Hope HB160 - First Ride
Hope are finally ready to unleash the Beast from Barnoldswick to the public. Hope owners, Ian Weatherill and the late, Simon Sharp, had always dreamed of building their own bike. There are hundreds of different sketches and renderings at Hope HQ and prototype bikes, but it wasn't until now that they could finally construct a bike they wanted to ride, and more importantly to them, build almost entirely in-house.
The HB211 prototype was shown to the public, but the brand was always coy about whether or not it would make it into production, or if it was purely a showpiece. Now the bike is available to order, in limited quantities, and you can have it in any color you like, as long as it's raw carbon and black. In fact, the only option for customers is the color of anodized parts, the usual six Hope shades will be available, and finally Team Green will be available to buy on this complete bike only. Color aside, the bike is only available as one package (with some options on rotor size, stem length, chainring size), built with as many Hope parts as possible, and only from selected Hope dealers or direct from the factory. Available from September onwards, Hope will produce 500 bikes per year, so get in line. How much is the big question: £7,500 will get you a piece of hand laid history.
Hope HB160 Details
• Intended use: trail, enduro, mountain biking
• Carbon front triangle, alloy rear
• Travel: 160mm
• 27.5" wheels
• 130mm rear hub spacing
• Fox Suspension
• Weight: 14 kg (claimed)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Made in the UK
• Price: £7,500 / $9,663 USD approx.
• www.hopetech.com
• Intended use: trail, enduro, mountain biking
• Carbon front triangle, alloy rear
• Travel: 160mm
• 27.5" wheels
• 130mm rear hub spacing
• Fox Suspension
• Weight: 14 kg (claimed)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Made in the UK
• Price: £7,500 / $9,663 USD approx.
• www.hopetech.com
Details
Hmmm, weavy...
Hmmm, machiney...
Where to start on the details? It seems that every nook and cranny of the HB160 has been pondered over many a brew (that's tea in Yorkshire). Not simply selecting parts from a catalog and putting them in the right place, but thinking critically and making parts that better suit the needs of this bike. The front triangle is carbon, laid in Barnoldswick in return for British wages, safety standards and income directed into their local community. Cable routing is internal with 3D ports printed in-house. The water transfer graphics are added before the final matte finish lacquer is applied.
Carbon production is currently always associated with Asia. But Hope pointed out some good reasons UK manufacture is a smart move. Firstly, one of the major costs of a carbon bike is the mold. If your entire business revolves around machining bike parts, then this isn't an issue, though they did have to buy a machine bigger than anything they had previously to machine the huge £700 hunks of raw material into shape.
Secondly, the UK has a huge wealth of carbon expertise related to Formula One car construction, so finding an expert to help with the finer details of this black art was easy.
Production models will be badged the HB160. Does that mean there could be some other numbers following the capitalized letters in the future?
Cable routing ports are 3D printed in-house.
Hope's solution to creaky press-fit BB's uses a tube that threads together inside the frames bottom bracket shell for a solid fit. There is a custom chain guide that fits onto tabs above the bottom bracket shell, single chainring compatible only, of course.
Moving towards the rear wheel things get more interesting with the funky offset rear triangle; following somebody along a trail on the HB160 almost looks as if their bike has taken a side on impact from a car. The idea here is to reduce the width of the rear hub to 130mm for better clearance through Yorkshire gritstone, though the hub flanges sit a similar width apart to a boost hub. Space is saved between the frame and disc, and disc and spoke flanges, the spoke angle is also symmetrical which is touted as the ultimate solution for reliable wheel building. The hub axle is 17mm instead of 12mm, which is the size of Hope hub inner bearing races, the races sit directly on the axle, instead of on spacers on the axle.
I'm glad that a company finally sorted out the waste of space found at the rear axle of nearly every bike on the market. Instead of making it wider, you can just make it better.
The radial brake and mount are also Hope's own. Both are designed to sit perpendicular to the hub. This means that to change disc size riders can simply to add or remove spacers to raise or lower the caliper, instead of trying to find that obscure 'IS160 Front Old to PM203' mount from 2003 that you need on your modern bike to upgrade the rotor by 20mm. There are also Lego-like bosses on the mount that sit inside the bolt hole on the caliper to help keep things in line.
Confused and frustrated by numerous weird brake mounts across the industry, Hope arguably made it more confusing by creating another one themselves. At least this one sits perpendicular to the axle, so a simple spacer can be used to change the disc size instead of hunting through boxes of old mounts to get the right one.
The rear brake caliper is a custom version of the Tech4. The bolts are neatly placed through the main bulk of the caliper instead of on tabs.
Some people may complain that Hope are creating more standards, but this bike is a package deal only. If you care about the fact that you can't insert 'Component X' here or there, then you have missed the point of this bike.
The sections of the swingarm of the HB160 are now bonded together. This gives a cleaner finish and is also said to be a more accurate way to keep the bike aligned during manufacture.
Geometry
Hope said they wanted to stay on the conservative side of geometry rather than chasing the longer, lower, slacker, trend. That said, the numbers are still fairly progressive compared to a few 160mm travel machines that are lagging behind the times.
Build
There's one build kit to choose from, and of course, it's dominated by Hope. The suspension is from Fox via a 36 and Float X2, the dropper post is a Reverb from RockShox. The gear shifter, chain, and derailleur are XX1 11-speed from SRAM. The saddle is from Fabric and will be a custom Hope edition for the production bikes. Maxxis supply tires. Everything else is all from under one roof: grips, bar end plugs, handlebars, stem, top cap, headset and spacers, hubs, rims, cranks, seat clamp, chain guide, cranks, chainring, bottom bracket, hubs, cassette, and brakes – can any other brand boast this spread of product?
Hope hubs have gained a reputation as the benchmark over the years.
The Tech 35W rim is Hope's latest hoop. A 35mm internal width with a chunky cross-section. This isn't simply a narrow rim that has been stretched to a super thin limit.
The rims are the only component made in Taiwan, to Hope's specification, as finding rim manufacturers in the UK is, well, basically impossible.
Hope brakes are a separating subject, a love/hate affair with many riders.
The rear brake caliper is a custom version of the Tech4 caliper.
Of course, Hope specs their own Cranks with 30mm axle, direct mount chainring, and specific HB160 chain guide.
The Hope handlebar is the second carbon component to come out of the Barnoldswick factory.
Stem, top cap and spacers are all from Hope.
Suspension Design
Parts of the rear triangle of the HB160 are machined from aluminum, then bonded together with tubes.
Hope are open and admit that all suspension is a compromise, rather than marketing they have found a perfect solution. They went with a four bar, horst style link that provides fairly neutral characteristics all around. The only thing that isn't neutral is a lot of progression that should work well with coil shocks or large volume air shocks with minimal spacers inside.
We headed to the Serre Chevalier region of France where the HB's main engineer resides. Guillaume uses the epic alpine trails here as his local test bed, and what better place to get to grips with the bike.
The HB160 gets on with most tasks well, the geometry isn't fully new-school, and of course, me being me, would say I would like a degree or two added to the seat tube and a couple knocked of the headtube, as well as a few more millimeters in the reach and chainstay. But that's not the point. The geometry plays well with all types of riding and is comfortable enough for long days, climbing and descending nearly anything put in front of it.
Neutrality is key is key here as Hope themselves suggested was their goal. But after stating they wanted to stay on the conservative side of things, the HB160 is still more aggressive and capable than many bikes aimed at the same genre of riding.
The standout feature for me was the rear suspension; the back of the bike has amazing tracking characteristics across rough cambered ground and corners. The progressive suspension allows the pilot to take commanding and aggressive approach. Driving the HB into corners and through compressions is superb, and picking up speed is natural as the chassis spurs onwards.
We are looking forward to getting some more time on an HB160 on our regular test tracks, a bike that needs to be lined up against some potential rivals.
Pinkbike's Take:
 | The HB160 is more than a bike. It's for a collector, a connoisseur, an enthusiast that wants a piece of history. It's born from working man's heart, soul, art, and life work. More importantly than the ride, it's a joy to possess, admire, and show to your friends, and eventually your grandchildren when it's hanging on a wall, pride of place. |
About the Reviewer
Stats: • Age: 31 • Height: 6'1” • Ape Index: +4" • Weight: 75kg • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None • Instagram: astonator
Paul Aston is a racer and dirt-jumper at heart. Previously adding to the list of non-qualifiers at World Cup DH events, he attacked enduro before it was fashionable, then realized he was old and achy. From the UK, but often found residing in mainland Europe.
Stats: • Age: 31 • Height: 6'1” • Ape Index: +4" • Weight: 75kg • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None • Instagram: astonator
Paul Aston is a racer and dirt-jumper at heart. Previously adding to the list of non-qualifiers at World Cup DH events, he attacked enduro before it was fashionable, then realized he was old and achy. From the UK, but often found residing in mainland Europe.
Author Info:
Must Read This Week
"Confused and frustrated by numerous weird brake mounts across the industry, Hope arguably made it more confusing by creating another one themselves."
Second, Brands like Cannondale make bikes for the masses. So presumably, you'd think they'd spec components that would be readily available to the masses (i.e. using "standards" aftermarket component manufacturers can use, as well) and easily fixed/upgraded should the buyer need/want. When they don't do that, flaming rightfully ensues.
Hope clearly market this bike as a package deal with their own components using "better" designs, and are not forcing other brands to use their hub spacing (cough*boost*cough*trek*cough). I think it's awesome. Almost total integration of components on a bike designed by said *component* manufacturer. Sounds and looks like a home run to me.
And here you go...
I actually like what they've done with the rear hub and brake mount, the only real problem being that they've taken a totally different (but more efficient) route to the existing standards, so we'll not see any of those improvements in the mainstream any time soon, without SRAM, Trek and everyone else having to admit that they've got it wrong.
I assume thats what he meant.
To be honest, I did wonder if Hope could have done it with 135mm spacing, but then you'd still only be compatible with 135x9mm QR hubs, which have already been made obsolete by 12x142mm and now 148mm is replacing that. If they'd have made the rear 148mm though, the asymmetric end would probably push the chainstay right into the driveside crank, but without the asymmetry, you couldn't have the zero dish on a standard 148mm hub. The only solution was to go narrower.
To be honest though, the 135mm hub/6mm offset rear end on my old demo 8 doesn't have great heel clearance on the drive side, so narrower is better. Apart from that, offset rear ends make plenty of sense.
If you look at the difference between the flange spacing and how that affects spoke lengths between 142mm and 148mm spacing, Boost is an absolute hoax!! Maybe it is better for plus bikes but for a regular 27.5/29er I can't see the benefit. I think Pivot's approach of using a 157 rear end and 83mm bottom bracket is better though, and didn't introduce another new standard.
I suppose what it comes down to then is that Hope saw there are a lot of proprietary hub setups out there already, decided they could do it better and didn't worry too much about the "new standard" thing because they're supplying all the kit themselves, selling in small numbers and other people are already doing it.
I know that zero dish/ equal spoke tension is supposed to make the strongest wheels and that, from that point of view, Boost doesn't really fix anything. American Classic have done their own version of Boost, which tries to get zero dish by pushing out the disk-side flange 6mm, instead of widening symmetrically and that seems like a good idea.
I'm actually a big Hope fan and have a bunch of hope stuff on my bikes. Haven't run their brakes since I had a set of the original 4 pots in the early 2000s though! Didn't get on with them, but would like to try a set of their modern ones.
Here here!
Granted it doesn't account for wasted space but I may make better use of the space in boost setups?
Anyone bothered to do more research than me?
the difference, compared to a "normal" 142 hub is huge ;-)
I had a giant DH comp with an offset rear end around 2003 and then went to a 2005 Demo 8 which also had an offset rear end.
Didn't know Spec had done it earlier on the Big hit.
Some one with a fair bit of disposable income will buy it and then tell everyone how much better it is than anything else they've owned (and they've owned it all).
The lenses are another story.
You can't get away with that sort of treatment in Europe.
So no, they arent charging you less.
"Our engineers discovered that with our new "Svelte" (tm) hub spacing, we could increase stiffness blah blah blah and save blah blah while still blah blah.
If you think I have time to read the whole article you sorely mistaken. :-)
Yeah... and even more stuff...
Ritchey? You know... Tom Ritchey?
Extralite?
FRM?
Campagnolo?
Shimano?
White industries?
Paul?
E-13?
Etc etc etc
Or the real WTB from the 80's to mid 90's, before an hired lawyer fired the founders -that is the "rumor"- and turned the company from producing diamonds to producing plastic? Yeah the old WTB stuff... top of the top.
Extralite
FRM
White industries
Paul
Also, none of them have a full carbon production line in-house to produce their own frame either, parts maybe, but not a full frame and growing componentry line.
Hope cannot be compared to any other company in the industry - There are others companies that own a frame and component brand (Trek with Bontranger) but nobody does it all in-house in their country of origin.
Also they've really gone for it with this bike. You can argue that the frame itself isn't that radical, and debate new standards, but it took some guts to undertake a project like this. It's a proper endeavour.
As for supporting better employee treatment, I'm all for that. Previous US administrations have tended to lean on trade partners like China to improve their worker protections - but I generally believe that the best thing for worker treatment in such countries is to actually employ their workers.
Long story short, there are a tremendous number of variables at play. Someone who applies mathematics to economic models would be the real person to ask these questions to, but simple answers like yours and mine are probably not even close to the whole truth. The world is too complicated for that.
@elbandido77: All I was saying is that there is a strong protectionist bent over there, like there is here. I have Hope hubs on my bike and I like them. No hate for the Hope implied.
But hey, our specialities are not in economics. I could be (and usually am) wrong.
Why no integrated dropper seatpost like that thing in Liteville bikes? The current dropper is still kind of an afterthought designed to fit frames originally designed for rigid seatposts. Now that they assemble it with a dropper anyway, better get it integrated right away.
The current (conventional) PM brake calipers are designed so that when braking, they push against their mounts. The bolts are loaded by a bit of shear, but not much. These new mounts are designed for the rider who does happen to swap rotors every now and then, but isn't organized enough to store them together. That's a nice concept. But the consequence is that the bolts are now subject to pure shear. The Lego type bosses may help some but eventually the 8.8 quality steel bolt is much stronger and fatigue resistant than the machined aluminium used. And it is getting much worse when you're stacking spacers to go from 160mm up to 203 (or whatever their maximum is). Such a tall tower will also subject them to bending. Granted bolts were also subject to shear with the IS2000 type brake mount, but you'd never get such a tall stack of spacers. So for a next iteration I can imagine they'd use some stepped interface so that the caliper has something to rest against.
That said, I don't think buyers of these bikes will have to be too worried about obsolesce. If you really need a new hub, a replacement brake caliper or just spacers, they'll probably machine some for you.
As a guy who rides and races a lot, component compability and availability is my main concern when buying a new bike/frame.
Special rear brake, rear hub and chainguide are major things, yet still components that can break.
What i like this bike, is solution to pressfit bb and aluminium chainstays. Carbon driveside cs is actually not so good, how matter how good you try to protect it chain will still beat it.
www.facebook.com/hopetech/videos/2125725794135908
Not seriously serious. But I was hoping (ahem) at the time that they would buy marz.
Am I the only one that thinks this is a bit plain jane?
The bottom bracket... to solve the creaminess of a pressfit bottom bracket, they've pressed it into a threaded shell...
So, why don't they just use a threaded bottom bracket?
I may be stupid here as is very common for myself, but it made me wonder ????????♂️????
i want a new 2018 nomad btw...anyone ridden both this years and last? thoughts?
i would need a 70mm stem to get the reach i want.
Design a press-fit (and proprietary solution) on your new bike.
Makes sense to me.
"Rather than jump blindly onto the “lower, longer, slacker” bandwagon, Hope took a long hard look at what they ride and how they like to ride it, and ended up with quite conservative numbers when it comes to reach and overall length of the bike. Favoring a lively, maneuverable, and comfortable bike that is as much fun to ride on tight switchbacks as it is on the open trail, the HB.160 wasn’t intended to be a pure race machine (although it has already proven itself on the race track with a couple of UK National Championships and some impressive EWS stage results to its name)."
It's certainly going to be a huge increase in turnover for Hope and they must be on the verge of attracting huge investment interests now like intense / Santa Cruz - the question is would they ever sell out?
Fantastic bike and achievement from Hope though, they are a world one off that's for sure.
I personally prefer a different geo but as stated I'm not a potential customer, I also think that some ultra long / slack bikes are too much, I know of someone who sold a Geometron because it was simply too much, he is now rather happy on a mainstream geo bike.
The shortness in reach is pretty much the only off-trend thing in the geo, since it's around 20mm shorter than average.
enduro-mtb.com/en/mtb-geometry-new-normal
In this case though, I was really just replying to @Kimbers , pointing out that the geometry is actually pretty much on average for the current crop of enduro bikes, although it is a bit shorter in reach.
There do look to be a lot of interesting geometry experiments coming up though; maybe they'll remember the tall guys this time
This is made in the UK dripping in quality Hope components and will come with legendary Hope support, if anything it's a bargain.
Way too expensive for me but so is a Ferrari, doesn't mean it's wrong to make it because we can't afford it - plenty of options out there for us still.
Hope just have to review their prices and maybe diversify and hope that people buy their rigs and not e-bikes for the same price. But maybe they have enough fans. Good luck to them.
mrblackmorescorner.blogspot.com.es/2017/09/hope-hb160-2017-vs-robotbike-r160-2016.html
...yes please, i want one!
yes, you're right.
but (Nope)∞
Will stick with my cheap old mega TR frame thanks.
It does look nicer than my Tr though.
Yet ANOTHER hub size? Yeah, Hope can SUCK IT!
Not interested.
Watch the video and gain some perspective - they said it cost half a million to get to this stage.
Plenty of bikes out there for you if you think this is too spendy (I do, but I actually think it's very good value compared to Chinese intense / Yeti / Santa Cruz)
It looks like Hope really thought these new standards through but I think we all know those will either not be picked up by other manufacturers or be phased out shortly if they are.
That said I've always been a big hope fan boy so perhaps my judgement is clouded haha
Where did you get that it is made in China? Are you on medication?
If any of the big boys built this bike, it would be such a flame fest in these comments. Proprietary everything. Press-fit BB ("Their own take" no, it is what praxxis and wheels have been doing for ages), boring geometry. Can't run a different brake set, can't run a different crankset, can't run a different wheelset.
They can dress it up however they want, end of the day its a short bike with old geo. Fact of the matter is, this bike took too long to build and geometry moved on. Yawn indeed.