Guerrilla Gravity Debuts "Smash" 29er

Jul 17, 2017
by Vernon Felton  
Guerrilla Gravity The Smash

Roughly four years after Specialized trotted out their Enduro 29er, long-travel 29ers seem to be the hot young things of the moment. While Guerrilla Gravity’s new 140-millimeter travel Smash model is at least 10 millimeters shy of what’s quickly becoming the new normal these days (for "long-travel 29ers" anyway), the company argues that they’re focusing on quality of travel over sheer quantity.

The Smash, Guerrilla Gravity contends, lives up to its name—a bike designed to smash into and over anything in its path. To wit, the company is billing the Smash as the 29er version of their Megatrail model, with a leverage curve that is a bit softer off the top, yet supportive deeper in the travel for those high-speed, big-hit moments. Here’s the basic breakdown on the new bike, something we’ve cobbled together from the press release, since the new bike has yet to roll through our office doors.

Guerrilla Gravity The Smash

They Decided Not to Go Longer

While the Smash will play nice with forks boasting as much as 160mm of travel, the Smash frame offers up 140 millimeters of squish. Not 160 or 150 millimeters. 140. Yes, Guerilla Gravity could have gone longer. Many riders are expecting more rear travel these days, but the company says that they were purposefully trying to avoid what they see as ills of the long-travel 29 breed: long chainstays, excessively tall bottom brackets and slack actual seat angles.

Those are all laudable goals, though its worth noting that the Slash 29, Enduro 29er and Wreckoning (to name just a few models) aren’t exactly dogs when measured by that same yardstick. Nevertheless, the Guerrilla guys argue that quality of suspension trumps an extra 10 millimeters of squish.

“By really analyzing how the bikes use their travel and making fine tune adjustments to the leverage curve,” reads the press release, “it’s possible to have a slightly shorter travel bike that rides like a longer travel bike downhill, but is going to have a noticeable pedalling advantage uphill…. The Smash will be the ideal bike for riders that have relentlessly rocky and high speed terrain.”

Guerrilla Gravity The Smash

Steep Seat Tube Angles are a Big Deal with These Guys

Once upon a time, every seat angle listed on a geometry chart was an actual seat angle. This was back in the double-diamond frame days when a straight tube spanned the distance between your bottom bracket and saddle. Full-suspension designs, however, soon made straight, uninterrupted seat tubes something of a rarity, which is why geometry charts often list both actual and effective seat-tube angles. To determine the effective seat tube angle, you’re measuring the angle created by an imaginary straight line that runs from the center of the bottom bracket through the center of the saddle. Your seat tube could be bent or s-shaped or angled way the hell back, but the constant is this: We’re measuring what is effectively the seat tube angle, as defined by the saddle’s location in relation to your bottom bracket. Got it? Nope? Someone on Reddit probably explained it better than me and even included a drawing with smiley faces. Moving on...

GG Smasher geometry
Some people, Guerrilla Gravity included, are not particularly keen on this concept and argue, for a variety of reasons, that the actual seat tube angle is still vitally important to a bike’s performance. In a nutshell, if your bike has a particularly slack actual seat tube angle, the effective seat tube angle and cockpit length differ significantly when the saddle is either slammed for descending or at max height for climbing.

Guerilla Gravity puts it this way: “The problem with effective numbers is that they are measured at the height of the top of the head tube and are only valid for one point in space. That point is usually closer to the saddle height used during descending than climbing, and hence, by itself, does not tell the full story. Typically, the steep effective angles use a slack actual angle with significant offset in front of the BB. This can mean even with a steep effective seat tube angle, when the saddle is at climbing height, it is still too far behind the BB. Then, on rolling terrain, lowering the saddle an inch or two makes for a noticeable change in cockpit length.”

For that reason, the new Smash is designed around a 73.5-degree actual (75.8-degree effective) seat tube angle, which the company claims allows for an upright, efficient climbing position at any saddle height.



Guerrilla Gravity The Smash

Two Different Suspension Modes: Crush and Plush

As with other Guerrilla Gravity bikes, the Smash can be run in either “Crush Mode” or “Plush Mode.” The goal here is to allow riders to dial in the suspension platform that’s ideal for their local terrain. Per their press release: “Crush Mode has a more supportive mid-stroke for flow trails and all day trail rides, while Plush Mode is softest off the top, making it the go-to for plowing into rocks at mach-chicken.”

Guerrilla Gravity The Smash

Riders can also choose between an air shock and coil shock. Guerilla Gravity says that designing a platform that works well with a coil shock was a priority given the bike’s “smash” vibe. As a general guideline, GG recommends running an air shock for a lighter weight trail setup and for those that don’t have exceptionally rocky or loose terrain, while a coil shock is ideal for those that prioritize small bump compliance and traction over weight.

Guerrilla Gravity The Smash
Plenty of room for a 29x2.5" tire.

Nope, Carbon is Not Happening Here

Guerrilla Gravity is one of the few outfits designing and building bikes in the United States of America. Labor costs in the US of A being what they are, don’t expect anyone to offer a complete carbon fiber full-suspension frame made in Detroit or Des Moines at a price that any of us could dream of affording. The Smash, in short, is an aluminum affair, made in Guerrilla Gravity’s Denver facility.

Guerrilla Gravity The Smash
Guerrilla Gravity is offering the Smash as a frame-only option or built up in several component kits that include parts from SRAM, Shimano, RockShox, Race Face, e13, DT Swiss, Industry Nine, SR Suntour, MRP, and Maxxis. Frames and build kits are customizable. Riders can choose the fork, shock, control components, brakeset, drivetrain, wheelset, and tires for each model.


Guerrilla Gravity The Smash


Pricing:
Frameset: $2095
• Ride 2 build: $3295
• Ride 1 build: $4295
• Race build: $5295


For specifics on build kits, go to RideGG.com/TheSmash-Build-Kits



216 Comments

  • + 63
 I think the best part of what GG does, is that it Made in USA. Seems they have taken the Torch from Yeti's Durango days and rolled with it. I like that the bikes are raw, not flashy, simple graphics and seem to do well. Not to mention they too offer Demo Days now too, so huge plus for me.
  • + 12
 I saw this bike and just realized that I missed their demo in my area--not sure if they're on the demo truck yet, but next time round I'm there! This bike looks awesome!
  • - 47
flag ermoldaker (Jul 17, 2017 at 4:55) (Below Threshold)
 Except the welding would have been far more consistent if built in the Far East
  • + 28
 @ermoldaker: how ya figure? Anyone can make good or bad welds, it has nothing to do with where you're from.
  • + 39
 @ermoldaker: unlike you, I can walk out to my shop right now and look at a new Megatrail. The welds are lovely.
  • + 16
 I can walk out to my garage now and look at a frame beautifully welded in far-east. Unfortunately, the frame is not properly aligned, so it eats a set of bearings in half season. Or look at Orange, their welds look like sh*t, but the quality control makes for a very low failure rate.
I would say that is does not matter where the frame is welded, but rather if it is welded by the same company which sells it. A good company will take responsibility for their products. For a mass company this will be only a "bad batch".
  • - 5
flag mikkosan (Jul 17, 2017 at 7:09) (Below Threshold)
  • + 20
 If only it fit a bottle cage inside the triangle... Funny thing is this didn't use to matter to me, but being able to go on a short ride without a pack has been great, and I don't think I'll ever buy another mountain bike without one. Plus on really big backcountry rides, I like having the water bottle for some sort of sport drink to go with my hydration pack.
  • + 7
 I have a megatrail, the welds and frame alignment are perfect. I always have other riders checking out the frame and complimenting the welds.
  • + 5
 @BaeckerX1: According to their website it has a cage mount in the same place as the Trail Pistol, though I don't see it in any of the pictures.
  • + 5
 @BaeckerX1: It does, the mounts are above the shock mount toward the front of the triangle. Just no visible in the pictures.
  • + 9
 And their bikes pedal and descend amazing. These are smart company owners who take the time to make a product that really right with if not better than most every bike out there. The ride speaks for itself.
  • + 4
 @BaeckerX1: pretty sure it fits a bottle on the triangle. My Megatrail does, don't see why this wouldn't.
  • + 2
 I think this one does, but I agree. I just bought a bike that doesn't have mounts in the triangle, only on the downtube which IMO, is useless. I really regret buying the bike. It's a deal breaker fir me from now on. @BaeckerX1:
  • + 1
 @DesertFox94: Thanks guys. I see the bolt holes now. It's just hidden in with the cables on the downtube where the GG logo is (there just aren't any bolts in it). Cool. These guys are in my backyard and I've heard nothing but good things about their bikes.
  • + 0
 @BaeckerX1: agree... i used to feel the same way, now short rides are packless and big rides i can take a sporty caffeine beverage.
  • + 2
 @BaeckerX1: 4th picture from the top (side view of the shock area), you can see two mounts just forward of the shock mount on the down tube - hidden under cables in the photo
  • + 0
 @tkrug: Thanks, already found them. See 2 posts up. Smile
  • + 1
 @lkubica: You say "I would say that is does not matter where the frame is welded, but rather if it is welded by the same company which sells it."
You do realize that limits you to only Giant and a handful of small boutique builders (like GG here)?
To the best of my knowledge, Giant is the only bike brand that has their own large scale factory. Yet small-ish companies like Pivot and larger companies like SantaCruz (or huge like Trek or Specialized) manage to make high quality alloy welded frames without welding them themselves.
Ownership or sub-contracting has little to do with quality. I can pay $ to have crappy frames made for me, I can pay $$$ to have near-perfect frames made for me. Its all in the specifications, contracts, and QA/supervision. On the other hand, I could own a factory and make total crap bikes if that was my objective.
I suggest you read the Pinkbike "we want to Taiwan to start a bike company" article to shed more light on this.
  • + 3
 @Inertiaman: I have read this article and the conclusion is that you have to not only pay a lot of $$$, but also have really skilled people out there AND you need a factory which will accept each change you make during production....
I work an IT for a company which does exactly what those factories in far east do for telecomunications industry. If you pay a lot of money, you can change your mind almost at any time, engineers will work with you closely and the final product is very good (although those engineers work in great stress and it takes a manager with godly skills). But if you do not have skilled employees which can specify things well (and control how it is executed), you will end with piece of sh*t. And surprise, some western telco companies are expanding their IT departments again, because the approach of hiring a company which in turn hires 1000 programmers from India does not always give best results. Google for devops approach, which is currently replacing complex layered organisations for software development.
I did not say that a mass produced frame cannot be good. I simply appreciate people with expertise working closely together, as a one team, in the same building. And I want to support them with my money. If they are dedicated, you do not need super-complex quality process.
  • + 2
 the best thing they do is the bikes.Close second is made in USA. Seriously, ride one and you will feel it. I haven't felt stiffness and support from a frame like my couple of Cove frames. My trail pistol dives into rocky, dh trail corners with utmost confidence, and sticks the line.
  • + 1
 @BaeckerX1: You can, with the right type of cage. I use a King Cage that has the mounts as high on the cage as possible (Ron did this for me free of charge a few years back). Side entry cages also work. I can get a full size bottle in my medium trail pistol, with a little frame contact (I use some clear protective tape there). A 20oz bottle will fit no problem
  • + 24
 Guerrilla gravity are important, the big players make up the bulk of the market but we need smaller people like this to do their thing, build in the U S and keep hand made alive 'cos once they are gone they rarely return. That refers to any small company regardless of country, support the little guys if you believe in their product.
  • + 2
 There's a small irony to this, in that if you buy a GG then you draw the ire of the "support your LBS" crowd since you're buying direct.
  • + 9
 @powderturns: You can order a GG bike through any bike shop. There's a Shop Direct sales channel.
  • + 6
 @powderturns: GG is basically my LBS haha about 2 miles from my house. Pretty likely my next frame
  • - 4
flag powderturns (Jul 17, 2017 at 9:08) (Below Threshold)
 @m-t-g: interesting. I'm skeptical they're providing the usual shop 50% margin - I bet it's more like $100, and since the shop isn't stocking the bikes, seems reasonable. My point really was the the three things many people rant about (made in USA, support LBS, and low prices) isn't always possible.
  • + 3
 @powderturns: Have your LBS inquire about it. I'm part of GG, btw.
  • + 0
 @powderturns: a shop should be overjoyed when I walk in willing to pay full retail price! They have no business being annoyed with what bike I'm riding, if they are then give me a bike a cost! A shop needs to deserve my money
  • + 0
 ooops I sent that double
  • + 3
 @powderturns: my experience is different, shops I have taken my megatrail into have the owner and mechs oogling it, then asking questions about how I like it. Granted it has not been in many shops, but I had one owner ask what kind of bike I ride, then ask if I had it with me. We then proceeded out to my car.

I am sure I could find some grumpy shops out there, but not my experience so far.
  • + 6
 @powderturns: What brand out there is supporting a 50% margin on bikes these days?????

Nearly every brand is now 25-35% margin in the nice FS bike category.


Unless you meant 50% markup.
  • + 4
 @bergsteiger: and let's face it. the good shops are evolving. they know not everyone is buying from the LBS. they know they can't compete with all online offerings. the shops that give me crap when i come in with a bike purchased from a direct to consumer brand, lost a customer for life. if you dont give me crap, i will return. a couple shops in the denver area have given me a hard time and i don't go there anymore.
  • + 6
 @powderturns: Hooooo! 50% margin?? Oh lordy, let me know what shops are pulling 50% on their bikes so I can copy their blueprint!

I literally laughed out loud when I saw that man, wow. Maybe in Canadia shops are getting 50%, no way that's happening here in the states. Not even if you get top tier pricing and hit all your preseason sales dates are you getting 50%.

GG is onto something with their inclusion of the LBS without them having to 'buy in' to becoming a stocking dealer. If you give the LBS a chance to make money from selling your product while giving your customer a local channel for support and service, it's a win-win. I look forward to watching this company grow!
  • + 3
 @mikealive: @powderturns:

What Mike Said.

Margins for shop on hi-end bikes are 32-38%, no more...maaaybe into the low 40's for sub 1k bikes from some big brands. 50% is low end accessories.

I believe is supporting the LBS- but have no problem with educated buyers buying direct; or customers who buy direct and don't act entitled when they go to shops, and tip some beers if the service is good.
I also believe in what GG is doing here, gives the bike shops an easy answer to "can I get MUSA??"
  • + 5
 I apologize to all. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote 50% margins. I was probably drinking. The 30-35% range is more in line with my expectations on completed from the big guys, and even that may be under pressure.
  • + 3
 @powderturns: Damn dude, someone owning up on the internet? Respect.
  • + 4
 I just got a chance to see the Smash and most of the line up yesterday. I saw nothing but rows of dimes on those frames. They also gave me the full factory tour. It was rad to see a group of people stoked on bikes making them. If you are in the Denver area, I strongly recommend that you go visit them. Good people, great bikes. But, the showroom has gotten smaller to increase production capacity.
  • + 20
 This article covers some important issues that many manufacturers just don't get - seat angle being a virtual measurement (thus one you can't easily compare from numbers on a geo chart), and the simple fact that the actual angle is too slack on most current bikes for seated climbing. Also the short chainstays are very important on 29er bikes, many companies that don't pay attention to it end up with horribly long chainstays (anything over 17.25" or 438mm is too long for most applications) - happened on most of these impromptu 29er DH bikes which is no doubt part of why some riders disliked them. 429mm is excellent. I'm not a big supporter of 29ers, but I do believe if you're going to do something you should do it right - and switching to 29 creates many new issues that need to be addressed.

Nice to see GG attacking the critical problems head-on and spreading some important propaganda.
  • + 5
 429mm even for XL bikes? If so then the SA should be steepened even more on big sizes to avoid falling over in climbs.

It's good to see this SA question brought up, it's frustrating to hear "just slam your saddle forward" when asking for steep actual seat angles... It's not the same.
  • - 3
 @Uuno: Looks awful as well
  • - 5
flag chyu (Jul 17, 2017 at 3:13) (Below Threshold)
 Looks like someone squeezed through the front triangle. hulk perhaps.
  • - 4
flag bbh13 Plus (Jul 17, 2017 at 4:02) (Below Threshold)
 Personally I prefer longer chain stays, have owned bikes with short and long, recently have bought an ebike with 475mm chain stays and the stability on a fast rough decent is next level. I usually buy large or XL frames, so maybe that is better matched to the longer stays?
  • + 0
 I think STAs are too steep for efficient seated pedalling [for me]. I can always slide forward on the saddle for a really steep climb, but I can't slide back off the rear for the rest of the time I am on the saddle and pedalling. I've tried some really steep STA bikes and it feels like I am riding a unicycle!

The other issue is long legs + steep STA = very high saddle/CG which does not feel awesome either.

I'm with you on the short CS. I ride a large frame [typically] and I don't want a bike with CS longer than 17".
  • + 5
 Steep seat angles are important for climbing and great when you lower your seat and have it out of the way. I have to disagree with short chainstays. They maybe great for manualing but give less traction/grip and make the bike unstable. I have 460mm chainstays on my mtb and love it!
  • + 1
 I think it's a bit silly to assume that many manufacturers don't fully understand the concepts of effective and actual seat tube angle. It can be explained in a few sentences. Not exactly a difficult concept.
  • + 2
 @rwb500: I assume he means that manufacturers don't get how important it is to consumers.

Since I'm writing this comment I may as well make the unrelated remark: If you know the effective top tube, the reach, the actual seat tube angle, and the stack, you can calculate your *exact* position relative to both the BB and the head tube for any given seat height.

Some people argue that the listed measurements for a bicycle should be something other than the ETT, R, etc., but those numbers are sufficient to calculate any other relevant measure one cares to name.
  • + 3
 @SintraFreeride:

I agree with you, especially about chainstay length.

I have done isolated test on my bike with chainstays ranging from 415-435-455 and the 455 by far is the most stable, best cornering (fast or slow) and best climbing option. As someone who Haskell developed skills hopping wheeling and manualing it is not difficult to do dispite the longer stays, actually easier in some regards. I have a 422 reach and 64-67 degree head angle (talas)
  • + 14
 I was innocently thinking "this bike has a nice punk rock vibe " when, reading the mumbo jumbo on their website I found this: "the punk rock spirit of Joe Strummer lives on in The Smash, inspiring riders to assail anything in their path."
Clumsy and cheesy to the max.

Well, ok, it made me feel old and stupid. How can I possibly feel "punk" when I buy a very expensive (although not the most expensive) toy? How can I feel free when I just fell in the oldest marketing trap? Can screaming that you are different make you really different, or you're just a pathetic wannabe?

Ethical and philosophical turmoil aside, I really like this mountain bike.
  • + 2
 You're supporting a up-start small rider owned company, and it gets you up an moving!? Sounds punk to me!
  • + 11
 Nice to see that Guerilla is addressing the real vs effective seat tube angle problem. It's a shame that they do not address the chainstay length in proportion to the frame size as well. We get that carbon bikes (molds cost and all) skimp on this, but if you are fabricating frames from aluminium i.e. having a greater production flexibility there should be no reason not to have varying CS lengths on offer as well. Like Nicolai does.
  • + 3
 Norco addresses this by moving the suspension points size to size. This allows them to have different rear centers with all the same rear end parts.
  • + 3
 @Chris97a: unfortunately Norco likes slack seat tube angles. Adding 5mm to a chainstay does not make up for having your a$$ on top of the rear axle on a climb. STA should get steeper as sizes get bigger otherwise the fore aft balance gets wonky for taller riders.
  • + 4
 @bogey:

At least Norco is one of the few companies who don't consiously lie about effective seat tube angles. They actually show the ESTA getting slacker as sizes go up, whereas most companies don't compensate for this in the frame and just lie on the geo charts.
  • + 2
 @j-t-g: true!
  • + 1
 Yes this is true.
Short Chainstay lengths (430) are for newbies and short front centers , not for going fast
  • + 9
 Seat tube length? Very relevant for taller guys with shorter legs if you want to be able to run longer dropper posts
  • + 6
 Nm found it on their site... long and very disappointing
  • + 6
 @timmy1701:i think they can make with shorter seat tube, they have before, just ask 'em
  • + 5
 @timmy1701: Agreed. Cant believe companies are not getting this. Everybody should look to the Ibis Mojo HD4, Nomad v4 and Kona Process for some proper seat tube lengths.
  • + 1
 Looks good and raw
Seat angle right

BUT then.....
Seat tube length way too long - 495 on a Large....533 on XL !!!
Stacks also 20/30mm too high on L/XL to be in sensibly in mid range so riders can go flat or a big riser bar.
Chainstay length they bottled it and went short rather than going variable length CS, OR for a sensible mid range length to suit all frame sizes (435-440).
  • + 10
 I thought the geometry is pretty good, note that the Reach is huge on these, the size S is the same length in reach as my L sized specialized Enduro and YT Jeffsy. You can probably ride a smaller size for this brand with a bike that fits pretty well (unless you are a gorilla, in which case I apologise)
  • + 6
 @Travel66: it turns out xl is for tall guys -who would have thought. in all seriousness: the large has a 490 reach (with a fairly high stack).even i (5.11) can run a 495 seattube -not so sure about a 490 reach though. the sizes are fine gorillas and tyrannosaurus rex will always have problems (staying alive)
  • + 2
 Me 195cm, 97cm inseam on XL Capra (510mm ST) with 150mm reverb 14cm out of the seat tube... btw reach is 458mm, so what you are talking about?
  • + 1
 @pulDag: are talking to me ? reach on L is 490 seattube on M is 457 ?!
  • + 1
 @optimumnotmaximum: nope, speaking to timmy..
  • + 2
 @Travel66: GG will make you whatever you want. I have a Trail Pistol that they call Medium+. It's a medium seat tube and head tube with the reach and top tube length of the large frame. Just right for my 6' self.
  • + 4
 @Travel66: I completely disagree. My XL GG Trail Pistol, although a tad tall in standover is perfect in reach and stack. Allows me to spec a flat 10mm bar and still use spacers to vary bar height. I cannot stand the low stacks on most bikes these days. It requires 30mm rise bars and 50mm in spacers to get right for us taller guys. If you want it lower just slam it on the headset.
  • + 3
 @bmxsnox: the "extra medium" looks sooo good. Every time I see it, I think of Lord Helmet saying "light speed is too slow, go to Ludicrous Speed!"
  • + 0
 What's the deal with GG charging extra for an XL frame? Surely it can't cost that much more to make than a large
  • + 4
 @chize: It does cost more to make an XL. That size uses unique machined parts that are made in small quantities, and significantly more expensive.
  • + 1
 @m-t-g: that makes sense. Thanks for the info!
  • + 3
 @Mugen: YA! Finally my flexy torso and monkey arms can be happy on a medium! Large starts at 6'1...whoaaa look their sizing makes sense for the american market!
  • - 2
 @m-t-g: then do what every other manufacturer does and spread the cost across the other sizes. Silly business decision imo.
  • + 1
 @bogey: Being an XL and having a son who is XXL size. I would rather incur the added fee in order to have one vs. no acceptable option as other brands choose to not even accomodate us gorillas.
FWIW-Nicolai has an upcharge for the larger sizes as well. That was my plan B before ordering my Trail Pistol.
  • + 1
 @chasejj: I'm an XL or XXL and can find other options with suitable geo without an upcharge. I'd hate to see how much more my life would cost if I paid extra for everything that was bigger (shoes, clothing, buffets, etc).

BTW, I think this is the best geo I've seen on a bike in a long time. Just silly to pay more for bigger sizes.
  • + 4
 @bogey: Well...I rode mine tonight on a short loop I do during the week. rode well uphill with good kinematics. I did run it in climb mode which on the RS SD RC3 works much better than the Fox EVol I came off. It maintains a nice feel instead of riding like a HT.
Coming down is Holy Shit fast coming from my 27.5 Turner Burner. Lots of this is the DHF/DHR2 WT tires and 29 hoops I'm sure. But the slack front end and long spacious front center really allowed for a deceptive level of speed to build up. I know there is more as I backed off to save my poor dog from exhaustion trying to keep up.
I dig it.
BTW- I wondered how the long ETT would feel (it is like 60mm longer than my previous XL Turner. It felt unreal natural and did not feel stretched out even with a longer 65mm stem. I have never felt this comfortable on any bike....30 years and multiple custom frames built just for my monkey ass dimensions. Nothing is close.
  • + 1
 @MmmBones:

True, but it costs extra. Sad in 2017.
  • + 2
 @bmxsnox: that sounds good...
  • + 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: you mean guerilla?
  • + 2
 @Vido: Gorillas good and T-Rex's are just Shit Outa Luck.
  • + 1
 @Vido: nope i was refering to bodytypes - and animals having issues staying alive, obviously
  • + 9
 if it rides half good the way it looks, it's gonna be sick! I love to see smaller companies here, bikes made with love.
  • + 5
 These bikes were getting a lot of love in my circle of friends until one broke a little outside the 1 year warranty. I think lifetime warranties are too much to ask but 1 year is not acceptable. Neither was the modest discount offered to buy a new frame to replace the one that broke through a weld and wasn't abused. Maybe this was a fluke?

I hope one day we can get to 3-5 year transferable warranties. Boggles my mind that every time I sell a $5k bike I've ridden for 8 months that it has zero warranty.
  • + 2
 Transferable warranties definitely! Companies should be standing by their product not vouching for the original owner. Product doesn't suddenly become crap just because it has changed hands.
  • + 2
 I was just looking at an Ibis Mojo HD3. Frame warranty is 7 years, very nice!
  • + 2
 @Endurahbrah:
Brand new HD3 is in my bike stand! First 50 mile rip was stellar, no complaints climbing 8000ft with the stock 2.6" Nobby Nics.
  • + 9
 i want one.
  • + 4
 just great ! handmade no bullshit no marketing madness, coil possible no geometron insanity (could be slightly lower and slacker though)
  • + 2
 Im really curious to hear a long term review of this bike. Evertime I see a new GG bike I am always intrigued on how it will perform but lately the reviews and comments from a few other people on the inside is "Generic Feeling"

Im not convinced that is an overly bad thing, does generic somewhat mean predictable? If so predictable also meams easy to setup and fine tune and thats never a bad thing.
  • + 7
 I'm not a bike reviewer, but I've been out maybe 50 or 60 times on my Trail Pistol. On the boring/generic side, it doesn't squeak, there's no play at the pivot points, and it hasn't betrayed me with any really awkward landings. On the ride feel side of things, it's very stout in the sense it holds a line through the rough very well, but it also feels very direct when plowing chunk, without the magic carpet sensation of a huge travel bike. This doesn't bother me. From a geometry standpoint, it felt very upright with a steeper seat tube angle and a higher front end when I first started riding it. Now it feels like second nature climbing this way. I also like how the seat gets straight out of my way when I drop it. Finally, the Trail Pistol doesn't pop off of stuff like some other bikes with shorter wheel bases. I'll give that up, though, when I'm going like a bat out of hell down a steep straightaway with the sense that bike is stable as stable can be. That being said, it manuals fine when you need it to. In all of those senses, it is a straightforward and predictable bike with no quirks in ride or suspension. I dig it.
  • + 5
 Finally!!!! Someone is talking about mid-stroke support!!!!
  • + 1
 And RS to ruin it all.......

BTW all you guys talking about angles etc. being just off what you want they can do anything custom for extra $$$. So you want to make some tweaks give them a call and they can get you pricing for the changes.
  • + 1
 So get it add a frame sans shock, put on a DVO Topaz and Diamond... Would be a sick build
  • + 1
 @tehllama: Here's the rub. Maybe soon they can all do it. But GG is specing the Metric shocks which is just ever so slightly not compatible with the old conventional system . Most everyone is catching up but we are probably 6 months away from the freedom to swap out shocks easily. I wanted a Fox DPX2 but no go. That said I am impressed with the RS based on my 1 st ride.
  • + 2
 Nice to see a company not following the big company orthodoxy and doing things their way!
Wonder if they'll ever be available in NZ?
  • + 4
 You can get Guerilla Gravity's rad bikes in NZ.
I bought a Megatrail off GG a year or so ago. It doesn't work out cheap (import tax killed me! Should have known better...), but it's a killer bike. The team at GG are amazing to deal with too!!
  • + 13
 If you are a small company and do what big companies are doing you may as well kill yourself before you loose all the money you invested. Doing things differently is the only way to survive, but I would not look for too much "keep it real" substance in it. That's why I'm like "ORLY?" when I see one of those taking a piss commercials from Transition. They do exactly what everyone else is doing (making bikes in Taiwan and China with geos and sus similar to big brands - ok they did start up as a genuinely unique brand but they aren't anymore, not even by a tiny bit) but because they are a medium sized comp, they can get away with that marketing strategy. So they wave this "in your face" persona as if they were standing for something bigger, but they don't.

But well, I like that Guerilla Bike, not a bad choice at all. Good price and I'm a sucker for raw alu
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: Transition = style and marketing over genuine substance. GG look to be the real deal.
  • + 11
 @WAKIdesigns: I find it odd that your criteria for "keepin it real" means that you can't have your bikes built in Taiwan.

Let this serve as a cordial invite to come by and ride in the PNW sometime. The guys at Transition are good folks, even if you don't like their marketing angle. Need a linkage bolt for a bike from 4 years ago? Hold on while one of the dudes runs home to pull it out of a spare frame in his garage. That's keeping it real in my book.

I have a feeling that if they didn't have customers asking for carbon bikes, they never would have made them. The transition boys seem to ride that line between doing what they want, and doing enough to keep their customers happy. If they are cool dudes and make bikes that rip, that's enough for me.
  • + 7
 @mikealive: agree 100%. Good people make a good company. Not marketing or geometry or production location.
  • + 6
 @north-shore-bike-shop: I don't think the debate as whether the Transition guys were good or not (as I think they probably are) but it is whether their bikes are really any different to the rest.
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: completely disagree. Transition bikes are probably some of the funnest on the market. Their customer service is totally unmatched IMO. Their marketing is funny/dumb depending on your sense of humor, but the bikes speak for themselves.
  • + 1
 @briceps: I am only going off what I see on the internerd (as i've never owned a Transition). I like their marketing as it's very tongue in cheek and their customer service is probably great. I'm not saying they're not fun or great to ride as I think most bikes are probably great to ride these days. I just see "generic" bikes that look similar to about half a dozen similar designs that are out there at the moment.

Ok they have dipped their toe in the forward geometry pool which is good but they could have gone a bit further and become one of the drivers of the geometry revolution (which will happen - like it or not).

The reason I like GG is they are still making bikes in the US which means they can change things quickly if needed and improve if things don't work. They're Aluminium (I have a healthy dislike for most carbon bikes) and they're a little different to the rest. I see them as a sort of American Nicolai - a bit industrial and raw but beautiful nonetheless.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: Fair enough, but then the debate becomes "does different automatically equal good (or better)?" And does different equal "keeping it real"? Transition is one of only a very few that has begun to play with fork offset to affect handling at speed. Is that different enough to earn back some realness credits, or does that not count enough on the PinkBike Cred-O-Meter™?
At the end of the day they all want to sell us a product in exchange for our money, even locally made builders. So this keeping it real thing is nonsense--the brand of bike I ride isn't a way for me to get some strange 'trail cred', or prove that I am in other words "special" or "cool". I ride what works for me, and what I personally like--and I like dudes running a company because they love to ride mountain bikes. GG gets a thumbs up, Transition gets a thumbs up!
  • - 2
 @mikealive: nobody says they are pricks. Also do you think that Jason Chamberlain from Spec is not a cool dude to ride with? C'm on... i met a dick or two from the industry in Val Di Sole but majority of these guys are cool. It is some whiny ass drama queens on Pinkbike who see big companies as temples of evil (while they ride their bikes...) I rode Covert and Smuggler for a very short time and haven't found them any different. As I wrote before, their first bikes like Bottlerocket were visionary, but now they are producing pack fill. It's like this vid from Ibis laughing at Enduro, I mean hello, that is hypocrisy at it's best. Ibis makes the top 3 of the most Rnduro bro brands out there. Know your place FFS...
  • + 1
 @mikealive: Different doesn't automatically make it better, infact there is more chance that different is probably worse, however there is a chance it could be better.

Chris Porter (Mojo) has been playing with fork offsets for years. It's nothing new, they're just jumping on the bandwagon.

I would far rather give my hard earned ca$h to Transition rather than one of the biggies for sure however would go GG over Transition if I had the choice and lived in the US. Given I like on the other side of the pond it will be a local who gets my £££. Think global act local and all that.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: that's fair. I'm sure GG has great customer service, and I love that I can walk to their factory from my office. But I've ridden a few and they feel very different from this last gen of Transition's. Both are great companies that make great bikes, just depends on what you're going for. I'll be curious to see if the new breed of SBG bikes are as playful as all their previous bikes, I have my doubts.
  • + 1
 @briceps: I think SBG will be good. Check out www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/pushing-the-limits-of-fork-offset-an-experiment-45343

It's a few years old but the science is there. They may not be as playful but will be faster.
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: LOL, yes, "just jumping on the bandwagon". Right. Again, they are one of what...3 brands doing such things for 2018?

And I agree with you man, I'm not trying to bash GG in any way here. I'm happy to see them getting coverage, and the couple people I know that ride them love their bikes. I guess to clear up the point I was making, yes, we're on the same page in that a person should vote with their money. I just don't believe I'm getting anything in the way of 'cool cred', regardless of the bike I'm buying. Call me jaded from years of working in shops I guess.

@WAKIdesigns At a shop level, I wanted to stock good bikes from companies that treated us well, and threated the people who bought their bikes well. Those are the brands I wanted to support. Transition and Kona stand out as awesome bikes for the PNW, and great people to deal with. Santa Cruz? Not so much anymore.
Have you ever looked at the brand contracts for Spesh, Trek, or Scott? It's nuts what they require of you in order of the 'privilege' of stocking their product. So is Jason C fun to ride with? Probably, but his company still sucks. Transition doesn't require that a shop stock X dollars worth of house brand handlebars or have Y number of bikes on the floor at any given time. At a rider level, I personally wouldn't want a Spesh, but that doesn't make their bikes sh*t and doesn't mean I think less of you if YOU want to ride one... again, because I don't base my opinion of people on the things they own. We're all just trying to get down the hill and have some fun at the end of the day, that's the only "keeping it real" I care about Smile
  • + 2
 @fartymarty: Shorelines Cycles is the UK distributor of Guerrilla Gravity. So, you can buy local and buy GG Smile
  • + 1
 @mikealive: at a shop level it's a whole another story Wink and I can understand where you are coming from
  • + 2
 group hug! Let's all go for a ride. Someone invite Sinyard too.
  • + 1
 @north-shore-bike-shop: I f*cking love group hugs Smile
  • + 1
 @m-t-g: Yesh I know but I will support the little guys over here (if you do the same over there).
  • + 3
 Looks like I picked the right week to be in ColoRADo to be able visit the GG crew...
  • + 3
 Love what you guys are doing. Next time you're in the PNW I'm gonna come see what ya'll got going on.
  • + 2
 i saw these guys at my local TH 3 years ago when i was on my honzo and asked them if they had any 29ers... "no we don't do 29ers." glad they came around..
  • + 2
 Sorry if we gave that attitude, it was certainly not the intention. The Pedälhead (as a 29er) was in the plans at that point.
  • + 1
 @m-t-g: i'd love to try one.. any demos coming up in bend or.?
  • + 3
 @NeilsElbek: The Crush Bus was up in the PNW recently, but there are a number of BAMF's in Oregon that we could set you up with to demo one. Shoot an email over to Bikes@RideGG.com and ask.
  • + 0
 I applaud GG for their efforts in doing it all in house. Their bikes numbers don't really blow me away and their marketing speak on travel quality is just that. Thank you Vernon for calling them on that (Wreckoning, Enduro, etc). Actually, the most badass bike GG does IMHO is the Pedalhead. The design, tubing and welds on that one are truly unique.
  • + 5
 Both of those bikes have the bent nail seat tube angle that is specifically mentioned in the article as a trade off of travel longer than 140mm
  • - 3
 Also why would a customer buy this bike over GG's "Shred Dogg" or vice versa? The bikes are virtually identical.
  • + 4
 @hellbelly: Shred Dogg uses 27.5" wheels, and The Smash uses 29" wheels. Choose according to your preference
  • + 0
 @m-t-g: My bad. Wrong bike, same comments. The Trail Pistol and the Smash still seem extraordinarily similar.
  • + 1
 @hellbelly: Ah, that makes more sense. The Smash has longer rear travel, a beefier rear end, Plush Mode/Crush Mode are tuned for two different leverage curves vs 29/27+ like the Trail Pistol. But, there is some overlap, and the Trail Pistol is going back to 120mm rear travel only, defaulting to larger 29er (or 27+) tires.
  • + 1
 What’s attractive about this bike is that it looks like something that you just. wouldn’t. care. about thrashing it about! Unlike my carbon beauty, first thing I did was cover it in Invisishield and baby it all the time.
  • + 0
 I almost started riding a guerrilla gravity DH about 5 months ago, but long story short (wanted to convert a GG/DH 26 into 27.5 and didn't want to just try squeezing a 27.5 wheel into a 26" frame) and was told by someone there over the phone that a rear triangle (aluminum) would cost me just shy of $900. lol. that by itself turned me away and I ended up building an amazing Pivot Phoenix. no regrets..
  • + 5
 No carbon? No problem.
  • + 5
 Nice Dakota Ridge shots.
  • + 1
 Yep, Smashing Dakota Ridge was pretty fun.
  • + 4
 looks good
  • + 2
 looks like they took the Megatrail and Shred Dogg frame and used a different seatstay to make this Smash up. Smart.
  • - 1
 Any idea on when the tandem will be out?

Also, in the first pic what's holding the bike up? Was a stand just photoshopped out?

And, in the second pic it looks like a guy was just photoshopped into a rock garden. Maybe its the way the photo was taken but dang.
  • + 5
 First pic: I went along for the photo shoot on the trail (which was Dakota Ridge), and crouched down, held the bike up by the rear wheel, and let go, pulled my arm out of the shot momentarily while our photographer snapped a burst of shots. Then, grabbed the rear wheel again before the bike fell over. That's a common technique for outdoor bike photos like this.

Second pic: that's me, and I hiked up the hill and hit that drop about 5 or 6 times in 95ºF heat for that shot Smile The depth of field is set to be fairly narrow (background out of focus, bike in focus), which gives it that look.
  • - 1
 @m-t-g: Oh nice, thanks for the insight.
What trail is the second pic from? The new section of dakota ridge?
  • + 1
 @hbar314: The second pic is on the traditional Dakota Ridge, it's "the drop" where everybody takes pics. At 1.65 miles in on this trail map: www.mtbproject.com/trail/605246/dakota-ridge?search=1&type=trail&method=resultsPage&query=dakota%20ridge
  • + 2
 proving that you don't need to go to Taiwan to start a bike company...
  • + 1
 Respectable fucking weight on their best build. sub 29 lbs for an aluminum frame.
  • + 1
 My super HD Trail Pistol build is 31 and change. With some onboard tools and pedals. Its in the Bike Checks section. DH Wheels,Fox 26 20mm,Sixc DH crank and Bars, Fox Tranfer, Eagle X01 and Saint Quad Brakes
  • + 2
 @burnskiez replacement for the salsa
  • + 1
 Any mention of its sale in the UK market. Im so keen for this. Like actually.
  • + 2
 John over at Shorelines is your guy: shore-lines.co.uk. He recently got his first shipment of GGs.
  • + 1
 I'm sure it's already been covered (or I just skimmed past it), but is the tube/co2/lever strap standard equipment?
  • - 1
 A lot of overlap with the Trail Pistol, no? Surprised they didn't go 150mm. A lot of the TP's have been getting sold as long stroked to 130mm models anyway. Hmmmm. Wuzzup @m-t-g?
  • + 1
 My GGTP is a Long Stroked 130. Right now it is a 160 fork as well. Since Fox is late with the 2018 shorter 36 airshafts.
  • + 5
 150mm rear travel would have required either long chainstays, too tall of a BB, or seat tube geometry that sucks. Focus was put into making it ride like a 29er Megatrail that folks have been asking for. With some tuning of kinematics, that feel can be had with 140 travel.
The 130mm Pistola configuration is being discontinued due to what you mentioned: 120, 130, 140 rear travel 29 options is a bit much.
  • + 2
 Can't wait for my new bike, nice work!
  • + 2
 Why offer HA with a 130mm fork but BB with a 140mm? Is that a typo?
  • + 1
 It writes 140 on the GG site
  • + 14
 @jollyXroger: or else it gets the hose again
  • + 2
 @MmmBones: for some reason that got me. Hahah
  • + 1
 why not just advertise the actual seat angle in relation to the BB since that's the actual important number.
  • + 2
 Because these companies think we cannot do some basic trigonometry?
  • + 2
 "Reach / Standing Reach" and "Butt to Bar / Seated Reach" are the dimensions you need for cockpit fit.
  • + 3
 @fartymarty: How hard would it be to implement an online calculator for ESTA and B2B given the seat height measurement?
  • + 3
 @jollyXroger: probably not very difficult if you know what you are doing (which I don't). It would be very useful to be able to plug in the manufacturers numbers and visually compare bikes.
  • + 2
 @fartymarty: Unfortunately, manufacturer given numbers are lacking (missing seat tube offset) to do make proper calculation on your own, but manufacturers could simply let you enter a single inseam or seat length (from BB) number and voila!

Spot is modifiying their actual STAs in order to keep the same effective STAs across frame sizes. They also provide two additional tables to accout for changes in STA and ETT given the saddele position or an offset in seatpost. Very nice cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1430/1526/files/Geo_Chart_Mayhem_29_R.0.jpg?v=1490112824

Rear center (chainstays) are also longer in size XL.
  • + 1
 @jollyXroger: That is pretty awesome. Nice work by Spot.
  • + 2
 @jollyXroger: You don't need the seat tube offset. Effective top tube measures the distance from top of head tube to where your saddle would be if it were at the same height as the TT. If you know the actual ST angle you can then calculate how much further back your saddle will be when raised to any given height.

I have always found the geometry numbers companies use (effective STA, TT, etc) to be effective abstractions of the important geometry of a bicycle. I have never ridden a bike with 25" eTT that fit me, for example, no matter the seat height, but I have yet to ride one with a 23.5-24" eTT that didn't.
  • + 1
 @lubb1: Yes. If only (@size XL) it were:
- 25 mm longer in reach,
- 2 degree slacker HA,
- 20mm more travel,
- 2" shorter seat tube. Smile
  • + 1
 @jollyXroger: Isn't that a Geometron?
  • + 1
 @chasejj: Hm. Might be.
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: I stand corrected. Given both real and effective STAs it is possible to calculate the further values. Problem is, some manufacturers don't give real STAs.
  • + 1
 I've never been a fan of Smash...I prefer real mashed potatoes. This bike on the other hand, I am a fan of.
  • + 2
 Finally a bike that fits'in betweeners' like me
  • + 2
 Megatrail or smash for half a dozen park days a year?
  • + 1
 What wheel size do you prefer? Both bikes are made to easily handle that. Megatrail: switch to Gravity Mode for park riding. The Smash: Plush Mode for park, and Crush Mode for trail works great.
  • + 0
 I wouldn't buy a bike based on 6 days of use a year. Buy what works best for the rest of your riding and if you have to rent a bike for the park.
  • + 3
 @vikb: my megatrail is my full time go anywhere do anything bike. 0 regrets, 0 bike lust. Could I probably be a shade faster on mild xc trails on some other bike? Likely yes, but don't care one bit.
  • + 1
 @vikb: that's $500 a year in rentals
  • + 1
 @m-t-g: I'm still beating the snot out of my 26" Uzzi VPX haha

I've never even ridden a 27.5 or 29. still trying to demo a GG.
  • + 0
 @schofell84: so you're planning to ride this bike for 8 years (or more) to make up for the initial investment?
  • + 1
 @schofell84: In that case it would be preference of what you'd rather try and what your terrain is like. Bigger wheels are better for keeping speed over rough in more wide open terrain, while smaller wheels are better when changing direction quickly.
  • + 2
 @vikb: @zhendo I got the impression @schofell84 was asking about a bike that sees mostly trail riding, plus about 6 days of park days per year. In other words, a trail bike that wouldn't flinch at doing some bike park riding as well. It seems reasonable to influence the decision to a bike that can handle all of that riding, and not require spending additional money on a rental when your "one bike" can do it all well. Bikes are expensive, and that's why the Megatrail, The Smash (and other GG bikes) have some adjustments built in to cover a wide range of riding.
  • + 1
 @vikb: I would buy a DH rig if all I wanted if for was park use. I want a trail bike that can handle around half a dozen park days a year on top of normal northeast riding.
  • + 1
 @schofell84: Ah, important clarification! I thought you were going full dentist on us Smile

Depends what sort of park riding you like, but if it's jumping, the MegaTrail will likely be more fun. And have more suspension. I've had a shorter travel 29er, and while they really do plow over stuff surprisingly well, there's no substitute for a healthy amount of good quality suspension when you're lapping the park. At least in my opinion.
  • + 2
 Hulk ____!
  • + 5
 Smash
  • + 1
 440mm reach for a small ! ?
  • + 1
 Note with the steep actual seat tube angle that the reach numbers are longer than typical.
  • - 2
 @m-t-g: Wrong, reach number is acquired from the bottom bracket/ top of the headtube.
  • + 2
 @enrico650: Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. I didn't mean that the reach number measurement involves the seat tube angle, but the frame is designed with a combination of steep seat tube angle and longer than average reach. They go hand in hand for something that rides well.
  • + 2
 @m-t-g: It looks pretty rad, but forgive my confusion on this one, doesn't reach become independent of the seattube angle as soon as you drop your saddle and start descending? This seems like a very long bike.
  • + 1
 @NickB01: Of course, but once you drop the seat and start descending, the long reach & wheelbase is pretty awesome. It does seem long, but it's better, in our opinion. When we went to the longer geometry, the chainstays were shortened as part of the move, which helps keep it lively when needed, and stable when needed. Riders have been pretty stoked on this geometry when they try it.
  • + 1
 Anybody know if this can fit 27.5+ too?
  • + 0
 Looks like two different people welded up the seat stays. Kind of dig the high school shop class vibe though.
  • + 2
 Lemme Smash!
  • + 0
 lagunya guerilla radio rage against.
  • + 0
 WHERE THE BOTTLE CAGE MOUNTS!!! That not enduro!! Haha
  • + 1
 Neat!
  • + 1
 Smashed em bro!
  • - 3
 arrrggg why do manufacturers build 29rs with a top tube designed to break your ballz?!?! Yup super high front end = super high top tube. Are we suppose to wear a cup when we ride?
  • + 9
 ...well it is called 'the smash...'
  • + 3
 Are you going slow enough when you crash to land on the top tube?
  • + 1
 High top tube is better for Sagan style tuck.
  • - 1
 Or just buy a Wreckoning. Low bb, short stays, climbs great in the saddle.
  • - 3
 No one likes $$ from the 26 crowd these days!
  • + 6
 The 26 crowd doesn't spend money
  • - 1
 No water bottle.mounts?
  • + 3
 I see mounts for one on the top of downtube. There's no hardware in the picture so it's not super noticeable.
  • + 2
 I think the frame has 'em. If you look at the photo of the frame right above the section "Two Different Suspension Modes: Crush and Plush" I could make two holes for a bottle mount to go. Same location as my Trail Pistol, which is an awesome bike itself.
  • + 3
 There is a water bottle mount in the front triangle. Look at the pics on the website
  • + 2
 I ordered my GGTP with 2 mounts. I can fit a 21oz Insulated Camelbak bottle in the triangle.
  • + 2
 @m-t-g: Any chance you have the weight of the bike pictured at the beginning of the article?
  • - 1
 ...
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