FOX Introduces Live Valve Suspension Technology
PRESS RELEASE: Fox Factory
Introducing Live Valve, our most advanced electronically controlled suspension system for mountain bikes.
FOX Live Valve Equipped Scott Genius
Suspension has revolutionized the world of mountain bikes making them faster, and more capable than anyone would have imagined 25 years ago.
Current suspension offerings provide excellent dampening and travel adjustments that can tailor your bike to the way you ride, though many riders can find it hard to get the most out of their suspension setup. Live Valve takes these systems into the future by addressing the ongoing compromise between suspension compliance and pedal efficiency with ultra-fast reacting sensors and the fastest valve we've ever created to automatically adjust the fork and shock independently as the terrain changes.
Designed from the ground up by our Advanced Products Group, Live Valve senses the terrain you’re on and adjusts accordingly. Like our advanced powersport suspension systems, such as in the Baja proven Ford Raptor and Polaris Razor UTV, Live Valve optimizes the way you interact with your suspension and the terrain you encounter.
The core of the system, the Suspension Controller, monitors terrain at a rate of a thousand times per second and makes compression adjustments in just three milliseconds – that’s one hundred times faster than the blink of an eye. In fact, Live Valve is fast enough to sense a bump at the front wheel and open the fork before the rider feels it. With strategically placed sensors, the Controller processes terrain data and constantly adjusts the suspension for maximum efficiency and control no matter what the trail throws at you.
Utilizing Pitch Detection, the system can recognize when you’re climbing, traversing or descending, and tailor the suspension settings to maximize your bike’s performance.
Attack a climb and Live Valve will keep the wheels firmly planted as you put the power down, fine-tuning the suspension to maintain traction and efficiency.
Push into a corner and Live Valve will help keep your bike balanced, absorbing braking bumps and undulating terrain while you focus on your exit speed.
Live Valve is even smart enough to recognize when you get airborne. As both wheels leave the ground and you begin to free fall, Live Valve adjusts the suspension to provide a comfortable landing.
On descents, Live Valve gives the bike a more active ride to better absorb hard impacts and improve performance at higher speeds. Your suspension becomes plusher, providing more comfort and grip.
A summary of the Live Valve technology
• The Live Valve system monitors each wheel independently up to 1000 times per second.
• The speed of Live Valve provides suspension control at a level not possible with conventional design, adjusting the suspension over 450 times an hour during a typical trail ride.
• As bumps are detected, Live Valve switches to the open mode in 3 milliseconds. This is 100 times faster than the blink of an eye!
• If the accelerometer detects zero gravity (freefall) for longer than 25 milliseconds (or 0.025 seconds), such as during a jump or drop, the suspension automatically opens to allow the next impact.
• The technology behind Live Valve is a combination of two traditional damping circuits with an electronic valve.
• The Live Valve system monitors each wheel independently up to 1000 times per second.
• The speed of Live Valve provides suspension control at a level not possible with conventional design, adjusting the suspension over 450 times an hour during a typical trail ride.
• As bumps are detected, Live Valve switches to the open mode in 3 milliseconds. This is 100 times faster than the blink of an eye!
• If the accelerometer detects zero gravity (freefall) for longer than 25 milliseconds (or 0.025 seconds), such as during a jump or drop, the suspension automatically opens to allow the next impact.
• The technology behind Live Valve is a combination of two traditional damping circuits with an electronic valve.
Available Platforms
XC, Trail and All Mountain are all riding styles where pedaling efficiency is highly relevant, and are the first platforms to receive Live Valve technology. Cutting edge innovation and performance do add cost, and on Live Valve equipped bikes the price increase over FOX factory suspension is similar to the additional cost of electronic shifting compared to mechanical shifting.
Wires and Compatibilty
Our engineers experimented with wireless solutions but the latency in information transmission speed meant delays in communication, affecting ride quality. Utilizing a wired system means Live Valve can communicate faster and more efficiently, preserving battery life and maintaining consistent transmission. With cable jacks located at the fork and rear suspension heads utilizing a 2 conductor design, the system is simple to unplug for fork removal, does not have a specific orientation (so there are no concerns regarding technological literacy), and allows for crash protection with quick disconnect.
The current external design for the Controller and Battery assist in frame compatibility across multiple manufacturers.
At it’s core, the system still features FOX suspension, with the tuneability and performance you have come to expect. But Live Valve takes setup a step further, allowing you to customize the on-trail feel with adjustable Bump Threshold. Set-it and forget-it, personalized.
Available for complete bikes now. Aftermarket kits available in November.
Live Valve by FOX: the future of suspension is here.
Focus on the ride, and let us take care of the rest. Lear more on the FOX Live Valve Microsite.
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Furthermore, this is the type of stuff that drives that oil market everyone hates here. This is consumerism at its finest. RANT over
Hey Fox...how about a coil sprung 36, or the humble Vanilla shock in metric sizes?
I'm not trying to sell you on the product. What I AM trying to say has two parts. 1st: it's incredibly ignorant and arrogant to suggest that you understand this product well enough to meaningfully criticize it based on a press release, when a team of people who are literally paid to be experts on suspension have spent years developing it. 2nd: you can't assess the ride quality of a product based on a thought experiment.
So if it's awful, then go demo it for a few hours and write an awful review. I look forward to trying it, and hope it lives up to its claims.
Show me where, specifically, in this press release, you are told you need this. It's just not there. There is no claim that Live Valve is necessary. It's a little bold of Fox to say that "the future is here" and such, but this is also a huge tech leap so they might not be wrong; time will tell. But no one is pressuring anyone on this. Fox is just making a case for why this is a better system than manually activated suspension. Which we should expect them to, and I honestly hope it is. Time will tell.
Also, you know that "fixing things that aren't broken" is generally referred to as "improving on existing technology", right? If you want to advocate that society is better off not trying to improve already good processes, be my guest (and good luck). Or, if you want to advocate that mountain biking would be better off without trying to improve existing products, then let's talk about that. But criticizing an innovative company for innovating.....surely you realize that's a Luddite attitude.
So @zsandstrom you are indeed correct that I shouldn't criticize the product based on this article. But that's not what I'm doing here. I merely pointed out that I don't expect to get along with suspension that changes character on the fly. What I did criticize about the article is the reference to the success the have with this in off-road cars. Though, again, this is indeed impressive it is still also more within their control. Even steering, throttle and braking input could be sensed and implemented in the model. The transfer of body weight of the passengers can be neglected. On a bicycle it is pretty much the other way around. Both rider weight and rider suspension (through legs and arms) are dominant. How the rider uses that leg suspension depends on how he/she expects the Fox suspension to behave. Again, it may be just me then but if I don't know what to expect from my suspension I'll probably end up fighting and compensating for it.
Edit (added to this post): Just to be clear (in case I weren't), I'm not one to claim the industry is forcing anything on me. Not boost, not big wheels, not DUB, not live valve. I just pointed out why I don't see it work for me. That said, I'm actually curious whether anyone has experience with the Magura e-lect damper in fork or shock? It is a more binary version (locked or open) of what we see here, merely based on the tilt angle of the bike (so you calibrate at what upwards pitch the suspension locks). There is a freefall sensor too, just like we see here so it opens to absorb a landing. I never considered it because I never need lockout but I was curious whether people could adapt to it.
First, some info on anti-squat (more for others than for you, Luke), then thoughts on Live Valve.
It's unfortunate there's so much misunderstanding about anti-squat and pedal kickback. If the chain directly connects the chainring and cassette (i.e. no idler), then kickback and anti-squat are a fixed ratio for a given rider in a given gear combination. Whether it's a Switch Infinity, dw*link, Horst, single pivot, etc., if the bike has, for example, 125% anti-squat at that point in the travel, then the kickback at that point is the same for any system. Differences between different linkage types are more about the designer's preference (ex. the chosen level of anti-squat at that point in the travel) than the linkage type.
That said, some systems offer more control of how the anti-squat curve changes throughout the travel. Switch Infinity and twin-short-link design can (but don't always) create a region of fairly consistent anti-squat over the range of travel in which a rider is likely to be pedaling (no one is pedaling at bottom-out, for example!), then rapidly diminish the anti-squat beyond the pedaling zone to minimize total kickback. The counter argument is that spring force is increasing deeper in the travel, so maybe anti-squat should diminish in proportion to increasing spring force, creating a consistent total force. It's a complex issue!
Having established that anti-squat inherently creates kickback, I agree with you, Luke, that a system like Live Valve could allow me to create a bike with the desired level of pedaling stability and less kickback.
My favourite feature is the cost: $2000 extra for a marginal gain makes it a lot easier for me to sell bikes that offer a massive performance improvement for about $1000 extra!
I don't know if the people posting the "TAKE MY MONEY" comments (which I've been noticing), or those who actively/outright defend the high/increasing prices, are stupid rich, just plain stupid, or company shills?
I witnessed the exact same nonsense play out on PC tech forums over the last 8 - 10 years and as a result the cost of everything PC related SKY ROCKETED! Needless to say I left PCs behind.
This system is utilised from an application for a vehicle that isn't affected by the riders body movements. I'm sure FOX knows what they're doing, but the industry has been here before...
New innovations have new problems and risks. I don't believe this is a good idea...
My opinion, but I hope its not without validation.
Fox Specialized design to be a no-brainer.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=2e8-XsJ18MA
A hydro - pneumatic system like what Citroen came up with would be interesting too!
Both of those 'ideas' are prolly too heavy for bicycles...
I am confident this works and people wont have a concept of how well it works until they get a chance to ride one.
I think it would be pretty cool if they could integrate the shockwiz/quart system into this for an added benefit.
First to market=worst to market.
flowmountainbike.com/tests/long-term-test-lapierre-zesty-am-729-with-ei-shock
?'s:
ELECTRONIC & SHOCK WARRANTY & HOW LONG
MAINTENANCE COST & IS IT FIELD SERVICEABLE
PARTS & COST
It would be an honor if someone from Fox can respond to my inquiry.
Thank you so much!
Let's have a shootout!
Trek Re:Activ Thru-Shaft .VS. Specialized Brain .VS. Fox Live Valve.