High Voltage: The Inside Line on Electronic Shifting and Suspension

 I'm literally going to go crazy if I have to charge another item I'm my house ! Even if it's only once a month it's still once a month too many.

 A man who buys something he doesnt need is stealing from himself.

 Stfu shimano and give us a gearbox

 "hasnt been cable-actuated stuff on your car for... 30 years"...... Yeah..... that is false

 I think it's funny that Vernon is questioning who has 3 grand to drop on drivetrain components. Uh, the same people who are dropping 3 grand on a frameset and another 3 grand on a wheelset........

 I don't like electronic shifting because I kinda hate electronic shit. I'm not against it but I just have enough with my laptop, the rest of the time I like to feel disconnected of the electronic stuff, that's why I spend my money on bike things and not in changing my old basic cellphone from 2012. Riding makes me feel more free, lost, aware, disconnected from the internet and the world, I feel that any electronic thing "soak up" what I feel while riding. I guess I could get used to it, but if I have the choice I rather have mechanical shifting.

 When will these guys understand its reliability in currant products that we need not new stuff that will also fail. Having had 3 KS posts blow up seeing them putting loads of R&D into a electronic post when thier current stuff lasts 4 months before it becomes a pogo stick is really really frikin frustrating.

 I just see it as a useless great idea. A designer wet dream of bikes without cables. Maybe for racers at the top of their game looking for the slightest edge, otherwise i don't see the point.

 I have a mechanical dropper post on my singlespeed fatbike, friction shifters on my steel gravel bike. And i have as much fun on those bikes as I do on my superduper all mountain bike. With hydraulic brakes, suspension, seatpost and 10 cable actuated gears. We arent enjoying the sport because of more technology, its just making things easier, which is what mountain biking isnt supposed to be!

 180° South
Do we really need to tap the grid even more just to go for a ride? Yes it works and it works well but do we really need it to enjoy our shrinking wilderness

 Less gears, more beers!

 Just get out and ride your bike. Enjoy and cherish what you have... So simple and so hard to do.

 Interesting stuff. Even if not for everybody, every bike or every budget, electrical shifting (and more) is here as an option. Won't hit the masses yet with their current price, but it will go down.
But Vernon, I predict you will achieve your goal on pinkbike in no time:
"I'm hoping, instead, to spark a conversation..."
Now let's see how that goes. Will be fun.

Shoot...

 Di2 is the best thing I have used to date that gives me the desired range I like on my trail bike. I hear and understand why it is not for everyone. I think about my drivetrain far less with it, it has proven to be durable and has provided quicker and more precise shifting. It is also far more stupid proof that is given credit for. My 1X on my all mountain bike irks me every ride. It jumps gears when ratcheting over obstacles, lacks range (not Eagle) and is slow and awkward in comparison.

 But the SRAM guide is right on topic. Appreciate what seems to be a honest genuine opinion. Good? Yes!
Mandatory! Hell no!
You need one? YOU decide ( with veto power from your bank account, or loved half)

 Who knew that Zach Galifianakis worked for Shimano?

 To all the people saying that you don´t need it: the same was said about front suspension 25 years ago, the same was said about rear suspensions 20 years ago and the same was said about disc brakes 15 years ago. How many of you ride without suspension and disc brakes? Do you need it? NO, actually you don´t!! But it makes the ride a lot more fun AND safe.

 Just keep the tech industry out of the bicycle industry, please.

Most greedy bunch of extortive bastards that modern capitalism has ever seen (talking about software shenanigans here). The ability to manipulate product functionality post sale is just too much for weasles to resist.

 Some marketing mumbo jumbo in there, but there are points being made. However, reliability! I was a mechanic for many years. Actually, I was a really good mechanic for years, but you can't raise a family on $12 an hour.

When I build a new personal bike from the ground up for myself or a family member (or upgrade to the next gear count) here is how it goes. I put it in the rack, do my magic with MY tricks and then I go for a short ride. I force shifts and run thru the gears like I have no clue what I'm doing. Then I turn the barrel adjuster a 1/4 turn, I'm good for 3-4 years so long as nothing gets bent, meets a stick or goes under water. I've ridden 8,000+ miles on the same parts and cable/housing (with new cassettes and chains every 1,500 miles) I literally don't worry. Anyone can jump on any of my bikes and just go. I also successfully run a 2x and a 3x system with no dropped chains or miss shifts.

The only hesitation I have with electric, charging, "riding out the ride" and price. You can't fashion a shifter out of a stick for a broken cable or mangled derailleur 7 miles from home with electric. And if you did wrap an E-derailleur, I wouldn't always be able to run out and buy a new. Even online, an XT on sale, $175 maybe? That's not cheap. You can buy 2, 11spd XT rear cable derailleurs at full price and still buy a 12 pack and a frozen pizza with the extra cash for $175. Hope electric is not forced on us... I'm really good with making old stuff work though, so I'll be underground, MadMax style.

 I think ( Options ) is key. As one ride rider stated if we are not moving forward we are not moving. There is something to be said about doing old school. Cantilever brakes, friction shifters and no suspension. But that same individual that wants to maybe occasionaly ride that most likley drives a car built in the last ten years. The one product i want electronic is my seatpost. Not just the elimanation of it being cable operated but motorized. Being able to program the positions I want it to stop at and the speed it travels. Think about being able to tap a button once your seat drops quickly to the first position, tap it twice it drops to the second position or if you press and hold th button it drops to the lowest postion all while the rider is standing. No need to drop your butt. Then to beable to raise it at a slower rate in the same manner. This is what I want to go totally electronic/motorized.

 I can't wait to get electronic shifting as it took me soooo long to learn how to commit to a shift mechanically, I was just in that 'shall I, shan't I' mode, finger hovering on the trigger, unsure of whether to go for it or not, this will be such a game changer. Honestly don't know how I've managed to persevere without this in my life.

 I've been mtn biking for almost 30 years. I'm also an engineer in the bike industry designing and manufacturing some of the "elite" level equipment that gets made fun of on Pinkbike.

That being said, I don't want any f*cking electronics on my bike. I really love riding my bike, and not dicking around with electronics. I don't even like it when one of my stravafag friends has shit on his bike that beeps every time we pull over or something.

I really wish people enjoyed riding their bikes as much as they do jacking off their electronic gizmos.

Maybe I should move to the woods in BC?

cheers

 i can appreciate the electronic shift's technical superiority to a cable-operated system, but both are equally susceptible to failure which isn't unlikely in a sport like mountain biking - especially if you ride technical terrain or fairly aggressively. The cost of replacement of said damaged components will likely swing more than a few riders back to the old tried and true 'low-tech' derailleurs.

 Great stuff!
What happens when the rear derailleur blows up.
Its still prone it being hit by rocks, being pulled by chains and getting sticks and other things jammed it.
All of which has happened to me and was easily fixed with mechanical solutions.
So, what do you do in that case?
How about a true gear box in the rear hub, that sounds better to me!
But, I like the idea of it always being precise and changes gears with less effort!

For the suspension I have mixed emotions as I like to tune and retune my sus to match my ride.
But I have met way too many riders riding bikes right out of the store without any tuning as they are aimless on how to set things up. So, if one day there was a push a button and it automatically sets your sag, rebound and compression based on the riders weight and style, then ya its pretty cool for many! The only way to get there is to keep innovating!

RideOn!

 IF a manufacture put the proper amount of R&D in, to me, the ultimate setup would be a lightwieght 10 or 11 spd gearbox style hub that was wirelessly shifted thus eliminating broken/bent derailleurs and cables. The battery on said system should be powerful enough to last a minimum of two weeks worth of hard riding everyday or a month+ with less riding.

 The comment regarding manual automotive transmissions versus automatic may not be directly applicable, but hits home for me. My wife and I both drive manual transmissions and prefer them. As a corollary, I prefer the feel and simplicity of 1X cable actuated bicycle drive trains. They are reliable and field serviceable without much effort. Having ridden road bikes with Dura Ace Di2 and MTB's with XTR Di2 I wasn't impressed and did not feel it added anything to the experience. I look forward to demoing a bike with eTap, but honestly I am quite pleased with my current mountain and road set ups (XO/Rival). Keep up the great work, Vernon.

 I'm all in on drive trains, specially wireless. For suspension or droppers, hell no for the simple reason that none of the bike suspension components are nearly reliable enough to be controlled electronically. I've tried the Fox IRD stuff and it felt and looked very much tacked on and just cumbersome. If a company is going to go with an electronically controlled suspension, then it needs to be designed that way from the ground up and not tacked on to an existing design.

 I like the interview. The industry is like, "we've made it for those who are into it and for those who aren't (or those for whom it is too expensive) we've still got the mechanically actuated alternative". And most of the customers interviewed are like "it might be nice but I haven't had enough time on one to form a proper opinion". I like that. If the industry feels like developing something new, you can't stop that. If the customers find out it is not for them, they'll tell. But is good to be open minded.

Personally I don't think it is for me. But that's more due to my own limitiations. I may be fairly capable with mechanical stuff, but not so much with electronics and computer based stuff. So working on an all mechanical bike seems less stressful to me, which is important. As these electronic systems are so much more complex hence expensive than their mechanical counterparts (as the friendly SRAM guy wholeheartedly admitted) they won't completely blow the alternative away. It won't happen like it did with the wheel size. After all, a 27.5" rim probably isn't so much more expensive to produce compared to a 26" wheel. As for those saying the industry killed 26" I'd say nonsense. If you really want 26" then buy 26" stuff and it will remain big. Look at what Shimano did in 2003-2005. They introduced rapid rise shifing. People didn't want that and went for SRAM (causing it to rise quickly). Next generation Shimano turned it back to normal again. Shimano had their axle mounted rear mechs for Saint and Hone. I thought it was good (still running the non rapid rise axle mounted Saint mech from 2007 or 2008 or so) but many thought otherwise so they ditched that as well. Same for the oversized Saint centerlock interface. I never gave Shimano Airlines (pneumatic shifting) much thought, but apparently it did't appeal to enough to actually buy it. The whole statement that the industry is shoving new stuff up our throat is nonsense. Just because it is being presented doesn't mean you have to munch.

 It's crazy how many people have an opinion on every new technology that comes out. Should companies (especially the big ones) be researching/developing new ideas: yes. Does it matter if that is electronic/mechanical, aluminium/carbon, makes pedalling easier/makes descending easier, red/blue: no. We only have the option once the options exist. As long as we're not forced to change (can keep getting parts that fit any bike), it's all good.

 Great content, good discussion, asking the right questions, speaking to interesting people, whats not to like... Personally I haven't the money for electronic shifting or suspension, but if i had, sure I would buy it. It's evolution, and I ride a rigid monstercross bike, mostly so wtf do I know...

 it is like the arrival of the quartz watch that took over the mechanical ones But in the case of mtb electronic will gain popularity only if the price goes down My honest opinion we need to keep it mechanical I just cant see myself trying to fix a circuit board instead of replacing my cables and housing

 30 Years without any cable actuated components in a car, what is this guy from the future? My car's from 2004 and it has the following components cable actuated: Trunk, Hood,Gas Tank lid, E-brake,Gas Pedal,Cruise Control,clutch.....I find it more economical replacing a 10 dollar cable over a 100$ electronic switch that does the same job as a cable, But if you have the money for it why not. The only difference between cheap components and expensive components is price they bot do the same job at the end of the day. !CHOOSE YOUR CONVENIENCE!

 I have no problem spending $$$ for the best cabled group right now, either xtr or xx1. If electronic ever comes down to a similar price point then I'll go that route. It just hasn't happened yet though.

 Hey Mike Vernon,

thanks for the really interesting video at first.

Regarding Di2: I've ridden a road bike with Dura Ace Di2 - best shifting ever, no question. You can pedal as hard and slow as you want to, try everything to ruin the shift, and even if you shift front and rear at the same time in those situations the derailleurs don't even complain. It just works flawlessly every frickin time, no matter how hard you try to wreck it.

Second thing is: The independence of the big, clunky shifters. It never occurred to me that they were big and clunky.. but seeing how perfectly it works, thinking about just pressing a button which i could theoretically position anywhere I want .. why not?
Look into the past: Shift and brake levers sometimes got into each others way. Some combinations were impossible to setup nicely. Then the manufacturer worked hard to optimize the ergonomics. And I'm not just talking about MatchMakers and I-Specs - newer brake and shift levers are generally designed to be able to position them more ergonomically, even when using shifters and brakes from different companies. So why not take the leap and have even better ergonomics with electronic shifting?

In the end, we're probably going to see a lot of shifting pushed through the OEM market and ultimately those bikes will be sold second hand. More people will start loving it. Will it replace mechanics? Probably not. Just as much, as 1-by-drivetrains will probably never completely replace double rings (especially because you only need one shifter for a dual setup with electronics!).

 I don't like charging every ride I dont like charging diff batteries. When suspension is electronic and all the things use one single charging port total, and it doesnt cost 2 grands, and it lasts more than a ride - then i will be fully onboard with electronic. Til then cables for me

 The motorcycle world is going thru a similar change. Motorcycles with computer controlled damping/spring rates, traction control, 6-axis anti-lock/skid, etc, show up on the more expensive bikes, and really do make for a better riding/performing motorcycle. It's also trickling down to many lower priced bikes where you see ride-by-wire, instead of a traditional throttle cable. Many in the motorcycling world look to this technology as a double edge sword - namely, who is going to know how to fix this stuff, or even get parts, to get a 15 year old wunderbike on the road again? It's something older 'analog' motorcycles don't have to deal with. But, it's all heading this way, because bike component makers don't want to get left behind in the tech, since it does deliver the goods performance wise, we'll be seeing more and more of it.....Just wait, electronic tire pressure adjust for your mtb.....

 Im not for or against electronic shifting, I just think its completely unnecessary and "perfect" shifting adds very little to "great" shifting. I would only consider it if it was around the same price as a normal component set.

 Electronic suspension control is what I was hoping to see more of. Forget the shifting - which works regardless. More info on Fox's Live Valve, Magura's eLect (full bike), Lapierre/Rockshox e.i.Auto.... These are things that should really improve the ride quality. I'd like to see them tested and reported on!

 Nobody has ever went: "Hi customers, should we make an E-shifting group?" They just made it and sell it to people. Like dropper posts, like disc brakes, like boost. So sorry nothing to see here. "Hello young man, my name is Shean how about a PLUSh tyre? A fatter vershion of your favorite tyre shat is not a fat tyre? Would you buy one from your daddy? If you shay yesh and be a good boy I may make you one, yeeeesh, uhm-aaaahm..." Is electronic shifting an improvement? - yea. It solves a genuine first world problem.

And that label "Early adopters" - Jesus Christ, do they give a medal for being one? Because it sounds as dorky as it probably gets. Everytime I hear "Early 650B adopter" I see a 45 year old dude on Comic con meeting his Babylon 5 buddies. The only time being an early adopter sounds cool is when you are a teenager being into vaginal sex.

Cool video anyways! Big Grin

 as a wireless i'm all for it, as electronic with cables as is di2 i see no point since you still have to put those cables somewhere so waiting to see who's going wireless shifting for mtb, as for dropper posts revolution is going to come when it can go down without any pressure on it

 Step one is electric shifting, step two will be automatic shifting. Once a rider can cover the same ground quicker on a automated shift equipped bike the market for then will grow, volume will increase and cost will come down.

 "do people want this stuff" - lol, no, they don't know they want it but they will buy it when presented with it

End of the day these companies have the stats to look at, they know what and how much people will spend, so yes, people will buy them, you only have to go into the local LBS and see what people are dropping on new bikes to see that there is money and buyers all ready to part with their cash and strap there new shiny toys atop their new shiny Audi!!

 If electric shifting will become the shit to have! Everyone will get it or it will be on their list to get it! Road or MTB is not a must, it's a hobby.. we buy this stuff for our own reason, but 9 of 10 we want the best what's available despite if it actually works.

 in the year 2000 i bought a canon camera, all mechanic: still working well.
in the year 2006 I bought a canon camera, all digital. doesn't work for 3 years, I don't even know how to fix it.
Same will be with detailers and other components.

 I loved my XTR Di2 Setup. The shifting is on another level. The thing that I greatly disliked about it was the fact if I broke something, I am out quite a bit of money but if you can afford Di2, that shouldn't be an issue. But lets face it. Nobody likes to break anything expensive. I will try XT Di2 if my next frame is Di2 compatible. Still, even with the Di2, theres something about the cheap XT cable drivetrain that makes you feel good. Its probably the fact you can get a whole setup for less than the price of the XTR Di2 Rear Derailleur. Either way, I am for innovation, even if I cannot afford it so long as it delivers great performance and Di2 does.

 As a mechanic I take offence in being referred to as a "monkey" when it comes to ability to tune a cable actuated derailleur. I fix poorly tuned derailleurs at least twice daily. I must be a pretty smart monkey.

re: the charging of electronics.....if it goes dead while you're riding you're about as smart as a 16 year old with a Bugatti Veyron you're not in that league.

 As an electrical engineer that's spent time programming automotive transmissions, I can't deny that I want electronics on my bike. That said, my 1x11 drivetrain works pretty awesome already. I'm unlikely to spend extra cash on my next drivetrain for better shift indexing alone.

For me, electronics just have a little more development needed. The two main areas that need more development for me to buy in are system integration, and suspension functionality.

With cluttered cockpits, and endless cable routing headaches (both cable rub on frame and components, and compromised performance), moving to integrated drivetrain, suspension, and dropper post controls would make a massive improvement. This would reduce the number of cables and their bending radius at a minimum, and with the inclusion of wireless systems, could make bikes cleaner than internal cable routing with less maintenance hassle than external routing. Win, win! Then there's all the data logging and analysis potential when connected to your phone. You could see what gears you used on a particular Strava segment, or in combination with a power meter, find out if you're using the most efficient gear. Better yet, why not let your bike shift for you? It is smarter than you after all.

Of course this is all easier said than done because it would require all the different components to be designed to a certain set of communication and power standards and all share a common power and control system. For this reason, I expect that SRAM will be the first company to produce such a system because they are the only company in the world that produces all 3 systems.

Suspension functionality, the other area for improvement would be an even harder sell for me. To date, even the most advanced prototypes (Fox Live Valve) still only digitally open and close the low speed compression. I haven't tried a system like this, but I've read it actually works really well. But is that really all we're ever going to get? Just an automatic climb switch? That's pretty rudimentary control over for such a complex component. If manufacturers could develop products with analog control over high and low speed compression, and at least 1 rebound circuit, we could tune suspension to different types of trails. One setting for flow trails, and at the push of a button, another setting for rocks and roots, and a Cane Creek style climb setting that modifies both compression and rebound. Add in some accelerometers, and you'll have Fox Live Valve, only with better feel over a wider variety of terrain. Add a wheel speed sensor, and the tune could automatically adapt to get the best tune at that speed. (Gwin's tune would start to make a lot more sense if you could go as fast as him) That's just scratching the surface though. Precise control and accelerometers (or other sensors) for feedback could be used to assist the user in dialing in the perfect tune and detect degraded performance much like the Shockwiz product that SRAM just purchased. Better yet, put accelerometers on the frame and axles, and the suspension would be able to react differently when the rider pushes down on the bike compared to a bump pushing it up. The front and rear suspension could even work together as a system to help keep the bike balanced. Of course, now we're talking about full blown semi-active suspension, and the limitation here will be the rate at which the hydraulic circuits can be controlled.

As with before, I suspect SRAM will be a frontrunner in this aspect. Fox may have the more advanced prototypes at the moment, but I'll take the Shockwiz tuner over a full time Live Valve any day. After all what's the point in spending thousands of dollars on suspension components if they're set up wrong. The correct tune is going to beat the incorrectly tuned high tech suspension every time.

 Run time on a system/battery life?
Ruggedness....like if the derailer nails a rock and the inners get shook?? Or constant jarring, like what happens when you mountain bike....
Will they include a cable back-up option if there is failure in the electronics??

 This should be a staple show for pinkbike. Approaching the principal trends in the cycling industry with a neutral perspective and just seeing what the experts and laypeople have to say. I thought this was good.

 Great bit of work here, Vernon + PB!

My biggest issue is the consistent "well, for people who don't want to think" sentiment.

Yes, you should be thinking about it. Dumbing folks down with smart technology never ended well for anyone.

 IMO might as well be an E-MTB when using electric solutions other than GPS, cameras and lights! There is already too much of a technology war going on in the MTB industry and it all adds to not only price but confusion over what is best for the sport.

 If money for electronic shifting and suspension were not an issue or consideration ... and on par, or at lease close in cost with a traditional mechanical system I would say a definite yes please.

What excites me about it is the flexibility you have by being able to program either your suspension or drive train.

Suspension .... easy adjustment of how you want your fork or shock to feel / react .... could it get to the point where your suspension could add or subtract air pressure too. I don't see why not.

It just promises so much more for a rider who like and appreciates tuning options on their bikes.

 I want to know if repairing the electric drivetrain will cost more or less...replacing sure looks costly...

Battery life..battery materials used are still not the best,and certainly won't be amazing in bikes for a while...I care about reliability and even more so,durability and being able to fix shit on the fly out riding...shops need to put them on demo/rental bikes

 Personally, I'm happy about all this new stuff coming out as it makes the perfectly good mechanical 10sp stuff so much cheaper. XT 10sp is fit and forget. I don't have a qualm with electronics or more gears but I see little in the way of performance benefits to warrant the extra expense.

 I just don't think it makes sense to put electronic parts on my bike.

I tried a Di2 once in my life and it worked perfect. But so did the electronic suspension system on the Lapierre Spicy until water came in.

Electronic parts just make bikes more vulnerable to the elements. The advantage is really small.

Why is Sram and Shimano not willing to change the whole market. Just look at the Zerode and the Pinion gearbox. It is possible to build a working gearbox and the bikes would be a lot more durable. Suspension would work a lot better too. I think they just earn to much with broken or outworn parts. When riding Enduro or Downhill my rear derailleur gets hitten by rocks frequently. How good is a torn Di2? Its good for Shimano because it costs so much. Why not get rid of it?

Gearbox would be the better option by far. But somehow they don't want this.

 It's a great idea and I am all for smooth and thoughtless shifting but the industry needs to do more with getting the derailleur out of harms way for mountain bikes. If I am going to drop this much money on a derailleur, i better not have a rock punch it off. I like mechanical shifting because i can buy a cheap derailleur when i break it. Disc brakes somehow miraculously avoid damage but who hasn't wrecked a derailleur? I'd drop the money if i wasn't scared of getting it ripped off by a rock/branch/squirrel/etc. With 1x becoming the standard, the long cages hang out even more. 1x's are popular because there is less to worry about, less to rattle around, and less to break. I love my 1x but the derailleur is becoming too exposed.

My final word, push forward with electronics (smooth and thoughtless shifting) but get that derailleur out of harms way!

 Thanks Vern, but I can do without a 17 minute bullshit buffet about another mindless MTB industry fvck up.

All the wasted R&D that went into this could've been put towards further improving gearboxes, establishing standards & moving the industry in the right direction. Vern, why are they cranking this crap out? $$$ & that's the ONLY reason.

The only advantage to sticking an even more expensive & complex stick/boulder hook on the back of your bike for the end user would be to be able to spin the bars on a geared bike with no cables or hoses. We all know that most of you fvck wits that would willingly by this worthless junk ain't doin' no barspins or tailwhips, so it's fvcking stupid. It's even further made stupid by the fact that the issue could be addressed & solved hydraulically.

The right thing to be doing is working on hydraulically actuated gearboxes, but we won't be seeing anything like that from $hitmano or $CAM unless a smaller but better company is tenacious enough to fight back & cut through all this bogus crap.

 Electronic drivetrains and suspension is the future. Just look at the auto industry. Electronics are continually being integrated into the engine, suspension, interior, exterior, etc. Virtually everything. It makes driving easier, more efficient, faster, and safer. Having your suspension know what's going on with your drivetrain and vice versa can allow the bike to adjust and predict condition. No more needs for lock outs buttons cluttering the handlebar, lighter weight so you can focus on riding and enjoying.

From a maintenance standpoint, it's basically set it and forget it. Once it's set up, no real need to adjust it. There's nothing to stretch or corrode or fray. If you ride a lot or in bad conditions, each time you change cables it's at least $50 for the cables themselves and labor to adjust. Rinse and repeat 2-3 times a year and it starts adding up. If your only excuse is that you have to charge something, put down your cell phone and go back to the rotary telephone.

I think SRAM nailed it with eTap. Wireless is the way to go. No cables to run. The frame no longer has to accommodate cable and engineers are free to make major design leaps. Can't wait for their MTB version. I think if SRAM has invested in R&D for eTap it's pretty much a lock to come to mountain. Just needs to be sealed better and increase durability. Should be out in next couple years especially now that Shimano released XT Di2 and lowered the price point of electronic shifting.

Basically, I'm all for it.

 Have to say, I'm a buyer at any price if it has no wires, it's lighter and it can take a beating in the bike park/shore winter. I've ridden the Ulteggra Di2 on road and the shifts are crisp. It's an awesome new product.

 I for one welcome our new robotic overlords. Skynet is real! I see the benefits in suspension but the drivetrain side. Not so much. It's cool. And, Duncan strikes me as the kind of guy who rides a fixie.

 don't care I want this T shirt pb

 The issue of electronic technology on mountain bikes is often one of cost. Manufacturers can make it and make it work well, but it's another component that adds expense to a bike. A fr

 There was a time when shifter cables were new-fangled... www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZhSNdO_Zo

I am not very excited about electronic shifting, but it will happen, and I'm sure I'll eventually accept it.

 Leaving a smoke trail in the Alps, those guys looked to be having a good time! Good one Vernon, great article/video. I'll stick to cables my self.

 My cross bike has Ultegra DI2 and it works very very well. I would say marginally better than the XTR 1 X 11 on my mountain bike. Electric advantages are that you'll never suffer from a dirty cable. It always shifts the same. But it costs more so if you damage derailleurs a lot it might not be such a good idea. While I like my DI 2 on the cross bike a lot, I'm not about to go electric on the mountain bike. I don't find the shifting that much better.

Electric suspension? No. Because I usually ride rough trails so my shocks are wide open most of the time. If your bike bobs it's probably a shitty suspension design or you need a coach. While I do occasionally select trail settings it's mostly because I can and think I should but then I usually forget and ride in descend mode. I don't find that it hampers my ability to ride on pavement t on my way to the trails at all.

 Servos need to be reusable to get the replacement cost close to mechanical derailleur replacement. If the cost to replace a busted derailleur was withing 20% of a mechanical group I would consider it.

 I'm completely sold over Di2 for road use, where power ratios and stuff are crucial. For mtb when you stop spinning on the way down I just can't justify the price/weight/assle penalty of electronic.

 Cool video but electrnics sucks... it s just bout marketing cuz really who care about that.And what people gonna do with uses battery...... it s at least not very nice for the nature....... more and more garbage

 Electronic shifting is great and all but while Shimano has been messing around pushing something nobody wants SRAM has been eating their lunch and pushing them out of the OEM market with single ring setups people actually want.

SRAM is going to beat them to market with 12 speed electric that is truly wireless and Shimano will respond with a second generation of a crappy dropper post. Shimano can't even do brakes properly now. (XT M8000 problems) and Saint hasn't been updated in five years with nothing on the Horizon.

People are going to look back at electronci shifting as when Shimano really lost it.

 being on a fixed income, I would stay with what I have. 2012 575 Yeti XT. If I had the cash I would go with E shifting. but would probably wait to see how they are working out. Yeah I still have 26 and they work great; )

 I get it especially for 2x drive trains where you can then have 1 shifter and auto trim the front one as you go across the cassette. For 1x transmissions I think the argument is far less compelling

 I gotta give props to Duncan Riffle for having such a convincing argument. His responses were the most well thought out and actually got me excited about it. I'd give electronic shifting a shot.

 Wow. The Shimano Product Managers really need to practice their on-screen pitch. So awkward.

 Keep innovating, but ill stay with cable and manual fork/shock adj.

 Just a good one Vernon ! We don't need it , but like e-bikes, they`ll be here so we can test it and maybe if they become really good and not so pricier, we would buy them. Let's be realistic, why do you change your phone or your car ? probably n 60% they still work , but it's the need of something new, inovative .

 Manufacturers are always going to be trying to create better products so they can sell more of them. If the consumers buy electronic stuff then we'll see more of it and vice versa.

 Di2 is an inside job! Its so the government can track all the mtbers off the grid.... Darn commies :-)

 Lighter lever action. While I don't want something else to change, I will deal with it to get a lighter lever action and less stress on my finger joints due to injuries.

 ill stick with cables thanks.at least then when our leaders have nuked us almost to extinction my gears will still work without needing to be charged

 Sorry bro, I can't ride now, my drivetrain is downloading a software update...

 I made it all the way to 1:38. What do I win?

 Mavic ZAP

 Where's my 13 Speed Bear drivetrain?

 Nicely done Vernon-- straight to the point with the questions.

 Duncan needs more tattoos

 does the use of electricity increase a biker's carbon footprint? just wondering.

 I hope it charges with a cord that doesnt match any of my other cords!! I need more cords in my life....

 Buy it if you like it... Don't buy if you don't like it... Seems simple enough to me!

 All your shifter are belong to us!

 Totally CHARGED for this review!

 nice video pb, thanks.

 What about electronic brakes?

 "Next week on PinkbikeTV...."

 I think Id rather have ABS than any of these road solutions. I think shifting makes since on the road but off road I don't get it.

 if you don't like it nobodies make you buy it.. don't bitch just to bitch

 Fuck off. With your pauses. For dramatic. Effect.

 Excellent coverage Vernon! Nothing has been missed and very comprehensive.

 Bring it on. E-shifting with a electronically steered shox and a E-dropper post without the delay Magura is having. This would be my choice for my 2017 bike.

 I'll buy it so long as I don't have to buy a smartphone in order to adjust it! Hint xshifter...

 Vote with your dollars, people.

 I like it and i want it.
I just cannot afford it (at the moment )

 STICK YOUR ELECTRONIC BIKE BS WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE.

 Vernon's facial expressions are all-time.

 my lapierre zesty IE is awesome.

 I love my di2 E bike, I can drink coffee and text now!

 Cables.