Hope Cuts Price on Made-in-England Carbon Bike

Jan 16, 2018
by Paul Aston  
Hope HB211

Hope just announced that they are slashing £2000 off the price tag of their upcoming HB160 carbon super bike. It's a welcome, yet surprising, move. When was the last time you saw a company drop prices on a highly anticipated bike that has yet to reach the market? Riders who already paid the original £7500 asking price will be getting a £2000 refund check in the mail.

I visited Hope Technology at their summer press camp in Briancon last July to check out the official release of their first-ever production bike. When they finally dropped the bombshell about the price, I was expecting a single digit below five-figures and was pleasantly surprised when they said £7500. I thought it was fair enough for a carbon frame that is laid in the UK, as well as a full Hope and Kashima coated Fox build kit; not to mention the fact that the bike had been developed from scratch, had proprietary parts and.... oh yeah, they had to build a new factory, buy all the machines to CNC the giant molds, cut the carbon fabric and bake the frames, and employ new staff to build the bikes.


The following is lifted from Hope's Facebook page:

bigquotesOur first bike, the HB160 was successfully launched last August and received praise from all who rode it. An asking price of £7500 certainly put it into the Superbike category, but given the quality finish, attention to detail and uniqueness, it’s not unjustified.

However, this price didn’t really sit well with one of our founders, Ian Weatherill. He’s been quoted many times stating that UK manufacturing can easily compete in the global market, but initial pricing for the HB160 didn’t really reflect this.

Over the Christmas break we spent time reassessing our Carbon bike program and finding ways to bring a UK manufactured bike to the market at a more affordable price. We have managed to recalculate the absorption of the R and D costs for our whole carbon bike development program. This has enabled us to drop the retail price of our HB160 to £5500. We realize this is a major shift in pricing, but there will be no compromise in quality. The frames will still be meticulously manufactured in Barnoldswick by the same craftsmen.

What about the original customers who paid £7500? We have committed to refunding the difference in purchase price to all these customers and will be in touch over the next few weeks. This has been possible due to our initial and ongoing commitment to keeping production in the UK, enabling us to pass on all cost savings directly to our customers.
#hopetech #madeinuk


We asked Alan Weatherill, brother of owner, Ian, and the manager of sales marketing at Hope a few questions:

How did you realize that you could knock a whopping £2000/27% off the price of the HB160 bike? That's as much as some manufacturers entire margins.


It all comes down to amortization of R&D costs. As you know, the development of the bike as well as research into carbon production techniques was all new to us and so costs were pretty high. Initially, as is normal, we looked to spread these costs over several years of bike production, but over Christmas, we decided that the carbon development shouldn’t only be attributed to one project as this knowledge will be used in multiple products over many years.

Will the quality of the bikes produced at the lower price be identical to the more expensive models?


There are no changes to the production methods, materials or processes. Our guys still take so much pride in every bike they make, they treat each one like it’s their own bike.

You will be refunding previous buyers who paid the full £7500. Has anyone ever done something like this in the MTB industry before?


We’ve never heard of it before in any industry, but we couldn’t let down the customers who had enough confidence in us to buy our first bike. They supported us, so we wanted to give something back, literally.

Why didn't you just pocket the cash and buy more toys, e-bikes for example?


It’s back to the previous answer really. Morally, we couldn’t do this to our customers.

Does this mean you are now making very little markup on this bike, hoping it will act as a loss leader?


We’re still making some money on this bike. Maybe not quite as much as before, but we’re comfortable with it.

Does it have anything to do with the number of requests for the bikes after last year's launch, are you selling more than you expected, therefore, experiencing a better price per unit?


No, we sold four bikes last week before the price change and we’re still only planning on making 4 or 5 bikes a week, so the quantities aren’t changing.



HB211
Hope already have a shed/factory load of machines for CNC machining, but they had to buy an even bigger one just to carve out these £700 chunks of alloy.


Dropping the price from £7500 to £5500 moves the HB160 from the superbike to 'hmm that's not too bad,' putting it in line with many other bikes, including direct sale models, even though they will still be retailed through local bike shops. If you have already spent £7500 on an HB160, your refund will be on its way soon. Imagine departing with all that hard-earned cash but justifying it to yourself by the fact you have your own dream bike to keep for years, then nearly a third of the money is back in your account - I would save it and be halfway towards buying a 29er if they listen to me and make one soon...

Hints were already made about more bike models in the future, so hopefully, we might see a whole range within the next few years, still made in the UK and perhaps even cheaper?


HB211
Still made here, but 26.666% percent cheaper wherever you buy one.



270 Comments

  • + 327
 I love that they're doing this but it makes me think how outrageously other bikes/frames/components are all over-priced if a "small-ish" brand without the economy of scale, building in a 1st world country, can cut $2k off their product and still be profitable. I guess I'm just part of the herd
  • + 65
 Almost $3k ;p
  • + 35
 When you think about how relatively fewer of these bike they sell, vs their aftermarket parts business, it's probably a pill they can swallow fairly easily. Creating tremendously positive PR in the process. A company that sells mostly bikes, would not quite as easily slash their pricing since it's all they sell. In a nutshell - a small number of bikes, with a reduced margin, impacts their overall profit across all of their products minimally.
  • + 45
 When you own the supply chain, you have flexibility. They are the factory for most of the product and if you buy it directly from hope, then they've successfully cut out two middle men and kept the margins for themselves. Sounds like smart business because I still want it.
  • + 8
 This. And now let us all remember the 9.100K bike in the earlier article on PB. Does it really worth the 9K? (and that of course applies to other companies as well).
  • + 16
 You’ve not heard about anyone paying back 2k to their customers before because no ones dropped the price of their current bikes by 2k before!
  • + 11
 @shakeyakey: trek just knocked 2k off the price of a new session.. although they outsourced production to asia to do so.....
  • + 17
 "building in a 1st world country" - this may point to where the uk is headed...
  • + 2
 the original price was a hair above that Mondraker Foxy!!
  • + 13
 If only it came with a rake????
  • + 5
 @shakeyakey: Intense just did?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Hope has allways been UK made
  • + 6
 @nojzilla: the point was for how long will the uk be a first-world country... Project fear!
  • + 0
 @netracer-enduro: _ Funny though that TREK has not made a Mountain bike in the US in over 10 years.
  • + 1
 Hope isnt small
  • + 1
 @shaunestes: tho all intense bikes are made overseas for a couple of years already.
  • + 163
 This PB price whiner is pleasantly confused.
  • - 3
 Basically in a nutshell, they were making way too high a margin, which I think they probably deserve, due to their commitment, great quality and service. However, someone high up has said; "Hey, if we sell 100 x as many of these, that gets our kit on OEM builds (sales we are missing out on with other brands). Business logic. Good on them and well marketed. I can see through it, but it wouldn't stop me buying hope. I love their kit and their tenacity.
  • + 12
 @cunning-linguist: Being omnipotent must be great.
  • + 1
 @Injuredhippo: you mean being Potent must be great, it clearly said they were being made in Hardoldick UK.
  • + 5
 Geez Hope is representing everything cool these days
  • + 31
 @Injuredhippo: Do you mean omniscient (all knowing, omnipotent means all powerful)?
  • + 28
 @iamamodel: +1 for the Aussie educational system in this round.
  • + 112
 This warms my heart, not just the price drop but the refund to customers. In the bicycle industry there is always Hope.
  • + 61
 Good job Hope! You guys have always done a great job at supporting the cycling community, while continuing to make great products. This just reaffirms that!
  • - 11
flag stevemokan (Jan 16, 2018 at 13:36) (Below Threshold)
 That, or they weren't selling nearly enough so they had to come up with some horseshit story about why they need to lower the price. If they can't morally justify it now, why could they six months ago?
  • + 1
 @stevemokan: @stevemokan: I'm sceptical too... it may be legit, but they may also be way off sales expectations (or wanting to be more ambitious/aggressive). Giving a two week comparison is hardly reflective of long-term history, and the statement may just be 'spin' to negate people from jumping to that conclusion. For me, I think it's probably a combination of the two; and a great PR opportunity which PB has helped them leverage. Either way I'll continue to buy Hope product (esp hubs)!
  • + 7
 @stevemokan: that may be so.. but how do you explain refunding back £2k to the early adopters? They could have just as easily said 'oh we managed to bulk buy the carbon at cheaper prices, simplified manufacturing processes etc etc' thus the next batch will be cheaper
  • + 1
 @Dedydharma: that would be really, really crap customer service. I don't believe they really had a choice... definitely the right thing to do.
  • + 1
 @stevemokan: The moral justification is for refunding customers who already paid the original price not for the price drop. You are probably right with the projected sales numbers. The number of dentists were limited for the £7500 initial price. Still, awesome quality products and great customer service.
  • + 12
 Zero fucks are given for the why. But because they did, I award Hope every fuck I have in my fuck bag.
  • + 47
 Too late to go back to colonial rule? Seems like they're actually looking out for the people!
  • + 71
 Yeh mate sorry, Canada we could probably make an exception for though.....
  • + 19
 @hgardner: Thanks, but no thanks. You can keep your queen & family!

#sorry (not really lol!)
  • + 61
 @ridestuff: um, is still your queen & family....

#sorry
  • - 37
flag Bailey100 (Jan 16, 2018 at 12:15) (Below Threshold)
 @KiwiXC: no. it isnt
  • + 52
 @KiwiXC: it’s not even our queen and family. They’re just a weird tourist attraction.
  • - 35
flag raditude (Jan 16, 2018 at 12:25) (Below Threshold)
 @hgardner: For Queen & Country! doesn't sound as good as For God & Guns!
  • + 20
 @raditude: Gods and Queens should just stay in the story books
  • + 0
 @inverted180: I'm in the south so it is more like For Yeti Coolers & #SaltLIife
  • + 3
 @raditude: yeah...we know
  • + 20
 Pretty much every Canadian I've ever met has at some point mentioned they don't like/want/respect "my queen", as if all British people hold her dearly in their hearts! Yeah we're really close, Liz and I. I still try to meet up with her for tea a couple of times a year, just like all the other 65 million residents of the UK.
  • + 5
 @jaame: We'll try to stop bringing it up. Tough when its all you think about though...
  • + 2
 @ThomDawson: .. .. I believe that currently under our Australian constitution, the Queen can disolve our elected parliament via her Aussie Governer General. A power which she used once before 40 years ago.

So will are still under the royals thumb.
  • + 1
 @jaame: I highly doubt that.
  • + 1
 @karatechris: Aussies and kiwis, not bothered. Never mention it, and rightly so.
  • + 0
 @jaame: don´t lose your Hope!
  • + 3
 @raditude: I think the millions upon millions murdered, the cultures destroyed, and countries left destitute may not be so keen on any positive mention of colonialism.
  • + 1
 @delusional: Hey, we have a former reality TV star with control over one of the largest stockpiles of nukes. We might take the top spot still. I hope to god not.
  • + 3
 @delusional: they exploited their own people before they did it to anyone else. Arseholes will be arseholes, wherever whenever.
  • + 42
 Hope, aside from capitalizing & amortizing your R&D, you can also make a hefty claim on your R&D Expenditures to the tune of 11% tax credit per UK rules. Yours truly, Accounting Dweeb.
  • + 2
 Hope should hire you.
  • + 41
 That's incredible. One more reason I'll stay a Hope fanboy.
  • + 15
 Just bought a set of their hubs second hand. Does that make me noble?
  • + 10
 @WAKIdesigns: You been in this game long enough you know your on the path of enlightenment. Nobility comes first hand. lol
  • + 9
 @WAKIdesigns: Get knighted by the Queen - Sir Waki the Troll
  • - 3
 @steelpolish: don’t be silly, Queen is running Profile
  • + 22
 @WAKIdesigns: Your mistaken - the Queen is on King
  • + 0
 I love Hope tech, I will not stop telling all people of the miracles of Hope Tech. And @WAKIdesigns, I think buying second hand is almost always noble, and when it is hope tech even more so. Also, I think Profile Racing is perfectly acceptable
  • + 1
 @steelpolish: Game, set, and match. Now for the strawberries and cream.
  • + 36
 The landing cost of Santa Cruz frames is $900 (USD). That's an extra $2100 for mark up/profit.
  • + 13
 Not sure why someone would neg prop you for that. Santa Cruz trying to keep their margins on the DL? Lol
  • + 5
 How does one come by this information?
  • + 16
 thank god everything on the internet is true or this unsubstantiated comment from a random account might seem a little questionable
  • + 5
 @jmrbauer: I have friends who work in the bike industry and have had the opportunity to purchase frames for the above cost. That's what I know.
  • + 7
 @Jaylynx: man you're friends are going to be pissed when they hear you coughed up the landing price on a frame haha.
  • + 7
 @Jaylynx: good on you for posting up. We need more like you.
  • + 12
 I have no idea if that number is legit or not, but if so its not really that unreasonable. Its not like the execs are pocketing $2100 for every frame that sells. There is wastage, loss, the cost of operating the company itself outside production (e.g. rent, labor, insurance, marketing). Then you need to make a profit, and sell the frame for at wholesale to a bike shop who also has rent, employees, blah farking blah.

Sorry bikes aren't as cheap as you want them to be.
  • + 1
 @necros: I completely agree and I only used SC as an example because I don't have a clue as to where the numbers lie for other companies. I'm sure there're plenty with lower or similar margins and maybe some with greater. Price structuring is a complex beast, but it's great to certain players cut the fluff the pass savings on to consumers. As they say: Goods are only worth as much as people are willing to pay.
  • + 2
 @necros: Sorry bikes aren't as cheap as you want them to be.
And yet, companies like YT, Canyon, Whyte, etc can sell top shelf bikes for $2-5K and make profit. And these aren't Hufffys....

Lets say that the $2100 net is legit. And sure, rent, labor, etc. But how many of these do they sell in a year? The profits are not insubstantial.
  • + 12
 @Poulsbojohnny: A big part of the reason YT and Canyon can sell bikes for a couple grand less than Santa Cruz because you aren't paying for the shops markup. Lets not fall into the talk of where bike shops are going though...

Profits shouldn't be insubstantial for these companies. They take risks, build brands, and make something happen. Santa Cruz has made a huge name for itself over a long period of time. I've owned several bikes of theirs in the past. They should make money. So should Hope, Specialized, YT, whomever is doing a good job for their customers.

Myself, I like making money when I work.
  • + 1
 @skelldify: they make it up.
  • + 0
 @Poulsbojohnny: Another thing might be an environmental cost. Hope's frame production price must be higher to take care of non-ocean-fill waste disposal.
  • - 6
flag chrisclifford (Jan 16, 2018 at 23:00) (Below Threshold)
 @Poulsbojohnny: YT doesn’t have any R&D costs either. Santa Cruz invests significantly more in developing new bikes and technologies. YT copies concensus geometry from Specialized. The costs of doing business are different
  • + 2
 If the numbers are correct it's worth remembering that Santa Cruz offer a lifetime warranty so builds any future expense in to the price out the door. with that in mind mark up would seem reasonable. Replace 1 frame and a bunch of bearings under warranty over the life of the frame (or rider which ever comes first) and the profit is still enough to cover it's ass.
  • + 1
 The term you're looking for is landed cost, not landing cost.
  • + 28
 All Hope is not lost in the bike industry!
  • + 8
 It is clear that our opinions are not discounted.
  • - 2
 @fruitsd79: I bought it directly
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: But will you get refunded?
  • + 3
 @whilgenb: I'll see head doctor about it.
  • + 11
 @WAKIdesigns: He won't be able to see you as he's too busy with stem sell research.
  • + 27
 It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it works out for them.
  • + 2
 hahaha epic movie DODGEBALL Big Grin
  • + 4
 It's clear that people will either choose to buy or not buy this bike. Exciting times Cotton.
  • + 20
 26.666% sounds better than 28.99mm to me Smile
  • + 14
 "Dropping the price from £7500 to £5500 moves the HB160 from the superbike to 'hmm that's not too bad' "

That's still over $9,000 in Canadian dollars. Definitely not the original, eye-watering, $13,000, but still not anywhere close to "hmm, that's not too bad"...
  • + 11
 Still for a top top end bike that's pretty competitive
  • + 8
 Exactly and still £2500 over anything I would ever pay at this moment in time
  • + 2
 @src248: Not a positive...
  • - 1
 @src248: well a top end bike with mostly house brand parts...there was definitely room to lower the price IMO.
  • + 5
 @mtnrush666: are you really comparing the top end made in UK parts that Hope make with the bottom end made wherever's cheapest parts that you get on a Giant? The fact that it's "house brand" makes it more valuable when you're talking about Hope.
  • + 4
 @src248: when your Rolls Royces puts a Rolls Royce luggage and umbrella in your car and you are like, why are they putting this house branded shit in my expensive as f*ck car.

life problems I wish I hadWink
  • + 2
 @src248: I don't agree with hope about being top end parts. Good value for the money, but definitely not top end. I have a comment just below about headset and hub failures. I have found my rear hope hubs to be average in terms of performance. I own a Chris King headset and DT swiss hubs for many years and consider those top end.
  • + 2
 @mtnrush666: their brakes are the best in terms of quality and performance. Not sure what issue you can have with a headset tbh!
  • + 1
 @mtnrush666: Price wise Hope stuff is similarly priced to other manufacturers most expensive products (there are significant differences between Hope wheels and carbon wheels, some other carbon parts are slightly more expensive). Prices are nearly identical to XTR, so even if you haven't found the performance up to par the price tag is that of a premium product,
  • + 13
 all bike brands going forward will mark up their bikes at press launch then slash price to get props on PB
  • + 9
 The bike industry will flat line soon, the bubble has begun to popped! Greed has caught up, $10K bikes is absurd, the pricing did not make sense! It's too saturated and it's innovation has peaked! Too many standards, confusing and angering consumers! The bike industry is killing the sport with their greed! If they had hire Controllers and Operations specialists instead of wannabe Engineers, Sales, and Marketing had no business setting prices!
  • + 1
 And you come to this astonishing conclusion, because one brand, that probably sold only a handful of their niche bikes so far, now dropped the price of their averagely equipped bike as low as US$ 7,600.-?
  • + 1
 @jollyXroger: Did you actually read the article that you linked, or just the headline?

Somehow, I do not see the connection to Hope, or to drivereights rant about the demise of the bike industry.

Of course the soaring sales of ebikes cannibalize sales of real bicycles.

And there might indeed come a shift of production from Taiwan to Cambodia, etc. But there we are not talking about 10k highend MTBs...
  • + 1
 @FuzzyL: tbh 4 a week is pretty impressive to me. Hopes a pretty small company. I though there’s literally sell a few here and there. For 5.5k that’s gotta be one of the best bikes out there.
  • + 8
 What’s with all negativity? All the “it’s only got hope parts on it so easy to drop the price” wtf? Last time I checked hope made great bomb proof components which are fully serviceable. And you can get your brakes serviced with new pads (full factory) for £55.
Clever marketing or not it’s impressive that they chose to go down this route. Fair play Hope!
Some times pinkbike users I dispair, if this was a u.s bike company would there be so many poor comments from our cousins over the pond?
  • + 22
 PB are a large bunch of whiners. They all want Pro/World Cup level performance and cutting edge tech for $2k and then want to sell it used for $1950 two years later.
  • - 2
 I don't know about bomb proof parts. Good value parts, yes....But I have had a hope headset crap out on my after two seasons. I witnessed my buddy's rear hope hub internals explode on a technical climb (it wasn't even a year old).
  • + 2
 @mtnrush666: I have seen similar with every single maker of parts out there. Hope as a whole is a great maker of components . Everyone (King, i9, DT, etc.) has parts fail off and on.
  • + 4
 @mtnrush666: no ones hub exploded,let’s not be silly. I guess you mean the headset bearing wore out after two years riding! Is that really bad? A new bearing is like £10. Tight ass. It’s a wear part and fully rebuildable.
  • + 2
 Well my original hope minis still work after 14 years only been serviced a couple of times come to think of it the wheel set is still going too, bearings changed a couple of times and the pawl springs did rust though and need changing, all those bits are on my misses bike now and still going strong.
  • + 1
 @MrAngry:there is a MrsAngry?
  • + 1
 Lol, she is more MrsCalm, opposites attract I guess.
  • + 13
 holy chit, mang
  • + 10
 RESPECT
  • + 1
 ϽϽƎԀSƎꓤ
  • + 6
 Just looked at the geo numbers. Look fantastic. I'm glad to see that Hope is not following the ridiculous extended top reach lengths. Perfect numbers for top tube reach--free ride!
  • + 4
 Don't forget there are already several British frame manufacturers fairly competitive and successful. And prices vary as much as the used materials. Full carbon hardtail with Pinion gearbox for 2kGBP (Olsen), steel fully for similar money (Starling), proper hardtail for half that (BTR) and then Orange is consistently pumping out quality aluminium bikes (mostly). And there is this top end of Hope and Robotbike.co but really overall prices aren't excessive. Considering PB regularly reviews far away mass produced bikes that go for 4kGBP, I guess you can easily assemble a decent Starling Swoop for that.

Of course Hope deserves respect for returning the money to the early adopters but then again they didn't really have a choice there. Imagine (as they probably did) if they chose to keep it. It would have generated so much hate and it would have been the last time someone trusted them enough to invest up front in one of their new products. Not saying this is some clever marketing trick. They did the right thing and they get my props for that (even though I'd never buy that bike, sorry).
  • + 5
 Seems there is shakeup happening in the industry. Locally some brands here are not selling at the crazy bike shop prices. I think we are going to see more moving to online and cutting prices.
  • + 1
 Worked for me. 2017 YT Jeffsy 27 - $2k. Top knotch.
  • + 4
 thank you hope, after almost 10 year in the bike industry I am out of here on the 31/01/2018, I have had enough of the indurstry making stupid sizes just to make money (especially sram) but hope has alway been super nice, a problem with a hope product is no a problem at all, one call and its sorted and also hope well done on your new b2b website its the best b2b website out there. one of the few things ill miss.
  • + 4
 "Does this mean you are now making very little markup on this bike, hoping it will act as a loss leader?

We’re still making some money on this bike. Maybe not quite as much as before, but we’re comfortable with it."

Wonder what is ENVE, and also all the brands that manufacture their carbon frames in Asia, opinion about this.
  • + 3
 The whole point to the bike is to know where it was manufactured and to know that it was mad by those who want to use their skills to make these bikes. Not so that they can be made for half the price in some Chinese sweatshop by some homeless 5 year old that doesn't give a s**t about the product because they are being paid literally pennies a week.
  • + 1
 Agreed
  • - 6
flag markg1150 (Jan 16, 2018 at 22:58) (Below Threshold)
 Or... Kid who has nothing terrified of making a mistake and starving to death vs
UK worker who slacks off thinking so what if I get sacked Iv got the government to bail me out. (that's very much a thing in the UK) down the road from Barnoldswick theres a town that has a population that almost entirely filled with lazy brain dead bums who get of on living of the state.
  • + 6
 @markg1150: Do me a favour and give living on £65 a week (unemployment benefit) including rent, all bills, food and every other expense a try for a few weeks straight and then tell me that losing your job isn't a big deal here in the UK.
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32:
Already been there and done it for over a year. I also got less than 65 and no rent payed for me. I cared alot.
Come across plenty off people in UK who don't give a s@#t tho.
  • + 3
 Translation - "We realized that making $3000 per bike instead of $5000 per bike is still really great margin, and will get us in the recent club of good guys dropping prices".

I will say however, that it is now clear that the buying public has spoken and brands have taken notice. This is impressive to say the least.
  • + 21
 What is impressive is that Mondrakers, RMs, S-Workses, 9.9s, Yetis, Intenses cost more... that sends the justification of their pricing to the bottom of the South China Sea
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Intense recently joined the "good guy club". So I expect that most others will be following suit. It just might take awhile.
  • - 2
 @TheRaven: Honestly, the shape of their Dh 29er is promising, they may be regaining what's theirs.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Once you understand your obsession not with a psuedo-science marketing industry but a fashion industry driven by subjective opinions that can't be substantiated...well your life will get better.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: Except that I think they lost everything that made them Intense when they stopped making even their Alloy frames in the U.S. The alloy test DH 29er that they actually made in house looked pretty sweet, certainly with you on that
  • + 1
 @Coldspringer: Yeah it's a shame that Intense bailed on alloy. Their alloy frames were in another league, no one offered the quality and craftsmanship that Intense did in alloy. Unfortunately it seems no one is buying alloy anymore.

That said, their carbon frames are incredible also. And while I know their choice of graphics is a love/hate thing, i personally think they make some of the best looking bikes you can buy...and if i'm going to pay used-car-level prices for a bike, it needs to look as awesome as it works.
  • + 3
 So a frame mold is £700, it has previously been suggested in a number of articles that carbon molds are too prohibitively expensive to produce frames in a wide variety of sizes or to update geometry every year.
  • + 1
 That is one side, they made themselves. My be it that is just the price for the billet alone. Either way, Have a complete bike in all sizes made by someone else adds up quickly.
  • + 9
 The piece of aluminum the mould is carved out of is £700. There is a distinction.
  • + 6
 I have always said the £50k mould prices being put out were over exaggerated or included all sizes of a frame.

It isn't £700 though, that's just one half of one side and you missed the 10 days of machine time, not to mention the programming, all adds up.
  • + 1
 @Racer951: in the forum there's a thread about home made bikes I check once in a while cause it's amazing; one of the guys just showed a home made carbon frame as part of his graduate proyect, which mould he machined at the university. That put things in perspective, considering the massive production force and costs of the biggest factories in Asia.
  • + 1
 @Blackandgreen: for the win because reading comprehension is cool.
  • + 2
 Hope have the CNC machines and expertise to make their own moulds
  • + 1
 @ismasan: yea I have seen that one, looks really nice too.

Machining a frame mould can be done on pretty much any modern 3 axis mill so long as the table is large enough, modern cam software has opened the doors to this kind of work outside of ultra high budget guys.

Olsen cycles (I think) on Instagram have a new cnc mould too, another small company managing it in the UK without a big budget.
  • + 1
 @korev: Yeah but it specifically says they had to buy new machines and learn new expertise in this case, which is kind of the whole reason for the price to be high, and now after being revalued, lower
  • + 6
 Finally someone making some sense in the industry! Awesome move HOPE!
  • + 6
 Sick. All the reason to stick with hope parts
  • + 2
 Hope = Bulletproof. They have always made super reliable, easy to service components that actually work and the price is a bargain for this reason. They stepped in to frames and carbon at the same time and so have gone in hard on the initial price to cover unforeseen loses, this is obvious. Hope are not a company that take the piss out of its customers, unlike some of these outsourced companies (YT - who when we placed an order decided to retrospectively UP the price by £1000/$1400).

If anyone is being pissy about hope chances are they've not used them. As a company goes they're ethos is kinda like ENVE, but Hope don't make false claims...
  • + 5
 If I cashed in my kid's college fund and bought one, I think I would call it Obi-wan because it would be my only Hope...
  • + 3
 They need to make a UK specific road bike. Discs, thru axles, compliance, 650b/700cc, big tyre clearance, rack mounts, di2 compatible, internal routing, series bar, stem, seatpost.
  • + 5
 Superb job - that wasn’t to be expected. Puts your faith back in the industry.
  • + 3
 I am glad I support this company by putting their brakes on all the bikesI own. I would buy one of these if I could afford it.
  • + 1
 Awesome that they can give such a reduction in their prices and then step up and refund purchasers as well. How many companies would do that?! I have just seen one in my local bike shop and its a thing of beauty and now priced below top end Santa Cruz builds! If you can afford to spend that much on a bike, "fill yer boots," she is a goody.
  • + 0
 FINALLY!! I don't know what the hells up with bike companies these days but i'm in the market for a full sus mountain bike/fr bike and i can't find a full sus'er on any bike sales websites for under £1,300? for a respectable spec i can't find one for under £2,400! since everyone is cycling to work these days prices in bike sales have gone up massively!
  • + 3
 All these people cycling to work on their 160mm enduro sleds
  • + 2
 Love Hope, such well thought out designs from a company that still has values.
Use hope stainless BB’s and you don’t need DUB !!
  • + 2
 The fact of the matter is, any bike that's listed over 3k could drop 1k+ off the price and still be easily profitable. Props to Hope for actually doing it.
  • + 4
 Get to Z Chapel!!!! Do it Now!
  • + 2
 I love you, Hope, and will continue to buy your products at an even more aggressive rate based on this blatant act of purely excellent business. Well done, Hope. Well done!
  • + 3
 Good on hope. Well done. Now make an alu version and drop the price another $2k.
  • + 4
 Still 140k Mexican pesos. Ouch!
  • + 1
 This loss-leader is so that when Hope buy Orange and start making a whole fleet of carbon bikes under that brand at around this price point people won't think they are any less bikes than this, the original.
  • + 4
 Thats Hope and change we can believe in!
  • + 1
 If you had blindly asked me how much do you think this is from the pics and parts list I would have said $7500 USD. Seems like a good move if you want to sell product. (year old sale price $6500)
  • + 1
 for the 1st few batches you expect them to be outrageously expensive to pay for tooling and R&D, but then the price trails down the more are made, but now at that price, it's more than competitive with the big names.
  • + 3
 Yeah, except they refunded all the initial purchasers.
  • + 3
 The grom in me says "fk yeah" but the cynic says "marketing stunt"
  • + 1
 I'm building up a new bike and this will me make not only buy their wheels (which I would have done anyway because they rock all the rocks), but all the other parts as well.
  • + 1
 With Price drop to 7600 US dollars still puts them in the supercar price range. Santa Cruz Ibis Evil all make nice xt bikes with Carbon wheels for 6000-7500 bucks.
  • + 3
 wow if i had money i'd snap that up
  • + 3
 Price reduced to 10K CAD... how ever will they make a profit?
  • + 4
 Good old Barnoldswick!
  • + 3
 What a cool move, especialy towards the early adapters!
  • + 1
 Top of the line Canyon strive is now 5k. For 500 more I know what I'd rather.
  • + 1
 In honour of what Hope are doing, I just went to spin my rear wheel to hear the sound of my Hope Hub ggrgrrrrrrrr'ing
  • + 2
 would look pretty nice with a DVO setup on it
  • + 0
 i like this Hope Bike Company -> putting their customer first before thinking of profits. Awesome move guys. now if i can only afford to buy this bike. :-)
  • + 2
 Where is the GoFundMe link now?
  • + 1
 If all the Manufacturers are dropping prices, it only points to SLOW SALES! No one is buying!
  • + 1
 The first law of business is supply and demand. If demand is high, price will be high. If demand is low, price will be low.
  • + 1
 @jaame: I'm sure SRAMs new cranks and bottom brackets are going to make things even harder for local shops trying to move inventory.
  • + 1
 So was $7500 for the complete bike, all parts included, or is that price the frame only?
  • + 2
 Complete bike with all those Hope components.
  • + 2
 @bman33: Now that is 100% worth going into debt!
  • - 2
 so lets put this in english.... $10k. after price reduction $7.5k . with basically everything Hope on the bike, including their own wheelset etc.. so what other parts did hope have to source that they don't manufacture? Tires? Handlebars? Seat? Dropper? while most other brands bikes top builds come with ENVE wheels, SRAM brakes, etc.. In all reality Hope could afford to sell that bike for 5k, and still make a profit!
  • + 3
 The price for European exports to be sold in the USA and vice versa has to take in to account import taxes (not sure what it would be for you guys but it would be 20% for us). The mondraker foxy carbon that was reviewed yesterday is £7700 and the hope bike was £7500 before going down to £5500, to me that make the hope bike a bit of a bargain. One of the big differences with hope parts compared to others, everything is serviceable or repairable (every individual part of a brake can be bought individually (or changed to colour match other parts). What colour options to sram brakes come in? Can they be serviced? Didn’t think so. Have a look on YouTube at the how they manufacture their products. Also The handlebars are Carbon hope as well
  • + 4
 @mattvanders: yeah brew. The foxy's price was a joke yesterday, now it's plain ridiculous.
  • + 2
 @mattvanders: yeah brew
  • + 1
 What a great move...and funny how Orange just released a Ti hardtail from 5.9K...puts it into perspective!
  • + 1
 Still using that crazy 130x17mm rear hub? Nobody has any issues with that one?
  • + 2
 Is there a way for someone in the US to buy a Hope bike?
  • - 1
 I love hope products. But.....Is it not simple economics, due to the bike being rather short in reach compared to most modern enduro bikes? Best to sell a decent amount of bikes rather than just a few
  • - 2
 Quote: "but over Christmas, we decided that the carbon development shouldn’t only be attributed to one project as this knowledge will be used in multiple products over many years."

The price increases will be realized in their other, more popular product lines.
  • + 1
 If there ever was a bike I was to own, it would be this one. Love the Engineered look of Hope's products. Well done Hope.
  • + 1
 nice....good on hope for doing this.....still cant afford one though.
  • + 1
 Hope and rolls Royce in the same town ! NUFF SAID
  • - 4
flag RoadRunner13 (Jan 16, 2018 at 12:20) (Below Threshold)
 Rolls Royce are pretty shitty cars.
how do I know ? I leave very close to the test drive track of BMW Group in South of France, and a friend of mine is a test driver over there.
He drove Phantom, Ghost and Wraith, and those ugly cars are absurd and, most of all, totally unreliable !
  • + 1
 Eh, what? RR's main sites are in Derby and Bristol. Chichester if you're talking about the car company. Also, how is this relevant?
  • + 3
 Bad comparison, considering how terribly unreliable BMW products are.
  • + 4
 @RoadRunner13: Nothing to do with cars. It's Rolls Royce aircraft engines which are made in Barnoldswick
  • + 2
 @RoadRunner13:

Rolls Royce make many things including the engines for airbus boeing etc. The place for RR in barnoldswick does exactly this ... pin point engines for passenger planes that millions of people use every day.

Now the facts have been dealt with , you are a pleb! there is not a fella on this planet that if had the dosh wouldn't buy a Rolls.

Well done hope , well done RR and well done good old British engineering !!!!!!!
  • + 1
 @Vince00: thanks pal for your homework
  • + 1
 @Cusalabanjura: Soooooo, Hope can still turn a profit, AND Rolls Royce Aero might turn a decent profit next year after restructuring AND paying off that $1billion dollar bribery settlement with the UK Government 8-)

(I use to be a RR tech....)
  • + 1
 Holy good vibes Batman! This is amazing!
  • + 1
 Anyone here owns one? No? I thought so.
  • + 1
 welcome to available options, Hope
  • + 1
 Could this be considered in an industry of excess, as a glimmer of Hope ?
  • + 1
 im guessing UK's ridiculous VAT still applies?
  • + 2
 VAT would be included, Not added on afterwards!
  • + 2
 The price quoted will include VAT. Not sure what's ridiculous about it?
  • + 0
 VAT, just as silly as US sale tax then
  • + 1
 @mattvanders: VAT is 2.5x US (california) sales tax
  • + 1
 @philalm: excellent
  • + 1
 @me2menow: As a North American, you don't pay VAT
  • + 1
 Ridiculous VAT, paying for all the things, helping fund all the different things, making UK great again
  • + 0
 @browner: I didnt realize Brits loved their taxes so much
  • + 4
 @me2menow: "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization."
  • + 0
 @kiksy: Thats a lot of civilization youve got there :p
  • + 3
 @me2menow: still trying to afford all that freedom that Americans claim they have :p
  • + 3
 @me2menow: It all helps pay towards a national health service...without any astronomical health insurance costs. Gladly pay my taxes for this and a bit more if needed
  • - 2
 Because they made a bike that looked rubbish with a ridiculous price. Of course they have to slash the price, or they wont sell a single one - then the whole effort would be a waste!
  • + 1
 Someone needs to make a Hope HB160 verision of the El Risitas guy now..
  • + 1
 Something doesn't feel right.
  • + 2
 Don’t stick it there
  • + 2
 Cool.
  • - 3
 It's awesome Hope manufactures these in the UK but the translation of.... "Over the Christmas break we spent time reassessing our Carbon bike program and finding ways to bring a UK manufactured bike to the market at a more affordable price" ....is.... "Over the Christmas break we spent some time looking at a whole bunch of frames that haven't moved at the original price so we've got to cut our losses and drop the price or these are just stalled inventory"
  • + 6
 Except as far as I can see they've been selling them as fast as they can make them.
  • + 4
 @CustardCountry: pretty much, every shop that has been selected to sell them can only sell 1 bike a month, if they sell more the customers must wait for the next shipment. Ive not heard of many shops keeping them on the shop floor for long
  • + 1
 @RaceReadyBraking: At 4-5 bikes a week, that isn't surprisng
  • + 1
 @RaceReadyBraking: only four bikes a month doesn't sound like a lot, but from what I've heard Intense didn't sell that many in the entire past year. I'm not bagging anyone out, I like intense and hope, but I think it points to a general market trend that people are not buying bikes. I guess there are a number of reasons for that, including but not limited to, boost and it's friends, and yt.
  • + 0
 People really pay this much for bikes? Got my 2017 nomad for 2800...
  • + 1
 The Bike looks dated
  • + 1
 Bargain!????
  • + 1
 Well done Hope.
  • + 0
 This means commoners will be able to afford them : (
  • + 4
 "I want to ride whatever Common People ride!" -Pulp
  • + 3
 I hate it that Ferrari doesn't sell their cars for $30k. Damn them!
  • + 1
 Stick sum bombers on it pure mental!
  • - 1
 Make it a GX, Yari and Delux affair and you can knock another 1k off at least.
  • + 7
 Why would you buy a Mclaren and put Camry level suspension and Corolla transmission on it?
  • + 0
 Is it just me or does that look like a Santa Cruz Nomad?
  • + 1
 HOPE it works!
  • - 2
 Slashed $2k off the price and STILL making bank. All you need to know about the cycling industry right there. Thanks. I guess?
  • + 1
 Fair play Hope!
  • + 0
 What’s the worst part about owning a Miata?
  • + 0
 Ahh someone figured out how to use Microsoft Excel! Well done.
  • - 1
 So they were ripping everyone off before. At the new Pryce they're just committing petty theft.
  • + 2
 How so? 1. People paid for it because they saw value. 2. They are REFUNDING the difference to those who bought at the higher price?
  • - 1
 Still a lot of money for a bike that's 60mm too long in the seat tube....
  • - 1
 It's just supply and demand
  • + 0
 You wanna explain that?
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: no demand = price is too high . Simple economics, what more explanation do you need. Love Hope's products btw
  • + 6
 @Beez177: This isn't a cookie cutter mass produced bike. I don't think they would have ever expected big demand, same as any ultra high end rig. This is more specialized a bike than 99% of anything else out there - It's what companys like Trek can only dream of being with house brand parts like Bontrager. While simple supply and demand economics certainly can apply in the situation, I don't think they lowered the price just because there was no one buying. And I don't think any sensible company can just slash a crap load of margin because sales are low - usually that sort of product gets called a dog and gets dropped. Or you end up devaluing your brand and take losses. Etc etc.

There is more going on here than "just supply and demand".

Hope makes some amazing products, right? And they really don't sell at that much more of a premium, despite likely having higher labour costs and overhead per product, I imagine. I think that takes work.

Hope did this bike, and it follows Hope tradition - it's premium. Through and through. I think they came up with a proof of concept. They were not over ambitious, and it took the time it took. If this was about making crazy cash and big margins, they would have came to market fast with a full size run and it would be outsourced nearly 100%. But they didn't, and given the work that went in, and the product that came out the other side, the original price was fair. However, it's not in line with Hopes philosophy, and the rest of the range. Not attainable. So, I imagine there is truth to the story. I imagine they sat back and figured out real efficiences and cost cutting measures and implemented to being the product in line with there true brand and market placement. I doubt it has a lot to do with selling or not selling a butt load. I.e., not a simple response to s low to non existent demand.

But...sure...it could be simple economics.
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: the problem is the bike is littered with non standard dimensions so you can't use anything other than what it comes with
  • + 2
 @chrismac70: The point of the bike is that you don't have to swap out components. If you want top, you are clearly not the target audience.
  • - 3
 Designed, Tested & Manufactured by Z Governator ~ BarnoldSchwarzenegger...Until now no bike company had hopes of passing his rigorous bike test!!!
  • + 1
 Jay U #RedButt ... That wasn't funny dude~ People are Neg Propping u left & Right!!! Get ur head outta ur #ANUSOL
  • - 2
 marketing strat. 'Hey, let's overprice then announce a rollback.' Slow clap...
  • - 2
 Bunch of commies
  • - 1
 Thanks, YT.
  • + 1
 I ride a Tues. You're welcome.
  • + 2
 @LoganKM1982: Me too. We started the price drop Galaxy- wide.
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