Greg Minnaar vs Luca Shaw vs Loris Vergier: 3 Santa Cruz V10s Head to Head
Photos: Sven Martin/Santa Cruz Bicycles
With no racing scheduled for the near future, the Syndicate are launching their new colours and bikes virtually instead. The V10 hasn't seen any major overhauls however the team that popularised bigger wheels in downhill racing now has two riders re-introducing 27.5" wheels into the mix. Greg Minnaar is sticking with the full 29er option but his shorter teammates, Luca Shaw and Loris Vergier, have both gone to the mullet set up, with a 29" wheel up front and a 27.5" wheel in the rear on a new frame called the V10 MX. We decided to take all three builds and give them the side-by-side treatment to understand the nuances in the riders' set ups.
About the riders
Frames
All the riders are on Santa Cruz V10s with Greg and Luca on XLs and Loris on a large. Only Luca is riding stock geometry though as Greg and Loris are both using Chris King Buzzwork headsets to give them 8mm extra reach. The Buzzworks was first developed in 2014 with the Syndicate and they've been using them to stretch out V10s for more than half a decade. Going one step further, Greg also extends his chainstays with a specially machined piece that gives him an extra 5mm on the swingarm.
Greg Minnaar
Frame size XL
Adjustments Greg runs an XL frame with the addition of the chainstay extenders he was seen riding last year and an 8mm Buzzworks headset.
Adjustments Greg runs an XL frame with the addition of the chainstay extenders he was seen riding last year and an 8mm Buzzworks headset.
Greg extends his chainstays by +5mm with this custom machined piece.
Luca Shaw
Frame size XL
Adjustments Luca runs a stock XL with no adjustements on either end
Adjustments Luca runs a stock XL with no adjustements on either end
Loris Vergier
Frame size Large
HAdjustments Loris runs a Chris King Buzzworks headset with +8mm of extension
HAdjustments Loris runs a Chris King Buzzworks headset with +8mm of extension
Loris gets +8mm on the top tube length thanks to this Chris King Buzzworks headset
Wheels
The Syndicate have been on 29" wheels longer than anyone on the downhill circuit with Greg now entering his fourth year on the bigger hoops. Both Luca and Loris are taking a small sidestep this year though and will be running a mullet set up on the V10 MX. Luca and Loris's bikes use an entirely new swingarm specific to the mixed wheel design that keeps the geometry the same as the 29ers they were running last year. It also made switching back and forth for testing only about the rear wheel size with no other major variables. Want to know why each rider chose their wheel size? Watch the latest Syndicate vlogs here to get the lowdown.
We tried to get some tyre pressure info from the Syndicate as well but as it varies from track to track, it's tough to give an exact number.
Greg Minnaar
Wheel size 29" front and rear
Tyre Pressure Depends on the track
Inserts No
Tyre Pressure Depends on the track
Inserts No
Luca Shaw
Wheel size 29" front, 27.5" rear
Tyre Pressure Depends on the track
Inserts No
Tyre Pressure Depends on the track
Inserts No
Loris Veriger
Wheel size 29" front, 27.5" rear
Tyre Pressure Depends on the track
Inserts No
Tyre Pressure Depends on the track
Inserts No
Suspension
OK, time to get super dorky. The Syndicate's close relationship with Jordi and the Fox team is no secret and the result are some strikingly different set ups. Bear in mind that these are fine-tuned for the riders' weights, riding style, individual preference and World Cup tracks so emulating them won't get you much further than some very sore arms. But still, that's no reason not to get stuck into the nerdy details on the new Fox suspension below (all clicks are measured from fully closed):
Greg Minnaar
Fork
Fork Pressure 115psiVolume Tokens 5
High-Speed Compression Open
Low-Speed Compression 8
High Speed Rebound 5
Low Speed Rebound 6
Shock
Spring Weight 575lbsHigh-Speed Compression 6
Low-Speed Compression 8
High Speed Rebound 3
Low Speed Rebound 10
Luca Shaw
Fork
Fork Pressure 95psiVolume Tokens 5
High-Speed Compression 7
Low-Speed Compression 8
High Speed Rebound 6
Low Speed Rebound 7
Shock
Spring Weight 550lbsHigh-Speed Compression 7
Low-Speed Compression 8
High Speed Rebound 2
Low Speed Rebound 12
Loris Vergier
Fork
Fork Pressure 86psiVolume Tokens 5
High-Speed Compression 15
Low-Speed Compression 8
High Speed Rebound 6
Low Speed Rebound 7
Shock
Spring Weight 525lbsHigh-Speed Compression 10
Low-Speed Compression 12
High Speed Rebound 3
Low Speed Rebound 11
Contact Points
The contact points are one of the few areas of the bikes where we see some spec changes between the riders. Greg and Luca are running Shimano Saint brakes but Loris breaks the mould, and runs XTR. There are also some different bar widths and rises to analyse.
Greg Minnaar
Bar width 800mm
Bar rise 20mm
Brakes Shimano Saint - 203mm rotors
Stem Length 50mm
Bar rise 20mm
Brakes Shimano Saint - 203mm rotors
Stem Length 50mm
Luca Shaw
Bar width 790mm
Bar rise 30mm
Brakes Shimano Saint - 203mm rotors
Stem Length 50mm
Bar rise 30mm
Brakes Shimano Saint - 203mm rotors
Stem Length 50mm
Loris Vergier
Bar width 790mm
Bar rise 20mm
Brakes Shimano XTR - 203mm rotors
Stem Length 50mm
Bar rise 20mm
Brakes Shimano XTR - 203mm rotors
Stem Length 50mm
Details
Greg Minnaar
Luca Shaw
Loris Vergier
Author Info:
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www.pinkbike.com/news/the-fantabulous-loris-vergier-soundboard-uses-all-the-sounds-he-makes-during-suspension-set-up.html
Bar rise and steerer stack both effect reach and stack differently.
they increased the negative volumein the new evol air spring for 2021 so now runs more pressure than before, anyway its a lot ofnpressure for the normal rider even having that in consideration.
the damper its obviosly been revalved for their needs as you point out in the positions of the rebound adjuster
I’m about 200lbs and tend to set my forks way below recommended fox pressures. Since it was my first experience with a fox40, I started with the recommended settings and I found it to be rather stiff, I was getting mad arm pump.
I kept lowering and lowering the pressures and playing with spacers to a point in which I thought that either the forks were defective or I was going nuts. I even plugged a shockwiz to make sure it was not me. I have settled at around 65psi, which is ridiculously low for my weight.
I’m a mediocre wannabe dentist guy, so no mad sends or KOM’s but I can hold my own. I can’t even imagine how 115 psi feels like, given that I started at around 80-85 psi.
Pro riders.... absolute mind blowing animals is the logical takeaway I guess.
One thing to consider is the HSC setting is harsh on these forks and running wide open is preferred for heavier riders. To offset this, increasing the spring rate to increase mid stroke support is necisarry to prevent the fork from diving.
I'm 215lbs, and run 95psi with 4 tokens and my LSC two clicks open from closed, HSC wide open, HSR 3 clicks from closed, and LSR closed.
One advantage to the newer VVC style grip 2 will be the allowance of more HSC without the harshness, and the ability to open up the LSC with a better platform to prevent the fork from diving.
Ultimately the faster you go, the firmer your setup will need to get. In turn the slower your rebound to prevent the bike from hopping around. The harshness your experiencing isnt necisarilly spring rate or compression, it's probably rebound. Try closing the LSR a few clicks. It should feel slow returning the first inch or so. Rebound is directly related to spring rate, so the deeper the bike goes into the travel, the faster it will recover, and it should gradually get slower until the end of the stroke. The other things to consider is your sag front and rear on the bike. 30% is average, but probably the maximum you wanna go in the rear. Max 15% for the front.
Greg has a rider weight of 86kg (189.598lbs). He had also stated he went back to the factory linkage as the custom linkage didnt have the same feeling he wanted.
He also stated in the last podcast he was on that he doesnt like running much sag past 20%. So neither the math nor the data match up to 33.3.
Same with the Öhlins fork. Bruni saif he runs 105 psi, I run 140 depite being 6kg lighter, also something very different
I've always said about Mullet/MX bikes that their biggest enemy towards becoming the norm is peoples lack of understanding and unfortunately this thread exemplifies that a little too good.
Like people thinking they are harder to ride and only for the pros - WTF? It's the opposite you fools! They are easier to get along with than a full on 29'er no matter what skill level you have. But because people in general are highly ignorant and likely won't buy one because of sheer ignorance and lack of understanding, the bike brands don't really dare to release them to the public yet.
The incarnation of 29" wheels were no differant. The companies who jumped on producing 29er DH bikes felt some pain (commencal is a perfect example of this) and thus have since redesigned the bike after some significant data acquisition under Amaury Pierron.
Santa Cruz were the first to the party to introduce the 29er to racing, yet were among the last to release to the public.
Mullet bikes are no exception. Just because a 29er behaves one way and a 27.5 bike behaves another isnt a simple case of meet in the middle.
Santa Cruz probably have the most dialed setup compared to every other company right now, somtheir transition into mullet is expected. However, I would expect to see some time and some real world data applied before it gets released to the public. After all, your spending top dollar on a bike, dont you want to make sure the people who designed and built it were certain it's dialed?
Anyhow, I carry a 26” tube because they’re rubber and they stretch and the 26” is smaller. I used to carry a 24” but that was a bit of a PITA.
Anyhow, I bought a front wheel and a back wheel. I bought a front tire and a back tire. No extra expense. But it sure is nice dropping a step track without a wheel buzzing my ‘taint. If I did this for a living (insert laugh track) I really wouldn’t want a tire in my ‘taint all day everyday.
Trying to explain the word Geometry, let alone what a head angle is to the vast majority of customers is like banging your head against the wall.
Trying to explain the advantages of two different size wheels, best of luck getting the customer to actually internalize their bike has two different size wheels.
I’d bet money on getting a phone call “I bought a bike from you a month ago and I got a flat today and my brother’s friend’s cousin’s uncle told me my wheels are two DIFFERENT sizes! I need to talk to manager, this is ridiculous”.
It’s brilliant when you get a customer who knows what’s up and you get to nerd out. Otherwise you’re stuck trying to explain how a Demo is different from an Epic.
The bike industry isn’t here to sell the best possible product, it’s here to sell the most product to most number of people, with the least demand on a margin suppressed dealer network with an underwhelming amount of trained staff.
The 'vast majority of customers' will be buying a commuter/hybrid bike and for the MTB riders it will be a trail/enduro bike. The post I was replying to was asking why they release a 29er DH bike when Bruni dominates on a mullet, if someone is buying the latest top end DH bike and follows the World Cup to know what Bruni rides then this doesn't need explained.
If you somehow get a total numpty in who is buying the most expensive DH bike available with no idea about bikes or DH, then you just say the front wheel is bigger so it rolls over bumps and smooths them out and the rear wheel is a bit smaller so you don't buzz the tyre off your bum all the time and it makes it corner better. Simple.
Anyone that wants to do the same thing without the Chris King bling/reliability/cost can just get one from Works Comp, Superstar, Reverse, Commencal maybe others, plenty already out there.
Ran a Works Comp one on my DH back when I had a DH bike, did the job.
Yes they are set up really different for the same job of going fast?
How would you set up your bike, for racing round your house?
BTW biks look super clean.
Can we assume that Greg really is 195cm (6’4.7”) tall, and the imperial number is wrong?
Basically the same shock spring rate than for Rampage ????
But is he 195 or 190,5cm tall?
????
I cannot afford a V-10.
If you can give these three guys their dream Machines, could you spend a little more and give my little brother and I an off-the-shelf Nomad and Megatower? He would like a medium Black Nomad, and the Large Megatower in FS Green. Or I would also love the Bronze-and-Blue Chameleon. Great color combo. Also a large. Thank You, R&Q
i bet next they understand what M size XXL frame is unacceptable
Let us get one post without him losing his shit.