French Government Introduces €30k Fine for eMTB Tuning

Mar 12, 2020
by James Smurthwaite  

The French government has announced that rider who tune their ebikes above the legislated speeds can face a €30k fine. For eMTBs, that means that speeds must be kept at a 25km/h limit.

The law came in as Highway Code provision L317-1 was adjusted last week to include ebikes. On top of the hefty fine, the perpetrator will receive 3 points on their license, the vehicle will be confiscated until it has been returned to normal working order and they could even face a year in jail.

There are also new regulations for professionals working in the eMTB industry too. L317-5 covers manufacturers, importers and those who rent or sell ebikes and threatens punishment of €30,000 or 2 years in prison for anyone found to be breaking the EU limits.

eMTB tuning has become a hot issue in Europe recently after a man in London hit and killed a woman crossing the road on an ebike that was capable of going 30mph (48km/h) but was cleared of all charges. Industry associations in Spain and Germany have also called for stronger action to be taken on users of tuned ebikes.

Previously it was seen as pretty easy to tune an ebike with kits available for sale just a quick Google search away. However, Bosch have begun to take action and introduced an anti-tuning system to its 2020 models. Claus Fleischer, Bosch CEO told Bike.eu: "The new system developed by Bosch engineers is using a sensor to detect whether the e-bike’s drive has been tuned. In that case, the e-bike’s computer will turn in an emergency mode. An error code will show on the display indicating the manipulation and the electric support will be reduced.” If the error state is reached 3 times, riders will have to take their bike to a Bosch dealership to be diagnosed.


230 Comments

  • 176 13
 good
  • 31 7
 agreed
  • 142 21
 Yep. About bloody time! I hope it becomes more severe in the UK soon too.

As someone that works in a shop, I'm so tired of eebers coming in with issues that have been created because of chipping/tuning. And because there's no concrete way of proving it, more often than not we have to suck it up.

Most riders of proper bikes understand that sometimes the bike will go wrong and it's almost always down to wear and tear of just the way they're riding. The vast majority of eebers are folk getting back into riding and generally have no mechanical sympathy, do no basic maintenance (cleaning/lubing), so when the bike goes wrong they come in screaming bloody murder and demanding everything under warranty.

And after the shitty weather we've had all winter my local loop is destroyed because they can keep lugging their way through it. Earn your turns you C-units
  • 23 1
 So that’s what we’re calling them!!
  • 19 10
 Hell yeah! Hopefully Scandinavia takes our green thumb from our arse and follows. 25 km/h in the hands of big part of populace is dangerous enough. The problem is more complex, there's no Police to execute it.
  • 4 4
 @timbud: These are two relevant but different issues. I think the fine is for keeping it safe on the trails, keeping speeds in check. It probably also helps the industry as it may increase acceptance. Much of the worries about e-bikes (at least here on PB) seems to stem from the expectation that many people would remove the limiter from their bikes so that may be lessened if doing so would be heavily reprimanded.

People breaking their equipment because of these modifications isn't good for your business nor is it good for the motor manufacturers. It is never good for your reputation when your stuff breaks. Mechanics and their own service centers are wasting time figuring out what's wrong when the customer plainly refused to admit they messed with the equipment. So for Bosch to be able to simply read that out from the software saves them a huge amount of time and hassle. And they attract the good customers and repel the bad ones.

As for the different mentality, I honestly don't know because I don't really know anyone riding an eMTB. However I can imagine it to be true. Back in the days you were prepared that stuff would break. And you knew how to maintain and fix stuff. The beauty of a bike is that it is all quite transparent. You can see what's going on and improvise a solution. So that may have attracted an audience with a DIY mentality. And also an audience that accepts "ok, I had fun, messed up, I'm going to deal with it". With electronics, we now have more black boxes. At least I wouldn't know how to work on a motor, AXS, Di2 etc if it doesn't perform. So at least for now that's keeping me away from such systems. It is probably great when it works and I'd feel stupid when it doesn't. I think to adopt such systems requires a different mindset. To rely on that it works and when it doesn't, rely on others to fix that for you. So yeah, I suppose that attracts an audience with a certain mindset that might clash with the "DIY" audience. I wouldn't say this goes for all of them. I can imagine those who don't mess with the electronics of their e-bike and follow your recommendations about cleaning and lubing simply keep riding and you just end up seeing them less. So that may of course colour the image you got from your emtb audience.

@WAKIdesigns: You are no longer qualified to say anything about Scandinavia, sorry. What's the situation like in Fiji?
  • 42 10
 @vinay: 3 new cases of Waki. Everybody’s quarantined
  • 1 0
 @vinay: The Bosch system does not reduce it, unfortunately. People just work around it.
  • 23 7
 @vinay: Also there should be a clear fine for city bikes as well for all E-bikes! If you want to ride your Turbo above 25km/h, get the Moto license and pay the fkng insurance. It's not like you are short on cash if you own one...
  • 10 24
flag e-p (Mar 12, 2020 at 3:50) (Below Threshold)
 @timbud: such a narrow minded viewpoint. You can outperform an ebike easily and they provide no actual performance gain on steep and technical descents. What 'shop' do you work at for reference as the shop owners and mechanics I know openly embrace ebikes and have no issues with maintaining them.
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Agreed. Was in Manhattan in the fall. Lots of delivery ebikes flying in the bicycle lane. Waiting for that to go bad.
  • 16 0
 @e-p: I think you misunderstand me dude.
I have no issues working on ebikes... My objection is with a minority of owners who chip/tune them and then come into the shop with issues directly caused by mods they have done. They always bullshit that they haven't just like the classic JRA warranty claims. We're not stupid, just be honest with us and then its much easier to help 'you' out.
  • 6 1
 I see the angry lot are back !
  • 2 21
flag fartymarty (Mar 12, 2020 at 5:26) (Below Threshold)
 Why not just licence all of them not just the modified one. I wouldn't really have an issue licencing pedal bikes as well if you want to ride it on the road.
  • 8 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I think Tuned E-bikes should be considered mopeds. In the US you don't need a special license as long as the Moped is under a special power. The same should be considered for E-bikes.
  • 23 6
 @timbud: In our local area it was Strava that started the rot. Previously semi-secret trails that have been around since the 90s and that only locals knew about are now rutted out and ruined through over use. I used to be able to go on a ride and maybe see one other rider on a Saturday or Sunday. Now the forest is full of enduro bros riding around in huge groups. This kind of growth just isn't sustainable in forests where the FC currently turn a blind eye to unsanctioned trails. Ebikes are just going to be the straw that breaks the camels back.
  • 5 2
 @rsbromley: I’m with you on that
  • 3 2
 @timbud: hi, what sort of issues do you chipping/tuning causing? Also, how can you be sure of the cause?
  • 13 0
 @rsbromley: I think all these rider tourism YouTube videos have a lot to answer for, never see any of these guys putting a spade in where I ride and they show everyone where the trails are. This combined with Strava/Trailforks are destroying all the good trails that a very small number of people have been sacrificing their time to build and maintain.
  • 3 4
 @e-p: I get your point but all these good riders from those #inspired videos have put tons of trail work where they live otherwise they wouldn’t be good riders.
  • 6 1
 But still no speed restrictors on motor vehicles?
  • 4 0
 @e-p: Totally agree. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one for building whole trails, I just don’t have the vision. But, I used to often take tools and cut back trails in summer, clear fallen logs, and repair sections, sometimes open an old and neglected section. Nowadays I can’t be bothered putting in my time to try and keep up with the damage.
  • 3 1
 @PinkyScar: @PinkyScar: Pretty sure we have speed limits on cars here in Canada. And Fines for speeding.

The big difference is cars also have insurance to pay for their stupid mistakes. Bicycles and with them speed limited ebikes do not and are not required to.

So if you want to go over 32 kph here in BC you are considered a motorcycle and must have insurance/turnsignals etc...just like other road users.
  • 3 3
 @timbud: Maybe send these people to a different shop, there will be many glad of the work.
  • 11 1
 @PinkyScar: that's right.

More then 25km/h assist on e-bike is bad.

Cam Zink driving a Porsche like a penis with ears is ok.
  • 8 5
 @onemind123: Thank God he didn't drive a dual motor Tesla, he'd be much faster and it would provide the argument against electric motors. All these Diesel truck and muscle car owners would go: E-motors should be banned, they are too fast! (in Europe same would go for Dave in M3 and Habib in CLS AMG - angry Habib being interviewed getting out of his Merc, journalist getting blown off by the smell of cheap cologne)
  • 7 1
 @PinkyScar: So, true. Speed restrictions on ebikes, but no speed restrictions on cars. I think it is a knee jerk reaction to one incident. From the Marin, Ca playbook.
  • 2 2
 @PinkyScar: Very good point.
If it's €30K for derestricting a 40 lb e-bike to go over 25 km/h (when a weak roadie can easily average 30 km/h) why is it only a few hundred € (I'm assuming, I don't know what French speeding fines are like) to speed on a 4-500 lb motorbike or a several thousand lb car.

Also, what happens to the poor cyclist that puts 2.3 tires on their e-bike that was calibrated for 2.1 tires and gets radared going 26 or 27 by the Gendarmes?

It sounds like a fine that wouldn't pass a challenge in court.
  • 3 1
 @Surestick: Europe is not exactly lawyers heaven. Maybe Aside of Italy.
  • 5 2
 @fabwizard: I've been way over 32km/h on a non-e-bike. I guess it's electric motors that are dangerous?
  • 2 0
 @Surestick: imo it’s all a load of baloney , this laws been about for a while now . Has anyone been prosecuted yet ?
  • 2 0
 @Surestick: The laws in Canada were designed to differentiate a bicycle(not requiring insurance/licence etc...) and a motor vehicle ( which does require licence/insurance) in order to ride on the roads.

I have absolutely no problem with ebikes on the road. But if they go over 32 km they should have insurance and licence as per current laws.
  • 4 2
 What about skiing?
  • 3 0
 @jrocksdh: Usain Bolt runs at 27 km !
  • 3 0
 @fabwizard: So If someone rides a bike on the road over 32 km/h (which is easy on a road bike)?

I get what you're saying, there has to be a line between bicycles and motorbikes but I feel like if an average cyclist can exceed the e-bike limit it's probably a bit low.

A thirty thousand Euro fine is excessive when you consider the fines for speeding in a motor vehicle in France are orders of magnitude less (looks like it's 135 Euros if this article is to be believed www.insurance4carhire.com/blog/driving-guides/what-you-need-to-know-about-speeding-fines-in-europe) and that's in a vehicle that has a much greater chance of killing someone if the operator makes a mistake.
  • 1 0
 @Surestick: definitely the amount of the fine is ridiculous. Should be no different than unsafe automobile modification.

I would disagree that an average cyclist can maintain a speed of 32 km. Enthusiasts yes but not average.
  • 1 0
 @johnathanh: One of my local shops has an E-bike dedicated shop next to it.
  • 1 0
 @Surestick: its not about the speed. Its more about the illegal modification.

People have been getting fine for speeding on bikes for years. But since the advent of eebs speeding has been far for common and of those the majority will have been chipped/tuned.
  • 1 0
 Just wait until russians start making compatible control boards and firmware just like they did with john deere tractors, 80kph and burned coils...
  • 1 0
 @timbud:
Yes I agree.
If you're not gonna do your maintenance, you should be fined and thrown in jail.
One day you'll have REAL problems to worry about.
  • 1 0
 @YoKev: Perhaps one day you could actually learn to read.
My whole point has been about eebers causing issues on their bikes directly related to chipping, which they try to claim as a warranty issue and demand the fix for free.
  • 1 0
 @timbud: can't a mechanic see it is chipped?
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Only if the chip is still on. Most of them are just a little box zip-tied to the speed sensor, so they are super easy to remove before they come in. It's obvious to see when I bike has been chipped (for example when the bike is run through diagnosis the average speed is very low) but hard to prove unless there are red hands.
Some of our customers are totally upfront about it and understand the warranty consequences, but they're also the ones who are more likely to get their hands dirty when it comes to maintenance.
  • 63 3
 I miss the times when tuning a bike meant getting new suspension, new wheels and becoming fit and strong.
  • 14 1
 It still exists
  • 7 0
 It will only exist if you keep it alive bro
  • 1 2
 Um never.
  • 1 0
 Suspension? What it is this, Pinkbike?
  • 22 6
 Bosch supplied the cheat code to VW for the TDI, along with all other diesel manufacturers, and informed them that the cheat code was for testing purposes, absolving themselves of wrongdoing. Expect an ebike cheat code from Bosch, that is for off-road purposes only.
  • 3 2
 Yea right, or not. You are Comparing involvement with the Vag group emissions scandal to supplying codes so people on bikes can have moar funs and then end up involved in another scandal when someone is killed by a de-restricted e-bike?

Of course they won’t, what’s the point.
  • 3 1
 Bosch gave the cheatcode away, the car industry developed it and sold the cars. So yes, Bosch was involved but the manufacturers were the main cheaters.
  • 1 0
 @fiatpolski: no, Bosch was deeply involved. The cheat code thing is not as trivial as it may sound.
  • 29 19
 25 kph is a dumb limit if you commute in a flat-ish city (like I do): motor cuts on/off all the time, sometime when you least want it (handling traffic, etc). Particularly annoying when towing a trailer full of kids.

I think the 32 kph limit in the US makes a lot more sense.
  • 10 4
 The fine was for eMTB, wasn't it?

On the road in Europe you've got two different limits. 25km/h for bikes allowed to go everywhere regular bikes are allowed to go. And 45km/h for faster e-bikes but these can't go everywhere (typically not places where mopeds can't go either). For commuting of course that's good enough. If you're in such a rush that you need to exceed 25km/h and don't want to do so under your own power, you could just as well stick to the bigger roads. As for pulling a trailer full of kids though, double check what it says in the trailer manual. I doubt the trailer is allowed to be pulled faster than 25km/h. So claiming the 25km/h limit is dumb seems to be pot and kettle matter.
  • 15 2
 Man alive. People have been commuting by bike for decades with no issues. They just got on with it.

I'd suggest you try and work with the motor a bit more. If you try to ride at its limit everywhere you'll experience much more annoying cut outs. Try riding according to the conditions... if you're in traffic I'd be more worried about that than trying to be a 25/32kph.

And if you're towing kids surely their safety is paramount, not your need to be going at top speed.... unless you're Danny Mac
  • 20 3
 You`re totally right. 32/33kph is actually the optimum speed for an e-bike in an urban environment, many serious studies confirm it. 25kph is too slow and put the riders`life more in danger than at a higher speed because bikes and cars are not hamonized together at 25.
Working into bicycle for years, I`ve often heard that EU would probably apply the 30kph limitation instead of the 25, but years have passed and nothing happened. It`s pityful.
What is pityful and stupid as well is the fact of banning 30/35/35/40/45kph e-bikes just because of a lethal accident once or twice sometimes. In this case, governments have to ban motorbikes, cars, mopeds, scooters, swimming-pools, planes, trains, skiing, paragliding..... and breathing as well, `cos breathing can be lethal, especially in this period!!!

Also: 25kph is too few. 45kph is too much: here these kinds of e-bikes are not allowed on cycling lanes but on normal roads, a moto helmet is compulsory, as well as an insurance and a registration plate.... but most byers and users of those bikes don`t respect the rules, and of course, when an accident happens, the whole community is stigmatized...
  • 4 0
 @softsteel: they're banning tuning/chipping. Not the speed.

It's similar if you tune/modify your car without declaring it on your insurance.
  • 6 0
 @timbud: The problem is many ebikes die spectacularly when the 25kmh limit kicks in. Then you're riding a fat bike in mud. It kills what should be a good alternative to cars. If you live a 10 or 15min ride away, it's fine. But I live an hours ride away from work. Commuting on an ebike with the speed sensor placed on the pedal instead of the wheel cuts thst down to 40mins, and my Avg speed still isn't above 32.

Also any bike will go over 25kmh, even if you've never ridden a bike before - at least once anyway.
  • 2 0
 @BorisBC35: Yep. Bosch is one of the worst for that spectacular cutout. Still not too hard to work around though.
  • 6 8
 @dirtologist, I would agree with you of there was an executable speed limit within cities but there’s no way to do it. 25 km/h is a lot for people who cannot handle a bike. And 99% of folks in my town can’t. I gladly welcome such ban and fine not only for emtb but also for city bikes. If you want to ride 30-35, get a bloody road bike mate, OR stay on the road with cars. Pay bloody insurance whatever you want, just say off bike paths crossed by people, kids, often used by kods to cycle. Get the hell out.
  • 3 3
 Your riding a bicycle, then next second you want to transform to a motorcycle?
  • 2 0
 @softsteel: agreed , even on the trails 25kph is a pain , if you’ve made a mistake and loose speed and you gotta pedal like shit to make a gap and the limiter kicks in , it ain’t good ! On a sensible ride you would only need to go over the limit a few times anyway or maybe never . It’s just handy if you need it !
  • 5 0
 @WAKIdesigns: ``25 km/h is a lot for people who cannot handle a bike. And 99% of folks in my town can’t.``
-> Who can do more can do less, question of modulation and ressources, and it helps. And it`s not because you get a Posche that you drive at 200kph.

``If you want to ride 30-35, get a bloody road bike mate, OR stay on the road with cars.``
-> Everybody can`t or don`t ride road bikes for many reasons, and staying on the road with cars... well...

... sometimes I really think that your rectum is too close to your skull when I read such kind of ``thoughts``.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: That's cute you think NZ got dedicated cycle lanes, let alone bike paths ;-)

On the road with cars/buses/logging trucks is our reality here mate. Which is why slower is not necessarily safer.
  • 2 2
 @softsteel: except there are rather clear rules and ways to execute them for folks who drive Porsches (or 1.8 Volvo V70 from 2005) at 200kph. I don’t know how cycling culture looks in France but in Scandinavia, Denmark in particular cyclists are fkng a*sholes, so if they drove cars like they ride bicycles, getting anywhere would be impossible because roads would be littered with crashed cars and bodies. So please keep your thoughts off my brain and my rectum. At this moment with current speed limits for bicycles crossing a bike bath or just walking by it on cycling rush hour is a risky endeavor. I had my kids being almost ridden over on many occasions. Using ring bell is the first resort of a typical Scandinavian cyclist when facing potential collision, not brakes, and not handlebars. Perhaps you would talk differently if you’d see a blooded 3-4yr old after a stupid 25yr old chick rode into the stroller. a*sholes, fkng a*sholes. The most disrespectful and oblivious members of traffic. Keep your ebike on the street with cars if you want to ride above reasonable speed, and that speed for Scnadinavian cyclists is below 20kph. At least before they had no chance to ride faster. Every sort of cyclist should pay insurance because when they hit a car, yes they hit a car not car hitting them, it’s always drivers fault, because cyclist is a fkng planet saver by some awkward logic, especially if they ride some ridiculous cargo bike wider than a bike lane. I ride to work everyday since over 10 years I see sht.
  • 2 0
 @timbud: NZ traffic is probably different, I'm in a "regional centre", with no traffic jams, but no or little bike paths.

So we are in the traffic with cars that are going quite fast. My experience is that going slower often is not safer (I'm a pathetic MTBer, but been commuting for 25 odd years).

But real issue for me is those cut outs, which occur at that speed I'm basically always riding at, trailer or not.

You could say ditch the motor, but I'm pretty glad it's there for those headwind days.
  • 1 0
 @softsteel: My feeling is that those laws have been designed by folks that don't ride bikes, let alone eBikes.
  • 1 2
 @dirtologist: going slower not safer when cut offs are the issue?! Braking path gets longer the speed is... I don’t know how it’s in NZ but in Europe quite a few ebikes have foot brakes
  • 2 1
 @softsteel: Not sure which "serious studies" you speak about. If 32/33km/h is the optimum speed for an e-bike in an urban environment, then get one of those speed pedelecs that's limited at 45km/h and ride it at 33km/h. No one keeping you from doing that. But the bicycle lane is primarily for instances where the car lane is too dangerous. It is for people riding under own power. People of all ages, abilities, fitness, etc riding under various weather conditions (wet, wind, hot, etc). On a typical (unassisted) commuter bike people go between 15km/h and 30km/h. I don't constantly monitor my speed but in places they have these signs (initially intended for motorists) showing your speed. On my heavy steel commuter (N7 rear hub, dynamo front hub, racks, basket, bags, one kid) I travel between 20 and 25km/h. If I'm on my faster commuter (aluminum frame, N8 rear hub, dynamo front hub, 15kg bag, no passenger) I typically seem to hover between 25km/h and 30km/h for a 10km commute. The current assistance limit of 25km/h for e-bikes going where unassisted bikes can go seems just fine. If that puts them in more danger then there is more wrong because most unassisted commuters won't be able to reach 33km/h anyway. Raising the assistance level to 33km/h isn't going to make it any safer.

And again, there is no ban on riding faster than 25km/h at all. You just aren't getting assistance if you're on a bike designed to ride amidst unassisted cyclists. If you want to go faster, pedal faster. No one holding you back, only your own strength and fitness.

@WAKIdesigns : It definitely helps to see different perspectives. Obviously as kids before we had driver licences, we had no idea what motorists had to deal with so we just rode fast and squeezed our bikes in between wherever seemed fastest. Later I learned to drive a car and that opened my eyes to what cars can and can't do, what envelope they operate within. I actually got quite an elaborate driving lesson package because I felt learning to drive a car seemed to be the most scary thing. Because unlike everything I had done until then, it felt like it was the first thing where failure is not an option. Hitting a tree at 120km/h sure must feel different than hitting a tree on your bike at 30km/h. So I got a package that includes skidding, more technique and also a ride in a big truck, just to get a perspective of what it is like up there. So yeah, that helps. And obviously over here all motorists also understand what riding a bike is like, most understand what it is like to ride with a kid (on your own bike or guiding a little kid on a little bike through traffic). So they adapt. I feel that helps. Your description of Denmark surprises me. I thought the place was quite similar to what we have here (in The Netherlands). But even though cyclists also here will always be crossing red lights in general they ride such that they avoid affecting others. Now the new challenge actually happens to be that people seem to have trouble staying off their cellphones. Doesn't match well with me, who f*cking hates cellphones in pretty much all situations.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: You`re right, even ``serious studies``have to be rexaminated.
It`s probably not appliable to every cases, but a recent french study showed that the average speed for a car in a city is actually.... 11kph..... which is absolutely ridiculous and confirms that cars are the worst way of transport for urban purposes. Btw, bicycles are heading the study with an average speed of 19kph, better than everything else including buses and subways.
Nevertheless, when cars are in motion - sometimes they are, between 2 traffic lights, jams, and various incidents - the observed average speed is 32/33kph, even if cities are limited to whether 50kph, or 30kph in the city centers.

I`m not the scientist who made those studies but living in a little big city with lots of traffic and cars, I noticed that when you ride amongst cars, if you`re at 20/25kph, cars are tempted to overtake and they often do, risking many things for you, for them, for the others. I have no e-bike but a ``muscular``like they say now, and I mostly ride between 20 and 30kph. When I ride nearly 30kph, I actually noticed that cars stay behind be and are more patient let`s say. We are more in harmony, everything is more fluid and synchronized. Anxiety is lower, almost everybody finds it fine and reaches one`s goal in the best conditions, respectfully.

Then, once again, I`m not living in a perfect world, and probably things could be better with 70% less cars on the streets. But that`s a matter of mentalities... and politics, and we`re far from that paradise ;-)
  • 2 3
 @softsteel: your personal anecdotal experience what works for you is to be respected but vast majority of people can’t handle a bike at that speed, it’s like them having a 2005 V70 with shitty brakes and doing 100km/h on a narrow road in Alps, navigating around 10 tonne trucks

@vinay: next time you are in Copenhagen stand near the edge of a bike path... or when in Gothenburg, try cross the main street, Allén on rush hour. Car won’t kill you, two lanes of trams won’t kill you, car lane again won’t, but then you’ll hear ding! Ding! And if you won’t move a bike will hit you at whatever speed it was going 20 km/h. And you know what folks say? You’re on bike path, it’s your fault. If some pedestrian bumps into you on the pavement they will say sorry, if a car will brake in front of you as you are passing the street on red light, they won’t horn. But a cyclist will always tell you to get the hell out of the way if you happen to cross a bike path in front of them. Maybe ride into you.
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: You could have noticed that the topic of this article is about e-bike legislation - at 25-30kph or more - not about ``anecdotic people`` who ride a normal bike between 20 and 30kph. Moreover, most e-bike are now quite well equiped concerning brakes, and even if they don`t have a pair of Saint, braking in a city at 30kph is not a problem for anyone, even with a simple pair of Tektro.
  • 2 0
 @softsteel: The actual article is about emtb, so not about e-bikes in commuting. However, the thread we're responding to here is about someone who claims his pedals assist is "dumb" for not assisting him beyond 25km/h when he's riding with a trailer with kids in traffic. He may have powerful brakes on the bike, but the trailer with kids doesn't. When he brakes hard, the trailer pushes the bike and reduces rear wheel pressure way more than you'd have when braking without a trailer. So the actual brake force may not even be that much of an issue. It is just that the two wheels under that trailer aren't braked and he's losing stability when braking hard. Yet he wants assistance to go beyond 30km/h because for some reason that would be safer.

As for these studies, I think it matters hugely where you're riding. The situations we have on bicycle lanes here (with most people, kids, elderly, heavy commuters etc riding unassisted), 25km/h is by no means to slow to be safe. Those conditions you're talking about where your amidst cars, if 25km/h is too slow then wouldn't it just be allowed to ride a fast e-bike there (limited to 45km/h)? Get one of those (if you can't reach the required speed unassisted) and you'd be fine. Having them capped at 45km/h doesn't necessarily imply people will ride 45km/h where 30km/h is the speed limit. Cars technically can go faster and they (mostly) contain themselves too.

Where it seems to go wrong in this discussion here is that some people view the e-bike as an alternative to a car. A fast e-bike is. But a regular e-bike (capped at 25km/h) is intended as an alternative to a regular bike. Intended to go the same places hence is designed to fit in. With all limitations that go with that. And yes, that also implies that for some, pedal assist doesn't bring any advantage. On my faster commuter (the one with the Nexus 8 speed hub) I easily exceed 25km/h under my own steam. Pedal assist does make sense of course would make sense if I want to arrive fresh. Also on the way back home if I immediately want to go out for an actual mountainbike session after work. Or if it is really windy and I can't go fast unassisted. Or if I'd live in a very hilly area where indeed some hills take me too long to climb.

So yeah basically there is a place for the fast e-bikes and there is a place for the regular ones. And of course there is enough room for riding unassisted. Choose wisely. Get the wrong category one and you may end up underwhelmed. Because you don't properly fit in your traffic or instead because you're not allowed to ride the beautiful mellow paths that you're allowed to ride on on your unassisted bike.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: lol I'm going to refute your personal anecdote with an even worse personal anecdote.
  • 1 0
 @softsteel: one little point. At least here in Vancouver if we are talking about commuter ebikes the majority are very cheap flexi riders with little or no brakes. They are unsafe at any speed.

If we are talking emountain bikes they seem to mostly be expensive and well made.
  • 2 0
 @dirtologist: that may be the case in Palmerston North but in Auckland and here in Christchurch there are loads of cycle lanes.

E-bikes are zooming past the normal bike riders in the cycle lanes so we don't need them to go any faster.
  • 1 1
 @BorisBC35: Both you and softsteel talk about situation where you ride a bike on the road. I am talking about bicycle paths. I said it very clear that I don’t mind ebikes going as fast as you want on roads. Please, buy yourself Stealth Bomber B52 with 5000W motor and go 100km/h, 3s to 100. I am more than fine with it.
  • 1 0
 @karatechris: Yeah in Palmy we're still limited to a bit of paint on the road in most places, unfortunately.

Guess I'm failing to put my point across, but if you try one of these ebikes one day (do it!), you'll probably get where I'm coming from.

Worth mentioning too that in NZ the limit is on output power, not speed. Although arguably no bike brand will tailor specifically for our tiny market.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns: totally with you on that. Here in DK ebikes are highly overrepresented in the traffic accident statistics,fatal accidents too,unfortunately. Especially old people can't handle the heavy bikes,and 25 is much faster than they would ride on a normal bicycle. Our insane government also legalised speed pedelecs (45) on normal bikepaths.
  • 2 0
 I love my 45km/h ecommuter. My 9km/180m commute is a mix of road and shared bike paths and it's just a matter of riding considerately regardless of the motive power. The ability to easily crank up to 45km/h is great when merging back into traffic, I think that aspect actually makes it safer than a conventional bike. A 25km/h limit would suck. I'd probably go back to a muscle bike if that was implemented here (I used to ride that at 30-40 anyway when conditions allowed).
  • 1 0
 @Otago: the rule should be simply no more than 25km/h outside of roads. If somebody wants to ride at 45 or even 60 it’s really fine. Just get an insurance so that when you hit a car out of your own fault, you pay. When it comes to regular bikes going up to 25-30 means you are fit and have basic bike handling skills. It weeds out folks who cannot handle a bike.
  • 1 0
 @lenniDK: I think it’s a combination of both bikes capabilities and the fact that Swedes and Danish cyclists feel they are above all laws and everyone else in the traffic. I am told it is same in Germany. I have seen 3 instances when cyclist rode into a pedestrian In a perfectly avoidable situation, it just requires pressing on brakes not on fkng ring bell. I have been ridden into twice when on foot. Imagine people did this on highways! Use horn instead of brakes
  • 1 0
 Ultimately you will do whatever you want, it’s free world. People drive over speed limit, break rules all the time, some drink and drive, they are in possession of drugs, take meth, smoke weed, watch rape videos, be my guest. Just that when I fkng see someone riding like an a*shole or stupid btch I give them some deep shit, I have done it no more than 5 times but I did and I have never felt bad about it. I felt bad about not doing it when I should. And they always have this dumb face expression half smiling, half angry, because they know they behaved like a piece of sht. They fkng know. If they cause an accident I’ll report Them to the Police and yeah I’ll mention motor trim if it happened on a cycling path. Stay on road with cars.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Totally agree with it.
I am commuting every single day of the year (30km a day), on roads and bicycle paths. I ride my muscular bike at +/- 30km/h on roads and it's OK with the traffic.
But, on bicycle paths, I have to deal with slower people (canal du midi, Toulouse), so I slow down.
And here come the problems when a*sholes are driving at more than 25km/h. There are of course all the roadies who think they train for the tour de France. But you also have 2 kinds of e-commuter:
1/ the new one who drive like if they were on holiday, thinking they are the only ones and not checking what's going on around. I doubt they even know where the brakes are. Got hit by someone once.
2/ the f*cking ones who tune their bike and go 40-50km/h. They are basically bullets. Those ones deserve to go to jail.
  • 2 1
 @lecriquet: 40kmh is not a bullet. I regularly get passed on our cycle paths by naturally aspirated roadie pelotons doing 40kmh +. The trusty BBS02 eeb conversion can’t keep up with that.
  • 1 0
 @Marvinlerouge: we call it MAMIL, Middle Ages Man In Lycra and they are like driving on a highway and seeing a white Merc Or Audi closing in in the rear view mirror. You know it’s a dick head or Alotta Fagina with LV bag on passenger seat so you get weary and move out of the way hoping they will drive away quickly and hopefully die without offspring. But commuter bikes or some g@y electric vespa doing 40+ is like passing Fiat Multipla and suddenly watching an unprovoked road rage episode unfold.
  • 1 0
 @Marvinlerouge: it's not because there are missile on our cycle paths that 40kmh guys are not bullet. We all have to share a space where some people are going at 20kmh or less including grandmas, kids and casual people going to work. It's the same as doing mtb. There are places where you can go full gas and others where you have to be careful.
Peloton of roadies on cycle paths at high speed are a danger. Conversion kit can't do anything against that, I agree. Laws can, but that's another story.
But, the fat ass that cross me regularly at 50 kmh couldn't do it without a conversion kit. There are at least 3 converted bikes that have appeared since last year on my daily commuting.
  • 1 0
 @lecriquet: so on the trails this won’t be policed
  • 1 0
 @Matt115lamb: Well yeah, that's the worst part of it all. You not only have to deal with speeding weirdos on overclocked e-bikes but now they're being chased too by the police on MX bikes, sirens, laying ambush and spikestrips. Going out riding your bike just won't be quite the same.

Kidding aside, that may be what caused the silly high fine. To keep chip tuning at bay they need to introduce a certain risk. Risk is defined as the product of likelihood and consequence. As likelihood of getting caught isn't too high, they just increased the consequence.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: so I’m right tup
  • 2 0
 @vinay: @lecriquet @WAKIdesigns this is not about emtb. This is about all ebikes. The writer of this article did not do his job well and wrote the article wrong without referencing his source.
The law is very clear. Altering the function of a speed limiting device in ANY vehicle is forbidden and can lead to the 30K€ fine mentioned here. The vehicle can also be confiscated.

This law has existed for a while, and the only new thing is that ebikes are now included among the other vehicles.
  • 1 0
 @zede: Ah, so basically this isn't much news at all. Thanks for clearing that up.
  • 10 0
 This to me is a big problem because there is still no legal route to owning a capable low speed electric vehicle. Totally prevents the tech from being used in vehicles that would be good for average people and instead pigeon holes it in a sports/ cyclist market. This holds back the development of low speed electric vehicles as a whole and people will never be able to move away from fossil fuel unless usable economic options are aloud to present themselves. In my opinion laws, licensing and legislation should be created to accept as many electric vehicles as possible not fight them.
  • 4 0
 Yep, this is all correct. We could be in a place where cars can be banned in cities in favor of electric bikes and mopeds, leading to way less traffic, less noise, and less pollution, but shit like these regulations is holding that future back.
  • 2 0
 @phops: Seems crazy to me that everyone is arguing about fitting electric bikes in the existing bicycle space but absolutely no one is talking about fitting electric bikes and electric bike technology into the existing automotive infrastructure. ebikes and ebike technology has so much potential to everyone. Electric vehicles are a good thing.
  • 4 0
 You can absolutely have a low speed electric vehicle. It either has to go up to 25kph only or be tested, registered and insured to make sure it is safe for road use.
  • 3 0
 @Patrick9-32: Fair point but that does sound like a convoluted process with different laws and costs dependant on area with no guarantees. I actually built one that averages 50kmh and spoke to my insurance about it. The dude was like wow thats cool whats the vin number...? Oh yeah can't do that.
  • 2 0
 Likely all at the hands of Insurance company lobbyists.
  • 8 2
 So are we gonna restrict all gearing on bikes now? Cause this poor lady stepped out in front of the guy in the UK and he had no chance to avoid her. Same thing would've happened if he was riding that speed on a regular bike. (Which he shouldn't have done).

So now you gotta ban all bikes going over 25kph. Just so we can protect everyone equally.
  • 7 2
 The way the MTB industry is going, I've become more interested in motor sports these days. 'Regular' mtb are getting stupid expensive. I feel like the industry is keeping the prices of eMTB attainable for now to get people to transition over...and eventually wilk jack up prices.
This is just incentive to ride and maintain my current bike for as long as possible, and spend my money on my car + track days. No speed/power limits with cars or motorcycles!
  • 1 0
 I know bikes are expensive but car stuff is crazy! The guys I know talk six figures for show, drag, track cars.
  • 6 1
 Ebike prices are being kept low? Have you seen the prices?
  • 2 0
 @CircusMaximus: considering the complexity of the motor, battery, controls compared to the rest of the bike parts...I bet they will be charging much more in the future.
  • 6 2
 simple , tune the bollocks off them but if they do more thsn 25mph they have to be registerd and insured for road use and also a lolly stick in the spokes so you can hear them comming
  • 3 0
 I see that there are no comments in here from Germany yet ... Some of the worst offenders here ! I've had people on these monster eMTBs overtake me when I'm on my racing bike doing 30kph ! I don't really care about it on the road, but these people are causing stress on the trails where we don't need it at the moment. Funny thing is, you can spot them really easily ... they tend not to wear helmets ! Really wierd, that one.
  • 1 1
 We are EVIL!
  • 5 0
 Ebikers on trails with no helmets... Darwin keeps on winning.
  • 1 0
 @likehell: you sure are
  • 2 0
 @CircusMaximus: helmets are just roadie accessories anyway. Change my mind.
  • 7 1
 Put all your opinions about E-Bikes aside, I believe this is kinda off. 2 years in prison seems a bit excessive.
  • 4 3
 Said the guy from America.
  • 2 1
 @DJ-24: what does that mean?
  • 4 1
 @ajaypate1: I just thought it was ironic that someone from America which houses 25% of the world's prison population,and has the longest prison terms of any country found the 2 years to be excessive. No disrespect.
  • 2 3
 @DJ-24: to be fair your our country is much larger than yours and China just executes inmates it doesn’t want
  • 2 0
 Its up to 2 years in prison!
Not a blanket 2 years and thats it.
And its only that for shops or businesses that are selling/providing/fitting the mod.
  • 2 0
 @DJ-24: that’s kinda is ironic actually lol
  • 4 1
 Can we just call them MOTORCYCLES and regulate them accordingly?? It doesn’t have to be a tuned up super bike to be called a motorcycle. Bicycle+motor=Motorcycle. Why is this controversial? They aren’t human powered vehicles regardless of the amount of “assistance” provided. You can and do have different classes of motorized vehicles, and they can and should be regulated accordingly. A moped is hardly a Ducati I get that. But trails that say “no motorized vehicle access” should include bicycles that have motors for f—k’s sakes! Same with street bike lanes. I’m not saying that this type of ride isn’t fun. (I’m sure it is) I’m not saying that they shouldn’t exist. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be ridden on trails ever. But the trails need to designated for this type of vehicle. Pretending it’s just a different MTB is plain fallacy and I’m disgusted by it.
  • 6 2
 'On top of the hefty fine, the perpetrator will receive 3 points on their license...', Err what licence?
Do you need a licence to ride a bicycle in France??
  • 3 0
 car licence if you own one.
  • 4 0
 Fun fact (I am not an expert, this may not be a fact): you can get points on your drivers license while operating any vehicle on the road, whether or not you need a drivers license to operate that vehicle. Drunk cycling, reckless tractoring, unsafe use of a bulldozer, the possibilities are endless.
  • 3 1
 Ridiculous how much higher the fines for biking are than fines for driving. why are bikers being penalized for one incident when drivers cause thousands of times more incidents. $30K for tuning a bike to go a speed you can pedal on a normal bike, vs only about $150 for speeding to a similar level in a car! This is bull shit!
  • 2 0
 To add to the whole idiocy in the world, now this... It's amazing how fast the herd goes to compliance over atupid human behaviors and accidents... Eventually all cars, motorcycles, guns, your food, your life will be controled... Limited... by lack of common sense and responsability of some small population...
  • 11 6
 simply stay with real bike instead of ebike/motorbike
  • 2 10
flag hitarpotar (Mar 12, 2020 at 2:30) (Below Threshold)
 why? So that you can ride less???
  • 3 1
 @hitarpotar: you have been indoctrinated, I see.
  • 2 3
 @CircusMaximus: no but for me 2 wheels and a motor means motorbike this is only my opinion.
  • 2 1
 @retrobobi: a motorbike doesn't need you to pedal in order to move, an e-bike does! Smile
  • 2 2
 @CircusMaximus: don't you find it good to be able to ride more?
  • 3 1
 @hitarpotar: Unfortunately, the need to pedal is quite often modified before they leave the showroom floor or non existent. You can watch most of the ebikes around here magically ride away from a stop with the riders feet not even on the pedals.
  • 2 0
 @hitarpotar: I hear you can ride even further on a motorcycle.
  • 1 1
 @fabwizard: first time reading about this. If it’s the Paradox Kinetics e-bike kit, then i agree you can move without pedaling. But a normal off-the-shelf e-bike - never seen or heard about not pedaling.
  • 1 1
 @JeremiahC: imagine what the range would be if you put another 2 wheels and a roof, switch from handlebar to steering wheel, instal a chair in it, and switch from electricity to diesel. Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @hitarpotar: Vancouver is flooded with cheap imported commuter ebikes. And the sellers help the customers override all the limiters before they leave the showroom.
  • 7 2
 Solution... Buy a scooter... Buy a bicycle... Costs less... Problem solved
  • 10 9
 What a stupid law. I fully understand if they want to keep unregulated ebikes off trails and whatnot and I fully support absolutely huge fines for those caught breaking those rules. For people who want to take this new ebike technology and fiddle around with it to hop it up for on-road use or to experiment or for any other reason, this law is completely stupid. Additionally, I regularly go faster than 32 kph on a plain mountain bike, so those speed limits are also pretty dumb.
  • 5 1
 I dont ride E bikes but putting restrictions is stupid. I'm guilty of blasting my session down a trail or tucking on my road bike down a huge hill. Once you start restricting where does it stop.
  • 3 2
 Agreed. 35+mph is typical on Utah trails and easily 45/50+ when going down canyon roads. If I am crossing a road, I'm looking for anything coming down the road that I don't want to be hit by, not just a car. Hopefully restrictions stop in France.
  • 4 1
 @Karpiel073: You, me, or another experienced rider going 30+ mph is one thing. Someone who hasn't ridden in a decade deciding they want to get back into riding through an ebike and being able to go that fast with 0 handling skills is quite another.

25 km/h is plenty for commuting in a congested city/in bike lanes, which is where most ebikes are being used. 32 is a little more reasonable imo, but in places like Amsterdam, Copenhagen or other cities with huge parts of the population commuting in crowded bike lanes, 25 is fine.
  • 2 0
 @Explodo - this is highway code. In Europe, ebikes are all over the urban landscape for transportation, and they're part of the regular traffic picture. So take a look at what else they have there - you have motorized bikes (yep, with a two stroke, basically slow mini-bikes) that by law are limited to 25km/h, require licensing for the rider, registration, and insurance. The bike industry made a big deal about how e-bikes were really just regular bikes, and they successfully got the regulators to carve out a niche for them that's allowing use at basically the same spec except the requirement of no throttle and pedal assist only, and waived all the regs and fees. That's a big deal, and a huge part of why they were able to catch on so quickly.

I think 25km/h is a bit low - I think our US limit for class 1 bikes of 32 km/h is more appropriate. That's still quite a bit faster than the other (non-assisted) bikes on the bike path, but it's pretty close to in-town traffic speeds (so it's not quite as suicidal getting onto a road). Pretty reasonable compromise.

As for off-road use - the US, that's all up to the landowner/manager. But a lot of those will be looking at what's legal in traffic to have some sort of guidance to prevent the mayhem. The speed limit, btw, is not for the bike itself - it's for when the assist cuts out. Yes, you regularly go faster than 20mph on your non-assisted MTB, as do I and most people - but we do it with gravity assist. An eMTB will be just as fast on the downhill (if not faster, being heavier), it's just that the motor won't assist anymore. Given that most gravity trails have tons of braking bumps, I don't think anybody's going to miss that assist on the descents...
  • 2 2
 @Explodo: You ``regularly go faster than 32 kph on a plain mountain bike``.. except that in the wilderness you cross nobody on your way dickhead. Question of context. Everyone has got a brain, what don`t you use yours?
  • 2 2
 @softsteel: Wow...You're an a*shole. I guess you haven't heard that mountain bikes can ALSO be used in non-wilderness areas. For example, I ride to the trails, not just on them.

I'll just assume you're angry about your limp dick. No hard feelings.
  • 1 1
 @g-42: Thank you for this reasonable explanation of the politics behind the decision. It certainly puts it in a light that makes sense, even though I still find it to be a fairly restrictive limitation.

Do you know if there's a way for riders to register their bikes as class 2(or whatever their classification would be) so that they can exceed that meager limit without fear of fines?
  • 1 1
 @softsteel: Terribly sorry, I should have been more polite in the face of your strangely angry attacks.
  • 3 0
 Well, it's in France, nobody will never get any fine. Ask the guys that wheely 450crf, 250yz or 350banshee in my street, near a school and a bus stop.
  • 1 0
 In France, I cant believe mopeds us the middle double yellow line as their personal traffic lane, both ways in heavy moving traffic. Now sure how ebikes could make anything more dangerous in France
  • 2 0
 So you can tune your pedal bike's drivetrain, but not your e-bike's drivetrain? Everyone here loves upgrades, new stuff, bigger and better. Y'all foolish saying you don't want tuning to happen
  • 3 1
 "confiscated until it has been returned to normal working order" So how will it be returned to normal working order if it's confiscated?

Also, the people who do this should just step it up and get a real motorcycle!
  • 1 0
 I wondered the same thing. I then realized that I could just use my super powers.
  • 1 0
 What if they can legally ride a motorcycle? I've a full moto license, so What's the issue?
  • 2 1
 I personally own and love riding my emtb as well as regular mtb's...(30+ years riding) My ebike has one of the smallest batteries at 375w and in the lowest power eco mode I can get roughly 25 miles in mixed up/down terrain, which I feel is more than enough..However I feel absolutely NO one/bike should be going uphill at speeds even close or near 15-20mph, that is Absolutely Ridiculous, for that buy a Gawd dam KTM...I truly believe ebikes should not even have the option of a "trail" or "turbo" or "boost" mode, I feel the eco mode is more than enough power/help, anything beyond that is truly blurring the lines hard....
  • 1 0
 I'll probably get roasted for suggesting this, but wouldn't it be just as easy to allow people to have tuned bikes or bike off the showroom floor that can go faster than 25mph but if they are capable of this would be required to have a speedo? Then you would be expected to abide by any posted speed limit and could still have as much fun on trails as you'd like? I mean cars can do like 200kmh but I've never seen a 200kmh speed limit sign lol.
  • 1 0
 Well, I hit a young woman at around 25kp/h on my motorcycle. She was 20 or so meters out from a pedestrian crossing and I was lane splitting in the city to get to the intersection. She stepped out from in front of a parked cargo van and I had not time to react. Ironically, it was just outside a major hospital and there was an ambulance 2 cars behind who were my witnesses for when the police showed up.
She was ok but, pays to look and if one is to jay walk, then try to not do it from in front of a parked vehicle that obscures the traffics view of you.

It can happen, but here in Finland in the less populated parts, I think for commuting, 40kp/h assisted would be good. It is the speed limit they use for kids on mopeds / scooters and low capacity dirt bikes. Those bikes can use the road and they can use shared walking and cycling paths. Would be good to have an extra mode on the bike for street use. On the trail, not sure if it is such an issue but I think on flat transitions 32 kp/h like in the US, would be a little more sane.

I understand un-assisted cyclists in urban environments can be dicks to everything around them but that is mainly due to them not wanting the workout frequently getting up to their cruise speed. They prefer to accelerate once and not to have to do it again. Hence the f-you, get outta my way mentality. They are lazy. Putting them on assisted bikes might make them less assholish as the precious dears wouldn't have to sweat as much slowing to avoid pedestrians or other dangerous situations.

My personal rule of thumb is the smaller vehicle gets right of way and this is how I deal with pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, cars and trucks. The larger you are the more damage you do at speed. Be curtious and respectful of all users but more so look out for the smaller ones. On the trail, if I come across hikers, I will yield for them and or ask politely for them to yield to me. So it is.
  • 5 1
 What about the French lines?
  • 3 2
 Nobody would mind if the limit was 32 kmh like the US and NZ. As it is, it’s stupid and dangerous for emtb - the law is an ass.
A second best outcome - motor drag will need to be eliminated at the cut out point.
  • 1 0
 Snafu - delete
  • 3 2
 Nobody would mind so much if the limit was 32 kmh like the US and NZ - as it is the 25 kmh might be sensible for cobbled euro streets, but is stupid and dangerous for emtb. The law is clearly an ass.
  • 1 0
 CLICKBAIT title ???
it's not about eMTB, but about all electric devices, like e-scooters etc., driven by mindless unexperienced kids/people on pavements with speeds above >25km/h !!

bad it affects us as well ....
  • 1 1
 I really think the solution is for e-bikes to have tabs and plates, and the tabs can cover the cost of annual inspections. People would get around it by just removing the mods before inspections, but just like with vehicle emissions all the back and forth is such a hassle that most people just don’t bother breaking the rules.
  • 1 1
 People applauding MORE of a police State and More government regulation to "keep us all safe" make me sick.
Once the government gets a taste of that money from fines they'll come to rely on it and lower the limits and increase enforcement all the while telling you it's to "keep you safe."
When I'm in Manhattan the majority of bike vs pedestrian conflicts I see is because of the phone zombies with their heads buried. It's either morons on their phones, or tourist morons staring up at the buildings.
  • 12 13
 So, you're okay with the government imposing fines on E Bikes because you don't like E Bikes? I don't like this because yet again, it's the government over reaching. It just makes me wonder what's next? Perhaps something you do care about?? Something important to you or even something you need. A fine for for drinking beer that's too strong? A fine for driving too many kms in the day? A fine for consuming too much food the decide isn't best for you. Who knows. I for one think this is shite, e bike feelings aside.
  • 9 7
 Do you feel the same about tuning cars beyond the legal limits? Overriding safety measures on machines? Compliance with building regulations?
  • 2 0
 @FuzzyL: And yet on many parts of German Autobahns there is no speed limit. And one can drive legally 500kmh no problem. I don't know how it's right now implemented in France but Germany solved the problem of ebikes many years ago. Wanna ride more than 25 no problem. You'll get a plate and you need to buy insurance. The only thing I do t know is if it's possible to register chipped bike.
  • 8 1
 @goroncy: But that’s exactly the point, if you want to got faster than 25kph, you have to have a license plate and insurance.

Nobody who chips a bike will ever do that. So they just ride around at the speed they deem ok, uninsured.

Cam Zink got a shitstorm on here for crossing a few double yellow lines in his Porsche, so obviously people on here care about sticking to the rules very much, but with e-bikes, breaking them is ok?

I don’t know about your area, but around here the trails most frequented by ebikers look like a motocross race just happened already, there’s absolutely no need for even more power.
  • 1 0
 @FuzzyL: damn good argument. 100%
  • 4 1
 Will the French government attempt to regulate Loic's top speed next?!
  • 3 4
 This is so stupid. I will never live in the EU because one person makes a mistake and now everyone has to pay for it. They believe people aren't smart enough to make their own decisions so the govt has to play babysitter and take away the decision altogether. Zero freedom. If I bought an e-bike with my own money, I should have every right to mess around with it and tune it how I want. I will pay the price if I break it and I will accept the punishment individually if I accidentally hurt someone. Just like in any other accident
  • 5 0
 You’re joking, right?

What’s the fine for littering in CA, again?

To my experience, the U.S. do not have more “freedom” in any aspect whatsoever - with the exception of owning guns.
  • 1 1
 @FuzzyL: not 33k dollars.
  • 1 2
 @FuzzyL: yeah CA is ridiculous. We need to get bak to more freedom, you are right. Unfortunately Europe, especially the UK, is far worse. Just look at the laws. License for this, license for that.
  • 4 1
 You know if you accidentally hurt me, whatever punishment you get won’t give me my health/life back. I prefer reasonnable laws that reduce my chance of getting hurt/killed by a dickhead.
  • 1 5
flag onemanarmy Plus (Mar 12, 2020 at 20:04) (Below Threshold)
 @t1000: buy a bubble. Crawl in it. Go away.
  • 1 0
 Offroad riding can be fined from 400 to 4000 eur, so it is cheaper to ride your 2 stroke or an electric enduro bike on the trails.
  • 1 2
 If we can just acknowledge and accept the fact that, as a group, all cyclists are assholes on some level to others then we can all just get on with life. Seriously. Things won't always be the way you want them to be. If you can't adapt you get left behind.
  • 1 0
 I regularly do 70km/h when commuting home on my legal eMTB. But I do the same speed down that hill on my normal bike, it’s just a lot slower in the opposite direction.
  • 1 1
 I've been saying this sense the very beginning of e bikes it's only a meter of time before this gets worst and it starts shooting down trails. Ebikes will some be crankless and just become emoto's
  • 1 0
 What about if I have a full motorcycle license? I could ride a Super Blackbird if I wanted to - I mean, if my wife would let me.
  • 1 0
 Should of introduced £30 k fines for people riding a Boris bike in London when you have no clue of the Highway Code.
  • 4 3
 If you want to go faster get a motorcycle. Tuning your e bike is as cool as tuning your scooter.
  • 2 1
 just get a Segway and leave the riding up to people who prefer 100% human power; the way a bike should be ridden.
  • 2 0
 Why the hell would I buy a e-bike that doesnt go 70km/h... I hate rules
  • 1 0
 I am not sure....I think that drunk driving, drugs, murder and being a Muslim terrorist are also illegal there.........
  • 2 0
 Not in any way heavy handed
  • 35 34
 You should be fined €30k just for riding an e-bike!
  • 38 13
 You should be fined €30k just for being an idiot.
  • 1 2
 @raine2jz: for each instance of idiocy? ...like, an idiotic tweet ?
  • 2 6
flag hitarpotar (Mar 12, 2020 at 2:29) (Below Threshold)
 @raine2jz: this comment made my day! Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
  • 2 1
 @f00bar: @Waki would be screwed
  • 2 0
 *french shrugs*
  • 1 0
 God bless motors direct from China!
  • 1 0
 Man I can go like 50mph on a hill with my dj bike
  • 3 6
 Note to self don't buy a bosch bike. 25kmph isnt fast enough to be fun off road . All the best decents are much faster than that . And when that motor cuts out a at 25 your not going anywhere faster there so bloody heavy. Feels like the bike turns into a 90s dh bike on a flat all of a sudden.
  • 4 1
 I think you might have misunderstood how they work. The bikes are still perfectly capable of going faster than 25kmph. The motor just won’t provide any assistance after this. You can still pedal as fast as you like or in the case of dh roll as fast as you like
  • 1 0
 @randybadger:
Nope riden them. Power assist cuts off just as your get going and and the bike won't go any faster without riding of a cliff or having the legs off a Olympic roady. It's just a 25kg bike after that to pedal Zzzzz .
  • 1 0
 @markg1150:
My descent times don’t seem to have suffered for running an ebike. Still around my the same as my dh times and I’m reasonably fast.
  • 2 0
 @randybadger: not on flats. 15mph is so slow. It’s like hitting a brick wall trying to pedal through that range. Downhill it’s passive so yeah faster. But in the flats that limiter sucks. Riding to trail heads sucks.
  • 1 0
 @randybadger: I think once you get the setup dialled they're not really any slower. Flat pumpy trails perhaps aren't so great but not my cup of tea anyway.
I actually hate running mine with the motor on whilst descending so always turn it off. It saves battery for the climbs too which is a bonus.
  • 2 0
 @onemanarmy: yeah if you carry any pace 15.5 is a frustrating cut off. I feel if it just went 2-3mph more I would be at an acceptable trail speed. I can pedal through but i would prefer the support a little higher.
  • 3 0
 @randybadger: Yeah it's stupid. Having the 18 or 20mph cut off you see in the US is fine.

Honestly the real danger is the increase of people traveling up down trails at high rates of speed because climbing up down trails is fun now. And that's not really any different here. 15mph up a down is no safer than 20mph up a down. People just need to pay attention and start riding with bells more. Hikers need to take their freakin head phone off and riders need to look ahead.

If people use common sense the increase in danger really isn't much higher. Just don't be stupid.
  • 2 1
 Is that right? $30,000 fine?
  • 3 0
 no 30,000euro which equates to 33240.00 USD.
  • 4 1
 @enduroelite: Whew. Glad I don't live in the EU. Here in America, we have reasonable fines.


Like 10 years in prison for possessing a plant.
  • 4 3
 Gov't sucks. This is ridiculous.
  • 2 0
 Yup, motorcycles!
  • 2 1
 How about a fine for any organizer holding an ebike race?
  • 1 0
 Well there goes Bosch sales
  • 1 1
 LOL you get a fine and jail time for modifying a product YOU own. Leave it to the euros. Lame. go ahead, downvote
  • 1 1
 This is so unjust. Ever car owner with a car capable of exceeding the speed limits should then get a 60,000 fine.
  • 5 1
 those are electric motorcycles and require a license plate, driver's license, mandatory insurance, and are prohibited from forest trails, fire roads etc in most of the EU
  • 2 1
 @f00bar: And the law in France is intended to make sure it stays this way.
  • 3 5
 Not surprising. France is police state where they have a law against virtually everything. The last thing anyone needs is the government involvement in our sports.
  • 7 2
 What sport? This is about ebikes.
  • 1 2
 @FuzzyL: cycling
  • 2 1
 I approve
  • 2 2
 Hell yeah! Every country needs to implement this tup
  • 1 1
 I like to tune up eTurds with a sledge hammer.
  • 1 0
 Motorcycle hits woman*
  • 2 1
 Mooooooooooped
  • 1 0
 And so it begins....
  • 4 5
 Glad I'm not french then nor have a Bosch motor.
  • 5 1
 You see that Lady Justice picture at the top? She's blindfolded, she doesn't care about the flag next to your name. If you smell like cheese and she hears the sound of a electric motor spinning too high rpm for her liking, she's going to frantically wield that sword until she hears to crunchy sound of a baguette. She may say something along the lines of "sorry" if she hears the sound of a soggy teabag instead but it is too late by then. Better be safe than sorry bro. Don't do tuning, there are better things in life.
  • 1 2
 I agree and would ask that other countries adopt these regulations.
  • 1 0
 Same types that dont allow old cars to get new engines...but then spout off avout being green this that...buying new cars all the time.
  • 2 2
 Ridiculous.
  • 1 2
 Cool.
  • 4 6
 Glad this has happened.
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