Greg Minnaar Shares his Training Difficulties Following a COVID-19 Diagnosis

Mar 18, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  
Fastest in timed runs and with style to boot Greg Minnaar is not afraid of pushing on a natural track.

Greg Minnaar has announced on social media that he caught COVID-19 while on a trip to Europe. Thankfully it was only a mild dose of the disease and he recovered "pretty quickly" but the aftermath of the disease is still disrupting his training.

The South African racer came into the offseason on the back of taking his record-extending 22nd World Cup win and finishing 3rd in the World Cup overall. Unfortunately, it sounds like the lingering effects of the disease will affect his preparation to build on that for the year ahead. He said, "I'm now two weeks post-COVID and I thought I'd be back training which isn't the case". He is currently working on keeping his heart rate down and letting his body fully recover for the next two weeks so he can resume normal training as soon as possible.

bigquotesWell, we had a good trip to Europe a couple weeks back and I came back to South Africa to continue training and unfortunately came down with COVID. I must be honest I was really fortunate to have a mild dose and recovered pretty quickly.

I'm now two weeks post-COVID and I thought I'd be back training which isn't the case. So, I've been chained to my doctors and my trainer Stefan out of Norway to come up with a solution over the next couple of weeks to return to full training.

And it's not quite what I'm used to so I thought I'd share a bit over the next couple of weeks on what we're doing to try and keep the heart rate down and let the body fully recover before we return to full steam ahead training for this World Cup season.
Greg Minnaar

We wish Greg a speedy recovery and hope to see him back at full fitness soon.


  • 180 2
 Healing vibes Greg - heard of lots of young fit healthy people who have a mild dose but ‘Long COVID’ lingers. Good reminder to us all to keep being sensible both on & off the bikes until it’s all a distant memory ????
  • 94 7
 Long COVID is the real deal. My wife's friend has been suffering with symptoms since May of 2020. She's just starting to feel normal, but back in November she still couldn't catch a breath or perform any strenuous activity, sever brain fog, and no taste or scent which resulted in excessive weight loss, real nasty shit. She is in her 30's and was pretty healthy previously to the best of my knowledge. Between the weight and muscle loss she'll be recovering for years, plus I don't know about any long term impact to her lungs or other organs. Stay Healthy People.
  • 42 12
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: fk covid.

Will be getting the vaccine as soon as it is my turn.

New strains etc are a worry though.
  • 46 180
flag scott-townes (Mar 18, 2021 at 4:44) (Below Threshold)
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: Excessive weight loss? Dang, I need me some of that COVID diet.
  • 22 0
 This is very timely for me personally. About 5-6 days out from "recovery" but facing similar issues with elevated heart rate, brain fog, etc. I'm very curious to hear how professionals like Greg are dealing with this. Very few resources out there on how to properly recover, maintain and regain fitness. If anyone has seen some I'd be curious to read up on it.
  • 28 3
 @scott-townes: mixed feelings about this, too soon maybe
  • 4 4
 @scott-townes: I put on 2lbs because I'm not working out and I ate like a pig, so YMMV
  • 31 2
 @hatton: 2lbs? pfft amateur. I put on over 10KG in lockdown
  • 4 5
 @nojzilla: @nojzilla: I knocked on an extra 10lbs. But it was 10 I lost previously, so...

Man, viruses are smart little monsters. Pretty lucky our bodies are such absurdly adaptive fortresses or they'd have wiped us out a long time ago. Microscopic organisms versus the human body on an epic scale.

Anybody besides me a fan of the Micronauts comic in the 80's wanna nerd out here?
  • 4 3
 @hatton: haven't experienced covid (I think) nor have I reviewed any medical articles on the subject of recovery. I will offer that any mind-body combo work that you can do (e.g. yoga) may be beneficial. good luck hatton and good luck to all
  • 1 1
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: No but I did like that man shrinking film with Donald bald head !
Ps getwellsoongreg
  • 22 17
 People should stop calling this long Covid. I have it, and it’s almost always something called POTS. POTS is an autonomic nervous system syndrome that appears after infections, traumas, etc, and causes some pretty extreme issues.

Sure, a lot of people will take a couple of months to get back to normal, but that also isn’t long covid.

I have a doctor at the Mayo Clinic who manages my pots and the root cause of it for me (nerve damage, but aggravated by covid).

POTS never goes away for some people, and typically last for up to 5 years in a most.

Hopefully the goat is just dealing with some minor issues and hasn’t developed POTS
  • 5 5
 @Mntneer: early days but some are reporting 'long COVID' symptoms are reduced or cleared up once they're vaccinated so there is some hope.
  • 5 1
 @hatton: Look up Orla Walsh on social media, @pedalingheroine on Instagram. She posted a lot of information on her recovery process from COVID.
  • 17 0
 @Ktron: I got it on Tuesday and have zero reaction to it other than a sore arm the next morning. Honestly, it was even less painful than the flu shot all and all.
  • 3 5
 @hatton: Rob Orman is a mountain biker and I believe that he talked about his plan for COVID recovery if he catches it on shift.

Stimulus is the name of the podcast. Starts around 13:00

Opinion, not hard science. I haven't seen any trials on this, although they may exist.
  • 9 1
 @hatton: 2lb? I fluctuate that much on a daily basis sometimes.
  • 2 23
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 8:09) (Below Threshold)
 @Mntneer: Nope, long Covid really is a thing. Covid never disappears from the body, it stays for life as an "impulse". This is rather unique to this virus. Symptoms can reappear after weeks, months or even decades.
  • 8 7
 @DavidGuerra: sounds more rare than POTS. I’m going to go with one of the best doctors in the world, rather than what you read on the internet
  • 6 16
flag scott-townes (Mar 18, 2021 at 8:12) (Below Threshold)
 @fracasnoxteam: For my fat ass, its not soon enough. Going to a crowded bar. BRB.
  • 6 2
 @hatton: such a crazy virus. I didn’t know that I had covid until I went to donate blood. Zero symptoms, zero recovery period.
  • 1 0
 @Mntneer: Good luck!
  • 4 1
 @sourmix: That makes zero medical sense. Only psychological
  • 2 0
 @gnarlysipes: haha - more saying it aint a guaranteed way to lose weight. I have roadie tendencies that pop up from time to time and worry about w/ the end of the day I just like to be faster than my buddies on bikes.
  • 1 1
 @hatton : supposedly the vaccine is helping to alleviate these residual effects.
I also wonder if hyperbaric oxgygen therapy might help.
I've had good overall results with this stretching technique:
I pretty much ignore the new age stuff/Chinese Medicine 'meridian portion',
but might be worth a shot to work that lung meridian, and see what happens.

As you said, I haven't seen official courses of action for remediating lingering symptoms,
and don't think I've had COVID yet
(I was sick in January...after a coworkers New Years trip to Thailand...where she got deathly ill...#patientzero)
so am just spitballin here.
Good luck!
  • 4 0
 @hatton: Went through it last March, 12 months on still not back to normal. Though getting better over time.
  • 1 0

Huh, I never collected or really saw those toys. I do remember the 80's band Mortal Micronotz out of Kansas, whose record I passed by on the rack many many times and never bought or listened to. On a YT journey now....
  • 6 1
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: why your comment has ANY downvotes is beyond me. I am so sorry for your wife's friend. One of my best friends had no pre-existing conditions and was an incredibly fit multisport athlete. She's been sidelined for almost a year now with long term complications. Just last week she was finally able to run half a mile (previously did marathons no problem). So frustrating.
  • 14 68
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 9:46) (Below Threshold)
 @Ktron: Which the vaccines are causing.
  • 30 5
 @jclnv: dumbest comment award goes to...
  • 2 2
 @suspended-flesh: actually Marvel Comics created a Microverse comic book Micronauts to pair up with a sales push of the Micronauts toys.

It was well written for the period. Shouldn't have really been tied to the toy series,
  • 7 0
 @jclnv: what are you talking about?
  • 8 5
 @DavidGuerra: How can you know that a virus that was unknown to medical science 18 months ago will have effects decades later?
  • 8 1
 @HB208: I've had both my jabs now with the Moderna vaccine and I had a minor reaction to the first shot, mostly a painful arm and some euphoria, like a dopamine response. I literally got my second shot about 3hrs ago so we'll see how this pans out.
  • 16 2
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: All and all, I would rather have a slight or even moderate reaction to the vaccine than get COVID. I'm sure you feel the same.
  • 8 2
 @Ktron: I had the astrazeneca jab 5 days ago, felt a bit rough for a few days after but its better than catching covid, i have breathing problems anyway so i'm still glad glad i got my first vaccine dose, i watched a program the other night on long covid and its proper serious shit.
  • 2 3
 @sourmix: I read this too. It’s too soon to say for sure but I hope it’s true for those that have it. Glad I got vaccinated with the even more powerful strain making it’s way around the world now. Hopefully people take the first chance they get too.
  • 10 0
 @korev: Corona viruses have been studied for decades.
  • 6 25
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 13:39) (Below Threshold)

Where have the ‘variants’ come from?

Do you think if everyone is turned into a asymptomatic carrier by the vaccine and other pressures (NPI’s) it won’t mutate into a more virulent strain?

When the vaccines become ineffective and younger people who had a good natural immune response to SARS- COV-2 start getting very sick, how quick can you produce another vaccine? Considering the virus can produce a new strain in about 12 hours.
  • 17 2
 @jclnv: Um, variants arise when they mutate when the virus transfers to a new person. So more spread means more variants. Having the population vaccinated decreases the chance of this happening, but ok.
  • 11 0
 @jclnv: good lord. it's clear you are not a doctor. citation pls

riddle me this brianiac: if the virus is still spreading "asymptomatically" to "everyone" what advantage is the virus gaining by mutating to a variant that produces more disease.
  • 8 2
 @scott-townes: your true self pops up every now and then in the pinkbike comments, so I'll take this opportunity to again remind you that you are a dick
  • 6 19
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 14:32) (Below Threshold)

Ahh because people aren’t virally loaded enough. A longer more symptomatic period equals more spread. However, if that happens naturally through a population we get heard natural immunity and a low mutation rate. Mass vaccinate and NPI’s etc and the virus will select for the most virulent mutation.

Check out ‘viral immune escape’.
  • 8 2
 @jclnv: Natural heard immunity at what cost? Millions of deaths? Less than 10% of the US population has had COVID and we have 600k deaths. Multiply that by five to 10 and that's a lot of people dying. Plus, you are just wrong on how viruses mutate. The mutations happen when the code is transferred, so more spread equals more chances for mutation equals more mutation.
  • 14 4
 @jclnv: Who else in the established medical community holds this position?

You've basically rationalized away the entirety of immunology in your gibberish. There is a body of evidence that supports immunology that is undeniably massive and beyond well established.

This is anti-vax hokum.
  • 5 2
 @CarlMega: All you need to know is that this idiot thinks that more spread is the key to stopping mutations.
  • 8 21
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 15:23) (Below Threshold)
 While I don’t necessarily agree with the mass vaccination conclusion, there is some counter narrative information in this -

Along with the other fun little coincidence, that being the virus having originated naturally from the same region as a level 4 bio laboratorylol , it’s interesting that these “variants of concern” originated in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa. All three countries where the Astra Zeneca trials too place.

I think a vaccination of the elderly, the obese and/or those with hypertension would have been effective enough. The vast majority of younger people have enough adaptive immunity to cope with the virus without risking the possible autoimmune risk from mRNA vaccines. It would likely have had the welcome byproduct of reducing depression, suicides and allowing screening and preventative surgery’s to continue. I’m sure you’re aware that the aforementioned may end up causing more deaths over the longer term than the virus itself.
  • 5 16
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 15:33) (Below Threshold)
  • 14 1

I was reading that 80% of humans with autoimmune diseases are women. I had no idea. An article written by a female autoimmune researcher also had this to say:

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (and others in the pipeline) have thus far been remarkably safe and effective. Based on experience with Covid and with other vaccines, it seems far better for people with autoimmune diseases to take these vaccines, than to risk Covid.
  • 5 12
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 15:50) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: Is that risk based on the current long term trials...?

Seems a bit presumptuous don’t you think?
  • 11 3
 @jclnv: Oh my, you are stunningly ill informed. And do you know how long it takes to make an MNRA booster for a new strain? Not distribute, but simple to create? I do. How about you go find that info for yourself and report back. You're an honorable dude, right? If what you find contradicts the narrative you have adopted, you will integrate the new information, right?
  • 5 2
 @jclnv: Ah I know very little about it actually.

But did you know that PB considers *you* a Variant of Concern? I've seen the list!

I'm on there too, but trying to keep it cool.
  • 6 3
 @jclnv: Woah, this is so wrong I'm even more stunned. :-/
  • 2 1
 @Ktron: new strains are weaker that is how a virus works, please read about it and understand the basics. viruses dont want to kill their host, so as they mutate/change they get weaker, that is how it works. the spanish flu is still out there but it is weaker.
  • 8 7
 10,000iu Vitamin-D in winter 5,000iu in summer (not a vitamin it is a steroidal hormone for immune system, nervous system and skeletal system)
600mg Magnesium (critical for activating Vit-D to both prohormone and active hormone, D does not work well without it)
1 gram Vitamin-C 2x a day (important for immune system white blood cell production and mobilization)
Pretty much most of the population is deficient in one or all of these, especially Vit-D, the most important. Above will go very very long way in both preventing you from catching the virus and getting severely ill, "long covid" or death.
  • 2 10
flag jclnv (Mar 18, 2021 at 18:48) (Below Threshold)
 @Chuckolicious: What? The links?

The fact that is immune escape?
  • 9 10
 @suspended-flesh: Very happy to be a variant. Life is too short to follow agendas and narratives that are obviously politically/financially motivated.
  • 5 2
 @gunslingger: "viruses don't want to kill their host." You are just a plain idiot. Viruses want to replicate, yes, but there are viruses that devastate their host... like ebola.

Viruses also can get weaker or stronger in mutation. There is nothing that says that a virus will weaken. I mean, COVID is literally a mutation of another virus... sooo.....
  • 4 6
 @HB208: the one expert was warning that the virus being aggressively supressed in at risk groups & elderly is counter intuitive to herd immunity & if left no "easy target hosts" the strains that will be predominant are the agressive ones that will continue to proliferate because he's saying the 2 dose mRNA vaccine isn't building a true immunity like the typical "dead or weak" cells vaccines used for flu, etc. So the stronger strains may "incubate" undamaged in seniors who have been vaccinated and then jump to younger people as more invasive strains in an attempt to survive.

My Cliff Notes version is terrible. It was a long, fairly logical explanation about how we're max vaccinating the weakest strains in at risk groups and younger bodies are the ones strains will be forced to latch onto as powerfully as possible?

Wish i could translate what I heard. It made a lot of sense.
  • 5 1
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: what "expert"?
  • 3 10
flag cuban-b-can-blow-me (Mar 18, 2021 at 20:44) (Below Threshold)
 @CarlMega: great question. I didn't save it. Someone on here actually re-posted his video. It's a 1 hr YouTube video. German guy with ties to CDC/WHO. I'll check my YouTube history. No promises.

edit: found it.

I don't pretend to be an expert. I like logic. I try to have an open mind and listen to different theories to get as much info as I can. Lots of what if's and most of what was important was the first 25 minutes. What he says wouldn't surprise me at all.
  • 10 1
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: I'm not going down vote you but you should know his claims are not evidence based. You can find more debunking of his letter than this one:
  • 3 5
 @CarlMega: Yes I read a few of them too. Irony is he could be totally wrong about it and yet if a mutation turns monster in young people "appear" right simply via association with the end result, even if his logic is erroneous.

I'm just gonna eat healthy, not cough on people and get on with my life and see which version I eventually come down with. Or...which version(s) I've had but didn't know I had?

Love thy neighbor.
  • 11 1
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: guess we're doing the down voting thing after all. fair enough - but "could be right" is not at all how evidence based science works. big claim, big evidence. as far as the Dr. you'd be good to know he's selling something...easy to draw some motives here. further he is virtually unpublished and has about zilch in relevant research or studies. but sure... his guess could be right... but let's toss out all the other evidence and previous vaccines and heck the whole body of evidence for this guy.
  • 4 0
 @suspended-flesh: Teach me more about this list! deeply intrigued Smile
  • 1 1
 @korev: I'm quoting ET research. Information has been made available online since the beginning of the pandemic, that sounds strange but is confirmed by terrestrial science weeks or months later. One example, that children can get it. We were really convinced that children couldn't get it, but this source denied that. Also regarding the efficacy of masks and many other things, it has proven to be high quality info regardless of the claimed source.
  • 4 6
 @CarlMega: I always hate the "has an agenda" approach to it all because any of these people in the public space didn't get there without an agenda. But yes, aware dude is selling something like all the rest.

Man, if we only had scientists who didn't have mega-profits on the line every time a need for help pops up. So I completely understand what you're saying. I take them all with a grain of salt for sure.

I think my main "conspiracy theory" is the warning from Michael Olsterholm in his book 4 years ago that something like this was coming. Some of the justification for him saying it is always "Well, we as virologists, etc can see the progressions viruses make over time and see this as a natural progression or evolution of a strain of viruses". But then the paranoid/borderline logical flip of the coin says "Olsterholm knew that was coming because people in his field knew about the Faucci viral strains shipped to China were bound to get loose eventually" aluminum foil conspiracy theory.

It all makes your brain wanna pop Drool Drool Drool
  • 2 4
 @HB208: maybe you don't know what you think you know, do more reading.
  • 6 3
 Newsmax and OANN just reported breaking news that the Coronavirus was created by Trump! He sent it to Ghyna to frame them but it got way outta control apparently. It’s legit #notfakenews!
  • 4 3
 @in2falling: add 50mg of Zink and Quercetin and you have a very good immune system building stack...
  • 3 8
flag mazze (Mar 20, 2021 at 11:13) (Below Threshold)
 @HB208 @CarlMega @cuban-b-can-blow-me @Chuckolicious let me clear this up real quick.
@jclnv is exactly right with his statements.
The phenomenon he is referring to is known as "leaky vaccine" and the existence of this very problem is 100% scientifically established -- the most prominent example being "Marek's Disease", a virus common in chicken and wild birds.
In case of Marek's disease, the virulence of the virus increased up that point, that it was 100% deadly for any non-vaccinated birds or chickens ONLY due to the fact, that the vaccine caused infections to take place asymptomatically. In nature, higher virulent strains would die with their host while less virulent strains would keep spreading until mass immunization sets in over time. This leads to an evolutionary selection of less virulent virus strains over time as a rule of nature. A leaky vaccine, however, does the exact opposite -- it inverts the natural selection, because now even the deadliest strains can spread without their hosts dying.

@CarlMega "Who else in the established medical community holds this position?"
Great question, because this is exactly where the real problem is. Their job is to be critical and address this, but they aren't. Why? Because if they were, they'd lose their job in an instant since such a statement is politically incorrect. Covid has become more of political problem than an actual medical problem.

Make of it what you will. This was my first and last comment regarding this topic.
  • 8 2
 @mazze: delusional.
  • 7 1
 @mazze: LOL you lost all the educated people at “jclnv is exactly right” hahaha.
  • 3 0
 @nojzilla: First you have to purchase one year of Trailforks Pro version, then ask Radek very nicely to see the "Watchlist".
  • 2 5
 @CarlMega Did you google Marek's Disease? I guess not. Like I said make of it what you will Smile
@cuban-b even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn Wink I don't know and I don't care about his other comments, but in this instance, their is a scientific basis to his argument and I just explained it.
  • 6 2
 @mazze: wait, what happened to “ This was my first and last comment regarding this topic”? LOL
  • 2 5
 @cuban-b: Your question seems quite retarded considering the fact that I didn't comment anything further regarding that topic. I merely took a stance on your comment about jclnv, which is unquestionably an entirely different topic.
Apparently you have a thing for pointing your finger at people, don't you? Well, according to your bio you're 9 years old... seems like a pretty accurate estimate of your mental age (:
  • 2 3
 @mazze: Jesus you’re even bad at trolling LOL
  • 4 3
 @cuban-b: funny, I could say the same thing about you LOL
  • 1 2
 @mazze: apparently you have a thing for being a tool don’t you, Fritz?
  • 2 0
 @Mntneer: sorry to hear you're dealing with this - best wishes on full recovery of course! My girlfriend was tested for POTS, they did a tilt table test, but it was inconclusive. Maybe that's a good thing. She gets some dizziness standing up, and when pedaling the bike. Good you are being treated at the Mayo Clinic - best doctors in the world! I have a buddy here who had a cardiac type issue that was treated here, but it came back. He wasn't sure how much bike riding he'd be able to do, but he went over to MN and the Mayo doctors fixed it. Best to you bro.
  • 1 0
 @Fwdvision: thanks man! I hope that your girlfriend gets some answers. For what it’s worth, I did a tilt table test at my local hospital and it came back negative. Mayo does a different array of autonomic nervous system testing in addition to the tilt table, and it’s gives a more accurate picture of POTS and autonomic dysfunction.

I’m actually consider getting myself an ebike so I can do a little more intense climbing. My cardio came back after a few months, but symptoms come and go (sometimes with more intensity than before)
  • 3 5
 @Chuckolicious: @cuban-b:

Here we have one of the worlds most respected medical journals agreeing with my comments. Will you please integrate this new information as it appears you’re “stunningly ill informed”. Maybe contact all the people who downvoted me to correct them also as it appears they were influenced by your lack of understanding of the facts.

  • 5 1
 @jclnv: Oh man, the crank keeps on cranking. And looks like you didn't even read the paper. No, I'm certain you didn't.

And just an aside, the Lancet isn't immune from publishing bunk and then having to retract it:

Carry on, my good crank.

  • 4 4

Yeah I think I’ll take the word of the five scientists involved in the paper over some Pinkbike hack. Sorry chump.

And I quote;

“Brazil suggests a so-called natural immune evasion.2 Also, the dynamics of natural or vaccinal collective immunity in the regions where these variants emerged might have placed substantial pressure on the viral ecosystem, facilitating the emergence of a variant with enhanced transmissibility.

If substantial immune evasion occurs, current vaccines are likely to still offer some benefit to individuals. At the population level, however, they could induce viral selection and escape, making the prospect of achieving herd immunity increasingly remote.”

I rest my case.
  • 5 3
 @jclnv: Ok, so that is why people should get vaccinated and slow the spread of new variants. This is pretty f*cking simple.

Also, you are the Pinkbike hack.
  • 2 4
 @HB208: you’re all retarded hacks
  • 2 0
 @FrancoisXXX69: Yes, I am.
  • 4 5

At this stage you would have to be a total moron to believe that all the interventions from NPI’s to vaccines have achieved anything and overall will likely have led to more deaths than doing absolutely nothing. From the beginning the institutional junk science, based on crap modelling and high cycle PCR false positive testing, have convinced the masses that the government is saving them from viral armageddon. That’s the real eyeopener about this whole thing. How incapable of critical thinking the dumb masses have become. Thinking the media propaganda is factual, believing that governments act in their best interests and are somehow immune from being lobbied by pharmaceutical multinationals. A planet of naive drones. Sad.


“Brazil suggests a so-called natural immune evasion.2 Also, the dynamics of natural or vaccinal collective immunity in the regions where these variants emerged might have placed substantial pressure on the viral ecosystem, facilitating the emergence of a variant with enhanced transmissibility.”
  • 4 2
 @jclnv: The crank keeps cranking on...
  • 2 1
 @Chuckolicious: I kind of want him to keep posting lol
  • 4 3
 @cuban-b: :-D My biggest problem with people like him is they can sway others that are uninformed and/or on the fence. In the olden days, no internet, kooks could only stand on the street corner yelling about the apocalypse. Now they get a world-wide platform and at least a thin veneer of legitimacy. But I guess I'm pissing in the wind with that one.
  • 4 4
 @jclnv: Isn't it strange that the human body can adapt to neutralize a virus in young people so quickly you didn't even know they had it, let alone spread it? And old people's body's are so done with living that you have to hit their system with a double dose of a vaccine to get their body to even react?

But somehow, thinking outside of the herd mentality of only one type of scientific reasoning makes you a nutjob?

Maybe the creators of these vaccines are 100% right and stand the best chance of slowing this virus and those who believe in their effort will be better for it.

But then to belittle those who propose the possibility that circumventing the human immune response and inducing a mass reaction to a single strain via worldwide vaccination might cause unwanted aggressive mutations?

It's not logical to dismiss the latter as possible. Years from now, we still won't have the correct answer. We could all come back to this thread, look at what unfolded and still not have a perfect answer to what is unfolding.

We can't even cure cancers which have been around for far longer than this one virus.

But...oh, we give people these 3 specific emergency approved vaccinations from these 3 companies to the entire populace & Covid-19 is dead and we'll never see it again. Pretending to know it all on the net.
  • 7 2
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: Total hogwash.

First paragraph: Um...what?

Second: code for "alternative science". What is alternative science? Not science, that's what.

Third: Yep, they are right. Millions upon millions of examples already.

Fourth: Rampant anti-science kooks get ridicule. Plain and simple.

Fifth: Blubbldy blah blah to setup a never ending "you never know" vortex.

Sixth: cancer is a condition, made up of various diseases. Many cancers are in fact curable. Cancer survival rates as a whole have increased dramatically. And "cancer" has nothing to do with COVID. So what were you saying again?

Seventh: Nope, nobody ever said that. In fact, these companies, scientists, governments, have all openly said that yearly boosters will likely be necessary and even bundled into your yearly flu shot. How do you miss simple facts like this? Or do you do it intentionally in order to maintain your nutty and dangerous internal narrative?
  • 3 6
 @Chuckolicious: Uninformed. I’m quoting The Lancetlol .

You’re just sucking up the politicised, pharmaceutical lobbied narrative fed to you by the media.
  • 5 3
 @jclnv: Crank keeps on cranking.
  • 3 5

As they say, when they can’t win the debate, they attack the debater.
  • 5 3
 @jclnv: And when the kook won’t leave the stage, they shut his mic. Buh bye-eeeee
  • 5 4
 @Chuckolicious: by "Alternative" I simply mean a viewpoint that isn't that of the herd. Someone warning about strains of a virus taking a different and/or more aggressive pathway through the human body is a possibility. But because it's NOT the thought of the majority, it's somehow wrong.

Science has processes yes, but it's not perfect. You can replicate a study all you want but no guarantees that you get the same result each time. I don't prescribe any one answer because I understand that we're on a giant globe with unlimited variables.

Are people doing the best they can with the information given so far? Sure. Are people going to extremes on this? Heck yes. On every side of the debate.

Are we a giant seething mass of overpopulated mouth breathers? Yep. Vaccines are a "buckshot" approach simply because this virus was on every single continent in less than 30 days.

Yes, they may put a dent in this chaos. But to dismiss the idea that mass vaccination across the globe could backfire? That's naive at best.

I accept all possibilities because we are a global, mobilized populace that can go from Nebraska to the Ukraine in under 48 hours.
  • 5 3
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: OK, look, the whole point of Science is that it is always evolving and self-correcting. It is, however, the best and only way for us to measure the universe around us. The whole "you never know" gambit is just mental-midget-masterbation. Yea, you can basically never prove a negative, congrats Cpt. Obvious. So you want to yank yourself to maintain whatever internal narrative you prefer, scientific consensus be damned, good luck to ya. The death of expertise is the death of our species.
  • 4 2
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: Science is the ultimate put up or shut up. You got a claim? Bring the evidence, bring the studies. We'll check your work...hard. The so-called herd, as you put it, are brilliant researchers who are chomping at bit to dissect every piece of your claim and methods. People who apply their life's work to understanding their field at a level well beyond typical layperson. The evidence drives all.

What we have here - is an outlier. Someone making a claim. A claim that not only contradicts the body of evidence collected thus far - but also one that has no study, no evidence of their own - there is no covid study backing this claim. It also has glaring errors, omissions and by all accounts deceptive. Tailor made to appeal to anti-vax skeptics - likely in appeal to boost someone's own notoriety. Further, this person is making claims on topics outside their field, someone who hasn't published a study in 30 years. This is like me laying claim to beating Bruni - preposterous but ok...suit up buddy, meet you at the track...NO? oh that's what I thought. Bullsh1t.
  • 3 3
 @CarlMega: you lost him at “evidence”. No point trying to convince the uneducated lol.
  • 3 4
 @cuban-b: You really are over-obsessed with stalking me in every forum. #stagefiveclinger You're a creeper and stay out of my Pinkbike Inbox:

"Mar 15, 2021 at 20:40
cuban-b says:
Happy to continue this ruse we have going on. Pb mods have no idea that you ok anned this all along just to stir the pot and increase clicks. They should be thanking you at this this point. Your entire idea of causing havoc and chaos on the boards is working! Let’s keep this up bro Smile
Mar 15, 2021 at 20:45
cuban-b says:
We are homeboys broham! #Maga!!"

Mar 15, 2021 at 21:11
cuban-b-can-blow-me says:
Go away stalker.
Mar 15, 2021 at 21:12
cuban-b says:
Smile . Haha "
  • 6 2
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: CRINGE. The irony of you calling him a creeper. And you just don't have a clue. Ugh, its gotta be exhausting being you. Seriously bud, now gotta mute you too. If ever there was a perpetual motion machine, it'd be cranks like you and Jclnv.
  • 5 2
 @Chuckolicious: awkward, no horse in that race but I'm trying to square this circle: ME: My username is literally naming you and insulting you. Also ME: you are a weird stalker.
  • 4 2
 @Chuckolicious: Imagine him being a *parent* lol
  • 4 5
 @Chuckolicious: Who are you sad sheeple ganging up on now?
  • 4 3
 @jclnv: reading comprehension > you
  • 3 3
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: wait, aren’t you the guy who berated a handicap person because he went on a hiking trail with their wheelchair and you thought it was an e-bike, and then doubled down when you realized it wasn’t an e-bike? LOL
  • 4 0
 Sometimes the original virus turns out to be more palatable than the variants RIP SARS-Waki-19
  • 2 2
 @cuban-b: . Stalker. Creep. Internet harrasser. Go latch onto some other lover. I'm spoken for.
  • 2 2
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: nobody likes you lol
  • 2 2
 @cuban-b: you're obsessed. Stop harassing me.
  • 2 0
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: can u just blow each other and get it over with lol
  • 1 1
 @cuban-b-can-blow-me: how’s it feel getting a taste of your own medicine LOL
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: You’re telling me Michael Bay was right about his pandemic movie released last year??!
  • 3 2
 @gnarlysipes: No, just that the version of the science the two goons above subscribe to isn’t doing so well.
  • 60 10
 By now he approaches the max risk age group, no?
  • 34 9
 He isn't 80
  • 46 4
 Best looking male DH racer ever !!!
  • 9 3
 True, but Warner used to get his fair share of the ladies back in the day!
  • 12 1
 Covid isn't choosy.
  • 101 0
 @McArdle: Rob, is that you?
  • 4 1
 @McArdle: way more than his fair share
  • 3 0
 @McArdle: Nothing like Gary Fischer
  • 9 1
 @vipdick Username checks out
  • 1 0
 @ATXZJ: If I was Warner I’d defo have kept myself an ATX1 dh
  • 1 0
 @DAN-ROCKS: Someone listed to the living eulogy from a few months ago
  • 6 0
 @ullsen: Neither's Warner.
  • 1 0

Rob, tell the story about when you noticed you were going bald again!
  • 3 0
 @suspended-flesh: The ep when Deaks asked him that was incredible
  • 46 13
 Damn. Who would have thought traveling around the world during a pandemic when everyone else is on lock down would make you susceptible to the disease. Couldn't ride your bike closer to home? Either way I hope he gets better. I suspect he may have sometime before the season really gets going this year.
  • 9 6
 was beginning to think i wasn't going to find this comment! amazing how the fanboys/girls swoon for their idols
  • 20 0
 Healing vibes. The exact same happened to me (obviously it's far less important as I'm not a professional athlete), but I was doing 4 workouts a week, got covid which just hit me like a bad cold for a few days. 2 weeks later and I was struggling massively to even do one workout a week as I couldn't catch my breath, even after just walking up the stairs in my house. Now its a month and a half on and I'm back to 4 a week but it took some time!
  • 7 0
 The same happened to me. Mild covid symptoms and the first time going out and do a little walk, my lungs felt really bad, just like a heavy smoker. Glad after 5-6 weeks my lungs were back to "normal"
  • 3 0
 @Tiez: I can relate to the smoker comment. It feels like when we have forest fires. It's been slowly improving, but even 3 months on I feel it during and after a workout.
  • 7 0
 @Tiez: Me and my girlfirned both got COVID and were ill for all month of January. Illness ended at the end of january and it's been month and a half after being sick and wee still can't go up the stairs or go for a nice walk, because lungs still haven't been back to normal, even if we walk and try to workout everyday, progress has been really minimal. Also need to find new job (because I got fired as I was ill, even if they weren't allowed to do it, but still went around the system to do it), but because of how bad with strength etc., I don't know if i'm able to work now.

Be careful people, even if you are being ill with it, it ruins everything after and that actually hurts me more than while I was ill.
  • 25 6
 Hey Americans, want to avoid Greg’s fate? Check your local vaccine eligibility requirements. Two of my 30-something coworkers in California just got their jab by virtue of being medically obese.
  • 2 11
flag withdignityifnotalacrity (Mar 18, 2021 at 8:06) (Below Threshold)
 I am not suggesting "lying" per se, but if your area has a bunch of open slots and you've smoked a cigarette or a joint at some point in your life, go get that appointment. My wife has been booking appointments for older friends and relatives who are flummoxed by the system (or lack thereof), and she complains how hard it is to get an appointment in our area (big east coast city), but how many slots there are in other (more rural, more conservative) locations.
  • 8 17
flag Rageingdh (Mar 18, 2021 at 8:09) (Below Threshold)
 I’m not a fat f*ck. I’ll be fine.
  • 13 3
 @Rageingdh: You can be medically obese and not fat. BMI is a wonderfully rigid measurement.
  • 8 36
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 8:19) (Below Threshold)
 Your comment seems a bit too optimistic regarding the efficacy of vaccines. They do indeed help, but they are not a safeguard. Between the efficacy of a vaccine for the intended strain and the continuous appearances of new strains, a vaccine might be just 30% efficient. Better try to improve the immune system and maintain social distance, of course.
  • 9 2
 @DavidGuerra: Improve the immune system? What the hell are you talking about?
  • 7 26
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 11:41) (Below Threshold)
 @thedeathstar: What the hell am I talking about? Immune system enhancing products like Kefir and others containing Gamma-interferon. Vitamins, moringa, etc. If you don't know what the immune system is, check wikipedia. Also I wonder why the hell my comment is being downvoted for stating plain uncontroversial facts? Is Pinkbike a conspiracy hub now?
  • 15 1
 @DavidGuerra: stop with the pseudo science, and come back when you have better medical sources than Wikipedia and too much time on the internet.
  • 19 1
 @DavidGuerra: I assume your comment received downvotes because you said vaccines "are not a safeguard" - that is literally what vaccines are (even if they're not 100% effective). You also said vaccines "might be just 30% efficient" when science is telling us it's over 90% effective. So I suspect you received downvotes because you ignored all the scientific facts, made up your own and then accused others of being in a conspiracy hub....

You also would have received downvotes because we want you to be wrong. We want the vaccine to be our return to normal. Even if some of what you say turns out to be right - we won't like that.

On the other hand, your comment on boosting immune systems is partly true. Not everyone needs supplements - they are literally extra things that you can take if your nutrition and lifestyle isn't meeting your body's needs. Generally speaking the best way to boost your immune system is eat healthy, drink water, stay active and get good rest.
  • 3 18
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 12:33) (Below Threshold)
 @dirtologist: What are you on about? What pseudo science? And what about wikipedia, I'm not citing wikipedia, I was just telling him to inform himself if he didn't know what I was talking about. And the same goes for you, check whatever credible sources you have and inform yourself, if you don't know what I am talking about.
  • 2 18
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 12:40) (Below Threshold)
 @dirtologist: Also back to my initial comment, since you seem to have jumped on this bandwagon of ignorance. All you need to do is check the the vaccine manufacturer's efficacy data and efficacy scope, and think a little about what that means, to wake up from any crazy illusion that vaccines are going to "save the day".
  • 3 16
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 12:51) (Below Threshold)
 @nzstormer: The effectiveness of the available vaccines ranges from 65 to 90%. But that's for one strain. This virus is mutating constantly. These same vaccines, even if they offer protection against some other strains, will offer zero protection against others. And these will spread just like Covid-19 did initially. That's how I downgraded 65-90% to 30%. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's simple analysis of the facts according to current knowledge. And as for your comment about the immune system, all that you mention is important, but some substances do help the immune system particularly.
  • 10 0
 @DavidGuerra: I actually did read wikipedia based on your comment. Kefir, gamma-interferon and moringa were new to me. Didn't see any efficacy data on those 3 uhhh...substances... against covid though. I'll take my vaccine and its 62-95% efficacy rate against the most common covid variants, thank you.

If enough of us take the vaccine quickly enough it really will go away. Don't hear much about smallpox or polio outbreaks these days now do you?
  • 8 0
 @DavidGuerra: where are you getting your 30% efficiency figure from? Trials for Pfizer and Moderna had 95% efficacy compared to the non-vaccinated population. Israel, which has by far the highest vaccination rates in the world and good nationwide tracking data is showing Pfizer is 97% effective in preventing symptomatic covid (compared to non-vaccinated population) and 94% effective in preventing asymptomatic covid. This is absolutely the thing that will save the day if enough people get vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. Stop spreading nonsense.
  • 1 0
 @thedeathstar: like most of our body, the immune system CAN be more efficient with nutrition
  • 2 11
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 13:12) (Below Threshold)
 @bocomtb: Funny how some are using my mention of wikipedia to dismiss my comment because wikipedia is unreliable, while others dismiss it because wikipedia doesn't support it. Haha. There's little reason to laugh, though, because this virus is mutating. How would you infuse me with your optimism, taking into account the development of new strains which are more infectious, more lethal, more difficult to test, and for which the current vaccines don't work? We are actually at the beginning of the real Covid crisis, all we have been through so far was just a little warm-up.
  • 14 0
 @DavidGuerra: Again, you're making things up and stating them as facts - stop it. You "downgraded" it to 30% - what qualifies you to do that, what lab results support that, what was the situational analysis you performed, what studies are you referencing, who has checked your facts and compared them to their lab results? You can't do a "simple analysis" and come up with the correct answer. That's the definition of pseudo science, and the basis for many internet conspiracies.

I honestly wouldn't have cared about your comment until you started accusing others of being a conspiracy hub.
  • 4 15
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 13:21) (Below Threshold)
 @nzstormer: Come on, it's just an estimation. Doesn't matter if it's 30, 40 or 20%. It's less than the efficacy rate of the vaccines, because this efficacy rate only refers to one strain and is useless against others. Even if a vaccine is effective against many strains, but innefective against one in particular, that one will spread just like Covid initially did. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just analysis of facts and extrapolation based on the way things have been developing so far.
  • 13 0
 @DavidGuerra: Actually it does matter, it all matters, 10% of the population matters, facts matter. You've said enough to prove that you're making stuff up - hopefully that's enough for people to ignore your comments.
  • 1 14
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 14:11) (Below Threshold)
 @nzstormer: What the hell are you on about? Am I making up that new strains are appearing, for which existing vaccines are ineffective? That's all I'm saying. These are facts, why are you not considering them? It didn't click in yet?
  • 6 0
 @DavidGuerra: where do I get me some Gamma-interferon? Sounds sciency
  • 4 1
 @DavidGuerra: Efficacy rates for each vaccine are based on geographic location. You could assume that everyone in that location only had one strain but odds are that multiple strains are circulating.

It is unlikely that the virus will rapidly evolve such that the existing vaccines becoming completely ineffective and the whole world will need to lock itself down again. The virus will mutate, but the vaccines will be updated to match. So you'll need another jab in a year or so, just like we do with the flu already. I think most of us understand that a yearly Covid jab is going to be a reality for a long time to come.
  • 5 1
 if being medically obese is a legitimate way to move up the queue for the vaccine, doesn't that mean about 90% of us Americans qualify?
  • 1 5
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 18, 2021 at 16:02) (Below Threshold)
 @blackpudding: Gamma-interferon is an immune-strengthening substance that is present in yogurt, kefir and other products that are produced from the fermentation of milk. At present, as far as I know it's still not being sold in concentrated form.
  • 3 4
 @bocomtb: Yes, we will be chasing the virus's tail for a good while still.
  • 7 0
 @DavidGuerra: the production of INFg by virus-recognising T cell is also stimulated by the vaccines, so go get yourself vaccinated if you aren't already to get some sweet sweet interferon gamma. Given the tightly-packed structure of viruses it's impossible for them to drastically change their sequence (or they lose their form) so the vaccines targeted against the whole sequence (like the Pfizer one) will pretty much always be effective - lots of antigens to target and the virus can't change them all
  • 2 8
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 19, 2021 at 5:18) (Below Threshold)
 @blackpudding: I'm not particularly keen on getting vaccinated. Maybe later when the current trials on the world's population have provided more efficacy and safety data. Although hopefully there would be some group immunity by then, which would also reduce the need for getting vaccinated. So it's about seeing how it goes with the willing guinea pigs for now, and trying to maintain my body's defenses up so the virus isn't even allowed in.
  • 2 6
flag MikeGruhler (Mar 19, 2021 at 6:41) (Below Threshold)
 @DavidGuerra: Don't bother man. There not worth the effort. It's like mentioning that it's like the flu but has a higher mortality rate. Same symptoms, same causes of death but the kicker is that we don't record flu deaths. We make an estimate based on positive lab Flu deaths could easily be 4x what's recorded given the way it kills people, just my opinion but based on scientific and publicly available data.
  • 4 2
 @oldmanhucking: you would think so considering that something around 70-80% of the deaths from covid in America are people who are obese. It's a very unfortunate fact and probably why are numbers are so high.
  • 1 1
 @MikeGruhler: I might side with you on the reluctance to get vaccinated, but not on the outlook about this virus. Going through the symptoms can be fine, but it can also be not fine at all and cause very bad and lasting effects. And either way, even if you don't have symptoms right now or have very light symptoms, you can get them at any point in the future because the virus stays with you forever. No, this virus is not to be taken lightly at all, it's really pernicious.
  • 4 1
 @MikeGruhler: We don't record flu deaths...estimates...huh? Got some credible links for that?
  • 2 1
 @MikeGruhler: Couldn't find any data for that claim either. Help me out and post some?
  • 5 0
 @DavidGuerra: Pretty robust data now: 100's of millions of people, many months, international, etc. Just wondering what bar you've set for yourself?
  • 1 4
 @Chuckolicious: The pool is large but the long term effects remain unknown. Only time is missing.
  • 3 0
 @DavidGuerra: Like I asked, what is the bar you have set for yourself?
  • 1 5
flag DavidGuerra (Mar 19, 2021 at 8:55) (Below Threshold)
 @Chuckolicious: I don't know, don't know if I'll get it, why are you so interested? I just hope I'm not forced to, to travel for instance.
  • 1 3
 @Chuckolicious: One thing is for sure, I will follow the same precautions whether I get it or not, because getting it doesn't really protect me 100%. And everyone should be aware of this. This is also a reason why excepting from quarantine those who get it upon entering a country with such restrictions is absolutely nonsensical. You either quarantine or you don't, getting off the hook those who only have a higher probability of not having the virus makes no sense. It's a loser's game.
  • 2 1
 @Chuckolicious: And just to add, requiring testing to enter a country or any other restricted space is good. Requiring a quarantine is a special assurance measure, but letting go of this assurance for a group of people who might well be carrying the virus is really nonsensical.
  • 1 4
 @Chuckolicious: All the details about the people who died from covid are all on the cdc website. Do your own research.
  • 6 0
 @DavidGuerra: I'm interested because you posted about it. Figured you were looking for reasonable discourse since you did? I like to ask people the reasons behind their hesitancy. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. Jab me with whatever you can get in my arm the quickest. And If I can get one of each brand, hook me up! I say that somewhat jokingly, but I do have 100% confidence in the offerings at hand and the data already compiled. I guess I do think that people should set some kind of goals/standards/triggers for themselves so as not to just go wherever the wind takes them. But then that means I'm basically telling them to do some real DD, and some people don't like the idea of homework, even if it's in their best interest.

As to your other points about travel and stuff, that's not really on my personal radar right now. But I can't fault a country for imposing a vaccine requirement on entrants if they choose. It's their country. And if a prospective visitor doesn't like it, they can spin the globe and pick another. On the other hand, reducing or removing quarantine for those who have their shots is gaining scientific validity. See the recent Israeli studies. While not 100%, it's becoming clear that the vaccine is in the 90% range of actually preventing infection. Measles vaccine is virtually 100%, but it's turning out the MNRA vaccines are pretty darn close. For those not following, there are vaccines that actually prevent you getting infected, like measles, and vaccines that bolster your immune system so when you are infected you fight it off much more easily (like the flu vaccine). First kind, you never get it so you can never spread it. Second kind, you can still get it and spread it. MNRA Covid vaccines seem now to be mostly the first kind, which is pretty f*cking amazing. Science FOR THE WIN!
  • 7 0
 @DavidGuerra: Vaccines work a lot better when everyone gets them. At least from an epidemiological perspective.

You seem to have a good understanding of your own health, virus transmission, and are willing to take other actions to prevent yourself from becoming a virus spreader. Unfortunately, I do not think that describes the majority of those who refuse vaccines. Not in the USA anyways.
  • 2 0
 @MikeGruhler: So which is it, the link you gave, which I thank you for, or ignore the link and do my own DD?
  • 4 1
 @MikeGruhler: Sooo... you claimed:

"something around 70-80% of the deaths from covid in America are people who are obese."

Now, are you sure about that? Maybe want to take another look before giving your final answer?
  • 2 6
flag mazze (Mar 20, 2021 at 11:32) (Below Threshold)
 @bocomtb: "So you'll need another jab in a year or so, just like we do with the flu already." -- With the marginal exception that a flu jab is given on a free-will basis and it's mostly elderly who choose it, while in case of covid you're forced to take an experimental vaccine. Sorry, but I do not consent.
Also, please explain to me why you need ME to take the vaccine in order to protect YOU, if you yourself already are protected by the vaccine (that you chose to get)? It makes no sense.
  • 1 2
 @Chuckolicious: the link was about how they "report" flu cases/deaths.
  • 1 3
 @Chuckolicious: Are you sure?? As far as obesity and covid are concerned here's another link. For someone trying to discredit a person and there information you sure don't know how to Google something. All this information is found damn near effortlessly if you actually look. There's so much information on this topic it's comical that you're even attempting to dismiss it.
  • 2 0
 @MikeGruhler: Oh man, I have you the opportunity to catch your extreme gaff, and ya didn’t. Sigh...
  • 5 1
 @mazze: If you don't know about herd immunity, have a read: Otherwise, covid becomes endemic in the population and we'll always have to accept restrictions to our lifestyle. Plus maybe people just don't want you to unnecessary get sick (and burden the healthcare system)?
  • 3 2
 @blackpudding: Oh believe me, I know the term quite well. However, you should consider researching the previous definition of herd immunity before it was altered on the WHO website (;
Regarding your second sentence: a vaccine that only stops symptoms but not actual infections, which - according to the WHO - might very well be the case for covid vaccines, does not help in that respect. On the contrary, it makes the problem even worse. And let me remind you, that this question is not yet scientifically determined. Thus, at this point in time with only very limited knowledge about the potential consequences, a mass vaccination actually poses an inherent risk of making matters worse.
Now to my favorite shill argument: "unnecessary burden the healthcare system"?
What about the burden of potential side effects from experimental vaccines? You do realize that governments all over the world had to sign exclusion of liability waivers to pharma companies in case of potential health problems, meaning that tax-payers have to fully carry the financial burden, don't you? So as long as no medium or long turn effects of an experimental mass vaccination are established, this argument is pure hypocrisy. The fact that the Astra-Zeneca vaccine has been paused or banned in multiple countries by now, shows that concerns about side-effects are very tangible and cannot be dismissed as conspiracies.
Now, I could go on and ridicule your financial burden argument even more by saying that - according to your logic - smoking (or mountain-biking for that matter) should be illegal, too, as they pose an unnecessary financial burden on the healthcare system. Clearly, you as a mountain biker are more prone to injuries than the avg. populace, aren't you?
  • 2 0
 @mazze: You get a psychological and fitness benefits from mountain biking. Do you get an equivalent benefits from getting COVID? To me, that is the distinction between burdening the health care system with a mountain biking injury versus burdening it by getting a preventable illness. Mountain biking gets you long term health and happiness with risk of hospitalization. COVID gets you no benefits, also with risk of hospitalization.

It must be noted that you appear to trust governments when they pause the vaccine. But not when they approve it.

I will acknowledge your point that the existing COVID vaccines have not yet been proven to reduce transmission. My interpretation here is that it is much more difficult to prove reduction in transmission versus improved health outcome. But eradication of smallpox and polio, and near eradication of measles, suggests that vaccines generally reduce viruses ability to reproduce themselves.

Is anyone forcing you to take the vaccine? I don’t think they are. And if 400 million doses administered world wide with publicly disclosed side effects doesn’t convince you of vaccine safety it’s doubtful that anything will.
  • 3 2
 @mazze: Didn’t I already point you to the Israeli study that seems to show a 80 percent and better PREVENTION OF INFECTION? Measles vaccine is virtually 100% prevention of infection, but the MNRA vaccines are pretty darn close.
  • 3 3
 @bocomtb: Unsurprisingly you chose to ignore my example of smoking. But, fair enough, I take the bait. Let us narrow it down and argue only about a hypothetical ban of "gravity disciplines" in mountain biking, then? Your fitness and health benefits don't apply here in comparison to xc or road cycling or any other endurance sports like swimming or running, while your risk of serious injury is undeniably significantly higher. Becoming paraplegic, for example, amounts to costs of roughly $69,000 per year with the first year averaging at over $400,000 alone. Assuming that this kind of injury typically happens to the younger, more fearless athletes between 20 and 25 years of age, let us do the math.
Average life expectancy in developed countries is about 83 years, so 83 - 25 (conservative estimate) gives about 58 years multiplied by $69,000 (again ignoring the significantly higher first year costs). This aggregates to about 4 million dollars of financial burden in case of a serious spinal injury - only to satisfy your personal desire for adrenaline rush. Therefore, I conclude that Freeride and Downhill mountain biking should be legally prohibited. Change my mind.
(Disclaimer: obviously, this doesn't depict my opinion but I'm taking this position purely for arguments' sake).

Your assumption regarding my inconsistency towards trusting the government is false and it also does not apply to my stance at all. Approving vaccines and making them obligatory for everyone (i.e. denying me the right to refuse it or discriminating against me by excluding me from social or recreational activities, or, restricting my personal freedoms and mobility) is two entirely different pair of shoes.

You acknowledging my point regarding the safety and efficacy of existing COVID vaccines should be enough to agree that _mandatory_ vaccines cannot be justified at all - and this was precisely what this argument was about, because my question was why YOU need ME to take the vaccine in order to protect YOU.
Also, regarding your personal interpretation of risks and benefits, I'd kindly ask you to find my comment addressing the well established medical problem known as "leaky vaccine" in one of my comments above (check below threshold if you can't find it).
Comparing the eradication of measles and other diseases with quickly mutating viruses like Influenza or Corona is entirely missing the point. While a measles vaccine protects you for an entire lifetime, constantly changing viruses like Corona or Influenza will require new vaccinations on a regular basis and probably have only limited efficacy, hence the "yearly" flu-shot. Just think about it: 7 billion people requiring a yearly jab sounds an awful lot like a tax-paid ATM machine for Big Pharma.

Anyway, I appreciate you engaging a constructive debate! Unfortunately, this seems to be exception nowadays.
  • 2 3
 @Chuckolicious: not that I know of. You must've been addressing someone else. I'm happy to read that study myself, but if the scientific methods are anywhere close as bad as in the original Pfizer efficacy study, then please don't waste my time lol. Because that study is not only highly disputable in their mathematical efficacy calculation, but it is literally a blatant sham and a rather poor excuse for a scientific paper. I'm wondering, have you ever read it?
  • 3 1
 @mazze: you are the mayor of tinfoil hat land. Their "mathematical efficacy calculation" was to count sick people and report it. Works as an endpoint for me.
  • 1 0
 @mazze: My position, that it benefits the entire population if everyone takes the vaccine, remains firm. Do you have a better method in mind to reduce COVID transmission? Preferably one that doesn't require being shut-in for months at a time? See key point #3. Definitely points to YOU taking the vaccine helping to protect ME as well. I do not expect you to trust our American CDC. But that is why my position is firm. I would be glad to read any information you can provide from an equivalently-staffed organization (eg, full of credentialed scientists). Or you can share your own credentials. I'm just a snow-bound mountain biker.

You don't need to answer publicly but here's a though experiment: under what circumstances would you accept a vaccine?
  • 2 0
 @mazze: Well two seconds of google will give you what you need. The rest of what you just typed is unabashed idiocy. Respectfully of course.
  • 2 0
 @mazze: you people - and by “you people” I mean conspiracy theory nutjobs - were way more fun when you were focused on flat earth and Bigfoot hahahaha
  • 2 3
 @cuban-b: funny how you're still trying to be part of a conversation in which nobody is actually talking to you. Don't you have friends? Also interesting how you're trying to denounce me by arbitrarily linking me to some retarded theories. Polemic straw man fallacies literally straight from the communist handbook for guerilla tactics.
I could probably destroy you quite effortlessly in any serious debate even in my second language.
  • 1 2
 @mazze: whatever you say Freidrich (you cant see my but im making the wanking motion with my hand)
  • 3 0
 @cuban-b: careful man, he might effortlessly destroy you
  • 18 2
 What? Where are all the smart comments I was expecting?! Perhaps the GOAT can persuade some of them to reconsider.
  • 12 0
 i've had it and my experience post covid is the same. My heart rate rockets up very quickly , it's getting better 2 weeks after the all clear but have only just returned to the gym and very mild xc skiing. Just hope i'll be back to normal in time for bikes season
  • 38 0
 Good to hear but how’s your dad?
  • 15 0
 Get well soon, Greg. Everyone take care of yourselves...this shit ain't over yet.
  • 14 2
 PSA to all the people here to argue about Covid-19:
We've been doing this for a year. Anyone who doesn't understand the gravity of the situation yet won't understand it ever.

Best wishes to Greg; it'll take a lot more than covid to keep that guy down.
  • 7 22
flag Rageingdh (Mar 18, 2021 at 10:50) (Below Threshold)
 I’m pretty sure it’ll take a lot more than covid to keep 99% of the people on planet earth down.
  • 12 4
 @Rageingdh: f*ck off.
  • 2 14
flag Rageingdh (Mar 18, 2021 at 10:59) (Below Threshold)
  • 9 2
 @Rageingdh: Hey, I don't want to argue and I know it's not my job to educate you but I figured you could use a hand.
Check this out:
At 2.7 million deaths worldwide in the last year, by the 2019 numbers Covid-19 would be the 4th or 5th leading cause of death worldwide. No arguments, just some real deal facts. And that, my friend, is why you can f*ck off.
  • 6 11
flag Rageingdh (Mar 18, 2021 at 14:26) (Below Threshold)
 @fullfacemike: you are aware that there 7.8 billion people on earth right now, right? The first sentence in you article states that a grand total of 55.4 million people died worldwide in 2019 from everything, not just the rona. That’s much less than 1% of the world population. You obviously don’t understand the gravity of the situation, but keep an open mind and maybe one day you’ll see the light.
  • 11 1
 @Rageingdh: It's true, less than 1% of the world population dies each year from all causes combined. By your logic we shouldn't be concerned about people dying at all? I'm definitely not going to argue with you anymore on this since I plan on coming at you with more statistics and you clearly don't understand statistics and/or are a total sociopath so... Back to work for me, sorry. Good luck. Peace! And remember to f*ck off, don't forget!
  • 2 0
 @Rageingdh: kinda frustrating to experience how unfruitful it is to take a critical stance about something even though we're considered a like minded family of mountain bikers, isn't it?!
Obvious evidence of incapacity of the human society.
3 simple and objective observations in this thread:
1) having a well-founded opinion opposing the mainstream is not tolerated.
2) mainstream supporters clearly are the aggressors in the comment section.
3) mainstream supporters consider themselves better informed and superior in their cognitive ability while actually being unable to engage in any substantial debate.
Conclusion: propaganda works well and NPCs act exactly as intended.
  • 2 0
 @mazze: your not wrong. I didn’t say anything that wasn’t true and I wasn’t rude or condescending. That just seems to drive mainstream supporters crazy. My favorite part of that conversation was when @fullfacemike threatened to send me more statistics but doesn’t because I won’t understand them but the one statistic he did send me actually proved that my first statement was true. Who knows if he even realizes that or not. I think that a lot of the mainstream supporters probably aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer. He is really good at insulting people and name calling though, so there’s that.
  • 2 0
 @Rageingdh: Unfortunately, my experience is that even the most intelligent people are simply blinded, lead by the illusion to be well informed by what they believe are functioning and critical media outlets and so-called "expert opinions". In their busy lives most people don't have the time nor the willingness to stop for a minute, think critically and form an opinion based on logical thoughts and rationality. In fact, they don't even feel the need for it. They have a sense of trust that governments and established institutions are taking care of them and only have their best interest in mind - all they need to do is obey, follow the rules and regulations and all will be just fine. We are bombarded by information and there is no time to verify anything, let alone everything. Also, the information is repeated at such a high frequency that it just manifests in our minds as true whether we like it or not - even if we'd know better. It's a purely subconscious process, a feeling, that ultimately trumps cognitive thought. It is exactly how and why advertising works. The underlying psychological processes are scientifically well established. What I find shocking, however, is the fact that people not only absorb the narrative as the general opinion, but that they actually attack and defame anyone who deviates from it. Most of the time it begins with some prominent experts that are publicly humiliated and defamed, and anyone who holds the same opinion as those "crazy" counter-narrative guys goes down with them. If 6 months or 10 years later everything these guys said turns out true, it doesn't matter anymore, because that guy's image is ruined anyway... and what's done is done. A lot of prominent examples come to mind who have been treated this way. There is a nice German term for this phenomenon of absorbing a narrative as your own opinion... it's called "betreutes Denken" which roughly translates to "supervised thinking". Democracy, in the truest sense of the word, means the power is with the populace. And science has never been about consensus, but about constructive dissent. Most people have not yet realized that both these principles have long been inverted and couldn't be farther from the truth. We truly live in Orwellian times.
  • 1 1
 @Rageingdh: Yea, honestly I did realize that you read the numbers correctly and on the surface that does seem to undermine my assumption that you may not understand statistics all that well. The thing is that reading the numbers and doing basic arithmetic demonstrates only a low-level of understanding while drawing a logical and meaningful conclusion is what most would consider to be a true understanding of the subject. Saying "less than one percent of people die each year from all causes combined" is both a true statement and one that accurately represents the situation so you crushed it there. To posit "thus we don't need to be concerned about this new significantly large and preventable component of those deaths" is where the logical and meaningful understanding part appears break down for you and we arrive at my true concern, that I voiced, which is that you're a sociopath. Admittedly, I had to make a few assumptions on your stance since most of what I got to work with was "lol" and I pray this is a huge misunderstanding but I feel like I've made my position clear and you've had ample opportunities to make yours clearer, which in a way you did by continuing to argue. Consider that the reason you keep feeling attacked is that people are f*cking dying at the hands of apathy from folks who have it entirely in their power to care and take action to even a minimal degree but they refuse out of principle or expend energy, as you have, to convince others to be part of the problem. Over and out.
  • 2 0
 @fullfacemike: If I may, I'd like to take a short stance to some of your imputations.
You literally insinuate that people are dying because of folks who "refuse to take care or take action" (referring to us?). You're basically saying nothing of substance there, except that it is our fault... but not how or why? Please elaborate what exactly the point is that you're trying to make.
If you're referring to the lack of willingness to take an experimental vaccine, then I have to decidedly dismiss your argument -- because taking it poses an inherent health risk, so it should be up to the individual to decide whether or not to take it, wouldn't you agree? The Astra Zeneca vaccine would not have been banned in several countries if there wasn't a potential health risk.
Also, if there is 1% of the entire global population that has increased risk of dying compared to the other 99%, then it is only logical, that this tiny minority has to limit its exposure to those risks -- not the other 99%, however. Because risking to destroy the entire world economy, hundreds of millions of jobs, food security, energy supply and the financial existence of the broad human population doesn't seem like anything worth trading in to protect that 1% whose life expectancy is very limited anyway, does it? A society needs solidarity, but solidarity has its limits. The limit is where the marginal cost is outweighing the marginal benefit, and this certainly is the case here. So much to common sense.

Now let's interpret the data:
You're postulating that COVID deaths pose a "significantly large and preventable component" of deaths.
Firstly, the US has an infection-death-rate of 0.16% (total deaths / total cases). Sweden, which had exactly ZERO mask-mandates nor any sort of lockdown, features a infection-death-rate of 0.13%. Switzerland, masks only in shops and lockdown only for 2-3 weeks total, features a infection-death-rate of 0.11%.
The same applies to the total number of deaths per 100,000 inhabitants, which is 162 for the US, 131 for Sweden, 109 for Switzerland... and only 23 for Belarus (infection-death-rate 0.023%). Belarus, again a country giving zero f*cks about masks or lockdowns whatsoever.
I guess we can agree that these numbers are NEITHER "significantly large" NOR does the data show that it was in any way easily "preventable" by any sort of lockdown measures.
Hence, your remarks are literally nothing but a meaningless cluster of words.
  • 2 0
 @fullfacemike: this is barely worth my time but I feel like I should point out some inconsistencies. You pull a quote out of thin air that I never said, "thus we don't need to be concerned about this new significantly large and preventable component of those deaths" and then presume that I’m a sociopath because of a quote that you pulled out of thin air that I never said. That seems odd to me. Almost like your trying to put words in my mouth to make me look bad. Next you said I kept arguing with you, but I never made one argument with you. I simply stated that the statistics you sent me validated my first comment. Again that seems like your trying to insinuate something that isn’t true. Lastly, when someone via the internet tells me to f*ck off it validates the maturity level of said individual reassuring me that it’s barely worth my time.
  • 3 0
 @Rageingdh: I've been stewing on this for two days and maybe not for the reason you'd think. You're right that I'm being an a*shole. While I still have my reservations about this whole topic, I have not been conducting myself very well at all and for that I apologize. I failed to take my own advice and became the antagonist, both here and elsewhere. I hope you're having more constructive dialogues than this with other folks and I'm going to take a break from this place to reassess how I treat other people, especially when I disagree with them.
  • 3 0
 @fullfacemike: yo dude, I totally appreciate and accept your apology. I come to pb every day because bikes are fun. I got my first rockhopper in 1991 and have had a mtb ever since, and before that I was into bmx. I guess I’m telling ya that so you know how special I think riding bikes is and how much I appreciate all the good times I’ve had with them. I wanna live to be 100 years old and ride bikes the whole time. It may or may not be an E-Bike when I get that old but I bet the battery technology will be ridiculous by then, but that’s a whole other topic.
I do appreciate the comment section here on pb but mostly because of all the bike knowledge that is on here. I love that I can ask a question about bikes and someone on here will have the answer. There’s people that are way more into bikes than me and I think that’s awesome.
What really bums me out though in the bike community is how so many people would up vote the comments that you wrote me and at the same time down vote mine to the threshold. It’s too bad that all those people will probably not see the second half of our conversation, but we are definitely living in some crazy times right now and I can’t blame people for getting passionate about something that they care about. The knowledge and entertainment in the comments here still out weighs the bad stuff, for me at least. So I’ll continue to spread the love, knowledge, and entertainment throughout our awesome worldwide biker community. I hope that you’ll be able to do the same as well.
Have an awesome day. Peace!!!
  • 3 0
 @mazze: I wanted to thank you for jumping into the conversation. You are a very informed individual and it makes me feel like I’m not such an outcast here in the pb community when someone as eloquent and educated as yourself is not afraid to have an opinion that opposes the majority. It’s crazy to me that an individual can do nothing but make a factual statement in here and then get down voted to oblivion for it but that’s the world we live on for the time being. I for sure don’t let it bother me as I am no stranger to the threshold and I’m sure the same is true for you as well. I really try to only say things that are true and factual as that’s just my nature.
Anyway, thanks again brother, and ride on!!!
  • 20 9
 Why must all the dumbass comments come from my countrymen, why?!!?

Anyway, hope the GOAT doesn't have any long term issues. Can't wait till everyone gets the full vax treatment and we start getting back to normal.
  • 43 3
 If you don’t care about public education than you get an uneducated public.
  • 3 0
 @speed10: #FeatureNotaBug
  • 2 1
 @speed10: gets not get
  • 2 0
 @emptybe-er: in what southern state?
  • 5 1
 @speed10: "Public" education is why globally we are in this mess on so many levels.
  • 7 0
 @speed10: when the people in power benefit from an uneducated populace it isn't surprising to see public education suck.

The U.S. has some excellent private schools though.
  • 25 13
 Waiting for the deniers to pipe up.
  • 47 11
 #Murica is just waking up.
  • 10 34
flag Rageingdh (Mar 18, 2021 at 6:04) (Below Threshold)
 I sure would like to know if he was wearing his mask the whole time he was there.
  • 9 27
flag WoollybackPaul (Mar 18, 2021 at 6:11) (Below Threshold)
 Your account should be suspendered for that comment.
  • 10 1
 @Rageingdh: Yep. The whole time. He didn't even take it off to eat or drink.
  • 28 10
 @PTyliszczak: For sure, they're out there and many of them are in #Murica.... That said, they've moved on and are now too consumed with the idea that DT is going to be reinstalled to the White House by extra-dimensional beings.... should be happening any day now.
  • 2 3
 @PTyliszczak: Land of the Brave, home of the Free
  • 4 1
 @WoollybackPaul: who are you addressing?
  • 12 3
 It does mess you up a bit. I had it in August 2020 and was back on the bike gently at the end of that month. I am now fitter than I was before I had it.
  • 29 1
 If only everyone that got COVID could be so lucky!!
  • 8 0
 @SoddenDeath: Yes, there seems to be a huge variation in severity. My wife and I both had it at the same time and we are in our 50's. She bounced back even more quickly than I did.
  • 6 7
 @headshot: considering your ages I'm glad to hear you both came through it okay... It must have been a scary experience for you guys knowing full well what 'could' happen given the experience of thousands of others in your age group
  • 11 1
 @SoddenDeath: They're only in their 50's!!! They're not in a retirement home, sheesh! (no, I'm not being sensitive. . . . yes, I am in my 50's)
  • 6 2
 @SoddenDeath: Could have......could have been killed by heart attack, stroke, flue, car accident. Could have has filled our screens, destroyed or finances, elected dictators whom destroyed the federation and led to rampant mental illness. But didn't. Dont be such a fear monger, 4 variant "outbreaks" in Australia, no community spread. Could have again. Absolve fear mongering overreaction of all time. What about in England and Italy and the US. Absolutely appauling streamlined and ineffective public health, 15% beds available only as a business model and then a slightly aggressive virus and pandemic. No wonder overrun. Don't trust media. Don't trust pollies. Sometimes old people and the unfit and that has what has made the human so resilient. Its Darwin. Remember science.
  • 10 0
 I didn't know goats could get covid
  • 23 2
 Well my neighbour's goat died during the pandemic. I mean it was attacked by a wolf, but the death certificate said Covid so it's clearly all a conspiracy. That was for the American who wanted stupid comments from places other than the US.
  • 6 2
 @BenPea: America is sleeping-in today. Maybe the recent time change has had an effect or we're out at Mal Wart spending the Stimmy check on popsicles.
  • 1 0
 @suspended-flesh: You mean TVs?
  • 3 1
 @robito: If they don't have one in the outhouse, yet, by all means! Fox News isn't going to watch itself.
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: thanks pal
  • 1 0
 @suspended-flesh: stimmy checks... at least with legalization half of the total won't end up in mexico.

@flaflow: anytime, American brothers and sisters.
  • 3 0
 @BenPea: We haven't smoked Mexican weed out West since the 70s. No need. They do have the best Chinese Fentanyl, though. That shit is killer and is the real Chinese flu.
  • 2 0
 @suspended-flesh: are you telling me Cheech and Chong aren't doing that run anymore?
  • 7 0
 so finally we know who brought the "Ischgl-mutation" to south africa... oh wait...
  • 6 0
 terrible circumstances, but I do appreciate any content that gives insight into how pro athletes approach things like injury and illness so I'll be following along!
  • 1 0
 Check out @pedalingheroine on Instagram. Irish track cyclist who had covid and took a bit to bounce back. She actually realized she had it due to her Whoop I think.
  • 4 0
 Dude, I know I'm way down in the comments but, I had covid and it sucks, I'm lucky because I survived, people forget the part about there is a death threat. I still get those days where I'm exhausted, I'm a fit guy and I still struggle! It's been 4 months. keep pushing Greg, surely the body can adapt, its a great thing!!
  • 3 1
 We hear you, man. That sounds terrible and I wish you a full recovery as soon as possible. People are not taking this sh1t seriously enough.
  • 5 1
 Shouldn't have travelled! It's a global pandemic. I'm sorry but it's selfishness like that that ultimately stopping the rest of us from having a more normal life. Wyn Masters, Danny Hart etc are doing the same, one of the Trek dudes too... Some for testing which is more of a legit reason (but still irresponsible and certainly not essential ) and some to boost their social media profiles... Either way, it's completely selfish and irresponsible and doesn't demonstrate the same cut backs that the rest of us are having to make. There, said it.
  • 4 1
 I wish Greg a full recovery and look forward to watching him race and win again in the future, but I can quite get over the "while on a trip to Europe" bit, nice to get away I suppose if you can even during a global pandemic.
  • 8 6
 SA seems to be a real shit show for Covid. Pretty much all my family and many of my friends got it but mostly because they gave zero F's. I could see them all on IG hanging out, going to bars, parties etc zero protection. Many live a stone's throw away from where I think Greg lives. Too many people worldwide that aren't taking it seriously which will just prolong the issue.
  • 3 1
 Two guys on my team got Covid last fall. One in October and one in November. Both have been advised to cut training to 20% and no intervals ...just zone 2 stuff for 6 months. Rode with a guy who was not heeding this advise and man he was way off his game 4 months after Covid.
  • 1 0
 Wish I had that advice 12 months ago. Good to know the docs are learning.
  • 2 0
 I didn’t exercise for a month post Covid. Mine too was relatively mild but when I returned the HR was through the roof. New max HRs without trying on strava that i may never hit again.
  • 3 1
 Oh my gosh. Hope this is all over soon. It struck so many. Wish you the best and full recovery to blast the trails!!!
  • 3 0
 Hang in there, GOAT. Smart money is still on you in every race.
  • 4 1
 President Magufuli says covid isn't real.
  • 3 0
 The choir that sang to him after his "Covid isn't real" speech believed though.

So did his pall bearers
  • 1 0
 Having had Covid over a month ago doing exercise is still harder than it should be. I imagine it’s worse if your trying to properly train
  • 4 5
 "Long Covid" is just media re-branding of post viral fatigue. I am at the point where Im fine with everbody being scared of their own shadow and hiding inside until the drug companies have made enough money. Trails are nice and uncrowded, works for me.
  • 1 0
 Here I am in lock down, just riding local trails in the weee hours just to avoid the 5 across maskless trail hikers, working remotely! YOLO!
  • 5 3
 Shit is real...I hope it does one for good...
  • 1 0
 Heal up bro! Know a couple of folks who had it, mild symptoms, but had or now have weird secondary symptoms/complications.
  • 2 0
 Get well soon Greg. That is all that needs to be said.
  • 4 4
 Cases in Utah are down to last march levels. There is no hysteria or mass death. I guess bidens grandpa balls really did work wiping this away.
  • 2 0
 God Speed
  • 48 0
 *Goat Speed
  • 6 4
 Keep off the beers Greg
  • 16 0
 you asking nonsense now man...
  • 2 0
 @Lagr1980: Is Lagr the French word for Lager? If so, username checks out.
  • 5 4
 Apparently getting the vaccine helps with long covid symptoms
  • 4 4
 Not surprised after seeing the amount of people who didn't social distance or wear masks at the world cups last summer.
  • 2 0
 Get well Greg!
  • 1 2
 Could this be a strategy to sandbag his opponents? Has to be :-)
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