Giant's New Trance and 2017 Bikes - Eurobike Media Days, Kirchberg 2016

 Yeti went and made the Beti SB5-c look amazing too!

 Because "tested and brought to market by women." which means that somebody with taste picked the colours

I for one know that my wife has far better taste (in most things) than I do (except for scotch, beer and of course, choices of spouse).

 @rnayel: Amen! Left up to the blokes, Santa Cruz picked a colour that looks like Sangria vomit. Everyone I know chose to buy it in "boring black". Roubion looks sweet by comparison.

 I liked some of the older liv stuff quite a bit (blue & purple is rad) but I really like the blue Trance. Their designs were starting to look pretty dated, but these look really up to date & attractive.

 @YoKev: I like food and water, women like food and water. I guess I'm going to have to become a transsexual.

 That new trance looking sweet! Its soo capable of smashing terrain but I always lean to the reign side of things. Looking forward to that review but Giant always come with the banger options.

 Bike companies can make any nauseating color scheme they want, I guess to please the hipsters and fashion queens. As long as they have a murdered-out black option though, we're all good.

 @bmoore34:

At least you'll get the better colors

 The liv bikes aren't just a repaint, they are actually different bikes based off of the male counterpart

 They seem to be specced better too. Fox 36 up front and a float x2 at the rear.

 @posner: don't forget the shimano

 Isn't specific geometry the main reason why companies make women specific bikes?

 @Extremmist: Sales, selling bikes is the main reason why companies make women specific bikes.

 @rnayel: But some companies claimed to have women specific geometry such as shorter cranks and stem, narrower handlebar, softer suspension, saddle and grips etc. I think it was Trek or Specialized, not sure.

 double post

 That baby blue / turquoise livery is addictive. Totally agree last 2-3 years reign and now the trance are beautiful bikes, well made.

 @gastonbx: really into giant blue at the moment though the reign in orange yellow was hard to beat .

 Color schemes and logo/graphic treatment is a touchy issue. The way I see it unless your sponsoring me leave the redicilous graphics off a well designed bike. Giant has made huge improvements to that issue but graphic desigers are highly under paid, basically you get what you pay for.

 @YoKev: the 1950s called.. They have a village missing an idiot........

 @YoKev: meh, my wife is an accomplished fashion designer, she married me because of my fashion sense not despite it. Some men have great eyes for design and colour selection, Ralph Lauren, Balenciaga, and Oscar de la Renta come to mind.

Conversely, some women have a great eye for design and colour selection, think D. Versace, Diane von Furstenberg and Karan.

My point is that style and taste are not segregated to a gender, however close-minded, thoughtless comments such as yours are almost always the product of ignorant small minds.

 I must have accidentally clicked the Tampax website forum.

 @rnayel: wtf? why in the hell would you mention any of that? Good god people, get it together, be a f*cking man and pull your dick out of your own ass.

 Yip quite a wtf move by giant, they even added a dropper... also changing the anthem to be more gravity?? I think giant have forgotten the xtc and anthem are xc bikes not an endurobro rig

 @rrsport: Looks like several manufacturers are going with xc models designed around a bit more versatility i.e. Rocky Mountain just redesigned their Element for the first time in years. I guess trying to provide a bike that "does it all". Seemingly to respond to trail design and bike capabilities. I witnessed a XC race this past weekend that definitely was a hybrid of old school xc trails and some new school free ride trails.... clearly scared the hell out of many xc racers on hard-tails with minimal travel.

 i'm curious how wide the spec'd tires are on the new trance. since it's boost hubs, I assume they have the space to go wider...

 Yeah rediculous eh! A carbon race hardtail NEEDS to be standard 29 inch. Period!

 The thing with the bolts (in pro racers bikes) is to allow the mechanics to change the rotor quickly, not for weight.

 @murdoch50: It doesn't need fox 34 forks though and 110mm travel

 I don't mind the extra "trail" spec on XC bikes of late. Most of us do similar upgrades on new bikes anyway to get the most out of them. My guess is that dedicated racers are a small portion of the potential buyers anyway. Most of us just want to find a bike that suits are trails/needs.

The XTC+ looks appealing.

 @rrsport: How are you calling a 10mm increase in rear travel and a fork that isn't a wet noodle "more gravity"?

 @passwordpinkbike: Not the pros I know. It's pure weight they are all weight abscessed, and it's usually a Ti bolt too.. Why would you need to change a rotor fast? If you damage a rotor during a race you just swap the whole wheel.

 @ReformedRoadie: Because it weighs more, gives more travel than necessary for xc, and includes a short stem... clearl

 @ReformedRoadie: It weighs more, the extra travel isn't necessary for xc and it includes a short stem and dropper... clearly set up more gravity oriented

 @rrsport: if you haven't been paying attention, droppers have been showing up at WC XC events.

RE: shorter stem, a better handling bike is a better handling bike regardless of whatever discipline it's intended.

 @ReformedRoadie: I race xc. None of us use short stems on our race bikes.

 @rrsport: sweet, so put a long stem on your race rig and leave the short stems for the rest of us that want a more well-rounded "XC" bike. I have always wanted a quicker, lighter, snappier bike than what was offered in the trail/ enduro selections, but steered away from any XC rig strictly because they always came with minimal travel, dirt-roadie geo, and parts that wouldn't last 10min under my gravity-backed skill set. These new bikes are better for the 90% of us that understand we will never be a N1NO but wouldn't mind having a bike for the less technical riding, and would prefer not to ride a razor blade of a bike that typically comes with any "race-rig". Most people I see riding XC rigs do so for the weight alone, with the mindset that they need all the help they can get. Well, most of them could afford to put down the beer and burgers, and could actually use a bike that would also allow them to not pussy-foot back down the mountain because of the 'weight is everything' mindset (old term for these guys is "soilers" because they always look like they are about to shit their chamois) Hell, most of the riders I see that are any decent that ride XC bikes around here already run heavier casing and larger tires, wider bars, shorter stems, and dropper posts. Why not give these riders they want and need out of the box, and the remaining 10% can

 ... spend the needed cash to get it down to their weight-weenie needs. Most of those guys throw money at their bike like its name is Tiffany anyways in the hopes their Vo2 max will magically increase the 2 points they need to bump out of Cat2 and win Worlds.

 @mtnbykr05: exactly what I was getting at

 I'm liking the liv too.am I gay?

 @Earthmotherfu: if you have to ask, your not. Also, if you have to ask, you may be ignorant as well...

 @VwHarman: by definition, if one has to ask (anything), then one is indeed ignorant.

 My daughters name is Liv so im good to go!!

 The shop I work at keeps the livs and other female bikes right by the front door and at least once a day we get a guy wanting to buy them because of looks. We have sold a couple to smaller men because they felt more comfortable on them than the men's counterpart.

 @CircusMaximus: Ha! That is about the truest statement of the day. Well played!

 @VwHarman: well not really is it? There is scope to learn something new every day. Nobody knows everything. It doesn't mean to say that they are ignorant does it?

 @Earthmotherfu: only if you listen to Katy Perry

 Don't show this new liv to my girlfriend. I like her ass mud free and waiting at the trailhead for me.

 @Earthmotherfu: Liv bikes are for small people. Your love life has nothing to do with the bike you chose.

 @properp: well put, and very much better articulated than my attempts a few comments earlier.

 @properp: never mentioned love

 @uphill-blues: no I don't.more of a baz manilow man meself

 See, I feel like a man can ride a pastel purple bike ironically and look cool, but a woman on a pastel purple bike looks like a drip. I personally feel the need to overcompensate away from all things feminine and buy a bike that is matte-painted barf green and covered in flaming skulls so that people walking their dogs up the downhill-only trails know I will cut them down without a thought if they don't get out of the way.

 I had a.similar question about Luna bars...the lemon ones are sooo tasty.

 My trance x1 was an awesome bike once it got decent suspension. Bought a nomad and i can't touch a lot of my DH times i set on the trance with it. My wife inherited it and loves it still

 I love my 2015 Reign...

But oh my god that Trance is beautiful. That new linkage is a work of art.. and if this is anything to go by, the Reigns should be just as nice... This might be the year that actually makes me want to move on from the Orange beast! :'(

 huh - maybe that's why the two pivot bearings for that upper link were the most damaged ones of all 12 i replaced on a trance recently

 @xeren: grab the top of wheel and saddle a give it a wiggle.

 Hmm thats odd, after a season and a half of bike park and enduro racing i haven't needed to replace bearings and have zero play in the bike.

 @jclnv mate then you should see mondrakers upper link and flex old dunes you can make te front derailleur touch the tire just by seated pedaling
upper links must be one piece

 @StupidFastRebound: I second This!!! Love My Gold Trance SX~ Haters can Eat my Dust tryin to keep up!

 @Jaybirdy: I'm not saying it isn't a good bike, just that the upper link is comedy.

 Yep I swapped out the main rocker link bearings with some enduro abec 5 angular contact....my rocker link has been tight and smooth since....the new design hopefully eliminates the need to do that...

 @jclnv: it never developed play, i just figured it was time to replace the bearings after 2 years, and the upper link bearings were definitely the most "grainy" feeling. if giant decided to sell an updated upper link, though, i would probably buy one to be safe

@StupidFastRebound i would at the very least take the rear triangle off and check the smoothness of the bearings if you've never done so before. i'll probably check them every year and if they're fine, replace them every 2 years just to keep ahead of things

 @jclnv: give the yeti's a wiggle, crazy flex. Maybe it's designed into it?

 @xeren: Check em before every race my DH is a wilson so im constantly replacing those

 @ukr77: the Evil's are just as bad too. Try a new Stumpy or to a lesser degree a Bronson though.

If they're designed to do it why are we bothering with Boost?

 @jclnv: Well, you are applying force in the place where it cannot be when you are riding. Try to flex the bike holding it at the bottom of the wheel...

 @makak178: It will still flex, just less so, but then the forces are massively lower compared to riding.

 I know that Knolly uses a threaded bottom bracket because they are not "fxcking around" lol

 Boutique brands don't care if the bike costs them $100 more. Giant, Specialized, Trek and the rest of the bigger brands do.

 intrigues are 140mm, hail is 160mm, so its the first 160mm womens specific enduro machine like it says in the article?

 @jaycubzz: The intrigue SX is 160mm front and 140mm rear

 @digger000012: yeah but when you refer to the bike, not the fork.

i could put a boxxer on an intrigue and it wouldnt be a 200mm travel bike, itd still be 140mm

its not hard to understand.

 Creaky TT sounds sketchy, get that checked at a shop to make sure the frame isn't compromised.
Headset and BB creaks can be delt with but top tubes :S

 @spudlord: Seconded. @ctd07 get that sent back and looked at, no bikes top tube should be creaking

 Is it the top tube that's creaking or the top link? I've only asked because the above commenter @jclnv mentions having issues with it.
But yes, take it to a shop to get checked out, you don't want it to separate mid jump or something!

 @ctd07: Top tube creaks is more likely a crack. Check bearings and stuff.

I happen to think the Trance was long enough as well. Maybe getting the 10mm off the chainstays and add them to top tube was fine to keep the long wheelbase in check but now the bike is 5mm even longer.

 BB92 is literally one of the most common size of pressfit bb and is the standard size for 24mm spindle cranks.

It's not wider than an 83mm threaded bb either since that doesn't include the external cups and if you include the external cups of a 83mm bb it comes to like 103mm wide where as a bb92 is actually 92mm wide.

So this will fit all your 68/73mm wide, 24mm spindle cranksets and most 30mm spindle (raceface,e13 etc... but not bb30) cranks with the right bearing cups/axle lengths.

It's not perfect but isn't new, they still use a shell diameter which is undersized for 30mm spindles.

 @spudlord: Are there any after market BB kits to negate the press-fit-BB-creak issue for this standard? (Genuine question)

Personally I won't buy a bike with a press fit BB unless I can retro-fit something like the praxis conversion BB and for BB92 that isn't an option.

 @karatechris: www.bikemag.com/gear/bottom-bracket-racket-chris-kings-answer-press-fit-woes/#CfVEOMckEqrL149l.97

 @karatechris: yes, Wheels MFG, Praxis, & Hope make "thread together" BBs for BB92 to mitigate creaks.

The problem is, they only make them for 24mm or GXP spindle cranks. Which is becoming increasingly more of a pain, as all the new crankset hotness is coming in 30mm.

but if you're OK with Shimano or SRAM cranks, you're fine.

 @karatechris: Pressfit BBs creak and it comes from movement of the cups, it's a problem but the screw together cups seem like the best way of dealing with it past the whole, multitude of different greases or pastes you can put into a carbon from to deal with it.

Pressfit does kind of make sense in a carbon frame since you'd have to bond an alloy sleeve into the carbon frame for the bb to then screw into negating the benefit and bringing prices up. Even then external threaded BBs are a bodge anyway since the bearings are only on the outside since they wouldn't fit in the shell.

The industry is improving with BB creaks with improved tolerances and BBs like the praxis and the Hope ones but each creaky BB is it's own problem and the best thing to do is find a good mechanic who knows what they're doing. We've been using copaslip on carbon frames and haven't had reports of creaky BBs.

And @groghunter i completely agree, the BB standard that makes most sense is BB386EVO Which is the bb92 width but with larger bearings for 30mm spindles (will also fit 24mm spindles)

 @groghunter: Do these solutions also work with PF30? I have a couple of bikes that have this infernal issue with PF30, and would love to get rid of that annoying creaking!

Thanks

 @karatechris: We are still waiting for our PF92 BB's to start creaking. It's only been 3yrs so maybe we haven't been patient enough.

 What exactly is a Powercore BB? That caught my eye.

 @hollowing2000: Powercore is just their marketing slogan for the BB junction. Giant have used BB92 in the past.

 @spudlord: As a mechanic, I have had good luck on my personal bike as well as customers using TI paste. pretty much the same as grease but I find it stiffer/thicker and wont wash out right away and wont ruin a frame warranty like other press fit creaky BB fixes.

 @streetfighter848: Here's an example of a Praxis one that works with both BB30 & PF30: www.bikerumor.com/2015/08/19/praxis-threads-in-new-pfbb30-bottom-bracket-for-race-face-cinch-rotor-rex-cranksets

Pretty sure Wheels MFG makes one too, can't remember for Hope. I think Rotor makes some thread togethers as well.

Wheels MFG is usually the best bet for Americans, Praxis is a little more expensive due to coming from the UK(& Hope just prices their stuff higher than the other two, period.)

Be carefull ordering Wheels MFG stuff from Amazon or ebay though, as there is a lot of counterfeiting going on with their stuff. One dead giveaway is if it comes in colors: Wheels only makes black & red, everything else is counterfeit. that doesn't mean the black & red ones are genuine, though.

 @groghunter: Sweet! Thanks a bunch for the recommendation and the heads up on scammers. I'll probably go through my LBS but definitely great to know.

 @groghunter: good to know. I'm fine with shimano and sram cranks. Can't see the needs to go wider on the spindle for me

 Why is that?

 I've been running Giant bikes since before they started using press fit BB's. I have never had an issue with the pressfitt BB. My trance is still running the original after 3 years, as is my buddies. No creaks, no issues. And we live on the east coast of Canada so we do a lot of wet riding. Im not saying they don't creak for people, but I have weighed as much as 280lbs hammering around on press fit bb's and never once had an issue.

 Pressfit BB are very susceptible to creaking unless both the frame manufacturer and BB manufacturer have very tight tolerances. It's also easier to install slightly off, even with a shop quality tool, than threaded. After two press fit MTB's and constant noise, no more.

BMX bikes for years had old school press-fit and made noises constantly. They have pretty much all moved to threaded now. MTB companies are going the opposite direction for $$ reasons. The sales pitch is more surface area to work with externally. Fine, but that can be accomplished and still have threaded interface of some dimension

 @Amart: Maybe it's the dry/dust here in Colorado, but I have had two different brands' press fit frames. No matter the installation, lubrication, etc. the creaks always returned.

 It's not the cups creaking on the frame, its bearings creaking in cups.

 Creaking depends on axle diameter to a great extent. 24mm spindles make for less chance of creaking since bearing balls come in reasonable size. As soon as I saw bearings for my newly purchased Hope crank with 30mm spindle I went: I can't believe I got myself into this...

 Any BB creaks at some point. But since press-fit has more parts, its more prone to creak. And if you ride a lot of miles, the hours really add up for repair work. Simply put, no brand using press-fit gets my money.

 @WAKIdesigns: I've just pressed in a shimano pf92 on my sb,never used these before so fingers crossed.

 @WAKIdesigns: My friend has the Hopes on two of his bikes, one is his AM/Enduro bike. He is about 205 pounds and rides the bike hard. Often at the bike park in Steamboat Springs, Colorado where he lives. No issues for 6 months or so.

 @Earthmotherfu: the problem with pressfit is that you need an expensive tool and frame gets worn out after time. Procedure of deinstallation and installation takes more work. Threaded bearings are cheap as hell, they are available everywhere and are a breeze to replace. Sometimes my bearings go for 2 years, and sometimes they die in 3 months. Then we can talk creaking issues...

But I don't agree that it's just an industry plot, that is bollocks. In certain instances (like my current bike) they allow designers to have more freedom with chainstay/linkage design.

 @WAKIdesigns: I did think about using a adaptor thingy for screwin cups,just for the ease of replacement.but to be honest I've entered a minefield of Cambodia proportions(boost rear,chainline,offset this,offset that,chainline tyre clearance etc etc) that I've just gone with what they designed in the end.well see

 I've had at least four Giants with press fit BBs and none of them have squeaked or creaked. Maybe this is an issue for other brands, but not Giant.

 @WAKIdesigns: the problem with threaded is chasing and facing. Those tools cost more than a piece of threaded rod and some proper sized washers and nuts.

 I'm not convinced that Pressfit BB's are as bad as people think. They are relatively cheap to replace too. There are also known solutions if the creak is still there. I'm no expert but that's my impression anyway.

 my pressfit bb is 3 seasons old and it is functionally as good as new. never had a creak either

 That is not what I am hearing from top bike mechanics in my town. They all say Pressfit, BB30 in particular is crap compared to outboard bearings. My RF 42x30 bearings creak already after 2 months. Not much, but still.

 Come to Daddy

 AMEN!

 They stopped making full suspension 29ers because of there terrible suspension designs. Most of their 27.5 bike have 17.3 inch chainstays and the current anthem 29er has 18 inch chain stays.

 Ironic that 'Giant Bikes' doesn't make FS 29ers.

 They planned the end game for 29er couple of years ago. But since they are not stupid (as they admit) there may be one more. Keep my legs crossed....

 @Downhill29erplease: I rode a 18 inch stay Anthem 29er and it was a great bike. Crazy fast and fun.

 @Downhill29erplease: They have kept one Alu 29er Anthem in but a spanking CF version with these kind of updates would be very, very tempting

 it will be great if they will

 Doubtful if they are designed for 'Metric' sizing?

 @steviestokes:

New rocker link and a new Metric shock. I wonder if it would be a noticeable performance upgrade?

 obviously not!! why would they do that? they want you to spend more money on a new bike! rocker link is too cheap

 i'm pretty sure that girl's bike is a reign, not a trance! there's already a girl's trance, besides no trance uses high volume shocks (name it vivid air or fox x2)

 As of a few years ago, Giant made 2.7 million bikes a year for other brands (such as the example you gave) but Giant only make the bikes to the specification of the brand in question. Yeti design and concept that bike you mention, then go to Giant with the dimensions and specification, who then make it as instructed by Yeti. Giant is not at fault here. There must be a flaw in the design of the frame, and for that you can blame Yeti. The evidence for this is the millions of other carbon bikes Giant make that haven't cracked.

 More like a "we want you to buy a new bike rather than upgrade your old one" shock.

 My previous metric related post got down-voted into oblivion probably because it was viewed as being anti-metric. That wasn't the point. Instead it was meant to call attention to how the term was being used simply to make a new roster of sizes more palatable to consumers. I suppose it had to be called something though.

 They are wider than that. 740mm

 LOL best comment xD

 they don't list the i2i or stroke so no way to know just yet. also fox will be coming out with their own metric versions so there will most likely be options.

 @literally: look at what specialized did with fox. Made interchangeablity mute. No standard du bushings so unless fox makes fit kits specificly to work with those bikes the current mounting will be non compatible

 @literally: I'm actually fairly certain one of the new bikes we've seen in the last week had a metric FOX shock, in fact.

 I had a 2014 Trance X and always hated that I could not run Cane Creek on it. I like the option to upgrade the rear shock.

 @groghunter: it's not the metric spacing look at the top of the rear shock. No du bushing. There is one on the bottom but the top has 2 threaded holes to mount onto. Instead of one bolt that goes through (mostly standard) there are one on each side.

 @groghunter:

Pretty sure it was the new scott

 @AJ420: Gotcha. I had one of the Demo 8s with a similar thing, rear eyelet was drilled for an M6 bolt, & it pivoted on bearings in the mounting tabs, with spacers to take up the slack between the bearing & the eyelet. fortunately the DHX 4 on there never gave me reason to complain, but putting those spacers back in after taking things apart was a nightmare.

 @AJ420: i'm not familiar with the S/fox setup but is there a possibility this bike uses an insert that has female threads on both ends that the outer bolts go into?

 Just curious, how is changing the shock brand an 'upgrade'? Going to a higher spec model, yes, regardless if you stay with the same brand or switch. But 'upgrading from RS to Fox'? Almost like PB editors using the word 'upgrade' when referring to wheel size change...

 @bananowy: If you prefer FOXs damping tune to RS, then it's an upgrade.

Also, you should run back to your bridge, I think I hear some billy goats trying to cross it.

 @AJ420: yep, it looks like the trek's DRCV mount, perhaps it has the same size of DRCV shocks, meaning i can use one of those metric shocks on my fuel ex with crappy drcv shock?

 @jorge269: It's a standardized trunion mount, I haven't seen anybody compare it to DRCV, not sure if it's the same. However, RS is making DRCV monarchs now, might have better reliability.


buuuuut: the fact they're making DRCV monarchs rather than DRCV deluxes probably isn't a great sign.

 The advanced?

 I'm a fan of the possibilities trunion mount shocks open up for pivot placement etc. Ironically, it looks unnecessary on this frame. Is there a reason to use one otherwise. My assumption is that they are more expensive.

 @dfiler: No matter what else they do with the design they should still be able to fit a longer stroke shock in the same space by using the trunnion mount.

 Should have Future proofed it with super boost(ala pivot)

 No, but a good bike with improvements is exactly what everyone wants. Would you want them to still be selling the same exact bike as they did 10 years ago, no! If they did, you'd be whining that it hasn't changed at all. Whiners will be whiners.

 @RollinFoSho: Yeah, good point. In the end, standards aren't on our minds when we are out flying down the trail. If it's a worthwhile improvement, let's give it a go!

 @RollinFoSho: A conversation is being had about the merits of trunion mounts on this bike. Ironically, you're the one whining rather than joining the level headed discussion. It honestly would be interesting to read an analysis of the pros/cons of this design.

 @dfiler: as was said in the article, shortening the shock mounts allows more seatpost insertion. because the pivot blocks the seat tube.

 @dfiler:

The conversation was not only about Trunion mounts. I too am curious to know how much the Trunion mount impacts performance.