DNS, DNF and DNA - Race Day at the Fort William World Cup

 Isn't it obvious? The one who has improved the most since last year!

 both!

 And everyone was counting him out before the race too! haha Im very happy for him and expect him to only do better as the season goes on

 Didn't expect Gwin to be that "bad" ... Kind of surprised but it happens I guess!
Well done for Sam, I just hope he'll be on the top of the box next time!

 Bad karma for gwin ....

 The Athertons won" you know" which is great "you know" cos its a hard race "you know" so to win is great "you know" there brother and sister "you know" and the did it riding a GT "you know" in front of the home crowd "you know" which is a big help "you know" so thanks for all the support "you know".

 dafuq did i just read...

 Listen to any Atherton interview and you'll understand.;-)

Even Mark Beaumont does it now.

 Yeah, "It's mega".

 Hahahahah You know

 He was going really fast "if ya like"

 "I'm not just saying that"

 Of note, Nigel states that Sam lost the ability to shift (cable issue) before the motorway section, keeping him in 4th gear for the rest of the run. If so, that's a smashing run by him, and if you look at the split times, it indicates that Sam was in 2nd place right before that mechanical. Looks like he's right up to speed.

 congrats Sams and BMac(kovarik2.0)! were they all on flats?

 This is going to be the best world cup season in a while, so many guys up for the title: Gee, Hart, smith, macdonald, hill ,sik mik the list goes on ...

 yes , "we know"

 lookin/hopin for SHill comeback and a SSmith arrival this season.

 you know...i know...we all know

 Gee only said ''You know'' ONCE in a 40 second interview, frikkin once! Major improvement

 Defo mate! He was the highlight of the weekend for me! Gt a photo with him too

 Brooks Ginormous elephant legs win medals

 yeah boi!!! nz's taking over the podium. good work boys!!!

 Need this flow to carry on, bulldog is on a roll, blinky looking fast, cam always a pinner

 you CANNOT argue with the results. And he's not hating on Gwin, just pointing out that trek lost their top rider which seemed like a disaster at the time only to have their new rider out perform Gwin by a good margin. I really think gwin is riding at the same level as last year while everybody has stepped up their game to try and beat him. The same thing happened after Sam Hill dominated the 2007 season, it woke everybody up to what was possible on a bike and in 2008 we had different winners again. On that note its amazing to see Sam Hill getting back up to speed on the same track that took him out in 2010

 Brooke was Junior World Champ in 2009. He's been "at Gwinns level" before Gwinn was winning races.

 Yeah - I love how they have mics down so you can HEAR the bikes go by. That is huge in my opinion - it just amps me up...especially when you hear the bzzzzzzz of hte hubs along with rims being crushed into the ground. So awesome.

 It was really great, but i wished they had more coverage in the middle section where it gets dark and nasty due to all those ruts and trees.

 For real that's the best part of the race and they didn't show any of it

 yeah Blinky!!

 Yea NZ!!

 Was blenki on clips or flats for this race?

 Stoked for Blenki

 if the pic is his run then he's clipped in

 Clips

 daaaam nz you killin it!

 flat pedals win medals

 The way he was spinnin through that whip would be extremely difficult to do on flats, my 2 cents

 Flats

 COME ON YOU WEAPON, GIVE IT SOME PASTY!!!!

 Hell ya watching him last year in whistler take the triple crown was unreal and the fact he keeps making progress on the WC circuit makes me proud to have a fellow countryman sitting on podiums.

 "Gee, is there something you changed about your training that you can attribute you this victory?"
Gee: "Well, you know, falconry."

 Whipping all the way

 i think we can definitely call 20th a dodgy result.

 timsim because he proclaimed himself recently as the fastest rider there is bla bla so he is bound to have people jumping on his back when he fails. I think everybody expects better from him next week and that may happen and may not but a new bike is not the reason for his sub par performance, he went quicker in main than in quali but just nowhere near quick enough (much like Minaar). In actual fact running up to this Gwinn was clearly very confident.

query - has he won any races this year yet since signing to Spesh? Crash or glory @ V.D.S.

 He won at Sea Otter, which makes yesterday a big shock really.

 So winning at Sea Otter is a prelude to who should win the actual world cup races........... Mind, Blown.

 He won a NW Cup, and Stevie did as well this year. Not a WC, but pretty stacked with those guys.

 He won at sea otter......but wasnt it on a 29er?

 Don't be butthurt about Gwin's vid, at the time that was recorded, he WAS the man to beat. Fastest in the world is not a proud statement but a factual one.

you could even argue he's the fastest until someone else wins a wc title, or you could say he was the fastest until yesterday, I care not which. It goes both ways when you're talking about football champions (eg, reigning champion until the start of the season or until the new champion is named)

 Gwin is at home spinning right now ... and there is a fire burning inside him to get back up there. One race. It's too soon to call fellas.

 Sea Otter doesn't count. It's not even close to a world cup track.

 ^this is very true

 buddy, Aaron hasnt win ANY domestic race during the off season, qualified POORLY for the first WC and did even worst on his race run. Wether its him, the bike, the team or the pressure on his shoulders, something IS up with him...You'd have to blind not to see that.The Gwin Ive watched racing yesterday simply wasn't the same he used to be and I dont expect to see him dominate again this year... A bad day for Gwin on his Trek would have been 3rd spot on the podium and a terrible 5th...not 20th...Hec I cant even remember if he's done that bad when he was with Yeti . . . a few months after he started riding a freaking mountain bike !!!!!!!!!!!

 Actually, in April, Gwinn won the domestic race known as the Sea Otter Classic. Maybe that's not a "real" DH course, but it's still a race against the best in the world and he won.

 And he won on a 29er.....eeeewwww.

 I think it's entirely possible that the bike suits Troys style.

 Didnt he pretty much change every sponsor he had except fox?

 Obviously the Demo isn't the best downhill racer out there, but spesh make some of the best road and xc bikes, maybe they have a new bike in the line up for next season? A work man should never blame his tools.. or something like that

 Its, A bad workman always blames his tools

 Don't forget that Troy won 2 World Champs & Sam won 1 World Champs and a WC Series on a Demo. And Morgane Charre won the Women's World Champs last year, if anyone had noticed. It's a pretty solid race machine by most accounts.

 bike is fine clearly, ever looked at what is consistently in the the top placings at local, national and international races? everyone i know on a demo 8 is freakin quick.

 He made suspension adjustments morning of race. Perhaps that didn't bode well for him.

 he went quicker than in the quali so his setup changes did work clearly, anybody saying he didn't look fast needs a little wake up, jesus christ he was fast across the top with no doubt, he just wasn't fast enough mid way onwards and if you ask me he looked like he ran out of heart half way down near the entry to the woods. bad day at the office - let's see what he pulls out @ VDS.

 What? His race time was like 4 seconds faster than his qualification time

 I have a Demo too and I dont have the same problems. For me Demo is super sick and fast on rough tracks. A matter of opinion maybe.

 Mine has CCDB in rear and it works great for me. Might not be as good in rough as other bikes but I've never had a problem or complaint. I've ridden several other current DH bikes too.

 "bike park geo"? The Demo's geometry was built exactly to Sam Hill's specifications. If that's not DH geo, perhaps you can tell me what is?

 Have you ever ridden other bike than a DEMO ? Have you ridden any of the VPP s ? The M9 or the V 10 ? Well those are D H bikes , Nooo The DEMO wasnt built to Hills specifications . It was their old Freeride rig with a few modifications . Because Specialized cares too much to their retarded F S R linkage ! And Sam s GEO was only for the SMALL size frame that he was riding ! Think about it ! In whatever the size they came they had the SAME REAR END ! That being said the M , or L had the rear end way tooo short ! And look at all Sam Hill s crashes : They were all because of drifting ! ( REAR END TOO SHORT EVEN FOR HIS SMALL FRAME )

 The Samll one had its wheeel base in the range of a Medium sized of a bike from a different producer ! YOU GUYS SHOULD CHANGE THE GEO ! YES Look at the other bike s for C Sake ! In 2013 even SCOTT invested the money ! You dont want to become the next ELLSWORTH ! For average JOE ( and me ) yes it is a nice bike , but for W C NO NO NO it aint ! AARON GWiN will tell you that !

 If GWiN will ask you to change the GEO of the bike DO iT ! because he come s from riding an EVO LiNK , which is by far WAY better then FSR ! I owned in the past a session 88 ( 2009 ) and on the rough sections I did not get as much feeedback in my legs as I get from the Demo ! I love the Demo on the big jumps though ! But still it aint and wont be a W C bike !

 I'll run your suggestions by Aaron. So far he hasn't asked me to change the Demo goes.

 I don't know how Specialized has survived without BarbaroszA in the engineering department

 Barbarosza is an internet engineer so he knows all !

 HAHHAHHAHAHHA )))))) I just OWNed a DEMO ! for the last 2 years ! , and If I hadnt SOLD it yet it means I love it badly ! but I dont use it for DOWNHiLL! I just use it for the fun it is to jump it ! For DH i use an M 9 ! it might not have the wheels alligned but whatever

 go home protour, not many people respect your opinion

 It's funny you say that because the 1st thing Sam said after his 1st ride on the nukeproof was "I can't believe how well it carries speed"! Maybe the demo rear suspension doesn't work well with Gwins unique style and settings?

 Oh protour, what would pinkbike be without you :') very exciting race, this year has to be one of the most exciting WC's in a while! Good to see so many riders back on form! was hoping fairclough would do better, but fort Bill isn't his track

 Something else that I think is interesting is the fact the during the Australian DH series Hill was a few seconds down from Troy at nearly every race. Well only time will tell now.

 Gee won because of he got what it takes for Ft.William .. he nailed 1st place in every split timing

 Aerodynamics, tight jerseys. Protour, you're funny. I enjoyed that laugh thank you sir

 Why does Protour still comment on things? Even if he actually has a decent point it will be overlooked because of all the stupid crap he has put on it the past. Get yourself a new account man and fewer silly comments!

 In 2002, Clive Woodward noted that the England rugby team would have scored four more tries that season if they were wearing tight shirts instead of baggy. Lo and behold, everyone now wears a tight one.

The no skinsuits rule is a load of shit. They should be allowed to wear whatever they want. Obviously tighter is faster, but what is a skinsuit and what is a tight jersey?

 haha @ Protour, funny dude, i enjoyed that.

I bet TWR are having a fat piss taking session at Specialised behind close doors

 The corporate fat cats at Trek must be laughing all the way to the bank. Gwin leaving rocked their world more than the Lance scandal, and now this. There is no better advertisement for the Session than complete domination in Gwin's hands, followed by his not turning up at the first race for Spesh and Brooky's 2nd place first time out. Dare I say it, I might even consider a Session for my next bike instead of a Wilson carbon.

 Want just me that noticed the fitted shirt then either...

Gwin had a bad race, shit happens but why did he have to storm off in a huff after his run?

 Aero becomes significant after 30kph, how fast were these boys going?

 I hate to be on Protour's side (neg prop away) but I found it interesting how tight Gee's jersey was. Even after his run he too almost seemed concerned about it. He was constantly pulling it off his body as if to make it appear baggier then it was. Almost as if he was worried the UCI was going to say something. Did he win cause of his tight jersey? No. Was it noticeably tighter then everyone else's? Yes.

 Interesting comments about the jersey, it's pretty obvious that when you put this much time and effort into training to find that last .05 seconds you have to look at all your equipment. Gee kinda led the trim fit look but everyone is doing it now. I suppose it's debatable whether a little extra fabric makes that much difference but it's definitely clear that a flapping XL jersey isn't fast. I like it, it makes everyone look pinner and pro. Oh, but please, please, please stop tucking in the jersey, it looks so dorky, lol.

 I think it looks not so cool also, but tucking in your jersey is about as easy of a way there is to save time in a DH race. The ruffles that are created by loose jerseys not tucked in are speed killers, aerodynamic testing in the past has always confirmed this and the difference is noticeable. I don't care much about props, and besides lately I have been getting more support on some of my posts. I care more about people countering my assertions with actual facts or at least ideas that make sense and once again nobody has done that here.

 Tucking, ruffles, HAHAHA stop it protour you are such a comedian i love it! Link to this so called DH jersey study? Then we might take you seriously - might. You want "facts" but don't present any yourself? What are you, an American politician? I neg propped you btw - you said you don't care right?

 Protur, can you be more stupid? You even race?

Don't you see it? People make fun of you because you are a moron. Stop making those dumb comments, you *think* you know about everything but the reality is that you just talk out of your ass.

 Skin suits are an advantage, that's why the UCI banned them a few years ago. Try one at your next DH race and you'll see.

 This study says a tight jersey is 8% faster than a cycling jacket:

janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/aerodynamics-of-real-world-bicycles


But here is the real heartbreaker for the clones who doubted me. This article talks about studies that have shown loose clothing to be significantly less aero than tighter fitting clothing and references 16 studies or articles that explore bicycles and aerodynamics:

sportsnscience.utah.edu/does-the-right-type-of-clothes-get-you-where-you-need-to-go-in-depth

This next article talks about the importance of aerodynamics in DH racing but unfortunately the Yeti team didn't compare the differences between tight and loose jerseys because everyone wore tights back then:

www.alicehui.com/bicycling/Buying%20&%20Reviews/Catching%20big%20aero.htm

Who is laughing about aerodynamics now, haters

 That last study on aerodynamics and DH Racing didn't include a comparison because practically everyone was smart and wore a tight fitting jersey back. Then Palmer came along and made the sport 'cooler' somehow with everyone wearing ox jerseys 2x too big. In the process of cooling down the sport with baggies Napalm cost himself a World Championship when Nico nipped him with tights in Australia, but somehow the sport never took aerodynamics seriously after the skinsuit ban till I noticed some tighter fitting lately. Who is going to be the first racer to have the balls to wear tight jeans in a big race? It would be legal and faster, and it's essentially what some guys wear in slopestyle. It's going to become a bigger issue in the sport as the sport looks and the speeds of the World Cup tracks seem to be increasing as they become more wide open. Give Gee the credit for being a trendsetter, just like Greg Lemond when he won the tour using aerobars in the last time trial back in the 80's.

 Skinsuits are banned, but tight jesrseys are ok? Is that the rule? A skinsuit being like the black rubber one Tomac used years ago? What if you just want to wear a small tight jersey because you think it looks better? Is that allowed? I have to say, I think baggy clothes look shit, but I'd also never wear skinny jeans. Maybe I'm too old at 32, but I think they look pretty gay. Fitted Italian shirts though, show off the gun show? Looks ten times better than a bag of bones skinny guy in an XL MX jersey

 I'm not sure if it's the material or the tightness that is banned, it probably is at the discretion of the UCI. But clearly their is alot of room for improvement for most of the racers if Gee can get away with wearing that. I wouldn't wear tight jeans either, probably wouldn't be comfortable, unless they were like these that Marco Pantani used to race in:

www.bike24.com/i/p/6/0/23106_01_d.jpg

They were functional also, you could put your shades in the back pocket. These one's might really fool the UCI:

farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2503453576_f41863a5cc_o.gif

But I don't think this Fignon's overall kit would fool them:

cyclingweekly.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11141/0000041c1/e5a0/WATSON-00001644-688.jpg

 As much as we all hate to agree with ProTour - he is right about the aero advantage. When races are won by tenths and sometimes hundredths of a second, aero becomes a real factor.

 the fact is.............

gee's jersey was borderline illegal.
the uci needs to watch his type of stuff, kinda chessy and def. not cool.

ya think some uci official would have clued in to reid's mom and her handy dandy sewing machine station too....

i know, i know, if ya ain't cheatin, you are only cheatin yourself...heard it a million times.

but gee's jersey was wack.............

§ 3 Clothing and protective accessories
4.3.011 All lycra-elastane based tight-fitting clothing is not permitted.
4.3.012 A full-face helmet must be worn properly both when racing and when training on the
course. The helmet must be fitted with a visor. Open-face helmets may not be worn.
4.3.013 The UCI strongly recommends that riders wear the following protection:
• back, elbow, knee and shoulder protectors made of rigid materials;
• protection for the nape of the neck and the cervical vertebrae;
• padding on shins and thighs;
• broad full-length trousers made from rip-resistant material incorporating protection
for the knees and calves, or broad-cut shorts made from rip-resistant material plus
knee and calf protectors with a rigid surface;
• long sleeved shirt;
• full finger gloves.

gee's jersey was not lycra-elastane based , but it was very tight fitting, so much so that the jersey was modified to achieve the performance advantage.

 I think you're right, it was borderline illegal. The arms were baggy, but the body was road bike tight.

There's an error in the wording too, as it refers to a visor, meaning a peak. A visor is like on a street motorbike helmet and you look through it. No one in DH uses a visor, they use peaks. And why is one necessary? What if it breaks off like Beaumont's last year? DQ? Actually they used to use Simpson Bandit helmets with visors on the Kamikaze back in the days of JMC.

 Ok experts - there were a lot of riders in what you might call "tighter" jerseys. Not just the Atherton racing team, look @ Polygon for example, in fact go and scan across the team pics and make an informed decision. And FYI a tight jersey can be obtained very easily with a tucking exercise and some tie wraps or similar to keep it tight, do you have any idea what the testing / QA analysis by the UCI consists of to deem a jersey as illegal? Thought not. I know several pro racers that use a tie in on their trouser bottoms and tops to bring them in - in your expert opinion does that make them illegal?

And as for saying the top was road bike tight, come on man get real !

 He wasn't wearing a lycra-elastane-based jersey, so it was legal. Didn't look like a jersey that would stretch much.

I'm curious though, what exactly does lycra-elastane based really mean? Would it mean a piece of clothing was legal as long as lycra-elastane based material is not the main fabric? Sounds like this rule could be exploited to create even tighter fitting clothing if someone wanted to get creative.

 You don't have to have it fitted at all if you get a smaller size and make it stretch.

 Logan DNF, ropatelo did not race?

 Disapointing seeing as KHS has been pushing their 27.5 a lot.

 them KHS boys actually made this article DNS, DNF...XP

 Yeah it was interesting not to see ropelato

 Ropelato was not there, but he's in Val Di Sole currently.

 He got one or two of them out, not as many as usual - but the racing was pretty tight for the elite mens. There weren't many times where the splits or finish times got obliterated.

 I believe he did refer to Danny Hart's testicles as being the size of weather balloons at one point.

 One comment mentions Sam had a mechanical (cable issue) and couldn't shift down, so he probably would'vet been higher, but yeah, chill it.

 How can you conclude that Gwin and Minaar's winning days are over?! One bad result from the most dominant fore in DH for years and his days are numbered? Get serious! As for Minaar, you could have argued the same dumb thing years ago, when he didn't take home a win for several years, and Gee for that matter..

I'm not a big Gwin fan, actually he started to grow on me a little last year as he appeared more genuine and humble, but his recent egotistical 'fastest man in the world right now' thing annoyed me, how can anyone be that big headed. Even if it were true due to his dominating riding over the past 2 seasons. Think it, don't say it! Anyway, something clearly was wrong for Gwin yesterday, he flew straight to the exit at the end, he knew it wasn't good. I find it strange that both him and Troy squashed the second table top, the only guys to do it...

And Minaar? He admitted he didn't think it was a race winning run when he we sat on the hot seat admitting some small mistakes at the top...

I don't support any one guy. I'm happy to see whoever win (though was sick of seeing Gwin win), but I'm seriously getting tired of the hating on bikes and riders after one round. It's just pathetic.

 Hard to really consider what you're saying after just one race.

* V10's may be getting long in tooth.
* Demo's ARE long in tooth.
* Off season development may have gone in the wrong direction for some of these guys.
* Greg was definitely willing to talk about his issues and was very candid about his problems. He's thinking about it!
* The GT is brand new and well thought out and developed. Some of the things Rachel said about the bike design wise are the culmination of a lot of good ideas that
have been bubbling too the top for some time.

 Haha bollocks! Look at Danny harts win in champery? 11 second lead... Since then what has he won? Not much... The most consistent in Gee by a long shot. Sam Hill had right speed. I think with top 5 riders having just 1 second difference it's down to the bike... Gwinn was the fastest rider last year. He looked absolutely unstoppable but where are they now? The young guys are coming up and taking over. The juniors were within 15 seconds of the WC top 5. Give them a bit of training. They will be top. Riders are all so close. It's down to the bike. And unless gwinn and minaar get the bike sorted. I really do think their time is up. Both of them were faster than gee last year.

 Why do you say bollocks then turn around and say "It's down to the bike" when you can tell from my post that I believe they are a large part of the equation?

And notice I say equation? The rider is the other part of that. Riders CAN overcome short comings of their bikes. Top level racers have been doing it for a long time. Based on the honesty and thoughtfulness of the response from Minnar there is a very good possibility that he may find what the issues are rectify them in time for Val Di Sole. Gwin on the other hand may have a rougher go as the bike is a lot newer too him.

But that's neither here nor there.....

If you look at the last couple of seasons, I see your point. However, we don't have enough data yet FROM THIS SEASON to see if you're right. I like all of these guys so I'll be stoked as hell just to see how it turns out. :-)

BTW, I'm going to follow your profile. I think we should keep this convo in mind and see where this 5hit goes over the next couple of races. Game? :-)

 Haha. Yeah bro! I'm game! Be interesting to see what happens! I think everyone has their own opinion on the whole situation. I think minaar and gwinn are over for this season due to the bike. But well see if I'm proven wrong. it ain't worth an argument over I don't think, as it ain't our career. It's theirs. But I'm up for a little debate speak soon bro! P.s my "bollocks" comment was meant to be aimed at clarky78 regarding minaar and gwinn being over.

 You guys are a tough crowd. The Carbon Demo was brand new last year and it's already "long in the tooth".

I guess we'll have to start making bikes every season, and I mean winter, spring summer and fall - like shoes and clothing

 jason don't forget mid-season updates on paintwork and special editions if / when Gwinn takes a win.

 Which brings us to eight bikes a year, if two per season. Get on it Spesh, you said it mang!

 @jason-at-specialized: C'mon! A carbon version of the same old design is what? Yeah, the same old design made with a different material.

How much has the demo 8 changed since 2010? Enough that it's a new bike? No. Refinements over the years? Of course, but let's not try to put the idea in peoples heads that the Carbon Demo is somehow new because it's made out of Carbon.

So I say, "Yes!", the bike is long in tooth when judged against what is an obvious emerging trend in bike design. It's that simple. Is it a bad design? No. My Shockwave 9.5 isn't a bad design either. It's just a dated one.

Step it up! You have it in you to build some cool 'ish. Just go do it instead of trying to play word games on Pinkbike.

 It seems Specialized has an ego problem. It's even permeated to their customers. I can't stand specialized stores, their better than thou employees, and their fan boys.

 Uh oh.... I think specialised are gunna get some criticism....

I will back them up a little. I'm kind of on the fence... Last night I was thinking... Remember Sam Hill on a spesh? He was f*ckin turbo. With nitrous too. I can build a bike from scratch. But if I'm honest. I don't fully understand geometry. BUT. that said, if a riders natural taken is in cornering, surely he sho,d be given a bik fast in cornering? If someone is fast through rough sections. Give him a bike to suit... Gwinn was on fire last year. Maybe a move to specialized was a bad idea. Specialized do make fantastic bikes. We've all seen them win in the past... But if a rider is fast on a corner and ya give him a bike for rocky sections. I think your on a losing streak there strait away. The rider himself isn't quick where the bike can be and the bike is not capable of being thrown around where the riders talents lay. Apologies for repeating myself like 10 times in this post... I'm half asleep. Ranting on... But yes! Specialized. Don't feel bad about your bikes. We all know you are capable of winning. And you do make beautiful bikes. (I'm a scott man myself Gambler all the way) but if ya want my advice! I'd be trying to poach Sam Hill back for next year!

 OK, I can take it. The Carbon Demo is new-ish and not totally new. In addition to dropping 1/2 lbs by switching to carbon, it also has a lower BB option, a more progressive leverage ratio and a 135 rear end option for 7-speed drivetrains. I hope that will tide you over until we a do ground up version,

 @jason-at-specialized: "...new-ish and not totally new. ..."

In other words, further refinement, which is totally awesome! Please keep it up because this competition means the next ground up version is bound to be fracking awesome! :-)

 Petulance. You guys should be angry at how patronizing this is. "I guess we'll have to make bikes every season". Really? You represent a huge company. But I do commend you. You got BALLS to talk to your own customers that way. No wonder the Spesh LBS have the same attitude. Sure, your bikes sell a lot, I won't deny that, but c'mon show some respect to those who pay your salary. Have a good evening

 Yknow what, lets bury the hatchet, ill be the first to apologize for my tone. I just chalk it up to the pressure and spotlight they're currently under, unfortunately without the tools to properly handle a situation like this. It's good practice so they'll surely come out stronger and more resilient

 Hahaha this is the most replies I've ever had to a post! I'm off to live my life now and stop worrying about a company that makes bikes, or an Americans career. My life is too short to worry about it... The A Team was clearly a sign that the name Atherton would eventually dominate

 you mean twice? let's not forget he only beat Hart by a second in 2011.

 This was qualifying I think!

 Yep, quali that was.

 yeah its on there, think he's really struggling on the demo

 dont be so quick to shoot gwin down! If you were offered more money to ride for a team that lets you choose all of your equipment then im pretty sure anyone would take it! He still has plenty of time to prove himself

 It wasn't arrogance, you can't argue that he didn't dominate the past two years, he was the fastest man in DH when he said that. Was.

 I don think we can blame the Demo entirely.. Troy was on the same frame and beat him and he's just come out of a rough injury, but I don't know maybe it suits some people and not others.

 the athertons went to GT, spent a year there, tooled up the fury just for them, now have a bike made for their riding style, and suddenly Gee's on form! I'm going to give Gwin a season at spesh and see what happens when the bike is designed for him too...

 Hey guys, each to their own. When did a demo last hit number 1 position in the elite category.......when sam hill was riding. Maybe the geometry needs changing to keep up with other bikes.

 gwin should ride for Schwinn not for spesh.....lol

 Have you guys not cfonsidered there is likely a new Demo in the works, probably a 29er Demo as well. Gwin had to know the Demo is not nearly as good as his session was, but he likely made the decision based on the new unreleased bike, and wasd hired for design input as well as race results. The geometry on the current Demo is a series bandaid tweaks that aren't working well together. They took a good FR design, and tried to make it a DH racer. The melding doesn't work well. Marketing is also pushing geometry too far. Too slack with too short CSs results in an unbalanced bike. The session got it right. Unfortunately, there are only 20 or so guys in the world who can push a RACE bike to its limits. Most of us would be faster on a good AM bike.

 Wow- neg props for that comment?

 Yeah, well you forgot to mention... they didn't let him choose his bike! Maybe he should rethink things... but cash is king right.

self appointed Gwin & Specialized hater.... haters going to hate... I like to criticize... and its fun too!

 do people not realize that a lot of dh bikes have short chainstays? The Devinci Wilson does.

 People realize it, and question the design. There is such a thing as too short. If you understand geometry as a whole, and not just HTA and CSL, you would understand why people see too short in back, too long in front as a problem.

 I dont see how you can say gwin must have changed brands because he knew there was a new demo in production or a new demo 29er. Even if there was, whos to say he would win on that new bike. I like debate. Hes on carbon bike at the mo, like he was on trek, but still a terrible result...... you had 3 ali bikes in the top 5 the weekend. Which proves weight aint all that Spec need to sort it out for him.

 I didn't say "must have" I said "likely." There is a rumoured demo 29er in the pipeline. It isn't a huge secret. Trek doesn't appear to have anything with 650b or 29 near ready to race. I suspect that is part of the equation.

 to me, people are grasping at straws. Gwinn rode the Demo before signing to Specialized and said it was quicker than his Session. The Demo geometry was mainly designed from Sam, Troy and Brendan's input.

 people are making a lot of suppositions about Gwin's performance. You don't know if it was the bike or not. He may have just been sick. It looked as though he could push that bike pretty well when that video came out like a month ago, and all the fanboys spooged their drawers over it. Now all of a sudden, the Demo sucks... Calling him a sellout is poor form too. Race at WC level, perform like a champion, then make that call. Until then, you're just guessing and looking a fool.

 well said

 Sam did better last year on his Demo and was out of shape. Troy Brosnon won a lot of Junior races and championships on his Demo. He also had the fastest trap speed yesterday. Know I know why some parents eat their young.

 He may have been a position higher last year but he was a lot closer time wise to winning with a mechanical. Look at the split times and you'll see.

 Why exactly isn't a DH bike?

 I rode the past models of the Demo, except the 2010 model. The difference between the 2007/2008/2009 models and the 2011 is gigantic. You can easily say that the previous model was a more of a freerider than a racer's bike. The longer shock made o huge difference along with the geometry(lower BB). Other bikes that i rode were the Revolt and the new DHR. The Revolt was a bit sluggish for my liking and was more of a point and shoot kind of bike. The DHR was a real nice bike that pedaled incredibly but the feedback in the pedals was too much. Really harsh, no matter the settings of the shock. After half a season with the DHR i was back on the Demo(2011 model, size M) and what a ride it was. The pedal feedback was out. I stopped 2 times because i thought i had a flat tire. I could go faster on the rough stuff and straight lines. The downside was pedal clipping and loosing too often the back end of the bike on off camber and on flat cornering, also under heavy braking the rear was skipping sideways. I was forced to ride too far on the rear of the bike. Me personally(average Joe) see this as a too short chainstay for a Medium size bike. When i switched to a Small(i am 176 cm tall) even if the cockpit was a bit tight, the ride quality increased. I felt more comfortable from the first second. I was more centered on the bike and all the problems listed above somehow dissapeared. I think the DEMO has a too short of a chainstay. I now Specialized "believes" in short chainstays and all that but for a DH bike 420mm is too short. At least for the larger models. The chainstay i think should be in close relation with the size of the bike otherwise you will have a hard time adjusting your position on the bike. This is just my opinion, and no matter what pro rides the Demo, this is the way i feel about Specialized's DH bike.

 tudorm - thanks for that articulation. The short chainstay is perhaps not for everyone. Its great for cornering and for many people's riding style, but I appreciate that it may not be ideal some riding styles. BTW - you can raise your BB if you want to reduce pedal clipping.

 I did ! But If I do that then the HEAD ANGLE is steeeper I guess and its steeper with 1.5 . It may be the supreme bike for FUN RiDE , like Whistler or any bike park with A LiNE features ( dont get me wrong I would never UNDERapreciate Whistler ! ! ! ! I am only talking about ALiNE ) But in a W C you ll have 80 % of the track filled with ROUGH sections !

 Jason, regarding pedal clipping i got used to it the next day, so raising the BB is not necessary at all. As i said, i "solved" the problem by going down a size. I also made it 1 degree slacker with an angle set. I did this to get a bit more length in the wheelbase, not because i needed it to be slacker. Doing this i had to go to a 55mil stem instead of 50 to compensate for reduced Reach that comes along with an angleset. Please don't get my previous post as a bad critic. It's not the case. Take this as an info. This is my almost 6 years experience with the Demo bikes(along with others). Will i go with the Demo from now on?...You bet!

 Thanks tudorm!

 Jason, while I appreciate your passion for the sport and the machine, I would stop posting if I were you. You're not doing any favors for Specialized in this forum currently.

 I am simply trying to understand people's perceptions and viewpoints, and offering insight and fact where I can.

 Yes, cuban-b, you're right. jason-at-specialized should stop posting. We wouldn't want to actually have insight into a manufacture's approach to design. That would just be absurd. And for sure, we don't want bike manufacturers reading and responding to real time comments from critics and customers - can you imagine how screwed-up the industry would be? Please, jason-at-specialized, in the name of all that is good, stop commenting. You're forcing potential conversations that might require thoughtful consideration of multiple points of view. And, heaven forbid, your participation on this forum might actually inform future product development.

 ^ nice. Way to be diplomatic guys.

 Jason your tone is obvious and deliberate, and makes me sour on your brand, excuse me, the company you simply work for, and this is coming from a specialized owner. Look through my pics . Go ahead be proud and 'stand your ground', but public relations is a big deal. No hate, I'm just commentating at this point

 qualifying times

 You sure that wasnt qualies?

 Danny came 1st in qualifier. Not in main race. Gee won,

 not sure, was just on the UCI website and looks to have things in the correct order for DH rankings.