the very muted feel it provides, helps the bike fade into the background and keep you focused on the trail ahead. Some shocks have a distinct feel or characteristic, but so far I'd say the Vivid's strong suit is just how neutral it can feel when you get the settings dialed in.

Lineup

The Vivid comes in 5 different spec levels, with the Ultimate aimed at the broadest part of the market. This is the primary aftermarket option, with the DH shock obviously focused more on bikes that are entirely gravity-fed. The lower 3 specs will likely be more common on OEM spec-sheets, and can be modified into the Ultimate range of adjustment with some aftermarket parts. If for instance you have a Vivid Base but want the full Ultimate package, you will be able to buy the TouchDown RC2T reservoir upgrade and bolt it in place of the Base one. This upgrade reservoir costs $235 USD, and could be a great option for bikes that will be coming with the lower-spec Vivids down the line.

photo
The full model rundown.

Another aftermarket element to the Vivid launch is the introduction of RockShox's Bearing Adapter Kits, which can replace the standard DU bushing mount with bearing hardware, where frames allow (8mm ID x 30mm hardware required). This kit also fits the 2023 SuperDeluxe Coil shocks, adding some tuning options to the existing lineup. Bearing mounts can help reduce friction in the linkage, and improve the sensitivity of certain kinematics quite a bit. The Bearing Adapter Kit costs $30 USD.



We'll be spending plenty more time with the Vivid on a variety of bikes in the coming weeks and months, so stay tuned for the long term thoughts. In the meantime, the short story is a positive one, with the Vivid upping its smaller SuperDeluxe sibling, and posing a real challenge to the Fox Float X2.




Author Info:
dariodigiulio avatar

Member since Dec 25, 2016
214 articles
Report
Must Read This Week
Sign Up for the Pinkbike Newsletter - All the Biggest, Most Interesting Stories in your Inbox
PB Newsletter Signup

343 Comments
  • 220 3
 x2 is squirming. no actually.
  • 191 1
 X2 is squelching in its seat
  • 55 1
 Finally sent my '21 X2 back to Fox and they sent a new '24 X2 factory back at no cost. Hoping they've addressed all the issues, cause the old X2 truly was garbage (although to be fair immediately after a service it felt amazing).
  • 37 5
 @Jvhowube: I have the 2024 and it has been amazing (was sent to me after sending in a warranty 2022). I would love this new vivid, but to be honest the new X2 has been so good that I have no complaints.
  • 4 4
 @ksilvey10: but wait there is more ha!
  • 26 3
 @ksilvey10: Same. Fox has fixed the issue that was causing warranty replacements, they will send you a new one. Asheville service dept took care of it the same day. Zero complaints. X2 rocks for me.
  • 8 39
flag lkubica (Aug 17, 2023 at 7:43) (Below Threshold)
 x2 is squirting actually (with oil, from a bleed port, lot's of this porn on the internet).
  • 7 0
 I find it annoying when they release a product like this and none are available to buy. Does anyone have a link to prove me wrong?
  • 3 0
 @PHX77: Pre-orders currently it seems.
  • 4 0
 @PHX77: i'm pretty sure they are available over at s4suspension.com !!
  • 15 3
 @MattMach07: The Fox service people here in BC were amazing. They had my '23 X2 redone with '24 upgrades in a few days. I ended up riding a Super Deluxe Ultimate for two months on the same bike. It also blew up. It was a good shock, supportive and light, but it couldn't touch the plushness and adjustability of the X2.
  • 7 0
 @Jvhowube: I just sent mine out a couple of days ago (same issue... aeration/cavitation of damper circuit). I hope they update as well. The X2 performed worse on my bike than the DPX2 did anyway.
  • 3 0
 @microfiz: In what way did it perform worse?
  • 4 2
 This just in, Fox fears for its life and buys out Sram....I am running the 2024 Float X2, feels great, longevity will be the real test.
  • 4 1
 @rrolly: disclaimer: I have the X2 base performance model (no compression adjustments) so this may be the reason... but that shock had very little mid-stroke support compared to the DPX2. I'm sure the factory tune has something to do with it, but it did not feel good on my bike.. and I am not finicky about suspension settings.
  • 3 1
 @microfiz: Makes sense. X2 Factory is super adjustable.
  • 17 1
 @ksilvey10: after 3 failed x2’s fox sent me a 2024 and it has been flawless. I keep waiting for the familiar squelch but after beating it up multiple days in whistler it’s still perfect. Fingers crossed they finally solved it. At least their warranty has been easy to deal with through all that nonsense
  • 2 0
 @Jvhowube:
What has actually changed on the 2024?
  • 25 0
 @notthatfast: from Fox website
NEW base valve piston design and compression tune for increased damping performance and improved sensitivity
NEW bearing housing seal package virtually eliminates possibility of aeration
NEW scraper seal for improved durability
NEW more robust eyelet design on trunnion models
NEW 7000 series shock body on all models
NEW hard chrome damper shaft finish for increased durability
MCU bottom-out bumper for end-stroke progressivity
  • 14 1
 @Jvhowube: MY 2024 HAS BEEN REALLY GOOD ON MY SPIRE
  • 2 0
 @polmagz: me too fingers crossed
  • 26 1
 @polmagz: why are you yelling this at everyone?
  • 1 2
 @astro99:
Good to know. Though I remain skeptical.
  • 4 0
 @rrolly: it was probably your bike blowing the shocks then if after a couple weeks you managed to blow the rs too
  • 12 0
 @polmagz: GOBBLESS, SAY HI TO BARB.
  • 1 0
 @samchouinard: I'm seeing the 2020 and 2022 versions only.
  • 3 1
 @polmagz: LOUD NOISES!
  • 4 0
 @idontknowwhatiexpected: Good deal. I am not a fanboi of either brand as I think they both make great stuff and there was just an unexpected materials issue with the 22-23 x2. I am sure this vivid will be just as good or better. I'm just a fan of good stuff in general and don't think for a second I would be faster if I switched either way.
  • 1 0
 @samchouinard: at $300 over msrp...
  • 6 0
 Just curious, has anyone sent in a Fox X2 for service rather than warranty and gotten a newer model in return? I noticed most of the comments were related to warranty.
  • 8 4
 @amack5: but how are yall running a 2024 when it's only 2023?
  • 24 0
 @baca262: Fox had to travel to the future to fix the X2.
  • 5 0
 @Jvhowube: I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised. the '24's are holding their guts in.
  • 3 0
 @baca262: Welcome to the mtb industry
  • 2 0
 @nickfranko: I did. Didn't think sending purchasing info would matter since I was a bit over the warranty period, but they encouraged me to do it anyways.
  • 2 2
 More like it's peeing its pants. Not even sure if it's properly sorted on the latest models Frown
  • 14 2
 @baca262: 2024 for the X2 is the expiry date not the year of manufacture
  • 2 0
 @shredddr: here's the link to the shock itself:
s4suspension.com/products/rockshox
  • 3 0
 @JamesPBlaw: it's in cad$ Smile
  • 2 0
 @samchouinard: haha what a dummy I am.
  • 2 0
 @astro99: the 7000 series shock body should make a big difference. The old shock body was worse overall due to using a weaker aluminum and was cracking on the threads. My 2022 X2 that I bought August 2022 had a cracked shock body within a couple months of normal use when I took it in to service. I got the old shock body back and it has cracks forming in two places
  • 2 0
 @ksilvey10: imagine not being able to ship it easily E.G the whole world besides USA and Canada. Failed products are no bueno even if there is pristine warranty.
Especially bikes themselves, for example Spezialized made Ebikes in 2020 that litearlly broke engines on every single ride. It was absolute trash, and a abuse to the customer.
  • 3 0
 I got my X2 upgraded and while it felt fine at first, long term reliability is disappointing. After 30 days of hard riding, shock loses pressure throughout a ride. I’d go Rock Shox any day over how finicky the X2 is.
  • 1 1
 @zyoungson: don't even get started on the automotive industry
  • 1 0
 @cogsci: There's no oil left in it
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: Good point, I'm wondering if I can get one swapped instead of getting the LBS to rebuild it yet again...
  • 2 0
 @nickfranko: just sent mine in to be serviced a few weeks ago and they just sent me back a 24 instead. Totally worth the process.
  • 1 0
 @polmagz: Does anyone know how can we tell we have a 2024 DHX2? I got a new bike earlier this year and pretty afraid the shock will fall into pieces soon..
  • 2 0
 @Padded: enter the four digit code from the shock in the Fox bike product look up.
  • 1 0
 @Padded: Or you can look at the top of the shock to see where the screw is. If it's on the top it's pre-2024, if it's on the side, it's 2024
  • 1 0
 @rrolly: There is no 4 digit code on it...

Does that work even if it's Trunnion?
  • 2 1
 @Padded: All Fox products, at least post 2018, should have an alphanumeric tune ID that is 4 characters long.
  • 1 0
 @Padded: *all Fox shocks/forks.
  • 1 0
 @Padded: just based on what i was told by the service tech when
i was doing my warranty
  • 2 0
 @FaahkEet: eh...
Not anymore. Serial numbers only from here on out. On the seal head.
  • 1 0
 @konadan: oh, interesting and good to know. Someone was very adamant they had a very new 38 but I saw a tune ID. They are in for a surprise.
  • 2 0
 @FaahkEet: this is for shocks, and its actually kinda hit and miss.
  • 2 0
 @FaahkEet: Working on a newish 36 Fit4 off a yeti currently. No tune Id. Only numbers are on the backside of crown, and there's a qr code on the steerer to scan. Serial numbers only.
  • 2 1
 @Jvhowube: and Im over here running an 09 dhx air that hasn't been rebuilt in close to a decade and it still runs great!!
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: Yes I did, last February. I dropped my Fox 36 and X2 for service in Burnaby, BC, and got a brand new 2024 X2. They sent me an email asking for permission not to service my old one LOL. I only paid the service for the 36.
  • 1 0
 @Padded: Yes. The placement of the screw on the top of the piece that caps the shaft is one of the reasons these units were failing. The 2024's or units that were repaired now have the screw on the side.
  • 1 0
 @rrolly: Welp, I got my return,,, and it isn't my shock (base Performance). They sent back a Factory X2 instead (Kashima, the works). Now I'm in deep trouble... lol! So many knobs!
  • 2 0
 @microfiz: Start with HSC one click from open. LSC 2-3 from open and rebound in the middle and go from there
  • 2 0
 @microfiz: The recommended settings that come back with the shock are a really good place to start (theirs a chart in that booklet). If you don't have it, dm me and I'll send you a pic of mine. Then after that do a little bracketing. Feel free to message me if you're confused.
  • 2 0
 @rrolly: thanks, man! I think I'm good. I've had other shocks with LSC HSC and I had it figured out. Good on Fox for sending me an upgrade. Hopefully I can really appreciate how good the shock is.
  • 127 2
 100hr service interval....translated in my brain..."Ok, I'll never service it until it breaks"
  • 73 0
 What is a service interval?
  • 96 0
 @haen: new bike day!
  • 17 0
 considering Ohlins said they sell far more forks than service kits, I'd say your spot on with most riders
  • 6 17
flag ShredDoggg FL (Aug 17, 2023 at 8:16) (Below Threshold)
 @haen: 100 hrs
  • 16 5
 These suggested service cycles are like buying a cheap printer and paying premium prices for ink cartridges. Worse thing is, the shock is not cheap in this case and the service cost still adds up depending on how much you ride in a season! Over time, those service cycles will pretty much exceed the cost of the shock in like 2-4 years. Like, who services their rear shock even twice in a year?
  • 45 4
 @CSharp: I do my service every interval, which is about every five weeks or so for me. The shock works much better; more supple, more predictable throughout the stroke. This comment isn't directed at you, but it baffles me how people spend $3-6k on a high end, high tech, overdesigned toy and can't be troubled to keep it working at its best. That's just me though.
  • 8 0
 @ShredDoggg: my comment was a joke, implying that most people don't service their suspension.
  • 12 1
 @CSharp: unless it’s an X2, then you realize the 100 hour service service cycle is supposed to be more like 20 hours.
  • 5 0
 @haen: Lol, I don't because I know I'm going to blow it up within a month.
  • 10 0
 @haen: it's when you sell your bike. the next guy services it.
  • 2 0
 @nickfranko: 20 minutes
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: Mine lasted 10 hours after coming back from warranty around mid 2021 and sat unused since. It is in for warranty again now, hopefully the updates sort the issue.
  • 1 0
 @zyoungson: sounds about right. My 2021 is sitting disassembled in a bag. I might try sending it to them if they’ll send me a 2024.
  • 7 1
 I do the air sleeve service regularly to prevent stanchion wear. It's a 10 minute job and it costs half a rag and some oil. Don't bother with a new seal kit unless there is a leak. And if you are servicing it regularly you can use 20 wt oil instead of that sticky 35 wt that comes OEM because punters don't change their oil. It's lube, not damping fluid. I've used 7.5 wt in a pinch.
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: That could be a longshot but by the sounds of things fox has been really good with supplying updates. Im amazed it has taken them so long, and the fact there have been problems in the first pace considering the 2020 models were pretty good.
  • 4 0
 @CSharp: Or like buying a car and getting upset that you have change the oil every few months… it’s a common routine service.
  • 1 1
 @RusMan: Bro, that is really an excellent point. LOL
  • 2 0
 "Be Ye transformed by the renewing of your mind" and service that suspension! The blessings will be abundant and the burdens lifted.
  • 1 5
flag likeittacky (Aug 17, 2023 at 22:21) (Below Threshold)
 @iamamodel: Your warranty is now void. lol

The wiper seal new and properly serviced shock -will allow fresh oil / lube to bypass the wiper seal coating the stantion; so that would be considered a leaky bad seal according to youWink ? Also removing an air sleeve too much can compromise the integrity of the seal, thus causing contaminates to infiltrate the shock and damage your beloved stantion that you try preventing from wear; eventually.

A better solution is just use a microfiber rag to wipe clean the stantion and wiper before each ride, or at least when any buildup occurs, then service using a new kit, with recommended fluids, at the recommended intervals or when stiction is evident.
  • 2 0
 @CSharp: people who ride 400 hrs a year and want every ride to end with a working bike rather than with a major component failure.
  • 2 1
 @CSharp: The service costs is like 90% labour, 10% parts, so it's not Rockshox/fox who are making money off of service, it's local mechanics.

If you're riding over 100 hrs a year you should definitely learn how to do a lower service on your fork, then it just cost $5 in materials for a bulk foam ring and some oil. It only takes 30 minutes once you've done it a few times and is very simple.

It also definitely makes a difference in performance and longevity.
  • 9 1
 So far we have 100 dingbats that think a simple 50-100 hr shock service must be such a difficult task and cannot find 1 rainy day to perform it! Then in time when the Shock starts to fail, their all flustered that they can't ride and the warranty department is reluctant to repair the shock free of charge. LMAO!

People will spend agonizing pain and energy installing tire inserts and deal with a possible trail side tire issue, but won't invest in the basics of a simple service is baffling to me and express's idiocracy even tho the attended colleges and have jobs and families. Frown
  • 2 0
 @CSharp: I 100% agree that a seal kit should not cost almost $50! Although riding modern high performance MTB comes with a premium and to do such a basic service, is to me crucial in maintaining the optimum performance of the component and likely save a lot of anguish, time and $$$ it the future.

And yes, i have in the past, gone without doing a service or had these failures but learn quickly to address them when needed and reap the noticeable fruits of that labor.

TOO MANY times i have been riding with people that have the (never service mentality) and the oil is oozing everywhere around the seals collecting dust and mud like a butterfly net !
  • 2 3
 @JonHans8n: If you have to constantly spend time and money maintaining a car every few months, you'd sell that POS immediately to get one where it's lower maintenance or find a better solution like getting better oil and filter or whatever parts last longer and where the service cycle is a lot less. Maybe that's why so many people are getting new bikes every year as they don't want to deal with maintenance.

I'm not complaining about having to maintain an investment, It's a necessary measure to make the parts and equipment work as expected. Imagine if you need to service the front and/or the rear strut/shocks on your car every 50-100 hours? LOL
  • 1 2
 @likeittacky: In some places and for some people, there's no such thing as a rainy day! Wink
  • 2 0
 @schili: You could not be more wrong. service kit + fluid makes up at least 1/4 of the price. Then you have the tooling. Cost me about $1200 in tooling for the 21+ shock. Us local techs are not making much on it when you look at how deep we've gone into tooling . To be capable of servicing your X2. Blame someone else.
  • 1 0
 @konadan: Dude, I wasn't blaming anyone... I'm very happy supporting local high quality mechanics and tools/overhead, and paying that money to you guys. Just pointing out that ~$40 for seals materials isn't making the manufacturers rich. You're also right, I just looked at my last invoice, it was 75% for shop time, 25% for materials.
  • 1 0
 Cane Creek db air is 100. Fox says 125. The 50 hour air can services probably would be recommended if you could get to the main dust wiper without needing to open up the damper.
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: What are you on about? I'm only doing it at the proper service intervals, my point was that people don't need new seals every time you do an air sleeve service (which is why people were saying regular servicing will eventually cost more than the shock). I lived through the first generation of air shocks and forks, I know what a proper leaky shock looks like. I understand that there is 'normal' seepage and I know what it looks like.
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel: Which is true and why a seal kit should only be $10, not almost 50! I disagree though with the weight of lubricants you are telling people to use when the MFG has done their homework on what is the proper viscosity to condition moving parts and all seals for the life of suspension. Sure other weights may work but are not optimum for longevity and can void a warranty if the MFG deems them inappropriate.

If an automobile manual says to use 5w30 oil, you only should use that specified oil, not 10, not 40 but only 5w30.
They designed the vehicle and know better than the average brain, what is fitting for the vehicle. IMO this applies more today with high end expensive suspension, than did in the past and should be done as specified by what the engineers have designed and tested for their product. Thats all. Smile
  • 72 2
 „The 2024 Vivid is implementing some very clever designs that allow it to achieve the performance goals laid out, while hopefully remaining far more durable than the predecessor.“

It doesn’t need to beat the previous Vivid, it only needs to beat the X2
  • 48 2
 Why set the bar so low?
  • 21 2
 It didn't blow up during the video, so it already passed the sorry as* X2...
  • 9 0
 Most importantly, I hope it can be DIY serviced without needing $150+ in specialized tools, as that’s always been a pain point for the X2. Not to mention that they then swap stuff in generations that require yet more tools, and make your previous tools useless.
  • 5 0
 @nickfranko: according to vital the 200h service tool kit is 140$/170)
  • 3 0
 @Upduro: That's a bit more expensive than the 0 special tools for Super Deluxe rebuilds, but they essentially pay themselves off after the 1st rebuild.
  • 2 2
 @nickfranko: gotta keep shareholders happy. Suspension companies are arguably more like a tool company these days. Pushing new and injustifiable overpriced tools every other year.
Talk to any mechanic/machinist, they laugh at the ridiculous prices of Fox’s ifp depth setter and so on…
  • 4 3
 @nickfranko: Rockshox might use less tools than fox, but they charge a ridiculous amount for them. And while nearly every component of a fox shock can be rebuilt, with Rockshox you can be stuck buying expensive assemblies, or in some cases, a new shock. Instead of making shaft/metering rod assemblies serviceable, you buy an entire assembly when it fails vs. a 10 cent o ring. Oil leaking out the hbo adjuster? (Which has been happening, I saw a few at the suspension service shop I was working at) you’re looking at a $270 resi assy instead of, again, a 10 cent o ring. After looking through the service procedure, there are also a fair amount of specialized tools for this shock, maybe more than Rockshox has ever required. It’s worth noting that it is not a twin tube damper, which other shocks that look like this are (x2, cane creek, Ohlins). It seems that there is a fair bit of over complication and marketing on this product and that it isn’t quite the competition to other products on the market that RS is making it seem to be.
  • 51 3
 Is that a Mike Levey missing child milk carton on your shirt Dario?
Snap your fingers one more time and make my favorite PB editor appear!
  • 4 0
 Can we get these on PB shop please?
  • 31 4
 100 hr service interval is likley because, like the Fox Float X2, you cannot do a basic air can service without fully tearing the shock down and doing a full rebuild.

Everyone was so stoked to se the return of the Vivid Air. I hope it is vastly improved, because I recall it being a bit of a dead unsupportive turd previously. Smile

The spring force chart speaks the truth, a coil is more sensitive off the top and much more supportive in the mid stroke. Add a good bottom out bumper or HBO and that's all you need. #coilforlife
  • 7 1
 you can do only air can service on the new vivid
  • 1 1
 Unlike the old one the aircan can be serviced separately, think of a coil shock with an air can attachment as and extea instead of the spring.

More than likely service intervals has dropped and changed due to modern bikes and users being more aggressive and less service conscious, resulting in excessive wear and tear.

Note the writer saying not to take as gospel, in the UK and Scotland thoses service intervals WILL drop substantialy due our shite weather and "most" peoples lack of service knowledge /acceptance.

Old one was a love hate relationship.
  • 1 0
 @marcellus: And probably the reason the rebound knob is removable like it is.
  • 32 5
 Why not just put permanent knobs on all the adjusters? I'd rather have an extra 20g of weight and not have to fumble with a small easily droppable piece when tweaking the suspension.
  • 37 3
 The rebound knob is removable so you can pop the air can off. As for the others, my guess is the overall size / fitment was the concern.
  • 15 0
 @dariodigiulio: Removable, as in where-did-it-go removable? It looks like one of those pieces you better have a spare of......
  • 21 1
 @RayDolor: Given it's just a metric hex, this is a non issue. Worst case scenario use your multitool
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: Have you torn it down to do a service yet? I’m curious if it is easier to work on than the last version or still a time consuming PITA
  • 8 0
 Cane Creek DB Air Kitsuma for you
  • 2 0
 @solidautomech: Are you talking the previous version of the Vivid, or the Ultimate? I found working on the Ultimate not much of an issue at all.
  • 2 0
 @dariodigiulio: What keeps the knob from falling out mid-ride? If you can pull it out by hand pretty easily, it seems it's just gonna drop on the trail if some brush hits it.
  • 17 0
 @TET1: it clicks into place, and given the force required to remove it I don't see how it could just fall out
  • 28 0
 I have more than enough permanent knobs in my life as is
  • 5 13
flag Segamethod FL (Aug 17, 2023 at 8:53) (Below Threshold)
 @TET1: Let's say the little adjuster part weighs 10 grams. It undergoes a massive 30g acceleration exactly in the direction of removal. F=m*a, so multiply those together and you get .66 lbs. Does it take more than .66lbs to pull it out of its recess? Good -- you'll never lose it while riding.
  • 1 0
 @Segamethod: If it clicks into place (detent), there's a lot more force holding it in than you've accounted for.
  • 5 0
 @RayDolor: removable as in old-Rock Shox-fork-rebound-adjuster.
  • 2 0
 @TET1: My old Rockshox Reba fork has something similar for the rebound adjuster, it inserts into the bottom of the fork so it's directly in line of gravity and along the direction of motion. It never came out despite taking way harder hits than a 100mm fork is supposed to handle.
  • 4 0
 Just like rebound knobs from 2000s rockshox forks. They were always missing.
  • 2 1
 @dariodigiulio: they could use a grub screw to keep it & put proper knobs elsewhere instead of making the removable knob a 'feature'.
  • 1 1
 @slowandcontrolled: I am on muly first shock with a tool, vs hand adjust and I can say it sucks. If you are one to just ride and never adjust, fine, but trying to fiddle with a small tool with gloves on every time I want to adjust a click or two is a PITA. I adjust for the day often enough. And, hate worrying about losing it while riding. Will be going to a full no tool adjust soon enough.
  • 1 0
 *my
  • 1 0
 @jcelli2013: having just been tuning the Air IL with it's awkward little hex adjusters, I do kind-of wish they made the Kitsuma Air in 190x45
  • 1 0
 @mammal: @mammal: That's exactly the point I was trying to make. If the force retaining the widget is greater than the force exerted on the widget during an extreme acceleration, then the widget will remain retained. You determine that threshold force by multiplying the mass of the object by an assumed maximum acceleration (per Sir Issac Newton, Force = mass*acceleration). In aerospace (RTCA DO-160), a 20g (20x the acceleration due to gravity) acceleration is a commonly used for crash safety analysis, so I'd say my assumed 30g acceleration is pretty conservative. If you have an acceleration occurring on a bike ride that's 50% greater than a plane crashing, losing your widget is the least of your concerns, perhaps.
  • 1 0
 @Segamethod: Since v=a*t, and x=a*t*t a 30g acceleration is a 60cm/2ft huck to flat on a rigid bike with pumped up tires (more precisely, a linear deceleration in 2cm)
BMXers be like: hold my beer.

I know the real world doesn't do linear deceleration but it was fun to punch in the nrs. Would be even more fun to compare to real data.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: Nice, thanks for running the numbers. Additional assumption: rigidly locked knees and elbows… ouch
  • 2 0
 @rrolly: the previous version of the Vivid
  • 22 1
 Just asking, if the compression damping bypass is only in the first 10% of travel, wouldn't it not really be useful in real world situations given that most will be running between 25 and 30% sag? Even under rapid small bump hits, your shock probably isn't fully extending back into that portion of the stroke, where you will see the most benefit from it.
  • 27 0
 In the parking lot
  • 15 0
 I had the same thought, you are typically in that 30%+ range, but it's that initial break-in on hits after fully unweighting the bike that you may notice it.
  • 9 0
 @Becciu: ah I forgot, I bet it makes the parking lot drop test clean. Just planted on the ground
  • 9 0
 I feel like I unweight my bike quite a bit while pumping and jumping, if your rebound is fast enough and you ride fairly dynamically, you could be in that travel range often. I'd love for someone with data aqq experience to chime in.
  • 2 0
 Think of when you are really light on your heels.
  • 6 4
 This is a good thing that you won't be using it, you don't want a shock with undamped characteristics. This must be their way of applying the "buttercup" concept to a shock. Undamped top stroke.
  • 5 0
 The bypass is called TouchDown as it comes to play when you *touch down* on your landing. It should be extra plush.
  • 9 9
 Classic rockshox manoeuvre. They make (relatively) good suspension, but you always get the impression they are more concerned with how it feels when you are giving it a little squish on the shop floor, than with how it feels during actual riding...
  • 5 0
 If you are going over braking bumps for example, your shock is topped out over the "holes". This could provide better traction (tracking the terrain better) in rough corners where the rear tire gets unweighted on the backsides of bumps, rocks and roots.
  • 2 0
 @gabiusmaximus: 100%

RS updated the Lyrik's B1 air spring to the C1 because riders complained that it did not allow for accurate sag measurements. It's no coincidence that the new Lyrik & Zeb don't have sag % marketing on the stanchions.
  • 14 5
 @haen: Checking sag on a fork is a stupid maneuver regardless.
  • 14 1
 @plustiresaintdead: Running plus tires is a stupid maneuver as well
  • 2 1
 @plustiresaintdead: Yep, I have never included sag in the set-up my fork.
  • 7 13
flag plustiresaintdead FL (Aug 17, 2023 at 12:37) (Below Threshold)
 @pedalupbikes: Oh yeah? Tell that to greg minar and loic bruni, both have been testing 26x3.0 tires and spec/santa cruz are about to release the V10plus and DemoFATTY
  • 1 0
 @Becciu: looks good on their marketing writeup aswell.
  • 1 2
 @AddisonEverett
My vivid air lacked damping (I'm heavy --> high pressure --> closed rebound still too fast) so during a service I asked for a -slightly- heavier oil.
It came back too harsh, by a lot. Never had I lost pedals so much in rooty sections AND never had I felt that first ground contact after air time, so much.

So yes, no compression damping in the first 10% would have solved my 2nd issue, so I bet it's only positive here.
  • 6 2
 @plustiresaintdead: plus tyres are shit for anything above walking speed
  • 9 5
 @st-alfie: I can't imagine what the size of the dent in your skull is if you can't comprehend the level of sarcasm in that comment.
  • 11 11
 @plustiresaintdead: I'm not reading enough into your comment to decide whether you're being sarcastic or not. I see the flag next to your name and think it's a safer bet to assume you're just stupid.
  • 6 5
 @st-alfie: I guess the tables are turned for once!
  • 5 7
 @plustiresaintdead: I'm still happy with the accuracy of my assumption
  • 3 0
 The weight of your bike will send the shock past 10% travel on landing before your hands & feet take any weight. Honestly I would put it down to typical RS marketing 'features'.
Externally adjustable HSR would be more useful.
  • 3 1
 Isn’t some damping resistance in the first 10% what you want? Like I hate bikes that feel sloppy when popping pumping and moving the back wheel
  • 11 4
 @Linc: you're not pumping in the first 10% of travel
  • 2 1
 @gabiusmaximus: I agree. I was blown away by my charger 3 zeb over a small root garden on my first ride. Small bump deleter. Get it up to speed, and it’s less predictable and feels less controlled than a 38. There’s something to be said about poor assembly from the fox factory too, clean/regrease the lowers and air spring on a new 38 and it’s amazing. Definitely a pain to do on a new fork but I think it’s a better product
  • 9 1
 @dariodigiulio: What? absolutely me and many riders will pump into things from the point where their suspension is fully extended.
  • 4 1
 @Becciu: I think that is not the whole story, when riding a shock with horrible "parkinglot breakaway" I always get a horrible ridingexpirience when riding uphill/on flat ground over big roots where the bike will completely unweight in slow speeds, so I think low initial breakaway is not as useless as it seems.
  • 3 1
 @quickguitar: Yes, an old DPX 2 of mine had a horrible breakaway, which could clearly be felt in the scenario you described. Despite having 160mm travel it felt like a hardtail in topping out moments. It was very fatigueing to ride. Once i changed to a cc db coil the bike was much better, especially in those scenarios.
  • 1 3
 @Linc: sure, but that first 10% isn't helping your pump at all. Low spring force, moderate force from LSC: not much to push against. If you can get through the first 10-15% extra fast, then you'll be pumping against reasonable spring force earlier, actually doing work instead of just making the suspension slowly go through the motions.
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: That doesnt really make sense. You are saying if you make the shock resist movement less, it will get to the bit where it resists movement more, sooner.

If you make it resist movement more, it's already resisting movement. Which means you will be generating forward speed with your pump inputs, rather than just compressing your suspension...
  • 1 1
 @gabiusmaximus: it's about the time in the lower resistance area. More time spent there is more time with less to push against. Less time (thanks to very low force) in the low force area gets you more time with higher force to push against, and that's good.
  • 2 1
 @gabiusmaximus: in other words, rather be pushing against the spring force near the middle of travel than against low-speed damping force at the top of travel. So if you can skip a bunch of time at the top and get a little closer to the middle faster, it's nice.
  • 19 0
 Super cool they offer the Ultimate upgrade kit for $230 US if you get a bike equipped with the Select or Select+, nice work RS!
  • 8 0
 Stuff like that is why I preferred Rockshox even before the X2 debacle. Hopefully this shock isn't too hard to service, because that's the other pillar of what gets Rockshox on (and rarely off) my bike.
  • 1 0
 True, but why do they even offer five different build options? For a specialized downhill / high end shock as this, just do the ultimate without and with the climb switch. Maybe add a third one for oem without the compression adjuster for better "price point" (aka overpriced brands speccing it with a nx drive train and at 6k), all right. But five?
  • 1 0
 @succulentsausage: fox really isn’t any harder to service than Rockshox though, at least for a standard service. It might appear that way on the service procedure, but there is no reason to tear apart a rebound piston on a grip 2 damper during a standard procedure. That misconception comes from fox internals actually being serviceable, so they put the process in the service procedure, while Rockshox internals are either thrown away when they go bad or you might even have to send the whole product in to Rockshox. That ultimate upgrade is cool, sure, but the same thing can be done on any fox product. And if anything goes wrong in those controls, like the hbo needle o ring blowing out, then you have to replace that entire $230 assembly instead of using a $15 service kit. The only reason Rockshox service is easier is because there isn’t much you can do in there.
  • 13 3
 I'd love to know if this is an air shock that plays nicely with lighter riders. I feel like if you are in the 150-140 lb range the last 20mm of any air based suspension is useless. You end up either running a ton of sag to "use all your travel" or resign yourself to being stuck some parts of the travel you'll never see.

It would be great if pinkbike could get some lighter riders on some of this stuff to see if it is a viable alternative to coils for lighter riders.
  • 3 1
 Most air shocks have a big negative chamber where you can add a gob of grease to make it smaller. This makes the stroke more linear albeit with a little loss of off the top suppleness which doesn't matter too much since lighter riders tend to run lower pressures anyway.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer isn't that far off that weight range.
  • 6 0
 @ashmtb85: Yeah, but you do run into the problem of sometimes the grease clogging the equalizer port, so I tend to avoid it.

The fundamental problem with air springs, however, is still just the friction inherent to airtight seals. I'd be really curious if RS figured out a way of making the frictional force "light enough" for light riders to use actual air pressures instead of relying on seal friction for support--which is what you end up doing with super low PSI rates in air springs.
  • 7 1
 @DServy: my understanding was the grease clogging the equalization port was a myth
  • 14 2
 @dariodigiulio: are you guys going to put any of the female team on the shock to test as well? Just curious as my "rant" is mainly focused on my experience getting my wife's bike to not feel like an overly stiff pile of potatoes.

Also, you guys are crushing it. Pinkbike has totally stepped up their game recently. Thank you all so much.
  • 49 0
 I’m in that weight range and I’m happily playing in the full travel range. I’m not always there, but enough to push my o-ring to full travel most days.
  • 38 0
 @JesseMelamed: you may be lighter but I’d bet a dozen donuts you hit larger impacts than most of us at 200lb
  • 2 0
 It is a great excuse to buy those reduction tokens made of carbon something that actually increase the volume of air inside.
  • 5 0
 @DServy being in the same weight range as you, can't say I have ever had the problem of using all of the travel on an air shock, ranging from Monarch + to Superdeluxe Ultimate, Fox Float to X2. I have certainly found max travel on all of them. I typically run my shocks on the firmer side as well: 23-27% sag.
  • 1 0
 @DServy: maybe try a float X and have it reshimmed?
  • 3 14
flag mm732 (Aug 17, 2023 at 10:10) (Below Threshold)
 lighter riders don't need as much travel. get the spring rate youre happy with and ride your bike.
  • 1 0
 @ashmtb85: sent it in for service and get a lighter tune.
  • 2 0
 @mm732: You are possibly being facetious, can't say I agree with this. Really depends on the persons riding style and terrain.
  • 1 0
 @yabbaDABdo: that helps to a point. At some point need to address the air spring. My personal experience at least
  • 2 0
 I would think the culprit for not getting enough travel may be in friction and/or damping. Because at the same sag, there's no reason why a lighter person wouldn't reach full travel based on the spring characteristics alone. All the forces scale linearly with weight. You would need less pressure at the same sag of course, and breakaway force/seal frictionwill be a larger portion of the total force.
Have you ever tried custom tunes of the damper? (shims, valves and or oil).
  • 2 0
 @JesseMelamed: I've seen up close how you ride. I would have to double the pressure in my suspension to keep them from bottoming if I could ride like that.
  • 1 0
 Bikeradar write-up by Alex Evans suggests the damping was perhaps too firm for him. And I believe he's quite fast.
  • 9 1
 @JesseMelamed: love that a world class athlete is reading the same article the rest of us are and found the time to make a comment!
  • 1 0
 @ashmtb85: Or use volume spacers in the neg chamber, rubber bands, slices of inner tube/whatever.
  • 1 0
 @ashmtb85: lighter riders benefit more from _bigger_ negative spring volumes. Small negs ramp faster, which ramps net spring force faster, even with little or no positive reducers. Bigger neg volume makes for more linear, not smaller vol.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: look at the air cans on the RSD. The larger one with a bigger negative chamber is called the progressive can and the smaller can is called the linear.

On the older RSD, if you weren't able to use full travel with the normal air can without any positive spacers, the megneg can would make it even harder to use full travel.
  • 1 1
 @ashmtb85: what is "the RSD". Seems to be a coil shock for cruiser motorcycles AFAICT.

I don't care what they called whatever you're referring to. Bigger air springs, especially with large negative volumes, are closer to linear, with less steep ramp up of the spring rate at the end. Smaller volumes ramp more, hence volume _reducers_ being added to increase progression of the spring rate. A light rider would remove the reducers, or get a bigger can to maximize the volume and minimize the change in spring rate through the stroke, so their smaller mass could still push through the always increasing (but less with bigger volumes) rate near the end.
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: Wouldn't a lighter rider set a different initial spring rate than a heavier rider (lower rate to achieve the same sag) , and set their desired progression characteristic with tokens just like anyone else? Why would a lighter rider desire a different progression?
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: Because they might want even less progression. Sure, lower starting pressure will change the feel a bit, but the ending pressures still go up very fast on a small volume spring. And if it's ramping up too fast even with zero reducers, a lighter rider still might not be able to use all the travel, or just dislike the feeling of slamming into the "wall of progression" as the curve continues to get steeper faster. A larger volume spring can decrease the rate-of-increase to the spring rate, lowering the force near the end of stroke to a place where it feels nice for a lighter rider.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: I know that larger volumes reduce progression. I just don't know why lighter riders would want less progression compared to heavier riders. I might be overlooking something, I guess there are some weight dependent offsets which depend subtly on how the two chambers are equilibrated but mostly the forces in the air spring all scale with the ratio of air pressure to rider weight, which isn't different for lighter riders if they adjust their sag to the same preference.

Damping is a very different story, ideally you would want to adjust the oil viscosity or at least the damper settings proportional to air pressure to achieve the same characteristic. So on suspension that doesn't have every valve adjustable, lighter riders will be overdamped on hsc and hsr. Compensating that by lowering the spring progression is a stop gap solution but perhaps conceptually more simple than switching to a different oil that isn't factory approved, or having the shim stacks rebuilt.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: In a perfect world, progression would be completely dictated by power to weight ratios and rider aggression. In a "Zero friction" air spring world, the same spring curves would work for the same style of rider, regardless of baseline weight.

However, air has a ton of friction, and the pressure/spring rates that make those frictional forces a less than significant portion of the overall spring force tend to not work for some people on the lower end of the weight spectrum.

The frictional force as a total percentage of spring force is way higher for a rider with 150 in their shock than someone at 250.

So lighter riders tend to do better with less "progressive" spring rates in their air springs because the frictional force is so much of a higher percentage of their spring rate.
  • 1 1
 @RBalicious: the guys worried about using all his travel. maybe its not needed if he's not fast enough and/or heavy enough to use it, after setting the sag (spring rate) where it needs to be. pretty simple.
  • 1 0
 @DServy: Isn't the friction mostly in the seals and a static friction that needs to be overcome? In that case it adds force at the beginning of the stroke but not so much near the end where the shock is already moving. In that case I would think a lighter rider would want to run a bit more sag to more easily get the shock moving, and a bit more progression to stop it from bottoming.
There's also some damping caused by the air compression not being completely adiabatic but that's minor compared to what happens in the damper so I'd be surprised if that would play a role.
I'm a scientist and not an engineer, so I tend to overlook the non-idealities that are abundant in the real world, and it's my experience that when you look close enough you find the explanation for why people do things with their settings that don't make sense at first sight. So I'm not trying to say people are doing it wrong. Just looking for the explanation.
I do think one trivial explanation might be that lighter riders tend to be less powerful and therefore ride more smoothly even if they ride the same trails at the same speed. It would be interesting to compare the degree of progressivity in the forks of people like @JesseMelamed and other hard-charging light riders to their heavier colleagues.
  • 1 0
 @mm732: Dude, no. I'm more curious on if this is a shock that doesn't require you to be 170+lbs of McCheeseburger to use.

It would be nice to be able to have lighter riders get the benefit of air's tuneability without suffering so much from the higher effect friction has on lower PSI settings.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: I can only comment on mine, but I’m running 1 volume spacer and 2 clicks of HSC.
  • 1 0
 @JesseMelamed: any special after market tunes or products?
  • 2 0
 @ashmtb85: Yes. Nothing major though.
  • 11 0
 I really like the intentionally upgradeable OEM option. This will save lots of people lots of money vs purchasing a whole new shock.
  • 1 0
 Indeed, good to see SRAM is doing this. They also offer aftermarket kits to upgrade dampers and negative air springs on their forks.
  • 11 2
 "You'll want to check frame clearance before pulling the trigger" great advice but this would help more if something told us how big it is like some real dimensions or a drawing showing the length and width.
  • 7 0
 For all those wondering, I reached out my local SRAM Representative who gave the diameter of the air can. (I was curious if this would fit my Hightower) Its got a 63mm diameter air can. So no it won't fit my aluminum Hightower.
  • 9 2
 Bypass shocks in MTB! Awesome, but, how much time does a shock really spend in the top 10% of travel? Dynamically it's going to live closer to sag at 25-35%. Shouldn't the fast bypass section be closer to that? Just bypassing 0-10% seems like total parking lot wankery: pushing down on the seat from top-out will feel quite soft once the air seal stiction is overcome, sure. but as soon as you sit on it you're well past that position and into normal damping.
  • 4 5
 I think it's for people who like stiction and now they can have even more!
  • 1 1
 nevermind...I overlooked the bypass part and thought the position sensitive damping was adjustable.
  • 6 1
 When you are skipping along a chattery trail, I'd imagine quite a bit of time actually is spent in this first 10% of travel.
  • 1 1
 @SunsPSD: You'd spend a lot of time 5% to either side of sag. Unless you're unweighting the bike for the entire trail...
  • 3 1
 @justinfoil: One tire or the other isn't even touching the ground every few feet and it sure as f*ck oscillates more than 10% of the travel.
Sheesh.
  • 2 1
 Funny to see position sensitive damping to return. I thought a good while ago this was considered a bad idea and they moved away from this. Either way, I always had the idea that it would actually be better to have a lot of damping near top out. You typically get there when the wheel is off the ground, like just before a landing. If you want to keep the wheel from bottoming out you'd best start slowing it down sooner than later. Plus during that last bit of the stroke (so close to bottom out) the shock speed is already a lot lower so damping isn't so effective anymore and you'd be better of with a progressive spring near bottom out (which an air spring obviously is already).
  • 2 1
 @SunsPSD: I was going off your idea that you'd spend a lot of time "in this first 10%", that's where the 5% (times 2) came from.

Yes, when the tires slip off the ground they move past sag towards top-out, and then when they hit again they move past sag the other way. But the average is going to be close to sag, or deeper, for a "skipping along" situation, not hovering around top-out. If you're going slow enough and the holes are big enough that your back wheel fully extends on every skip, maybe you'd notice a little less impact for the very initial hit on each skip, that is once any stiction and/or hysteresis of the spring is overcome.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: what else in the past had position sensitive? Beyond bottom-out control which also has been coming back for a few years now.
  • 1 1
 @justinfoil: Rock Shox had Motion Control Damping in the past.
  • 1 0
 @workingclasswhore: pretty sure MoCo is just basic adjustable needle & orifice LSC with a shim stack for high-speed blow-off (sometimes with adjustable threshold via FloodGate dial).
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: I could be wrong, but I thought the difference between motion control and mission control was one was position sensitive and the other was speed sensitive.
  • 2 0
 @workingclasswhore: as far as I can tell, Mission Control is MoCo with a better stack for actual HSC instead of basically just a blow-off that happens to provide some high-speed damping, and optionally the pre-cursor to RapidRecovery in the DualFlow rebound circuit with useful (but still pretty fast) HSR. Both/all speed-sensitive.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: yeah everything I can find online about it indicates what you've been saying...guess my understanding of it has been wrong for all these years. Thanks for the info.
  • 3 0
 @justinfoil: The Curnutt shocks and forks that Foes used on their bikes were position sensitive about 20yrs ago, as were the Progressive 5th element shocks that a lot of major companies (Santa Cruz, Intense, etc...) offered on their frames, which were based on a Curnutt patent if I remember correctly. Manitou also did some position sensitive designs in that time period. More recently, there was a DT enduro fork that was position sensitive. The position sensitivity of all of those varied throughout the travel, as opposed to hydraulic bottom out systems.
  • 11 1
 Should have called it the Ultra Deluxe
  • 10 0
 Super Ultra Deluxe
  • 6 0
 Giga Deluxe would also have been acceptable.
  • 3 0
 Hyper Deluxe
  • 4 0
 Exo Deluxe. We'll skip a few powers of ten and go straight to the cool words
  • 4 0
 They should have called it either OMEGALUXE or just CHAD
  • 2 0
 Ultradeluxe hyperbole
  • 6 0
 Deluxe AF is my entry.
  • 1 4
 After all those years, people still find it funny to make those name jokes?!
  • 3 0
 @Timo82:
Ultra Funny
  • 8 0
 OEM's please spec this instead. I don't want to get another bike that needs a 2 week vacation every few months.
  • 5 0
 Interesting to see an internal bypass shock. Seems like a silly application of it though, IMO it would make a lot more sense to have an adjustable bypass that is actually in a useful portion of the travel. I'm still solidly on the coil train tho.
  • 6 0
 Love it, however I wonder how many people come looking for rebound knobs after dropping them on the trail lol
  • 6 0
 The shock looks fantastic for a big travel, bit more linear suspension bike. Nice preview Dario!
  • 3 0
 @dariodigiulio With how shocks are often provided with a given frame with a specific tune for that frame, is that ever a consideration when swapping a new shock that's on test between frames? Are there ever frames that you would not consider fitting an aftermarket shock because the factory tune is so specific? Or does it not matter and you can always get modern shocks to generally feel good enough with the adjustments available?
  • 7 0
 We get all test shocks tuned to the specific frame they're going to be ridden on. In this case, I had a Nomad shock and a SB160 shock, each with very different tunes.
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: Cool, thanks for the explanation on how your tests run!

For people buying aftermarket shocks, is the recommendation to always take it somewhere to get tuned, since most stores and shops don't sell it off-the-shelf shocks for specific frames?
  • 4 0
 You don't necessarily have to take it to an aftermarket tuner, every shock manufacturer should have a list of frame/kinematic-specific tunes they can implement to make sure it's best suited to your bike.
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: Can you provide me the compression and rebound tune which was installed for the yeti SB160? So I can get the right tune for my SB160. Cheers!
  • 10 5
 blah blah blah still not as good as a coil

When an air shock finally performs above a coil, I'll give a shit about air.

#coilforlife
  • 1 0
 The Air shock will certainly perform better than a coil for an aggressive rider on a bike with less than 15% progression.
  • 2 0
 I am curious how this compares to the SDU w/MegNeg. The megneg is great except even on pretty big huck to flats there's still almost 10mm of travel unused even at 30% sag for me. If this has the SDU w/megneg small bump sensitivity and midstroke support plus can use all travel I would be very interested but my bank account not so much.
  • 5 0
 I think this would also depend on your bike's kinematics. I found the megneg on my Sight to be amazing with no issue of unused travel.
  • 1 0
 @rrolly: Good point. It's a La Sal 2.0 that's a little more progressive in the leverage ratio than the Sight I think based on a value I saw in a review but I can't find numbers for the ratio. The end travel and psi I use doesn't seem to change from using 2 bands to 4 bands which I thought it would. May as well go back to 2 bands or try 0 bands and see if anything changes with that.
  • 1 0
 @FaahkEet: yes try 0 bands. Should require less air to get the same sag. Less air = more travel.
  • 2 0
 @FaahkEet: also TruTune is working on carbon air spacers (like their fork product) for the super deluxe. Last I asked they estimated early 2024 release.

m.pinkbike.com/news/review-trutune-suspension-inserts-unlock-more-travel.html
  • 3 0
 @FaahkEet: sorry, had it backwards in my first comment. Read too fast. You want all the negative bands in place in your situation.
  • 2 0
 The MegNeg only adds more negative volume to the SDU, which then requires higher pressures to hit the same sag point, making the shock more progressive. This works well on some bikes, not so well on others. It looks as though the vivid has increased the size of positive chamber in proportion to the negative chamber size, which should give a more linear curve. Although with HBO and the air-spring progression, using full travel may still be a challenge.
  • 2 1
 @jdejace: Thanks for the TruTune heads up, I'll keep an eye out for that. I did a lunchtime ride test adding two turtles for a total of 3 on the rebound which either randomly worked out or helped get a little deeper into using full travel. Only 6mm away. They were fairly modest huck to flats but not huge.
  • 8 2
 Is that Levy on the missing person milk box shirt?
  • 5 0
 360 psi max, sweet baby jesus! That Float X2 with max 300 psi was a real pain in the ass for heavier riders.
  • 2 2
 You shouldn't need huge pressure on bikes with proper leverage ratios. Im 110kg and at 220psi on an x2. High leverage bikes seem to be on the way out.
  • 2 0
 @dariodigiulio Any word on if RockShox will be releasing different air cans and negative spacer tuning? That is the best part of the Deluxe line IMO. Super versatile and can get the air spring to work well for a lot of different riders, riding styles and frames. 140lbs and progressive frame - linear air can, negative spacers. 200lbs and single pivot? Progressive can, no neg spacers.
  • 2 0
 I haven't seen anything about different air cans yet, so we'll see.
  • 2 0
 But how does it work ?? THe article is full of information, but not to much regarding the shock sensivity, and feeling. It would be great to do a back to back comparison with the Super Deluxe Coil to see how it really compares with an equivalent coil shock.
  • 3 2
 I heard the shape of the HBO screw doesn't actually match the shape of the orifice so I most likely only works if it's screwed all the way in. Has anyone torn down a super deluxe with this product yet or does anyone have any dynos that can actually show us how much this effect end stroke.

@pinkbike - Can you start doing some data driven testing with actual instruments that can tell us what is happening on products like this? Paging dan roberts or seb.
  • 3 0
 www.vitalmtb.com/features/first-ride-all-new-rockshox-vivid there are some RS provided graphs in here that seem to show that it works.
  • 1 0
 That's probably intentional, to get the adjustment to feel the way they want. Low-speed bleed adjustments like the typical LSC also use needles that aren't the exact inverse of the port's taper.
  • 1 0
 @plustiresaintdead: you mean the graph with ridiculousness of displacement in meters, zeroed in the middle of the stroke?
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: I didn't make them lol
  • 2 1
 Good to see SRAM can still dilute names so well. This looks exactly like a Super Deluxe Coil with just the spring swapped out. As opposed to the Super Deluxe Air which is a pretty different damper layout. Does the SD Coil go away if they bring back a Vivid Coil?
  • 3 1
 I heard mention of other shocks having 50hr service intervals. I'm no pro, but I can put that many hours on a shock in a month. Are normal peeps really servicing anywhere near the actual service intervals?
  • 3 2
 I can't get as exited about shocks as i do about forks...I don't feel like current tech is any better then the good old rp23 from ages ago. But hey i am just a average trail rider so maybe my riding just isn't very demanding on my bikes rear suspension. Not cheaper, not lighter, not easier to service, not longer service intervals and no measurable performance (or feel) improvement. Hard to get exited about any of it.
  • 3 0
 Any idea how to pick the correct tune for your frame?
There are serveral different tunes offered:
Rebound R25 R55
Compression C26, C30, C34, C37, C40, C43
  • 4 0
 Makes a bit of a joke of selling it aftermarket, unless these are clearly communicated and available.
  • 2 1
 The FOX X2 MY21 recall that wasn't a recall. I'm impressed how they are giving out shocks but it took them two years to acknowledge any issues with the shafts cracking. Let's see how long the current MY24 lasts, as a claim of 'virtually illuminating oil aeration' is a very bold statement. I'd say that brand faith was extremely damaged and the X2 replacement is the only way they can claw back the fan Bois.
  • 1 0
 Looks interesting. If it weighs almost as much as a coil though, what's the point? Also these brands need to address servicing. Have a system down where there's a clear set price, quick turn around, ideally no more than $200 total for a full rebuild, etc.
  • 3 0
 @dariodigiulio are you running similar air pressure vs the current sdlx? Or does the new vivid require more air?
  • 4 0
 On the Nomad, I'm running higher pressure in the Vivid than the SD.
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: thank you!
  • 4 0
 Will it still use a 20-year-old Shimano BB tool like its predecessor?
  • 1 0
 Would this be the first ever RS without digressive damping? WTF is this world heading to Smile But I am sure they made something strange there, they always do, just wait for some teardown by Vorsprung.
  • 3 0
 What is the adjustability range for us big boned riders(read: fat)? Will rebound be fully closed or close it?
  • 6 1
 Darios a keeper
  • 1 0
 Interesting. The standout bit for me is the move from 50 to 100 hour service intervals, a durability & service consideration that I wish suspension brands would pay more heed of in new designs.
  • 4 1
 Waiting for the: SUPER ULTIMATE MEGGA DELUXE SUPERLATIVE JAZZ HANDS ULTRA MEGGA MEGGA version.
  • 3 0
 It's coming 2069
  • 4 0
 girth
  • 2 0
 Perfect timing. Just came back from a ride where I snapped the shaft of my Superdelux Coil.
  • 1 0
 google does not seem to have the same easy to use converter for SERVICE to REAL hours. No need to overthink it. 100/5000 or 50:01 inverted formula.
  • 1 1
 I've been impressed with all the new rockshox stuff, it's so darn easy to setup too. The HBO does as advertised and allows you to run less HSC which ultimately has a plusher feel.
  • 1 0
 "This separate circuit has a different feel from the ramp-up you get with volume spacers"

Yup, this one doesn't mess up your spring curve. Volume spacers are such a hack
  • 2 0
 Every time is see a new air shock they say coil like.... I go to my bike, look at my coil shock and smile.
  • 1 1
 I have had too many sram products fail on me over the years. Won't even consider buying any of their products unless they come stock on a bike. Then I replace them with something else after they fail.
  • 2 0
 It's here! After all the teasing it's finally here!!
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio what kind of compression and rebound tune did you end up for the SB160. Cheers!
  • 5 1
 Saving most of this for the long term, but I'm at -2HBO, +1LSC, 0HSC, all from center. Around 13 from closed on rebound, changes a bit track-depending.
  • 4 0
 @dariodigiulio: Thanks but i was wondering about the internal comp. and rebound tune of the shock itself. e.g: low comp. tune and linear rebound tune?
  • 3 2
 “Touchdown” yelled the CEO after they launched this field goal of a shocker
  • 2 0
 been riding it on the yet-to-be-released grim donut?!
  • 2 0
 the yet-to-be-released-SOMETHING I CAN'T LIP READ-bike
  • 1 1
 Will this be able to fit the latest slash... doesn't look like it..I know there's a new slash comn out..but it's high pivot nonsense..hope this fits on the previous model
  • 2 0
 Anyone list the bearing kit for sale yet?
  • 2 0
 Why would you want zero damping at the beginning of the stroke?
  • 4 0
 Bypass does not mean zero damping. It just means reduced damping compared to the main compression circuit. The graph shows damping at the beginning of the stroke.
  • 1 0
 @slovenian6474: Reduced in this case; but it's not necessarily always reduced in a bypass section, just different.
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: How do they increase damping with a bypass? Oil flows the path of least resistance. Wouldn't a bypass with increased damping just force fluid through the main compression circuit?
  • 1 0
 @slovenian6474: hmm, yeah. I guess any extra flow would reduce it a bit. I was thinking more like with overlapping bypasses, some would be more damping than others, but yeah they'll all be less than without the bypasses
  • 5 6
 HSR adjustment requires a new shock tune?! So the >200lbs demographic get to choose between getting bucked into 2024 or sending their brand new shock in for a custom rebound tune. Wow, sign me up.
  • 11 0
 Its pretty common for people outside of the average rider needing to get a custom valving or shim stack.
  • 4 2
 This is true of every shock except the Float X2 and the DHX2.
  • 1 1
 @dariodigiulio: nah. You dont think pros dont use custom valving and stacks with their x2 amd dhx2? Yes they have a wide usable range across bikes without custom tunes at times (some companies and frames still require custom tunes) but those are 2 separate things.
  • 2 0
 @taskmgr: Big guy here: one of the better decisions I ever made was getting my suspension custom tuned.
  • 2 0
 @taskmgr: They certainly do, my point is just that HSR is available externally on those, as that was his complaint.
  • 1 1
 @taskmgr: not really. Watch Dialed, Taj mentions early this season that the handful of main piston stacks to adjust for specific frames, which are available to anyone and will be in an OEM shock already, is the only change from a "stock" aftermarket X2. Everything else comes from the clickers.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: well of course a shim stack is available to anyone who wants one. The oem one has a less wide range. The aftermarket ones have a wider range. They still screw up. For example on the commencal meta, 2021with x2 air the rebound will never be fast enough for some people and needs a tune.
  • 1 0
 @taskmgr: the after market ones do NOT have a wider range. They have a different range, which is some preset that might fit some bikes better than others, but almost every OEM model has a custom tune in that same way: a selection of base piston tunes to suit cert suspension characteristics, then fine tuned (with the same range) via the clickers
  • 1 0
 Wierd prase. Up until the last generation, rockshox prioritized 2 stages of rebound over compression.
  • 1 0
 I'll have to keep an eye on this shock, getting pretty tired of cavitation issues and blowing up my X2
  • 2 0
 @dariodigiulio Any photos of this shock on the Nomad V6?
  • 2 0
 No, but the main note is that you have to lift up that rear mudflap to get to the rebound knob.
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: It looks like a Santa Cruz Hightower 2020 (sable) on that video. The Fox X2 didn't fit on the channel; the new Vivid is fitting. Can anyone confirm that, please?
  • 2 2
 When I hear about folks that have blown up X2’s, I expect them to be missing legs. Which makes the release of this shock sound like an arms race.
  • 1 0
 How does everyone think this will be for the clyde market? And what if you're running a CC link?
  • 1 0
 Anyone know the outside diameter of the air can? I'm trying to check if it will fit my bike?
  • 3 0
 I think @541freeride asked and reported 63mm in another comment on here.
  • 1 0
 Is it really able to keep an air inside for 100 hours (not talking about riding)?
  • 1 0
 It it true that when u adjust the dials on a Fox X2 it triggers the detonation sequence?
  • 1 0
 So now they used the Vivid name again, time to rename the coming Zeb into Totem?
  • 1 0
 I've loved both versions of the super deluxe ultimate, so i'm super keen to try this out!
  • 2 0
 It's back baby!
  • 1 0
 Where can I get that t-shirt?
  • 1 0
 Any info on how the vivid feels/performs compared to the super deluxe?
  • 3 0
 Better across the board. I prefer my last generation vivid r2c air over the current super deluxe ultimate
  • 1 2
 I'm a bit disappointed because the old Vivid was fantastic and it had no hype at all so you could buy them for ultra cheap on eBay.
  • 1 1
 I wonder how much better my bike would feel for $700?
  • 3 4
 My super deluxe coil is about two years old on the evil insurgent. Should I try out this bad boy?
  • 1 1
 cool, my SD coil is one year old.
  • 2 1
 Not unless you want to try an air spring and/or the silly bypass. It's sure looks like it's the same damper as the SD Coil.
  • 1 1
 no trunnion??
  • 2 0
 Fanatik bike has pre-orders up, trunnion versions are present.
  • 6 0
 I think you meant to say: No trunnion!!
  • 1 0
 Yep, trunnion is available
Below threshold threads are hidden







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.065863
Mobile Version of Website