17 Bikes From the Giant Toa Enduro - Crankworx Rotorua 2016

Mar 9, 2016
by Jay French  
Crankworx Rotorua 2016 Banner

As the sun came up over Rotorua and the Whakarewarewa Forest, we took to the trails to see what some of the pro’s were riding for the Giant Toa Enduro.

Darcy rides an Intense Tracer T275 on Fox and Schwalbe.
  Darcy Neniska rides an Intense Tracer T275 on Fox suspension, a full SRAM drivetrain and is rolling on the magical Schwalbe rubber combo of a Magic Mary front and a Hans Dampf rear.

Rae Rae rides a Lapierre Spicy on Rockshox with WTB tyres.
  Rae Morrison rides a stock Lapierre Spicy with a full livery of RockShox, SRAM and finished off with WTB tyres.

Scott Genius on Fox and Schwalbe tyres.
  Gus Michaels and his Scott Genius LT sporting a Fox 36 up front and a Cane Creek DB Air in the rear, and finished off with Schwalbe tyres.

Josh rides a Giant Reign on Rockshox and Schwalbe tyres.
  Josh Carlson's factory Giant Reign sports a full RockShox livery that interestingly includes a Vivid Coil shock, SRAM's alloy Rail 50 wheels (not the new carbon Roam 60's) and Schwalbe tyres, although unlike many of the others, opting for a faster rolling Rock Razor out back to accompany the Magic Mary up front. Check out the new Giant racing kit too... Are 100% getting into the apparel game?

Maxi rides a GHOST FRAMR10 on Fox with Schwalbe tyres.
  Maxi Dickerhoff rides a Ghost FRAMR10 with a Fox 36, a Cane Creek coil in the rear and with Schwalbe taking care of the tyres.

Mark is on a Transition running Rockshox and WTB tyres.
  Mark Dunlop's alloy Transition Patrol is running on a full RockShox set up with Hope Tech brakes and wheels, WTB tyres and check that Mudhugger front fender, just in case...

Phil is on a Propain Pro10 on Schwalbe.
  Dirt's very own loose cannon, Phil Atwill, is on an X-Fusion equipped Propain Pro10 with a Funn finishing kit and Schwalbe tyres.

Fraser rides a Norco Range on fox with Schwalbe tyres.
  Factory rider and flying Scotsman, Fraser McGlone, rides a Norco Range on full Fox with alloy Novotec wheels with Schwalbe tyres.

Harry rides a Norco Range on fox with Schwalbe tyres.
  Fraser's teammate, Harry Heath, is similarly also riding a Norco Range but has opted for the stiffer carbon Novotec rims and Magic Mary's, front and rear. The tart!

Rupert rides a Bergamont Encore on Manitou and Maxxis.
  Kiwi wildman, Rupert Chapman, rides a Bergamont Encore with a RockShox DebonAir shock out back, Manitou Mattoc forks and Maxxis tyres, opting for a super tacky High Roller front and a 3C in the rear to help alleviate drag and maximise grip.

Ed rides a Bergamont Encore on Manitou and Maxxis.
  Rupert's teammate and an individual who truly understands what the spirit of enduro actually means, Eddy Masters, is also on a Bergamont Encore on Manitou suspension and Maxxis tyres. But check out the tasty snack taped under the saddle and the unique water bottle set up... There's being 'enduro' and then there's this!

Matt rides a CUBE Stereo 160 on Fox and Schwalbe.
  Factory World Cup racer and the eventual winner, Matt Walker, rides a carbon Cube Stereo 160 on full Fox and Schwalbe, Magura brakes and what's that on the downtube? Enduro specific snacks of course!

Brook rides a GT Force on Fox and Schwalbe tyres.
  Think there's something in your nose mate? Brook 'the Bulldog' MacDonald rides a GT Force, full Shimano, full Fox with Schwalbe tyres and check out the Garmin on the top tube...

Sam rides a Norco Range on fox with Schwalbe tyres.
  Norco factory rider, Sam Blenkinsop, is on a Norco Range with Fox, RaceFace and Schwalbe tyres, front and rear. Something in his nose too.

Juliana on Fox with Maxxis Tyres.
  Annika Smail rides a Juliana on full Fox with Maxxis Tyres, ENVE wheels and a full SRAM drivetrain.

GT Sanction on Rockshox and Vittoria Tyres
  Rachel Throop's GT Sanction is rolling on a full RockShox and SRAM livery, Stan's wheels and Vittoria Tyres

GT Sanction on Rockshox and Maxxis tyres.
  Rachel's teammate and the eventual winner of the Toa Enduro, Anneke Beerten, was also on a fully SRAM'd up GT Sanction with Vittoria tyres.

MENTIONS: @FRNZ / @intensecyclesusa / @Lapierre-Bikes / @SCOTT-Sports / @GiantBicycle / @GhostBikes / @TransitionBikeCompany / @PROPAIN-Bicycles / @norcobicycles / @cubebikesofficial / @GTBicycles / @foxracingshox / @SramMedia / @shimano / @Maxxis / @schwalbe


  • 197 1
 My computer flagged this page for "Suggestive/Pornographic Imagery". Touche computer. Touche.
  • 28 90
flag vader-runner-bikes (Mar 9, 2016 at 12:17) (Below Threshold)
 well i believe your computer was correct in flagging this as pornographic material, bike porn that is
  • 134 3
 Cheers for clearing kris that up i was struggling a bit
  • 9 26
flag pinnityafairy (Mar 9, 2016 at 14:50) (Below Threshold)
 What there's "Suggestive/Pornographic Imagery" on the web. Who would of ever known.
  • 33 12
 Better yet, no 29ers or plus tires!
  • 18 0
 I blame Maxi Dickerhoff
  • 86 6
 Bike manufactures have to be thinking about putting a tube and tool holder on their enduro race bike models. I not a Specialized fan but big credit to them for the SWAT downtube.
  • 21 8
 Specialized gets a lot of hate for their prices, but one of the benefits of having expensive bikes and a big company is that they can actually afford to do things like have built in tool holders in their frames. That's much harder for smaller companies with less money.
  • 99 12
 Specialized doesn't get hate just because of prices. They get hate because
  • 17 11
 They get hate for a lot of reasons, and one of them is their prices.
  • 14 1
 @ryan83 because... why? You can't leave us hanging like that!
  • 23 8
 Mainly for their big list of law suite against rider owned companies and other ugly things they did like copying Stans patented designs etc. Nothing wrong with the bikes though, but I wouldnt personally support a company like that by buying their stuff.
  • 6 0
 @Mattin I wonder why Pinkbike dosent write about any of this...
  • 14 11
 Most people already have tool holders called jersey pockets but for some reason we need to build f' off big boxes in our down tubes instead #totallyendurbro
  • 16 21
flag samsq (Mar 9, 2016 at 14:14) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah cause you totally can fit a pump, tube and a multitool into a jersey.
  • 2 1
 Because the commenters do it for them...?
  • 2 0
 @Checkit because they don't want to lose advertising money
  • 18 9
 Why does most articles on Pinkbike get some comments about how bad Specialized are .We get it ,no one likes them no one must buy their products .In fact how do they survive ? I know they just sue everyone and copy people's designs ....Give it a rest.
  • 36 5
 I'm actually a fan of Specialized. They make a good products, are generally fairly priced, stand behind their warranties, and their bikes look cool and ride nice. They support the sport of cycling -- all disciplines. They're often on the cutting edge of development. I don't know enough or care enough to get all self-righteous about their lawsuits. If most of you were honest with yourselves, you'd admit none of that stuff affects you, either.
  • 13 2
 Think what you want about Specialized but their R&D pisses on everyone.
  • 2 0
 Ahem @checkit
  • 14 1
 I say I hate Specialized but I quietly like them. For me it's just that they are just a big company. I still have that mentality when I was a kid that any big company is a sell out, Burton for snowboards and Nikes for shoes. It's that mentality, 'hey I don't need your big fancy company, I can do just as well with this small one." I like supporting smaller companies. It's lame but that's just me. Peace everyone and keep riding!!
  • 2 0
 I managed to find a top tube bento box type bag at MEC that once rotated 90 degrees fitted perfectly in the base of my triangle on a 2013 stumpjumper. Can just squeeze in a tube, gas, tool, patch kit and spare link and still have room for the drink cage.
It is unfortunately branded towards woman graphic wise, but some sharpie hides the pink flower graphic pretty well!
I dont have a photo of it in place on me but here is the bag, www.polyvore.com/sherpani_ceili_bags/thing?id=134277130
It sits in the spot the guy has his tube in the very first photo....
It would be great if some products were more specifically designed for this purpose though.
  • 4 6
 I would prefer not to have a hole in my bike..... Specialized can keep their swat tube..
  • 7 4
 My recent Enduro (Carbon 650b) has been a mediocre experience and will be my last big S bike purchase. The non-grid stock tires were terrible and not fitting for a bike made for aggressive riding. The rear lasted 2 weeks before getting gashed on a rock.

The Cane Creek shock has blown out 2 times and I finally "upgraded" to a CBAIR CS to the tune of $100. Cane Creek has been great to work with but Specialized should be proactive and issue a recall. Few, if any riders has had an Enduro 650b with DBInline that didn't fail...and don't give me that "bad-batch" bullshit. It's a compatibility issue and Specialized should be held equally accountable.

My rear wheel with 1,000 miles on it has developed such unbalanced spoke tension that it has to be replaced. It does has a small couple dings in it but I've had Stan's crest XC wheels (yes...crest) with dings that held up better to abuse. They are Roval Fattie's and the thin spokes are designed for road bikes...not 165mm trail bikes (Jared Graves agrees...see his bike check a couple weeks back). The rear hub has a tolerance issue that results in constant creaking so rebuilding it is not appealing. Since I'm outside of warranty I'm looking at a $400 bill. Speaking of Roval...my wife's brand new Roval Control wheels broke numerous alloy nipples (he he) and they had to replace them with brass.

The dropper had to be rebuilt 10 months after owning it. I spent 5 of those injured but at least they covered that under warranty. It's now doing the same thing where it is losing air over the course of a week and again, out of warranty.

In summary...a big "meh" to my recent purchase.
  • 2 3
 @Checkit : they did, it just gets lost because they post so much news (don't get me wrong, that is a good thing Smile )

@SteelCityMTBer: because the things they did are too bad to "just get over with". We have a great friendly community where there's always good vibes between fellow cyclists and even competing rider owned companies their owners will have a beer together after a race or event. And then there's Specialized, the company known for having a big list of fellow cycling companies they've f*cked over big time. That attitude doesn't belong in our scene. Go become a soccer company if you want to do shady stuff like that.
  • 5 2
 @ryan83, a 1000 miles, 10 Months, gashed on a rock, dings on the rims, I think you need a Downhill bike man, that's just too much punishment for a 165mm sled.
  • 4 2
 @Narro2 no way man. An enduro bike should be able to withstand that abuse and much more over less than a year. It should be the epitome of a durable bike. Able to trail ride, race, and even go on DH runs/bike park terrain.

It is unacceptable if a very expensive enduro bike doesn't last even a year. I would be bummed just like @ryan83 is.
  • 1 0
 well the comment is written as if the bike received lots of abuse, out of the 10 months, 5 months the rider was injured, does that mean the bike rode 1000 miles in 5 months? that's a lot IMO. I do agree though that Spech tires are the best on terms of lasting.
  • 3 0
 @ryan83 I have the same bike and I love it but I have changed everything on it apart from the frame ,rear shock and brakes .All bikes we buy now are all fitted with basic parts.For instance I paid £4600 for 650b Enduro carbon 2015 and it came with Pike rc forks(basic),control tyres instead of the stronger grid(basic).sram r guide brakes(basic).roval rims and hubs (basic ) sramX01drive (basic).These parts are ok but not what you would expect on a bike of this price and it's not just Specialized its most bike manufacturers.Ive decided now that I will only ever by a new frame in future and put the parts on I want . I personally think bikes and parts are overpriced (even if they do look good and perform well)but it's our hobby and they know we will pay it
  • 2 0
 1000miles in ten months,
100 miles a month,
3.5 miles a day.......

thats errrr, not that much, really imho......

even if injured half the time, 7 mile a day........?

Thats a daily commute for some..
  • 1 0
 errrr... most daily commutes don't involve rock gardens or drops which require a 165mm suspension.
  • 1 0
 +1. On the road I can do about 33km in one hour (without wind on flat), but there are some trails (especially in muddy conditons) where my average speed won't seem to come above 12km/h. That's almost three times as much riding time for the same ammount of kilometres.
  • 1 0
 @Narro2 Enduro bikes are supposed to be designed for rough trails. I climb 1,500-3,000 feet per ride so a downhill bike isn't practical. If I was on an Epic your statement may make sense. But even taking the wheels and tires out of the equation the failing dropper and constant rear shock issues are inexcusable. @SteelCityMTBer hit the nail on the head though. Building a bike from the frame-out ensures you aren't left replacing second-rate, house brand stuff. My previous bike, a Santa-Cruz Bronson was just that and was flawless. Lesson learned.
  • 1 0
 @ryan83 yeah, I am actually doing the same for my next bike, purchase the frame and build from there.
  • 72 4
 Where are all the 27.5+ bikes? I thought they were the perfect blend of grip and rollability?
  • 10 54
flag samsq (Mar 9, 2016 at 12:19) (Below Threshold)
 Enduro is glorified xc, they need faster tires more than they need grip. Que the angry endurbros lol
  • 27 1
 Does that mean DH bros really need B+, or nobody? I'm actually not a fat tire hater, but I just find it funny when every company is offering these hot shit new boosty chunk bikes and racers don't seem too give one poop about it.
  • 9 35
flag samsq (Mar 9, 2016 at 12:36) (Below Threshold)
 My philosophy is if the race doesn't require a full face helmet to be safe, then it is suspect. Most of these guys are wearing half shells. Very suspect. The thing about racing is that you have to balance speed with safety and bike performance. Fatter tires mean you can corner and handle slicker surfaces better, but they slow you down. To the average rider who isn't trying to beat the clock every time they ride, having wider tires might mean having a more fun experience. But when milliseconds can make or break a race, sometimes you have to make sacrifices to win, like running narrower tires. And when you look at this particular race, where most of the competitors aren't even wearing a full face helmet, I would guess they don't need that much more grip.
  • 11 16
flag samsq (Mar 9, 2016 at 12:41) (Below Threshold)
 Also at the end of the day it really depends on where the race is. There are trails I've raced on where they were so smooth and straight I was almost bored, and there have been tracks where I was legitimately scared for my life (plattekill). If I could have run plus tires at platty, I would have in a heartbeat. Some of the other courses? Probably not. It's a balance of speed vs. grip, and whatever you think will help you win.
  • 20 5
 @jesseE haha exactly what i was thinking. I'm so over all this plus sized marketing hype. @samsq the hell are you talking about? most people don't wear full faces in enduro because they get hot ass f*ck when your riding up and who wants to carry two helmets? and just because you get scared riding without a full face doesn't mean they aren't riding fast lol it just means they aren't bitch lol also plus tires can't hold up to the speed these guys ride they would be folding tires over all the time unless they where pumped up to the max. these dudes are the fastest riders in the world, they know what they are doing.
  • 19 3
 Honestly fat tires corner like shit and wash too easily, for the average Joe that doesn't understand how to lean a bike over they might be better but overall they're shit
  • 9 2
 Plus is for the average Joe trail rider, not for racing. To make a tyre with a supportive enough structure that wouldn't become vague and roll at high speeds in demanding terrain of that size (2.8-3.0") would just add a load of weight and probably even compromise the grip of those lighter weight, more compliant tyres that are currently available.
  • 4 1
 @samsq I totally get what you're sayin. I don't race, but I can appreciate the balance between safety and speed needed to win races. I'm sure an F1 car is not neccessarily a comfortable ride. But, the way + sized is marketed there should be virtually no drawbacks, just mega grip with the most minimal weight penalty. I just think if that was the case then people racing the clock down would be all over a 2.8 tire, based purely on the marketing. I too agree that they don't corner well, and I ride a 29er hardtail!

I'm really just here to whine cause I'm bored.
  • 10 2
 My tiny 2.35 tires seem so... ummm.... tiny next to all those really big tires. I'm so embarrassed to ride the trails now that all these really big tires are around. I have to put a towel around my tiny tires or I will not feel adequate. Even the girls have bigger tires than me and there's no pun to that! Braaaaaaaap!
  • 16 2
 @JesseE I don't think I've heard any company pushing 27.5+ for racers. 27.5+ is aimed at people who don't race but want more grip, traction and controllability in most conditions. Which is a heck of a lot of people.
  • 2 0
 @wingguy sorry dude, fat fingers hit the wrong button. I'm with you, I don't think we'll ever see plus tyres on a race bike in elite level competition and nobody is trying to push them for that.
  • 8 0
 @thomdawson I think you meant FinGers+ hit the wrong keys.
  • 1 0
 @Trudeez lol, how'd I miss that one?!
  • 3 1
 @JesseE literally everything in the world is marketed that way. You don't list the negatives and downsides of your product, you just try to sell it. The only time advertisers have to say when you shouldn't buy something is when the government makes them, like with pharmaceutical and alcohol ads.

It's just marketing. Don't hate the player(s), hate the game.
  • 16 2
 Bike racers aren't on 27.5+ bikes for the same reason ski racers don't run 205s under foot. Certain products are made for racing, others for recreation. It doesn't mean one product is invalid. They just have different purposes.
  • 8 4
 @TheR nailed it. But this is pinkbike, where new things aren't allowed because we can't afford them.
  • 4 1
 So before 27+ were all recreation dudes riding substandard overly grippy tires while pros were running uber specific tires that were hard to handle outside of their intended condidtions? Ski racers aren't riding powder, so of course they don't want 205 under foot. I don't think it's a fair parallel. If anything, it applies better to xc racers pretty much run slicks and who ride trails that a lot of us would find boring and less technical, cause so much of that sport is about fitness as opposed gnar. DH guys are riding harder shit than your average joe so you think a tire size that promoted mega grip without much rolling resistance would be a benefit.

@samsq there was a time long ago when using the shit the pros used was what people would strive for. It was the ultimate way to legitimize a product, as everyone aspires to ride better, even if being a pro isn't even in their imagination. Now we have a whole new world of bikes that have no pro's giving one shit. It's just weird.

I don't have some deep hatred for new gear, it's fun and fat tires look cool. But seeing a whole new style of bike take the world by storm which has no backing by pro-riders just leaves me dubious. I actually think the category is cool for certain places and conditions, but bike companies are literally telling us the +size wheel is almost all good and not bad, and in the process introducing hubs standards that making buying just a new frame a pain in the ass. I just don't like it!
  • 5 2
 I had 26 plus in 2002 on my hardtail. Gazzolodi 3.0's and 2.7's on double track rims and double wide rims. We left them behind for a reason. Let the past stay in the past.
  • 2 2
 He had to go and drop the Gazzoldodi reference, haha. Those shitty things are legendary.

What's gonna happen to all these poor noobs who get their start on a plus bike? They're gonna have to sell'em when the get better and wanna ride sorta fast.
  • 1 2
 What Plus tires would you experts run?
  • 2 1
 They were bad ass at the time. So damn grippy! But rubber weight is rubber weight. The problem with fat bikes and plus bikes is the same as the reason why gazzoloddi tires didn't stand the test of time.
  • 2 3
 @makripper Gazas were 1679 grams and schwalbe nobby nic 27.5x3.0s are 910 g. That's almost half as heavy, and for a bigger sized wheel! Also modern 3.0 tires are much less knobby to improve rolling resistance.

@JesseE I thought riding was about having the most fun. Racing is about being fast, and that's why pro racers don't run plus sized tires.

Also the 2016 race season literally just started and plus tires haven't really been a big thing until this year, lets save the "racers don't use them" comments until it's 2017 and we actually know if they run them or not.
  • 2 2
 According to maxxis 27.5x2.4 dhr 2s are 900gs, which means that plus tire is only 10 grams lighter than the tires I already run. A downhill version of the tire would probably be heavier, but the point is the weight of plus tires is not significant.
  • 1 0
 I think you mean 105 the fattest powder ski is 140 (Nordica Ja loves if you don't believe me)
  • 1 0
 Pretty much, the top guys in this race are not going slow, granted it was a race for the best sprinter. Plus tyres are the new fat bikes are the new fixies
  • 1 1
 And the course wasn't very technical. I like the fixie analogy-fun over speed
  • 2 0
 Here are my $0.02. Coming from the handful of very experienced pro riders I follow around the trails. The grip is there, it's crazy in fact. Everyone is scared of a 3.0 tire that weighs 800-900 grams. They're just too thin, punctures and tears will be a real problem. And, nobody wants a 1500 gram dual ply 3.0 tire.
  • 1 0
 And you lose grip. Add more agressive knobs and the weight goes way up.
  • 2 0
 @samsq riding is absolutely about having fun, but lots of riders think having fun is racing themselves and generally pushing their own limits. MTB is not really a cruiser sport, if anything it's way more aggressive than ever. Buying a bike with built in limitations seems like a bummer. These tires are being put on top shelf stuff, and not being promoted as the more relaxed alternative. That's where my small beef lies, with the promotion of these new products as being on par with more traditional wheel/tire set ups, which are generally based on technology that has trickled down from race level gear.
  • 4 0
 @JesseE sure the DH racers want grip but they're also hitting every single berm (heck, maybe even the flat corners) hard enough to roll a plus tyre straight onto its sidewall. The percentage of amateur riders who push anywhere near those forces are tiny. Y'know what, the vast majority of riders aren't really that good - especially outside of the bike park bubble - and are on a totally different planet compared to pro racers.

So if you're a fast rider or you race and you don't want a plus tyre then that's totally fine. If it's not for you it's not for you. But letting pro racer requirements dictate the equipment available to Joe Average Trail Rider is, to me, completely bonkers. And I do think that Plus size tyres provide a lot of useful performance to a lot of riders.
  • 1 1
 @wingguy you're absolutely right, I would also add that its harder to roll a plus sized tire on its side if you have really wide rims. And the trend in rim widths for all tires has been going wider.

@JesseE I totally understand what you're saying, I just think you're overestimating how much plus tires slow you down. By most accounts they don't make a huge difference except in grip.

Also for applications like hardcore hardtails plus tires can actually speed the rider up by adding a little bit of suspension.

@makripper a lot of the grip comes from the more of the smooth rubber coming in contact with the trail, especially on surfaces like slick rock and hardpack. Knobs definitely do help more in mud and loose conditions, but less knobs does not necessarily mean significantly less grip
  • 2 1
 well i guess if you ride your fat plus bike on sidewalks its fine. Try riding an actual trail with advanced terrain and you will hate life LOL Have fun with your side walks and roads. Maybe just get a road bike?
  • 1 0
 I think we all agree bikes are rad. My experience is that a Hansdampf kills a 3.0 maxxis chronical in almost every respect, except when it comes to cushion and rolling over really ugly shit and HD tires were not designed for hacks. I'm personally not a very great rider, but the equipment I've ridden that pros/really great riders use/developed has me having more fun and riding better. I think anyone who takes riding even a littler seriously will be more inspired by pro's equiment than some dude in an ad saying that this new stuff is the best. I've been into bicycles since before some of you were born (sorry to be like that but unbelievably it's true) and until recently pro's have always been the mark by which real quality was ultimately measured. Obviously most people don't ride pro-level bikes, but tires/rims are some of the few things that even the hacks could aquire and appreciate. Now that kind of thinking is all out the window? Maybe I'm just old and these ideas are hard for me to accept. Or maybe pros are just so much better than they used to be. I don't know, I'm rambling now...
  • 1 1
 Plus tires are used for trail bikes dude, idk how much 'advanced terrain' there is in the trail biking world. All of the plus tires on the market right now are just wider xc tires. So uh, I don't think they could possibly be any worse on 'advanced terrain' than the xc tires they are replacing.

@JesseE most of these pros aren't running 29ers but you are, does that mean you should switch to 27.5? Just saying
  • 1 0
 No, but I run the same tire combo as about half the Enduro dudes out there and think they kick ass and work way better than tires I've had in the past that were supposed to be for people like me.
  • 3 1
 If you don't feel like you need more grip or fatter tires then maybe plus tires aren't for you, and there is nothing wrong with that. But these days there are so many options out there for parts and bikes, and what the racers run might not necessarily be what's best for you. Most downhill racers run a chain guide, but I don't because at the level I ride my clutch derailleur does a perfectly good job of keeping the chain on without one. Maybe if I rode at world cup speeds I would need one but idk.
  • 4 1
 But everyone on PB is WC DH fast without the sponsors...
  • 2 1
 I'm not gonna ride pro-level ever, but I'll always look to the gear that is popular amongst the worlds top riders cause they can pretty much have whatever they want. Of course, you need to judge stuff for you self, but as I can't test everything out there I'd be hesitant to invest in a bike built around standards that no pro takes advantage of unless I was buying into some uber niche style of riding that didn't really have pros. I guess the big thing here is that this isn't an isolated piece of gear, like a chain guide, but a wheelsize that in part determines the rest of the bike and limits buying and replacement options. If it was a matter of 2.35 vs 2.5s' whatever, who cares, but now if you wanna buy new a frame you're often looking at or past frames with boost etc. which is significant. And if the best riders aren't asking for this stuff, then I'm wondering what it's gonna do for me. Thanks for the chat, guys.
  • 2 1
 I'm definitely not faster than anyone.
  • 2 2
 It's a joke video man, it's more about the mentality of pinkbikers/racers in general.

With the exception of Gwin and the very top pros (read: the ones that make their sponsors the most money), most pros don't really get to choose what parts they ride. Their options are limited to whatever their sponsors make and what their sponsors want them to run. It's not like pro racers are rolling in the dough, many pros don't even get free parts, just discounts.
  • 2 1
 JesseE I bet you the majority of the riders in that race have never ridden a Plus bike. Most of them ride for companies that don't even sell them. Most probably the same can be said of the people in these comments. The tire tech isn't there yet but if you have ridden a good Plus bike you would know the potential is massive.
  • 1 1
 @jclnv I'd like to try more of them, or at least more tire options, cause you might be right. I've only ridden Maxxis Chronicles which are not good if you ask me and if anything seem like a nice option for winter where you don't get too much snow but have lots of crust etc. I may have to post back here and apologize if it turns out + bikes are the best thing since front suspension. Nobby Nic 2.8 look promising.

Sersiouly, though, you don't think any of those pros who are in the thick of the bike industry haven't taken our a few + bikes to see what it's all about? If I have, they have.

@samsq A joke video, I know.
  • 3 1
 @JesseE Honestly mate you've just hit the nail on the head: Plus tyres ARE designed for a style of riding that doesn't have Pro's... it's called average riding! You can't be a pro at being average, and if you're average you're not a pro, you see? A Pro who can ride Val di Sole in 3:30 will have different requirements to someone who could tiptoe down it in 10 minutes, or not get down it at all. Even the pro's don't always ride pro equipment when they're not racing. Brendan Fairclough often rides a Genius out on the trails, and Nino Schurter almost always rides a Genius instead of a Spark when he's trail riding. Who rides a non-LT Genius in pro competition? Nobody.

Also, remember that the pinkbike crowd represents a minority of MTB riders. There are loads and loads of people who just want a bike that's grippy, has buckets of traction and goes over roots easier, and they're not trying to bottom out their suspension in the berms. There's nothing wrong with providing a sensible, useful bike for those people. Think about road riding, there are loads of people who'd like to emulate a pro riders position on the bike - but for a lot of them if they rode 50 miles like it they'd need weeks of physio afterwards to get back to normal. So those people have sportive bikes instead which is just better for the level at which they ride. And the fact that sportive bikes exist doesn't make the racers riled up or angry, because race bikes still exist too. It just gives the normal rider more choice.
  • 1 0
 You're all making assumptions that Plus is only for a certain type of rider. The tire sidewalls, casing, tread, rim interface etc have barely begun to be optimized. What if a composite tire contruction with a completely different sidewall material means the tires can be stiffer with less weight penalty? What if a 1300g tire (like the forthcoming Plus Minions will likely weigh) are amazing? What if they don't need the heavy tread and just a stiffer casing? What about 2.8" Plus front and 2.6" rear? Etc...

So many unknowns. It's going to be at least a year before anyone can say catagorically they're not right for racing Enduro etc. Fast locals around here have already gone quicker on 130mm 650b+ than 160mm 650b.
  • 1 0

So this bike here is the version for schmoes www.scott-sports.com/us/en/products/241348008/SCOTT-Genius-LT-700-Tuned-Plus-Bike

And this one here is the version for pros: www.scott-sports.com/us/en/products/241330009/SCOTT-Genius-700-Premium-Bike

Scott bikes:
"27.5“Plus offers an entirely new riding experience and will extend the scope of traction and control to the majority of mountain bikes without making any significant compromises."

It's all just a really different take from how I grew up with this stuff. In my mind it was always "if it's good enough for them it's more than good enough for me" but now there's a whole new genre of bikes that is built around the idea that people will think to themselves "I'm not gonna go that fast or anything, this cushy rubber is gonna be a blast, let the pros have their un-fun bikes"

Totally new mindset.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv Great point. Unfortunately one of the side effects of having an expensive sport like mountain biking is that new innovations rarely get love-not because they are bad per se, but because most riders can't afford them. When 27.5 came out people complained that they did not want to buy new wheels or frames, and the same thing happened with 29ers.

If tires were $10 each, wheels $100 a pair, and frames $300, no one would complain about plus sized tires or 27.5 because switching to the new standard would not be a big deal. But when you multiply each of those numbers by ten and have $100 tires, $1000 wheelsets, and $3000 frames, then people become more resistant to change.

Another example of this is boost hubs. If new hubs were cheap, nobody would care about the new standard. They would just buy a new hub with their new boost frame.
  • 1 0
 How do companies even get sponsors to sell these things? Just get a bunch of bros who are popular on instagram showing off their little drops shitty turns? Can't all be about "adventure"
  • 2 1
 Right now plus sized tires are selling themselves. No pros are riding them, they've barely been in any reviews or edits, and they definitely aren't going to go away for a year or two at least. I always wanted to run 3.0s on my kona stinky back in the day, and to be honest I'm going to try and see if I can squeeze 26x2.80s in my 27.5 demo at some point. Freeride is life and wide tires are freeride
  • 3 0
 Scott bikes can make sweeping statements like that because 90% of riders out there don't ever come close to elite level competition standard and the rigours and stresses that kind of riding puts on a bike - and the tyres. For 90% of us with plus tyres we can have what we already have which is reliability, cornering stability PLUS a shit load of extra grip and ground huggability. There's loads of other things we don't necessarily need like suspension, most of us think we need 160mm travel bikes when we don't, we use stiff as hell DH casing tyres that don't conform to the ground at lower speeds, use 750mm+ bars, 200mm rotors, etc etc. Just because it's used for race bikes doesn't mean we need it on our regular old trail bikes. Maybe we should all take a minute and decide what's better for our bikes and our rides rather than just use what we see top level athletes using...like maybe plus tyres, shorter suspension. If you really need that stuff then that's cool! Even if you don't and that's what you wanna use them that's cool too - I don't give two shits. But if you we start to talk about what's better then we have to accept that top level race kit doesn't apply to all levels of riding.
  • 2 0
 @samsq yes freeride!
  • 1 0
 @JesseE Honestly I think you're just being difficult for the sake of it now. Yes, Scott say 'without any significant compromises'. That means there are some compromises - so no, you won't see pros riding them. Pros don't want any compromises because they're on the absolute limit of what the bikes can do. Most people aren't.

So it's not a case of what the pros ride being good enough or not, it's a case of whether it right for you or not. So to be honest, if there are a bunch of people out there thinking "screw what the pro's ride, I'm going to pick the equipment that will be the most fun for my level and style of riding" then good for them and more fool the people stuck in a narrow 'race optimised only' mindset who don't even freakin' race!
  • 1 0
 These reason our bikes are so rad today is cause of race level gear that made it's way down to lower level componentry. XTR is not for average joes, but thanks to it's development years ago we all have better shifting. Same XX1, minus the better shifting Wink Average Joes never demanded much more than rigid 26ers with Panaracer smokes and cantilever brakes.

Are there no pro freeriders? Do the bikes used in the rampage not inspires sales?

I guess fat bikes were born out of a no-pro environment, but they were a means to an end. You just can't ride snow nearly as well on traditional bikes. Fatty pros will end up pushing the limits of what those bikes can do, though, and with that will come new tech to meet their demands. Just not sure what's driving the development of this average mans wheel/tire size and what will optimize it.
  • 1 0
 @wingguy I'm just bored and responding as you guys do to me. I'm cool to just agree to disagree though.
  • 46 2
 Sheesh, I forgot how ugly that Spicy is until now..
  • 37 6
 And Rachel Throop made me forget how ugly GTs are.
  • 10 0
 Rachel Throop's glasses look like she's a dentist about to go to town on my teeth. Weird.
  • 6 1
 That GT Force looks amazing though!
  • 2 0
 Why do you think rallye cars have narrow tires with aggressive tread on snow, mud and gravel? Same with moto... You want to penetrate down a bit into the surface to get the proper grip.

There is a reason that almost all DH tires that the pros use are around 2.3-2.4. But to be able to get the most out of it you are going to have to lean your bike over properly

A bigger tire will just float above and and not dig in to the ground, good for beginners and average Joe but not for going really fast.

Also to get a 2.8-3.0 tire to that low weight you sacrifice performance (aggressive sideknobs) and puncture resistance. When a flat means you lost the race you want to have tires that wont get slashes and gashes that easily.
  • 1 0
 @john42 Mountain bike tires aren't supposed to dig into the ground more than a millimeter or two though, that destroys trails
  • 1 0
 Not in mud, snow and loose gravel. And pros and in racing you don't care about the trail...
  • 1 0
 Can't say I've ever raced in snow or in loose gravel.
  • 1 0
 You should try going off road sometime on a mountain bike. I really recommend it!
  • 1 0
 I did that once. It was awful. Now I only ride my downhill bike on paved roads.
  • 32 2
 Seem like the over-arching theme is "shit taped to your frame". Maybe Specialized is onto something with that downtube compartment of theirs.
  • 9 1
 I've never been a specialized fan but if they come out with the Enduro with that SWAT compartment I'd lineup for one.
  • 3 1
 I love my swat box.
  • 6 14
flag BeardlessMarinRider (Mar 9, 2016 at 14:13) (Below Threshold)
 Already posted above but... Most people already have tool holders called jersey pockets but for some reason we need to build f' off big boxes in our down tubes instead #totallyendurbro
  • 9 1

Carrying stuff in your pockets has several problems. It can be uncomfortable, it can slow you down if it comes out of balance and is hanging to one side during a run, and you can lose stuff if your pockets don't have zippers. For me the prospect of crashing and getting impaled by a mini-tool is even worse.
  • 3 0
 I personally like the tools in the frame, its a solid selling point... I was at Big Bear I ended up being one of the people a few years back to write a accident report on Eddy King... He now is paralyzed from tools being in a bag that crushed his spinal cord... It may of been a bike pump... Taking that into consideration I much rather not have anything on me that could potentially cause me to be paralyzed... SO Ill take that big box in my downtube for my safety.
  • 1 0
 Briceps. I'm sure the new one will have one
  • 30 0
 Dang lots of folks running the Magic Mary up front
  • 5 2
 Ive been on one since October and loving it. It sk8s on pebbles ovr hard pack, but most wld.
  • 8 0
 And only three guys on maxxis!
  • 3 0
 Anyone else notice the last two on vittoria tyres, wonder what they are and how much they cost, if anything like the road ones they'll be hard to beat!
  • 2 0
 Yeah I was trippin on all the MMs - is it something I need to look into next front-tire-time?
  • 2 0
 @cunning-linguist rode the vitttoria front and rear for about a week and hated them. Scariest week of riding ever. Looking at them I thought they were going to be great but they sucked in all corners, hard, loose over hard and loose. Breaking was just okay. Been on plenty of tother tires, DHF, Hans dampf, Magic Marry, HR2. All way better options than vitorria.
  • 2 0
 @endlessblockades Most definitely man
  • 1 0
 @build-n-ride cheers for the heads up!
  • 16 0
 Black electrical tape rules enduro yo.
  • 1 0
 Haha. I was wondering if electrical tape is harmful to your paint job, especially if left on for a long time?
  • 1 0
 Not in my experience. It isn't durable so generally electrical tape is taken off after the race. Long term solutions are normally velcro fabric straps but they don't hold as tight as electrical tape.
  • 11 0
 Does Ed Masters have a 200mm Fork up front? Dear lord those shafts belong in a porno
  • 1 3
 Can't say for certain...They do look long. But Mani's new Magnum ?
  • 4 0
 Oh my bad....Just saw Mattoc logo.
  • 1 1
 Question: Does electrical tape ever ruin the finish on your bike? Could you leave a tube taped on your frame for months, then remove it without peeling paint off your bike?
  • 2 0
 Good elec tape leaves no residue is most cases. The tube should not be left in the sun for months though.
  • 12 0
 Love those Sanctions!
  • 11 1
 I like Phil's and Ed's bottles
  • 12 2
 And not a plus sized tire bike in sight.
  • 12 0
 no one thinks plus sized bikes are faster..
  • 4 3
 A lot of pressers do it seems. Pros don't, it appears... haha.
  • 3 2
 Pros are paid to get fast race results, not to have fun on their bikes. Just sayin
  • 1 0
 I've tried the plus sizing multiple times on multiple frames...i can't get myself to like them.

Then again, i don't usually feel like i need traction - i like bouncing around on my stiff suspension / aired up tires.
  • 2 0
 Pros get paid to do all sorts of fun things! Unless you think going fast isn't fun Razz

Lol at downvotes. "this 'atrokz' fella made fun of my 7k slowpoke bike. how DARE he!"
  • 3 1
 Shit I totally think going fast is fun, but some people don't. Its just personal preference.
  • 2 0
 This is very true.
  • 9 1
 Really pushing the "enduro" thing with Ed Masters. To me, it looks like he's a "mountain biker," doing things that "mountain bikers" do.
  • 9 1
 Yep. Too much stuff taped onto the bikes. There should be some sort of endurobro Cliff bar frame bracket.
  • 9 0
 The winner of this race is MAGIC MARY!
  • 5 1
 The things in their noses (I assume) are Rhinomed Turbine "nasal expanders".

They open your nostrils from the inside allowing increased airflow, thus better breathing.

They really do work, no bs. They do get pretty uncomfortable after a couple hours though.

Expect to see everyone using them within a year or two.
  • 6 0
 Noticeable how 10 out of 17 run a Magic Mary in the front, and how only 2 have a coil shock.
  • 6 0
 All the Canyons still getting shipped?
  • 5 1
 For shure the most beautiful is the Giant Reign. Thats why I got my, the bike is a piece of art, all the lines are perfect. Another realy nice bikes also
  • 5 0
 lapierre bike, unlimited casimodo edition
  • 4 0
 Anyone else still trying to figure out how to pronounce the name of the forest in the first sentence???
  • 1 0
 The "Wh" sounds like an F. Or you can just refer to it as The Redwoods.
  • 2 0
 Fah-kah-reh-wah-reh-wah Easy....
  • 3 0
 What about Vannesa Quinn?? An OG with a serious world cup history in DH and no coverage??? WTF? And she is attractive! Piss poor!
  • 1 0
 Can anyone answer me this? Why are the GT men on fox and schwalbe and the GT women are on RockShox and pisstoria? Is each individual athelete repping their own sponsors and it coincidental or did the girls get the shaft (heheh).
  • 1 0
 This article is making me think my bike might be undersized. I would love to see how tall each rider is and what size frame they have. I love how my bike feels, but now I'm definitely curious.

Also, this enduro brought to you by #naturevalley
  • 5 1
 How many riders on the Lyrik instead of the Pike>
  • 3 0
 Interesting observation. They do appear to have the Lyrik's stickerset. Stiffer fork at similar weight?
  • 5 1
 More of this kind of coverage pinkbike
  • 3 0
 Any one else think those Mattocs on team Bergamont are being run at 170mm with 27.5 tires?
  • 2 0
 Sure looks like he is , I know there was some banter on the forums about how to convert it over since the 26" version is availible at 170mm
  • 3 0
 A regular mattoc converted to 170mm would still have the same amount of stanchion showing, just bottom out 10mm further in the travel (at which point the tire might hit the crown). They might be running custom mattocs though, they do look pretty freaking long.
  • 1 0
 Yeah thats right too , maybe its just the black making them appear longer , the reverse arch does that too I find
  • 2 0
 Mattoc: Enduro Approved
  • 1 0
 What am I looking at on the rear of Rae Morrison's Lapierre Spicy.... Monarch looks like it has an electric module attaached with ribbon cable coming out of it? Battery pack, not a spare tube on the down tube? Anyone?
  • 1 0
 Electronically aided suspension
  • 1 0
 It's pretty much an automatic electronic lockout that adjusts based on suspension movement as well as whether or not you're pedalling
  • 1 0
 There's a spicy at my lbs with an electronic monoarch
  • 3 0
 neniska on fox suspension but sram drivetrain? the universe is imploding
  • 3 0
 So some riders running that nostril expansion device eh
  • 1 0
 That is the most Fox 36 forks I've seen in awhile. Nice bikes. The 36 is really so MUCH better than the Pike in terms of stiffness. Both are great forks.
  • 3 0
 I didn't know Justin Trudeau raced for the Dirt/Propain team Wink
  • 2 0
 Gus Michaels representing U.S.A all the way from Medina, Ohio! Stoked for ya buddy!
  • 3 0
 Is there an enduro specific electrical tape i should know about???
  • 1 0
 The trail was so easy? 8 racers don't wear knee pads... And remember the times were carrying a backpack on an enduro race was so mandatory?? Times are changing...
  • 1 0
 I love the fact that Phil Atwill's water bottle is quite clearly a 50p bottle of the shelf of a supermarket, where all the others have special Enduro Specific bottle.
  • 9 7
  • 2 1
 Oh, your one of "those guys"
  • 2 1
 Glad to see someone (Maxi Dickerhoff) is running an even longer seatpost and even greater saddle-bar drop than I am
  • 2 0
 That Bergamont looks awesome!
  • 4 4
 lots of German bikes with Cube, Propain, Ghost and Bergamont only problem is that the Germany never has any really fast riders
  • 1 0
 What else, other than fast are Nico Lau or Aaron Gwin?
  • 1 1
 I meant German riders, not riders who ride German bikes
the German community barely seems to bring out any pro level dh/enduro riders
  • 1 1
 Sry, no clue how I misunderstood that Smile

Wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil Wink
  • 1 0
 phils propain isn't a Pro10, thats the name for the suspension design, but a pretty rad bike tbh!
  • 3 1
 The Norco range's look the sickest by far.
  • 2 0
 Please, someone tell me what the "spirit of enduro" is. Ugh.
  • 2 0
 I think he is talking about this:
  • 1 0
 Haha, hadn't seen that before, brilliant! Between Eddie Masters and The Dudes think that's pretty much got 'The Spirit' all sown up
  • 1 0
 I stand corrected. That was hilarious.
  • 1 0
 it is harder and harder to tell the difference between enduro and downhill bicycles.
  • 1 0
 @FRNZ The Propain Bike is called Propain Tyee. It uses a Pro10 Suspension system. Just so you know. Wink
  • 2 0
 Phil's Propain FTW!
  • 7 0
 Phil Atwill FTW
  • 3 2
 rachel throop what a babe
  • 5 1
 and then, right after International Women's Day, people went back to commenting on the attractiveness of female riders instead of how well they shred.
  • 1 0
 just observing bro
  • 2 0
 I believe the fast and hard working Ms. Throop is okay with her physical prowess bringing attention to her sport. I didn't know who she was until this feature and comments and motocross.transworld.net/pin-ups/rachel-throop-pinup-gallery/#9hHmsUxTHzOxQMW1.97
  • 1 0
 Maxi you lose again. Stone this time...
  • 1 0
 Eddy Masters' under-saddle snack: Fumunda cheese.
  • 1 0
 i want to see a video of phil atwill shredding the course, now!
  • 1 0
 so out of all them only Brook McDonald is running Shimano drivetrain....!?
  • 1 0
 Gus Freakin Michaels!!
  • 3 3
 looks like a session - all of em
  • 1 0
 Anyone running Procores?
  • 1 0
 Endur-bro-brah Blah blah
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