Head-to-Head POV Video: Grim Donut VS Meta AM 29

Sep 21, 2020
by Pinkbike Originals  

HEAD TO HEAD

GRIM DONUT
VS
COMMENCAL META AM


The second part of the Grim Donut's story was released last week, and we saw Commencal's Yoann Barelli do head-to-head timed laps on his personal Meta AM 29 enduro bike and the Donut. Given that we sorta kinda pulled its geometry out of our asses, I wasn't expecting Barelli to post a quicker time on the Donut. And definitely not six-seconds quicker over just a two-minute-ish descent. But that's exactly what happened.

Okay, fine, there are a few buts...




The larger the data set, the more reliable the data. In other words, real testing would involve many laps on both bikes, not just a single attempt on each after a long, hot day of filming. More varied terrain - our loose, fast test trail certainly did suit the Donut - with another Freelap cone for a split-time would also be a must. So it'd have to be done on all sorts of trails, of course, not just a single one, and we'd ideally have both the Donut and Meta AM built up with identical components where possible.

In other words, if we're talking proper testing with results I'd bet on, the Commencal didn't get a fair crack at it.

Speaking of Barelli's Meta 29er, it's one of the more forward-thinking enduro bikes out there; his large has a 495mm reach, and 63.6 and 78.5-degree head and seat angles. Travel matches the Donut, with a 160mm/170mm combo, but the head angles differ by a whopping 6.6-degrees and the seat angle by 4.4-degrees. The Donut's also 124mm longer, 17mm of that behind the bottom bracket and the rest up front via that worryingly relaxed headtube.

And don't forget about that ground scraping bottom bracket, which is partially the result of putting a 27.5" wheel on a bike that wasn't originally designed for one... The bike being a touch under-sprung only adds to the excitement, right? Right.


The Grim Donut
bigquotesI think that maybe this test might make brands see a little out of the box, and if they want racers to be faster, maybe they have to make proper bikes for the racers.— Yoann Barelli


However flawed the testing was, Barelli ended up going six-seconds quicker on the Donut than he did on his own enduro race bike. You've watched the head-to-head video; where is the Donut gaining or losing time?



Want more Donut?
Part 1: We Went to Taiwan & Made a Bike from the Future - The Grim Donut
Behind the Numbers: The Grim Donut
We Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2 (April Fools)
Video: We Actually Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2

Posted In:
Reviews and Tech Videos Pinkbike Originals The Grim Donut Enduro Bikes Grim Grim Donut Yoann Barelli


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213 Comments

  • 714 1
 So just to clarify few things:
- I use this trail as my test track.
- my best time with the Commencal previously was 2:11.
- that day I did a 2:09.
- we should have done more laps (at least 10), back to back alternating Meta and Donut.
- we’ve had quite a few troubles with the donut and I couldn’t finish a lap hahaha.
- we got it right by the end of the day and I pushed a bit harder with the donut.
Keep in mind that this whole video is supposed to be a joke, turns out pinkbike did something that no other brands tried to do before and it seems to be working for certain types of tracks.
It would be great now for pinkbike to test it properly (back to back testing, different tracks, timing...).
They were also very concerned with the solidity of the bike and Levy was very concerned of the bike snapping off at full speed.. I wasn’t really hahahahaha.
The goal of this video isn’t to compare 2 bikes but to test a funny idea.
Cheers
Yo
  • 194 3
 You are the Chuck Yeager of mountain bikes. No other pro would dare push that bike to the limits. Hats off to you!
  • 5 2
 You did a great job! I just wish I had a chance to ride the Donut! How about a demo tour?
  • 65 2
 Every time you comment I always read it in my head with your accent. Makes me chuckle every time! Thanks Yoann!
  • 17 0
 You were so much fun to watch. Thanks for doing that video (and following up here)!
  • 11 5
 Yoann - I think it looks like the GD forced you to take straighter lines more than you "chose" straighter lines but maybe that's just me. But because of the lines the bike gained steadily all lap. Since the bike naturally will not enter a turn like the Meta it's going to want to point straight. Here is where your talent shows b/c you have the natural skill to let the bike do what it wants. What I would be really curious to see is you to repeat those EXACT lines on the Meta because to me this lap is far more about going straighter faster because it almost was like watching two different riders interpretation of lines rather than the same rider, same lines, different bikes.
  • 2 0
 @mexicant: "Put the spurs to 'er, Yoann!"
  • 17 1
 @yoannbarelli thanks for being such a great sport and getting us all extra excited about this bike! But would you ride it if it looked like this? https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/19430240/
  • 3 0
 I'm really glad you got all that out of the way at the outset. I'm sure it curbed a great many PB comments!
  • 3 1
 Mais putain, @yoannbarelli, t'es celui qui nous fait le plus rire et t'es le meilleur, sauf sur la dalle de Blausasc mon gars. Wink
  • 4 1
 @swellhunter: wondering the same thing... but also wondering if it is only the Sasquatch sized wheelbase that is propelling him to a better time? The next GD could have a reduced HTA and compensate with a longer top tube to compare.
  • 2 0
 @iadesp06: that's some niche trolling man. Mais chuis d'accord.
  • 5 0
 @mexicant: You sir are made of the right stuff! Hey, you got any beeman's?
  • 43 0
 @yoannbarelli is pretending to just have fun and he tries to portray this as a goof. But all is not as it seems... He is in fact sent out on a mission to spy and steal the secret recipe behind the Donut! The Commencal Baguette is coming! It will be crisper, longer, slacker, steeper and grimmer. It promises to bring le pain to it's competitors.
But why would Yoann and Commencal stoop so low, you may ask? It's simple. Money! Commencal realised this and they said to themselves: let's get this bread
  • 1 19
flag Soucy (Sep 21, 2020 at 14:32) (Below Threshold)
 I'm sure Commencal is thrilled by being beaten by the Junk Donut! It may be cheap but it doesn't seem fast.
  • 3 0
 Dude, you're a freaking rockstar!
  • 1 1
 After watching the video a few times, I think this may boil down to wheelbase more than anything. You can see how quickly it accelerates on the straights, and it carries speed much better than the Commencal. Remember back in the old days of skiing, you would ski on nice long 200's or 210's and just rip through the long straight turns.
  • 1 0
 Yoann Barelli is my spirit animal
  • 3 0
 @swellhunter: imagine using a pro racer how to ride their bike haha
  • 2 0
 @mexicant: That's the first time I've ever wanted to give more than one prop!
  • 2 2
 @swellhunter: 100. That trail is crazy straight too. Let’s see that thing on some 120 degree turns and big left/right direction changes.
  • 2 0
 Cheers Jésus
  • 1 0
 The star of the show was your hair!! Its got great body and volume....very fabio!!!
  • 2 0
 Just want to thank you Yoann, for being such a good ambassador for the sport, and for always bringing a lot of positive energy. Video was awesome, as always, and it's quite fun to see that even something as outlandish as the Grim Donut can work under the right circumstances.
  • 365 0
 Can Yoanne become Pinkbike's "Stig"?
  • 173 0
 "Le" Stig
  • 49 0
 Some say......
  • 43 3
 The stig was supposed to be nameless and faceless. I'm thinking Barelli's irrepressible and infectious laugh would give the secret away pretty easily.
  • 9 0
 @kcy4130: he can be the stig ironically!
  • 4 0
 @friendlyfoe: Yeah, I'm all for him doing timed tests, but it'd be a shame to hide/silence him like the stig, he's too entertaining for that.
  • 10 0
 And on that Bombshell It's time to make it even longer and slacker.
  • 2 0
 How hard could it be?
  • 9 1
 Actually this is kind of an insanely good idea. Wonder how much it would cost to match all of someone like yoann's sponsors salaries to have a full time tester. No offense to the guys and gals at PB but I would take back to back test times from someone like him a bit more seriously than the pb testers.
  • 15 0
 Some say he has three balls... Big Grin
  • 1 0
 I second that!
  • 7 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: I don't know, the way I look at it is Kazimer's experience is going to be way more relevant to my riding than Yoann's
  • 4 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: I bet you they could find a local ripper to do laps around a designated "test loop", top gear test track style. That would be fun to watch along with a leaderboard to boot
  • 1 0
 This is a brilliant idea, actually.
  • 2 0
 Le Brie
  • 4 0
 @kcy4130: We will call him "Swig"...the french cousin
  • 1 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: I get what you're saying, but he is so far beyond my riding capabilities that his reviews would not be as relevant. As it stands now I take Kaz's reviews and scale them to my abilities and they are pretty much money.
  • 2 0
 @rrolly: i think both can be useful. Obviously how someone more mortal gets along with a bike is probably more relatable to how we might. However, The thing about having average riders doing timed laps comparing bikes that always worries me is consistency. I know my lap times even on trails I’m familiar with can vary wildly. That’s where having a pro doing back to back timed laps probably gives us better input than the PB testers. Having both would be ideal.
  • 1 0
 @kcy4130:
  • 128 0
 Sounds like he is biking away from a wedding with all the tin cans trailing behind him.
  • 57 0
 Wrenches in a toolbox rolling down the stairs?

I’m not British enough to ask if it’s a skeleton wanking in a biscuit tin.
  • 23 0
 @gotohe11carolina: it's not an Orange.
  • 8 0
 @gotohe11carolina:

youtu.be/IQ2ChdkijYA
  • 3 0
 Is it just the cables rattling around inside the downtube (no internal cable guides), or is there something more... ominous going on in there?
  • 9 0
 @enki: No chain slap protection of any kind in the rear triangle is probably a major contributor...
  • 1 0
 @enki: There's no rubber bumper to dull the chain slapping the chainstay.
  • 79 0
 the Grim Donut does NOT need more cow bell
  • 18 1
 You are mistaken. You ALWAYS need more cowbell.
  • 60 0
 There is a technique used by motorsports teams where you can re-render the video as distance along the track, rather than time. This allows you to display both bikes at the same point in the track, and display the time delta between them. It's a much better way to see exactly where they are making up/losing time.
  • 26 1
 This would be really interesting.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: break out the Lit Pro device!
  • 4 0
 @rojo-1 Do you know how they do this? Is there a instructional video somewhere on how to do this?
  • 2 0
 @alexmander: I've seen it done with in house software. You go through each video, add markers where the car crosses certain points on the track e.g. touches a kerb, change in tarmac texture, crosses a line etc. It then knows to sync the two videos at these points and can work out the time delta at those exact moments. It then re-renders, getting the videos to match up at these markers.
You can bypass adding markers if you have GPS data (which teams don't have for competitors cars, hence the markers...) as you already know the distance along the track.
I heard someone mention an off the shelf product that can do this, but can't for the life of me remember what it was.
  • 2 0
 Strava's "Compare" tool does this as well
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: www.litprolive.com
  • 9 0
 Nah we just need Cathro to be doing the vid!!
  • 7 0
 @alexmander: theres a program called dartfish in which you can overlay videos. its used a lot in sport, car racing, ski racing, etc. that would take care of it
  • 37 8
 I think there is some kind of reverse placebo going on here, like Yoann knew the grim was going be difficult so he turned it up to 11.
  • 57 0
 He does seem like he's breathing more heavily on the donut run...could just be the fear.
  • 8 0
 youtu.be/4xgx4k83zzc
  • 37 0
 It's the extra adrenaline from the fear of the head tube failing.
  • 9 29
flag Twenty6ers4life (Sep 21, 2020 at 7:32) (Below Threshold)
 He even says he is going 80-90% at the start of his run on his bike. And I assume he’s flat out on the donut. So there’s easily that time gap right there.
  • 9 33
flag radrider (Sep 21, 2020 at 7:57) (Below Threshold)
 @Twenty6ers4life: Ya, I listened to the runs side by side, instead of watching them. It is painfully obvious that his breathing is much more intense during the grim donut run.

The test was a joke.. Put on a power meter, and heart rate monitor.. Do more runs and on more tracks and with more people.
  • 9 3
 First ride on a bike that you're concerned the head-tube might snap off? And you think he turned it up to 11? I would assume quite the opposite and he would scale it back.
  • 9 0
 Contracts up at the end of the year, were there hard feelings?
  • 16 2
 @Twenty6ers4life: Yeah.
Flat out.
On an odd looking bike He'd never thrown a leg before.
But I suppose you know better.
  • 6 20
flag radrider (Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24) (Below Threshold)
 @Becciu: I suppose you know better thinking a EWS pro can't go full steam on a weird bike on an easy track.
  • 5 0
 Perhaps, but I don't think he would want to make his Commencal Meta look slower to Grim Donut. His sponsor Commencal probably wouldn't be too fond of that.
  • 7 0
 @radrider: Some craic you aren't ye
  • 23 0
 On the latest Pinkbike Podcast, Yoann addresses this directly. I'm too lazy to find the timestamp but he is on in the last 1/4 of the episode. IIRC he claimed that he has done so much back to back testing in his career that he has it pretty well dialed as far as effort goes, giving it about 90%. He also said that in his back-to-back runs he typically sees only fractions of a second difference.
  • 13 7
 @radrider: from TORONTO the epicentre of rad riding. Name checks out
  • 4 0
 No one has heard that "New bike stoke makes you 10x faster"?
  • 5 0
 He's giving commentary while riding the Donut which indicates to me he wasn't going 110%. Plus he drops the chain and still comes in six seconds quicker on a bike he hasn't ridden and is comfortable with all season like the Commencal.

It looks to me like the Donut is faster on almost all the sections except for the tighter turns where the Commencal had a slight edge. I'd like to see some more varied trail runs and comparisons by this mystic Grim Donut.
  • 31 1
 @radrider @Twenty6ers4life www.pinkbike.com/news/the-pinkbike-podcast-episode-23-grim-donut-2-is-live.html Yoann talks about the comparable efforts in there.

Is this infotainment? Yes. Broscience? You betcha. Gun to my head do I now think the Grim Donut is faster on this trail than Yoann's race bike? 100%.

We've got lots more testing and experimenting to do with the Grim Donut...
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: I'll admit I was wrong, truly thought the Donut would be horrible. Looking forward to more experiments and seeing if this leads to more 'race specific' bikes or a higher level of configuration options with framesets (personal gripe, modular dropouts and adjustable headset cups on everything already)
  • 8 0
 @brianpark: Just have someone race a Geometron?
  • 2 16
flag jwdenver (Sep 21, 2020 at 10:11) (Below Threshold)
 @leelau: ok boomer
  • 6 1
 @jwdenver: Can confirm that he is not a boomer, and has had no babies. Keep speculating though.
  • 6 0
 @tacklingdummy: True, but since Commencal makes their bikes out of metal, they could probably whip him up a Commencal Donut in no time for further testing. Then maybe we would get a chance to see Yoann win in Chile!

A smart company wouldn't be afraid of this. It's great press for Commencal, especially if they respond with a new prototype for him to test.
  • 2 0
 @Speeder01: Yeah, I agree. Commencal should be working like mad scientists creating a Frankenstein prototype for testing. After that video, there might be a lot of companies doing the same. Lol.
  • 2 0
 I mean, he rides the Meta everyday, surely by now he's comfortable on it. The fact is he smashed its time on a bike he hopped on a few hours ago.
  • 1 0
 Maybe, but he did also significantly improve his previous Meta time as well so it wasn't like he wasn't pushing.
  • 3 0
 @Speeder01: Le croissant sinestre...
  • 1 0
 @downcountry: I believe it's 10% faster but I see your point
  • 1 0
 @downcountry: totally!!
  • 22 0
 2020 continues to deliver
  • 19 0
 Now make the Grim Donut red and it'll be 10 seconds faster!
  • 17 0
 It should be PINK. PINK BIKE.
  • 15 1
 This would be my GoPro footage too if I had recorded my Sunday grocery run in the early days of the pandemic when toilet paper was scarce.
  • 13 1
 It's supposed to be for enduro. Should test it on Whistler EWS stages. That way the argument that the course was selected to suit the donut is somewhat nullified.
  • 22 2
 Currently WBP is asking media not to film stuff in the park (thanks 'rona), and the logistics of accessing the other EWS-worthy trails around Whistler were a bit annoying.

This course wasn't selected to suit the donut, it's just Yoann's most familiar testing track. Also I don't think any of us would disagree that there are LOTS of trails and even lots of EWS tracks that probably wouldn't suit the Donut.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Not saying it was a bad course to test on. That's a shame about WBP. It'd just be interesting to compare times on longer courses where fatigue will be more of a factor than on a relatively short one.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: should have picked Dead Dog (Mt 7)....
  • 13 0
 Looked like it just kept all speed on g-outs where the meta was losing speed.
  • 13 1
 2020 is just so weird, the Grim Donut is the most exiting thing happening in mountain biking technology right now, screw wireless shifting, or ebikes!
  • 12 0
 That first corner looked better with the Grim Donut! Long bikes can turn!
  • 3 0
 I don't think that's the type of turn people are thinking of when they say long bikes can't turn tho
  • 2 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: For sure. A full 180-degree turn in a small radius would probably not be pretty. I really do think he made that corner look better with the Donut though, which surprised me.
  • 1 0
 @jwestenhoff: Totes. The traction seemed significant.
  • 6 0
 Wow this head to head is quite the revelation to the world that bike brands need to step forward in agressive geometrys for racers. Yes you don't drive a Formula one in a 50 zone!
Impressive, also to be noted Yoann hasn't done ANY setup on the Grim donut before testing it
He didn't know the bike (obviously first time riding it) and the only thing familiar to him was : His pedals...
So Yes this geo that Mike Levy made to be a joke is actually working out...some fine touch ups here and there...but serioulsy sugar gives a lot of GOOD ideas to Levy, and i can't wait to see a Grim donut Tim Horton's replica
@mikelevy
  • 6 0
 This video really shows the difference well. In many ways I think it was almost more shocking given how it progressively took just over a second on every segment. I was expecting a little more balance.

That said, I rode a v2 Bronson cc with DHX2 for 4 years and was totally comfortable and in love with the bike. It just felt right and over that time I’ve don’t countless runs in perfect conditions on my favourite rides.
I just got a Geometron G1. 60mm longer reach. 4deg slacker HTA. First ride on it after 8months of 0 riding due to injury (it was my welcome back present to myself) and immediately posting PRs. That’s on wide open straight tracks and tight twisty ones.
If you are purely interested in what the watch says then I’m sure there is a long way for the mainstream to go.

Finally, and critically, as a result of the geometry it also climbs better and faster than the Santa Cruz.
  • 5 0
 Very entertaining; really enjoyed the whole thing. A little like pushing a tank down a mineshaft - it’s pretty much going to beat everything else to the bottom, and smooth out all the rough edges of the mineshaft on the way down.
  • 7 2
 So I'll ask the question:

Would anyone actually BUY a Grim Donut, if it were offered for sale tomorrow? Assume pricing is roughly at Commencal levels, for the sake of argument.
  • 13 0
 If going fast is your only measure for fun during riding then yes! Me personally? Hell no!
  • 10 2
 @freeinpg: Jib and go for all the bonus hits, stop and regroup to talk about who hit what. Maybe go back and session it. This is the way.

Pinning it till your wrists give out for Strava...nah.
  • 7 4
 Fast = Fun, in my eyes. And I'm not even that fast. But whizzing past trees barely inches off the ends of my bars beats trailsy jibs all day long for me. Bonus gaps definitely, as long as they aren't slowing me down.
  • 4 1
 Yup and do the little sections with good sight lines at full pin. Stop at slow points and regroup for shit talking. The-make-hikers-jump-into-the-bushes-pin-the-whole-trail thing is BS.
  • 5 0
 I can just tape some cowbells on my current bike and get a placebo effect.
  • 5 0
 I'd be interested to know whether the extreme HTA leads to faster wear on the fork bushings. Seems like the further from vertical you get, the more force you're putting on the bushing instead of the air column/spring.
  • 9 5
 Didn’t read all the comments yet, so don’t know if I’m repeating someone..
If you want to justify the Donut, then put it up against a full DH bike on non-pedaling DH course. Or, just something downhill, kinda rough without a lot of corners.
If the DH bike doesn’t just destroy the Donut, Levy is on to something..
  • 9 0
 But it isn't a DH bike, it was never intended to be so i dont see how the comparison is relevant.
  • 2 0
 Full on DH bike has way more travel so it is hardly a fair comparison if the terrain is rough.
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce:
Yes, you CAN climb on the GD, but the head angle is slacker than any production DH bike and Waay slacker than any production Enduro bike. Yes, the seat angle is steep, but it will still be crappy on steep technical climbs. Wouldn't really be a good enduro race bike, or an out-and-back bike for your average joe.

I'd be willing to bet that certain DH bikes with a dropper and a wide range cassette could beat this bike on tech climbs. If it's an enduro bike, not a downhill bike, they should compare it to the Meta on a long technical climb. Pro enduro riders might not be timed on the uphill, but I always see enduro bro's trying to beat all-mountain bikes.
  • 2 1
 @Glory831Guy: why are you arguing about a joke bike? It is an enduro, hence the vertical seat tube and actual casette. It doesn't matter if there are steeper, better pedaling DH bikes. It is supposed to be a bad enduro, but it seems like the whole Grim Donut project is going over your head.
  • 2 0
 @RonSauce:
Steep seat tube or not, the only practical use for this bike is lift assist downhill. That's what ExMrEr posted and you were like, b but, b bbut it's an enduro bike.

Pinkbike could sell you beachfront property in Utah.
  • 1 0
 @Glory831Guy:

..made my point better than I could!
I think the lap times in the test mean the GD is elevated from probable joke to nearly relevant.
So yeah, Levy, time to develop it like any other race machine.. Which I assume (hope) is going on as we speak.
A fully developed race bike ready for the 2021 season. It doesn’t have to go out there and win everything to prove a point.
And if it gets a top 10, maybe he can change the name to Happy Donut!
  • 5 1
 Yoann is an amazingly skilled and fearless rider, but pushing the GD that hard is the pièce de résistance. Having just come back from a major injury - risking it all on that jalopy is insane. I mean it looks like the head tube has already separated from the frame when it's sitting still.
  • 6 1
 Is it more fair to compare the Donut to a DH bike instead of an enduro bike? It seems like since it is a rocket downhill but terrible at climbing (or pedaling more generally) it has more in common with a DH bike?
  • 3 0
 Awesome balls out riding on a prototype and I’m stoked to see people getting behind boundary pushing geometry but Geometron have been doing this for a while.
Yoann says in the first comment “pb is trying to do something no other manufacturer has done”, I think Chris Porter and Geometron bikes may take exception to that.
I’m 180 cm on a large G1 and it is fast as hell and yet surprisingly nimble at the same time. Reckon I would be a chunk faster on an XL but at the expense of fun on mellower trails.
One thing that makes the G1 stand out for me is the ability to change bottom bracket height by significant amounts trailside with the mutators. It makes a huge difference to the bikes handling. Super low for berm shredding downhill fun or raised for climbing bias on all day epics. It also means you can get the shock and sag set as you want then tailor your BB height without compromise. Something to think about for the production donut?
Also, the damping platform on the EXT shock is amazing and really lets you make the most of the geometry.

Keep up the good work guys, I’d love to see the Grim Donut on a podium!

Once you go super long and slack, you never go back........
  • 3 0
 The grim donut is 5.5 degrees slacker than the geometron in the head angle and 12 degrees steeper in the seat angle. The geometron is pretty extreme compared to most current bikes but the donut takes it a lot further.
  • 4 1
 Thank you for this follow up but I thought this would be more enlightening. The Donut pulled away so fast there was no comparison. You would almost have to breakdown each section Cathrovision style.
  • 14 0
 agreed - MUCH of the time the GD had on the Commencal was from the start. it also looked like there was more aggressive cornering and line selection happening on the GD.
In my book, i'm happy to think that bike selection (same category of bike) makes minor difference but not massive difference. Lines Selection, cornering, aggression, fitness, and technique reflect the majority of the time on the clock.


That said - why don't we have a whole series on the GD???? this is super interesting. PB - you have the opportunity for a LOT of content to be created here that your readers would love!
Production of a bike!
Refinement of a bike!
Testing a Bike!
Racing a Bike!
Production vs Race only bikes
Marketing and Selling a bike!
How much does the bike matter to the rider? to the racer?
PB teams/ Riders - their perspectives!
Horses for Courses - does this work in real life for racers or is it just a phrase?


There's SOOOOO much content waiting to be made!
  • 14 1
 @pdb18: that's the plan. Smile
  • 5 0
 @pdb18:
Line choice obviously makes a huge difference, but you also need to factor in how much confidence a bike gives you to be able to corner at a certain speed or take a certain line. That's not something easy to quantify.
  • 1 0
 @vapidoscar agree that the GD pulled a quick second from the start, but found it fairly easy to see the increasing gap that it gained over the Meta. Just landmark stumps etc along the run and the time gap grows consistently through the run, even with the chain drop.
I’d love to see the method @rojo-1 mentioned above showing the time delta, would really show where time was gained and lost.
  • 6 0
 Now can we get a review of the new Meta AM 29?
  • 2 0
 So a bike gets designed and built with a 'plus' slack HA and it rips like a downhill bike... surprise. Very similar to caster on a car...

"Caster angles are generally used to improve a vehicle's steering balance and front-end cornering stability. Caster also will help with high-speed stability. Almost always, the more positive caster you have built into your race car or street car, the better."

The real surprise is that the headtube is still attached. 20 rides later?
  • 1 0
 Test riding new bikes is fun. I can respect the differences in how each machine handles on trail, and feel like there is a certain dialog that happens as we ride a new whip. You push into a corner and the brain notices how the thing feels. That stupid slack HT actually makes sense at speed, and Yoann proves this. I don't think he was holding back on the Meta, just that he felt more confident on the donut. I'm surprised Levy did so well on it against all those XC bikes on the impossible climb video. Enduro race bike manufacturers take note!
  • 1 0
 Does not surprise me that the Donut is faster, its basically a missile. Imagine having to run through 2 days of EWS though, you'd need to be insanely fit. Hopefully it will see small production and a sponsored EWS team for a few races next year. As for those questioning it, why? It does what is says on the tin (geo).
  • 2 0
 I'm thinking there might be something behind the longer wheelbase perhaps? I get the interest over the slack head angle, but would this fact alone generate that much more grip or stability? Who knows!
  • 2 0
 Its everything, like the BB dragging on the ground. This bike makes zero compromise in the pursuit of traction.
  • 1 0
 Yes the long wheelbase increases stability and allows you to ride centered. It allows you to weight each wheel independently. Of course, you need long chainstays for maximum benefit. V2 of the grim donut should try and add 500mm chainstays and steepen the head angle a tad.
  • 2 1
 Well, what I don't want to see is factory teams custom designing a frame for each track. Is there a rule right now that says "you need to finish the season with the frame design you started it with", if not then maybe there should be.
  • 3 0
 Why not? Surely that would accelerate their understanding of how different geometries work out in the real world.
  • 2 0
 The Athertons did exactly this last year. Of course their bikes weren’t available to the public at the time so they got away with calling each model a prototype but I suspect there was a good bit of attention given to the type of track they were racing that weekend for what to change in the bike.
  • 1 0
 I thought the canyon strive can change the geo !
  • 2 0
 I'm 100% the opposite. Especially with DH I would love to see a custom bike for every track. It makes less sense for enduro to do it, but i would be very interested in it.
  • 2 1
 That isn't a terribly steep trail, where I thought the Grim Donut's super slack HTA would really shine. But it is a bumpy one. Is it the geometry or the extra weight that's helping it stay planted and go faster? Or something else (suspension setup)?
  • 1 0
 Methinks the slack headangle of the donut makes the telescoping fork react more directly to the forces put on it, and therefore tracks better, which increases grip and speed, much like a paralellogram linkage fork. As opposed to a traditional 72 degree headangle setup a large proportion of the forces acting on the fork are closer to perpendicular, resulting in fork binding, vibrations, and less traction. The reak test should be the grim donut vs the motion e18!
  • 1 0
 Totally agree with @ratedgg13:

Absolutely the GD should be PINK.
Powder Coat the Donut and add sprinkles. It needs a tear down for inspection, perfect timing.

V2 should have an ode to Tim Horton's on it as well.
Instant sponsorship cause even AG likes him some Donuts.
  • 3 0
 In the time it took from the last Grim Doughnut video to this one I got a little 'older.
  • 2 0
 Assuming there is some benefit to this design they should reinforce the head tube and add a dual crown fork for a downhill course test
  • 5 1
 I wonder how Commencal feels about all of this?
  • 1 1
 Hey cool, may I suggest that next time you do a video of meta vs riding a big rolling tire ? Something like this:
www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1744162/Video-Aussie-daredevil-escapes-injury-rolling-hill-giant-tyre.html
  • 1 0
 and ditch the 27.5 rear wheel
  • 4 0
 Doughnut w/ duel crown vs. Paul Aston's G1 ????
  • 2 0
 That isn't a fair fight...
  • 3 0
 What's better, a donut filled with jelly or a Grim Donut filled with loose change?
  • 1 1
 It would be really fascinating to observe the gradual loss of advantage of the GD to different stages of easier, XC type of terrain. Test it against an increasingly more XC bike on increasingly more pedal-ly and tight terrain. I'm assuming it'll be absolutely terrible on your average up and down XC loop with equal climbing and descending.... but I want to know HOW much worse. I think the goal for where this goes should be just as focused on trying to find where it is the absolute worst performing bike. Maximum entertainment. Time trials across the whole spectrum!
  • 1 0
 Why? It’s it an XC bike. You could do the same with an XC bike, put it on an increasingly steep and technical course until it sucks, pretty pointless unless you’re an academic.

Horses for courses, apples to apples, no one in their right mind would take the Grim on an enduro ride unless they like walking uphill.
  • 1 0
 @nurseben:

But...you don't understand! We could be seeing the Grim Donut doing urban trials!
  • 2 0
 pinkbike comments: complain XC is lame and unexciting
Pinkbike comments: "I want to see a bike that can't pedal or climb get walked around an XC track".
  • 1 0
 @nurseben: precisely those things. Only for entertainment value. And tons of people are over-biked so videos about being over-biked are relevant.
  • 5 0
 LOOK AT THE TIME!!!!
  • 2 0
 Is this maybe where the telescoping fork gives way to a Trust type fork?

Seriously - do a run with a Trust fork! (If the carbon could handle it of course. . .)
  • 2 0
 These radical left commies are trying to foist their too-slack head tube angles on all of us Patriots! Make Head Tube Angles Great Again!!!1! #MHTAGA
  • 1 0
 It takes a (wo)man with big balls to get advantage out of the Grim Donut. I have a feeling it would only slow me down. But then again, I would've been halfway down the trail by the time they finished editing the video...
  • 4 1
 We are proud of you Mike. Now Gwin should test it Smile
  • 1 2
 You now have a bike that has a reputation for handling speed very well. You have a crazy Frenchman who is willing to ride it at speed. You might have a snow or gravel covered mountain or two nearby. So the question is, do you have a World Mountain Bike Speed Record attempt just waiting to happen?
  • 4 6
 The answer is no.
  • 3 0
 Makes you realise how big a gap 3 seconds is...
  • 2 0
 In my humble opinion, the major key to performance here is the low levels of antisquat.
  • 1 0
 Im sure with the donuts slack head angle and long wb it gains a significant amount more front braking traction too before the real wheel wants to leave the ground
  • 3 0
 Still less likely to break than a Yeti
  • 1 0
 Maybe refine this bike. Higher bottom bracket. Slightly slacker seat tube. And steeper head angle at 60 degress. Let's see what happens.
  • 2 0
 Man, he was hauling! Excellent stuff guys.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy Congrats, genius! Wink
  • 2 0
 Show me that the GD can whip better and you’ll sell me on it...
  • 2 0
 Battle of the Universe:

Grim Donut vs Smiley Baguette
  • 3 0
 Now the climbing video?
  • 2 0
 Back to the drawing board MAX hehe
  • 2 0
 Grim Donut sounds like a couple coins rattling around in a can.
  • 1 0
 Lets go 6° further and see whether that is still faster.
Then go back and find the optimum.
  • 1 0
 Is the minis 30mm bb drop really that bad? Some brands have more than this as standard (Orange)
  • 2 0
 When can I order a Grim Donut and what are the available specs?
  • 1 0
 Its gonna be hard to make a bike with a flip chip to take it from 65 degrees to 57
  • 1 1
 RS and Fox won’t be happy with the amount of bending load that extra head angle is giving. Surely the load case is well at or over the design limit.
  • 1 0
 I was very worried about the glass ..
  • 1 0
 Can't wait to see what Max does for his bikes coming in MY 2022.
  • 1 1
 This win for the Grim Donut ranks up there with Aaron Gwin's chainless win.
  • 1 0
 Man it is WAY faster. Carried speed through everything so much better.
  • 2 1
 Lets all kick in 50$ and sponsor somebody crazy to race it.
  • 1 0
 The intro to the GDII video is just classic Levy. Love it!
  • 1 0
 I think from now on they should test all bikes against it.
  • 1 0
 That bike is to noisy Als I heard was rattle rattle rattle
  • 1 0
 What trail in Pemby is that?!
  • 1 0
 I bet we will soon see Meta AM update with longer chainstays.
  • 1 0
 I like that a rider of the Donut can see his/her own head tube badge.
  • 1 0
 lovin the 83 grees seat angle. Check the table.
  • 1 0
 Why so many logs?
  • 10 0
 Because Yoann is literally sh*ting his pants.
  • 2 0
 That's not a lot of logs. The second photo in this set has a lot of logs www.instagram.com/p/CFSLb0alUS6
  • 26 1
 i've never understood log trucks. sometimes you'll be out on a highway, you'll see two big giant trucks each loaded up with logs and they pass each other on the highway. i don't understand that. i mean, if they need logs over there... and they need them over there... you'd think a phone call would save a whole lot of trouble.
  • 4 0
 @twonsarelli: sounds like you have a job fella
  • 1 0
 @twonsarelli: this is excellent
  • 1 0
 @lastminutetech: brian regan, 1997. i thought for sure someone would catch it!
  • 1 0
 Yoann is a hero!
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