HEAD TO HEAD
GRIM DONUT
VS
COMMENCAL META AM
GRIM DONUT
VS
COMMENCAL META AM
The second part of the Grim Donut's story was released last week, and we saw Commencal's Yoann Barelli do head-to-head timed laps on his personal Meta AM 29 enduro bike and the Donut. Given that we sorta kinda pulled its geometry out of our asses, I wasn't expecting Barelli to post a quicker time on the Donut. And definitely not six-seconds quicker over just a two-minute-ish descent. But that's exactly what happened.
Okay, fine, there are a few buts...
The larger the data set, the more reliable the data. In other words, real testing would involve many laps on both bikes, not just a single attempt on each after a long, hot day of filming. More varied terrain - our loose, fast test trail certainly did suit the Donut - with another Freelap cone for a split-time would also be a must. So it'd have to be done on all sorts of trails, of course, not just a single one, and we'd ideally have both the Donut and Meta AM built up with identical components where possible.
In other words, if we're talking proper testing with results I'd bet on, the Commencal didn't get a fair crack at it.
Speaking of Barelli's Meta 29er, it's one of the more forward-thinking enduro bikes out there; his large has a 495mm reach, and 63.6 and 78.5-degree head and seat angles. Travel matches the Donut, with a 160mm/170mm combo, but the head angles differ by a whopping 6.6-degrees and the seat angle by 4.4-degrees. The Donut's also 124mm longer, 17mm of that behind the bottom bracket and the rest up front via that worryingly relaxed headtube.
And don't forget about that ground scraping bottom bracket, which is partially the result of putting a 27.5" wheel on a bike that wasn't originally designed for one... The bike being a touch under-sprung only adds to the excitement, right? Right.
 | I think that maybe this test might make brands see a little out of the box, and if they want racers to be faster, maybe they have to make proper bikes for the racers. |
However flawed the testing was, Barelli ended up going six-seconds quicker on the Donut than he did on his own enduro race bike. You've watched the head-to-head video; where is the Donut gaining or losing time?
Want more Donut?
Part 1: We Went to Taiwan & Made a Bike from the Future - The Grim Donut
Behind the Numbers: The Grim Donut
We Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2 (April Fools)
Video: We Actually Tested Our Bike From The Future - The Grim Donut Part 2
213 Comments
- I use this trail as my test track.
- my best time with the Commencal previously was 2:11.
- that day I did a 2:09.
- we should have done more laps (at least 10), back to back alternating Meta and Donut.
- we’ve had quite a few troubles with the donut and I couldn’t finish a lap hahaha.
- we got it right by the end of the day and I pushed a bit harder with the donut.
Keep in mind that this whole video is supposed to be a joke, turns out pinkbike did something that no other brands tried to do before and it seems to be working for certain types of tracks.
It would be great now for pinkbike to test it properly (back to back testing, different tracks, timing...).
They were also very concerned with the solidity of the bike and Levy was very concerned of the bike snapping off at full speed.. I wasn’t really hahahahaha.
The goal of this video isn’t to compare 2 bikes but to test a funny idea.
Cheers
Yo
But why would Yoann and Commencal stoop so low, you may ask? It's simple. Money! Commencal realised this and they said to themselves: let's get this bread
I’m not British enough to ask if it’s a skeleton wanking in a biscuit tin.
youtu.be/IQ2ChdkijYA
You can bypass adding markers if you have GPS data (which teams don't have for competitors cars, hence the markers...) as you already know the distance along the track.
I heard someone mention an off the shelf product that can do this, but can't for the life of me remember what it was.
The test was a joke.. Put on a power meter, and heart rate monitor.. Do more runs and on more tracks and with more people.
Flat out.
On an odd looking bike He'd never thrown a leg before.
But I suppose you know better.
It looks to me like the Donut is faster on almost all the sections except for the tighter turns where the Commencal had a slight edge. I'd like to see some more varied trail runs and comparisons by this mystic Grim Donut.
Is this infotainment? Yes. Broscience? You betcha. Gun to my head do I now think the Grim Donut is faster on this trail than Yoann's race bike? 100%.
We've got lots more testing and experimenting to do with the Grim Donut...
A smart company wouldn't be afraid of this. It's great press for Commencal, especially if they respond with a new prototype for him to test.
This course wasn't selected to suit the donut, it's just Yoann's most familiar testing track. Also I don't think any of us would disagree that there are LOTS of trails and even lots of EWS tracks that probably wouldn't suit the Donut.
Impressive, also to be noted Yoann hasn't done ANY setup on the Grim donut before testing it
He didn't know the bike (obviously first time riding it) and the only thing familiar to him was : His pedals...
So Yes this geo that Mike Levy made to be a joke is actually working out...some fine touch ups here and there...but serioulsy sugar gives a lot of GOOD ideas to Levy, and i can't wait to see a Grim donut Tim Horton's replica
@mikelevy
That said, I rode a v2 Bronson cc with DHX2 for 4 years and was totally comfortable and in love with the bike. It just felt right and over that time I’ve don’t countless runs in perfect conditions on my favourite rides.
I just got a Geometron G1. 60mm longer reach. 4deg slacker HTA. First ride on it after 8months of 0 riding due to injury (it was my welcome back present to myself) and immediately posting PRs. That’s on wide open straight tracks and tight twisty ones.
If you are purely interested in what the watch says then I’m sure there is a long way for the mainstream to go.
Finally, and critically, as a result of the geometry it also climbs better and faster than the Santa Cruz.
Would anyone actually BUY a Grim Donut, if it were offered for sale tomorrow? Assume pricing is roughly at Commencal levels, for the sake of argument.
Pinning it till your wrists give out for Strava...nah.
If you want to justify the Donut, then put it up against a full DH bike on non-pedaling DH course. Or, just something downhill, kinda rough without a lot of corners.
If the DH bike doesn’t just destroy the Donut, Levy is on to something..
Yes, you CAN climb on the GD, but the head angle is slacker than any production DH bike and Waay slacker than any production Enduro bike. Yes, the seat angle is steep, but it will still be crappy on steep technical climbs. Wouldn't really be a good enduro race bike, or an out-and-back bike for your average joe.
I'd be willing to bet that certain DH bikes with a dropper and a wide range cassette could beat this bike on tech climbs. If it's an enduro bike, not a downhill bike, they should compare it to the Meta on a long technical climb. Pro enduro riders might not be timed on the uphill, but I always see enduro bro's trying to beat all-mountain bikes.
Steep seat tube or not, the only practical use for this bike is lift assist downhill. That's what ExMrEr posted and you were like, b but, b bbut it's an enduro bike.
Pinkbike could sell you beachfront property in Utah.
..made my point better than I could!
I think the lap times in the test mean the GD is elevated from probable joke to nearly relevant.
So yeah, Levy, time to develop it like any other race machine.. Which I assume (hope) is going on as we speak.
A fully developed race bike ready for the 2021 season. It doesn’t have to go out there and win everything to prove a point.
And if it gets a top 10, maybe he can change the name to Happy Donut!
Yoann says in the first comment “pb is trying to do something no other manufacturer has done”, I think Chris Porter and Geometron bikes may take exception to that.
I’m 180 cm on a large G1 and it is fast as hell and yet surprisingly nimble at the same time. Reckon I would be a chunk faster on an XL but at the expense of fun on mellower trails.
One thing that makes the G1 stand out for me is the ability to change bottom bracket height by significant amounts trailside with the mutators. It makes a huge difference to the bikes handling. Super low for berm shredding downhill fun or raised for climbing bias on all day epics. It also means you can get the shock and sag set as you want then tailor your BB height without compromise. Something to think about for the production donut?
Also, the damping platform on the EXT shock is amazing and really lets you make the most of the geometry.
Keep up the good work guys, I’d love to see the Grim Donut on a podium!
Once you go super long and slack, you never go back........
In my book, i'm happy to think that bike selection (same category of bike) makes minor difference but not massive difference. Lines Selection, cornering, aggression, fitness, and technique reflect the majority of the time on the clock.
That said - why don't we have a whole series on the GD???? this is super interesting. PB - you have the opportunity for a LOT of content to be created here that your readers would love!
Production of a bike!
Refinement of a bike!
Testing a Bike!
Racing a Bike!
Production vs Race only bikes
Marketing and Selling a bike!
How much does the bike matter to the rider? to the racer?
PB teams/ Riders - their perspectives!
Horses for Courses - does this work in real life for racers or is it just a phrase?
There's SOOOOO much content waiting to be made!
Line choice obviously makes a huge difference, but you also need to factor in how much confidence a bike gives you to be able to corner at a certain speed or take a certain line. That's not something easy to quantify.
I’d love to see the method @rojo-1 mentioned above showing the time delta, would really show where time was gained and lost.
"Caster angles are generally used to improve a vehicle's steering balance and front-end cornering stability. Caster also will help with high-speed stability. Almost always, the more positive caster you have built into your race car or street car, the better."
The real surprise is that the headtube is still attached. 20 rides later?
Absolutely the GD should be PINK.
Powder Coat the Donut and add sprinkles. It needs a tear down for inspection, perfect timing.
V2 should have an ode to Tim Horton's on it as well.
Instant sponsorship cause even AG likes him some Donuts.
www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1744162/Video-Aussie-daredevil-escapes-injury-rolling-hill-giant-tyre.html
Horses for courses, apples to apples, no one in their right mind would take the Grim on an enduro ride unless they like walking uphill.
But...you don't understand! We could be seeing the Grim Donut doing urban trials!
Pinkbike comments: "I want to see a bike that can't pedal or climb get walked around an XC track".
Seriously - do a run with a Trust fork! (If the carbon could handle it of course. . .)
Grim Donut vs Smiley Baguette
Then go back and find the optimum.
And no, It was not a blind run
.
Yoann no idea if its true you have three balls but at least two of them are HUGE.
Giddyup
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