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First Ride: YT's New Decoy SN is the Capra's Motorized Counterpart

Jul 9, 2024
by Ralf Hauser  



Not SL, but SN is the new moniker for YT's sibling of the Decoy. SN stands for Supernatural, and YT is quite outspoken that weight was not the main focus in creating a mid-power enduro e-bike package. Instead, the focus was on the sum of all components, including the motor system, to create a natural ride feel. Going even further, one of their design goals was to build the best enduro bike, period – motor or not. It's a bold statement that shows YT is putting equal value into their e-bikes as they do into their regular bikes.

Developed over the past three years, the frame was built around Fazua's Ride 60 motor system. The silhouette of the bike closely resembles YT's prime choice within the non-motorized enduro category, the Capra, minus the linkage brace.



YT Decoy SN MX CF Details
• Wheel size: 29"/27.5" Mixed
• Rear wheel travel: 160mm
• Ultra Modulus carbon frame
• 64.2°/63.9° head angle
• Chainstay length: 442mm / 443mm
• Core 4 weight, size L (w/o pedals): 20.72 kg/45.58 lbs.
• Fazua Ride 60 motor w/ 430 Wh battery
• Sizes: S-XXL
• Price: Core 4 USD 8,499; Core 3 USD 7,499; Core 2 USD 6,499 (same for EUR and GBP)

www.yt-industries.com


bigquotesThe bike was supposed to feel really natural. That's why we called it the Decoy SN, for Supernatural. It's all about the right feel; we weren't focused on power, capacity or weight.Markus Flossman, CEO YT Industries


YT Decoy SN MX Core 4 CF
YT Decoy SN MX Core 4 CF


Frame Details

The frame is made entirely from YT's Ultra Modulus carbon fibers, their highest quality option. Even the linkage is crafted from carbon. The frame alone, without motor, battery, and shock, weighs 3,038 g in size L.

The engineers have decided on a mixed wheel setup with a 29" front and 27.5" rear wheel. There is no option to swap to a 29" wheel on the rear.

With a design brief to create iconic shapes, the Decoy SN's headtube features one of the most prominent updates in terms of form language. Most riders will rejoice as the Decoy SN's cable routing still enters the head tube from the sides. Inside, the cable guides are bonded into the frame using co-molded inner tube bonding, making cable installation a breeze. Additionally, for the first time, the cables are held in place at the inlets by a plastic piece. This new cable integration was first started with the Jeffsy project but made it into production first on the Decoy SN.


Leading the cables into the frame in the right spot.
Leading the cables into the frame the way most people prefer.

In one of the design studies it shows a mix of modern and iconic cars the latest version of the Porsche 911 and a Ferrari F40. The goal was to also infuse the new Decoy SN with some lines that pass the test of time.
One of the design studies features a mix of modern and iconic cars, including the latest version of the Porsche 911 and a Ferrari F40. The goal was to infuse the new Decoy SN with lines that pass the test of time.
You can design every shape and form on the computer to see design elements in real life and hold them in your hands is still another experience altogether.
You can design every shape and form on the computer, but seeing design elements in real life and holding them in your hands is a completely different experience.


The head tube features ZS56 bearings on the top and bottom, with the top part holding a custom high cap.

To reduce noise, there are plenty of protectors on the chainstays and seatstays. The soft ribs on the chainstay protector are filled with air bubbles. Protecting the motor is a bolt-on skid plate that catches up with the cooling fins of the motor and integrates neatly with the frame protection on the down tube.

The bike holds a full-size water bottle, although the maximum capacity varies with the different frame sizes. An extra mount on the underside of the top tube gives you the option to mount accessories. The Crankbrothers Stash Kit comes with the Core 4 spec and can also be purchased aftermarket for the other models.

The rear end features a UDH dropout. The rear disc mount follows the PM 200 standard. The seatpost has a diameter of 34.9 mm.

There are five frame sizes available, ranging from S to XXL.


PM 200 mounts are so clean.
PM 200 mounts are so clean and make sense on a bike like the Decoy SN.
Duck ... Duck ... Go
Duck ... Duck ... Go ... says the 34.9 diameter, short seat tube.

Water bottle ... check.
Water bottle... check.
There s also space for a replacement tube in the Crankbrothers Stash Kit.
There's also space for a replacement tube in the Crankbrothers Stash Kit.


Motor & Electronics

As the name suggests, the Fazua Ride 60 system delivers 60 Nm of maximum torque. Its integrated battery has a capacity of 430 Wh. YT calls it a mid-support engine. YT tested a lot of available systems on the market but settled on the Ride 60 as it matched the best mix of power, cadence support, weight and integration from their point of view.

The motor's weight is listed at 1,960 g, and the 430 Wh integrated battery at 2,200 g. Nominal power is 250 watts. A charge port is located in the bottom bracket area and is protected by a magnetic cover. The so-called Ring Control lever lets you switch between three ride modes (Breeze, River, Rocket) and off, as well as a push function.
YT opted to install the non-removable battery option as it allowed them to almost shave a 1,000 grams of the bike, compared to adding all the necessary steps to integrate a removable battery.

If you push the Ring Control lever upwards for two seconds, it activates the Boost function to deliver a maximum of 450 Watts for twelve seconds while riding or for four seconds from standstill (or until you stop pedaling).

160 mm e thirteen Helix cranks and a well-hidden Fazua Ride 60 motor.
160 mm e*thirteen Helix cranks and a well-hidden Fazua Ride 60 motor.

The Fazua Ring Control lever.
The Fazua Ring Control lever.
Five lights to make battery charge state as vague as possible.
Five lights on the display indicate the battery level.


The LED Hub is integrated into the top tube and shows the battery charge with five lights. A USB-C port for charging mobile devices or receiving updates is hidden underneath the cover. The LED Hub is also the connecting hub for ANT+ and Bluetooth, allowing connection to a cell phone with the Fazua app.

The Fazua Rider app is available for Android and iOS and gives you the option to tune each riding mode separately or download various profiles with different presets. The speed sensor is nicely integrated into the dropout area of the frame.

There's a close relationship between Fazua and YT, leading to regular feedback sessions and ideas on how to improve the system in the future.


Geometry

Comparing the geometry numbers between the non-motorized Capra and the Decoy SN, the figures are similar but have once again evolved towards a more modern approach. Reach numbers have increased by about 10 mm across all sizes, starting at 435mm for size S all the way to 515mm for a size XXL. The chainstay length has also increased slightly but remains relatively compact for an eMTB at 442mm for all sizes.

The almost uninterrupted seat tube across the range is shorter, allowing riders to select a size based on their style rather than being limited by their height. Sizing starts with a short 390mm length for size S and goes up to 460mm for size XXL. The seat angle ranges from 78.4 to 78.2-degrees across the sizes. The head angle is set at 64.2 degrees.

Geometry

A flip chip at the yoke allows adjustments between a regular and low setting, affecting the head and seat tube angles as well as the bottom bracket height. The regular setting's bottom bracket height is slightly lower than the low setting on the Capra is to make you feel more embedded. The bottom bracket height measures 344mm in the regular position and drops another 4 mm to 340mm in the low setting. The head angle slackens by 0.3 degrees to 63.9 degrees, and the seat angle drops by 0.2 degrees.

As part of YT's latest iteration of geometry, the handlebar stack height has been raised. To give riders options for adjustment, 40mm high riser bars are used on all models. Head tube lengths are on the shorter side, ranging from 100 to 132mm, so you can drop down by swapping to a lower rise bar if you wish.

40mm riser bars to add to the stack height.
40mm riser bars to add to the stack height.
Regular and Low geometry setting adaptable with a flip chip.
Regular and Low geometry setting, adaptable with a flip chip.



Suspension Design

Rear travel comes to 160mm and is paired with a 170mm travel suspension fork. The V4L system is based on a four-bar linkage layout with a Horst link and a shock yoke.

The leverage curve is progressive, starting with a high leverage ratio for improved suppleness, lower progression in the mid-stroke to make it stable, and high-end progression for bottom-out control. The Decoy SN can be set up with either air or coil shocks.

The shock measures 230 x 65mm, giving an average leverage ratio of 2.46:1.


Horst link four-bar suspension.
Horst link, four-bar suspension.


Even the link is made from carbon.
Even the link is made from carbon to save a bit of extra weight and create a specific form they were looking for.


Specifications

The full-carbon Decoy SN CF comes in three spec variations: the top model being the Core 4, the entry offering being the Core 2, with the Core 3 in the middle.

The Decoy SN Core 4 CF – featured in this First Ride article – comes equipped with Fox's top-of-the-line Factory 38 fork with Kashima coating and X2 damping, as well as a Fox DHX2 Factory coil shock. Both feature high- and low-speed compression and rebound damping. The wheels are Crankbrothers Synthesis E-Bike Alloy, including high-end Hydra I9 hubs. The wheels are customized with an Enduro rim up front and an E-MTB rim in the back. SRAM's new Maven Silver brakes handle stopping duties. The drivetrain includes a GX Transmission mixed with an e*thirteen 160mm Helix crank.

The Core 4's stated weight for a size S model is 20.6 kg without pedals, the size L weighs 20.72 kg / 45.7 lb. Color options are Field Grey or Black Magic Bolt. The price is USD/EUR/GBP 8,499 or CAD 11,899.


Decoy SN MX Core 4 CF in Field Grey.
Decoy SN MX Core 4 CF in Field Grey.
Decoy SN MX Core 4 CF in Black Magic Bolt.
Decoy SN MX Core 4 CF in Black Magic Bolt.


The Core 3 CF comes with a RockShox ZEB Ultimate fork and Vivid Ultimate shock. TRP DHR-Evo brakes with 2.3mm wide rotors provide stopping power. It runs on Crankbrothers Synthesis E-Bike Alloy wheels but with different hubs compared to the top model. The drivetrain features SRAM's new electronic S1000 Eagle Transmission derailleur mixed with GX T-Type components.

The Core 3's stated weight for a size S model is 20.5 kg without pedals. Color options are Reflex Red or Black Magic Bolt. The price is USD/EUR/GBP 7,499 or CAD 9,999.

Decoy SN MX Core 3 CF in Reflex Red.
Decoy SN MX Core 3 CF in Reflex Red.

Decoy SN MX Core 3 CF in Black Magic Bolt.
Decoy SN MX Core 3 CF in Black Magic Bolt.

The Core 2 CF is suspended by a RockShox ZEB Select fork and Vivid Select shock. It features DT Swiss H1900 Hybrid wheels and TRP DHR-Evo brakes. Shifting is handled by Shimano SLX and XT components.

The Core 2's stated weight for a size S model is 20.4 kg without pedals. Color options are Status Grey or Black Magic Bolt. The price is USD/EUR/GBP 6,499 or CAD 8,999.

Decoy SN MX Core 2 CF in Status Grey.
Decoy SN MX Core 2 CF in Status Grey.
Decoy SN MX Core 2 CF in Black Magic Bolt.
Decoy SN MX Core 2 CF in Black Magic Bolt.



All bikes are equipped with YT's new Postman V2 dropper post, adjustable in travel steps using shims. Size S models feature a 150mm drop, M 170mm, L and XL 200mm, and XXL 230mm.

All Core ranges share Continental Kryptotal Front and Rear tires, with the highlight being the SuperSoft compound matched with the Enduro casing on the front tire – a combination that is just being officially released to the public.

The brakes use 220mm rotors in the front and 200mm or 203mm rotors in the back. There's a custom MRP SL chainguide on top of the chainring to keep the chain in check on rowdy terrain.





Compared to my usual habit of going into great detail, even when talking about initial impressions, I'll try to stick to the most basic facts, since I was able to keep the bike for a thorough review at a later point.

One look at the new Decoy SN and it's obvious that YT spent a great deal of time regarding system integration. The lines of the frame are purposeful and give the bike a silhouette that's hard to make out as an e-bike. Or light e-bike, although YT rightfully calls the Fazua system a mid-support motor and questions the light e-bike classification in general.

As for the weight, the Decoy SN might not seem like a revelation at about 21.1 kg with pedals, but looking at the spec paints a different picture. The SN is a thoroughbred enduro bike with sturdy tires, a coil rear shock on the tested model, plus no-nonsense wheels and big rotors.

More so, once you swing a leg over the rig and point it down the hill, the Decoy SN doesn't feel like a slouch when pushed into corners or threaded down a root-infested singletrack. While it sticks to the ground when it's supposed to, it can quickly be maneuvered wherever you need it to go. When you hit jumps, it feels balanced in the air and is much easier to throw around than some of the heavier, full-power e-bikes on the market.


Photo Ale Di Lullo


The Fazua Ride 60 is quite powerful for its build volume and weight. Tthe Boost function helped me up some quite steep sections without much of a fuss, although I've yet to try and tackle some challenging uphills on my test laps. The steep seat tube adds to the bike's climbing prowess.

Spec-wise, there's not a single component that seems out of place, except for one - I had trouble getting used to the 50mm long stem. Since that's an easy fix, it's not really a big deal and I'll run both setups in the long-term review for better comparison.


Photo Ale Di Lullo


In terms of geometry, the small – yet in some regards not so small – updates compared to the Capra, which comes closest to the Decoy SN's character, are all more than welcome. I'm happy about the slightly longer chainstays that add some stability and front wheel traction, even if I wouldn't have complained if they would a thrown in a couple extra millimeters.

The real highlight for me is the shorter, almost straight seat tube. Not being the tallest person, I was able to ride my – in terms of reach – preferred size L frame without compromise. I could even utilize the full 200mm extension of the dropper post that comes with that frame size, although I might have to shim it down by 5 or 10mm in the end to get the perfect fit.

At first look, it seems like YT has done a mighty fine job with the Decoy SN, bridging the gap between the current crop of non-motorized enduro bikes and heavy full-powered e-bikes without compromising in the areas that really matter. I'll take it down some of my favorite trails in the weeks to come to see if it keeps up the great first impression.



Photo Ale Di Lullo


Author Info:
ralf-hauser avatar

Member since May 10, 2010
68 articles

209 Comments
  • 75 3
 can i get a non-motor version with epic downtube storage?
  • 44 1
  dedicated post ride beer storage
  • 11 1
 @YTIndustries: you could get a whole wizard staff in that bad larry
  • 1 3
 @YTIndustries: and gamble whether someone explodes after a 1 black trail Big Grin
  • 49 0
 Publications really need to talk more about the reliability of these motors & the warranty process.
  • 8 10
 They're consumer electronics. They have screens, wires, soldered connections, gears, batteries, connections, the list goes on. And they get thrashed. Folks should expect much lower reliability than bikes without electronics on them.
  • 9 1
 @rickybobby19: My turbo levo is about to turn 1 year old this month and already racked up 2795 miles on it. I haven't had a single issue with it and it's still under warranty for one more year.
  • 9 1
 They don’t have them long enough to find out
  • 2 6
flag WillW123 (Jul 10, 2024 at 1:50) (Below Threshold)
 @rickybobby19: The number of people I see jet washing their e-bikes amazes me. I don't even hose my bike cause its a sure way to ruin the bearings. I'm always surprised when they turn on after.
  • 13 0
 We have a large pile of dead Fazua batteries. Completetly useless, non repairable. Replaced under warranty fine but an environmental disaster. We have pretty much got a 100% failure rate with them. Publications will never talk about this, bikes/cars or whatever, either they don't have the product long enough or they'll be biting the hand that feeds. The car industry is a shocker, electric cars getting written off for software issues/minor bumps. No one will touch a second hand battery as it's an unknown and insurance liabiltity.
  • 2 0
 @devinkalt: I have 5000km on my Bosch gen4 CX of only trail riding and no issue with the motor. 1000km with Powerplay no issues. 1000km with EP8 no issues.
  • 4 2
 @shredderthedog: the issue is many PB editors know many motors with bateries from bikes they own but they are afraid to criticize durability on bikes from big advertisers... sorry big brands.
  • 3 1
 @shredderthedog: Same experience here, about 50% were dead before taking the bikes out of the box, multiple more went dead before the bikes were sold and most which worked have been warrantied after around a year. We also had multiple problems with their ring remote not working. At least the warranty process in Switzerland is pretty fast Wink
  • 48 8
 Nice bike, shame is uses the fazua. Everyone I know with one has had issues very early on bike ownership
  • 15 5
 Yep it’s a reason to avoid this bike. I’ll stick with Bosch.
  • 8 2
 What kind of issues?
  • 17 0
 @Bluefire: lack of support in the US. Dead batteries. Weird technical glitches. All could be easy fixes but again it's a smaller brand and their customer support is slow and when you want to ride that's annoying.
  • 1 1
 My thoughts exactly!
  • 20 3
 @Bluefire: Batteries dying after 100 miles use, motors dying after the same, handlebar controller are extremely fragile and go often, BB is part of the motor and terrible quality. Replacement BB takes ages to come and full motor out job. Motor doesnt even feel that powerful. Demoed lots before buying and the bosch SX was light years ahead
  • 6 0
 @Endo79: their marketing says it feels natural, that's why am underpowered motor.
  • 20 0
 @Endo79: To be fair, EVERY ebike the BB is integrated and a motor out job.
  • 9 0
 yep these motors are really unreliable and the display and control are so far behind the likes of specialized and trek.
  • 6 1
 Exactly. Looks so good but i will NEVER own another faz junker again. Big fail. Bummer...
  • 6 1
 @REZEN: yeah, the difference is they don't need changing in other motors every 400 miles. my last eeb went 3000 miles without the bb bearings needing to be changed.
  • 5 1
 @Bluefire: motor #1, i drove hours to go ride and then no motor when i got there, grinding sounds on motor #2, motor #3 just never energized.
Ring controller is two chunks of garbage plastic held together with a magnet . If you bump it, you replace it.
  • 5 0
 @BermSkid72: this is exactly why I don't want anything electronic on my bike. (although I have to admit I love the clean look of wireless/cableless dropper and shifting)
  • 4 0
 @BermSkid72: Even in EU/Switzerland it's the worst in terms of maintenance. Pretty much every time you have a problem/error with the drive unit/battery/etc you have to schedule an appointment with a fazua guy and wait. A couple of months ago, we had a bike in the shop for at least one month until the damn problem was solved because of the not existing support of fazua. Poor customer... and don't get me started on the quality of the components...
  • 6 0
 @REZEN: Not true. Rocky Mountain's Dyname system uses a standard bottom bracket which is separate from the motor and can be replaced without touching the motor at all. It's one of the reasons I bought one.
  • 10 11
 i'm currently on a prototype motor+battery system that is, so far, putting out astounding reliability numbers. brand is called L3G5. the drive unit has self-healing technology and the more you use it, the more efficient and powerful it gets. battery is also prototype tech that I can't talk about right now, but I will tell you that it's FULLY sustainable and organic - you could literally chuck it into the ocean when you're done with it and the fish could eat it and be fine. range is unprecedented as well and charging times are literally orders of magnitude lower.

that's all I can say right now about L3G5 unfortunately. But I can promise that pretty soon reliability, range, and charge times will not be something we even think about
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby19: you’d want to be sure you’re finished with them before feeding to the fish
  • 1 0
 @dkendy1: Lieutenant Dan! Is that you?
  • 10 1
 @rickybobby19: as a near 50 year old who has been demoing L3G5 for quite some time myself, I can say that the Kn335 portion of system leave something to be desired in my long term testing, probably something that should be addressed by the engineering team.
  • 6 0
 @hal9k: ha! Yes the KN335 component of the L3G5 system does seem to be the weak point over time
  • 2 0
 @REZEN: Devil’s advocate here, EVERY but Rocky Mountain… ✌️
  • 7 6
 the easiest way to avoid motor issues is to go to the gym instead.
  • 6 4
 @hot-beef-sundae:
1. Buy Capra
2. Pedal harder Wink
3. Profit
  • 6 2
 @hot-beef-sundae: or just buy an ebike with a motor that is proven and reliable. Few options to choose from. Ebike and dh bike, best combo
  • 3 1
 We have pretty much every one fail (Ride50) and need a new battery, sometimes even new out of the box. Corroded connectors from water ingress another big issue. How products like this end up on the market and straight in the bin is an environmental disaster.
  • 2 0
 @rickybobby19: Unfortunately every user experience has been vastly different. The left drive side of the motor on my own has failed a few times before and every time I rebuild it, it loses a little top end power and becomes more likely to fail again.
  • 26 3
 this marketing bullsh*t made me puke: One of the design studies features a mix of modern and iconic cars, including the latest version of the Porsche 911 and a Ferrari F40. The goal was to infuse the new Decoy SN with lines that pass the test of time
  • 10 2
 cringe for sure
  • 8 1
 Yeah, the bike industry needs less design, more engineering, and most of all it needs a boost to production line Q/C.
  • 4 0
 "Iconic" is one of the most overused words in the English language. While those cars are, using the word on something that's just been released is just BS.
  • 1 0
 @thekaiser: good product managment too. Not just engineers designing for engineers as that ends up with typical clockwork like german overengineering
  • 1 0
 @thekaiser: sane man!
  • 19 2
 The reason why all the photos are in lift access bikeparks, is that those are the only places you will be able to ride when the motor packs in multiple times a year...
  • 6 1
 Hahaha. Yeah the motor is unreliable trash and the ring control is the worst plastic trash on the market. Shame porsche would put their name on a controller that bad.
  • 2 0
 Yeah. I think Porsche should take more care of their brands reputation.
  • 30 13
 My bike's motorized counterpart is a GSXR.
  • 1 2
 Nice. I want a MT10.
  • 3 0
 @Rageingdh: MT07 in the Yamaha Tenere 700. Wonderful bike.
  • 21 8
 Transition Relay was the biggest let down and WORST purchase of my adult life. 3 new motors this year but supposedly they just figured it out, finally. If it was a car it would be a lemon. I hope they fixed the quality issues , won't work, grinding sounds, just being total junk. I would drive hours to go ride and then not have a working motor when i got there. I would love this bike with the lightweight BOSCH, a REPUTABLE automotive level supplier.
  • 19 9
 Relax man, you've commented the same thing a half dozen times already on this page. We get it.
  • 2 0
 Sorry about that. I LOVE the way it rides. Everything transition about that bike is damn good. The motor not so much.
  • 3 0
 I almost waited for a Relay but ended up getting a Spire instead. Personally I will wait another 5 years before looking hard at an E-bike.
  • 4 0
 Huge bummer for the early adopters who bought Relays and got hosed by faulty Fazauas... but I'm still very interested in this mid-power segment so I am very curious to see if they got their issues sorted out or not. IF the Fazua can be deemed reliable (at least, as reliable as ebike motors can be) this bike could be a real gem.
  • 6 1
 have ridden my Transition Relay for over 1000 miles with multiple trips to killington bike park and no issues at all. wife has about 2000 miles on hers with also zero issues. Also have sold about 10 other Relays and none have ever come back for motor, battery, or ring control issues... my shop is Maui North. just lucky i guess figured i'd share our happier Fazua stories.
  • 1 1
 @polmagz: guy that sells the product shares stories about how it’s good and not an absolute dumpster fire ripping off consumers….nice
  • 1 1
 @bouldertom: just the truth... guess you can't handle opinions that don't suit you. pretty common these days. rode again yesterday on my relay 27 miles NO ISSUES again. LOVE THIS BIKE
  • 1 1
 @polmagz: congratulations on having no issues and believing what a salesman tells you.
So far from the research I’ve been able to do.
The ride 60 is looking at 29% failure rate purely on motors alone.
Not including battery, controller and software problems.

Your experience is good, that doesn’t mean that everyone else is over hyping problems, to suggest so is moronic, but pretty common.
  • 1 0
 @bouldertom: i ride 5-6 days a week 30 -60 miles on a mountain bike. I also own a s work kenevo and a trek fuel exe along with a transition spire and spur. most of my issues have been with fox in the last 2 years No bike or Motor issues. I ride 2 bikes with the Fazua motor 1500 miles on one and about 1000 on the other. My comments are real world bike use comments. YOU SEEM YOU JUST HAVE RESEARCHED WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR for you info.
Just so you are aware, people that get good stuff don't really go on writing about it in reviews cause its supposed to work. but if it doesn't then they usually make the most noise and complain and go write bad reviews just to be keyboard warriors. ALL of this stuff, IF IT ACTUALLY has a factory issue is covered but I have never had any of those and neither have my customers. I just sold another Relay 15 minutes ago and it headed to the trails now.
  • 15 2
 DJI's new motor/battery setup makes conventional lightweight eMTB's feel obsolete.
  • 1 2
 If it's true, I'd agree. Accept, how are you going to keep a drivetrain together on that thing?
  • 3 0
 Like alpine touring ski bindings i'd never buy into any emtb motor system in its first , or even 2nd, year. There's always something that needs tweaked
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: Yeah, it'll be hard on chains and cassettes with those torque figures, although running a Shimano Linkglide drivetrain should help that significantly.
  • 10 5
 Sad it has an integrated battery instead of one thats swappable in between laps like the Transition Relay. 45lbs in a size small so a range extender just makes it a full fat ebike without a spot for a water bottle. Oh, and Fazua range extender doesn't come out until early 2025.
  • 9 3
 The Full Size DECOY is still available with its swappable 720wh Battery
  • 2 1
 Mine is a trick build for sure, but my XL Relay with dual coil suspension, a DH rear rim, one 1350-gram tire, 1 insert, pedals and tools/ CO2 on board weighs 44.4#s actually.
I do utilize the removable battery, but I would have preferred a fixed battery that was lighter with less contact issues (I haven't had any personally, but many have) and then just being required to drop the motor to remove the battery for park days, which is only a 10-minute job anyways once you know what you are doing.
  • 1 0
 @YTIndustries: Which would be around 55 lbs with that battery . I've daily driven a full fat eeb with a huge battery and it's fun but there's still room for improvement imo. The holy grail of self-shuttle bikes for me is 45-48lbs 400wh battery with an extra in the shuttle truck I'm no longer driving to the top. I do love a full fat Decoy though! It's the most common emtb I see in and around the bike park, but I'm seeing more and more Relays every day.
  • 1 3
 @SunsPSD: The integrated battery saving weight has been grossly over exxagerated by the industry imo. Look at the Canyon Spectral:On, the Trek Rail, hell even the full fat Decoy. How much weight does it really add? 1-2lb? If so, that's a easy tradeoff for me in order to double my ride time. I'm just not into piling a range extender on my not-so-light SL™ bike to make it heavy as a full power eeb.
  • 1 1
 @YTIndustries: I’m waiting on a720wh for Gen2 motor! When is it available??? Notify me!
  • 9 4
 I have a Transition Relay and love the FAZUA Ride 60 motor! In 4 months I have a little over 300 miles on it and haven’t had a single problem. I couldn’t imagine wanting a full power eMTB. This motor offers the right amount of support for any trail you would take a regular MTB. Galbraith and my other local trails have become so much more fun and I get in a lot more laps!
  • 1 0
 How much elevation can you get out on a single ride/charge? I haven’t tried light e-bike, but I tend to climb at least ~4000ft when I take the eeb out, I would find it frustrating to ride less than this.
  • 27 4
 300mi is not a lot of miles.
  • 3 0
 @rickybobby19: I’m not saying 300 miles is a lot. I’m just giving an accurate account on the FAZUA I have so far. So yes after 300 miles, I love it and have no regrets.
  • 1 0
 @catalanfc: in boost I’ll get 2500ft or so
  • 2 0
 @catalanfc: I have yet to do 4000ft, but I did get 2600ft and 17miles while in the middle setting (river) and still had 25% battery left. This is on the heavier aluminum Relay and me at 205lbs. Depending on weight, mode, and terrain, I would say 4000ft is around the limit. Nice thing is, if you do run out of battery, it pedals like a regular bike.
  • 5 0
 Give it time......
  • 10 1
 What's with the influx of bot accounts with copy and pasted comments??
  • 1 0
 I'm a real person. E bikes are great. Fazua is junk.
  • 20 12
 Ah yes, my bicycles motorized counterpart, the *not a motorcycle*
  • 8 1
 how might a natural ride feel be achieved without a motor? ah! no idea
  • 8 1
 I have no interest in an e-bike yet, but if I did, it would need to have a Bosch motor.
  • 4 0
 Bosch is not perfect,I have done over 6000 miles on my Whyte,and now on it's 3rd motor and 2nd battery
  • 2 2
 I would wait for that DJI system. Guessing it won’t show on other bikes till 2025. Specs for it and the battery are impressive.
  • 4 0
 @shapethings: DJI might get trade sanctioned into the dirt by then...

The one you should be looking out for is the ZF because they're a true competitor to Bosch.
  • 2 0
 @boozed: I've tried a Raymon with ZF and with Yamaha XM and would prefer the latter. Felt better, is way more silent.
  • 1 0
 Pretty weird to have such a strong opinion about something you have no experience with at all.
  • 1 0
 @venturavin: If you meant me, I have ridden Bosch bikes at the Sea Otter demo events. It's a brand I respect somewhat as opposed to Temuhaiboonying stuff I see around n the Busboy Superhighway (urban bike lanes)
  • 1 1
 @suspended-flesh: I'm not even sure what you're saying exactly, is that some kind of xenophobic statement about products made in Asia? Or is Temuhaiboonying something I am not aware of?
  • 1 0
 @venturavin: No, I'm only opposed cheap PRC junk made/sold by shell companies with inscrutable names designed to skip trademark and patent searches that is proliferating like cancer via Temu, etc. I have no real problem with other .Asian goods, people, culture, and philosophy except for whale hunting and the Japanese style of capital punishment
  • 1 0
 @TOMMY-T-one: Hence one of the reasons for my current (no pun intended) lack of interest. If the Bosches of the world don't have it dialed, it's betaware.
  • 1 0
 @suspended-flesh: If parts failing makes something betaware are you saying that the automobile is still betaware? Cause they've been in production nearly 150 years and break all the time.

You must really love your Bosch dishwasher. You're not wrong to dig Bosch, but you ARE wrong to write off the competition.

You do you. But if you're actually only waiting to get an ebike because you don't think the tech is there, it is there and you are robbing yourself of happiness holding out any longer. At least, as far as durability goes it's as good as it's gonna get. For the foreseeable future the battle will be for weight and power. Fine by me as long as the warranty departments keep picking up the phone.
  • 1 0
 @venturavin: I'm not 'holding out' for a reliable EB - I have no interest i riding one on trails. I drive a 25 year old Toyota truck and will drive it as long as I still want to to drive - not holding out for an EV either. I've been in IT for 30 years and I do not like the E-waste 'Next' mentality of the tech industry and the EB industry appears to be doing the same thing. At least an EB can be stripped of its motor and reused to a degree, unlike most EVs. I'd rather rob the landfill of disposable 'happiness'.
  • 9 1
 It’s already got a warranty case open
  • 6 2
 Being an ebike that's not possible to swap batterires, who wants an ebike limit to 30km/1200m (at best!)?

Really... those figures can be performed without any assistance!

Doing the same effort as above (30km/1200m), my full power ebike can do over 2.500m climb, and batteries are swappable!!!!
Sure it weight more, but who cares... really!!!!!
  • 2 0
 Do you have additional batteries and do you swap them on rides?
  • 5 0
 @parallaxid: I swap on long rides, yes.
Is it good to carry it on the back pack? No!
Is it possible not to carry?
Yes!
How?
Normally rides are a close loop. I started doing 8 figure tracks, parking the car in the middle.
What's a long ride?
±90km/100km and +3000m climb

I got further on the questioning.
Hope you don't mind
  • 10 2
 When will people understand that ebikes exist to improve "distance per time" and not distance, or effort. 30km/1200m is a nice tour and would take me 3-4 hours. With that bike I could do it in 2h before going to work instead of waiting for the hotter afternoon.
  • 2 0
 @Pussyslayer: ebikes are what people want.
I started as "self uplift", until I was enlighten that some Moto rides I do, were possible using the ebike!

A whole new planet open up!
Doing technical trails, with a bike (well an ebike!), far from usual trails!

For short rides, I prefer to take my bikes, orjust hit the gym
  • 3 0
 @Pussyslayer: edit: "ebikes are what people want to make out of them"
  • 2 5
 @Pussyslayer: motored-bicycles do not go twice as fast as bicycles. You need a moto-crosser for that. The industry is getting there, with its 120nM monsters, but it will take a while.

And go find the Pinkbike poll comparing mileage on bicycle vs motored-bicycle. People on motored-bicycles ride the same amount of miles than people on bicycles.

It the same effect that e-bikes have on city commute. People go marginally faster, and are lured in by the reduced effort. Mileage done does not go up one inch.
  • 1 0
 @tkul: swappable bateries make sense on large battery bikes. This isn't a large battery, long trip bike
  • 1 0
 @spaced: sorry I really don't understand your point of view.

Manufactures are playing all, simplifying the battery system, saving on complexity and future problems, and also saving on value (no need for latchs, and other).
If you buy a battery, you have to buy the top and bottom accessories.
On Bosch side only this 2 sides, can go up to 30euros.
Then you have all the parts to segure the latch to the frame and the battery bracket where is located the bike/battery plug.
Depending on manufacturer, you can go over 100euros easily.

So, in one smart move, you eliminated +100euros (for manufactures let's assume 30euros), as well as all warranty claims so many have (Trek Rail just for recall!).

So... it's stupid to remove the feature, when all should be focus on solution!
Batteries should all be easily remove
  • 7 4
 Bike is unrideable for where I ride. No bash guard. What is so hard about protecting the chain and motor. Whoever designed this thing needs to be held spread eagle I’ve a log and dropped on their nuts. Maybe they will understand about protecting delicate things.
  • 1 2
 Same with my turbo levo but I found a company that made one for my bike protect-emtb.com . looks like they make them for other brands too.
  • 5 0
 DECOY SN has downtube & motor protection plates, and chain slap guards on the chainstay and seat stay. Hopefully our nuts are safe for now...
  • 1 0
 It's actually a mess to add a real bash guard as there's no ISCG on these motors...
  • 3 0
 Lots of comments on the Fazua motor in here. I'm surprised as the Heckler SL and Relay both employ that motor. Are they *that* unreliable? Go easy, I know very little about these motors.
  • 12 1
 Yeah they're pretty unreliable
  • 9 1
 3 motor replacements this year in my relay. Spent most it's life in the shop. Supposedly they were all bad units, just wondering if they will ever make a good one.
  • 7 1
 heckler sl owner and I'm on 3rd motor in 6 months. Gen2 levo sl is the best sl I've ridden and will be my next bike.
  • 7 4
 My Heckler SL has been awesome. Over 1100 miles in 6 months and works as good as new. I think the small percentage of people who've had issues are crying out the loudest, but it doesn't speak for everyone.
  • 4 1
 No issues with my Relay or friends Heckler SL - after 12 months, even everyone's ranting about the controller is a storm in a teacup I think. It doesn't feel premium but works just fine.
  • 2 2
 @Dallasdownunder: exactly. I don't ride my ebike to experience a great controller or a color screen. Seriously, who cares?
  • 2 0
 Ring controller is cheap but fine and I’m sure they’re quick to replace.

But I just submitted my second motor warranty.

First motor shit itself after 12km of green trail.

Second motor shit itself today after a 40km ride on tarmac and then on the first climb at the trails it started to destroy itself.

I think they’re pretty unreliable but how will we know without numbers, that will never be released.

I’ll try 1 more motor and then claim a refund on the bike (Heckler SL).
Such a sick bike but such a let down.
  • 5 0
 Opra: “And YOU get a 443mm chainstay… and YOU get a 443mm chainstay… and YOU get a 443mm chainstay…”
  • 7 3
 North of 45l lbs and a 430 wh batt means that you’re gonna be pedaling hard more often than you think
  • 8 2
 Failzua
  • 1 0
 Has to be scary as hell guessing on what motor is going to be hot when you release a bike. Spend all that time making molds and wondering if some drone maker is going to make the thing dead on arrival. I loved my '19 Decoy for many years though.
  • 2 1
 Transition Relay was the biggest let down and WORST purchase of my adult life. 3 new motors this year but supposedly they just figured it out, finally. If it was a car it would be a lemon. I hope they fixed the quality issues , won't work, grinding sounds, just being total junk. I would drive hours to go ride and then not have a working motor when i got there. I would love this bike with the lightweight BOSCH, a REPUTABLE automotive level supplier.
  • 5 1
 Ayo, a longer travel SL bike is always welcome, and it's a looker too
  • 5 3
 Stoked you like it!
  • 4 0
 @YTIndustries: Bike looks great. But having a 442 chainstay on an XL or XXL is embarrassing. This shouldn't be happening in 2024. Plus the fazua is aids, why not go bosch?
  • 5 1
 Thats a beauty! Nice one YT
  • 1 0
 Ha ha the core 2 weighs the least and has the best drivetrain, and it costs less than similar weight ebikes from most companies. This bike isn't for me but I hope all brands sell their lightest ebikes at 6.5k soon.
  • 2 1
 Sometimes simple is best!
  • 3 1
 I'm not a fan of these weak motors, if you're going to ride an Eeb ride a damn Eeb. Also 2021 called and want their pricing back.
  • 8 9
 I think the bike looks amazing. Solid spec choices. The F60 complaints are over blown. At first there were some failures but those have since been cleared up and warranty repairs were quick and easy. Furthermore, it's the best performing mid-power motor by a large margin. To top it off they just updated the controller, and the battery is now a 480-watt unit, keeping it class leading.
  • 2 0
 I would love to see a shootout with some of the new ones that are just being rolled out. I don't know if the Fazua would come out tops tbh.
  • 6 3
 Umm. No the jury is still out on the updated motor but that controller they put in the relay wouldn't be good enough for a Walmart bike. 3 motor replacements in my Relay this year is absolutely insane
  • 5 5
 @rrolly: The only close competitor to the F60 is the Bosch SX. However, the Bosch SX comes up short in a few ways. It's wider, it's louder, it's way more visible, it requires more cadence to access the power. The F60 consistently is the most efficient with its battery juice and the F60 feels more natural and now the F60 with the new batteries that were just announced they have a full 20% more watts.
Not for nothing, the F60 is currently installed in 28 different model bikes, where-as the SX is in 2-4. When you need motor rebuilds or parts in the future you are going to want the more common unit.
Porsche/ Fazua has been busy working out the bugs in the F60 and soon they will give you the full 450 watts full time, not just in boost mode. That combined with their overall package and new 480 watt battery will be the lightweight full power unit everyone has been asking for.
The only place where the SX seems to have a leg up is in peak power, but you have to spin 100 rpms to access it anyways.
The loud and only 320-watt brose in the Spesh, as well as all of the HP TQ products that are horribly inefficient, just aren't in the same league.
  • 10 1
 On motor 3 with my santa cruz sl. 6 months old,oh and 2nd controller. Absolute crap.
  • 3 1
 @SunsPSD: sounds like you have a lot of experience in this area.
  • 4 0
 @SunsPSD: Giant/Yamaha Sync Drive Pro 2 shits all over the Fazua. 85nm, 400% support and only slightly heavier. Quiet, reliable, good service network and warranty support.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: Does Fazua have the same motor clutch rattle that Shimano, Bosch, the new DJI, etc... all seem to have when descending?
  • 3 0
 @thebradjohns: 2lb = "slightly"?
  • 2 2
 @thekaiser: no F60 rattle at all. The F60 also pedals really well with the motor off.
  • 4 1
 I just had an F60 motor die on me after 40km.

Second motor in 7 weeks.

The motor has the most recent serial number configuration, meaning it’s a motor from after all the issues have been fixed.

So nothing is over blown, douchebag of a comment from a fan boy.
  • 2 2
 @bouldertom: That truly sucks. Sorry to hear that.
  • 2 0
 @SunsPSD: $11,000aud bike that doesn’t work.

Plus I sold my previous frame.

So now if SC refund me for the Heckler (which they’ll probably fight)
I have no bike at all and what, have to spend money buying one even though I originally had one?

Shitty build quality does more than just rob people of bike time

I hope they’re embarrassed by their products and Fazua ends up closing its doors, if they even open as designed.
  • 2 0
 @thekaiser: no rattle cuz the bike is at the shop waiting for a warranty motor
  • 2 0
 Why can’t every company post seat post insertion measurement. Can’t find it anywhere on their website
  • 2 1
 Question that might sound daft to some however, with an integrated battery if it has a fault or eventuality dies with its charge cycle is that then the end of the frame?
  • 1 1
 the battery is easily replaceable I imagine same as Heckler SL, Pivot Shuttle etc
  • 1 0
 I mean.. Doesn't the Cannondale Moterra SL pretty much make all of these lower power/smaller battery/same weight bikes redundant?
  • 1 0
 That bike does seem to check all the boxes
  • 2 0
 well... the moterra comes with a 36 and a float x, wouldn't even put them close to same category on descends
  • 1 0
 The Pinkbike comments never fail to entertain! The bike industry is ahead of the game due to your technical knowledge & experience.
  • 2 0
 bronze cranks looking sweet!
  • 5 3
 I don't care. New Izzo, pls!
  • 1 3
 this^
  • 1 0
 Nothing wrong with the old one to be fair. Love my uncaged 7
  • 3 4
 Nice changes, but a nonremovable battery is a hard no for me. What's in 5 years (insert realistic charge cycle number please) when the capacity goes down? Landfill? Or is it possible to change it with a bit more tinkering?
  • 16 0
 How many times does this need to be answered? They’re not saying the battery is part of the frame. It’s just not removable via door on the down tube. If you need to replace a faulty battery, you drop the motor.
  • 5 0
 It's removable, you just unbolt the motor to do so. That's a pretty easy thing to do, just not the sort of thing you do in the middle of your ride to hot swap batteries for more laps (the thing the Transition Relay enables).
  • 2 0
 @BermJunky: I don't know who answered it how many times already, but your comment is the first time I'm reading it. Good to know. Let's hope the industry stays that way and doesn't follow phones
  • 2 0
 @daweil: Agreed, the phone market is a cautionary tale. Sure, the batteries on most ebikes can be removed and replaced if necessary, but even with that, though, there's a huge amount of stuff that needs to be streamlined and harmonized if we want any kind of sustainability. All the different motor mounts, motors not being nearly serviceable enough, batteries and motors all being proprietary, etc.

It's pretty easy to keep a mountainbike well maintained for a very long time (unless you break the frame). Throw the motor into the mix, and it's a different story. I'm afraid the only way that'll change if at some point a major market gets regulated in a way that mandates interoperability/compatibility. Given how hard it was for the EU to push through something as seemingly simple as mandating USB-C as a common charging standard for electronic devices, I'm not sure I'm too hopeful on that.
  • 1 0
 @g-42: yup. And then it's on the consumer to decide what to support which is why I was so sceptical in my original comment about it. As long as people buy more integrated stuff, companies will produce it. Apple wouldn't do the sh*t they do if people didn't buy it, and if Apple wasn't so successful all others wouldn't follow suit. And now we're in a bad equilibrium where you cannot really buy repairable competitive tech stuff anymore as a normal consumer.
  • 1 0
 LOVE IT! This might be one of the best looking YT's to date. When is the full power Decoy getting a revise?
  • 1 4
 "Most riders will rejoice as the Decoy SN's cable routing still enters the head tube from the sides. Inside, the cable guides are bonded into the frame using co-molded inner tube bonding, making cable installation a breeze."

Unless you run your brakes moto style, then it sucks.
  • 3 0
 Nope, moto style is an easy option. Just use another internal tube. It's prepared for that.
  • 2 1
 @Morrrice: if there are tubes from both sides of the head tube that go to the rear brake then props to the YT team.
  • 2 0
 @clivem25: this was my gripe too, but if it can truly be run oppo or “moto” then big props
  • 3 3
 Sweet looking bike, Nice weight and great colors and specs. Checks all boxes.
  • 1 0
 Has me anticipating a new Capra (non E). Any goss?
  • 2 4
 Any L size riders want to drop $8,500 on a bike with 470mm or 419mm chainstays?

If the L had the same F/R center ratio as the XXL or S sizes, the L would get 419mm or 470mm chainstays, respectively.
  • 1 0
 ️
  • 1 1
 like a Thrill E-Ricochet 160 hmm
  • 1 4
 It would be easy for them to fit the ZF motor inside this frame and make it a full powered bike at the same (or possibly less) weight.
  • 2 3
 What a insult. S1000 transmission on the core 3.
  • 1 1
 I know, WTF! They couldn’t even match the GX cassette. We’re only talkin about GX!
  • 2 0
 On the YT site it looks like only the rear mech is S1000.
  • 2 3
 can i get a non-motor version with epic downtube storage?
  • 1 0
 Just got myself a Focus JAM2 SL. And you could literally put two fully stuffed baguette in there for those long backcountry missions. Haven't tried it yet, though.
  • 1 1
 More power plz
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